The Washington Post published yet another article today -- this one entitled The Left, Online and Outraged, by David Finkel -- seeking to depict the liberal blogosphere as being nothing more than the venting ground for the crazed and hateful rantings of what it calls "the Angry Left." To accomplish this goal, the article features a single blogger, Maryscott O'Connor of My Left Wing, examines her posts, finds the most extreme and outrageous, throws in some deliberately selected inflammatory comments buried in various blogs, and then attributes all of that to the liberal blogosphere generally. Based upon these isolated comments, The Post tells its readers that the liberal blogosphere is a place reserved for the furious and the profane -- "Loud, crass and instantaneous."
The article's principal tactic -- really, its sole tactic -- is to search through hundreds of comments on O'Connor's site and sites like Eschaton, pick out the most extreme ones, and then feature them as representative of the blogosphere generally. Thus, we are subjected to sweeping conclusions like this one:
Not that long ago, it was the right that was angry and the left that was, at least comparatively, polite. But after years of being the targets of inflammatory rhetoric, not only from fringe groups but also from such mainstream conservative politicians as Newt Gingrich, the left has gone on the attack. And with Republicans in control of Washington, they have much more to be angry about.
The words and attitudes of Maryscott O'Connor and the handful of comments which the reporter searched out and found aren't representative only of them. Rather, they demonstrate what "the left" in this country -- a term never defined but seemingly inclusive of all opponents of the Bush administration -- has become.
The tactics in the article are as intellectually lazy and empty as they are transparently deceitful and trite. There is no cheaper or emptier form of argumentation than to isolate a specific individual, describe her, and then, without any basis, ascribe those attributes generally to some larger group -- in this case, a much, much larger and more diverse group -- of which she is ostensibly a part. Anyone who has even minimal exposure to "the blogosphere" knows that it is insusceptible to the sort of sweeping generalization oozing from every misleading paragraph in this article.
The blogosphere -- including the "Left blogosphere" -- offers infinite space for any and every person who wants to opine, report, analyze, or rant. Hundreds of thousands do so. As a result, the blogosphere has every possible activity, tenor, and approach that exists, in abundance, and Maryscott O'Connor is no more symbolic of it than is Josh Marshall, or Steve Clemons, or Digby or Steve Benen -- or any other blogger, big, small or in between -- that one could purposely select based on one's goal. Finkel's pre-ordained goal here is to depict the blogosphere as a content-free venting ground where death wishes are heaped upon George Bush, so he simply searches those comments out and then holds them up as illustrative of the blogosphere.
The crude tactics employed by this article are easily dismissed, but the objective of this article -- to destroy the credibility of the blogosphere and what we do here, mostly because it is so threatening to the establishment media's dying monopoly over the flow of information, news, opinion and analysis -- should be taken very seriously. This is not some isolated hit piece. The Washington Post alone has published several articles in the last couple months which suggest, imply or outright state that the blogosphere generally, and the liberal blogosphere in particular, is irresponsible and filled with raged-driven radicals who are as extreme as they are irrelevant. Thus, one can and should ignore what it produces, because it is nothing more elevated than bitter, reckless, and hate-filled rants.
Needless to say, the most simplistic and intellectually corrupt Bush followers have seized on this most simplistic and corrupt journalistic stunt, pointing to it as some sort of vindication for every cheap stereotype in which they routinely traffic. Here, for instance, is how Hugh Hewitt sees and interprets the "evidence" offered up by the Post:
Chapter 5 of Painting the Map Red is titled: "The Democratic Left Is Addicted to Venom, and That Venom Is Poisoning the Political Process."
Today's Washington Post story, "The Left, Online and Outraged," confirms my thesis. Read the whole thing, including the absurd attempt to blame the descent of the left on conservatives:
But after years of being the targets of inflammatory rhetoric, not only from fringe groups but also from such mainstream conservative politicians as Newt Gingrich, the left has gone on the attack.
The left has become disfigured because the excess that dominates the lefty blogs is absorbed by rank-and-file activists and encouraged by the Democratic Party leadership, which embraces, posts at and praises the blogs that are among the angriest and most vulgar/profane/hate-filled.
There is no question that there is anger and even some extremist rhetoric on the Left. But no sane person could deny that one finds the same type of mindset on the Right, but to a magnitude that is incalculable. The real difference is that, to find rank hatemongering on the Right, one need not go digging into the 300th Comment on a blog or the most extreme postings of a relatively obscure blogger, because this type of limitless rhetorical attack has been a staple of the mainstream Right for more or less two decades now.
The Right's best-selling author calls liberals traitors and urges that they be beaten with baseball bats and attacked with bombs. Its most popular radio talk show host -- with his 20 million daily followers -- has spent the last 20 years urging that liberals be deported and praising the kidnappings of his political opponents, while other favorites on Right-wing radio routinely call for the imprisonment of leading Democrats. Similarly, some of the Right's favorite commentators have urged that those who espouse liberalism be tried for sedition, or worse.
One favorite right-wing commentator has written two books - one devoted to showing that liberals are mentally ill, and the other defending the internment of innocent American citizens in prison camps. The Right's leading elected officials and pundits just in the last couple of years have repeatedly taken to threatening federal judges who issue opinions they dislike.
And how fondly I recall these sentiments from Sen. Jesse Helms during the Clinton years:
In an effort to dampen the furor over his Commander-in-Chief remarks, on November 22 Helms told a newspaper reporter from his home state of North Carolina that the President should be careful about visiting military bases in that state. "Mr. Clinton better watch out of he comes down here," Helms said. "He better have a bodyguard."
Can one even contemplate the reaction if a Democratic Senator today warned George Bush to avoid military bases becasue he would likely be physically attacked by a military that hated him? Granted, those threats against the President were merely from a leading Republican Senator, not from an anonymous commenter on a blog, but they do nonetheless demonstrate that the Right, including its most powerful figures, long ago relinquished any limits when it comes to rhetorical attacks. The only difficult part of compiling this list is deciding what the worst offenders are and which examples should be left out. And that is to say nothing of the daily doses of hatred and bile that spew forth from the Right blogosphere, which I have no doubt someone else will be compiling shortly -- again.
It is just astonishing to have to read an endless article from the Post about the supposed rage and anger on the "Left" -- all based on the sought-out, most extreme sentiments of people with little or no real influence -- while the eliminationist and traitor rhetoric that has been a central rhetorical tool of the Right's primary power centers for decades is mentioned only in passing, only by way of explaining how the Right used to engage in this sort of rage-driven politics until the Left took over. But anyone who listens on any given day to Rush Limbaugh or Bill O'Reilly, or who reads the hate-mongering and treason-accusing screeds of Ann Coulter, Michelle Malkin and Powerline, know how fundamentally false that picture is.
Any time old, crusted, failing, dying institutions launch attcks on new and innovative competitors, it is an unmistakable sign that the attacking dinasour feels threatened and feels its power slipping away. That dynamic, more than any ideological goal, is what is motivating the steadily increasing appearance of these types of hostile blogosphere caricatures masquerading as news articles. The reality is that the blogosphere need not be a hostile competitor of journalists, but can be a uniquely valuable research and analysis tool to supplement the governmental adversary role which journalists are supposed to perform.
But until they realize that, and as long as they continue to perceive that their stranglehold on conventional wisdom is being abolished as a result of the irreverent and increasingly substantive blogosphere, these types of "articles," devoted to the destruction of the blogosphere's credibility, are going to become more and more common - and more and more desperate. Today's exercise by Finkel in the lowly art of absurd caricature and sloppy generalization advances that process, ambitiously and enthusiastically.
UPDATE: O'Connor has posted on her blog an account of the experience she had with Finkel, and it contains two revealing though unsurprising facts. First, before writing this article, Finkel "had never been to a blog before." Gee, what a surprise -- more journalists who have no idea what blogs are writing articles on the blogosphere like they are experts. Second, before writing the article, Finkel hilariously said that he "didn't have in mind any angle." But "[h]e did have a phrase weaving in and out of his mind: 'The Angry Left.'" To recap: Finkel had no angle in mind for the article beforehand - merely a phrase floating around in his mind (where, I suspect, there is plenty of room for phrases to float comfortably): "The Angry Left." How to respond to a proposition that negates itself?
The scariest part: none of this is unusual. It is not an unrepresentative picture of how much of our "journalism" is produced.
Glenn,
ReplyDeleteHave you read Mary's account of the interview process over at Daily Kos?
"The tactics in the article are as intellectually lazy and empty as they are transparently deceitful and trite."
ReplyDeleteAgreed. But Glenn, I suggest that intellectual laziness is much much more than merely an issue for MSM criticism. We deplore the MSM dysfunction but what can we propose to fix it? Much of what has gone wrong in our country over tha last decade or so appears to stem from intellectual laziness permeating all levels of our society. It gives rise to Government incompetence; to failures in education; to political polarization; to failures of imagination in proposing solutions to well-known social problems; to many of our social problems that we can clearly see as arising from simplistic thinking. And it is now clearly endemic. I am watching for some engagement in our culture with the WHY and the HOW of this issue.
For example, is this a (I hope, temporary) consequence of big improvements in digital communications and computer technology? Is it a phase of social change similar to the obesity epidemic that arose from earlier tectonic shifts in mechanical techology? What can any of us do to help ease our society through this problem?
Apologies for being a bit off topic, but I respect your blog above nearly all others for your sophisticated thinking and want to propose this (perhaps simplistic but important) idea to you and your fans.
Glenn,
ReplyDeleteAs always, a wonderfully written post.
I sent an email to Finkel when I saw the article online last night, but clearly he is a lost cause.
As a citizen, I find the intellectual dishonesty of this and related articles is the Post to be reprehensible.
As a partial owner of the Washington Post, I find the lack of interest in engaging the blogosphere in a way that can benefit the bottom line to be
a dereliction of the WaPo's managers fiduciary responsibility. I wonder what Warren Buffet would say if he knew how the Post's editors are flushing its reputation down the drain.
So Finkel hadn't been to a blog before? What about his editor? Maybe that would be the one who hired the right-wing plagiarism expert. That turned out well.
ReplyDeletePayback to the blogosphere, perhaps?
And that is to say nothing of the daily doses of hatred and bile that spew forth from the Right blogosphere, which I have no doubt someone else will be compiling shortly -- again.
ReplyDeleteMy jaw dropped when I read that piece this a.m. -- and I knew you'd write this. It struck me as surreal, given having recently been told to fuck off and die by a Bush supporter for the sin of concluding first that Bush is illegally violating FISA, and then noting his dissenting retired generals. One could, of course, only observe that in all of one's many tangles with the left,
nothing that foul had ever been directed at one.
Reading your excellent post, I only can lament the discredit brought to our major educational institutions, where it used to be fundamental to perpetuate that most uncommon of common sense priorities: critical thinking. That a major outlet of journalism, one with a fine tradition of honest and open enquiry, would stoop to such abysmal depths of polemic rhetoric is telling. No self-respecting editor with any belief in intellectual honesty of her readership would allow such tripe past her desk.
ReplyDeleteI think Maryscott knew that this would be a 'hit piece,' and simply decided to take one for the team. Let's hope this at least keeps her in the spotlight, so that she can continue to go on tv and kick some serious ass. Because she did.
ReplyDeleteI also don't care if the WaPo thinks I'm angry. I am angry. A lot of people are angry. In November, they will find out how many. Perhaps their plummeting circulation has already given them a hint??
Good pickup on this Glenn, Gilliard has it too.
Cheers,
GW
I think the press is following a siren song here.
ReplyDeleteBlogs and Maryscott are much more exciting than they can be.
They are constrained where she and we are free.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteGlenn you left out my favorite liberal-hate book: Help Mom! There Are Liberals Under the Bed!
ReplyDeleteNever can start training people to view another class of humans as monsters too early, after all.
I suspect that it is true that discourse has coarsened in the US and this is reflected in the blogsphere. Perhaps it is a result of reasonable, well thought out commentary being utterly ignored by those currently in power. I don't know. However, I do know that it is totally impossible to be reasonable and courteous about the potential use of nuclear weapons. They strip the humanity from one before they are used. (and, of course, the life of those they are used against).
ReplyDelete(where, I suspect, there is plenty of room for phrases to float comfortably):
ReplyDeleteToo funny, Glenn:)
I am literally floored that an article on the blogosphere would be assigned to a writer who had never read a blog before, but I guess such shoddy journalistic standards have become commonplace at WAPO these days.
Seems they're still steaming at how they were so completely discredited and humiliated by the Ben D. fiasco.
Not surprising that "The Bitter Main Stream Media" is lashing out at the "Angry Left." When Dinosaurs first come to the realization they are becoming extinct, it seems to unnerve them to the point of silliness. They do provide some good belly laughs however:)
Happy Easter and Happy Passover to all you angry people, left, right and middle!
Glen Greenwald is the Michael Jordan of bloggers. Can he write or what!
ReplyDeleteAlso I'm very, very angry at the Washington Post.
All of this snark, lampoon, sarcasm, etc. has a proud heritage in US politics. Supposedly, Lincoln himself used to write anonymous letters to the editor containing satirical, scandalous ribs at the opposition party.
ReplyDeleteWhat you've done here Glenn is to call the WaPo on its own hypocrisy--their oh so righteous indignation at the uncouth wrath of the unwashed masses is really just a cover-up for their own asskissing of the power elite.
It's also nice that you draw some distinctions here that I think deserve clarity. There is an ehtical difference, I think, between calling politicans to task for their venality as many on the Left and Right do and the sordid, dissolute, and soulless hatred that many on the Right vent in their flatulent pontificating.
The MSM has a lot to answer for--what with their complicity in the war on Iraq and the deceitful and scandalous lack of investigative reporting they now refuse to do. The blogosphere takes up the slack now that the MSM has sold their first-born to the Whore of Babylon's media empire.
Hopefully, US politics will never be too pure to have room for honest, in-depth investigative reporting and the type of tricksterish gonzoism of the blogosphere that Hunter Thompson is, no doubt, smiling on from his air-conditioned nightmare in an antechamber of whatever Bardo he inhabits.
Blogs . . . whatever they are . . . insane . . . nuts. Just read one for the first time . . . wacky . . .
ReplyDelete...an article on the blogosphere would be assigned to a writer who had never read a blog before
ReplyDeletewell, the articles they write about WMD in iraq, the chimperor, and plame all all assigned to writers that have no grasp on reality or basic elements of logic.
It makes it easier to "catapult" the propaganda if you assign lying liars and/or idiots to do the work. Just look at chimpy's pr moron, scotty.
PS. I wouldn't be surprised if a large number of the most foul, ignorant and dismissible comments that appear on liberal blogs are written by members of the Right in an attempt to create so they can then discredit the "Angry Left" they like to talk about.
ReplyDeleteHalf of those probably are written (or lifted) by Ben himself :)
Here's how it should proceed:
ReplyDeleteFind the most heinous act ever committed by a WaPo journalist. I'm sure there have to have been a few pedophiles, or murders, etc.
For those in the media who just don't get it:
Look up the definition of "distribution curve". Every possible action will fall on that "long tail" off to either side. If you ask me, the main problem with the media today is the amplification of the oddities -- those things that sit on the end of the curve.
Resposible journalism should be 80% about reporting what falls withing the first standard deviation, 15% for the second, and les than 5% for the rest.
Today the formula seems to be inverted (especially regarding missing white girls).
and whats with this liberal holiday tomorrow celebrating the erection of christ?
ReplyDeleteis that sick or what?
I wouldn't be surprised if a large number of the most foul, ignorant and dismissible comments that appear on liberal blogs are written by members of the Right
ReplyDeleteDo you think that our resident "copy and paste" trolls spend their time between comments here posting inflammatory statements pretending to be liberals?
Guess if you are a shill, ya just keep posting -- rightwing crap here and make-believe leftwing crap over there.
My favorite part of MSOC's post is that she describes the reporter as being absurdly ethical about not even taking a glass of water from her, or using her bathroom... but he's all too willing to go into an assignment uninformed and lying about not having an agenda.
ReplyDeleteAs Atrios would say, sounds like time for another blogger ethics conference.
Is it time for a WaPoWatch blog? Because there's certainly plenty of material for one, and they're showing no signs of pulling their heads out of their political/corporate bosses', um, pockets any time soon...
Also - a little more defense of MSOC would be nice, given that we're talking about organizing and building a progressive movement that learns from past mistakes, and standing up for each other is a pretty important one. Aside from that, I think it's a great post.
ReplyDeleteIn a post titled Moonbats on Parade in the Washington Post O’Connor is not only described as part of the “foaming at the mouth” left in this country but compared to Islamofascists for her blog. Why am I not surprised?
ReplyDeleteBut I must note how similar the logic these people have is to that of the Taliban and Al Qaeda: [O’Connor quote] ….That basically sums up 9-11 and all the bombings and killings around the world by the Islamo Fascists.
These people are the enablers of the terrorists. They represent the example that let’s terrorists think their actions are no different than what Americans think and dream they could do. The see a Maryscott and say ‘how is my anger any different?’ These angry (and emotionally stunted) people are one step away from moving from actions to words, just like Islamcists did at some point. This is not good.
And one of his first comments agrees wholeheartedly with that sentiment.:
You know, I was about to say the same thing. The only difference between al Qaeda and some of these hate-filled liberal bloggers is that they don’t use violence. They share some of the exact same rhetoric and propaganda about the USA, Bush, and Israel. The only difference is that al Qaeda is willing to kill for it, while the liberal bloggers just rant, rave, and cuss the anger out of their system on their blogs.
So, lefty bloggers are not only foul-mouthed, insane and drunk, but they are mentally just like Al Qaeda.
Thank-you Washington Post.
Also - a little more defense of MSOC would be nice, given that we're talking about organizing and building a progressive movement that learns from past mistakes, and standing up for each other is a pretty important one.
ReplyDeleteSorry, but I dont think that's necessary, because it's besides the point. Maryscott has a particular set of views and a particular way of expressing them that she finds fulfilling. We don't all have to agree with those views or admire those methods in order to make the point that there is a diversity in the blogosphere that includes her views and methods, but includes many, many others as well which are quite different than hers.
I didn't criticize her views or her methods. I think she knows that they are susceptible to being used by the Right in order to caricature her, and she seems fine with that. So am I. I don't object at all her to her anger or her method for expressing it. It's inevitable in an open and democratic forum like the blogosphere that all methods and views will exist. I like that about the blogosphere. What I object to is the false and misleading notion that any one blogger can be singled out and held up as representative of what we do here.
Anyone with an even passing familiarity with the blogosphere - which obviously excludes this "reporter" - knows that one of the defining attributes of the blogosphere is that its very vastness and openess means that it evades such generalization and stereotype.
Yep, remember when lefty liberal Tim McVeigh bombed the federal building in Oklahoma City? Leftist moonbats sure do hate America.
ReplyDeleteThey can't very well call it what it is, "an angry population". A very loud and angry majority, on both sides of the political divide.
ReplyDeleteShe's got a choice: she can embrace the originally self-chosen caricature as the angry, profane shrill extreme left icon and ride this wave to some level of fame (a la Coulter and Malkin), or she can develop some discipline and maturity in her ramblings and temper her angry rhetoric now that she knows she's being elevated to a position as leader of the blogcentric opposition.
ReplyDeleteIt's her choice and either path has both rewards and drawbacks. But what I see coming is a tug of war between the MSOC "love you for your anger and profanity" faithful and those looking out for the best interest of the party and its message. The resulting inescapable suppression of MSOC's true nature coming from her own allies will be the most disgusting display of the way things really are under the long lost lofty ideals of the First Amendment.
What I object to is the false and misleading notion that any one blogger can be singled out and held up as representative of what we do here.
ReplyDeleteBingo.
Excellent article as always. And I agree, Glen, that there was a lot of mischaracterization in this article, not only of Maryscott's excellent posts over the years, but also of many of the very thoughtful responses, which Finkel just ignored entirely and painted the entire left blogosphere with one very messy brush.
ReplyDeleteThat being said, I would like to defend being angry. I know I am, and everyone I personally know is. But the difference that I've witnessed, is where the angry right advocates such things as putting the left in concentration camps, and other over the top responses, etc., those of us who are angry on the left are not only angry at this administration, we have REASONS for being angry. And we state what those are. Waging an illegal war, shredding our Constitution, outsourcing our jobs... and our Democracy, torturing innocent people in the name of "freedom", wiretapping phones, and probably illegally searching people's property, disappearing people, throwing away habeus corpus, squandering our treasury, raping our environment, etc... it's hard to find the end of the insults, injuries and atrocities that this administration has hurled upon this nation and the world. And while I might despise such people as Ann Coulter and George W. Bush, what I and many others really hate is what is happening to the country we love. Certainly we look to those responsible, but in the end it's the amount of helplessness we feel to stop this madness that fuels our rage.
This is healthy outrage however. It's been said, "If you aren't outraged, you aren't paying attention." If we weren't angry then we wouldn't have the impetus to change things. And change things we must. And stop this we must, if we want to have a country left to give to our children that still has the Constitution and Democracy at its heart.
Apathy on the left has actually been partially responsible for the situation we are now in. Too many people who are directly affected by this administration's actions didn't vote last time. Anger may be the thing that motivates them to get to the polls in '06, and may get ack the House or Senate, or both for us -- if they don't steal the election again.
Anger is not necessarily bad, if it changes things. Righteous outrage is a useful tool. Unfortunately, Finkel doesn't show this distinction. And that is where the spin is.
I think Maryscott knew that this would be a 'hit piece,' and simply decided to take one for the team. Let's hope this at least keeps her in the spotlight, so that she can continue to go on tv and kick some serious ass. Because she did.
ReplyDeleteIf she wanted to take one for the team, she should have declined. Her self-prescribed public primal-scream therapy does not help the cause.
No use denying it: many are angry at the current state of world affairs, as well they should be. I don't think any of us disagree with that.
ReplyDeleteBut remember, those who think and care will not be swayed by the WaPo's caraciture, and those who will are not involved in the conversation anyway.
All the same, a link to the WaPo blog is called for.
The MSM has reason to fear the internet.
O'Connor was certainly easy and ripe pickings for a piece like Finkels. It appears this blogger is starved for attention and let compulsive personal ambition for fame blind her to reality. At the least, the behavior seems shockingly immature. At the worst, narcissistic and purposefully self-serving. The damage done is substantial.
ReplyDeleteO'Connor was certainly easy and ripe pickings for a piece like Finkels. It
ReplyDeleteWell said -- she should have known something was up when he would not use the bathroom. WTF, did he pee on the walls like chimpy used to do in the WH when daddy was preznut?
Did he sh#t behind the sofa? Perhaps he used a litter box....
Either way, sick sick sick. She should have known something was up.
Glenn,
ReplyDeleteWow, I guess we couldn’t also consider a blogger using posts of other bloggers to further an argument that Bush supporters are “cultists” or mindless, unquestioning followers to broadly paint a gross characterization of opposing views & discount those views. Using your own criteria that “…the tactics in the article are as intellectually lazy and empty as they are transparently deceitful and trite. There is no cheaper or emptier form of argumentation than to isolate a specific individual, describe her, and then, without any basis, ascribe those attributes generally to some larger group -- in this case, a much, much larger and more diverse group…” aren’t your arguments of the “Bush Cultists” as mindless followers & your last post against Powerline’s attacks on the retired US generals questioning of Rumsfeld’s decisions regarding Iraq just as “intellectually lazy” or an equally “emptier form of argumentation…” as well. Aren’t your postings then just as cheap or empty under such scrutiny, or is it the case that such terminology only applies to right side of blogsphere? Are you not just as guilty & arguments just as hollow in return?
anon writes: O'Connor was certainly easy and ripe pickings for a piece like Finkels. It appears this blogger is starved for attention and let compulsive personal ambition for fame blind her to reality. At the least, the behavior seems shockingly immature.
ReplyDeleteThis is exactly what should not happen. This woman holds many views I do not share, but she holds them sincerely. She's intemperate in her rhetoric, as are many of her commenters.
But for a reporter of a major national news organ to focus on her nearly exclusively, is to do her undeserved harm. She has a right to her little corner of the blogosphere without being pilloried as a disaster by those who largely agree with her. That reporter made her the news of the day, but she could not have anticipated that or what the motive really was. She is just another person, seemingly unsophisticated regarding the ways of reporters, taking her pen to cyberspace.
I disagree with much she says, but it would be totally wrong to turn on her for the way she was used by that WaPo reporter.
pmain, I know your questions weren't directed at me, but short answer: no.
ReplyDeletewe have REASONS for being angry. And we state what those are. Waging an illegal war, shredding our Constitution, outsourcing our jobs... and our Democracy, torturing innocent people in the name of "freedom", wiretapping phones, and probably illegally searching people's property, disappearing people, throwing away habeus corpus, squandering our treasury, raping our environment, etc... it's hard to find the end of the insults, injuries and atrocities that this administration has hurled upon this nation and the world. And while I might despise such people as Ann Coulter and George W. Bush, what I and many others really hate is what is happening to the country we love. Certainly we look to those responsible, but in the end it's the amount of helplessness we feel to stop this madness that fuels our rage.
ReplyDeleteAnd as much as I despise what the GOP are doing, I don't see much hope for a return to individual civil liberties and privacy rights with Dems in control. These erosions have been occuring over the last 2-3 decades, and the corporate world is deeply invested and entrenched in the way things have become. Neither party has the will to "fix" it all, it's too rewarding to those in power.
I suggest that
ReplyDelete1) We should resist being divided. MSOC's writing is her own. I believe it would be an error for most of us to be drawn into a fruitless exercise of either supporting or criticizing her in this context, regardless of our personal opinions. Private support (or constructive criticism) sent directly to her is of course an entirely separate matter. Incidentally, that is how I moderate any online dispute, not just this one.
2) We respond on the Post blog with cool, rational and voluminous discourse citing the overwhelming evidence that the right blogosphere is far more angry, abusive and senseless than the left. Such evidence is, of course, statistical in nature. Isolated posts have exactly nothing to do with the question.
3) I suggest, in this context, that we refrain from even mentioning being angry for good reason. Save that for other situations, where we are not walking into a deliberately set trap.
aren’t your arguments of the “Bush Cultists” as mindless followers & your last post against Powerline’s attacks on the retired US generals questioning of Rumsfeld’s decisions regarding Iraq just as “intellectually lazy” or an equally “emptier form of argumentation…”
ReplyDeleteThere is nothing inherently corrupt or improper about describing the predominant characteristics of the behavior of certain groups. There are entire fields of academic discipline devoted to doing just that, and I can't imagine how anyone could discuss nations, political movements, large institutions or a whole host of other things without doing exactly that.
What is corrupt is to ground the conclusions about the group exclusively in the isolated behavior of single constituent parts of that group, and simply assert, with no basis, that the singular behavior is illustrative of the group itself. The enterprise itself isn't corrupt, just that particular tactic.
That distinction seems clearly to have eluded you, so you may want to go back and re-read the post òf mine with which you seem to be somewhat obssessed (don't worry - you're not alone there), as well as the WashPost article in question, and I trust that distinction will become clearer to you. At least it ought to.
Glenn, I don't mean that you criticized MSOC's views or methods, and I get that she and you seem fine with the Right using them to caricature her/us. What I meant, and maybe this wasn't clear in my initial comment, is that press/political attention from journalists, pundits, and political types to Democratic/progressive leaders and movements seems to be geared towards identifying our leaders, and analyzing what's wrong with them. Heck, we do it too. But the message I often hear from the Right and their associates in the media, below the actual words and analyses, is this: "Your leaders suck. Whoever they are, by virtue of the fact that they're your leaders, they suck. What are you going to do about that?"
ReplyDeleteAnd our response has frequently been to internalize the legitimacy and accuracy of that critique, without even asking "We're supposed to let *you* tell us who our leaders are, and evaluate their performance, and assume you're not even trying to screw with our heads?" - and we often reply, "Well, yes, Howard Dean is angry" or "Yes, Nancy Pelosi is from San Francisco" or "Yes, Harry Reid is quiet" or "Al Gore and John Kerry are wooden" - and sometimes these things are true, or at least, represent perceptions that we need to address in order to get more public support, but sometimes, it's just attacks for the sake of attacks, and the implicit challenge isn't only "Is (leader/poster person) actually (unflattering trait)?" but also "And when we attack one of your leaders, what are you going to do about it? Hunh?"
I don't know, maybe that's not a vibe anyone else gets from this coverage, or the most important issue here, but it makes me feel like we're getting our wings clipped, and then saying, "Well, yeah, they were sort of long and unruly anyway."
Ooh, ooh, nooo--literate librul female blogging sass 'n snark! Help! Hellp! Save ussss!
ReplyDeleteHewitt was online at WaPo on Friday.
ReplyDeleteHere's my favorite excerpt:
"The lefty blogs are like lead pipes, posioning the information they serve up to the Democrats. Just this morning Kos was touting the Democratic candidate running against J.D. Hayworth in Arizona's 5th. I hoep that the KosKids run off and contribute a bunch of their limited resources to a doomed candidate, just as they did in California's 50th.
On the other hand, sine the center-right blogs are both better written, better argued, and funnier --and avoid the vulgarity and profanity that dominate so many of thelefty blogs-- they are copper pipes and are significant assists to the GOP in every cycle. There's an extended chapter on this in the book, which picks up on some arguments SoxBlog.com began.
I also think that Townhall.com will become a huge force in '06 and '08."
What I object to is the false and misleading notion that any one blogger can be singled out and held up as representative of what we do here.
ReplyDeleteThat's true in some ideal, utopian sense. But MSOC has the opportunity to catapult herself into the left's Ann Coulter, which could be quite a rewarding experience. However, when we ask moderate conservatives to denounce the rantings of Coulter, Robertson and their ilk, and they refuse to do so by exclaiming that they're not representative of true conservatives, we hold them responsible nonetheless because they refuse to put those loonies back on the fringe. The same will be said for us if we just sit back and let MSOC rise into her Angry Left leadership role and refuse to denounce her extremist rhetoric. We will be accepting her role as representative of our views.
Don't get me wrong, I really like her banal screeds simply because they're fringe, and I'd hate to see her tamp it down as the result of our inevitable pressure to rein her in.
Are we going to embrace and support her undisciplined angry caricature (which I happen to love), or are we going to denounce it because we're better than the lameass chickenshit conservatives?
Not to interrupt this discussion, but I meant to post this on a former thread. I think anyone reading this will see things from a whole new perspective.
ReplyDeleteHypatia, you might enjoy this if you have never read it.
Glenn,
ReplyDeleteI have read the Post article & I have read your posts. I argued then, as I do now, that they were gross characterization by you & extremely hollow. I don’t see the difference in your using what Powerline or Michelle Malkin’s blogs to paint the supporters of the Bush administration in such broad terms any different than the WAPO’s Finkel using the posted words of Maryscott O’Connor as examples as well. If you can argue that the posters or commentors on right to moderate/right leaning blogs represent the mindset or beliefs of the right, then their gross characterizations of left are equally valid. I am not saying that that form of argument cannot be effectively used or valid, only that the same shadow of doubt covers your arguments as well. If those having opposing points of view are closed minded, then you using those same tactics are as well. If their opinions don’t count, yours don’t as well. How is it any less valid to say that O’Connor’s posting about or views on the administration are angry or representative of the left & then to say that Powerline’s questioning of retired Generals exemplifies the right’s ignoring of the reality or view expressed by those generals?
To Glenn and my fellow participants:
ReplyDeleteFinkel's article is a piece of insignificant dribble written by a shallow lazy idiot. Not one person's opinion was changed by his rant. Being a little older than most of your readers I will tell you, unfortunately, I too am saddened by the mindless invectives hurled by way too many of the writers on progressive sites. To say the other side has more quantity and quality of hatred is foolish and useless, albeit correct. I have strolled from site to site looking for a group that I feel comfortable in. To your credit Glenn, yours comes closest to fullfilling that goal. Our national discourse has descended into the Bloods and the Crips. They have 76% morons, we have 68%. Great! In the end "The Play's the Thing." How much more impact we would have if we reduced the temperature of our rhetoric and used cognitive stilletos rather than repackaged vulgarities. Let Limbaugh's merry band of brown shirts swirl in their whirlpool of regurgitated puke.(Why are they so proud of proclaiming to be "Dildo from Kansas?" I quess I'm too old to understand.) Any way, I could go on and on, and I will, if I don't overstay my welcome and maybe get invited back. Good reasoned prose is such a powerful tonic that you never get tired of it. After you finish Carlin's seven words, what have you got? Republicans. And please don't confuse me with a pacifist. I'm a naturalized citizen from Russia, having given up everything to breath the blessed air of America. I just prefer a knitting pin into the lobe behind the ear than a baseball bat in the face.
Dasvidanyia good people
Glenn, you do important work exposing the right for its extremism and hate. It's a valuable way to contrast their public "values" with what they actually say. Now Mary Scott O'Connor is quoted in the Washington Post saying, among many inflammatory things, that she wishes Bush would contract incurable cancer. I can't see any substantial difference between her and Ann Coulter. O'Connor is living proof that the left is as crazy as the right, she just hasn't had the opportunity to make as much money at it yet. She has single handedly killed your argument.
ReplyDelete...that she wishes Bush would contract incurable cancer.
ReplyDeleteYou mean because of the illegal use of depleted uranium weapons?
You have the audacity to comment here, judging another writer's work and motives, but you will not put them in context or address the larger criminality that is behind this entire thread?
Since when is it appropriate to change the topic from the treasonous war criminals that are continuing to commit crimes against humanity and proclaim that the problem is those that write about it?
Thanks for getting up on your tiny little soapbox, but you are not bringing anything useful to the dialog.
This is a frustrating topic. Read the Leftosphere and you'll see them write about how vicious and hateful the Rightosphere is. Read the Rightosphere and you'll read how angry and disgusting the Leftosphere is. Both sides are able to produce ample evidence to back up their argument.
ReplyDeleteI went through this exact same discussion with Ted Rall some time back, and he conceded the point.
It's frustrating, because it's so transparently ridiculous that one side is somehow more virtuous than the other. Decency, taste and seriousness is not ideological.
The problem is confirmation bias: people tend to notice and remember invective aimed at their side; they tend to dismiss invective aimed at the other side.
A secondary problem is interpretation. When you start out from different premises and with the assumption that you're on opposite teams, it's easy to misinterpret -- or put the worst possible spin on -- statements made by your opponent. Friends get passes, enemies get the rhetorical knife.
The Post reporter was simply telling a story. Is it unfair to discuss the "angry left" aspect of the blogosphere? I don't know. Probably no less unfair than discussing the "authoritarian cultists". (ahem)
I certainly wish people would pay attention to the serious conversations rather than the bomb-throwers. But major bloggers on the Left -- e.g., Atrios, Willis, etc -- certainly spend their fair share of time discussing idiots on the right, so I'm not sure the Leftosphere is terribly qualified to start fussing about turnabout.
EWO writes: Hypatia, you might enjoy this if you have never read it.
ReplyDeleteI've read excerpts of Rand's HUAC testimony before, and altho I do not endrose her entire worldview, I respect what she did there at HUAC and largely agree. That said, I think we should not take over every thread here with the discussion of the sins of Stalinists. I said (and said and said) what I had to say about all that in two threads below.
i don't know the maryscott o'connor blog,
ReplyDeletebut it makes me angry to see a weblog journalist/op-ed writer spotlighted like this
and, as a consequence,
come to be the focus of lots of silly chatter --
"did she or didn't she say ..." ,
"should she or shouldn't she have said ...".
the real focus should be on finkel and the wapoop editors,
which is where ggr puts it.
o'connor has a right to say anything she pleases.
.
.
the "angry left" is nothing more than a recently minted journalist stereotype.
journalists love stereotypes; editors love stereotypes.
it makes their jobs so much easier. and they fancy it helps them connect with their ("dumb") readers.
i suspect institutional journalists like david finkel,
and his editor at wapoop,
never met a stereotype they didn't like.
personally, i really don't care what the wapoop writes about the weblog world.
for me, since fall 2005,
weblogs have become an essential source of accurate and detailed information on many important political and social issues,
e.g., "the next hurrah" and "the left coaster" (among others)
for their persistent, thorough, and insightful autopsy of the white house attack on valerie and joseph wilson and the related false claim by bush and cheney about iraq seeking uranium for nuclear weapons.
my "favorites" folder in outlook express
which holds the two or three dozen weblogs i read regularly is labeled
"media criticism".
not
"politics",
or
"left wing"
or
"my guys".
just
"media criticism".
that's how i view "uncharted territory", "anonymous liberal", "hullabaloo", et al.
that's what is important about weblogs like "think progress", "talking points memo", "carpetbagger", "talkleft" , etc, etc.
these two or three dozen blogs provide me with stories, information, and opinion i rarely find
in the Washington post, the new york times, or the l.a. times
and (with rare exceptions)never, ever find in the newspapers of smaller cities and towns in the u.s.
so finkel can write and wapoop can publish anything they want to, good or bad, about these weblogs,
but it won't make a rat's ass worth of difference to me.
from the time "brill's content" folded,
until approximately 2004,
when a number of weblogs began to publish
there was no accountability for the large papers and magazines
none!!
now there is plenty of accountability
the washington post and the new york times
and their cowardly editors
and their career-serving journalists
folks like john harris, judy miller, elizabeth bumiller, jim vanderhei, fred hiatt, robert woodward, len downey, bill keller.
and boy does this nation need them to be held accountable.
so
write on maryscott,
right on !!!!
i'm heading over to your weblog right now to see what the fuss was about.
i'll bet it's tame stuff compared to
the commercial ranting of limbaugh,
or
the "ratings journalism" of blitzer or russert,
fellow professionals of david finkel.
My friend Jon H. writes: The Post reporter was simply telling a story. Is it unfair to discuss the "angry left" aspect of the blogosphere? I don't know. Probably no less unfair than discussing the "authoritarian cultists". (ahem)
ReplyDeleteJon, now come on. That piece was "showing" that the "left" is of-a-sudden particularly crude and crazy. It isn't so. Whatever may be wrong with discussing "authoritarian cultists" -- and I've always recoiled from that meme Glenn introduced, it is sociologically inaccurate-- they are not described as singularly vile and filthy in their rhetoric, as that WaPo article would indicate all of the left is.
But major bloggers on the Left -- e.g., Atrios
ReplyDeleteGive me a break -- you are talking about the faux "advertise liberally" crowd that believes if enough wealthy people were democrats, then we would have no reason to discuss economic issues at all.
There was a time the word "liberal" was used to refer to people that were willing to talk about economic injustice and the root causes of this country's greatest problems -- socio-economic warfare against working people.
Now morons like FDL and atrios have stolen the term to create a "brand" that has nothing to do with liberal traditions at all.
And now you want to use those folk's to criticize real liberals....
Idiot!
You have got to be kidding.
ReplyDeleteComparing Mary Scott O'Connor to Bob Dylan is like comparing a three year old's fingerpainting to Rembrandt.
The resulting inescapable suppression of MSOC's true nature coming from her own allies will be the most disgusting display of the way things really are under the long lost lofty ideals of the First Amendment.
ReplyDeleteSuppress MSOC? It's been tried. It failed. She is who she is and makes no apologies for that.
Glenn, congrats on a well-written post. I had tried to make some of the same points over at my blog, but I don't have the skills you obviously possess to connect all of the dots in such a refined way.
Glenn "When people like this feel weak and small, they need to lash out, to re-establish their warrior credentials."
ReplyDeleteLOL
Well said Glenn....
ReplyDeleteI think this hit piece is a classic example of the old Ghandi saying...
First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then...
You Win.
Mr. Greenwald,
ReplyDeleteYour response to Finkel's egregious article stands out as the best responses to WaPo's fallacious reporting among all I've read.
Accordingly, I hope you do not object that I posted excerpts from your wonderful article at Swiftspeech.
Thank you for your brilliant response, which dwarfs Finkle's pedestrian writing and his substandard "journalism," for lack of a better term.
Oh for criminy sakes.
ReplyDeleteMaryscott Oconnor winds up featured in the WaPo, in a very well written, though not necessarily sympathetic portrait by someone who says he knows nothing of blogging, and the entire lefty blogosphere is in meltdown. [slapping silly] STOP IT! GET A GRIP ON YOURSELVES! NOW![/slapping silly.]
This is just amazing.
You all know, don't you, that "The Angry Left" is the stock description of the entirety of the "irresponsible" left utilized by the right wing hate media. It's been applied primarily to the lefty blogosphere by the hate media lately, simply because the lefty blogosphere has become so very huge, and there are NO Big Media outlets that acknowledge, let alone cover, liberal or lefty interests/concerns.
Maryscott is as good an example of the Angry Left as one could ask for.
And the piece is fine. No, it doesn't cover the hate media on the right, but that's not its purpose. It is meant solely to further the right wing characterization of the lefty blogosphere (remember, there is really no other mass media for the left wing in this country) as wild and furious and unhinged.
Never mind Malkin and Coulter. They're "entertainers." Limbaugh, too. (BTW, he does NOT have "20 million daily listeners," disabuse yourself of that idiotic notion right now. It is closer to 4 million or fewer per day. He hasn't consistently been able to draw 20 million a week for years, and his audience has long been in decline.)
And Hewitt is having a field day -- criticizing the Post for not being even more anti-blog. Of course Hewitt is doing this on his own right wing blog. Hewitt, the good pal of Jim Brady. WaPo dot com honcho. You see how it all fits together? If right wing hate blogs had any readers it might matter... but they don't.
Embrace your anger. Nothing wrong with it. And at least Finkel lists some reasons why lefty bloggers -- and Maryscott herself -- might be a little bit pissed. That's more than Hewitt would ever do. His canard is that the left is angry by nature, for no reason whatsoever, much as the bully insists he never hit the kid crying in the corner of the playground. It's just that kid's nature to cry for no reason.
It's past time to grasp that anger and use it to fight back.
I was dismayed by that article too, and was looking for an email contact for that reporter to give him a piece of my mind - you know, the Angry Left.
ReplyDeleteThen I started thinking about how I first found the blogs. It was 2001 and I had realized just how badly the news was slanted by watching Cspan and comparing what I was seeing there, with my own eyes, to the misleading news reports in print and on TV. The news kept talking about this thing called blogging and I was desperate to find other sources of information.
I wasn't very net savy and I kind of stumbled around until I found the Left Coaster. They are pretty hard core there, and most of what they were talking about sailed right over my head, so I started clicking on the blogroll. (Ahh, that feels so long ago; Atrios was still anonymous, Billmon was just getting started and Kos didn't even have diaries!) I found the information I was seeking, I found community and I found the strength to become an activist and an informed voice to resist the radical right agenda of this adminstration.
So this is my point, our interconnectiveness is our strength and it is why we are replacing the traditional press as an information source. Those who know the blogosphere know what a slanted nasty little piece this was and those who don't know may tune in just to see the freak show and discover our diverisity and value. So I decided not to sweat about it; we are what we are and no one hatchet job is going to hurt us for long. I do wish her shirt hadn't looked so much like a bathrobe though.
the difference between the liberal weblogs i read,
ReplyDeleteand many right-wing weblogs,
is the difference between disapproval of lying
and
approval of lying.
the "left" weblog journalists/oped writers that i read are
compulsively,
thoroughly,
consciously,
honest.
the left weblogs i read respect factual honesty and intellectual honesty, in what they write.
i don't know a weblog site i read that would not be truly embarrassed to be caught in a lie.
on the other side of the creek,
however,
many right-wing web sites tend to practice "relative ethics" when it comes to factual or intellectual truth.
truth is o.k.,
if not too inconvenient,
but
lying is o.k., too,
when it benefits "the cause",
i.e., the republican party,
or
the "great revolution" that is coming,
or
is necessary to protect one's access to the benefits available from powerful politicians.
in bluntest form possible,
many right-winger weblogs lie when it is convenient.
david finkel and his editor want to focus on anger,
fine,
but what about an audit, sometime,
of true or false assertions?
and the putative benefits of lying.
What about a Google Bomb? In your blog website what have you, link to this post and use the words "Angry Liberal Left" in bold to describe the link. Then when someone searches for the Angry Liberal Left they see this well thought out and very even minded rebuttal. Who's with me?
ReplyDeleteTo those who were concerned about MSOC being used as a tool by the right:
ReplyDeleteIf you're angry, and you say what's on your mind, you'll be caricatured by the right. If you show restraint, you'll still be caricatured. It doesn't matter what the left says or does, it will always be caricatured by the right. Their lack of restraint has not hurt them.
It is a cardinal rule of propaganda that you may never express doubt in your own position. Once you do that, you lose the ability to convince people that you're totally right and the other side is totally wrong.
The left hems and haws (and quite frankly, isn't really 'left' in any sense except in their opposition to the right), but the right, in the face of anything, will maintain that they are right.
It's propaganda, it works, and they'll do it no matter what we say. So, to me, we may as well say what we're really feeling, and we may as well be angry. 'Cause, ya know, I AM angry, and that anger indicates a strong belief, something the left supposedly does not hold.
Paul Rosenberg wrote:
ReplyDeleteBut I differ, I guess, because I don't think that's the end of it, I don't see the piece in isolation. I see it as part of all sorts of trajectories. And that's why I differ on my judgment about it. It will not stand alone, IMHO.
The problem, Paul, is that too many will only see this piece "in isolation" without checking out the actual content behind the rage and expletives.
As I wrote over at my place, MSOC has known for a long time how difficult I find it to read through her rants and focus on the message because of her style. And that's me - a lefty blogger.
She's already being attacked far and wide in right-wing land as being indicative of what we on the left stand for and that has now been fueled by this WaPo article. Haven't we got enough of a fight on our hands without having a major newspaper setting up even more roadblocks for us - especially during another crucial election year?
This is just The Dean Scream revisited.
Excellent post, Glenn. You hit the nail right on the proverbial head.
ReplyDeleteThe reporter claimed that he didn't have an angle in mind, but, in fact, he did: The Angry Left. So he did minimal research to find something that would fit with his pre-determined "angle".
His article really wasn't about the blogosphere or even the "liberal" blogosphere. It was about one blog that fit his definition of "the angry left". That's nothing short of lazy journalism, which does nothing but give serious, dedicated journalists a bad name.
One doesn't have to be part of the stereotypical, fringe left in order to rant about this administration. By most accounts, my outward appearance with regard to my age, education, family, neighborhood, dress, job, income, etc., would peg me as a Bush-loving Republican. As the old adage says, don't judge a book by its cover.
The myth that this reporter extends is that the dislike and distrust of the Bush administration is somehow limited to a small band of unbalanced, freakish, liberal tree-huggers who have nothing better to do than rant and scream for attention. Nothing could be further from the truth. This is about smart, successful Americans of all ages who are enraged that their leaders have engaged in unethical and illegal behavior in the name of this country. And it's no as much about politics, per se, as it is about the fundamental differences between right and wrong.
Clearly, the reporter doesn't understand this. And neither do his readers.
There is no left. There is no right.
ReplyDeleteThere are only those who argue over definitions
of words that cannot be defined.
There are those who will
write dictionaries for none.
And those who will write history for all.
I have watched the few
wield quills of blood and
wipe ink from their swords.
I foresee the many placated not with
bread and circus, but
a blank page and a pencil and
always an enemy.
A mirror is the perfect devil.
Always the inverse and always there.
Vivid descriptions to the sketch artist,
crudely mocked in caricature, but
recognizable as the accuser.
Do we all have to wake slashed and scarred
in blood, glass and silver
to realize we are not through the other side?
Sentient only in reflection.
Oh Alice,
Oh the alchemy of metals and sand
and the wonder of smallness.
I come not to praise moderation.
Moderation is only knowing the
proper amount to drink
to sleep the longest.
I come to raise a glass to
those who chew lead and wood
for they will inherit the meek.
"DRINK ME" she cried, I am the tincture
of blood and silver.
Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteand whats with this liberal holiday tomorrow celebrating the erection of christ?
is that sick or what?
What? Christ had an erection? The right wing fundamentalist christians are gonna get you now for sure. :)
Glenn:
ReplyDeleteOh, I'm sorry but try being a little less precious - this is exactly the kind of thumb-sucking you get on the right whenever someone in the MSM has the unmitigated gall to say something disobliging about Ann Coulter or the more rabid commentators on right-wing blogs.
To be honest, if the blogisphere means the loony left and rabid right are venting spleen others save up for burning down embassies and throwing rocks through people's windows I'm very pleased. But I think it's time all of us spenr a little more energy policing our own, instead of screeching 'bias' whenever anyone speaks an uncomfortable truth.
Her performance on Faux TV was indicative of this. She didn't come across at all the way she was portrayed. It was a very effective appearance.
ReplyDeleteThat's the suppression I'm talking about. She showed herself to be mature and calm sans her trademark ranting that her fans are deeply invested in. Good for her that she disproved the angry left stereotype in that one tv appearance, but bad or should I say disappointing for her fan base who are wanting to see the angry MSOC as she is in her more private realm on the blogs.
The longer this angry left profiling in the MSM continues using her as a tool, the greater the divide amongst her fans.
On one hand you've got people praising her for NOT personifying the "queen bitch of the angry left" onscreen, while others are trying to embrace the stereotype and defend the anger as justifiable. They are praising MSOC for being one of the ones chosen to advance this rage, confident that she'll remain her entertaining, undisciplined angry self.
That's the battle I'm talking about. Soon she will have to deliver some of that rage to her fans onscreen, or risk losing the public support of those who love her for her rage.
If half the blogosphere is cheering her on as their ranting angry left icon, and she suppresses rage in her television appearances, then who is it these people really support?
paul rosenberg (10:13)
ReplyDeletethanks for the cites. they sound interesting.
the pdf file with altmeyer's article does not link.
can you fix this?
"honesty and passion"? Narcissists by nature of the illness are unable to be honest. A hallmark of the disorder is the ability to convince you otherwise with the creation of a fraudulent and artificial public persona developed through grandiose fantasies.
ReplyDeleteI consider myself a liberal, leftist, progressive person and I AM angry. If you are paying attention to what's being done to this country by the creeps in power, you will be outraged and yes, angry. What's wrong with that?
ReplyDeleteThere was a persistent troll-disruptor who called himself "Ace" on Salon Tabletalk for a long time. I don't know if this is the same guy. Just a heads up.
ReplyDeleteYes, very interesting. Here's the link to the pdf, orionATL:
ReplyDelete"Political Conservatism as Motivated Social Cognition" [PDF]
We need to be on the lookout for accusations that we're "angry." While people here are correct that anger is justified, Bushco has begun to make a habit of describing its critics and opponents as "angry." The purpose is to insinuate that something foul and sinister lurks beneath the anger. That's easy enough to do; anger scares people, and they react emotionally to it. Knowing this, listen for "angry" liberals etc. to crop up more often in their rhetoric.
ReplyDeleteI'm thinking in particular of some Bushco op (Rove? RNC chair?) who not long ago was quoted in the media as saying that Hilary Clinton is "angry." This is code for "Hilary Clinton is gay," because of course angry woman-->feminist-->manhater-->lesbian. The horror ... the horror.
Over the next couple or so years, Bushco will be harping on anger and its fellow travelers. It would be nice if we could tone down the anger or reframe it. Who knows? Maybe we could even toss it back to Bushco, where it belongs.
The Washington Post article is shocking in its lack of objectivity and belongs on the OpEd page with all the other opinions.
ReplyDeleteGlenn, your post as usual is right on and the commenters have some excellent points as well. I would ask the question, perhaps the reason the blogosphere is dismissed so readily by the MSM is that they haven't thought of participating YET. To engage them might be a worthwhile endeavor. To ask them to comment off their own pulpit certainly would be a frightening position ... would they be commenting as "Tim Russert from Meet the Press" and take that stance? Myself, I think I'll start sending over specific posts and asking them to participate in the comment section. Hey, exposure, sunlight, that kind of thing? Color me naive but maybe they need to be invited to the party, given a few drinks and carrots?
ReplyDeleteej (12:21)
ReplyDeletegot it.
link worked fine.
thanks.
To tell Glen to defend MSOC is ridiculous. She knew what she was doing, and she actually liked the end result. And, no, I am not jealous, as is the first accusation whenever someone criticizes MSOC. I happen to have had more than 15 minutes of fame and personally prefer getting things done behind the scene and preserving my privacy.
ReplyDeleteAt first I was mad at Finkel for the hatchet job, but the more I read Maryscott O’Connor’s comments on the blogs and self promotion, the more I got upset with her. She knew what she was getting into, but her narcissism and constant need for attention (even bad attention) overrode her logic. She also admitted knowing in advance they were going to portray her as the example of the angry left, and was proud to carry the baton. Well, I am angrier than her and she doesn’t speak for me. I wouldn’t let my ego override the opportunity to really make an impactful statement on the usefulness of blogs as an equalizer, a message totally lost on the article.
We can blame Finkel all we want, but something tells me someone like Kos would have handled the opportunity with more finesse and skill. Maryscott O’Conor so completely lacks awareness that 1) She actually thought the piece was good and made her look good and 2) She was proud of it and 3) She got snarky and defensive when her echo chamber over at Kos finally had members who called it out for what it was...a hit piece. WaPo specifically chose MSOC to represent the "angry left" because she is an easy target with her Omarosaish need for attention and ego fulfillment. It's kind of like Paris Hilton who thinks any attention is good attention, like her videos having sex, , regardless of bigger picture. What’s next for MSOC?
WaPo wasn’t going to interview someone like Firedoglake's writer, because they wouldn't have been able to get the ammo MSOC so easily hands them. While I love her ranting and writing on blogs, I completely cringe every time she deals with the MSM in any way. From the radio show, the Fox interview, to now the WaPo article, she always steps deep into it instead of seizing the opportunity to get a valid point across. She is like a little kid who will act out in class because even when he pisses off the entire class with his rude and dysfunctional behavior, he is still getting the attention he craves as a byproduct of that disruption. That’s MSOC.
Maryscott is so easily manipulated...a MSM editor's dream and left's nightmare. She should take one of the Wellstone or other activist trainings on how to deal with the media. She continually fails on all accounts, the least of which is her lack of framing. The fact she doesn't seem to mind she was also portrayed as a really bad mother-- again shows the total lack of self awareness, or maybe the blinding need for the spotlight above all else. Someone, please, please give the lady and acting job and leave the job of "speaking for the left" to someone who a little less narcissistic.
Meteor Blades said...
ReplyDeleteFrom one of the Anonymouses:
Totally agree with your 10:10 posts. MSOC isn't doing these public appearances to advance a bigger agenda, she is doing it for her own personal ego gratification. She lacks the media skills to be effective, yet gets upset when people call her out for what she is really doing...prostituting herself for a little attention.
If she came out and repeatedly said, "I don't speak for anyone on the left but myself"...guess what? She won't be called to appear. So, she is labeled as the poster girl for the left and she accepts that label gladly because it helps her promote her own agenda. Cindy Sheehan is an angry left I can hold up as someone I am not ashamed of every time she interacts with the MSM, even though I don't always agree with her. I agree with MSOC at least 90% of the time, but cringe at her putting her agenda first, and using us to serve that personal agenda. She wouldn't be story if she only spoke for herself, contrary to the claims of innocence she manipulatively protests.
thinkbeforereacting wrote:
ReplyDeleteThe fact she doesn't seem to mind she was also portrayed as a really bad mother-- again shows the total lack of self awareness, or maybe the blinding need for the spotlight above all else.
I cringed when I read that part of the WaPo article and I have to agree with your assessment of the situation.
paul rosenberg wrote:
ReplyDeleteDear Catnip:
Grow up!
Kerry was attacked simultaneously for being "the most liberal Democrat in the US Senate" and for being an unprincipled flip-flopper. Clearly, there is no requirement for any consistency or factual foundation for any attack mounted by the right. Worrying about what they will say is just doing their jobs for them.
You don't like reading Maryscott? Fine. Don't read her. Problem solved.
I didn't say I was worried about what the right says. I'm concerned about what Joe and Jane Average, who don't know spit about blogs, take away from that article.
And I didn't say that I don't like reading her rants. I said I find it difficult because I know she's got good content, but it's hard sifting through the rage and the expletives to find it. That's what I wrote about over at my blog in response to this piece.
And don't call me "dude" or tell me to "grow up". I'm a mid 40s grandmother and I don't appreciate being spoken down to by someone who's trying to make their point in a debate.
Bushco has begun to make a habit of describing its critics and opponents as "angry".
ReplyDeleteand
To tell Glen to defend MSOC is ridiculous. She knew what she was doing, and she actually liked the end result.
At first I was mad at Finkel for the hatchet job, but the more I read Maryscott O’Connor’s comments on the blogs and self promotion, the more I got upset with her.
The first comment above describes a real and dangerous phenomenon because we are in the middle of a monumental War of Ideas in this country and if the wrong "ideas" prevail, the future of this country and perhaps a good deal of the world will be put in lethal jeopardy. Every tactic the "wrong side" uses in its attempt to perpetuate its ability to threaten our freedoms and our very lives should be identified, debunked and discredited.
The second comment describes my reaction exactly. It was jarring to see Glenn point out the dangers of that type of article in a prominent newspaper and then go to that site and see the prevailing mood there was a celebration of that very article because it gives MOSC more media exposure.
I never heard of this person before Glenn linked to her site. Five minutes on her childish and mindless blog was enough to convince me she and her followers are simply another demonstration of the "cult of narcissitic personality" which seems to describe the goals and tactics of many, if not most, of the "liberal" blogger hosts and their "paintball" mentality readerships.
I don't care about their media "careers" and their attempts to maximize their own fifteen minutes of fame. They can fiddle around with self-promotion and rah rah gibberish while Rome burns but why would any serious person waste his time watching them do so?
These are not the people who are going to have any influence in changing the direction of this country, and every minute on one of their essentially anti-intellectual sites is a minute not spent on a site like this or anti-war.com or the sites which discuss and dissect the legal issues which are at the core of our current crisis.
This site is one of the few non-legal sites where the comment section is itself instructive as opposed to being an exercise in sheer frustration.
This lady is free to do whatever she wants and those who enjoy reading her blog are free to do so.
But what does she or her site or other sites like that have to do with a serious exploration of ideas and a discussion of how citizens not involved in media or government can educate themselves so they can formulate rational positions and then participate in effectuating change?
Even some of the "better" liberal blogs leave me cold although they often contain useful information.
For instance, when a blog host himself puts up "Yeah, yeah, another stupid thread" every day, I am insulted that he thinks I would want to keep visiting that site. If I have time to waste on "stupid", which I do not, I'll listen to Sean Hannity.
One of the great things about antiwar.com, a site which consistently features incredibly thought provoking articles by a battery of serious, informed intelligent thinkers is that there is no actual comment section there.
Notice how carefully Glenn, who is
a major supporter of recent actions by Sen. Feingold reserves judgment about whether he would support Sen. Feingold for President until he gathers a lot more information about what such a Presidency would entail?
Contrast this to Kos who jumps on the Obama bandwagon because Obama is a "rising" Democrat "star" (ugh)even though Obama is a repugnant individual who would govern in the same tradition as does BushCo et al.
Serious thinking is needed to help effectuate the type of volcanic change that is needed as this country wrestles with the dilemma of whether a just, Constitutional Republic can survive and conduct its affairs morally in a climate of technological change, media manipulation and religious extremism.
Hey, like the bumper sticker says:
ReplyDelete"If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention."
paul rosenberg,
ReplyDeleteI give up. As long as you're going to ascribe positions and motives to me that I haven't posited, I see no need to continue this discussion with you.
And, I am not your 80 year old father. Your shit may fly with him, but it doesn't with me. Stop projecting.
I saw that article when I picked up yesterday's WaPo, and I just couldn't believe they'd stoop so low.
ReplyDeleteWhat I went through a few years ago with Bush, I guess I'm going through now with the WaPo, in terms of still being surprised by the next outrage they commit.
So Finkel had never dipped his toes into the blogsphere before, and he only looked in any depth at the output of one blogger to produce that article.
Reminds me of Doonesbury's fictitious Roland Burton Hedley writing a "state of the student" cover story for Time after only visiting Walden Commune.
I'm not worried about the angry label as much as I am a label of not being angry enough. Considering the actions of this pRESIDENT everyone should be angry except for the super rich, the transnational corporations, and people who are here illegally (who supposedly can't vote). Even the religious right should be angry if they are paying attention.
ReplyDeleteWhat if the 60% of the people in this country that disapprove of Bush were to show their anger by protesting in the streets ala the 60's?
I think we need more anger, not less. Rove and crowd are preaching to a minority of 37% that aren't going to change their minds regardless of what Bush does.
This was my letter Sunday to the Post:
ReplyDeleteSwift Boating should be a reviled tactic of politics not newspapers. Your smear of blogs on the left today is reprehensible. You did not talk about the actual content of Daily Kos or Eschaton but used instead excerpts from their comment section. This is no different than if I were to describe the tenor of the Washington Post by using quotes from your most extreme Letters to the Editor. Yes, there are extreme blogs on the left, but the ones you chose to smeared are not. However, an investigative article on the language and hateful content of the popular blogs on the right, however, would be prove challenging to print in a mainstream newspaper.
From shouting thomas at 8:23AM:
ReplyDelete"This praying for the return of the Soviet Union that is now the defining characteristic of the left is not very attractive."
I'm unaware of anyone here or on any other weblog or comment thread calling for such a thing. Mayhap you should actually *read* the comment threads completely and engaging both hemispheres of your brain before spouting such claptrap.
shouting thomas continues:
"Continue to delude yourselves. Keep losing. Ignore the reality that President Bush has to deal with an Iran equipped with nuclear weapons and announcing that it will destroy Israel."
The reality is President Bush is NOT dealing with Iran, which is NOT equipt with nuclear weapons nor is likely to be so in the near future, in any constructive manner. Yes, the current regime in Tehran is announcing it wants to destroy Israel, just as its predecessors have been doing for the last 30-odd years; last I looked, Israel is still around and strong as ever.
So, what precisely does this have to do with anything?
shouting thomas continues:
"It's laughable. Sane people throughout the country find the nutjob rhetoric about race, sex and class contemptible."
I agree; that's why nobody gives a serious hoot about what's being said at Powerline or Little Green Footballs. We're here to discuss serious problems, not indulge in idle fantasy. Feel free to join us any day soon.
Why pay for WaPo? You already pay for the government that uses it as an official propaganda outlet.
ReplyDeleteWhy pay twice?
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Ignore the reality that President Bush has to deal with an Iran equipped with nuclear weapons
ReplyDeleteSuch a reality, not being a reality, is not only easy to ignore, but it is necessary to ignore it.
Thanks for showing us how stupid you'd have to be to still be a conservative these days.
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Anything you say can and will be used against you by journalists who are your enemies.
ReplyDeleteMSOC was seen as a disposable person the trashing of whom would have no consequences for the career of Mr. Finkel.
Harold