Monday, March 13, 2006

Sen. Feingold's censure resolution is moderate and reasonable

By Anonymous Liberal

On Sunday Senator Russ Feingold called for President Bush to be censured by Congress for authorizing extensive and ongoing violations of a criminal statute, FISA. There is nothing at all radical about Feingold's proposal. The administration has admitted that it circumvented FISA and there is broad agreement across party lines that the President did not have the authority to do so (hence, the move by Congressional Republicans to pass some sort of legislation making the President's actions legal, at least going forward).

Despite this broad bipartisan consensus, Feingold will undoubtedly be labeled as a rabid partisan by the GOP, someone "extreme" and "out-of-touch." And if history is any guide, this characterization will be reinforced by Feingold's Democratic colleagues who will immediately try to distance themselves from his proposal in order to be seen as "reasonable." On Sunday, Glenn did a great job describing this same phenomenon in the context of the relationship between the Democratic establishment and the blogosphere.

They [most Democrats politicians] don't want to go anywhere near the citizen activism in the blogosphere because Tim Russert and Chris Matthews will no longer think they're a moderate, serious, responsible Democrat, and Republicans might accuse them of being an extremist or a liberal. They'd prefer to avoid that disapproval even it means losing (as it usually does), than be criticized and win. The reason they run away from their own allies in the blogosphere is the same reason they so often run away from taking a real stand against the Bush Administration -- it's because they are petrified that the establishment media and even Republicans will criticize them as being too combative, too liberal, extremist, etc.

What Democratic politicians fail to understand--and this is particularly ironic given the Democratic party's historical association with the labor movement--is that this is fundamentally a collective action problem. The term "reasonable" has no objective meaning, at least in the realm of politics. Whether an idea is deemed "reasonable" has little to do with the merits of the idea and everything to do with the prevailing political climate as interpreted by our national media. GOP strategists like Karl Rove long ago realized that the national media will treat any talking point that is repeated by enough people as ipso facto "reasonable," and conversely, will treat any idea that is not repeated by a sufficient number of people as "unreasonable" or "extreme," no matter what its objective merits. It's a very crude calculus and one that is easily manipulated by shrewd partisans.

A textbook example of this phenomenon--if you'll pardon a brief digression--is the debate over the repeal of the Estate Tax. A decade ago, the idea of repealing the Estate Tax--a tax which applies only to the inherited wealth of the super-rich--was a complete and utter fantasy. Indeed, it's hard to imagine a proposal that, on its face, is more objectively unreasonable--from both a political and policy perspective--than repealing a tax which only affects the Paris Hiltons of the world. But through sheer collective will, the GOP came very close to doing just that this past year, and at a time of exploding deficits and a prolonged, expensive war. What Republican strategists have learned is that when a party speaks in unison, it has the power to define what is considered reasonable in the eyes of the national media, and in turn, the American public.

Democrats, however, cannot seem to internalize this idea. They approach politics as if the rules of reasonability and civil discourse are immutable or have been set by some neutral referee. When someone like Howard Dean steps over this arbitrary line, Democrats join the GOP in immediately calling "foul." When a Republican steps over the line, however, more often than not his Republican colleagues act collectively to move the line. Suddenly we find ourselves in a debate over whether outing a CIA agent is actually a good thing, or whether a law that has been on the books for three decades and repeatedly reaffirmed by this President should be violated. It doesn't matter what the consensus was five minutes ago. Talking points that would have seemed totally absurd days earlier suddenly become credible and reasonable, and for no other reason than they are being repeated by a chorus of Republican politicians, pundits, and bloggers. In this way, the definition of "reasonable" can be changed dramatically overnight.

Senator Feingold's call for Congressional censure is an eminently reasonable response to the NSA scandal by any objective measure. Just eight years ago, Congressional Republicans impeached a president for lying about a private consensual affair in the context of a frivolous civil suit which was financed and litigated by the president's enemies. We are now faced with a president who is engaged in ongoing violations of a criminal statute intended to protect the constitutional rights of the American people. There is agreement that extends well beyond party lines that the President does not have the constitutional or statutory authority to do what he is doing. This administration has repeatedly ignored, misled, and marginalized Congress. If such facts do not warrant censure, it's hard to know what does.

And as I've written in detail before, the Democrats have the law, the polls, and righteousness on their side. If they were to stand up as a party and support Feingold's motion for censure, they would have the full-throated support of virtually every left-leaning and centrist blogger, numerous prominent pundits and commentators, the majority of constitutional lawyers and legal professors, and a significant number of conservatives. In the face of such a chorus, the national media would be forced to cover Feingold's proposal as the reasonable, non-extreme measure that it is. For once, the Democratic party could show that it has a backbone and not allow the GOP to define the limits of reasonableness for them. If ever there was a time for collective action, it's now.

UPDATE (by Glenn): One of the problems which A.L. is referencing here is quite vividly illustrated by this article from The New York Times, which reports that Sen. Carl Levin, when asked about Feingold's resolution on CNN's Late Edition yesterday, said this:

"I think what the president did was wrong," Mr. Levin said. "But even though I think he was wrong, I would rather wait until the investigation is completed, which has now been started by the Intelligence Committee, before I go beyond that."

In fairness to Levin, it seems that Feingold told nobody about his Censure Resolution until he announced it with George Stephanopolous, and so Levin wasn't prepared to address it yesterday when he was asked about it. Still, Levin's response, which was both frightened and incoherent, illustrates a serious instinct problem which so many Democrats have (and, just incidentally, someone really ought to tell Sen. Levin that waiting "until the investigation [of the Senate Intelligence Committee] is completed" before deciding what to do is going to be a very long wait, since that Committee voted last week not to investigate).

Rather than use the opportunity he had to aggressively condemn the Bush Administration's law-breaking, Sen. Levin did the opposite: he mentioned just in passing -- in the most cursory, reluctant and obligatory manner possible -- that "what the president did was wrong," but then he devoted the bulk of his answer to fearfully warning that we shouldn't do anything about it, that we should wait, that we should think more about it, that we should just impotently and quietly stand by and remain cautious, stagnant, non-committal and unsure.

How is it even possible for a Democratic Senator to conclude that the President broke the law but then -- three full months after the law-breaking is revealed -- counsel that nothing should be done about it? That is the mentality we need to fight against in order to generate as much support as possible for Sen. Feingold's resolution.

UPDATE II: Sen. Feingold's office has posted the Censure Resolution on his site (.pdf).

71 comments:

  1. Anonymous9:45 AM

    We need to beat this drum every day. Good work Glenn & AL. Glenn - any chance you can work with Feingold on this? I think coordination with him and blogs would be VERY powerful.

    ReplyDelete
  2. Anonymous10:20 AM

    The Democrats really do need to find a voice and take a stand.

    Right now and for some time they have seemed to be much more concerned with preserving their job and status more than they are concerned with voicing the views and addressing the needs of the people who sent them to represent them, and who pay their salaries.

    The only reasonable conclusion is that the system is broken. The two party system has in fact become a defacto one party rule. Republicans, and Republican Lights that are too afraid to voice any real opposition for fear of losing their jobs.

    What has brought us to this point? IMO it is that the two parties differ on only the fringe issues. The two major issues that affect the well being of our country (besides the issue of an out of control President, which is yet another symptom of defacto one party rule) are the interlocking issues of trade and the economy which have found the Republicans and the Democrats in virtual lockstep since NAFTA was passed in 1994.

    ReplyDelete
  3. What Republican strategists have learned is that when a party speaks in unison, it has the power to define what is considered reasonable in the eyes of the national media, and in turn, the American public.

    That’s certainly true, but it goes even farther than that under Rove Republicans – they believe that even if something is patently false, if they repeated it LOUDLY enough and enough times, that it will become a ‘fact’. And it has worked.

    Democrats, however, cannot seem to internalize this idea. They approach politics as if the rules of reasonability and civil discourse are immutable or have been set by some neutral referee.

    What Democrats have internalized is the ability of Rove (and a unified Republican Party and media) to make something false become true, and therefore, they’ve been intimidated. Feingold is one of the few who hasn’t been.

    What Democrats need to internalize is that “civil discourse” is no longer possible with Rovians who attempt to demonize them at every turn.

    Rove re-reads Machiavelli every year, and he’s downloaded Orwell’s 1984 into his Blackberry under his “to do” list. Democrats need to internalize they if there were rules, these guys don’t play by them

    This is all about setting an agenda, framing an issue, and getting on offense. It is about finding a spine – and it’s imperative that Feingold have a lot of company on this very reasonable issue.

    ReplyDelete
  4. Anonymous Liberal puts the matter very clearly. I wonder why the Dems are so reluctant to go along with the notion of party unity. This is the perfect time for it. With most Democratic issues marginalized, why hold out for some pet principle to be upheld? Surely it would be worth a few compromises to change the composition of the Congress later this year!

    ReplyDelete
  5. I apologize for repeating myself, but I do want make a point about expectations for some kind of success in the "political sphere" versus the more likely success in the "judicial sphere". I did post the following this morning, but I posted it in the previous day's comments.

    I hope you'll forgive the repost, but I'm going to do it anyways :-)

    Glenn,

    As much as I highly respect the "principled" stand taken by Senator Russ Feingold, I'm less than sanguine about its consequences. If folks expect some type of concrete result other than keeping the controversy in the public eye, I believe they’ll be disappointed.

    Sometimes I'm amazed that folks are still arguing about this controversy.

    While many have hoped that the "political sphere" would correct this problem, my belief was that it would never happen. Politicians by their nature swing with the breeze. One should expect no less...after all, they're POLITICIANS! Politicians belong to "parties". And their first loyalty is of course to "The Party"! All else is secondary...including "principles"! Please don't confuse a "politician" with a "statesman".

    I've always believed that the "only" sphere where this controversy would be dealt with was the "judicial sphere". My reasoning is simply that a law was and is being broken, and broken laws are dealt with in court.

    The opposition continually states that no law has been broken, citing this and that "specious" reasoning (Article II, AUMF, etc.). They are simply wrong! Too many lose site of the basic inarguable facts, so here's a brief summary:

    Fact #1: There is a law that states all domestic communications intercepts must be approved by a judge (i.e. a warrant authorized by the FISA court).

    Fact #2: Bush has publicly and repeatedly stated that communications between folks overseas and folks here in the US are being intercepted.

    Fact #3: Gonzales has stated publicly and repeatedly that these communication intercepts are NOT approved by a judge (no warrants via the FISA court).

    Fact #4: Since Fact #1 is not being followed, the administration has indeed "broken" the law.

    Glenn, as you are an attorney, I would really appreciate it if you would sometime in the future (perhaps the very near future) help us by detailing some of the legal tactics that could be used to get this criminal behavior before a court.

    In particular, I’d love to see a detailed brief on how someone like Senator Russ Feingold (and other Senators) could bring this issue to court by claiming a criminal violation of the National Security Act of 1947.

    Specifically, the following section:

    REPORTING OF INTELLIGENCE ACTIVITIES OTHER THAN COVERT ACTIONS
    SEC. 502. [50 U.S.C. 413a] To the extent consistent with due regard for the protection from unauthorized disclosure of classified information relating to sensitive intelligence sources and methods or other exceptionally sensitive matters, the Director of Central Intelligence and the heads of all departments, agencies, and other entities of the United States Government involved in intelligence activities shall -
    (1) keep the congressional intelligence committees fully and currently informed of all intelligence activities, other than a covert action (as defined in section 503(e)), which are the responsibility of, are engaged in by, or are carried out for or on behalf of, any department, agency, or entity of the United States Government, including any significant anticipated intelligence activity and any significant intelligence failure; and
    (2) furnish the congressional intelligence committees any information or material concerning intelligence activities, other than covert actions, which is within their custody or control, and which is requested by either of the congressional intelligence committees in order to carry out its authorized responsibilities.

    ReplyDelete
  6. While many have hoped that the "political sphere" would correct this problem, my belief was that it would never happen. . . . .

    I've always believed that the "only" sphere where this controversy would be dealt with was the "judicial sphere". My reasoning is simply that a law was and is being broken, and broken laws are dealt with in court.


    How, then, do you explain Watergate? There were a couple of judicial rulings that forced some disclosures, but what transformed Richard Nixon from being a highly popular re-elected President to a disgraced criminal who had to resign was the collapse of public support for him.

    Our political institutions are moved by public opinion. Congress so vehemently opposed Bush on the Dubai deal due to one reason only - because public opinion demanded it. If public opinion is equally emphatic that it is intolerable in our country for the President to break the law - and the public is not that far away from that place - then the same thing will happen. I really don't know why so many people doubt that.

    ReplyDelete
  7. Anonymous10:44 AM

    Good work, Glenn. Tony at mtanga.com (who linked to your post) had an amusing, and accurate observation:

    "This is a very big deal, and irrespective of how it turns out, Feingold's guts, and his willingness to call a spade a fucking shovel, should be a wake-up call to sleepwalking Democrats everywhere."

    ReplyDelete
  8. Anonymous10:45 AM

    The near total lack of spine on the part of the Democratic Party is discouraging and incomprehensible. Fear seems to leave them frozen and speechless. As an example, a few months ago I called the office my senator, Jack Reed, and asked when he and the Dems were going to start speaking up. The aide replied that the senator had been. (Sorry, I disagree.) He then added that since the Dems did not have a majority, ultimately they were powerless. And that, as they say, said it all.

    ReplyDelete
  9. Glenn said:

    "How, then, do you explain Watergate?"

    Different times and different score :-).

    In the Watergate era, the Dems had control over both houses and could easily begin investigations, and in the case of the House, an impeachment proceeding.

    Now with Repugs in control of both houses, the Dems have little ability to "force" a political-sphere showdown.

    Don't get me wrong here Glenn, I would dearly love to see the Bush criminal cabal brought to justice. I'm just saying that the chances are better in the "judicial sphere" than they are in the "politcal sphere".

    In addition, don't get me wrong about beating the "politcal sphere" drum ala Senator Feingold's Censure motion. Absolutely approve of it!

    I'm just saying it that a wise person would take advantage of "all" avenues, and that the "judicial sphere" seems to be at very low ebb.

    Senators DO have standing as the "injured party" vis a vis the NSA Act of 1947, and I'm surprised that none have taken judicial advantage of it.

    As you're an attorney, I'd be very surprised if you insisted that your clients "only" conduct their case in the political sphere and almost totally neglect the courtroom options.

    Does this make enough sense? :-)

    ReplyDelete
  10. "When someone like Howard Dean steps over this arbitrary line, Democrats join the GOP in immediately calling "foul." When a Republican steps over the line, however, more often than not his Republican colleagues act collectively to move the line."

    Excellently put.

    Jeff

    ReplyDelete
  11. Anonymous11:29 AM

    Look for Joementum to be the first Dem to denounce Feingold and reassert his support for Bush's illegal spying program.

    ReplyDelete
  12. Anonymous11:41 AM

    I was a resident of the Dairy State when Feingold was elected to the WI state senate in, I believe, 1982. He was known as a liberal Democrat, but more so as a staunch supporter of ethics and opposition to corruption.

    A good friend of mine -- who virtually always voted GOP and who was not Feingold's constituent -- contacted him and received a lot of help from him regarding a corruption problem that didn't implicate partisan politics. If there is any Democrat she'd vote for for President, it would be Russ Feingold. He really is a man of principle.

    ReplyDelete
  13. Anonymous12:01 PM

    Mad Dog: What katherine said. Standing is a serious barrier to any successful civil litigation regarding the NSA illegalities, and I mulled it over here months ago, asking Glenn if he could figure out who might have it -- he said it was a good question that he couldn't immediately think of an answer to. I perused a few legal blogs, like Volokh, and observed a lot of smart lawyers struggling with that question.

    In any event, judicial challenges have been considered, and as Katherine notes, some are in the pipline but may well be dismissed. The Electronic Privacy Information Center has sued under FOIA for all docs relating to the illegal program and who it has targeted, and last I monitored that suit (and Glenn posted about this)a federal district judge had ordered the DoJ to expeditiously produce the docs or set forth a list of what they were not producing with various grounds of privilege or reasons of national security set forth.

    But with appeals, possible stays & etc., it is hard to say when that suit will yield meaningful results of EPIC's FOIA request.

    In sum: the judicial route has been well-considered, including here. In the meantime, efforts such as Feingold's are certainly more than worth rallying around.

    ReplyDelete
  14. Anonymous12:08 PM

    After observing the progress of the Rovian Darkness for over 5 years, I am becoming convinced that there really is no point in writing letters and calling senators and congresspeople who are already in chains. They can't help America. They can't help themselves. Congress has failed. The courts will never act in time. There is only one action that will change our rush toward nationalist totalitarianism: The people, by the MILLIONS, must march in the streets! It worked in 1968. I saw it. Anyone who wants to save this country should be devoting all their energies to promoting mass demonstrations. Anything else is temporizing.

    ReplyDelete
  15. Anonymous12:15 PM

    No wonder Frist is saying that Feingold is just helping [this week's enemy].

    These people have one message: kneel before our failure or you're a traitor.

    It's time to take them out.
    .

    ReplyDelete
  16. Anonymous12:16 PM

    Can we talk about this as part of a "process" instead if an "end"?

    "Moderate and reasonable" are important - maybe this is the best we can do.

    In the process of building support for this move, are we beginning a process that could end with impeachment if more disturbing programs and facts are uncovered?

    Will this encourage people to more fully look into the crimes of this administration or will it provide an excuse for some to say, "We censured him, nothing to see here, move along now, nothing to see..."

    I don' know the answers here, grateful that one Senator is standing up.

    About the blogs helping? Fat chance, though I know many will proclaim this is "proof" that the blogs are more powerful than the democratic party blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah...

    Can the online community be of help without bringing in the discourse and intolerance that is common on many boards?

    That is an honest question that deserves discussion -- is the are "decorum" for how we build coalitions with people that support larger ideas but may not be ready to accept or agree on EVERYTHING some "superblogger" says?

    ReplyDelete
  17. Anonymous12:20 PM

    10 a.m. EST – Senate is called to order – Senate Chaplain Rear Admiral Barry Black offers morning prayer – Pledge of Allegiance. Frist opens the procedures with the Budget Resolution, asking for up to 50 hours of debate.

    Unfortunately, like many of you, I have to work and will not be able to watch the procedings. I have emailed every Democratic Senator to ask for their support of Senator Feingold's imminent call for the censure of President Bush, asked if he/she plans to support the censure and for their position on the issue. I have also called my own Senators here in RI.

    Of course, John Conyers, on the House side, has offered House Resolution 635, which calls for the selection of a special committee to investigate impeachable offenses, so I put my signature on that as well. These actions are cursory and minimal; I have emailed Lou Dobbs (whose position on the censure, let alone on the NSA scandal in general, is unknown) asking that he provide coverage of the debate. The point of all this is to ask that if you see merit in Senator Feingold’s censure, you take a moment to call your senators and representatives, send out some emails, and, if you’re a blogger, discuss the issue on your site and link to relevant articles and other bloggers who share your concerns.

    As Feingold said, “This President is breaking the law.”

    ReplyDelete
  18. Anonymous12:31 PM

    ATTENTION - There is one sicko loser who keeps coming and leaving comments on this blog with the same song and dance.

    Apparently, Jane at FDL blocked him out of comments there. As a result, he has developed this creepy, sick obsession with what he calls "super blogs" and spends his life like one of those fired workers who nurses a grudge forever in his tiny, dirty apartment against the people he thinks wronged him.

    He comes and says how blogs are useless and they aren't serious about action. He leaves 3 to 4 comments in each thread under "Anonymous" to make it look like he has imaginary friends who agree with him.

    That guy needs help. I bet he has pictures of Jane Hamsher in his apartment that he throws darts at. Please ignore him and pray he goes away and gets the help he so obviously needs. And Jane should consider a restraining order against this creep.

    ReplyDelete
  19. Anonymous12:32 PM

    A decade ago, the idea of repealing the Estate Tax--a tax which applies only to the inherited wealth of the super-rich--was a complete and utter fantasy.

    I cannot let this pass without comment, and am sorry you used it in your post, AL. The estate tax applies to estates over $1,000,000.
    It wasn't that long ago that it applied to all estates over $600,000.

    Perhaps to you only the "super-rich" and Paris Hilton have that much, but as the average two bedroom apartment in NYC now costs over $1,000,000 and people have a great deal of equity in their homes, combined with the fact that there are so many households where two people work, it is hardly Bill Gatesville to have an estate worth over $1,000,000 after a lifetime of working and saving.

    Moreover, the money that people earn while working is taxed when they earn it. The more they make, the higher their taxes, at a progressive rate. Why should it be taxed a second time at their deaths? Why shouldn't they be able to save and pass on to their children the fruits of their labor?

    Finally, the "super-rich" of whom you speak are not much affected by the estate tax anyway. They leave their money in trusts and charitable organizations and are thus able to pass it down from generation to generation through those entities as the Kennedys have done. It's the upper middle class who would benefit most by repealing the estate tax, many of whom don't use high cost tax lawyers to advise them on trusts and other ways to shield their estates from being taxed at death, including off-shore accounts.

    You obviously feel bitterness about the people who worked hard enough to earn high incomes, saved as opposed to squandered their money, and invested wisely in assets which appreciated in value.

    I am sorry you find it "presposterous" that a person objects to being taxed twice on the same money.

    It's also true that the bulk of money donated to hospitals, museums, and other entities with large budgets comes from the "super rich", much of it through estate bequests. If they didn't make those donations, the government would be kicking in those dollars.

    It appears you cannot take the "hate the rich" gene out of Democrats. And that is no doubt the single biggest reason why Republicans keep getting elected.

    Yet Democrats, for all their puffery, never advocate fiscal restraint or eliminating all the bloat from government, which probably consists of about half the national budget each year.

    Instead they resort to the same old solution to everything: soak the rich. Why not? They have nothing else to run on.

    I might add it's interesting that you chose as your example Paris Hilton, an untalented, unintelligent, unproductive person who made her money as an outgrowth of having made a porno tape instead of a Russ Feingold or a Jimmy Carter.

    Now, your post was about propaganda, right?

    ReplyDelete
  20. Anonymous12:55 PM

    Great post that goes to the heart of the overall "how do the Republicans get away with that?" matter but it begs the question, why? The democrats failure to coalesce or their seeming inability to form an effective, united front isn't simply for lack of organizational skill? (Is it?)

    What are the deeper issues going on? And how can they be corrected?

    ReplyDelete
  21. Anonymous12:57 PM

    Well, I hate to make a decision on a weekend, but when it’s time, it’s time. I see the errors of the Republicans. Been around a while and I think I understand that not voting for them is the only way to send them a message.
    I came to this site seeking wisdom that would guide me in backing suitable Democrats. Howard Dean might just be the right man for the job. What I have discovered here is that this site is a sort of weird “Bush Haters Anonymous” meeting. Someone comments by saying: “Hi, my name is Anonymous and I hate George Bush. I also hate everything connected to him.” However, instead of wanting to recover, they all want to learn new ways to feed their obsession!
    The people who inhabit this site will take no time from their fever swamp crusade to impeach the President to explain why someone like me should vote for a Democrat or Democrats in general. I must seek guidance elsewhere. I've had enough whacko BushHitler impeachment crap. I’ll check back in around the time the Senate vote on censure comes up. If I can wade through the saliva. Bye.

    ReplyDelete
  22. Anonymous1:00 PM

    I think the "calculus" the Dems have been working on is based on the Gaussian curve: there are more potential votes towards the middle than on the edges. Those on the progessive edge are taken for granted as Dem voters and are consequently ignored.
    What may be changing is that the middle of the curve is shifting more in "our" direction (dare not say leftward) as the calamities inflicted by the Bush administration are becoming more obvious to voters. The strategy of progressives should borrow from what has worked for the other side: drill, drill, drill; repeat, repeat, repeat. The mossbacks in Congress will eventually get the clue from their constituents that it's safe to talk about change. Hopefully.

    ReplyDelete
  23. I don't want to get sidetracked from the main issue here, but a quick to response to Eyes Wide Open:

    1) The Estate Tax currently applies to estates over $2 million (not $1 million) and it's scheduled to go up further.

    2) It applies to less that %1 of Americans, and then only after they are dead.

    3) If you read my post, I was referring to the proposal to repeal the Estate Tax altogether (which had significant GOP support). I'd actually be in favor of increasing the exemption to as high as 5 to 10 million if it was off-set by an increase in the rate for those above the cut-off.

    But all this is neither here nor there because I could have chosen any number of similar examples to illustrate my point.

    ReplyDelete
  24. Anonymous1:03 PM

    Feingold/Obama in '08!!!

    ReplyDelete
  25. Anonymous1:04 PM

    I'll let someone else argue the merits of the estate tax, but I can't let the "double taxation is wrong!" chestnut pass without comment. First of all, YOU are not taxed twice on the same money. YOU are, in fact, dead. Your HEIRS, who did not earn your money, are taxed on what is, to them, new income.

    Secondly, I love the whole framing of this issue as if estate tax money was somehow only taxed once in it's entire life as currency, and how dare we besmirch it with double taxation! Money is not taxed, people and transactions are. That same money was taxed when it was given to your employer, was taxed again when given to you in your paycheck, was taxed again when you made a profit investing it in the market, will be taxed when given to your heirs, etc. etc. It's all part of the Great Circle of Currency. Hakuna Matata.

    ReplyDelete
  26. Anonymous1:05 PM

    Feingold will get about as much support for this censure bill as he did for his failed crusade against the first Patriot Act.

    ReplyDelete
  27. The censure effort will fail. But it can make a big bang if the spotlight is glaring in the Senators' faces as they vote against censure.

    Everyone should be emailing the major news media to keep them honest in their reporting on Feingold's resolution. CNN's most recent report dwells on Feingold's motivations, thereby watering down the justness of this censure.

    People should point out that Feingold's resolution simply reflects the average American's sentiments, since a majority of citizens think the President's eavesdropping program is illegal. A majority also thinks that the President should be impeached.

    To email CNN, CBS, ABC, Fox, MSNBC etc., go to their webpage and find the link for their TV programs. Click on that and choose the programs you want to send emails to. I imagine most people will want to do this for every program today.

    ReplyDelete
  28. Bush has been lying and misgoverning for years, his poll numbers are in the cellar, they are in a minority party that needs to be establishing itself as the alternative, and they need to THINK about this? They should have been considering it years ago, and trampling over each other to stand alongside Feingold now. I know the Senate is supposed to be the "deliberative" body, but Levin's comment was just ridiculous. If we know what the President did was wrong, and we do, it's time to DO something about that. (It's not like they even need to worry that the darn thing will pass, for goodness sake.)

    ReplyDelete
  29. Anonymous1:58 PM

    Floyd R. Turbo said...
    Great post that goes to the heart of the overall "how do the Republicans get away with that?" matter but it begs the question, why? The democrats failure to coalesce or their seeming inability to form an effective, united front isn't simply for lack of organizational skill? (Is it?)

    What are the deeper issues going on? And how can they be corrected?


    Sorry, but it does go much deeper. No where is the blackout of reason more evident than in the issues surrounding Gitmo. Reference my post yesterday on the true situation there as covered by This American Life (NPR) in a program entitled: Habeas Shambeas.

    The United Nations, International Committee of the Red Cross and Amesty International has asked that Gitmo be closed as it is violation of international law and has been cited for multiple, I repeat multiple human rights problems. This is no where in the MSM.

    I watch BBC World News every morning. This was topic one on the BBC with a reporter talking about his conversation with Bolton over the weekend. The US now has zero credibility on the issue of human rights as a result of this problem. Bolton basically, as reported by the BBC, refused to even discuss Gitmo. Reporter's take: The US is hypocritical. Can't disagree with that assessment.

    ReplyDelete
  30. Anonymous2:10 PM

    I think a side by side comparison of responses is need just to make the point of A L's and Glenn's clear:

    I think what the president did was wrong," Mr. Levin said. "But even though I think he was wrong, I would rather wait until the investigation is completed,

    FRIST: Well, George, this is the first I’ve heard about it. I really am surprised about it because Russ is just wrong. He is flat wrong. He is dead wrong.

    What is there to say? You can't even excuse Levin for being unprepared.

    ReplyDelete
  31. Anonymous2:10 PM

    If Democratic politicians "fail to understand" basic realities, what is that saying about them? Could they be stupid? What's the problem? Why do we have to explain things to them? Why should we have any confidence in their running the country?

    Kerry's speech at Harvard was hardly inspirational. Why would anyone be passionate about voting for him? This non-entity was the best person the Democrats could find to run for office? Maybe if they'd fielded a REAL candidate, he'd have received so many votes that even election fraud wouldn't have been able to deny him the Presidency.

    One day, back in my super duper apolitical days, I was watching Jay Leno and this guy I never heard of comes on. Howard Dean. Wow, I thought. This guy sounds great. If he runs, I will lift myself out of my apathy and actually go and cast my vote.

    Next I read that everyone, Democrats included, agree he somehow self-destructed because he acted emotionally, and we get the stooge Kerry as the candidate. I didn't vote.

    Al Gore's recent speech is a shadow, or less, of his recent great impassioned speech that electrified all true patriots. Now he says the problem is that the various "visions" of this Administration have turned out to be wrong. Not lies. Not immoral. Not illegal, insane, heinous, corrupt, inhuman, immoral policies. Just "visions" which turned out to be wrong.

    Hillary Clinton and Schumer say nothing of substance.

    Gary Hart, in an article on Huffington Post today, writes:

    Mass transport must be mustered for rapid withdrawal of those troops from volatile cities in the explosive central region of Iraq. Intensive diplomatic efforts must be focused on preventing an Iraqi civil war from spreading to Iran, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, and Syria. Such a potential could make the greater Middle East a tinder box for years, if not decades, to come.

    In other words, don't withdraw and bring the troops home. Just move them around within Iraq. And he apparently thinks it's our problem if an Iraqi civil war spreads to the rest of the Middle East. Why?

    There is always going to be trouble somewhere in the world. Our nation cannot stop that. But why not let them deal with it, and concentate on our own back yard?

    Gary Hart sounds like a neo-con to me. He's not arguing about the morality of starting an unprovoked war. He just thinks our troops should stay inside their barracks to remain safe now that our invasion of that country has led to widespread chaos, death and destruction.

    I am not at all confident that if any of these men had been elected President, things would have been that much better here. Maybe the "system" is broken beyond repair.

    How the Democrats handle this Feingold censure motion is going to be very informative, to me at least. When finally a true hero does emerge in the Democratic party, it appears he's the exception, rather than the rule, and finds no real support within his own party.

    What does that say about that party?

    Maybe I was right to be apolitical. If politics is a game and the citizens go along with that game and keep voting in mediocrities who best "game" the system, is it any wonder this country has disintegrated so fast?

    It's time for the Democratic Party to show its true colors. If it comes out strongly in support of Feingold, it will earn my respect and support. Feingold represents my values. Does he represent the Democratic Party's values?

    If not, and they not only eat their own but devour their single best child, then it appears we are dealing with two parties which are equally contemtpible, so why waste time?

    And you know what? Why the hell do I have to spend all day calling Senators to tell them I support Feingold's censure motion? Why don't they support Feingold's censure motion themselves? Or do they operate solely by putting their finger out the window to see which way the wind is blowing because they want to keep the dollars coming in and keep their pork laden cushy little jobs, to no good end, and for no good reason.

    ReplyDelete
  32. Anonymous2:18 PM

    A moderate, serious, responsible Democrat is somebody who goes along and gets along, so the world goes to hell and we get screwed.

    ReplyDelete
  33. So Feingold (or a staffer) has a diary over at Kos. Isn't that contrary to how GG reported his meeting with Rockefeller's staffer? (He didn't say it was Rockefeller, I'm just inferring...)

    You know... treating blogs as "hands off" n all?

    ReplyDelete
  34. Anonymous2:37 PM

    Alicia-FL said...

    Exactly the point -- the blogosphere may proclaim they have all the answers if only so-and-so would "follow the dance", but often there is no tolerance for anyone that has a different perspective -- THIS IS WHAT IS SICK!

    Chimpy can proclaim he has "value voters" in NV that support he family crap AND legalized prostitution...

    Guess there is a great deal of tolerance there...

    Gratefully, the democratic party does not, at least officially, insult people that agree with 90 percent of their objectives becuause they demand 100%

    Hey, if you have all the answers... start your own party and find out how many want to march with you in lockstep...

    Sorry if I have offended your 'gods' - but real change will require working with people that have open minds and don't just preach to their choir.

    Not that I expect you to get it...

    ReplyDelete
  35. Anonymous2:38 PM

    So Feingold (or a staffer) has a diary over at Kos. Isn't that contrary to how GG reported his meeting with Rockefeller's staffer? (He didn't say it was Rockefeller, I'm just inferring...)

    Is it really such a surprise that Feingold is different from most other Senators in how he views the blogosphere? He's written before on Kos, and on Josh Marshall's site.

    ReplyDelete
  36. Joe Gandleman has an interesting round-up on the Feingold proposal.

    In his update, he points out this statement from one commenter:

    "You mention Democrats who need Republican votes to get elected not going for it. It should also be stated that some people who usually vote Democrat, but sometimes go Republican, like myself, will not be voting for any Republican who does not support the measure. It goes both ways. So they can count the votes or count their conscience. Up to them."

    Even if this vote on censure doesn’t pass, I hardly see how it can not benefit the promotion of this issue and the Democratic Party.

    The only one saying otherwise (in Gandleman’s roundup) is Marshall Whitman (representing the spineless wing of the Democratic Party - the DLC) who insists it will hurt them because it is “overreach.”

    Now let’s be clear who Marshall “The Bullmoose” Whitman is. He is really the John McCain wing of the Democratic Party who has described himself in the past as a “McCainiac” who would crawl over a field of glass to support McCain.

    Now before the Democratic Party starts taking advise from this former McCain advisor on how to win elections, I think perhaps they had better read Paul Krugman’s column today to disabuse themselves of these persistent fantasies of McCain as a “moderate,” “maverick,” or a “reformer.” Talk about “urban myths” – here they are.

    ReplyDelete
  37. Anonymous3:06 PM

    Senator Feingold's Senate floor speech about his Censure Resolution is scheduled for about 4:oo p.m. this afternoon.

    It will be live on C-Span 2 television, and also via streaming video on-line which you can access at c-span.org.

    From responses being reported so far, it appears we are in another Alito filibuster/P.A.T.R.I.O.T. Act "leadership vacuum" so far -- Harry Reid AWOL, and therefore Dick Durbin nowhere to be found whipping the Senators. [Because, you know, Bob Shrum and his expert perennial-loser consultant clubmates, are whispering frightened rumors of Rove and his pudgy fists still not being in handcuffs, into their quivering ears...]

    This effort MUST be directed by the Democratic leadership in the Senate. Citizens calling in to their Senators are not in a position to whip the Party into unity. And UNITY is DEMANDED here. As is smart strategy for announcing a unified stand.

    So Harry Reid: GET WITH THE DAMN PROGRAM. His staffer actually is parroting GOP bullshit about an imaginary NSA operations "investigation" that the proposed rubberstamp subcommittee is going to undertake.

    Translation: Reid and Rockefeller (and so far Levin) are playing along with Executive-Branch-directed Republican Party tyranny over the Legislative Branch. Even though they have the Democratic votes (or could whip them into existence) to expose and ridicule such subservience by their fellow members of Congress, and to stand up for the people and the Constitution, starting with Feingold's Resolution.

    We need to keep the pressure on Reid (and Durbin) here, especially, seems to me.

    ReplyDelete
  38. Oops, sorry, here’s the link I meant to give:

    Joe Gandelman

    ReplyDelete
  39. Anonymous3:26 PM

    Your not going to like what I have to say:As a liberal woman who has,until yesterday, supported Senator Feingold, but I do not and will not support censure.This is bullshit.First we don't even know how many counts of illegal spying this man(bush) is guilty of so this is putting the cart before the horse.....I could go on and on about this, the reasons I am against this are simply too many to list...this who country is a nation of sheep,and I can't even imagine what the founding fathers must think of us as we discuss "censure" of a man who is the biggest criminal president of all times.The people in this country do not deserve the rights and liberties so many before us fought to preserve if they won't even take a stand for them...byt that logic maybe hitler should have been censured too...this makes me sick SHAME on this nation.Censure is a way for all of us to shrug off our responsibility,and it is not the proper way to address the issue.I don't want to hear anymore BS about how the nation doesn't have the stomach to go thru impeachment, thats too fucking bad, thats where we find ourselves, Bush has left us no choice,, so it is time this nation stepped up and does what is needed and stop being a bunch of wimps... sorry I told you that you wouldn't like what I had to say.

    ReplyDelete
  40. Anonymous3:41 PM

    Censure is a way for all of us to shrug off our responsibility,and it is not the proper way to address the issue

    I appreciate your concerns -- an earlier post on this thread expressed the same thing.

    Respect your position, hope that you might accept that it could be the start of something more. I too will be disappointed if it is the "end" of the discussion.

    I am sure that is not what Fiengold has in mind -- he has a lot of integrity and I have been following his political years since he got started.

    I am glad you shared your thoughts -- I don't believe that the blogosphere can be a vehicle for change without more of a dialog and that will require different views.

    Sounds to me that you are in agreement with most here on many important issues -- I see that as the key.

    Feel free to disagree... just my opinion.

    Some come to blogs to tell everyone else to do, I appreciate someone's honest expression of their ideas. Without this, we are just preaching to the "blog gods" and their choir.

    I share many of your concerns. Thanks

    ReplyDelete
  41. Anonymous3:42 PM

    I called Senator Levin's local office about an hour ago and they have indicated that he is likely to support the censure proposal so think that possibly his reaction yesterday was because he was taken by surprise.

    ReplyDelete
  42. Anonymous4:09 PM

    I keep coming round to one conclusion. The NSA program has been used to dig up dirt on Bush's political opponents as well as members of his own party. Are they being blackmailed or is their support being coerced?

    ReplyDelete
  43. Anonymous4:21 PM

    Just a quick aside on the estate tax issue. Those in support of it cite very cogent and strong arguments. I believe the discussions center around the idea of a "landed aristocracy" - - that is, if we all are created equal and hard work and dedication is what is needed to "make it" in the world...setting up huge trust funds,etc...to give some kids a very large advantage over other kids creates a system that is unbalanced from the start. This British already dealt with this issue at some length hundreds of years ago. The principle of citizen-equality is better served with an estate tax. Besides, as we all konw, those people who would benefit from no estate tax will likely already be more affluent than most others anyway and hence whatever advantages that can be gained from growing up more affluent these kids will likely already have. Its the poor kid who didnt get into Yale or Harvard because ass-hats like G.W. Bush took their seat type idea. Not entirely unreasonable, unless you are the one hoping for grandpa's fat inheritance to not get taxed.

    Good discussions on this topic can be found in history books - since it is a very old problem.

    ReplyDelete
  44. Anonymous4:25 PM

    Helen of Troy here.

    Check out Edward Teller's letter to his Alaskan Senators. He asks them Yes/No questions about Feingold's claims and ends with "If Fiengold is wrong, shouldn't you censure the senator? And if he right, how can you avoid censuring the president?" (from http://www.haloscan.com/comments/firedoglake/114220027401281012/#297766)

    Exactly. We have the responsibility to ask our senators narrow, specific questions before asking about the Big Censure. Especially but not only for Republican senators. Make them define a bright line and tell them we're going to hold them to it. Bonus points if you can make them define what the bright line was for Clinton.

    Please don't just ask them to support the censure. Ask them a question that requires thought to answer. Don't just ask for leaps, ask for small steps, and get them to commit (or not) to taking those first small steps.

    They can easily have a reasonable-sounding answer for not supporting RF's specific, just-announced, one-Senator censure resolution. They cannot easily have answers for well-designed questions on the specifics of Feingold's concerns.

    * Does the President decide what gets shared with the full Intelligence Committee?

    * Does the President decide what Congress means by an act without asking those very senators who wrote it?

    * Alberto Gonzales had to retroactively revise his testimony. Is this level of correction generally acceptable for testimony before the Senate? Is it acceptible for other people to revise their testimony in the same way? Why not?


    Teller's letter:
    Senator Russ Feingold has announced he will file a motion of censure against President Bush in the senate.

    I’m uncertain about this.

    Doesn’t President Bush have authority to conduct warrentless surveillance of Americans in the USA?

    Wasn’t he given clear authority to ignore the FISA restrictions when the Senate voted to give him commander-in-chief authority until the War on Terrorism has been completely won?

    And isn’t Feingold wrong when he states that it is clear that the president doesn’t have “inherent authority to ignore the law of the United States of America”?

    If Feingold is wrong, shouldn’t you censure the senator? And if Feingold is right, how can you avoid censuring the president?

    Could you be so kind as to answer my questions on this matter? I feel it is one of the most important issues you have had to address while so ably serving Alaskans.

    Sincerely,
    'Edward Teller'

    ReplyDelete
  45. Anonymous6:09 PM

    I waited all afternoon to see Feingold in C-SPAN 2 -- haven't seen him yet (was givn as 4 pm Eastern Time at some blog)

    HERE IS A LINK TO HIS PRESS RELEASE

    http://feingold.senate.gov/~feingold/releases/06/03/20060312.html

    Pretty powerful stuff, uses chimpy's own words to document that he has broken the law.

    ReplyDelete
  46. Anonymous6:24 PM

    The longer we can keep this issue in the news, the better, because without any doubt news of abuses and previously undisclosed programs is going to come out. This is a good move on Feingold's part.

    ReplyDelete
  47. Anonymous6:25 PM

    These lying liars proclaim to the world they are "conservative" and will not allow debate on increasing the debt limit by 800,000 billion!!!!

    And frist is using this to try and get Feingold's censure out of the national debate.

    ReplyDelete
  48. Anonymous6:27 PM

    ARLEN "MAGIC BULLET" SPECTER is going to talk after feingold....

    I am sure he will have some "truthful" things to say

    ReplyDelete
  49. Anonymous6:28 PM

    Now they are interupting him...

    The man that whitewashed the JFK assassination is tryhing to derail the censure motion!

    ReplyDelete
  50. Anonymous6:32 PM

    WAY TO GO RUSS!!!!!!

    He is clearly framing this as just a first step and demanding that further action be taken!

    ReplyDelete
  51. Katherine said:

    "If you don't believe politicians will ever do the right thing or that their constituents can make even a small difference in politics, you don't so much believe in democracy".

    While I found much of your post "interesting", I found the above quoted portion insulting!

    I made NO such claim! If you stop and think about it for a moment, your very own statement greatly resembles that of Scott McCellan’s where he posits, “Democrats want to argue that we shouldn't be listening to al Qaeda communications”.

    This is Scott inventing stuff Democrats never said, and in the case of your statement above, this is Katherine inventing stuff I’ve never said!

    Just as Democrats have never said such a thing, neither have I EVER stated that politicians would never do the right thing!

    You are free to disagree with my opinion on the state of political reality, but please don’t’ “invent” stuff I’ve never said!

    I do believe you owe me an apology. J

    Katherine said:

    “Oh, and contrary to what you're saying, Senators as Senators do not have special standing to sue under a law that the President isn't following. This exact issue came up before the Supreme Court a few years ago in a case--I think it was on the line item veto. the case got thrown out until someone could show that they were personally harmed. Congressmen's argument that they had standing to sue because the bill encroached on their constitutional powers was rejected”.

    You’re certainly entitled to an “opinion” on this issue, but I disagree with it. Contrary to what you’ve said, I am of the opinion that the members of the Senate Intelligence Committee DO indeed have standing as the injured party vis a vis the NSA Act of 1947. And that this particular case is NOT the same as the line item veto you refer to.

    It is my opinion, this is something that is worth trying in Federal court, and BTW, the attempt itself would probably also generate “political” media attention in a manner similar to Senator Feingold’s censure motion.

    In any event, feel free to disagree. Just don’t insult!

    ReplyDelete
  52. Anonymous6:49 PM

    Look what CNN had to say at the end of the article about the censure resolution:

    "On Tuesday, four Senate Republicans proposed a bill to provide what one called "very rigorous oversight" of the program while also giving it the force of law."

    Is the oversight very rigorous? Help me out, CNN.


    http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/03/13/feingold.censure/index.html

    ReplyDelete
  53. Anonymous7:02 PM

    "Magic Bullet" Specter showed his true colors this afternoon. The coward waited until Feinstein left the chamber and then "called him out" to debate.

    He knew he would not reach him, yet then insulted Feinstein for leaving and implied that this somehow took away from his motion to censure the chimperor.

    Specter was a lying liar on the Warren Commission, he was placed there for a reason. He was dutifully rewarded for playing his role on that whitewash (created the magic bullet theory), and now is part of this whitewash.

    Anyone that thinks specter will play a positive role in this is nuts or part of the lying liars echo chamber.

    ReplyDelete
  54. Anonymous7:42 PM

    God, I hate these people. Meaning our own. Reid and Pelosi distance themselves from Feingold.

    ReplyDelete
  55. There's an update to the story at Vichy Democrats linked in the previous post;

    "UPDATE, 2:53 PM PT: A staffer in Harry Reid's office just told me he was unaware of any statement by Senator Reid, and that he doubted the truth of any reports that the Senate Minority Leader was not supporting Feingold's resolution."

    I don't know about Pelosi

    ReplyDelete
  56. Anonymous8:57 PM

    Glenn, I am assuming you heard Arlen Specter's speech, and will be addressing the points he brought up. Especially interesting will be your evaluation about his take on the DeWine proposal.

    If it were up to me to have to do all that, I'd jump out a window. It's really fantastic that there is a brilliant lawyer and writer like you to weigh in with an analysis that I know will be the right one, and that every lawyer interested in these issues, like Marty Lederman, will be reading.

    Gosh Glenn. I feel so sorry for you. The fate of the country now rests on your shoulders.

    Oh well, things happen :) Good luck!

    PS. I agreed with each and every word Russ Feingold said, and I was proud to be an American once again.

    ReplyDelete
  57. Anonymous8:58 PM

    Clearly the repugs and lying liars are scared...

    Chimpy polls at 36 percent with galllop, the lying liar that told us chimpy was going to win 2004 by a landslide -- they consistently oversample republicans, skewing polls in chimpy's favor.

    And this is the best they can do...

    We will he a lot of noise designed to minimize the impact and support of the censure vote. Gratefully, Feingold made it clear that this is not an "end" but just the beginning to a fuller understanding out the extent of the lawbreaking.

    He did use the "I" word too!

    ReplyDelete
  58. Anonymous9:07 PM

    capitalnews.org

    Log on. CSPAN is conducting a poll as to whether people think Feingold's censure motion was a good idea or bad idea.

    ReplyDelete
  59. Anonymous9:09 PM

    Hey, poll results are currently that 73% think it is a GOOD IDEA!

    Go vote.

    Every bit counts.

    ReplyDelete
  60. Anonymous9:26 PM

    Thanks, peachkfc, I should have done that.

    ReplyDelete
  61. Anonymous9:52 PM

    justme said... Impeach, don't censure.

    Agree that it is unsatisfying to see someone who is guilty of much, be charged with little.

    However, if you listen to Feingold's speech, you will note that he did talk of impeachment, if facts develop which make that feasible. This is the first step toward impeachment. But it's a necessary step.

    You have to play the hand that is dealt you. Supporting the censure motion does not mean any of us are conceding that we will be satisfied with just that.

    I hope you will come to see it that way. We share your passion, which is noted with gratitude. But strategy is needed to accomplish our goals, and Feingold is using the very best possible strategy to gain the gold.

    ReplyDelete
  62. Anonymous10:05 PM

    Eyes Wide Open - wow, your display of ignorance regarding the estate tax is simply amazing. The captial gains of assets such as stocks and real estate are NOT taxed until they are sold. If you die with such assets then they have NEVER been taxed, thus the need for an estate tax.

    This is such fundamental information that I can't believe you don't understand it.

    ReplyDelete
  63. The Elephants are so terrified of the Feingold censure resolution that they attempted to set this for votes on both Tuesday and Thursday of this week. In this, the Senate took a page from the House, which held an immediate vote on the Murtha withdrawal motion.

    The Donkeys are so eager to get on record supporting the Feingold censure resolution, that they blocked the Elephant attempts to set this resolution for an immediate vote.

    PLEASE call your Donkey senator repeatedly and email him or her continuously, demanding that they allow an immediate vote on the Feingold censure proposal to show the American voters where they really stand!

    ReplyDelete
  64. Anonymous10:40 PM

    Bart, don't you have a bed that need wetting, you silly Monarchist

    ReplyDelete
  65. Anonymous10:43 PM

    Wow -- our resident troll is so scared he is copying and pasting his off-topic, wingnut talking points into both threads...

    Previously, Glenn's new "flypaper" strategy was working...

    We let 'em troll downstairs and so we did not have to put up with the constant copying and pasting of rightwing talking points upstairs.

    Guess we really got 'em scared now.

    I wouldn't waste my time to fully read the crap for his never-ending clipboard and would not engage the troll directly, but think it is appropriate to share that we are clearly getting to them now that chimpy is in the mid 30's, has been below 40% approval for quite some time now, and the chimpy supporters are now america's "fringe"

    YEAH!!!!!

    ReplyDelete
  66. Anonymous said...

    Wow -- our resident troll is so scared he is copying and pasting his off-topic, wingnut talking points into both threads...


    Don't you folks recognize taunting when you read it?

    Surely some of you must be Monty Python Fans. Perhaps this might remind you what taunting is all about...

    CUT TO: 9 EXTERIOR - CASTLE - DAY MIX THROUGH one or two shots of them on their way again, until they approach a terrific castle (a little one would do too). They advance quite close to the castle and draw themselves into a line.

    At a signal from ARTHUR the two PAGES step forward and give a brief fanfare. A MAN appears on the battlements. ARTHUR addresses him.

    ARTHUR Hello.

    MAN 'Allo. Whoo is eet?

    ARTHUR I am King Arthur and these are the Knights of the Round Table. Whose castle is this?

    MAN This is the castle of of my master, Guy de Loimbard.

    ARTHUR Please go and tell your master that we have been charged by God with a sacred quest, and if he will give us food and shelter for this night he can join us in our quest for the Holy Grail.

    MAN Well, I'll ask him, but I don't think he'll be very keen. He's already got one, you see?

    ARTHUR What?

    GALAHAD He says they've already got one! They are stunned.

    ARTHUR Are you sure he's got one? MAN Oh yes. It's very nice

    CUT TO BATTLEMENTS. THE TAUNTER (MAN) turns to some others.

    MAN: I told him we already got one. They all giggle.

    ARTHUR Well ... can we come up and have a look?

    MAN Of course not! You are English pigs.

    ARTHUR Well, what are you then?

    MAN I'm French. Why do think I have this outrageous accent, you silly king.

    GALAHAD What are you doing in England?

    MAN Mind your own business.

    ARTHUR If you will not show us the Grail we shall storm your castle. Murmurs of assent.

    MAN You don't frighten us, English pig-dog! Go and boil your bottoms, son of a silly person. I blow my nose on you, so-called Arthur-king, you and your silly English K...kaniggets. He puts hands to his ears and blows a raspberry.

    GALAHAD What a strange person.

    ARTHUR Now look here, my good man!

    MAN I don't want to talk to you, no more, you empty-headed animal, food trough wiper. I fart in your general direction. You mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries.

    GALAHAD Is there someone else up there we could talk to?

    MAN No. Now go away or I shall taunt you a second time.




    I think you talk a great game, but you refuse to hold your own party to task and demand that they vote on the Feingold censure resolution which you all claim to support.

    How come the whenever one of your Dem representatives come up with a resolution to support one of your ideas, the Elephants demand a vote and it is your Donkey party which runs from an actually vote like scalded cats?

    ReplyDelete
  67. Anonymous12:24 AM

    Bart said:

    Sagittis vel, elementum at, volutpat at, lacus. Nulla facilisi. Phasellus velit eros, lacinia quis, sodales non, condimentum quis, orci. Nunc iaculis. Suspendisse sit amet urna. In viverra congue augue. Duis sit amet metus non urna porttitor euismod. Aenean euismod, massa ac cursus tristique, ante turpis varius erat, vitae porta lorem libero tempor nisl. Aliquam erat volutpat. Aenean aliquam, sapien sed suscipit rhoncus, ligula sem iaculis nulla, quis semper leo sapien id ligula. Cras vel quam. Ut magna elit, cursus et, ullamcorper aliquet, viverra sed, est. Integer aliquet dignissim odio. Quisque blandit, sem at adipiscing semper, diam massa ullamcorper dui, nec dictum sem ante quis eros.

    Pellentesque habitant morbi tristique senectus et netus et malesuada fames ac turpis egestas. Ut vel enim. Nulla bibendum egestas est. Suspendisse potenti. Donec congue sollicitudin massa. Etiam sit amet dui eu erat pellentesque blandit. Sed auctor tincidunt ligula. Praesent porttitor, sem eget molestie fermentum, magna felis feugiat tortor, vehicula faucibus est tortor scelerisque quam. Praesent sapien lectus, pretium eget, sagittis vel, faucibus sit amet, diam. In pellentesque facilisis ligula. Donec semper. Cum sociis natoque penatibus et magnis dis parturient montes, nascetur ridiculus mus. Suspendisse a nunc. Maecenas nec enim non urna vulputate volutpat. Vivamus non tellus. Quisque sit amet ligula. Sed metus ligula, commodo in, facilisis accumsan, pulvinar nec, purus. Cras vitae risus. Integer auctor enim laoreet mauris.

    Morbi mattis arcu ut arcu. Phasellus dictum nunc ut elit. Praesent molestie quam a dui vulputate posuere. Fusce adipiscing consequat erat. Quisque massa. Aliquam volutpat egestas libero. Phasellus a magna. Donec mollis lacinia diam. Morbi luctus, purus a tincidunt vehicula, est nibh porta turpis, id dictum neque ligula ac mi. Etiam pellentesque, lacus sed imperdiet dapibus, velit augue tempus libero, nec commodo dolor est non nisl. Class aptent taciti sociosqu ad litora torquent per conubia nostra, per inceptos hymenaeos. Aenean posuere commodo lacus. Maecenas nec nisl. Cras eget ligula ac lacus tristique accumsan. Praesent erat. Aenean at pede. Fusce nonummy venenatis diam.

    In hac habitasse platea dictumst. Nullam iaculis sem in eros tempus tristique. Suspendisse sapien metus, gravida mattis, mollis eu, pulvinar in, nisi. Etiam egestas rutrum pede. Nulla pretium suscipit nulla. Nulla facilisi. Cras ac leo. Maecenas ultrices pede. Nam lobortis pede in quam. Phasellus interdum pulvinar ante.

    Vivamus molestie, metus ac rutrum viverra, enim nunc dictum nulla, id dapibus arcu diam non elit. Aliquam mi est, elementum sit amet, lobortis in, feugiat non, elit. Vestibulum vel nibh. Ut sodales, velit vulputate condimentum vestibulum, sapien justo tincidunt nisl, eu placerat nisi massa non urna. Aenean luctus arcu rutrum pede mollis aliquam. Suspendisse mollis convallis leo. Suspendisse potenti. Nullam feugiat, pede non interdum pharetra, metus ipsum vehicula enim, ac tincidunt augue risus id tortor. Nulla facilisi. Nunc non metus adipiscing lacus varius tincidunt. Vivamus luctus lorem quis enim.


    meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow

    meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow
    meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow

    meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow

    meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow

    ReplyDelete
  68. Anonymous3:05 AM

    gay veteran: AL pointed out the exemption before taxation of estates is two million, not one million as I had written. Not planning to die soon, I haven't kept up with that and admit I was wrong.

    However, much as I respect AL, I disagree with his other comments about my post, and I disagree with what you write also. Your snarky tone does not add to your persuasiveness.

    ReplyDelete
  69. Anonymous3:03 PM

    RE: Update II (censure resolution posted at Feingold's site).

    It's about time!

    Asking people to support it, call senators, etc., without knowing what it says put the cart very far out in front of the horse. I know wingnuts and dittoheads have no qualms about flogging the party line no matter what. But we're supposed to be the "reality-based community".

    I can see valid reasons for keeping it under wraps up until the time Feingold made his intention public, but not after. It should have then immediately been made widely, publicly accessible.

    I'm on Feingold's e-mail list, and wrote the following in reply to his e-mail asking me to sign on as "citizen co-sponsor":

    Russ,

    I realize passing laws without reading them is standard Congressional SOP, but some of us in the reality-based community feel some reluctance to sign on to something sight unseen. I strongly applaud your efforts to hold Bush accountable for his lawlessness, and am virtually certain I would sign on as a citizen co-sponsor, but until the text of the resolution is made public, asking me to do so seems to put the cart before the horse, no?


    Have received no reply, unless Glenn's Update II is it.

    ReplyDelete
  70. Anonymous8:46 AM

    Do you people get paid directly by Karl Rove, or are you merely 'usefull idiots'? Pleeease let this censure measure go forward. It will have the backing of maybe 17% of actual voters. People like the idea of monitoring the enemy. Because to not do so, would be to violate the oath the Pres. took to uphold the Constitution (read:Article II).

    Beyond that however, the censure measure will ensure that Republicans GAIN seats in Congress this November. The Demoncat party would do well to split up into say....three or four different parties. The FDR Dems disagree with the JFK Dems, and neither group agrees with this generations Dems - the Marxist Dems. Keep it coming.

    ReplyDelete