Eleanor Clift: Dem Feingold Tosses GOP a Life Raft
It really never ceases to amaze how the most aggressive smear jobs on Democrats who take a stand against the Bush Administration almost always come from the allegedly liberal pundits or anonymous Democratic consultants. Clift's column is not worth spending much time on because it doesn't contain any arguments. What makes this column notable is how steadfastly loyal she is to GOP talking points as she mindlessly repeats every baseless slogan and accusation against Russ Feingold and his censure resolution. Her column begins by mouthing the words of every Bush follower in the blogosphere this week:
Republicans finally had something to celebrate this week when Democratic Sen. Russ Feingold called for censuring George W. Bush. Democrats must have a death wish. Just when the momentum was going against the president, Feingold pops up to toss the GOP a life raft.
Right from the mouth of Ken Mehlman and into Clift's pen. There is zero evidence that Feingold's censure resolution has helped Republicans and plenty of evidence that it has not -- beginning with the Republicans' conduct in trying to kill every branch of this scandal from the moment it emerged.
If the NSA scandal were such a great benefit politically to Republicans, they would be doing everything they could to sustain it and keep it in the spotlight, instead of what they've been doing: desperately trying to kill every investigation and sweep it under the rug. Sen. Frist attempted to force an immediate vote on the Resolution before it could even be read, let alone debated, because the last thing they want is for the spotlight to be on the fact that the President broke the law and the GOP-controlled Congress wants to do nothing about it. Is it too much to ask of Clift that she look past the first level of Beltway GOP-furnished conventional wisdom?
It’s brilliant strategy for him, a dark horse presidential candidate carving out a niche to the left of Hillary Clinton. The junior senator from New York is under attack for being too soft on Bush and the war, and most of the non-Hillarys are to her right. There is a vacuum in the heart of the party’s base that Feingold fills, but at what cost?
Russ Feingold is one of the very few national politicians of either party with a reputation for integrity. But people like Clift just whimsically and breezily accuse him of having cynical and base political motives when introducing this Resolution. It can't possibly be because he actually believes that the President's law-breaking is wrong and demands punishment. He can't possibly be sincere in his motives and beliefs. No - he's clearly just a craven political opportunist who did this as a "stunt" for his own political gain. That goes without saying.
The reality is that people like Clift can't believe that anyone acts in accordance with their principles because people like Clift have none, so they assume that that's the case for everyone else. They think that their cynicism and scorn towards principle are the hallmarks of sophistication and savvy when, in reality, it doesn't signify anything other than the fact that they are devoid of beliefs or principles.
Just as John Kerry’s belated effort to stop Judge Samuel Alito’s confirmation to the Supreme Court failed to rally his fellow Democrats, Feingold’s move toward censure has been received like a foul odor, sending Democrats scurrying for the exits. Only two of his colleagues, Iowa’s Tom Harkin and California’s Barbara Boxer, signed on as cosponsors. And for good reason. The broader public sees it as political extremism.
Eleanor Clift is writing in Newsweek that the "broader public" -- as though she knows anything about them -- "sees [the Feingold Resolution] as political extremism." That is a statement that is without an iota of support. She literally just made it up, because she heard Joe Klein saying it and the Democratic consultant geniuses she talks to whispered it in hear ear, so now she knows how the "broader public" thinks about this - even though polling data shows exactly the opposite.
This is the what passes as "analysis" in our national media - insular, baseless chitchat that gets passed back and forth between the same pompous, chronically-wrong pundits and consultants who could literally not be further removed from what the "broader public" thinks about anything.
Just when the Republicans looked like they were coming unhinged, the Democrats serve up a refresher course on why they can’t be trusted with the keys to the country.
Russ Feingold thinks that George Bush should not break the law. He thinks it's wrong that Bush broke the law and believes that Bush should be censured for having done so, as opposed to allowing the President to break the law without consequences.
Therefore, says the liberal pundit Eleanor Clift, this shows that Democrats "can't be trusted with the keys to the country." Who needs Karl Rove when you have her and Joe Klein?
Nor could it have come at a better time for a Republican Party still battered by bad news in the polls. The latest Wall Street Journal/NBC survey, released earlier this week, shows that Bush’s job approval rating at its lowest ever—37 percent—as a majority of Americans lose confidence that the Iraq war will end successfully. The same poll shows a significant uptick in the country’s willingness to accept a Democratic Congress, with 50 percent of those questioned saying they would prefer the party to control Congress.
Could someone tell Eleanor Clift that this scandal didn't just emerge this week when Feingold introduced his Resolution? The controversy over George Bush's illegal eavesdropping has been in the spotlight since December 16 of last year. During that time, Bush's popularity has steadily eroded to an embarrassing 35%. The idea that the NSA scandal is a "life raft" that will save the Bush Presidency is incoherent, vacuous and empirically false. All it is, is conventional wisdom that arose among the scared Democratic consultant and punditry class at the very beginning -- when they counseled Democrats to just let the whole thing go away -- and no matter how many facts disprove it, they are incapable of doing anything but mouthing it over and over and over.
One thing that is conspicuously missing from Clift's vapid screed is what is always missing from people who oppose Feingold's censure resolution and/or who urge that Democrats not oppose Bush's law-breaking - namely, a discussion of the consequences for the country from doing nothing in the face of George Bush's admissions that his Administration has been violating the law and the disclosure that they have adopted radical theories which insist that the President has the power to do so, not just with regard to surveillance but all matters relating to national security. Do any of those things even matter to people who think like Clift?
Et tu, Eleanor?
ReplyDeleteSad.
outrageous. sometimes things like this make me wonder if the Dem party is worth the effort.
ReplyDeletei know, i know....but how about some freakin principle in our policies...
Complete Contact Info for Democratic and Independent Senators (Beta)
ReplyDeleteClift's fellow twit Ryan Lizza was offering the same misguided dreck yesterday at The New Republic Online. His peroration:
ReplyDelete"So the partisans on the left cheering Feingold appear to have both the policy and the politics wrong. Censure is meaningless. Changing the FISA law is the way to address Bush's overreach. And the only way for Democrats to change FISA is for them to take back the Senate. This week, Feingold's censure petition has made that goal just a little bit more difficult to achieve. What an ass."
This snowball has only begun to pick up some speed. Clift and the like won't notice it until it rolls over them.
ReplyDeleteThe great British psychological theorist and iconoclast R.D. Laing once observed, "The most effective way to affect someone's behavior is not to tell them what to do. It's to tell them who they are."
ReplyDeleteI think of this quote whenever I see media spin like Clift's. You see it played out over and over: an issue is raised, but rather than deal with the issue straight on, the commentator will focus on what other people (ostensibly) think of the issue. When enough talking heads repeat the same spin, it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. Even someone who may agree with a particular policy initiative can resign themselves to thinking it's 'unrealistic' because 'too few people are behind it' and unwittingly become the reality that the commentator was creating.
The ability of the blogosphere to interrupt this corporate-media-controlled feedback loop is one of its most important strengths.
She's always, always been a hack. I guess you had to be a Republican to see that years ago, as Democrats have always lionized her.
ReplyDeleteBut speaking of that mental giant, Joe Klein, here's something interesting. Anyone catch Lou Dobbs interviewing Joe Klein a day or two ago? I almost fell out of my chair.
Joe Klein, in that annoyingly stupid (and infuriating because of the extent of his stupidity) way of his was prattling on about something like he always does, and I was hardly paying attention because I expected it to be just another show where some idiot guests get to weigh in, when suddenly Lou Dobbs interrupts him and proceeds to absolutely viscerate him, and that's an understatement, saying things like (from memory) "that's the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard" and some such.
You usually don't see anything like that on CNN when one of their "contract stooges" is on a panel. Lou went on and on, pointing out the fallacy and stupidity of everything Joe Klein had just said.
Joe was stunned, and hardly able to continue. He looked around pathetically at the other two people on the panel, Ed Rollins and someone else, and said "Hey, Help me out here guys. Can anyone help me?"
Ed Rollins stepped in to help pick the pieces of Joe Klein up off the floor, and Lou apologized for losing his cool, but it was one of those rare moments, which I hope we see more of, where hosts drop their civility and tolerance for this endless bullshit and come out swinging and eviserate the fools.
Gotta hand it to Lou Dobbs. He really has guts and passion. The media version of Russ Feingold.
But what about Kos? I know you are not supposed to say anything about Kos on this site, as people complain, but he leaves me so cold I get frostbite. Whatever he's up to, I don't care and count me out.
Here's an interview with him in the NY Times:
Whom would you like to see run in 2008?
I like Mark Warner. I like Russ Feingold. I don't hate Hillary, but I don't like anyone who is declared by fiat to be the front-runner.
Sure. Why would he? He doesn't get to play a role if someone has it locked up.
In the same article he talks about how what the Democrats really need is their own version of Karl Rove to "help sell whatever it is they are selling."
And that's the problem with Kos. I really get the feeling he could care less about "whatever it is they are selling."
It's how they sell it that fascinates him.
Pass.
"The reality is that people like Clift can't believe that anyone acts in accordance with their principles because people like Clift have none..."
ReplyDeleteHe..he..right on the point. BTW, Glen, what's your take how many of your readers have some principles they're ready to loose their job over it :)))).
And this is really all about setting legal precedents to grab more and more power
ReplyDeleteNothing is more amusing that watching the far left of the Donkey Party in civil war with the establishment left over national security.
ReplyDeleteIf the NSA scandal were such a great benefit politically to Republicans, they would be doing everything they could to sustain it and keep it in the spotlight, instead of what they've been doing: desperately trying to kill every investigation and sweep it under the rug.
Let me see if I get this straight....
Karl Rove is using reliable DNC mouthpiece Eleanor Clift to further publicize the rift in the Donkey Party over the NSC Program because he secretly wants the whole thing to go away.
Right.
Sen. Frist attempted to force an immediate vote on the Resolution before it could even be read, let alone debated, because the last thing they want is for the spotlight to be on the fact that the President broke the law and the GOP-controlled Congress wants to do nothing about it.
Along the same lines, are you honestly arguing that Elephant presidential candidate Frist wants a prime time vote on the Feingold censure proposal because he is terrified to publicize it?
With respect, are you nuts?
The GOP is loving every minute of this Donkey crack-up.
Fox News, conservative talk radio and the conservative blogosphere are flogging this subject for all it is worth every single day.
This is pure red meat with BBQ sauce for their audience.
Far from fearing a reading the the censure resolution and a debate, Elephant presidential candidate Frist would love nothing better than to splash the censure resolution text on a television graphic followed by a couple days of televised debate on the NSA Program with Frist himself on center stage debating Donkey presidential candidate Feingold.
Nothing rallies the GOP faithful than highlighting Donkey attacks on national security programs.
Nothing cracks up the GOP faithful more than seeing Donkeys screaming and accusing one another of not being real Democrats.
In the same spirit of "making this whole thing go away" shown by Senator Frist, I heartily encourage each and every one of you to jam the switchboards of every Donkey senator demanding a lengthy debate and vote on the Feingold censure resolution.
Go here for your contact information...
> http://vichydems.blogspot.com/2006/03/contact-info-for-democratic-senators.html
Indeed, this Elephant will join you right now by emailing my Colorado Donkey Senator.
Good luck and good hunting!
yes but ranting about this isnt going to matter is it?
ReplyDeleteWe've seen the "you are just embarassing/discrediting yourselves" meme many times. We've even seen it in the comments section of this blog. It is the standard attack against anyone who dares to point out the emperor's state of undress, and it should be ignored for the nonsense it is. The objective is to silence critics by convincing them to censor themselves and instead appear reasonable by giving deference to the GOP line, however absurd it may be. It's something most Democrats have bought into wholeheartedly despite it doing them nothing but harm.
ReplyDeleteIt's ridiculous for any party which pays someone like Ann Coulter tens of thousands of dollars to turn their events into little Nuremburg rallies to accuse anyone else of being extreme, angry, out of touch or having the wrong values, but they do, and we are supposed to take them seriously. Enough.
If you are having a hard time writing your senator, here is what I just emailed to Senator Salazar...
ReplyDeleteSenator Salazar:
I urge you to vote to allow Senator Feingold's resolution to censure President Bush to come to the floor of the Senate as soon as possible for a thorough debate and a vote.
Very serious charges of criminal wrongdoing have been brought against President Bush for his creation and operation of the NSA Terrorist Surveillance Program by Senator Feingold and several other senators. These charges go to the heart of the Constitutional roles and responsibilities of the President and the Congress. In order to maintain the credibility of the Senate, such charges must be resolved through public debate and and a vote by each senator.
Further investigation of the facts which underly these criminal charges is unnecessary. The basic facts of the NSA Terrorist Surveillance Program have been made public by the press and the legal arguments have been thoroughly presented by the Congressional Research Service, the Department of Justice and several dozen legal scholars.
Now is the time for the Senate to address the Feingold censure resolution. I cannot in good conscience vote for you in any future elections if you abdicate your responsibility as a senator to confront and resolve the critical issues of the constitutional checks and balances raised by the Feingold censure resolution.
Let your conscience be your guide in this matter.
Thank you for your kind consideration of my letter.
(Upper West)
ReplyDeleteWhat has happened to Eleanor -- the liberal bulwark against the roaring Blankleys and Buchanans of the McLaughlin Group?
A mere two months ago, she was saying that the Alito filibuster was a "stunt" by Kerry and others to curry support with the Democratic left.
Very disappointing pattern.
Glenn: The Democratic consultant clique and their insider patrons must be feeling the reins of control slipping away. They will say anything--even in betrayal of their own principles--to maintain their consulting fees, advertising percentages, and sense of power. I imagine they're leaning hard on their media shills to travesty Feingold any way they can.
ReplyDeleteAs a rightwinger, I support Feingold's censure resolution just as a gave money to Hillary Clinton's campaign.
ReplyDeleteThis is a trainwreck for the Democratic party and I can't believe Glenn still believes this is winning issue for the left. Oh, and it will get much worse than this over the next few months.
Boy that Karl Rove is good, even mind-controlling life-long lefty Eleanor Clift.
Eleanor Clift and her ilk are so passe.Our people (the progressive blogosphere)know Bush is on the ropes, so does Feingold, and he's going to drive a stake into Bush's heart and Dracula(Bush) will die a slow death. good riddance.
ReplyDeleteI can see that the "concern" trolls are now joined by their butt-buddies, the "Don't-throw-me-in-the-briar-patch" trolls.
ReplyDeleteI expect Republican shills to insult my intelligence, but I still find it hard to supress my urge to choke the shit out of them.
Never mind that...keep it up, Glenn, they are scared shitless that more and more people are paying attention to you. Because they know that that way lies their doom.
Eleanor Clift made her name as a fierce Hillary partisan.
ReplyDeleteIt seems to me that this article is belittling to Russ because it is making Hillary look bad in comparison.
I agree with everything Glenn said about Clift's screed, but I don't agree with the motives ascribed to her by some of the commenters.
ReplyDeleteI think she probably is just plain clueless. I know too many good people who don't quite seem to get it to automatically ascribe venal motives to them.
Republicans captured the center partly by turning dissembling and astroturfing into art forms.
ReplyDeletekovie said...
ReplyDeleteTo everyone who claims here that the censure resolution can only help the GOP by rallying its base, you're forgetting one thing.
The GOP base does not and cannot win elections for GOP candidates by itself in most districts, let alone statewide or nationally.
For GOP candidates to win in districts or states that aren't solidly wingnutty, they need the supports of independants and swing voters.
And as all the polls show, they have utterly lost their support, across the board, and Feingold's resolution is not going to rally them the way that it might rally the wingnut base.
1) Mr. Bush won in 2004 by adding to the GOP base and getting them to the polls, even though he lost the folks who self identified as Dems and Independents. He added to the base on the national defense theme.
2) The base is even more critical during low turnout off year elections. In 2002, the GOP won an election they historically should have lost by rallying the base on - you guessed it - national security.
3) To the extent that the "swing voters" count in an off year election, things like impeachment and censure tend to turn them off. Note the last congressional election where the Dems did well - 1998.
So far as I can tell, this Elephant is the only one who has actually contacted his Donkey senator to demanding that he help bring the Feingold censure resolution to a floor debate and a vote.
Have you?
If not, what is stopping you?
Bring it on folks!
Glenn, Elanor Clift's column has an email link. Why not send her a copy of your post?
ReplyDeleteI get such a chuckle out of reading the Bush cultists posting here who still delude themselves into thinking they speak with the voice of "the American people". Even now, when their father figure is the most despised president since his own father's dismal 28% approval nadir, they think "America" shares in their twisted fantasies. Sad, I know, but amusing.
ReplyDeleteNews flash: you are a tiny minority now, and your extremist views are last year's milk. You might not realize it yet, but the rest of America isn't laughing with you, we're laughing at you.
The last time a Congress censured a President...
ReplyDeleteCensure the president. A member of the opposing party in the Senate finally introduced a resolution to do just that. Administration critics may not have agreed on much and lacked a coherent agenda, but they were united in their hostility to the president. He seized powers not granted under the Constitution, treated the judiciary with contempt and acted like an elective monarch. But his throne started to crumble.
Finally, one of the soberer senators gave voice to the frustrations of a party that lost twice to the president: "The land is filled with spies and informers; and detraction and denunciation are the order of the day. . . . The . . . symptoms of despotism are upon us; and if Congress (does) not apply an instantaneous and effective remedy, the fatal collapse will soon come on."
Sen. Russ Feingold? No, Sen. Henry Clay, moving to censure President Andrew Jackson in 1833 for running afoul of the Whig Party's understanding of presidential power.
That's the last time Congress censured a president, and Feingold, D-Wis., thinks Congress should do it again. He introduced a resolution to censure President Bush for "his unlawful authorization of wiretaps of Americans."...
Then again, maybe those Democrats are wise to "run and hide." Consider what happened to Clay and the Whigs after they let their "King Andrew" animus get the best of them and censured the "tyrannical" Jackson. They lost the 1834 congressional elections and the presidential election two years later. The next Congress expunged Clay's censure resolution. And Jackson — a polarizing political figure and champion of the strong chief executive — went down in history as one of our great presidents.
http://www.statesman.com/opinion/content/editorial/stories/03/18reinhard_edit.html
Bart, you stated:
ReplyDelete1) Mr. Bush won in 2004 by adding to the GOP base and getting them to the polls, even though he lost the folks who self identified as Dems and Independents. He added to the base on the national defense theme.
Imho, Mr Bush won because the Democrats offered such a weak candidate. I'm a leftish-moderate and I had to hold my nose while voting for Mr. Kerry. And he's my own Senator.
Any half-decent candidate could have beaten Mr. Bush (again, imho). I can't prove this but my sense is that many people who voted for Mr. Bush were holding their noses also.
In other words, Mr. Bush's support was 51% wide and 1 inch deep (to mix metaphors). Now it's 35% wide, but a mile deep (I admit, his core base will support him no matter what).
The country is crying out to see some backbone from the Dems. I believe if they rallied behind the Feingold censure resolution, 55- 60% of the country would rally behind them.
I thought your closing quote ("Bring it on folks!") quite apt. You sound just like your fearless (or is it feckless?) leader. He said "Bring it on" and unfortunately, others paid the price.
You know, Bart, I'm with you on this one. For different reasons though. As my grandmother said "Shit or get off the pot", and so should the Democrats. I think this could give them another chance to prove they have the same amount of conviction and integrity that Sens. Feingold and Boxer have, which would make sworn Dems and swing voters very happy, in my opinion. We're all looking for some backbone from our party.
ReplyDeleteAs far as Eleanor Clift is concerned, has anyone wondered if she's one of those "journalists" that the WH has been known to pay (in order to push their agenda). Remember Maggie Gallagher? That'd certainly be one reason she's shooting Dems in the back.
Devoman said...
ReplyDeleteImho, Mr Bush won because the Democrats offered such a weak candidate. I'm a leftish-moderate and I had to hold my nose while voting for Mr. Kerry. And he's my own Senator.
I don't disagree. Kerry was a poor candidate. However, the Dem candidate in that election was irrelevant. 2004 was a referendum about Bush as a war leader.
I can't prove this but my sense is that many people who voted for Mr. Bush were holding their noses also.
I agree again. I held my nose when I voted for Bush. I opposed every single one of his domestic initiatives except the tax cuts. If we were not at war, I would have voted libertarian like I did in 1992 when I refused to vote for George I. However, we were at war and Bush is an uncompromising war leader. The thought of Kerry as CiC during a time of war scared the hell out of me.
The country is crying out to see some backbone from the Dems. I believe if they rallied behind the Feingold censure resolution, 55- 60% of the country would rally behind them.
Here we disagree. Many in the country are longing to see a Donkey Party with a backbone on national defense. However, the Feingold censure resolution only proves that the Dems are willing to sacrifice national defense for political expediency. What kind of party calls their commander in chief a criminal during a war because he spied on the enemy making calls into the United States without the approval of a judge?
Every Dem senator in anything close to a competitive state who voted for this censure resolution would lose. I would lay money on it.
Calling Eleanor Clift an idiot is like calling a Hershey bar chocolate. There's a reason she's on the McLoudmouth Group show each week, and it's nothing to do with IQ.
ReplyDeleteIt's sad that anyone would take her seriously, but I never have.
I suppose a good question would be "Why do national newsmagazines continue to waste column inches on these people?".
Re: "Do any of those things even matter to people who think like Clift?"
ReplyDeleteMy suspicion is that many of these people are not capable of comprehending the issue. People in this country are in general so unfamiliar with dictatorship that they cannot see the signs or cannot believe that it can happen to them.
It is abvious to me that when the GOP says "bring it on" they are truly frightened. During the 2004 primaries, they said that they would love to see Howard Dean as the nomine. It was later revieled that they were truly worried about him because he told it like it was and would be much more difficult to defeat. Hence the bring on the centure talk. The wiretap issue in reality, not inside the beltway, is a terrible situation for the GOP because everyone knows deep down inside that the pres broke the law. To say it is a good issue for a 34% pres is laughable.
ReplyDeleteDon't blame Clift. Just stand up for Feingold and Dean and other plain spoken, reasonable people who have dedticated their lives to the idea of public service.
ReplyDeleteThe smear game has become so familiar even the voters are getting sick of it.
Aren't they?
I hear a whole lot of tough talk here...
ReplyDeleteHow many of you have called or emailed your Donkey senators demanding a vote on the censure resolution?
Bart,
ReplyDeleteYou write some good words but it took you only a few short posts to expose yourself for the ridiculous bush appologist you are:
"What kind of party calls their commander in chief a criminal during a war because he spied on the enemy making calls into the United States without the approval of a judge?"
That line of crap will not fly with us here. That is not what happened and we all know it. He spied on Americans WITHOUT A WARENT! Spy on foreigners all you want. Hell, spy on Americans if you want to just GET A FREAKIN' COURT ORDER! He did not and that is the issue. As it was said to you eariler, this is not a wingnut site. You were doing ok until you forgot where you were posting. Now you have no credibility. Oops.
kovie said...
ReplyDeleteYou're really on a roll here, Bart: Many in the country are longing to see a Donkey Party with a backbone on national defense.
No argument here. You mean like the party of FDR, Truman and JFK?
Bingo.
The same people, though, are also looking for a GOP that actually knows what it's doing when it comes to national defense--or even genuinely gives a damn about it. Surely you're not saying that Georgie and his tax cut and port and chemical and nuclear reactor insecurity during wartime friends are actually strong on national defense? Please, I'm still laughing...and crying.
After Vietnam, the GOP has won the presidency routinely during the Cold War and now during the our war with Islamic fascism. That is all the evidence I need concerning the faith of the American people in the competence of the GOP on national security matters.
Bart: What kind of party calls their commander in chief a criminal during a war because he spied on the enemy making calls into the United States without the approval of a judge?
The kind that sees him for what he actually is, a criminal and hypocrite who broke the law in spectacular and dangerous fashion and in so doing spit on the very constitution and democracy that he continually claims to be defending.
If you truly believe this, support the Feingold resolution and let's make this election a referendum on Mr. Bush's direction and conduct of the NSA Program.
And am I correct in deducing that you consider this constitution to be optional during "wartime"
Hardly. I have stated why I believe that your position concerning FISA is contrary to the Constitution.
Once again, I am more than willing to have this debate. I am so completely convinced in my case and the outcome of the vote that I have written my Dem senator to tell him to stop his obstruction of a vote on the Feingold censure resolution.
Before you post another message to me, you need to write Kennedy and Kerry to demand that they support a vote.
You don't even have to get into the details to see the most egregious logical error in Clift's sorry excuse for an argument. If Feingold's motivation is political opportunism to boost his stock for a 2008 presidential run, how can it possibly help him to be the leader on something she says will be a disaster for the Democrats?
ReplyDeleteEither it'll boost Bush and be bad for the Dems, or it'll be to Feingold's gain. It can't be both.
Like most arguments based on Rovian "conventional wisdom," it's complete BS if you put even a little thought into it.
I agree with everything Glenn said about Clift's screed, but I don't agree with the motives ascribed to her by some of the commenters.
ReplyDeleteI don't question Clift's motives. I just think she has an inability to critically think about anything. She sees and speaks to the same insular class of people -- and in that small group of people, most of Karl Rove's memes about Democrats are conventional wisdom. That's what she hears, that's what she's exposed to, so that's what she writes.
Clift isn't unique in any way. Most of the national media pundit class does no different - they just echo what they are hearing in the same tiny, narrow, myopic circles. The "liberal" ones give it a slightly liberal whiff and the "conservative" ones give it a pro-Bush whiff, but they are all drinking from the same well and spitting out what they hear.
But, Washington DC is controlled by Bush Republicans and has been for several years now. Status quo-perpetuating insiders always worship power (in part because they need to be close to it), so what predominates in those circles is the Republican mindset, so that's what we hear from insider pundits of every stripe, including the "liberal" ones like Clift.
Bart, you made me laugh out loud when you said:
ReplyDelete2004 was a referendum about Bush as a war leader.
Dream on (and I'd really like to know what geographic area you live in). Maybe that's how you voted, but I know of no one else (and I mean no one) who used that particular calculus in choosing which lever to press.
I had dozens of conversations with friends and relatives and the debate always revolved around a complex set of issues. Even my friends on the right viewed Bush as borderline incompetent. In the end, it was just like every other election in recent history. "Which one of these bozos do I dislike less".
And this statement:
What kind of party calls their commander in chief a criminal during a war because he spied on the enemy making calls into the United States without the approval of a judge?
has already been debunked as the cheapest kind of intellectual dishonesty. As an anonymous poster said above, you can't pull that kind of cheap stunt on this blog.
Every Democratic Senator and (8 Republican Senators) just voted to keep stealing money from The Social Security Trust Fund. These Senators are so hypocritical that they are starting to remind me of Mark Souder; that is especially true of John Kerry...
ReplyDeleteBoth Senators from Indiana voted to keep stealing money from future generations. That is shameful and they should both be thrown out of office.
For decades both The Democrats and The Republicans have been robbing the Social Security Trust Fund. The Social Security Trust Fund is currently getting about 300 Billion extra dollars per year. The Republicans and Democrats have stolen ALL OF THIS MONEY and left IOU's in the Social Security Trust Fund. This is criminal. If corporate America did this our Federal Government would arrest them and throw them in jail...
Do you know why they keep stealing it?
So they can spend it on other programs and so that the Federal Deficit does not look as large. If you include the money The Federal Government will steal from The Social Security Trust Fund, so called "Emergency" appropriations for things that are not emergencies, and the money the Federal Government is budgeted to spend through the normal budget process the Federal Budget Deficit this year is ABOUT 700 Billion dollars.
Do you know why they keep reporting a budget deficit of about 400 billion dollars?
They do not count the money they steal from The Social Security Trust Fund and leave an IOU for...
Where do they think the money will come from to pay The Baby Boomers when they retire you ask?
They do not care. They will not be in office and it is not their problem... Their only intention is to get re-elected. They do NOT care about the future of this Country.
I am extremely irritated at every Democratic Senator in office and the eight "So called Republicans" who voted to keeping stealing from The Social Security Trust Fund. Evan Bayh and Richard Luger are my Senators and they just voted to continue robbing The Social Security Trust Fund...
None of these Senators can be called a fiscal conservative. It is NOT fiscally conservative to rob future generations to pay for Government spending today...
Another thing that makes me angry is all of the time and energy The Democratic Party has put into talking about saving Social Security in the last few years. I can remember both Al Gore and John Kerry on their high horses when they were running for President promising to save Social Security and setup a "lockbox."
Every Democratic Senator voted against the "lockbox" on March 16th, 2006. John Kerry voted against it after campaigning on saving Social Security when he ran for President; what a hypocrite (Otherwise known as a Mark Souder).
Mike Sylvester
I have always admired Clift's performance on MG, but can't say that I've ever come across her written work. This aspect of her reasoning really surprises me. It's one thing to say Feingold wasn't being a team player, a logical argument with dubious evidence, but where does she get off claiming this a victory for Republicans? We hate what we don't understand, and right now I'm despising Clift.
ReplyDeletebart said:
ReplyDelete"However, we were at war and Bush is an uncompromising war leader. The thought of Kerry as CiC during a time of war scared the hell out of me."
Please continue being our resident distraction, you're even easier to see through than a lot of them. Plus you're a coward, and everyone likes beating up on cowards. Personally, it makes me warm inside to think of you shitting your pants over an invisible bogeyman while we all shake our heads and try not to laugh too hard.
Glenn said...
ReplyDelete"I don't question Clift's motives. I just think she has an inability to critically think about anything. She sees and speaks to the same insular class of people -- and in that small group of people, most of Karl Rove's memes about Democrats are conventional wisdom. That's what she hears, that's what she's exposed to, so that's what she writes."
It seems so obvious that Rove's strategies for manipulating the media and public opinion are meticulously planned. Has anyone ever come across memos or something like that which would give insight into how they pull it off? Like a neo-con strategy guide, if you will.
I'm very interested to know what some of this conventional wisdom may be, as it could help me to further understand how the theater show that is our media actually works.
OT aside: Glenn, do you really believe that people in the media who are aiding the neocons do so out of laziness or incompetence? It seems much more likely to me that they know exactly what they are doing and deem it necessary for their shared interests. If anything, I would guess that they are motivated by fear. A bit of stretch, I know, but have you ever thought of the fact that we would have no awareness of media censorship or threats to reporters because most people get all of their information from that same media. Pure conjecture of course, but I wouldn't be surpised at all if it was true.
So this time, did I beat you or did you beat me? I'd like to think I got first in line just once for a change...
ReplyDeleteBut at least the Newsweek site is showing my blog, including the word "bullpuckey"!
What has the GOP got going for it of late? Huh, say what? So they think the Feingold censure proposal is going to pull their nuts out of the fire? I think they're as deluded on this as they've been on the competency of the Bush administration. Who the hell cares how it plays to their base? Their base is down to its core, hanging by its fingernails and hoping a miracle is going to revive it. They'll grab at anything floating by. Only thing is, the deserters are not the stupefied-by-9/11, save-our-souls crowd they once were. They've seen the Bush gang in action, and now they're fanning their noses too.
ReplyDeleteAs for the Dems, I'm with Mike Lukovich:
ReplyDeleteOT aside: Glenn, do you really believe that people in the media who are aiding the neocons do so out of laziness or incompetence?
Glenn is well aware that his opponents are deadly serious and formidable, and that they will prevail in the long run.
This blog is an exercise in childish vanity, which Glenn will tire of sooner than later.
Ballgame--I've heard that called the Third Party Principle. What controls political outcomes is not "what I think" but "what I think everyone else thinks" about an issue.
ReplyDeleteWe are at the mercy of the media's control over the perception of "what everyone else thinks."
BTW, has Richard Cohen told us what a great gift to the GOP Feingold's resolution is yet? It's his turn isn't it?
ReplyDeleteAre Democrats really this big a bunch of suckers? How can politicians be so unsavvy?
ReplyDeleteWhen the opposition tells you with a giggle and a wink to "watch out, you're walking straight into our trap!" shouldn't you take at least a few minutes to consider where they're coming from.
They may, just may, not have your best interest at heart.
Strangefate
"Are Democrats really this big a bunch of suckers? How can politicians be so unsavvy?"
ReplyDeleteSee, that's exactly what I've been thinking. Politicians just can't be so very incompetent and/or ineffectual, especially when it's supposedly very much against their own interests to do so. What is really holding them back?
"Glenn is well aware that his opponents are deadly serious and formidable, and that they will prevail in the long run.
This blog is an exercise in childish vanity, which Glenn will tire of sooner than later."
How stupid and pointless.
Bart said:
ReplyDelete"After Vietnam, the GOP has won the presidency routinely during the Cold War and now during the our war with Islamic fascism. That is all the evidence I need concerning the faith of the American people in the competence of the GOP on national security matters."
What is the discaimer put out by most investment houses when they strut about past performance? That past performance is no guarantee of future gain.
I think that is the case here.
Carter was undoubtedly a wuss of the worst magnitude.
Reagan restored national dignity and was the right person for the time.
Bush I was competent in foreign policy but was inept on the domestic side.
Clinton will at some point in history be known as the biggest con artist the world has ever known. Anyone that can sell a whole country down the river and remain popular has got to be good.
Bush II is incompetent in both foreign and domestic policy.
Bart said:
"However, we were at war and Bush is an uncompromising war leader."
An uncompromising war leader?
Are you talking about his apology to the Chinese for our lumbering four engine turboprop electronic surveilance plane in international waters knocking their mach 2 fighter jet out of the sky? The apology he said he'd never make.
Or mabe you are referring to his freeze up at the school and disappearance for the day on 9/11
Or mabe it was his pulling of troops out of Afghanistan at the exact moment we had Bin Laden wounded and cornered, the man that was actually responsible for killing 3000 Americans on 9/11, to go fight a war of choice against a nation that was no threat and had done us no harm.
Mabe it's because Bush has created more terrorists with his little failing adventure in Iraq than Osama Bin Laden could have ever have hoped to on his own.
But then again mabe it was his support of selling operation of six major U.S. ports to a country that supplied two of the terrorists and the financial backing for the 9/11 attack.
Or mabe it's because under Bush's "leadership" less than 4% of all containers entering the U.S. are inspected.
Or just possibly it's because under Bush we have a wide open southern border that an estimated three million people cross every year. Nobody knows who they are, where they are going, or what they are doing. What are the odds that one day one of them will have a small suitcase with a nuclear, biological, or chemical weapon inside. I'd say that's like playing Russian roulette with all six cylinders full.
Bush an uncompromising war leader, more like an uncompromising idiot IMO.
The only thing Bush is uncompromizing about is his belief in his authority to violate most of the Bill of Rights in his quest for uncompromising power.
Gris Lobo said...
ReplyDeleteBart said: "However, we were at war and Bush is an uncompromising war leader."
An uncompromising war leader?
Is there an echo in here?
Or mabe you are referring to his freeze up at the school and disappearance for the day on 9/11
You watched one too many Michael Moore propaganda pieces. I believe that bin Laden also made this argument on video tape from whatever cave in which he is hiding. In both cases, the slander rings pretty hollow.
Or mabe it was his pulling of troops out of Afghanistan at the exact moment we had Bin Laden wounded and cornered, the man that was actually responsible for killing 3000 Americans on 9/11, to go fight a war of choice against a nation that was no threat and had done us no harm.
Please. It would be a very large surprise to all of our troops and those of NATO serving in Afghanistan that they have been pulled out. Moreover, it would come as a shock to all of those al Qaeda killed and captured in Afghanistan and Pakistan over the past four years that they have been let free to roam as they may.
As for Iraq, I have no doubt whatsoever that a President Kerry would have cut and run from our fight with al Qaeda in Iraq within 6 months of being elected, causing every terrorist to celebrate as they did when Clinton cut and run from Somalia.
Mabe it's because Bush has created more terrorists with his little failing adventure in Iraq than Osama Bin Laden could have ever have hoped to on his own.
I keep hearing this claim. Where are all these new terrorists? They surely are not attacking Americans all over the world and in the US as they were before 9/11.
But then again mabe it was his support of selling operation of six major U.S. ports to a country that supplied two of the terrorists and the financial backing for the 9/11 attack.
Not bad. You managed to slander the US and all Arabs in one sentence.
1) US customs and coast guard control our ports - period. Dubai Ports would have managed the unloading of containers. Are you implying that they would have stood down in those ports?
2) al Qaeda also recruited American citizens, used American banks to move money, used American flight schools to train their pilots and flew American aircraft on 9/11. Under your logic, that would preclude American companies from operating our ports.
Or mabe it's because under Bush's "leadership" less than 4% of all containers entering the U.S. are inspected.
Or just possibly it's because under Bush we have a wide open southern border that an estimated three million people cross every year. Nobody knows who they are, where they are going, or what they are doing. What are the odds that one day one of them will have a small suitcase with a nuclear, biological, or chemical weapon inside. I'd say that's like playing Russian roulette with all six cylinders full.
We import billions of tons of goods each year. It is impossible to inspect it all.
Our border is hundreds of miles long and cannot be physically defended.
That is why it is critical that we maintain the offensive to proactively take down the enemy.
That is why it is critical that we use every means to gather intelligence on the enemy.
Attempting to defend the country by erecting walls and cowering behind them will be about as effective building the Maginot Line was in defending France from Germany.
Because he refuses to surrender this nation's weapons of war to appease naysayers such as yourself, even at the cost of his personal popularity, Mr. Bush is an uncompromising war leader.
Bart:
ReplyDeleteYou should look up the definition of slander before using it incorrectly so often. It makes you look like you don't know what you are talking about.
""You watched one too many Michael Moore propaganda pieces. I believe that bin Laden also made this argument on video tape from whatever cave in which he is hiding. In both cases, the slander rings pretty hollow.""
Are you saying that Michael Moores video is a fake? Do you have a tape of Bush addressing the nation in a time of confusion and national crisis during the day on 9/11?
""Please. It would be a very large surprise to all of our troops and those of NATO serving in Afghanistan that they have been pulled out.""
Mabe you missed the interviews with the CIA chief on the ground in Afghanistan that said just that. Are you calling him a liar Bart?
""As for Iraq, I have no doubt whatsoever that a President Kerry would have cut and run from our fight with al Qaeda in Iraq within 6 months of being elected""
How can one person be so wrong so often? Most of the resistance in Iraq are Sunni Muslims not happy because they are no longer in power. I will grant you that there some Al Qaida there but that is not the main force we are fighting. AS for Kerry cutting and running, I don't think he ever said anything about cutting and running. Have you become a psychic? Personally as a combat veteran myself I agree with Jack Murtha that we should not be there. Another plan that has been mis- characterized as cutting and running when in fact what he said was to deploy over the horizen where our guys would be close by in case of major action, but would be out of site and would no longer be targets.
""I keep hearing this claim. Where are all these new terrorists? They surely are not attacking Americans all over the world and in the US as they were before 9/11.""
They are receiving valuble training in Iraq of course. And again with an open southern border how do you know they aren't in the U.S.? Getting all pschic again?
Not attacking Americans all ove the world? Please. There were 4 major attacks in ten years against Americans. The trade towers twice, one of which was foiled, the other the largest attack against the U.S. ever. The embassys in Africa and the U.S.S. Cole. While we certainly were attacked it is hardly like we were under siege. Of course if you are trying to sell fear.....
""Not bad. You managed to slander the US and all Arabs in one sentence.""
There is your misuse of the term slander again. And saying that a country was the source of two of the 9/11 hijackers and financing for 9/11 is simply true, hardly a ding on all Arabs. Unless of course you believe that all Arabs live in the UAE. You should take some geography lessons if you believe that.
""US customs and coast guard control our ports - period. Dubai Ports would have managed the unloading of containers. Are you implying that they would have stood down in those ports?""
Again you show your ignorance Bart. The Coast Guard patrols the harbors. But the shipping company is tasked with hiring and providing yard security where the containers are stored prior to pick up for distribution.
""al Qaeda also recruited American citizens, used American banks to move money, used American flight schools to train their pilots and flew American aircraft on 9/11. Under your logic, that would preclude American companies from operating our ports.""
A failure of our immigration system does not constitute a condemnation of American companys. Mabe if we weren't spending hundreds of billions of dollars fighting a losing war of choice in Iraq we might have the money to update and upgrade the systems and computers at our embassys that would have prevented them from entering the country in the first place.
""We import billions of tons of goods each year. It is impossible to inspect it all.""
Of course it's impossible, but again if we weren't fighting the war in Iraq we could allocate more resources to the task. and mabe if our politicians hadn't given away our manufacturing capacity mabe we wouldn't have to import so much to begin with.
""Our border is hundreds of miles long and cannot be physically defended.""
BS. We just don't have politicians willing to spend the resources to do it. Just as an example a double fence the length of the border would cost 20 billion dollars. A real bargain compared to the 300 billion we have spent in Iraq so far.
""Attempting to defend the country by erecting walls and cowering behind them will be about as effective building the Maginot Line was in defending France from Germany.""
Cowering, that's a good one Bart. Defending your borders from unarmed (for the most part) people trying to enter your country illegally is hardly comparable to defending your borders against a well armed well trained army. A country that refuses to defend it's borders is soon no longer a country.
""Because he refuses to surrender this nation's weapons of war to appease naysayers such as yourself, even at the cost of his personal popularity, Mr. Bush is an uncompromising war leader.""
LOL. How do you figure I've advocated giving up any weapons? I've advocated strengthening our ports, our borders, our immigration system, and deploying our tropps over the horizen from a failed war that has done nothing to enhance our security so that our men won't be riding around with targets on their backs.
I was all ready to demand my congressperson support the censure resolution, but after reading Bart's exhortation to get us to do just that, it's made me rethink the whole idea. If Bart wants us to back censure, it must mean it will secretly backfire on us. So now I won't play along. If Bart is that emphatic about urging us to get onboard with Feingold, it must mean he knows it will play into Republican hands, and we'll end up regreting it.
ReplyDeleteThat Bart is such a crafty thinker. There's no way I'm going to do what I first thought was a good idea. Instead I'm going to urge my congressperson to denounce Feingold. So there! Take that Bart. You're not gonna get me to help Democrats shoot ourselves in the foot again. I'm on to you Bart. Whatever you think dems should do, we obviously should do just the opposite. You're a perfect reverse barometer, and your activity here on this blog will help foil our whole agenda. You're just trying to trick us into doing things that will hurt us, and help Bush.
Obviously what Dems should do is continue to listen to those advisors who know the best path is the one of least resistance. Don't rock the boat. Don't make demands that will upset things. Just keep playing along and wait for Americans to realize on their own that Bush is breaking the law. Then the folks will act as one and Dems will finally reap the rewards of their milquetoast approach. That scares you to death, doesn't it Bart. You're so afraid we'll learn to let Bush do whatever he wants until he goes too far and then Republicans will pay at the ballotbox.
That's the way to play it folks. Don't let Bart fool you into taking any action. Bart knows taking a stand turns the electorate off. They prefer politicians who sit back and wait for things to play out. Politicians who take firm moral positions have never been popular in America. Especially during war time. During war time Americans will always stand by their leader, even if he has to break all the laws the country is founded on to protect us from the constant barrage of violence aimed at us. Don't let the fact that its been 5 years since the single act of war that started this whole thing fool you into thinking we're not just as 'at war" as the Brits in WWII. They went ahead with their lives under constant bombing by Nazi Germany. They would understand exactly what we're suffering here. Now war is on our doorstep. When a nation comes under attack like we are, it's not the time to question our leadership. Bush is just trying to make it possible for us to go about our lives, even as the constant bombardment continues. Like the folks at FOX News keep saying, we're a nation at war, and only people who've suffered like we are now suffering know how important it is to remain loyal to the govt until they finally beat the enemy into submission.
It won't aleways be like this. Some day this war will end, and life in America will resume. It may take decades, but when we finally kill every single terrorist, then we'll have the luxury of questioning our President. But for now, while the danger of death is so high, we should just do as we're told and trust Bush to not abuse the power he's taken to break the law. He would never break the law in a way that would hurt us. This whole pseudo-scandal is just the enemy within, trying to treasonously foment discord. Listen to Bart. He has our best interest in mind when he urges us to stand by our Fearless Leader.
I salute you Bart. You're right up there with Karl Rove in your political genius. No wonder things are going so well for Bush. This whole anti-Bush thing is just going to backfire on us, and Bush will continue to gain more and more support from average Americans. Darn you for being so clever.
Bart posted: What kind of party calls their commander in chief a criminal during a war because he spied on the enemy making calls into the United States without the approval of a judge?
ReplyDeleteThen Kovie posted: The kind that sees him for what he actually is, a criminal and hypocrite who broke the law in spectacular and dangerous fashion and in so doing spit on the very constitution and democracy that he continually claims to be defending.
Kovie, good catch, but you left something out. Bushie isn't "our commander in chief." By virtue of his office he's c-in-c of the armed forces -- not of all citizens. We are not living under Fearless Leader, Bart, no matter how much you and the other rightwingers would like to.
You guys, we need to reframe this issue to win it. George Lakoff talks about the importance of reframing in his book DON'T THINK OF A PINK ELEPHANT.
ReplyDeleteJeffrey Feldman in his 2/11/06 blog at http://www.frameshopisopen.com/ came up with some very pertinent stategic reframes for regaining control of the NSA scandal and effectively framing this issue for the masses:
metaphor:
DOMESTIC SPYING IS FISHING
expand metaphor:
"blindly casting his net"
"an illegal fishing expedition"
"innocent people tangled in illegal searches"
"threw whatever they found into a bucket"
In Feldman's own words, "Not only did President Bush violate the rights of every American with his domestic spying fishing expedition, but by blindly casting his net in random directions, the President has not brought us any closer to securing the country from attack."
I have long maintained that there is a simple system for generating the Beltway Democrat view on any controversy: simply imagine what they would say if they were a bunch if unprincipled cowards and there you have it!
ReplyDeleteGris Lobo said...
ReplyDeleteBart:
You should look up the definition of slander before using it incorrectly so often. It makes you look like you don't know what you are talking about.
I am using Slander to mean both verbal and written (normally libel) false false defamation which injures the character or reputation of the person defamed.
Bart: "You watched one too many Michael Moore propaganda pieces. I believe that bin Laden also made this argument on video tape from whatever cave in which he is hiding. In both cases, the slander rings pretty hollow.""
Are you saying that Michael Moores video is a fake?
Mr. Moore showed a tape of Mr. Bush reading a book to an elementary school class after he had been first informed of the attack. That much is true. The defamation was Moore's unfounded claim that this tape show's Mr. Bush to be panic stricken.
Bart: "Please. It would be a very large surprise to all of our troops and those of NATO serving in Afghanistan that they have been pulled out.""
Mabe you missed the interviews with the CIA chief on the ground in Afghanistan that said just that. Are you calling him a liar Bart?
Provide me with a link and a quote. I am not going on a snipe hunt with you.
Bart: "As for Iraq, I have no doubt whatsoever that a President Kerry would have cut and run from our fight with al Qaeda in Iraq within 6 months of being elected""
AS for Kerry cutting and running, I don't think he ever said anything about cutting and running. Have you become a psychic?
Kerry tacks with the polls.
When he thought that it would get him elected President, Kerry supported ousting Saddam with speeches far more hawkish than Mr. Bush or anything Kerry himself had said before.
When the Dem base went for Dean's anti-war spiel, Kerry shifted 180 almost overnight and became a born again Dove.
Once he had won the nomination, Kerry then tried to have it both ways. "I voted for the $80 billion before I voted against it."
If Kerry had won, he could safely have ignored the center again and given his base what they wanted - an ignominious retreat and defeat from Iraq.
Personally as a combat veteran myself I agree with Jack Murtha that we should not be there. Another plan that has been mis- characterized as cutting and running when in fact what he said was to deploy over the horizen where our guys would be close by in case of major action, but would be out of site and would no longer be targets.
No, cutting and running is the correct term. The enemy is in Iraq, not Kuwait.
After cutting and running to Kuwait, the chances that the Dems would support going back into Iraq "in case of major action" is about the same as the Dems in 1975 going back into SV to stop the NVA invasion.
Bart: "I keep hearing this claim. Where are all these new terrorists? They surely are not attacking Americans all over the world and in the US as they were before 9/11.""
They are receiving valuble training in Iraq of course.
How exactly do suicide bombers "receive valuable training?" Al Qaeda is not doing much of anything else.
And again with an open southern border how do you know they aren't in the U.S.?
al Qaeda very likely does have people in the US. The WP has reported that the NSA Program develops probable cause for FISA warrants against 10 new suspected al Qaeda agents each year.
Moreover, we keep busting al Qaeda cells in the US.
Rather, the question needs to be whether our intelligence and preemptive military action in al Qaeda's home countries is preventing attacks.
So far so good...
No attacks against US interests in the US or anywhere else outside of the ME since 9/11.
Not attacking Americans all ove the world? Please. There were 4 major attacks in ten years against Americans. The trade towers twice, one of which was foiled, the other the largest attack against the U.S. ever. The embassys in Africa and the U.S.S. Cole. While we certainly were attacked it is hardly like we were under siege. Of course if you are trying to sell fear.....
OK, now you are saying we have nothing to worry about...
Make up your mind.
Bart: "Not bad. You managed to slander the US and all Arabs in one sentence.""
There is your misuse of the term slander again. And saying that a country was the source of two of the 9/11 hijackers and financing for 9/11 is simply true, hardly a ding on all Arabs.
No, saying that a world class shipping company is in bed with terrorists because they were UAE Arabs just like two of their countrymen is the worst kind of racist and xenophobic crap. This isn't partisan. The Elephants in my party were even worse.
Bart: "US customs and coast guard control our ports - period. Dubai Ports would have managed the unloading of containers. Are you implying that they would have stood down in those ports?""
Again you show your ignorance Bart. The Coast Guard patrols the harbors. But the shipping company is tasked with hiring and providing yard security where the containers are stored prior to pick up for distribution.
Please. You and I both know that the claim was that DPW was going to somehow aid and abet al Qaeda in smuggling in some sort of WMD like a nuke. Are you now claiming that al Qaeda already has a nuke in the US and is going to break into a container in the port to stage it. C'mon dude...
Mabe if we weren't spending hundreds of billions of dollars fighting a losing war of choice in Iraq we might have the money to update and upgrade the systems and computers at our embassys that would have prevented them from entering the country in the first place.
Nonsense. We have plenty of money for both. We spent far more of a much smaller GDP defeating Japan and Germany.