I really encourage everyone to listen to the full interview which Sen. Russ Feingold gave today with George Stephanopolous on ABC's This Week, in which Feingold announced that he was introducing a Resolution to censure George Bush for breaking the law with his warrantless eavesdropping program aimed at Americans. Crooks & Liars has the video of the full interview here. The full transcript of the interview is here.
As you listen to it, just imagine where this scandal would be if Democrats had simply come out from the beginning and taken a strong stand in defense of the rule of law and our constitutional principles, instead of listening to those worthless, fear-driven Beltway consultants who -- as Feingold pointed out -- counseled that Democrats should just allow Bush to break the law because it was too risky politically to oppose it.
All that was necessary from the beginning was to make three very simple and clear points, just as Feingold made them today:
(1) We all want eavesdropping on Al Qaeda and the law allows that;
(2) The problem isn't that the President eavesdropped; it's that he did it in a way that broke the law by eavesdropping without judicial oversight and approval, which Americans required in 1978 in order to prevent abuse of the eavesdropping power; and,
(3) We cannot maintain our constitutional republican form of government if the Congress stands by meekly and silently and allows the President to break the law, no matter what his intentions are. We did not declare martial law on 9/11. We are still a nation of laws and it is intolerable for the President to act illegally.
I hope Feingold forces a vote on this Resolution and we can separate the patriots from the cowards in both parties. He certainly sounded like he intends to. And we should do everything possible to demand that every single Democratic Senator and every periodically honest Republican Senator support this Resolution as well.
Bill Frist followed Feingold on the show and the following is an excerpt from his response. It is not possible to exemplify how an authoritarian cultist thinks and acts any more vividly than Frist did in making this statement:
FRIST: George, what was interesting in listening to my good friend-Russ, is that he mentioned protecting the American people only one time, and although you went to politics a little bit later, I think it's a crazy political move and I think it in part is a political move because here we are, the Republican Party, the leadership in the Congress, supporting the President of the US as Commander in Chief, who is out there fighting al Qaeda and the Taliban and Osama bin Laden and the people who have sworn, have sworn to destroy Western civilization and all the families listening to us. And they're out now attacking, at least today, through this proposed censure vote, out attacking our Commander in Chief. Doesn’t make sense.
As Digby has astutely pointed out many times, it is nothing short of creepy how lowly politicians like Frist always refer to the President, who is our public servant, as our "Commander in Chief." The President is not the Commander in Chief of Americans; he is only the Commander in Chief of the armed forces (Art. II, Sec. 2: "The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States"). Constantly referring to him as the Commander in Chief is to imply that we have the obligation to treat him the way that soldiers are required to treat their military commanders -- i.e., with unquestioning obedience. That is appropriate for a military dictatorship, but not for a constitutional republic.
Beyond that, Bill Frist is making a rancid and consummately undemocratic point -- that to criticize the President or to hold him to account for his illegal conduct is tantamount to treason, because it constitutes an "attack" on the Commander in Chief which impedes our war effort, a despicable equivalency which they have been peddling for years, ever since John Ashcroft in December, 2001 warned the Senate that questioning the Administration was the same as aiding our enemies:
Attorney General John Ashcroft lashed out Thursday at critics of the administration's response to terrorism, saying questions about whether its actions undermine the Constitution only serve to help terrorists.
"To those who pit Americans against immigrants, citizens against non-citizens, to those who scare peace-loving people with phantoms of lost liberty, my message is this: Your tactics only aid terrorists for they erode our national unity and diminish our resolve," Ashcroft told the Senate Judiciary Committee. "They give ammunition to America's enemies and pause to America's friends. They encourage people of good will to remain silent in the face of evil.
Of all the dishonest and corrupt steps taken by this Administration, the worst, in my view, is that they have flamboyantly masqueraded as defenders of America while they have simultaneously sought to dismantle every political attribute and core principle that has defined who we are as a country for the last 225 years. Bush followers will undoubtedly seek to depict Feingold's effort as quixotic, radical, and even treasonous. And it faces obvious uphill battles, beginning with the frightened posture of Feingold's Democratic colleagues.
But sometimes, the act of a single person of this nature can change things dramatically. Just as Bush followers thought that they had swept this scandal under the rug and covered it up by ensuring that there would be no investigation, Sen. Feingold goes on national television and urges that the President be censured for breaking the law. And he's on the Judiciary Committee as well, and this should make it that much more difficult for Specter to simply shut down the hearings without following through on his promise to find out if there are other warrantless eavesdropping programs besides the one we know about.
Taking a strong and principled stand in defense of the rule of law and our country's principles is what we have been urging Democrats to do from the very beginning of this scandal, and it's what Sen. Feingold just did. I think the blogosphere as a whole ought to find the most effective ways for harnessing whatever influence and power we can muster in order to pressure as many Democrats as possible to support this resolution and to make it as clear as possible to the country why it is so warranted and urgently needed.
UPDATE: I have a post up today at Crooks and Liars regarding the bewildering and truly self-destructive refusal of so many national Democrats to have anything to do with the blogosphere, despite the fact that the blogosphere is really the only venue which can generate truly impassioned and vibrant citizen activism.
It's my hope that Sen. Feingold's office will be receptive from the beginning to exactly the sort of cooperation I reference in that post -- cooperation which many national Democrats are simply afraid to pursue because they fear what Tim Russert, Chris Matthews and their Republican friends and colleagues will say about them if they have anything to do with the fringe, dirty, extremist masses in the blogosphere.
UPDATE II: Via Jeralyn at Talk Left, Sen. Feingold has posted a press release and a Fact Sheet explaining the rationale for his Censure Resolution. In addition to Jeralyn, both Georgia and ReddHedd explain why pursuing censure at this point (as opposed to, say, impeachment) makes complete strategic sense. I agree entirely with that reasoning.
The first order of business is to persuade larger and larger segments of the public that the President broke the law because he believes he has the power to do so, and that this poses a profound and intolerable threat to our system of government. Just as Bush followers thought they had swept this scandal under the rug, Feingold's resolution ensures that this scandal will remain in the public eye and that that discussion will continue.
An email of support to Senator Feingold (one of which I sent a couple of hours ago), phone calls, emails, and letters to our senators and congressional representatives, along with the same to the bastions of public media will be necessary to move this forward.
ReplyDelete“This President is breaking the law.” - Senator Russ Feingold (D-WI)
In order to express my contempt for the fulsome Frist
I’ll have to quote Seinfeld’s Newman (upon putting a piece of broccoli in his mouth):
“Vile weed!”
Feingold is one of about four Senators I really like, and probably my favorite. I have a lot of respect for him.
ReplyDelete(The other three are my Senator, Carl Levin, California's Barbara Boxer, and Vermont's Pat Leahy. I'm sure there are other good ones out there, but I haven't found them.)
BTW, did anyone else notice that Frist's response, that Feingold only mentioned protecting Americans once was a) dumb and b) incorrect?
Dave
An email of support to Senator Feingold (one of which I sent a couple of hours ago), phone calls, emails,
ReplyDeleteI agree that we should definitely begin with that - encouraging and expressing support to Feingold. He should know how many people are so behind what he just did.
But I would also like to see the blogosphere as a whole - which is constantly demanding actions like this and talking about its potential to support things like this - coordinate as much as possible to do whatever can be done to support this resolution. I will do what I can to try to make that happen and hope everyone else will, too.
In order to express my contempt for the fulsome Frist
There are lots of Bush followers who, like Frist, have no limits at all in their willingness to say or do anything in support of the Leader. But somehow, in a way that's hard to put one's finger on, Frist manages to do and say those things in a way that really maximizes the repulsive factor. He has a real talent for that.
I think the blogosphere as a whole ought to find the most effective ways for harnassing whatever influence and power we can muster
ReplyDeleteGlenn, you should know better to proclaim that the "blogosphere" has any interest in "harnassing whatever influence..."
For the most part, the "Advertise Liberally" crowd is just selling snarky comment boards and 300+ threads of insults, each comment proclaiming the one above it is a troll.
The "superblogs" have no interest in change -- americablog will tell people NOT to protest and illegal war of aggression and then thump its chest when an automaker teetering towards bancrupcy makes a rational business decision and cuts back on ads.... like the biggest thing holding up gay rights is whether you drive a ford or chevy...
Over at atrios, duncan will run one thread on one day about "boycotting SD" over and abortion and then shout down and ban anyone that actually ever mentions it again.
Your pals over at FDL may proclaim that they are going to "rescue" kansas and company, but also ignore any meaningful action and sites that are actually doing anything about any of this. Like, right, jane..... if they were just more like corporations our problems with corporate media and corruption would just go away...
buyblue.org has a start... but there are more.
You should know more than anyone that "netroots" is just a cop-out to link back and forth to a limited set of blogs and then derail any talk about doing anything to change it...
There are a few great blogs that do an effective job steering people to the news that matters, by and large, they do not see it as their role to do any more, and that is OK.
The ones that thump their chest the most, however, actually do the least.
And I know you read enough of these sites to know this.
This is just great. This is going to backfire on the Democrats for a 10 point gain for the Republicans.
ReplyDeleteThis is one of the great political mistakes in history and Feingold is going to like the south end of northbound horse.
Murtha gave Bush a bump in the polls with his cut and run strategy and this will make the Dems look weak on defense one more time.
I'll make sure to gloat in a few weeks.
The sad thing is that Feingold voted to confirm Ashcroft as AG as a member of the judiciary committee back in the early days of this badministration. Color me unimpressed that he's now got a spine. Back in early 2001, there were shitloads of people who knew EXACTLY where Bushco wanted to take this country; unfortunately Feingold thought it more important to play nice than to do the right thing.
ReplyDeleteI would like to see added to your # 2 "...without judicial oversight & approval ... which by the very nature of that step undermines the structural enforcement and strength of the technical ability to protect the American people and ensure our national security."
ReplyDeleteBush's actions weaken not strengthen the ability of the wiretaps to play a part in national security.
The sad thing is that Feingold voted to confirm Ashcroft as AG as a member of the judiciary committee back in the early days of this badministration. Color me unimpressed that he's now got a spine.
ReplyDeleteOh, OK - let's only work with the people who have been totally pure and free of any mistakes in their lives. Like the Stalinsts of old, we can purge everyone who was In Error. The 8 of us can meet in your basement and congratulate each other for our ideological purity.
Back in early 2001, there were shitloads of people who knew EXACTLY where Bushco wanted to take this country; unfortunately Feingold thought it more important to play nice than to do the right thing.
LOL! Russ Feingold was the only Senator out of 100 to vote against the Patriot Act, and he did it while the WTC was still in rubble.
If he isn't pure enough for you to work with, who would you work with? The nerdy hippy down the block who heads up the local A.N.S.W.E.R. branch?
I watched Tim Russert this morning. Joe Biden was on and, of course, running for President. He bloviated during the Senate hearings on the SCOTUS appointments. However, I still have always liked him and respect his experience. His current politics, however, make me sick. Literally. Also angry. I have long wondered at the anger and disgust expressed by commenters here about the Bush Administration. Now I can feel some of the same feelings. Listening to Senator Biden’s well-practiced litany of what is wrong with America, how our government is incompetent, wrong and stupid. How we are an outcast in the world community, etc. He has done a computer sort of all the negative information about America published in the last few years and scraped off the bottom. That, apparently, is the gist of his campaign.
ReplyDeletePart of the problem for me is that he had zip, zero, nada to say about what he would do to make things better. Oh, he would stop this and retreat from that and quit doing the other. OK. Might be a good idea. Maybe all are good ideas. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, God knows.
Senator Biden, Mr. Greenwald and others would have me believe that Bush is so evil that he has inspired all of this negativity. It is all his fault, not theirs. America must rid herself of this vermin or all is lost. Hmmm.
I like President Bush (and Laura). I question his competence. However, I admire his courage to risk his political future by going into Iraq – right or wrong. America will not long endure under Jimmie Carters, regardless of party. I have already decided to not vote Republican in the next elections. However, when I see what the Democrats are offering as an alternative, I feel like I will be letting America down by doing so. How can I vote for this stuff? The Democrats cannot even agree on a slogan (which they adopted from a losing campaign). They are perfectly comfortable running down America. Their supporters are....well, let’s just say, for example, that wanting to take Federal money while banning the military from campuses and then making up some BS First Amendment argument and trying to get the SCOTUS to endorse their perfidy.....(Hypatia; now there’s a real 8-0 no-brainer!).
Thank God there is still time before the election to sort this out. Right now I think I would vote for the real Adolph Hitler and his chimpanzee rather than the carpers, losers and opportunistic naysayers like Senator Biden. Yeah, I know, I am just angry. Then Senator Feingold kicks off his campaign by introducing a censure action. Yes, I know that Senator Reid picked him to do so because of his past record. Got to do all that is possible to make this not look like a continuation of the political vendetta from the Intelligence Committee, which it clearly is. Mr. Greenwald is already busy rewriting the charges to fit into the full Senate arena. All because they have no ideas (at least any that motivate voters) for the “better way” they presumably will offer. Well, I guess Senator Biden has gotten my attention which is where successful campaigns start.
You know, Glenn, I just knew you would pick up on the importance of this Feingold censure motion and see the urgency of us all getting together and contributing our efforts to support it.
ReplyDeleteI knew it because you are you, and could do no less.
Fortunately, you are also brilliant enough to make the definitive case for why people should act in certain ways to protect our democracy.
Bye. Have to go write more emails and make more phone calls :)
PS. Please, everyone, call and write Lou Dobbs. Send him Glenn's last two articles. Glenn reaches the Internet audience. Lou reaches TV viewers. We may not even succeed if Lou doesn't pounce on this the way he did on the Port deal, so let him know how important this is to all of us out here in the grassroots. Loudobbs@cnn.com. Write him an email this second, and urge everyone on your email lists to do the same immediately. Illegal immigration is the least of our problems right now. If things go as they are going, nobody is even going to want to sneak into this country anymore. Why risk entering a dictatorship?
One point to remember. Each person has different "lists." Whenever I write to my "list", I always stress the importance that they forward it to everyone on their "lists" and urge those to do the same.
Geometric progression is our friend and ally.
Anonymous #2 said...
ReplyDeleteThis is just great. This is going to backfire on the Democrats for a 10 point gain for the Republicans.
This is one of the great political mistakes in history and Feingold is going to like the south end of northbound horse.
Murtha gave Bush a bump in the polls with his cut and run strategy and this will make the Dems look weak on defense one more time.
I'll make sure to gloat in a few weeks.
You've lost your mind, dear.
Dear notherbob2,
ReplyDeleteYou lost me at,
"I like President Bush (and Laura)."
Outstanding,Glenn, as always. I've been looking for word to describe this crowd's behavior."rancid" is perfect.
ReplyDeleteJust a few things for the rather pitiful trolls to consider
ReplyDeleteThe President does NOT have "inherent authority" to violate the US Constitution anytime he feels like
If the GOP is REALLY stupid enough to think that suddenly-intense opposition to Feingold's censure motion will suddenly get the public overwhelmingly on the side of Dear Leader W, and in enough numbers to instantly reverse all that bad press he's been getting since his re-election, well, I've got some ideal Manhattan swampland I have to part with.
Karl Rove's insistence on playing the National Security card has been blown out of the politicial water by the GOP itself, and over the President's supposed stregth, National & Homeland Security
The GOP is fracturing in upon itself, and the process is too far gone to stop the collapse that's coming
Those who BEST aid terrorists are those who hate the same US Freedoms al-Qaeda does, and that would be the GOP and this Administration, both of which rape the Constitution on an active basis and then have hissy fits when that rape isn't rewarded by a "Thank You" on the part of the victim
Glenn, you know you hit a nerve whenever you get Spamalot Trolls trying to derail the comments
At some point, even the dumbest of Dear Leader W's most brainless sheeple wearies of getting smacked between the eyes with 2 X 4's like facts, logic & reality
Does anyone really think President Jr is EVER going to have the public overwhelmingly on his side again for the rest of his 2nd term?
Feingold MUST be tougher about impeachment proceedings. I don't get it. Even Stephanopolis didn't seem to believe it. I must admit, I stopped reading the transcript when it appeared that Feingold was wimping out. Maybe I missed something but I'm of the opinion that this administration canNOT be trusted in any way, shape, or form.
ReplyDeleteMr. Greenwald,
ReplyDeleteI sure do like your blog so far. I really, really like it.
"Commander in Chief" is the most overplayed line of this admin:The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States. He does not command us, much as his great fans would like otherwise. Oy.
ReplyDeleteAs a Senator, Feingold can do exactly squat about impeachment, which must begin in the House.
ReplyDeleteWhat he can do, he has done.
I think it's got zero chance of passing, but it will, if it comes to a vote, require the Bidens and Bayhs and Liebermans and Nelsons et al. to go on record that given a choice between A.) a tidy, quiet, and polite subjection to a monarchy, and B.) a noisy and upsetting defense of the republic, they chose A.
After which they can have 'collabo' tattoed on their foreheads and cross the aisle and get it over with.
The queen is not amused:
ReplyDeleteAnd I really, really like you:) Welcome aboard.
There's a time to talk impeachment and that time is not now. The Democrats have to get hold of one of the houses in November, and then full steam ahead. Feingold knows that. He's smart. He's not going to give the Republicans any ammo to derail that possibility. His censure motion is non-partisan, about ideas. He's reaching the Independent fiscal Republicans like me.
Glenn, great post at Crooks and Liars. Everyone go read it at once.
Glenn writes:
But somehow, in a way that's hard to put one's finger on, Frist manages to do and say those things in a way that really maximizes the repulsive factor. He has a real talent for that.
Let's call it what it is. Anyone who gets a sadistic thrill from torturing and killing kittens, cats and dogs is deranged. Someone like that can never be expected to act out of conscience. Every serial killer is a person who tortured animals in his youth. People don't turn into sociopaths when they are 21.
What we have here is Adolph Hitler and Dr. Mengele. Let's not be afraid to call them what they are. This is not to say they've done as much damage yet. But left unchecked, they will.
Absolutely, Glenn.
ReplyDeleteWhat did Senator Feingold do today? He offered a concrete, specific and PRINCIPLED (if partial) SOLUTION to the KNOWN problem of a lawbreaking Executive Branch. That is what the entire country has been waiting for from the Congressional Democrats and the Legislative Branch of government. His suggested solution, and his excellent roll-out today is Step One. Step Two is the follow-up support from his colleagues. An excellent roll-out for that would be a joint press conference tomorrow by his Democratic colleagues announcing their support.
To narrow the field and target our efforts, I'm going to list about 20 Senators that I think we can count on (eight or nine of whom I'm basically SURE we can count on, as bolded), to stand with Russ Feingold on this Censure Resolution. Why? Because the following Democratic Senators stood their ground in 2002 (except Harkin), and voted AGAINST the Iraq invasion authorization. And those in bold ALSO voted AGAINST the reauthorization of the P.A.T.R.I.O.T. Act just this past week (plus Harkin), and thereby stand with Russ Feingold in a very principled roll call of honor:
Daniel Akaka, HI
Jeff Bingaman, NM
Barbara Boxer, CA
Robert Byrd, WV
[Kent Conrad, ND - but his support's a stretch]
Mark Dayton, MN
Dick Durbin, IL
RUSS FEINGOLD, WI
Daniel Inouye, HI
Jim Jeffords, VT
[Tom Harkin, IA - Voted for the Iraq War, but against the Patriot Act last week]
Ted Kennedy, MA
Pat Leahy, VT
Carl Levin, MI
Barbara Mikulski, MD
Patty Murray, WA
Jack Reed, RI
Paul Sarbanes, MD
Debbie Stabenow, MI
Ron Wyden, OR
********TESTING********TESTING*******
ReplyDeleteThe Democratic Party does too have a positive program for America. If elected, candidates have stated that they will build more schools, institute good programs for unions, workers and college professors. They will stop all wars and cure all diseases and help the poor and the handicapped. They will lower the deficit, paint the capital building and open new museums and parks and rescue kittens and help the small farmer.
********TESTING**********TESTING*********
Just testing to see if there is a filter keeping all posters and commenters at this site from mentioning anything positive the Democrats have said they intend to do for America when they achieve a majority in the House or Senate.
Hmmmm....guess that's not it.
ReplyDelete"The Democrats cannot even agree on a slogan"
ReplyDeleteI see you got the talking point email.
I always choose party affiliation based on the coolest slogan!
BROTHERHOOD AND FREEDOM!
PROLETARIANS OF ALL NATIONS, UNITE!
About time we separated the goats from the sheep. Lets see where our representative stand on following the Constitution of the United States.
ReplyDelete"Murtha gave Bush a bump in the polls with his cut and run strategy and this will make the Dems look weak on defense one more time."
ReplyDeleteVery true. Bush's approval rating soared from the low 40s to the high 30s.
The Democrats are obviously in their last throes.
The Ninth Army is expected to break through and save Berlin from the red hordes any minute.
I think we're talking Downfall here.
DARLENE SUPERVILLE, Associated Press Writer
ReplyDeleteSun Mar 12, 12:04 AM ET
WASHINGTON - President Bush headlined the annual Gridiron Club political press roast Saturday night....
Democrats also came under attack.....
"What do we stand for? We don't know. What's our platform? We ain't sure. All we know is Dubya's got it wrong," reporters sang, using a nickname for Bush.
OK. Fair enough. But Russ Feingold knows. Let's get behind him to the full extent of our capabilities.
Voting to confirm Ashcroft was not a mistake on Feingold's part. As crazy as he is, Ashcroft had not been running around advocating anything illegal at that point. If the President wanted him, that was his right. Just as it will be Feingold's or the next Dem president's right to put forward someone the rightwing despises.
ReplyDeleteCensuring is fine and it does help put the crimes on record. And, we should support every legitimate means of bringing this administration down.
ReplyDeleteBut given the extensive documentary evidence for multiple crimes, wouldn't "taking a stand" require more than a hand-slap?
Indictments and trials would seem in order.
Perhaps censure is a necessary step towards justice, but it is so little, so late...
glenn and others, The Democrats' response to your recommendations and letter are not so mysterious if you consider the fact that Washington is run by insiders. Yes, there are two sides to this--Dems and Reps--but they work on the assumption that no-one on the outside can govern. Governing is something that only the insiders know how to do. The seeming inability of the Dems to gain ground on the Reps is really their inability to give up the power of the insider that they inherently accept. What the Reps have done is to call call them on the insider trick so that if the Dems attack the Reps they attack they very system of insidership that they both accept.
ReplyDeleteI have written to thersites and asked him to supply the email addresses and phone numbers of all these senators. If anyone has those, please post. Making it easy for lazy people to take action, doubles the response. Nobody has time to spend 24 hours a day finding each phone number and address and then using them. We need to supply those. I'll try to get and post on this and other sites some myself, but will others help also?
ReplyDeleteDaniel Akaka, HI
Jeff Bingaman, NM
Barbara Boxer, CA
Robert Byrd, WV
[Kent Conrad, ND - but his support's a stretch]
Mark Dayton, MN
Dick Durbin, IL
RUSS FEINGOLD, WI
Daniel Inouye, HI
Jim Jeffords, VT
[Tom Harkin, IA - Voted for the Iraq War, but against the Patriot Act last week]
Ted Kennedy, MA
Pat Leahy, VT
Carl Levin, MI
Barbara Mikulski, MD
Patty Murray, WA
Jack Reed, RI
Paul Sarbanes, MD
Debbie Stabenow, MI
Ron Wyden, OR
5:25 PM
So let's use blogs to raise money to place quarter page ads in strategic newspapers across the country calling for the censure of Bush. And, radio ads.
ReplyDeleteI can overlook Senator Levin's response today, as I imagine the whole issue took him by surprise, or he would have had a better answer ready. It's too bad Senators don't have an "I'll have to look into that and give it serious consideration" non-answer at the ready for such questions, when they are surprised with them on live t.v.
ReplyDeleteThere's also a delicate situation here between Feingold, Levin, and Rockefeller -- all of whom are on the Senate Intelligence Committee. Levin is one of the three "chosen" Democrats nominated to sit on the proposed rubber-stamp subcommittee (along with Rockefeller and Dianne Feinstein). I'm afraid Rockefeller is actually planning on pursuing this sham and shameful legislation to help the Republicans, and Levin must be under pressure to go along, instead of calling for a filibuster as is absolutely demanded by their oaths of office.
So in more ways than one, Russ Feingold has publicly thrown the gauntlet down to his colleagues: Put up or shut up, about the founding principles of this country, Senators. IS it just all about protecting the insiders [which Rahm Emanuel for one is hell-bent on doing], or are the people going to start having a say again with the assistance of the Democratic powers-that-be?
P.S. Joe 'Carnival Barker' Biden is a well-known, in fact notorious, bloviator. Glad to know Democrats aren't the only ones being made sick by his endless television antics..
Katherine,
ReplyDeleteI do like Durbin. I had forgotten about him. So that's 5 that I'm comfortable with.
There are a bunch more that I have vagure positive feelings for, but don't know much about.
Glenn:
ReplyDeleteBeyond that, Bill Frist is making a rancid and consummately undemocratic point -- that to criticize the President or to hold him to account for his illegal conduct is tantamount to treason, because it constitutes an "attack" on the Commander in Chief which impedes our war effort...
There is nothing "undemocratic" about it. The GOP is making an election year argument to the voters that the Dems are and have been playing politics with the war effort in general and the NSA program in particular.
The Dems are more than welcome to campaign on Mr. Feingold's censure resolution and make the argument that we ought to spy on al Qaeda and censure the President for doing so.
As an Elephant, I more than welcome that debate. As a matter of fact, I am pleading with you to get on your Dem reps and senators to support Mr. Feingold.
Reading the Republican response of 'sending the wrong signal' to our enemies, what message does not censuring Bush send to our allies? (and about whom we should be far more concerned).
ReplyDeleteThanks for the help, eyes wide open.
ReplyDeleteI probably wasn't as clear as I meant to be -- I was actually thinking that these 20-odd Senators are probably the ones who LEAST need contacting. By highlighting the principled votes among the Democrats, I thought it might help to focus our efforts on the other political-wind-testing, media-conventional-wisdom-following, and otherwise unprincipled and calculating Senators who will need the most persuading to stand with Feingold.
But every little bit helps.
notherbob2 said:
ReplyDeleteI like President Bush (and Laura). I question his competence. However, I admire his courage to risk his political future by going into Iraq – right or wrong.
So. notherbob2 admires recklessness and incompetence in politicians, so long as they're "courageous."
notherbob2, it's easy to be courageous with other people's children.
This administration will go down in history as the most corrupt and incompetent and this president as the worst.
I think we can all admire me for saying that. Right or wrong.
Shaw Kenawe--as Plato said long ago, courage is knowing what to fear and what not to fear. This is the basis of all authority. The Reps have been expert at getting people to fear things that are not to be feared and not fearing the things they should be afraid of.
ReplyDeleteOn Huffington Post:
ReplyDeleteNEW YORK A massive Vanity Affair review of the Plame/CIA case coming to newsstands on Tuesday....
With so little really new in the article, one thing that jumps out is the impact of blogs—principally The Huffington Post--on the Miller case.
One interesting exchange occurred when Bill Keller, New York Times executive editor, allegedly told Miller back in 2003 that she would have to quit reporting from Iraq because she had become “radioactive….You can see it on the blogs.” Miller claims she replied, “Why do you give a shit about the blogs? They do not know anything.”....
Then Brenner quotes Miller complaining about the lack of editing on the blogs and that sometimes “slanderous” attacks on her appear there. But, actually, she is more "appalled” by her colleagues “who believed what they read on the blogs.”
But as time passed, Miller could not escape the blogs, principally Huffington, even though her attorney Floyd Abrams says, “No one takes this stuff seriously, do they?” At another point he refers to "the defamation that was running on the blogs."
The article recounts a scene where another lawyer visits Miller in jail and hands her a clip from Huffington, saying, “You are going to be upset with this.” In view of that attorney, Arianna Huffington and other bloggers were “passing off speculation as fact” or engaging in “pure character assassination.” This was a problem because, as Brenner writes, Huffington’s blog was “steadily gaining heft” and had “become must reading for the media.”
This became particularly troubling when “people at the Times appeared to be talking to Huffington.”
(Editor's note. Will they be prevented from talking to blogs if the DeWine proposal succeeds?)
Brenner then quotes famed investigator Lowell Bergman as claiming that Huffington’s idea that Miller was a White House collaborator “was a fantasy fed by the deep animosity of people toward Judy.” For Brenner the question is, "Did partisan politics trump the First Amendment?"
Only Bob Woodward claims to be immune from blog fever. He tells Brenner he doesn't look at them at all--unless an assistant directs him to something specific.
Brenner's strongest new fact comes near the end when a Hearst Corp. attorney reveals that the company was served with 42 subpoenas relating to reporters in the last six months of 2005, eight times the number in the same period the year before. This is attributed to "Plamegate." Brenner then goes on to cite Judith Miller's reporter friends Lowell Bergman and David Barstow, who blame "Fitzgerald's mission and the agenda of the progressive left."
MidnightRide -
ReplyDeletenot sure if you can count on ted kennedy. I sent him an email encouraging him to support holding an investigation on the NSA scandal, and the only response I got was an offer to become a "constituent co-sponsor for an increase in the minimum wage."
he is generally pretty anti-Bush so I think he's likely to support the censure, but certainly not out of a commitment to principle.
russell_feingold@feingold.senate.gov
ReplyDeleteSend him an email now please. Tell him of your support. Maybe Glenn could post a link in his "How to take a stand for your country post?"
I always say, if you want people to help you, make it easy for them to do so.
I emailed a letter of support to Senator Feingold along with a recommendation that he read UT.
ReplyDeleteI can't imagine that his Resolution will go anywhere but at least I feel a little bit less of a nattering nabob of negativism at the moment.
When will Glenn Greenwald be held accountable for posts such as this?
ReplyDeleteWhen will the government, put a stop to it?
That’s the sort of questions being asked by card-carrying cult members like
Mark Noonan:
It is way past time that we started holding Democrats accountable for their actions. For too long they have been able to slander President Bush, the Bush Administraiton, the American military and our allies in the War on Terrorism with no consequences for their destructive actions. How many people are dead today because the Democrats have chosen to use the war as a partisan political issue? How many more will die in the future because of it?
Every time a senior Democrats gets up in public and calls for an immediate withdrawal, or accuses American soldiers of abuses, or slanders the motives and statements of President Bush, it encourages the enemy. It helps the enemy to recruit more bomb-laden fanatics who can be convinced that the United States is about to quit because a Pelosi, Kennedy, Kerry or Feingold just said on national TV that "X" about the American effort is wrong or a failure. The free ride has gone on too long, and it is time for the patriots to smack down these people with firmness and let the enemy know that we will fight them until victory.
When will Russ Feingold be held accountable for deaths he’s responsible for?
And how many more murders will be committed because of Glenn Greenwald’s blog?
How long, asks Mark Noonan and the Cult of Bush, before “patriots” smack Glenn down with firmness? How much longer will they allow him to blog?
It's too bad Senators don't have an "I'll have to look into that and give it serious consideration" non-answer at the ready for such questions, when they are surprised with them on live t.v.
ReplyDeleteLOL. Yeah, they never do that.
Some want pre-emptive action against "bad people."
ReplyDeleteLet's have pre-emptive State action to strip Congress of legislative immunity over issues of war crimes. Click
My letters to members of Congress from now on will include a paragraph
ReplyDelete1) stating the amount of money I've donated to blogs over the past few years
2) a pledge that I will not donate a penny to their campaigns until I'm satisfied that they're paying attention to the unwashed
3) a link to Glenn's post at C&L
Geeno said...
ReplyDeleteI love posters like bart; all rind, no pith. He really wants to see a referendum on the rule of Homo Selectus? With favorability ratings down in the 20's? I wish the dems could get that frame - you'd kiss your majorities good-bye.
:::heh:::
1) George II is not running again.
2) George II has never lost an election to the Dems. I have heard these same post mortems in 2002 and 2004.
Actually Bart, he lost twice - in 2000 and 2004.
ReplyDeleteOh, wait, you're not counting elections bought and elections stolen.
Sorry for the interruption. Continue trolling.
Glenn,
ReplyDeleteMight it make sense for those state legislatures which are predominantly Democrat-controlled to pass censure resolutions of their own? I have little hope that Feingold is going to succeed in the Senate with his efforts, admirable as they are. I like the notion of censure/impeachment resolutions coming from the states as an expression of grass roots democracy.
Democrats to have anything to do with the blogosphere
ReplyDeleteSelf-serving comment, glenn, I have come to expect more from this blog -- my bad.
Don't get me wrong, post what you want. To say that the current crop of popular blogs is doing anything more than cross link and bring some news to a wider audience is at best a self-delusional pat-on-the-back. At worst, it is just a lie.
So just which blogs have actually found a way to do anything constructive with the discourse on their boards? No wonder mainstream dems don't just jump on board.
Proclaiming that the blogs have the answers is foolish, at least in terms of meaningful change. Maybe you and a select few think you have it all...
Not meant as an insult, don't see how putting the dems down for not jumping on the 300+ threads of insults and trolls at most blogs is constructive.
Resistance is futile
ReplyDeleteAnd how is a call for economic boycotts a statement of giving up, moron?
In fact, many believe that we could make changes as soon as we are willing to do more than pound on our keyboards.
Respectfully, I disagree, but I won't let you paint me with your broad paintbush as part of the do-nothing crowd.
But I don't owe you and explaination.
Given that the only possible beneficiaries of such an action are the terrorist enemeis of the United States, I believe that we should urge the Senate to censure Senator Feingold for giving aid and comfort to the enemy.
ReplyDeleteWhy don't they just declare Bush Supreme Leader and be done with it?
I am just saying this as an intersted observer, but I don't think the blog can indeed bring about the change that is necessary to divert this country from its destructive course. That's a question of self-knowledge, a coin that has lost its value in present-day instant satisfaction-ville.
ReplyDeleteBe that as it may, what the blogs can so is to sift through the disinformation and misinformation and attempt to bring out the truth--as that may be. Problem is, as recent studies show, most people look for information that already confirms their own preconceptions. Getting them off those nuts takes a lever the size that Archimedes might have appreciated.
My guess is that the Reps and Bushies have nodes of control who set out themes and "talking points" that they send to their bloggers. In this way, they can maintain a consistent message and stay on point. Were the Dems to develop coordinated informational projects of this kind, they might begin to loosen the stranglehold this admin has on the MSM.
Mark Noonan:
ReplyDeleteIt is way past time that we started holding Democrats accountable for their actions. For too long they have been able to slander President Bush, the Bush Administraiton, the American military and our allies in the War on Terrorism with no consequences for their destructive actions. How many people are dead today because the Democrats have chosen to use the war as a partisan political issue? How many more will die in the future because of it?
These people have really gone waaaaay over the edge. They are insane, as the above so sickeningly illustrates.
These cultists, I'm afraid, suffer from Mad Bush Disease, and there is no cure for their dementia.
I don't know the span of time between bringing the resolution to the floor and the vote, but we need to really come down hard on any democrat that votes it down.
ReplyDeletemost people look for information that already confirms their own preconceptions
ReplyDeleteExactly -- well put. And then on most blogs, comment boards are either filled with people that have already made up their minds and most are not going to do anything more than bitch and perhaps give a few bucks here or there.
Fundraising is important, but change will require people do more than give a few bucks.
In the meantime, the blogosphere tends to foster discourse as a result of the constant trolling, the mindless "group-think", and discourse among people that often agree on 90% or more of the issues, including, who needs to win elections for constructive change.
The day someone figures out how to create and "moderate" a blog that actually allows people to focus on agreement instead how they differ, maybe something will happen.
Who can blame politicians for handling this situation "with care?"
Show me a "superblog" that actually acknowledges that no one blogger or regular commentator actually has all the answers....
...as if the world would be wonderful if people would just do what atrios or americablog (for example) say. Creating the discourse was easy.
yeah right...
'Are you guilty?' said Winston.
ReplyDelete'Of course I'm guilty!' cried Parsons with a servile glance at the telescreen. 'You don't think the Party would arrest an innocent man, do you?' His frog-like face grew calmer, and even took on a slightly sanctimonious expression. 'Thoughtcrime is a dreadful thing, old man,' he said sententiously. 'It's insidious. It can get hold of you without your even knowing it. Do you know how it got hold of me? In my sleep! Yes, that's a fact. There I was, working away, trying to do my bit -- never knew I had any bad stuff in my mind at all. And then I started talking in my sleep. Do you know what they heard me saying?'
He sank his voice, like someone who is obliged for medical reasons to utter an obscenity.
"Down with [George Bush]!" Yes, I said that! Said it over and over again, it seems. Between you and me, old man, I'm glad they got me before it went any further. Do you know what I'm going to say to them when I go up before the tribunal? "Thank you," I'm going to say, "thank you for saving me before it was too late."
'Who denounced you?' said Winston.
'It was my little daughter,' said Parsons with a sort of doleful pride. 'She listened at the keyhole. Heard what I was saying, and nipped off to the patrols the very next day. Pretty smart for a nipper of seven, eh? I don't bear her any grudge for it. In fact I'm proud of her. It shows I brought her up in the right spirit, anyway.'
This quote inspired by the patriotism of Mark Noonan.
I wish the Republicans WOULD try to hold us "accountable" for "slandering" Bush and this pathetically incompetent administration ... after all the truth is our defense and that's one way to get the truth out.
ReplyDeleteLooking forward to attendinng my first impeach.pac event tomorrow night.
I am probably committing an enormous breach of blog ethics by posting without reading through the posted comments first. I promise to do so and will apologize if this has been mentioned elsewhere. Nevertheless, Glenn I must bring something to your attention.
ReplyDeleteThis afternoon I listened to "This American Life" on NPR. The name of the program: Habeas Smabeas. The transcript of this program should be made available on the internet. If not (and I will do so this evening) we should purchase the tape/transcript. It's about the horrendous situation at Gitmo. Evidently, this is simply a PR problem for the WH as less than 5% of those detained are terrorists. Most are there because the administration engaged in "bounty hunting". The torture techniques described made me physically ill.
The program is replete with disengenous quotes from Bush, Rumsfeld, and Abu Gonzales. You have some influence, some contacts by virtue of this blog and your stature as a constitutional lawyer. I hope you will use it to make the contents of this important program available so that we can call, email, write letters, etc. to our papers, congressmen and others about this situation.
Every American that cares about this country should listen or read this transcript of this program and if Feingold wants a censure, include this information in that procedural matter.
notherbob2:
ReplyDeleteYou like President Bush? You're not paying attention.
Have you seen the *catalogues* of lies he's made? (There was an entire book, _The Lies of George W. Bush_ -- a couple of years ago. Not to be confused with Al Franken's _Lies_.)
The most recent instance was the videotaped proof that President Bush was explicitly warned that the levees in New Orleans might break. Of course, he said "Nobody anticipated the breach of the levees". Thinking we'd never see the videotape proving it a lie, I guess....
It's not that I hate him, it's that he can't be trusted (or rather, he can be trusted to do the wrong thing). You don't need to hate a lying, crooked, incompetent man who's trying to be a dictator -- you just need to get him out of power.
And he keeps breaking the law; starting with diverting money from Afghanistan to Iraq war preparations before getting any Congressional approval for doing anything in Iraq. Maybe that money might have helped us capture bin Laden, or prevent the Taliban from recovering -- but he was hell-bent on Iraq. Look this stuff up.
Of course, the illegal business of deliberately wiretapping Americans without requesting a warrant -- and warrants were very easy to get if they had even a shred of evidence -- is proof that he doesn't care about the Constitution or the laws.
Bush has made us less safe. Frankly, an actual chimpanzee would be better, because he'd do less harm. I know, most of the Democrats are not very inspiring (unless you've got Feingold as your Senator, for instance) -- but they're so much better than the totalitarian incompetents in charge, how can you *not* support them?
PS It's also interesting to note that one technique used by surreptitious disinformation campaigns is to create noise, thereby making ti harder for people to focus on any one message. Those interested in really getting out the Democratic message might wish to consult some of those books and articles on intelligence activities geared towards psyops. I believe there was a piece in the news the other day on how the Reps have consulted PR and advertising firms who specialize in these activities.
ReplyDeleteThis is just a note, considering the amount of noise on this very comments page. How much crap do I need to wade through to get to the real issues? Glenn, perhaps you'd consider assigning a moderator to the page, thereby filtering out all this noise.
Bravo to Senator Feingold, and thanks much Glenn for drawing attention, as usual, to those who deserve it.
ReplyDeleteI can't help but laugh every time I read a "bring it on"-type comment from a Republican w.r.t. the NSA issue. I suspect most of these folks would strenuously object to the notion that they're claiming Americans are a cowardly people, but that is precisely what they are saying. The premise that Feingold's stance is a losing one is predicated on the idea that Americans are so witlessly frightened by our enemy that they will reflexively cede their personal rights and freedoms as their leader demands.
Here's the thing: we've fought much worse than Al Qaeda, and won, many times. We'll do it again many more. And we have and will continue to win without sacrificing our citizens' rights, because that's what America does. It's what we're about and what our forefathers bled for. The reason we have been so strong for so long is that when the chips are down Americans are not cowards and will not be bullied, especially by someone claiming to be one of their own.
So I have an answer to everyone who is saying that Feingold is committing political suicide: I'm happy to bring it on. In fact, I can't wait.
I can't wait to watch you bank your political futures on the cowardice of the average American while we stake ours on their courage. I can't wait to watch you argue that we should sell our own freedom so cheaply, that the rights our founding fathers cared about so deeply that they enshrined them in the very fabric of the Constitution mean so little to you that you would have them tossed aside at the current President's whim.
I can't wait to see it become painfully clear to every American which side is truly capable of leading this country.
Just for fun: Framing the NSA Issue: A Modest Proposal
ReplyDelete"Only Criminals Need Be Afraid Act of 2006."
ReplyDeletethersites2, love it!
And Hume's Ghost - awww, c'mon: "That couldn't happen here in America, not possibly! We're a country of freemen."
Frankly, an actual chimpanzee would be better
ReplyDeleteOooooooooh, the kool-aiders get pretty upset with the chimpanzee stuff. They take it as very disrespectful of the President. You were doing so well up to that point too -- logical, patient, and tolerant.
Doesn't offend me, just saying....
If I follow your post, you were stating rational reasons for the disdain we have for the chimperor. It just seemed odd to throw that in, but I agree.
The Chicago Tribune was able
ReplyDeleteto track Plame as a spy by
using the internet.
http://www.duluthsuperior.com/mld/duluthsuperior/news/politics/14076459.htm
Looks like the farce known as covert agent Plame is imploding.
Glenn, perhaps you'd consider assigning a moderator to the page, thereby filtering out all this noise.
ReplyDeleteDid I read this right? A librarian is giving us all a "virtual SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!"
So who gets to be the "GOD OF GLENN'S BLOG" if glenn chooses not to do it?
I think the better point is that the blog forum is going to be the "powerful tool" for change that some proclaim it should or ought to be.
I am sure there are some comments most reasonable people would agree are "trolls", but then there are the ones that just don't directly and exactly validate the opinions we already have. Strangely, these are the ones that get people most upset, even though they often agree with most all of a given thread.
That is where the whole "blog" thing falls down as a vehicle for change.
I, for one, like bloggin', but am grateful that the large "advertise liberally" blogs don't direct the democratic party.
I know that pisses them off to no end, but it is a good thing for the rest of us!
I've decided to rename my post The Only Criminals Need Be Afraid Act of 2006. Just because I can.
ReplyDeleteHa.
LOL
ReplyDeleteOne of the most biased, fish-wrap newspapers runs a silly and inane article proclaiming to the world that WE ALL CAN OUT CIA AGENTS WITH GOOGLE!!!!!!!!
Funny enough, but now the morons will use it as a "talking point" to try and cover TREASON!
I won't debate the troll, it is just too dumb an argument -- typical Chicago Trib, however....
LOL!!!!
Was wondering how long it would be until I saw some moron try to use that article to back the smirking chimpy's treason.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm....
Wonder if Chicago Trib will run an article that we could have googled "Downing Street Memo", "WMD", "yellow uranium", or "enrichment tubes" and seen through chimpy's lies?
If so -- they we have proof of TREASON, WAR CRIMES, and CRIME AGAINST HUMANITY too!!!!!
WTF!
ReplyDeleteJust saw a link from a great blog, one that does not have endless pontification from some "know-it-all" expert on everything that proclaims that "if democrats would just listen to me...."
So Crooks and Liars now thinks that "circle of links" crowd actually knows more than EVERYONE else and that they are the "heart and sole" of the dem party.
LOL!!!!!!!!!
We are really in trouble when the discourse in the blogosphere gets represented as the "best" and only meaningful insight into what ails this country.
LOL
I love the way the big blogs say, "START YOUR OWN BLOG AND SEE HOW MANY PEOPLE SHOW UP!"
But they would not dare start their own political party and let America actually judge them in a forum that they don't control.
The ADVERTISE LIBERALLY crowd would get creamed.
This from a recent trip to South Africa, the similarities are startling in my opinion.
ReplyDeleteSOUTH AFRICA – The Peasant’s Revolt; Govan Mbeki, 1964
A commentary on how the government worked to win over council members was provided again by Councillor Moshesh, when he objected to the dispatch of a T.T.A. deputation for a new interview with the Minister of Bantu Affairs on the subject of Bantu Authorities. He was highly suspicious of these deputations. He said: “We have had experience of these delegations which go to the Government in Cape Town or Pretoria to protest for us against various things like Bantu Education, and what happened? They were thanked by the Government and when they came back they were the preachers. They were the people who said: ‘You were wrong. It is the proper thing to accept it.’ P.57
From the start the debate was bogged down in confusion. The Recess Committee report had been signed by all twenty-seven members, including those who during the session were to oppose its major aspects, Chief Sabata Dalindyebo said: “Are you aware that when I was requested to sign I had to sign because I am a government man?” p.58
The [] legislation which has broken over the African people in great waves of parliamentary acts and ministerial decrees is stirred by (this) irrational fear. And as anybody who is seized by fear of a non-existent danger, terror of something thtat may spring suddenly out of darkness, starts running away even from his own heart-beat, the Nationalists are hurling themselves headlong, not knowing where, destroying everything of value before them. They claim to be doing all in order to preserve the [] population. P.65
The Nationalist government is working on the theory that if it can keep a firm grip on the Chiefs, they in turn will swing a threatening club over the heads of the middle-class elements, while together the Chiefs and middle-class elements keep the peasantry underfoot. P. 109
A cold, haughty man who nurses an enmity towards Whites and wishes to escape their oppressive presence, [Kaiser] Matanzima has chosen to try to do this by using apartheid, since, in theory, it will vest control in his hands, and it will also serve him in keeping an authoritarian grip on the restless commoners…. P. 137
A victory for Matanzima, paradoxically enough, could result in tribalism as an institution collapsing more swiftly in the Transkei than anywhere else. The government has no option but to work through the Chiefs who, like the Nationalists, have a mortal fear of change and the will of the common peasants. Conservatism is the lifeblood of the chieftainship system, and change threatens the positions of power that the Chiefs and the government enjoy. P 145
But the people do not bear sufferings, such as they bore when the army occupied the Transkei, without becoming steeled in their determination to regroup, re-examine their methods of struggle, develop new ones, and retain the spirit that seeks forever for freedom. P. 134
*** And also this from the exhibit at the Nelson Mandela Center in Cape Town:
The…. Government imagined itself as a…. democracy, that upheld Western values. It saw any challenge to the system of… privileges as an attack on civilization itself. It tried to cover an increasingly violent, repressive… System with a veneer of legality.
As the democratic challenge grew, virtually any action in the name of democratic freedoms was criminalized. Political trials, imprisonment of activists, banning orders and detention without trial became regular events. The Internal Security Act of 1982 made legal almost every form of repression imaginable.
MEDIA IN STRUGGLE
At the heart of this exhibition are the voices and images of the people and organizations that ultimately defeated Apartheid.
In South Africa, these voices overcame a battery of repressive media laws. They made themselves heard in spite of the State-controlled broadcast media and the Establishment press. Activists and organizations found their way into the public imagination through posters, banners, T-shirts, songs, leaflets, buttons and more. This media… It inspired and mobilized thousands. Independent newspapers, journals and broadcasting initiatives also provided a means of critical political debate.
* *****
And when I read about Hillary Clinton and Kerry and Leiberman and Biden and the moderate John McCain and the DLC I remember reading this:
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20051212/berman/2
Ari Berman writes:
In fact, McCain has always been far more conservative than either his supporters or detractors acknowledge. In 2004 he earned a perfect 100 percent rating from Phyllis Schlafly's Eagle Forum and a 0 percent from NARAL. Citizens Against Government Waste dubs him a "taxpayer hero." He has opposed extension of the assault-weapons ban, federal hate crimes legislation and the International Criminal Court. He has supported school vouchers, a missile defense shield and private accounts for Social Security. Well before 9/11 McCain advocated a new Reagan Doctrine of "rogue-state rollback."
"He's a foreign policy hawk, a social conservative and a fiscal conservative who believes in tax cuts but not at the expense of the deficit," says Marshall Wittmann, a former McCain staffer and conservative activist who now works at the Democratic Leadership Council. McCain's ideology resembles an exotic cocktail of Teddy Roosevelt, Barry Goldwater and Ronald Reagan--a conservative before conservatism was bankrupted by fundamentalism and corporatism. His centrist reputation simply proves how far right the center has shifted in Republican politics.
****
Marshall Wittmann, a new Democrat? Not hardly, a leopard doesn’t change its spots.
Just saw the C&L post is glenns....
ReplyDeleteReally, glenn, I thought you were smarter than this.
Don't you see that the Democratic Party has to accomodate diverse views and accept coalitions of people that do not walk in lockstep.
Your blog is more permissible than most -- but clearly there is little tolerance in the "superblogs."
Yeah right, put them in charge of the Democratic Party, allow them to ridicule and insult eveyone that does not worship the "superblogger" and ban people from the discussion -- often folks that agree with 90% or more of the discussion...
Can't fault you for writing a "dud" glenn -- you have a lot of good stuff, but to proclaim the blogosphere is anything more than preaching to the choir is insanity.
A choir, I might add, that is totally under the control of the blogger. That is not going to change anything.
Please, glenn, this one borders on insulting your reader's intellegence. But feel free to disagree, I know the democratic party allows that type of dissention on any number of issues.
In the spirit of taking a stand to help support a brave person who has acted courageously, Black Box voting is putting out an urgent plea to all to help the Diebold Whistleblower, Stephen Heller who has been charged with some pretty big crimes and his defense costs have overwhelmed the family. Every bit helps.
ReplyDelete"Georgiana, what was interesting in listening to my good friend-Russisch, is that he mentioned protecting the Iranian people only one time, and although you went to politics a little bit later, I think it's a crazy political move and I think it in part is a political move because here we are, the Islamic Republican Party, the leadership in the Congress, supporting President Ahmedinejad as Commander in Chief, who is out there fighting the Great Satan and the people who have sworn, have sworn to destroy US hegemony and all the families listening to us. And they're out now attacking, at least today, through this proposed censure vote, out attacking our Commander in Chief. Doesn’t make sense."
ReplyDeleteIt would be a shame if the people in the United States were to hear traitorous criticism of the leadership in China, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia or Iran.
Long Live the Glorious CONServative Cultural Revolution in the name of Dear Leader to defend the dictatorship of the petrol-tariat!
Came across this website www.Unite OurStates.com - claims that it is not connected to any candidate - but a google search indicates that it was put together by Joe Biden. Once you complete the petition -then you receive an email asking for a contribution. So Biden should be on board with the Censure -- or he is seriously morally bankrupt and should be exposed as such. I will call his office first thing in the morning.
ReplyDeleteThank God for Fiengold I say!
ReplyDeleteOn a lighter note, I discovered this today and wanted to share it with you guys...
http://goofyblog.net
Very funny stuff! heh, its sorta like the Onion but with real news stories.
Anyways... Fiengold for President I say, its nice to see someone with balls standing up for us.
Harry
I've been following your blog for a couple of months now. You make cogent legal arguments that even a lay person, like myself, can understand. Of equal importance is the fact that you refrain from engaging in ad hominems, much to the dismay of the right wingers who would love to get you off point. You are making a difference: I have written and had published one LTE, in a large Louisiana newspaper, regarding illegal wiretapping; I have sent, this evening, a correspondence to U.S. Senator Mary Landrieu asking that she support any move to censor, at minimum, George W. Bush. Although I continue to watch C-Span, read Time and Newsweek, monitor several blogs, and read many op-eds, I have come to rely upon your blog and its many thought-provoking comments (exception is Hypatia who craps out so many red herrings that a game warden should check her/him). You are a patriot, sir! Thanks for swinging your version of two lanterns from the North Church.
ReplyDeleteFrom a southerner by birth; a deliberative southerner by choice
I love how often Bart stomps in here and shrieks that he HOPES that people support actions contrary to the Great Leader, because then it will all backfire on them and Republicans will get a permanent majority. After all, the Great Leader is the most popular and well-respected President of the 20th century.
ReplyDeleteIn fact, it's become a pretty useful barometer for the level of veracity and intellect of a given post that Glenn writes. If Bart comes in and actually attempts to make a real argument, then maybe Glenn has faltered. But more often than not, he'll resort to the fallback, which means Glenn is hitting the nail right into his head.
And Bart, you really need to stop walking into haymakers. Not even the biggest Bush supporter tries to argue that Bush actually had more Americans vote for him in 2000 than Al Gore. His "victory" in 2000 would be akin to playing a basketball team in which the team with 45 points is awarded the win over the team with 50 points because the former team's passes looked crisper.
Al Gore...Bush couldn't even get more votes than a stick-up-his ass, inexorably-tainted-by-Clinton-scandal Democrat like Al Gore.
The Democrats won in 2000, whether Katharine Harris and the Supreme Court liked it or not. The only abilities required to see that are (a) counting and (b) grasp of the greater than/less than arithmetic operation.
Read your post over at C&L. Odd that politicians moan at the apathy of the American people and yet ignore those of us who are active. Quite a few of us too, apparently.
ReplyDeleteMaybe you should ask an elected official, or even a 'high ranking staffer' to do a guest post on your blog.
Those commentors full of negativity and pessimism should not be refered to as trolls. Wouldn't it be better to call them eeyore? (I'm not sure of the spelling, my Winnie the Pooh character references are a foggy and distant memory.)
ReplyDeleteI hope Feingold forces a vote on this Resolution and we can separate the patriots from the cowards in both parties.
ReplyDeleteEasy said. How is he supposed to do that?
Funny how some think that any comment that does not say "YEAH, YOU ARE SO ABSOLUTELY CORRECT" is negative....
ReplyDeleteMight be a major reason that the "blogs", despite all the importance they heap on themselves, are not getting the attention that, evidently, glenn and others think they deserve.
Hey -- if you think you know it all, RUN FOR OFFICE YOURSELF. Just another way to say, "Start your own blog and see how many people show up."
In REAL politics, working with REAL people, actually creating support across diverse viewpoints, and building coalitions to set their differences aside to work for larger goals; there is no room for petty arguments and insults.
Those that agree on 80 - 90% of your agenda are no "trolls" - in fact, they are not even "problems."
THEY PROBABLY REPRESENT YOUR CORE SUPPORT.
I won't link to any specific blogs now nor any specific threads -- there is nowhere near the tolerance or acceptance that some here proclaim.
Yet if we were shaking hand, sharing coffee, and not hiding behind cute handles; we would have to accept each other if we agreed on the larger issues.
I don't see it happen online -- call me negative; guess it does show your attitude.
I'm just saying that face-to-face politics does not suddenly decide to annoint the "metablogs" or whatever the new Kings of political wisdom.
Mo and adam. Love your posts. You're both exemplary people, the kind of people I truly admire. You care from your hearts.
ReplyDeleteTo another poster: Blogs don't matter? Hope you have some mustard to put on those words when the time comes, soon, when you have to eat them. Just wait and see.
Five months ago I was the most apolitical person in the country. Never read headlines, never watched TV. I, like many others, was doing my own thing, thinking all politicians were corrupt so why waste my time?
Now I'm obsessed. If I hadn't discovered blogs, I'd be where I was five months ago.
Last week a friend accidentally wrote me and didn't use her
blind feature, so her "list" of about fifty people appeared on screen.
I wrote back to her, adding some other friends of mine, and, also accidentally, pressed "Reply all".
She wrote me back saying she never wanted to hear from me again, said half the people on her list were Bushites, and devout Republicans, and I had embarrased her to those people.
Then I started getting emails back from people on her "list." All enthusiastic, all wanting to know more about how they could help.
An 81 year old apolitical man was one of those. Said he was bored playing golf and taking about nothing with his friends. Since then he's become as obsessed as I am, spending his days writing letters to Senators and taking action. And talking to his other apolitical friends.
Adam is right. There are courageous people out there in this country, with a profound love for the America they grew up knowing. We'll reach them. It's not just the people who read blogs, it's the friends of theirs who don't to whom they start talking. They're out there. The MSM says nothing of interest to them.
Shaw, I agree with you. They're insane. A Mark Noonan is not just wrong, not just stupid, not just blind. He's insane.
We're not, so we'll prevail.
I have this for Mark Noonan and I will state in advance that as a fellow combat veteran I echo this Navy pilots sentiments exactly:
ReplyDeleteOriginally published at Truth Out
Letter to President Bush
By Joseph W. DuRocher
t r u t h o u t | Letter
Saturday 04 March 2006
Forwarded from Marni Harmony, the minister of a church in Orlando. Joe is one of her parishioners.
President George W. Bush
The White House
1600 Pennsylvania Avenue NW
Washington, D.C. 20500
Dear Mr. President:
As a young man I was honored to serve our nation as a commissioned officer and helicopter pilot in the US Navy. Before me in WWII, my father defended the country spending two years in the Pacific aboard the USS Hornet (CV-14). We were patriots sworn "to protect and defend". Today I conclude that you have dishonored our service and the Constitution and principles of our oath. My dad was buried with full military honors so I cannot act for him. But for myself, I return enclosed the symbols of my years of service: the shoulder boards of my rank and my Naval Aviator's wings.
Until your administration, I believed it was inconceivable that the United States would ever initiate an aggressive and preemptive war against a country that posed no threat to us. Until your administration, I thought it was impossible for our nation to take hundreds of persons into custody without provable charges of any kind, and to "disappear" them into holes like Gitmo, Abu Ghraib and Bagram. Until your administration, in my wildest legal fantasy I could not imagine a US Attorney General seeking to justify torture or a President first stating his intent to veto an anti-torture law, and then adding a "signing statement" that he intends to ignore such law as he sees fit. I do not want these things done in my name.
As a citizen, a patriot, a parent and grandparent, a lawyer and law teacher I am left with such a feeling of loss and helplessness. I think of myself as a good American and I ask myself what can I do when I see the face of evil? Illegal and immoral war, torture and confinement for life without trial have never been part of our Constitutional tradition. But my vote has become meaningless because I live in a safe district drawn by your political party. My congressman is unresponsive to my concerns because his time is filled with lobbyists' largess. Protests are limited to your "free speech zones", out of sight of the parade. Even speaking openly is to risk being labeled un-American, pro-terrorist or anti-troops. And I am a disciplined pacifist, so any violent act is out of the question.
Nevertheless, to remain silent is to let you think I approve or support your actions. I do not. So, I am saddened to give up my wings and bars. They were hard won and my parents and wife were as proud as I was when I earned them over forty years ago. But I hate the torture and death you have caused more than I value their symbolism. Giving them up makes me cry for my beloved country.
Joseph W. DuRocher
thersites2, you said "I'm going to offer a new ballot initiative in my state, called the "Only Criminals Need Be Afraid Act of 2006."
ReplyDeleteToo brilliant! Your irony is lethally on target. That's a saver!
BTW if anyone posts here from Wisconsin, I'd like to ask if Russ Feingold is going to run for President, and if not, why not?
ReplyDeleteGlenn,
ReplyDeleteAs much as I highly respect the "principled" stand taken by Senator Russ Feingold, I'm less than sanguine about its consequences. If folks expect some type of concrete result other than keeping the controversy in the public eye, I believe they’ll be disappointed.
Sometimes I'm amazed that folks are still arguing about this controversy.
While many have hoped that the "political sphere" would correct this problem, my belief was that it would never happen. Politicians by their nature swing with the breeze. One should expect no less...after all, they're POLITICIANS! Politicians belong to "parties". And their first loyalty is of course to "The Party"! All else is secondary...including "principles"! Please don't confuse a "politician" with a "statesman".
I've always believed that the "only" sphere where this controversy would be dealt with was the "judicial sphere". My reasoning is simply that a law was and is being broken, and broken laws are dealt with in court.
The opposition continually states that no law has been broken, citing this and that "specious" reasoning (Article II, AUMF, etc.). They are simply wrong! Too many lose site of the basic inarguable facts, so here's a brief summary:
Fact #1: There is a law that states all domestic communications intercepts must be approved by a judge (i.e. a warrant authorized by the FISA court).
Fact #2: Bush has publicly and repeatedly stated that communications between folks overseas and folks here in the US are being intercepted.
Fact #3: Gonzales has stated publicly and repeatedly that these communication intercepts are NOT approved by a judge (no warrants via the FISA court).
Fact #4: Since Fact #1 is not being followed, the administration has indeed "broken" the law.
Glenn, as you are an attorney, I would really appreciate it if you would sometime in the future (perhaps the very near future) help us by detailing some of the legal tactics that could be used to get this criminal behavior before a court.
In particular, I’d love to see a detailed brief on how someone like Senator Russ Feingold (and other Senators) could bring this issue to court by claiming a criminal violation of the National Security Act of 1947.
Specifically, the following section:
REPORTING OF INTELLIGENCE ACTIVITIES OTHER THAN COVERT ACTIONS
SEC. 502. [50 U.S.C. 413a] To the extent consistent with due regard for the protection from unauthorized disclosure of classified information relating to sensitive intelligence sources and methods or other exceptionally sensitive matters, the Director of Central Intelligence and the heads of all departments, agencies, and other entities of the United States Government involved in intelligence activities shall -
(1) keep the congressional intelligence committees fully and currently informed of all intelligence activities, other than a covert action (as defined in section 503(e)), which are the responsibility of, are engaged in by, or are carried out for or on behalf of, any department, agency, or entity of the United States Government, including any significant anticipated intelligence activity and any significant intelligence failure; and
(2) furnish the congressional intelligence committees any information or material concerning intelligence activities, other than covert actions, which is within their custody or control, and which is requested by either of the congressional intelligence committees in order to carry out its authorized responsibilities.
When Feingold finds himself interviewed, he should mention in an off-hand way that 1) a majority of Americans think the President should be impeached, so a censure is relatively mild, considering, and 2) most Americans think that eavesdropping on American citizens is illegal and morally wrong.
ReplyDeletePS Everyone should be emailing CNN to keep them honest in their reporting on Feingold's resolution. Their most recent report dwells on Feingold's motivations, thereby watering down the justness of this censure. They should also point out that Feingold's resolution simply reflects the average American's sentiments, since a majority of citizens think the President should be impeached.
ReplyDeleteIn the opinion of most of the world, no doubt the defining moment of the Presidency of George W. Bush was his response to the events of September 11th, 2001.
ReplyDeleteI respectfully disagree. The defining moment of his presidency, marked by a major news conference on August 9, 2001, was his decision to ban additional stem cell harvesting while letting research on those cultures already in existence continue...
George Bush, The Indian Nuclear Agreement and International Law
We have to convince the Dems that it is imperative that they storm the MSM outlets, television especially, and that they appear in person, so that their message is not diluted or twisted through ignorance or deliberate malice.
ReplyDeleteYou know, liberals have always misinterpreted that Ashcroft statement:
ReplyDelete"To those who pit Americans against immigrants, citizens against non-citizens, to those who scare peace-loving people with phantoms of lost liberty, my message is this: Your tactics only aid terrorists for they erode our national unity and diminish our resolve," Ashcroft told the Senate Judiciary Committee. "They give ammunition to America's enemies and pause to America's friends. They encourage people of good will to remain silent in the face of evil.
Check out the first part of what Ashcroft said: "those who pit Americans against immigrants, citizens against non-citizens."
Who was he talking about there? Liberals? Liberals are the ones who pit Americans against immigrants? I don't think so. I think Ashcroft was obviously taking aim at certain segments of the right-wing that do that sort of thing.
Then there's the phrase: "to those who scare peace-loving people with phantoms of lost liberty."
Here, Ashcroft was referring not to the NSA scandal (remember, this is a few years ago). He was referring to the sorts of ignorant fools who were making hysterical claims that the FBI was reading everybody's library records under the Patriot Act.
anonymous has all the answers, apparently... except how to start his/her own "superblog."
ReplyDelete.
PS Everyone should be emailing CNN to keep them honest in their reporting on Feingold's resolution. Their most recent report dwells on Feingold's motivations, thereby watering down the justness of this censure. They should also point out that Feingold's resolution simply reflects the average American's sentiments, since a majority of citizens think the President should be impeached.
ReplyDeleteActually, even if he were motivated solely by the thought of political gain, all that would mean is that our system is finally working again. Don't people read James "ambition must be made to check ambition" Madison's contributions to the Federalist Papers anymore?
I am so tired of the newsmedia trying to censure people for behaving in an American manner. When did the MSM become so un-American? And the frightening thing is that people pick up on the MSM's hatred of America and scorn toward middle-'murka, but ya know what they do -- they get peaved at us liberals because, no matter what, people still believe the media is "liberal" (and that liberals hate 'murka) and the media's hatred of America only re-enforces people's existing prejudices which hurt us more.
We are stuck in a dangerous rut, sinking into the quagmire of empire -- and we need to drag ourselves out now, swiftly and soon!