Friday, January 20, 2006

Various matters

A few miscellaneous items of interest:

(1) Following up on the post yesterday about George and Kellyanne Conway, there are two matters to note:

(a) Commenter Sully pointed to this passage from page 182 of David Brock’s book Blinded by the Right:

For the next few years, Conway ... spoke to me about little else but Clinton’s rumored sexual habits, and the supposed size and shape of his genitalia. On some level, Conway's hatred of Clinton seemed attributable to raw jealousy.

For the few people who e-mailed to opine that my post about the Conways was too aggressive or personal, please give that some thought. There are lots of things that probably explain George Conway’s obsession with this particular genitalia matter, but the important point is that the assaults and attacks engaged in by people like him throughout the 1990s degraded our political discourse in unprecedented ways.

(b) Speaking of which, George’s wife, Kellyanne, appeared on television last night with Joe Scarborough and this is what she did:

I just saw [MSNBC's] Joe Scarborough with airhead pollster Kellyanne Fitzpatrick go on and on about how "Democratic Senators" have been taking their cues from Bin Laden or vice versa and both had been persecuting our Commander-in-Chief.

Accusing Bush opponents of treason and subversiveness -- or working in tandem with Osama bin Laden -- is, in a real sense, a continuation of the sleazy Republican tactics of the 1990s. Nobody plays more games with matters of national security and terrorism than Bush followers, for whom those issues are little more than instruments to be used for domestic political gain.

UPDATE: Crooks & Liars has the (unpleasant-to-watch) video of Kellyanne comparing "the President's detractors" to Osama bin Laden.

(2) There is a glaring double standard for what is acceptable for political rhetoric in this country. Anything other than the most reverent and restrained criticism of George Bush is strongly condemned by the establishment media, and yet the most extreme types of accusations (treason, working with Osama, etc.) are endorsed and therefore prevalent against the President’s opponents.

Along these lines, Digby details two separate, quite illustrative episodes involving the odious Chris Matthews – (a) his remarks that bin Laden in his new video "sounds like Michael Moore"; and (b) some truly repulsive homophobic banter between Matthews and faux-cowboy Don Imus in which they guffaw while referring to "Bare-backing Mountain" and "Fudgepack Mountain." Digby contrasts that banter with the truly unbelievable panting of Matthews, along with G. Gordon Liddy, over George Bush’s aircraft-carrier strutting.

Peter Daou is demanding an apology from Chris Matthews for his equating Michael Moore to Osama bin Laden, and is urging everyone in the blogosphere to join and demand that Matthews apologize. Digby in the post linked above provides the contact information for Matthews. And a new website has been created to leave your comments for Chris Matthews regarding his behavior.

(3) Armando has an excellent post lamenting the inability and/or refusal of certain timid Democratic types to clearly articulate the real dangers posed by the Bush Administration. I really believe that this is one of the central problems in mounting a real challenge to the excesses of this Administration – that even so many Democrats have been bullied for so long that they are afraid of standing up in any real way to the Administration, because they doubt their ability to persuade Americans of their views.

As a result, they dribble out entirely half-hearted and vague protests which are so incoherent that they are incapable of letting anyone even know what their position is, let alone persuading anyone of that position. They then point to the fact that Americans don’t agree with these (tepidly expressed) protests as a reason not to pursue them more aggressively. It’s a vicious, self-defeating cycle which has been George Bush’s best friend.

(4) Jane Hamsher has done some superb blogging the past few days regarding The Washington Post’s Ombudsman Deborah Howell and Howell's flatly false statement about the Abramoff scandal. This episode is a real case study in how blogging can have a meaningful impact on how events are reported. Adding to Jane’s tenacity were Atrios and John at Crooks & Liars, among others, and as a result, Howell was forced by the unrelenting tidal wave of protests into a reluctant retraction, and the Post was so upset by the intensity of the protests that they actually eliminated their Comments Section on their blogs.

The important point is that they felt the wrath of readers as a result of their inaccurate reporting – whereby they simply ingested and then disseminated GOP talking points that were false – and this episode can only make them more careful in the future.

(5) Both Digby and Sean-Paul Kelley have good posts regarding mistakes they believe Democrats are making in talking about the Abramaoff scandal.

(6) The Heretik’s takes on pretty much every issue are always unique and entertainingly expressed. I highly recommend this post regarding the Administration’s rhetoric in defense of its illegal eavesdropping.

(7) I have a new post from last night up at C&L regarding the way in which this Administration has destroyed U.S. credibility by a steady stream of statements which have, time and again, turned out to be false. For the first time in my lifetime, many people immediately disregard -- not subject to scepticism, but outright disregard -- statements of purported fact which they hear from the Government. Many Americans generally, as well as our traditional allies, have arrived at the sad and counter-productive point where they simply don’t trust what the Administration says. Given the history of its statements and conduct (which, regardless of the reason why, have proven over and over to be inaccurate), any rational person would do the same.

32 comments:

  1. Anonymous4:09 PM

    The double standard makes the mind reel. But I don't know what's more frustrating, the sheer hypocrisy of the republicans for perpetuating it, or the wallflower complacency of the democrats for accepting it. battered wife syndrome, indeed.

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  2. Anonymous4:30 PM

    Good round-up. Gives me some good weekend reading. I'd like to see more coordaintion and work between bloggers to start targeting people and having a real impact.

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  3. He described the terrorists in Iraq who are trying to kill our troops as "freedom fighters" and likened them unto the Minute Men.

    George Bush did the same thing. After spending two years claiming that we were fighting the "terrorists" in Iraq, he finally admitted a couple months ago that, in actuality, the vast, vast majority of the people we are fighting in Iraq were not terrorists but nationalists who were fighting against the occupation. That was Moore's point.

    He formulated it poorly, but Moore's description of the motives of the Iraqis we are fighting is infinitely more accurate than the propaganda cartoons that stremed forth from the Administration about how we are fighting the "terrorists" there and, therefore, to oppose the war in Iraq is to favor surrendering to the "terrorists."

    That's nuts, and to compare his rhetoric w/ bin Laden's is not a stretch.

    The defining characteristic of Osama bin Laden's rhetoric is that he threatens the slaughter of thousands of innocent civilians. That's what makes him Osama bin Laden. You actually think that Michael Moore should be compared to him?

    Some day, someone will have to explain to me why it is that comparing George Bush with Adolph Hilter (which, for the record, I don't do) is the unmistakable mark of a fringe lunatic, but equating Michael Moore (or Howard Dean, or Jimmy Carter) with Osama bin Laden is not only perfectly reasonable but is even something which journalists should be free to do.

    Sounds like the double standard I was talking about.

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  4. Anonymous5:34 PM

    Michael Moore opposed the invasion of Afghanistan. Here is Christopher Hitchens on the piece of excrement known as Michael Moore:

    In late 2002, almost a year after the al-Qaida assault on American society, I had an onstage debate with Michael Moore at the Telluride Film Festival. In the course of this exchange, he stated his view that Osama Bin Laden should be considered innocent until proven guilty. This was, he said, the American way. The intervention in Afghanistan, he maintained, had been at least to that extent unjustified.

    Do read the whole Hitch thing; the sickness and depravity of Michael Moore forecloses the need for anyone to apologize to him about any political attacks.

    Finally, George Bush never called any people killing our troops "Minute Men." To do so is inescapably to indicate moral approval of them. That's what Moore did, notwithstanding your defense and claim to know "his point."

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  5. Anonymous6:05 PM

    Mr Greenwald is undoubtedly more capable of defending his position than I, yet I feel compelled to respond to Hypatia. I supported our invasion of Afghanistan. But to argue that opposing that action is comparable to killing 3,000 innocent civilians is is ridiculous. Sadly, I have to agree that defending Michael Moore will not get us a lot of votes, but that does not mean it is not the right thing to do.

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  6. Anonymous6:09 PM

    It would be helpful if tomaig would share with us the name of the nationally televised 'journalist' who compared Bush to Hitler.

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  7. Anonymous6:35 PM

    One final, but important, voice to add to the roundup. Bob Somerby at the Daily Howler urges everyone to dig below all of these symptoms to find the root causes. What exactly is causing reporters to mindlessly repeat these far-right talking points without any check? You wouldn't think that the Washington Post would be consciously buying into it, but what is going on? For that matter, Brad deLong has a good post today on his dealings with the Post and its hidden agenda. We have a long way to go before we can have a civil discourse on politics in the media.

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  8. Dems need a new generation of "consultants". Get rid of the guys who told Kerry not to respond to the SwiftBoaters and not to demand a recount in Ohio. We don't need any more silence. We need strong comebacks and LEADERSHIP.

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  9. Anonymous7:00 PM

    Finally, George Bush never called any people killing our troops "Minute Men." To do so is inescapably to indicate moral approval of them.

    I only want to give my approval to moral behavior.

    I guess any Iraqi who kills an American is immoral, correct?

    And vice versa? Why or why not?

    Not that I give a damn about MM.

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  10. while comparing GWB to Hitler, or the alleged-by-lying- actions of American troops to the worst excesses of the worst regimes of the 20th century is just a kind of ho-hum, no big deal, we're speaking truth to power!

    I don't know many people who would approve if Chris Matthews or similar journalists went on television and started saying that George Bush's speeches sound a lot like Adolph Hitler's. But we'll never know, since that would never happen, which is the whole point.

    And the other point here is that although this invective is being directed at Michael Moore, he's just used as an acceptable proxy to say this about Bush opponents and war opponents generally. It's all part of the GOP's message that if you oppose George Bush or the war, then you're on the side of Al Qaeda. That Chris Matthews is promoting that view - by attacking Michael Moore, the symbol for Bush opponents - is no better than if he went on television and started comparing Bush's speeches to Hitler. The only difference is, his career would be instantaneously destroyed if he did the latter, but he does the former and nobody bats an eye.

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  11. Anonymous7:34 PM

    But to argue that opposing that action is comparable to killing 3,000 innocent civilians is is ridiculous.

    That wasn't the point of the comparison; Osama and other jihadists loved Fahrenhiet 9/11, because it depicts Bush's reasons for routing the Taliban as driven by oil pipelines, the Carlysle Group, & etc. (Read the whole Hitchens article, please.) The film played and was well-received in Tehran, for those reasons.

    Michael Moore could be Osama's publicist in opposing the removal of his Taliban support network, and no one owes Moore an apology.

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  12. Isn't it a sad or even tragic state of affairs when someone is villified for believing that someone should be presumed innocent until proven guilty, regardless of who it is or what they allegedly have done? Isn't that what our entire judicial system is based upon? Isn't that a standard by which all judicial systems should be judged?

    Am I hearing from people on the "right" that this concept should apply only under certain circumstances? Listen, 9/11/01 was a terrible day on which unthinkable crimes were committed. But the breadth and depth of those crimes doesn't mean that we suspend jurisprudence just to satisfy our revenge. That is wrong! It's also against the law!

    The Bush administration continues to trot out its old mantra about "bringing the terrorists to justice." There's been no justice, unless one's definition of justice is no evidence, no charges, no lawyer, no judge, no jury, no access to family, etc. This is insanity. And the government has turned criminal acts into a perverted "war" in order to suit its own selfish purposes. Criminals are now terrorists. Laws are not followed. The military is used for law enforcement.

    It's time to see the forest through the trees, people. Wake up. This is our nation's very essence at stake here. If we allow that to be compromised, then we don't deserve freedom. Ben Franklin, one of our original patriots, said as much over 200 years ago. The premise hasn't changed even if the times and the enemies have.

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  13. Anonymous7:50 PM

    That Chris Matthews is promoting that view - by attacking Michael Moore, the symbol for Bush opponents - is no better than if he went on television and started comparing Bush's speeches to Hitler.

    That's ridiculous.

    Michael Moore is not just some Democrat, anymore than Julius Rosenberg was. He is an endless propaganda machine whose film was wildly popular with Islamic jihadists precisely because it depicted as wholly venal and corrupt the United States' reasons for the war in Afghanistan.

    Democrats make a martyr of Moore at their great political peril. Matthews will only benefit from any attempt to make him apologize to Michael Moore. Karl Rove wants you to carry on, tho.

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  14. Anonymous8:25 PM


    He is an endless propaganda machine whose film was wildly popular with Islamic jihadists...


    Do you have any evidence for this assertion?

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  15. Anonymous8:42 PM

    anon asks:
    Do you have any evidence for this assertion?


    Sure, aside from that Iran allowed the film into the country -- in case you are unaware, they censor everything out that they do not like -- and the authorities there loved it, there is this:
    Fahrenheit 9/11 gets help offer from Hezbollah from that bastion of Bush worship, The Guardian.

    But Moore helped the Katrina victims! Republicans everywhere are hoping the Democrats run with that.

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  16. Anonymous10:00 PM

    If China invaded and occupied America, and Americans fought back, would they be terrorists or freedom fighters and minute men?

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  17. Anonymous10:06 PM

    I asked if you had any evidence for your assertion and you provided some. I will grant you that.

    On the other hand, the evidence amounts to this line in the Guardian:

    "According to Screen International, the UAE-based distributor Front Row Entertainment has been contacted by organisations related to the Hezbollah in Lebanon with offers of help."

    Of course, the phase "related to" means close to nothing. For all we know the Lebanese Foreign Film Association might be judged as "related to Hezbollah".

    And from this you concluded that the
    "film was wildly popular with Islamic jihadists".

    And from there to Michael Moore = OBL.

    I understand why you don't like MM. But I join some others here in thinking that you a getting a bit carried away on this judgment.

    You may be correct, however, that trying to defend him is a losing political strategy.

    -Devoman

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  18. Anonymous11:28 PM

    Am I totally wrong in suspecting that Hypatia is actually one of the Conways?

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  19. Anonymous12:09 AM

    hypatia:
    In the summer of 2004, Fahrenheit 9/11 was well received in Lexington MA in a theatre just 200 yards from the Minuteman statue and the Lexington Battle Green. So, what's your point? [shouldn't ask; I think I can guess]
    This film is admittedly a hyperbolic political statement directed at the folly of Bush's adventure in Iraq, and the lies that were foisted on this country to justify it. As propaganda it is not even in the same league as the unrelenting dissimulation that we've had from this administration in a steady stream since 2001. MM's propaganda caused nobody's death. Fault him for his extreme position Re: Afganistan, but admit that Bush's half-assed attempt to pursue OBL is the reason we're still having these stupid arguments. He really screwed up.

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  20. Anonymous1:23 AM

    Mr. Greenwald,

    I think your blog is one of the best on the internet today. Thank you for the flawless arguments, reserved tone, and depth of knowledge. Thank you for your work.

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  21. Dear, Dear Glenn,

    Asking one peice of inexcusable slime to apologize is like asking the Bush administration to apologize for a particular dead, innocent Iraqi.

    There are maybe thirty new, dead, innocent Iraqis each day. The bodies are piling up faster than anyone is counting. Waving around the dead hand of one of them, demanding an explanation... it's too sad.

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  22. One might think it is excessive to compare a media lie of an overpaid mouthpeice to a dead Iraqi, but the unquestioning repetition by those same millionaire blowhards was an essential component in this war based on lies, which did result in the deaths of those same innocent Iraqis.

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  23. Anonymous3:15 AM

    There is a glaring double standard for what is acceptable for political rhetoric in this country. Anything other than the most reverent and restrained criticism of George Bush is strongly condemned by the establishment media, and yet the most extreme types of accusations (treason, working with Osama, etc.) are endorsed and therefore prevalent against the President’s opponents.

    Glenn.. Ive never heard it better said.. thats the whole, entire issue... right there...

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  24. Anonymous12:10 PM

    Just Ridiculous asks: Am I totally wrong in suspecting that Hypatia is actually one of the Conways?


    Given that (a) I've been commenting here nearly since the inception of the blog, and (b) Glenn once asked me to assist him in putting together one of his posts -- entailing an email exchange in which my actual identity is evident -- yes, you would be totally wrong.

    Funny all this, how denying the need to apologize to a lying propagandist like Michael Moore -- who opposed the war in Afghanistan -- inspires many on the left to assume the worst about one, and causes them to defend the repugnant Michael Moore. As I've said repeatedly, the RNC wants y'all to run with just such a theme.

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  25. Anonymous1:11 PM

    "Funny all this, how denying the need to apologize to a lying propagandist like Michael Moore -- who opposed the war in Afghanistan -- inspires many on the left to assume the worst about one, and causes them to defend the repugnant Michael Moore."

    1. Just saying he is a liar does not make it true.
    2. How is attaching epithets such as "the repugnant" not propaganda in and of itself.

    While I sometimes wish Mr. Moore would shut up or be more cognizant of where the line between acceptable and unacceptable is drawn, he has always been an advocate for the common American, and as such he has been vilified by the right because he has been successful in punching holes in their bubbles. Throughout his career he has been subjected to direct and sometimes unwarranted personal attacks from those who find him to be a gadfly in their ointment.

    Regardless of his occasional over-the-top hyperbole, many of those who assail him do not seem to know much about him. While I am sometimes amazed at how far he will go to make a point, I remain convinced that he is one of the good guys, and while I won't defend everything he says, I'll defend the man to my last syllable.

    After all, in the world of propagandists, he's an independent filmmaker, and not, for example, the Official White House Spokesperson, who of course, I'm sure, has never declined to tell the truth when "press"-ed.

    If anyone should be held accountable for spreading misinformation, it's those who tax us, pen (and interpret) laws to govern us, and who are charged for looking out for the well-being of the nation.

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  26. Anonymous2:11 PM

    1. Just saying he is a liar does not make it true.
    2. How is attaching epithets such as "the repugnant" not propaganda in and of itself.


    Injured servicemen appearing in his film and at least one mother of a deceased soldier, have called him a liar -- the mother says he is a "maggot." I'll search out links for all that, if you like.

    The Yahoo news story about Fahrenheit opening in Tehran has expired, but I found it excerpted at several web sites, all emphasis mine:

    -------------------------

    TEHRAN (AFP) - Cinemagoers in the Iranian capital were given their first glimpse of ‘Fahrenheit 9/11’ this week, but appeared to enjoy more the rare chance to watch an American movie than its assault on their regime’s arch foe George W. Bush.

    Michael Moore’s Bush-bashing polemic may have cruised through Iran’s unforgiving censors thanks to its indictment of US policy, but the premiere of the film also had the side effect of making some viewers relate the same questioning to their own state of affairs.

    “The authorities obviously gave the film the green light for political reasons, in that anything against the United States must be good,” quipped one of the hundreds of mainly young people who flocked to Tuesday night’s opening screening.

    The prize-winning documentary has been allowed out on release here to coincide with the third anniversary of the September 11, 2001 attacks in the United States — which kicked off a chain of events that has seen Iran surrounded by US troops and lumped into an “axis of evil”.

    “They are showing this film to erase from our minds the idea that America is the great saviour,” said Hirad Harandian, another cinemagoer at the uptown Farhang cinema.

    -------------------------

    Yup, anon, Michael Moore is just the fellow you should defend to your last breath, if you want to do the GOP a huge favor. The man loved in Tehran and who almost uniquely makes it past their censors, all because they find useful Moore's propagandistic indictments of the United States. The same Tehran that we are now all fretting over about its acquisition of nuclear weapons.

    Please, do carry on.

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  27. Anonymous2:28 PM

    Excerpt from a Washington Times story:

    The family of U.S. Air Force Maj. Gregory Stone was shocked to learn that video footage of the major’s Arlington National Cemetery burial was included by Michael Moore in his movie “Fahrenheit 9/11.”

    Maj. Stone was killed in March 2003 by a grenade that officials said was thrown into his tent by Sgt. Hasan K. Akbar, who is on trial for murder.

    “It’s been a big shock, and we are not very happy about it, to say the least,” Kandi Gallagher, Maj. Stone’s aunt and family spokeswoman, tells Washington Times reporter Audrey Hudson.

    “We are furious that Greg was in that casket and cannot defend himself, and my sister, Greg’s mother, is just beside herself,” Miss Gallagher said. “She is furious. She called him a ‘maggot that eats off the dead.’ “

    The movie, described by critics as political propaganda during an election year, shows video footage of the funeral and Maj. Stone’s fiancee, Tammie Eslinger, kissing her hand and placing it on his coffin.

    The family does not know how Mr. Moore obtained the video, and Miss Gallagher said they did not give permission and are considering legal recourse....

    “Michael Moore would have a hard time asking our family for a glass of water if he were thirsty."


    Yes, by all means, lobby for Chris Matthews to apologize to this "maggot."

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  28. Injured servicemen appearing in his film and at least one mother of a deceased soldier, have called him a liar -- the mother says he is a "maggot."

    People call Bush a liar and a maggot as well, so I guess by that "reasoning" he is, too.

    Yes, by all means, lobby for Chris Matthews to apologize to this "maggot."

    The point isn't to induce an apology for Michael Moore personally. Moore is only used as a stand-in for anyone who criticizes Bush on his terrorism and war policies. Joe Scarborough and countless Fox commentators are saying the same thing -- not not just about Moore but about "Democrats" generally - that they sound like bin Laden, that bin Laden adopted their talking points in his speech.

    It's all part of the same smear as when they ran around in the days before the election saying that bin Laden in his new video was endorsing John Kerry and had adopted Kerry's talking points.

    Trying to crush dissent by equating anyone who opposes George Bush to commiting treason or supporting bin Laden is infinitely worse - and more un-American - than all of the sins you can assert that Michael Moore has committed.

    Between someone who is overly zealous in his criticism of a revered President and someone who equates criticism of a President with treason, it's not hard for me to pick which is worse.

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  29. Anonymous3:44 PM


    Between someone who is overly zealous in his criticism of a revered President and someone who equates criticism of a President with treason, it's not hard for me to pick which is worse.


    (banging head against wall)

    MM is not merely "overly zealous." He is an anti-American propagandist who is loved in Tehran, and despised by the injured soldiers appearing in his film, as well as by the family of the soldier whose funeral he showed in his garbage.

    Nor is this an argument over which is worse: MM, or equating all Democrats as treasonous traitors. Coulter has been doing the latter for some time now, and it is, of course, BS.

    But really, people! I've spent a lot of time at civil sites in which the left and right engage each other, and not infrequently someone comes along wanting to tag all opponents of George Bush w/ Michael Moore's antics and views. Inelligent and reasonable Bush critics rightly reject all such ploys to hold them accountable for the lunacy of MM, sometimes pointing out that that is as reasonable as holding all Bush supporters responsible for everything that issues from the mouth of Pat Robertson.

    A campign to defend the dignity and honor of MM is sheer folly. What it will do is create a superb opportunity for Hannity, Matthews, O'Reilly and all kinds of bloggers to turn the political conversation away from, say, the NSA warrantless surveillance issue, and toward, say, interviews with a mother who is outraged at Moore's use of her son's funeral. To discuss how Moore's film was received in Tehran, and how Moore thinks invading Afghanistan was wrong and that Osama is not yet known to be "guilty." To, in other words, depict opposition to Bush as an embrace of Michael Moore -- something many Bush critics have vigrously fought to prevent.

    I can't think of a more stupid thing for Bush critics to do, than lobby for an apology to Michael Moore. I really can't.

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  30. Hypatia is a liar.

    Filmmakers in Iran are making many films.

    It is absurd, a lie, and totally unfounded to say, as Hyaptia does, that "they Iran] censor everything out that they do not like."

    Not only is this not true, but the footage from Iran does not, inherently, include the voiceover. The final film product was unavailable for review by Iran's censors when the footage was shot.

    You've probably never seen a movie starring the Kurds and the Kurdish mountains. The movie "Blackboards" (which I got to see because it aired on the SunDance channel) is amazingly eye-opening.

    Hypatia, everything I've seen you type suggests, to me, that you are a lying, hatemonger, if not warmonger.

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  31. Hypatia, a Senator of the United States, Carl Schurz, said

    "My country, right or wrong. When right, keep it right, When wrong, set it right."

    By comparison, Decatur was a hack.

    And I don't know what you are.

    Michael Moore is a patriot who is trying to change the tack of his country. What are you? I can't tell.

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  32. Anonymous8:24 PM

    Filmmakers in Iran are making many films.

    Oh. My. God.

    In the zone of not getting it, you are in deep. Did you know that films were made in the Soviet Union, and Nazi Germany, as well?

    Michael Moore is a patriot who is trying to change the tack of his country.

    Yes, that's exactly how the Democrats should sell themselves, as patriots just like Michael Moore.

    Good luck with that.

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