By Anonymous Liberal
The title of Ron Suskind's much-publicized new book "The One Percent Doctrine" refers to a doctrine reportedly adopted by Dick Cheney following the 9/11 attacks. According to Suskind, Cheney was adamant that if there is even a one percent chance of a high-impact threat materializing, "we have to treat it as a certainty in terms of our response."
In and of itself, there's nothing particularly crazy about such a doctrine. Rationale actors are supposed to base their response to potential threats on an assessment of two factors: the gravity of the threat and the likelihood of it occurring. If the threat is sufficiently grave (say, a nuclear bomb detonating in a U.S. city), it makes sense to take that threat very seriously, even if there is only a 1% chance of it occurring.
The reviews of Suskind's book (I confess I have not yet read the book itself) focus on how Cheney's doctrine "effectively sideline[d] the traditional policymaking process of analysis and debate, making suspicion, not evidence, the new threshold for action."
This may well be true, and it may go a long way toward explaining how we came to be bogged down in a protracted conflict in a country that had nothing to do with the events of 9/11.
But it seems to me that the primary problem is not so much the doctrine itself, but the fact that it has been applied in an entirely arbitrary and haphazard way.
According to Suskind, Cheney's epiphany came after a briefing in which he was told that two Pakistani nuclear scientists had met with Osama Bin Laden. Cheney is then reported to have said: "If there's a one percent chance that Pakistani scientists are helping al Qaeda build or develop a nuclear weapon, we have to treat it as a certainty in terms of our response."
But do the Bush administration's policies really reflect that sort of response? It's been over four years since Cheney made this remark, and in that time, the Bush administration has done almost nothing to increase security at the most likely point of entry for a nuclear device or other WMD, our ports. The percentage of shipping containers that are inspected is still very small. And even less has been done to protect potential domestic targets, like chemical and nuclear plants. Could it be that the "one percent doctrine" gives way when it comes to safety measures that are unpopular with the business lobby?
The "one percent doctrine" was most clearly on display in our decision to pre-emptively invade Iraq, a country that we knew did not have nuclear weapons or any significant ties to Osama bin Laden. We chose to invade the country, at least in part, because of the small chance that Saddam might one day transfer a weapon of mass destruction (particularly a nuclear bomb) to a terrorist organization like al-Qaeda.
Three years later, bin Laden is still at large, we're still tied up in Iraq, and two other potential nuclear powers are emerging (North Korea and Iran).
The problem is, at the risk of stating the obvious, that it is impossible to treat all low-probability threats as if they are certain to occur. Resources are limited and threats must be prioritized. Taking steps to address one potential threat will necessarily affect the calculus with respect to others. By treating the 1% percent chance (if it was even that high) that Saddam Hussein would develop nuclear weapons and deliver them to al-Qaeda as if it were 100% certain to occur, we increased the odds with respect to other, equally troubling threat scenarios.
Our invasion and occupation of Iraq has stoked anti-American sentiment worldwide, has created a training ground for terrorists, has bogged down our military in a costly and increasingly intractable armed conflict, has severely undermined our national credibility, and has foreclosed any good options for dealing with other emerging threats (see North Korea, Iran). So while the odds of Saddam ever providing a bomb to al-Qaeda have now dropped to zero, the odds regarding other threat scenarios have undoubtedly gone up, in some cases dramatically.
In other words, you can't do threat assessment in a vacuum. When you focus myopically on one particular threat, the "one percent doctrine" is a recipe for reckless, consequences-be-damned foreign policy. And I think that's exactly what we've seen over the last four years.
The extent of this myopia is even more apparent when you expand the discussion to include non-terrorism related threats. To take an obvious example, for decades experts warned that a strong hurricane would breach the levies surrounding New Orleans, causing wide-spread damage and loss of life. That this would eventually happen was a virtual certainty (certainly far greater than 1%). And yet when it did happen, the Bush Administration was utterly unprepared to deal with it.
And where did the "one percent doctrine" go when it comes to the threat posed by global warming? With respect to that threat--like the threat to New Orleans--the Bush administration seems to have long ago adopted the "ninety-nine percent doctrine", i.e., if a threat has a 99% chance of materializing, we must base our policy around the assumption that it will NOT occur.
As I said, I haven't yet read Suskind's book, and he may well make some or all of these points in it. But it seems to me that the primary problem with the Bush administration is not that it overreacts to low-probability threats, but that it single-mindedly focuses on one particular threat scenario to the exclusion of all others.
Cheney doesn't even mean 1%. "1" was chosen for rhetorical effect. What he means is that if there is any chance of it happeneing, it must be treated as if its certain to happen. That is a recipe for disastrous irrational behavior. See the the invasion of Iraq.
ReplyDeleteGood post by the way. The Global warming example perfectly illustrates the selective sight of this administration.
ReplyDeleteI'd like to have heard them say "If there were even a 1% chance New Orleans would be flooded, . . ."
ReplyDeleteAgreeing with Hume's Ghost, treating all events as virtual certainties makes it impossible to act rationally. By this doctrine, I should get drunk, jump in my car, and buy as many lottery tickets as I can afford, since there is a (small chance) virtual certainty that I will make it out alive and wealthy.
ReplyDelete"In and of itself, there's nothing particularly crazy about such a doctrine. Rationale actors are supposed to base their response to potential threats on an assessment of two factors: the gravity of the threat and the likelihood of it occurring. If the threat is sufficiently grave (say, a nuclear bomb detonating in a U.S. city), it makes sense to take that threat very seriously, even if there is only a 1% chance of it occurring."
ReplyDeleteBut that's not what has occurred with this administration. There has been no rational assessment of threats, either in terms of gravity or likelihood. In fact, it treats all potential grave threats as equally likely as the bar has been dramatically lowered.
You're quite right that the context is missing in making a proper rational calculation. What has emerged is an administration focused entirely on some kind of response - any response, regardless of whether it has been effective or not.
But I somehow get the sneaking suspicion that this administration cares more about appearing to respond to a threat insterad of actually doing so in a meaningful manner. To do so would require weighing grave threats and their likelihood much more rationally and would require the much more difficult and arduous task of crafting a policy based on sound risk management procedures.
You really should read the book - while the 1% doctrine has provided some victories for the US, it can't really be said to be based on the soundness of the policy itself. Suskind outlines in broad strokes that it may be moreso of dumb luck. We are still no nearer in determining just what the real threats are (or the likelihood of such threats) than we were before 9-11.
Risk equals probability times impact.
ReplyDeleteJonathan Schell is famous (at least among debaters) for his argument that the risk of nuclear war (as he defines it) is infinite, and so we should treat any marginal increase in the chance of nuclear confrontation as a certainty. If you accept the risk equation and that nuclear war is an infinite cost, it follows pretty nicely. That doesn't necessarily mean it makes policy sense, though. Regardless, if I'm interpreting Jensen's inequality correctly, the simple equation I mentioned may not provide the whole answer. There's a huge difference between a 50% chance of losing one city and a 25% chance of losing two cities, for example.
By the way, by the time many of you read this, Hamdan v. Rumsfeld will have been decided and we'll know whether there is a single constraint on what Bush can do with detainees (indefinite detention, military tribunals, torture, etc.). SCOTUSblog seems to think the decision won't be as bad as it could be, although I couldn't follow their reasoning.
Instead of bombing the bejeebers out of any country that the Republicans decide is any kind of threat, how about getting busy and completing that project that will destroy any nukes headed in our direction...a program that has been in progress for a long time and for which we've already paid the big bucks, and not is said to be only marginally operational.
ReplyDeleteAdditionally, re: the ports problem, CNN reported last week that the ports that were owned by Dubai a couple of months ago, are still owned by Dubai. No sale has taken place.
Major, RTFA.
ReplyDelete“sneaking suspicion that this administration cares more about appearing to respond to a threat instead of actually doing so in a meaningful manner.”
ReplyDeleteAnyone with a bit of foresight and caution will employ some form of devils advocate to get a jump on Murphy's Law. What were the fallback positions again? In politics image often beats substance, but at this level of importance the decisions really do appear so haphazard, compared to the politics, that one can’t help but sense something’s really seriously wrong. I mean with the problem solving, not all the other stuff.
Good post, AL.
ReplyDelete"In and of itself, there's nothing particularly crazy about such a doctrine."
I thoroughly disagree. The doctrine, such as it is, is an utter rejection of evidence and analysis-based foreign policy. The idea is once there's a hint of a threat, everything else goes out the window and you respond to that threat with maximum force, as it were. So as outlined by Suskind, the "doctrine" is the basis of most of the most egregious examples of extra-constitutional behaviour on the part of the Administration. So if there's the slightest chance that Al Quaeda has a biological weapon, we need to build a prison camp in Cuba and torture whomever we feel like.
In other words, the doctrine in itself is indeed insane.
(note: I read a couple of chapters of the book in the Union Square B&L, so take myinterpretation with a new york grain of salt).
"Would you rather have a president who doesn't care if somebody sets off a nuclear bomb in a major american city?"
ReplyDeleteYes, most presidents wouldn't care about that at all! After all, they're only voters. Probably evens out in the end.
The point is what they do about that and how hard they think about the ways that might happen and the *reasons* it happens.
Anybody who has participated in high school debate in the past decade is probably intimately familiar with the one percent doctrine. It was forumalted by nuclear abolitionist Jonathan Schell (who incidentally writes for the Nation) in the early 80s. According to Schell, any possibility of nuclear annihilation must be treated as a certainty, no matter how remote. Schell's point was that there is always a posibility of complete extinction of all life on the planet from nuclear war, so we must abolish all nuclear weapons. How ironic that his administration wants to build more nuclear wepons, which will spur more nuclear weapons around the world, increasing the possiblity of nuclear war or diversion to terrorists. There will always be a one percent chance of nuclear annihilation (from states or terrorists) as long as we maintain such a vast arsenal. If Cheney was serious about this doctrine, he would be the world's most powerful nuclear abolitionist.
ReplyDeletethe major,
ReplyDeleteGo get the colonel.
You've been relieved of duty.
"After all, they're only voters. Probably evens out in the end."
ReplyDeleteWell I guess we really know now what liberals think of Americans.
Please, please quote me on that.
the major knows he is making stuff up. It really makes you wonder who he is trying to fool. Lurkers? We all know he is purposely lying, yet he does it anyway. It's madness.
ReplyDeleteHe may have been brainwashed about the "liberal" thing, but something so incoherent coming from the mind of an adult is still bizarre.
So in this 1% scenario does the government get overthrown? What would an insurance actuarial have to say about the utility of this probability? Maybe 1% refers to the VP's eventual approval ratings. BTW, GG I have read your book 3 times and the only thing I wish you would deliver next, even if it's speculation, I know that isn't your gig, but what was the Administrations intent? Anyway I gave one copy to a friend who works at the NSA and now it's with a current military soldier. Feed back later if I can from them. Thanks again for all your observations and insights and of course your time.
ReplyDeleteHey, Major.
ReplyDeleteI'd like to share with you a quote from the wisest columnist I ever read, Sydney J. Harris:
"The first one to start throwing labels around, such as 'liberal' or 'right-wing' is the one who has lost the argument on its merits and has now fallen back on name-calling."
It's been almost 40 years since I read that, so perhaps not every word is accurate, but the gist is still true. Using words like "liberal" is a short-cut past the thought process and avoids engaging the issues and defending a position.
You said you'd prefer a president who cared about a nuclear weapon going off in a large city. I agree. I live less than 60 miles from the headquarters of two of the largest banks in America, prime nuclear targets for terrorists. Therefore, I would prefer a president who gave a second thought to port security rather than wars of choice to fatten his corporate buddies' wallets.
Two issues strongly complicate the "1%" doctrine:
ReplyDelete1. Low probabilities are notoriously difficult for humans to accurately estimate. To most people, 1% and 1 in a million are pretty much the same. But from a rational policy perspective, a 1 in a million chance of a nuclear terrorist strike is completely different from a 1% chance. Under this doctrine, any physically possible scenario magically becomes 1% and must be dealt with. (And I agree with one argument in the post: some 1% problems are big enough to rationally need dealing with.)
2. In this scheme, there's no accounting for the (usually) 10% chance that the solution causes a disaster. In a rational policy-making regime, these would be balanced against each other. However, in this Administration, treating it as 100% discounts any possible downsides of addressing it.
As for Schell's argument: under no possible scenario can al Qaeda cause the "infinite-cost" nuclear annihilation, so any reference to his argument is simply deceitful. al Qaeda might cause (I'd personally put it at a 10% long-term risk, but it's a very subjective measure) a single nuclear strike on a single city. Responsible policy-making requires this to be treated completely differently from total annihilation.
(Preemptive disclaimer for the major: looking for these weapons is what I do all day, deploying my expertise in defense of our country--so don't you dare even start with how liberals must not care about nuclear attacks on American cities.)
I think we've already agreed the "one-percent doctrine" is bunk (the major notwithstanding).
ReplyDeleteThe question therefore becomes (a) what should replace it, and (b) how seriously would policy mechanisms have to be 're-tooled' to accomplish it?
Props to A.L. for kick-starting the discussion. Cheers.
I have one minor quibble with your post.
ReplyDeleteAnonLiberal:
Rationale actors are supposed to base their response to potential threats on an assessment of two factors: the gravity of the threat and the likelihood of it occurring.
Actually there is a third factor: your vulnerability to the threat. Everything else being equal, if you are invulnerable to the threat, then the risk is considered to be nil. If, OTOH, your defenses are down, then the risk could be very high.
I'm sorry, but this "doctrine" isn't one. The list of high-impact events that threaten us at this level of probability would boggle any rational mind. Whether it is a rational organ or not, Cheney's brain would explode if he were ever to achieve fascist nirvana: Total information awareness. His doctrine wouldn't help him there, either.
ReplyDeleteI find it credible that Cheney is greedy for wealth and power. I find it incredible that his actions can be explained by a "one-percent doctrine." It's not a guide for planning; it's an excuse for tunnel vision, for all the failures to exercise prudence and judgment.
Let's take an event that threatened us at a considerably higher probability: the attack on 9/11. Cheney and Bush were briefed and warned. Cheney (and Bush?) ignored the warnings and ensured that the nation's defenses would remain passive. (What were our air force and our air traffic controllers doing while the attacks were under way? What were Cheney and Bush doing? Where was Ashcroft?)
The response since 9/11 has been a joke: Homeland Security for whom?
Maybe the "one percent" is a subjective measure. At what fraction of 1 percent does Cheney place global warming?
"The One Percent Doctrine" is a nice title and a nice thesis, but it takes the place of a real explanation.
shooter: I don't know about you, but if I were responsible for 300 million souls and faced with an absolute animosity, I'd pull out the stops as well.
ReplyDeleteWhat does "absolute animosity" mean here? I don't think these people are completely irrational--in the way that animals or demi-gods. They act for specific, strategic reasons and goals. I imagine that they are amenable to discussion, should the conditions arise in which they can feel that their voice is heard.
The incomprehensibility of human beings killing themselves, to kill others, in the commision of a scheme to kill even more drove policy.
This, of course, is ridiculously self-righteous. I can imagine that Americans would do the same thing were their country invaded. Tim McVeigh was a former American soldier--he used the means at his disposal and carried out a barbaric act. Americans carry out such barbarities more often than it is, perhaps, healthy to imagine.
Thinking of ourselves as somehow morally superior--when put in similar positions as others--is part of the problem that we face. Indeed, in some circumstances, it would be morally reprehensible NOT to sacrifice oneself. How far do you think "give me liberty or give me death" goes anyway? Logically, that means that faced with certain slavery I'd be willing to kill or be killed--the means, of course, are determined by the tools at my disposal.
shooter: Terrorists are becoming fewer rather than greater according to letters bemoaning the lack of foreign fighters, and we are now looking at amnesty for insurgents.
ReplyDeleteIn a survey of terrorism experts, eight out of ten said that the US is losing the so-called war on terrorism. One of the main reasons is that the Iraq "War" is a cause celebre for many wanna-be young romantics in love with risk, death, and salvation:
One participant in the survey, a former CIA official who described himself as a conservative Republican, said the war in Iraq has provided global terrorist groups with a recruiting bonanza, a valuable training ground and a strategic beach head at the crossroads of the oil-rich Persian Gulf and Turkey, the traditional land bridge linking the Middle East to Europe.
"The war in Iraq broke our back in the war on terror," said the former official, Michael Scheuer, the author of "Imperial Hubris," a popular book highly critical of the Bush administration's anti-terrorism efforts. "It has made everything more difficult and the threat more existential."
From shooter242 at 9:25am:
ReplyDelete"Exactly. I don't know about you, but if I were responsible for 300 million souls and faced with an absolute animosity, I'd pull out the stops as well."
And you were doing so well to this point. Guess an actual epiphany was too much to hope for.
Your last paragraph manages to encapsulated the problem with the Administration's current (and likely only psychologically permissable) stance and doctrine, complete with all its short-sighted, reactionary arrogance that thinks military action is a perfect cure-all for actual *policy* and rational examination of the dangers we face.
I hate to break it to you, but the country has faced "anti-Americanism" from various corners of the world since 1783, and yes, sometimes it has led to actual armed conflict. What we face now is little different, albeit involving a different calculus.
You correctly point out this is war of pure ideology, in some respects not unlike the Cold War (although this is an imperfect metaphor) so it is not entirely without prescedent. As such, it needs to be fought in that fashion, rather than simply with poorly-planned and ill-informed military action as the Administration has pursued to date.
Invading Iraq in that case, whatever the Administration's actual intentions, has succeeded only in serving Bin Laden's argument against us rather than deflating or countering it. Behaving as if the rest of the world thinks exactly as we do and holds the same values system is about as foolish as claiming a mere three elections in as many years establishes a stable and prosperous democracy where none had previously existed; like it or not, other cultures and societies hold different values from our own, and are unlikely to respond favorably when we go forcing them to adopt them.
Back to the one-percent doctrine. Its bunk, it doesn't work, and its led to one disaster (both foreign and domestic) after another with this Administration. Time to find something that actually works and try to save ourselves any more damage.
As much as I hate to say it, Shooter is making an important point. When dealing with catastrophic events, such as a nuclear explosion in Downtown Manhattan, then the usual risk calculations break down. It's not that a one percent chance becomes certain, but that the resulting consequences of something occuring mean that almost any chance of it happening is too high. That is what I understand to be Cheney's reasoning.
ReplyDeleteWhat's being missed, though, is that the catastrophic nature of something is not intrinsic to the event. It is socially determined. No rational person would want to see a nuclear explosion going off in any city; but then no rational person would want to live in a society as depicted by Orwell in his 1984 either. The question of rationality is a bit misleading, because society determines what is rational or not in these cases. There's no mathematical formula which can be applied here.
Global warming is a great example. We know that the chances are we're headed for an environmental catastophe, but converting to other cleaner forms of energy is not yet "rational" because it is not yet "economical". At what point exactly it will become "irrational" to continue the way we are is anyone's guess.
From shooter242 at 10:19am:
ReplyDelete"So far we've been either lucky or good. Nobody can point a finger at which yet, but I'm glad that the 1% doctrine was in place. It was the only rational thing to do."
You really can't help yourself here, can you?
We've neither been lucky, nor good. The Iraqi expedition has destroyed that country's infrastructure and its remained destroyed. Three elections do not a stable democracy make, and there's little sign the insurgency is actually winding down.
The one-percent doctrine only works and is only ration if you have unlimited resources to apply to EVERY SINGLE DANGER, be it man-made or natural in origin.
You can quibble all you wish over the whys and wherefores of the damage wrought by Katrina, but the fact remains Federal response was abysmal to nonexistent. If its primary responsibility is to secure the safety of all Americans, it clearly failed here.
You can tout all the 'accomplishments' we've had in Iraq, and the fact remains the country is in shambles both physically and socially, and will likely remain so for the foreseeable future, all thanks to the US invasion.
Bin Laden remains free and at liberty to continue to mock and plan against us. His network is likely larger than ever, and the greatest danger isn't another 9/11, but of bombings like Madrid, London and Bali: smaller, locally-conceived and executed attacks that still cause significant damage.
In some respects, calling our stance a 'one-percent doctrine' is correct, as it has *negative* one-percent chance of actually accomplishing anything.
But rational? Only to the Mad Hatter and the March Hare.
Hume's Ghost:
ReplyDeleteCheney doesn't even mean 1%. "1" was chosen for rhetorical effect. What he means is that if there is any chance of it happeneing, it must be treated as if its certain to happen. That is a recipe for disastrous irrational behavior. See the the invasion of Iraq.
It's all too typical of modern irrational and/or phobic behaviour.
Most people are not very good estimators if risk, nor do they treat the expected costs of various choices rationally. For instance, many people fear flying but not driving their own car even though the former is far safer (in part because people have the silly idea they're "in control" at least when they're driving).
There's an inordinate fear of particularly gruesome deaths even if the result is the pretty much the same.
People that are terrified of a one-in-a-million chance of a terrorist attack per year (just choosing numbers for rhetorica purposes) think nothing of the one in a thousand chance of serious injury or death in having a few drinks on the way home.
Insurance buying even isn't particularly rational behaviour from a strictly cost/benefit analysis -- the insurance companies make money because they know and "set" the odds. We buy insurance because of externalities and our own judgements of the "costs" of finanical ruin (or alternatively in the case of some uninsured motorists, the "unmanageable" price of the premium).
People gamble for the Megabucks jackputs because to them, this is their only "chance" of ever seeing $10M, even if the chance of their winning this on a $1 bet is one in 20 million and the gummint is walking away with 50 cents on every dollar they spend. If they walked into a Las Vegas casino and the odds on the roulette wheel or the craps table were that bad, they'd quickly lose a load and leave in disgust, but they do it for the Megabucks because for some, "a dream is indeed a plan".
Yes, indeed, the maladministration was playing on the irrationality of the people in the face of certain threats, and stoking the fears, instead of trying to address them. And it continues with Cheney's absurd post hoc "justifications" when the 'odds' have in fact been more severey fixed against his political choices.
Cheers,
anonymous liberal:
ReplyDeleteAccording to Suskind, Cheney's epiphany came after a briefing in which he was told that two Pakistani nuclear scientists had met with Osama Bin Laden. Cheney is then reported to have said: "If there's a one percent chance that Pakistani scientists are helping al Qaeda build or develop a nuclear weapon, we have to treat it as a certainty in terms of our response."
Two obvious problems with that from a rational cost/risk analysis POV:
There's a difference between taking a nominal and unknown 1% chance as a certainty of at least a 1% chance, and taking the 1% chance as a 100% chance "because the costs of a Type II error are so high". Instead, the relative cost and risk should be multiplied to get the expected cost.
The additional problem is that anywhere there is uncertainty to the actual risk needs to be combined with the relative uncertainty for anything else that is also necessary for the risk to become actual; here, for instance, they'd need to take the "1% risk" that there was such talks with the (say) 15% risk the talks were about nuclear weapons design along with the 5% chance they might be ble to get enough SNM undetected, etc. down the line. By the time they're done, they may well have a one-in-a-million or less chance that the suspect activity will amount to anything, and to treat each individual component risk separately flies in the face of rational CBA.
Cheers,
applying the 1 percent doctrine to global warming isn't gonna make BILLIONS AND BILLIONS of dollars for halliburton and the military-industrial complex (of which oil is a major component).
ReplyDeleteThe goals of the neocons are easy to see - control oil and bankrupt the federal government by allowing certain "elites" to steal the federal treasury.
This will be used to "privatize" the remaining government assets (meaning sell them for pennies on a dollar to the same elites).
The chaos and fear this creates will be used to further enable the war machine to grow while taking away our rights.
After all, can't win honest elections with this agenda - but then that's why they stole 2000, 2004, and key races in 2002,
Social Security is as good as gone after they steal key races in 2006 - the chimperor and his 30 percent approval rating will proclaim they have a mandate to do so.
eponymous:
ReplyDeleteBut I somehow get the sneaking suspicion that this administration cares more about appearing to respond to a threat insterad of actually doing so in a meaningful manner....
Now, now, now ... stop that! You're talking about political risks. Let's not confuse the issues, 'kay?
Cheers,
Use their own logic against them in this assessment. The old source mentality.
ReplyDeleteWhy haven't we been scooping up all the nuclear materials that are largely unaccounted for in the former Soviet republics?
If you wanted to acquire such materials why bother with manufacturing from yellow cake when there is lots of fissionable material lying around doing nothing in the other recent power vacuum in Asia. Organized crime is a way of life in Russia now and surely a price can be named.
Non sequitur?
AL,
ReplyDeleteThe book (One Percent Doctrine) doesn't really argue that the principle reason for invading Iraq was the "one percent doctrine": (p. 123)
"The primary impetus for invading Iraq, according to those attending NSC briefings on the Gulf in this period, was to make an example of Hussein, to create a demonstration model to guide the behavior of anyone with the temerity to acquire destructive weapons or, in any way, flout the authority of the United States.
"In Oval Office meetings, the President would often call Iraq a "game changer." More specifically, the theory was the United States- with a forceful action against Hussein- would change the rules of geopolitical analysis and action for countless other countries."
disenchanted dave:
ReplyDeleteThere's a huge difference between a 50% chance of losing one city and a 25% chance of losing two cities, for example.
Reminds me immediately of a real discussion I was in just a couple weeks ago. The questions was of "risk" of an 2 * <X> percent chance of a 50% outage versus an <X> percent chance of a 100% outage. Different people may well have different ideas of the "costs" here, us, the service provider, or the customers, although from a birds-eye view, the overall "risk" is the same. In this particular case, the "risk" to us is the contractual costs, and what an "outage" is defined as (although I'd argue that we ought to consider as welll what the implications are to the service provider anbd the customer).
In other news, I hear the mission safety officer is recommending that the shuttle not fly, but the decision has been made to "accept the risks" and go ahead. A lot of noise was made a while ago about the risks of shuttle launch being underestimated. In fact, IIRC, the estimated risks were something like around a 1% chance of mission "failure". The loss of 2 shuttles is far from unexpected behaviour after over a hundred (IIRC) flights, and while spectacularly horrible, we really should have steeled ourselves to expect it.
Cheers,
does anyone care to show the math "proof" for how cheney's 1 percent was calculated?
ReplyDeletecranky daze:
ReplyDeleteInstead of bombing the bejeebers out of any country that the Republicans decide is any kind of threat, how about getting busy and completing that project that will destroy any nukes headed in our direction...a program that has been in progress for a long time and for which we've already paid the big bucks, and not is said to be only marginally operational.
Ummm, in part because the expected mode of transportation of a Terra-ist nuke is not on top of a eminently detectable ICBM.
But aside from that, paying more big bucks because we've already spent them is a form of the "gambler's fallacy" (or in simpler terms, "throwing good money after bad").
Cheers,
Since Shooter242 brought up the "911 changed everything" crap...
ReplyDeleteOnly the Bush administration had the motives, means, and opportunity to create the events that enabled a war of conquest and personal profits in Iraq. The administration acted to bring their preconceived war in Iraq to fruitarian.
Only the U.S Government could have orchestrated the events that started the war drums and fed the mighty Wurlitzer that was used to build support for the Iraq war.
The Department of Defense stood down
The WTC was demolished with a controlled demolition
The pentagon was “attacked” with a hoax about a passenger airliner
Another hoax was used to create a distraction in PA, flight 93 and build the myth of “Let’s Roll”
Pre-9/11 intelligence failures-by-design were used to create “patsies” with excuses for the events
The power of a grand jury or even the "discovery" process in a civil suit would result in a meaningful investigation. It might convince some to talk and the ability to grant some people immunity might result in "flipping" some conspirators.
The actions of the defendants tell you they are guilty. For example, it would be a serious violation of rules and regulations to let a president read an upside-down goat book while the nation was experiencing the worst attack on U.S. soil in history.
The “official story” would be laughable on its face if it wasn’t so tragic and if it wasn’t used to commit even greater war crimes and crimes against humanity. There is no way the administration’s version of events could withstand cross-examination by competent counsel.
OT News:
ReplyDeleteJustices: Bush went too far at Guantanamo
Wow. Shooter242 admits that Commander Codpiece FUBARed it:
ReplyDeleteOne could say that invading Afghanistan was the best solution but even that was inconclusive and the Taliban seem to be recovering.
Cheers,
If Cheney had a sense of humor, he'd be laughing.
ReplyDeleteWe are actually attampting to understand a doctrine that never existed except as a throwaway line.
If the Constitution can't constrain Dick Cheney's appetites and phobias, what effect is a phony doctrine - even one of his own invention - going to have?
Watch the money. Watch the blood. They're yours, and he's wasting what he can't steal.
shooter242 lapses into delusion (or is it outright hallucination?):
ReplyDeleteAs for North Korea, insisting on 6 party talks was a masterstroke of diplomacy...
No comment needed.
Cheers,
shooter242:
ReplyDeleteNo. It was the responsibility of the Army Corps of Engineers, the city, the state, and finally the levee commisions (each responsible for their own levee) that was responsible for the flooding. It was the Governor that blocked aid to the people at the superdome, and it was the mayor that deserted his people. FEMA isn't the greatest agency around, but as a multiple hurricane vet, I'll go to the mat on this one.
And it was the responsibility of FEMA to have dinners on the gummint's (and taxpayers') dime and nothing else. WTF is FEMA's job???
"Brownie, you're doign a hck of a job!"
OBTW, who's "CinC" of the Army Core of Engineers?
Cheers,
Andrew Montin:
ReplyDeleteAs much as I hate to say it, Shooter is making an important point. When dealing with catastrophic events, such as a nuclear explosion in Downtown Manhattan, then the usual risk calculations break down.
Why? And how should they "break down"?
Cheers,
Any discussion about percentages or numbers like one in a million is mooted by a simple fact. The pResident is utterly innumerate, and probably failed to achieve a passing grade in 'rithmetic or mathermatticals since grade school. If he were not the scion of wealth and power he could not hold down a McJob that required him to make change from a five dollar bill.
ReplyDeleteThere is no such "doctrine". It's a post facto justification for a decision Cheney and the other neocons made long ago. Saddam was never a real threat and they knew it. In fact, that's the reason they wanted to use him as an example -- he would be easy to overthrow.
ReplyDeleteCheney et al just wanted to throw their muscle around. "What good is it to have all this military might and not use it?" -- That's their real doctrine.
A good post and interesting comments. However, it seems that one must invariably be subjected to asinine comments, like "the major" that appear only interested in making personal attacks and seeing their point in print. If you can't add something of substance, just read and stay quiet! Again, a good post.
ReplyDeleteShooter blathered (at 11:57 AM),
ReplyDelete"While you may be focused on physics, this is a problem in psychology..."
The idea that some people, even a majority, believe something is not a demonstration of truth. When O.J. Simpson was on trial, a majority of African-Americans believed he was innocent. However many of the same people in 'man on the street' interviews used the phrase 'until proven guilty beyond a shadow of a doubt. It is extremely dangerous to credit the opinion of anyone who can be demonstrated to misunderstand the parameters of the discussion.
By the same token, most people on this blog are justified in dismissing anything YOU have to say.
Shooter242 said...
ReplyDeleteLet me counter with the observation that for most people, the odds of 19 people hijacking four planes and succeeding in killing 3000 people over two cities along with themselves was exactly zero.
The only people I heard say "no one could have imagined" were those in the Administration. Although you can't prove your point about what most people might have calculated the odds to be, had they been polled, it is irrelevant. The idea of using commercial aircraft as suicide bombs had certainly been considered long before 9/11. Nevertheless, I think most people in this country were well aware of the long history of both aircraft hijackings and suicide attacks by extremist. Connecting those TWO dots really doesn't take that much imagination.
Dr. Scientist said...
ReplyDeleteAgreeing with Hume's Ghost, treating all events as virtual certainties makes it impossible to act rationally. By this doctrine, I should get drunk, jump in my car, and buy as many lottery tickets as I can afford, since there is a (small chance) virtual certainty that I will make it out alive and wealthy.
Don't forget, Dr, that there is also a negative side to the equation: risks as well as rewards. By this logic, you are VIRTUALLY CERTAIN to die tomorrrow, if not from a stray meteorite, then surely from a cat scratch or a bolt of lightning.
So you should definitely go grab that 12-pack of River Horse and head to the 7-11.
Funny how both logics converge to result in very highly short-term thinking.
The Administration knew there was 0% threat from Iraq. They did nothing that would have secured any WMD had they existed. As I recall, the largest cache of munitions that was found was inadequately guarded and hauled of by the locals -- not so with the oil fields.
ReplyDeleteCurious, when reading the "1%-threshold" to "justify" illegal action.
ReplyDeleteWe have 100% proof of illegal White House conduct, yet that same "trigger" doesn't appear to be movable.
The US uses excuses to abuse, but refuses to face reality for accountability. That arrogance is what inspires open combat against American civilians.
Shooter said:
ReplyDeleteAnti-American sentiment always has and always will be negative in varying degrees.
Shooter, you're almost rational today. Have you had your coffee yet?
Seriously, though, how do you base extraordinary measures on a perceived 1% threat based on a single "fact" that has a 99% probably of being false, if not actually manufactured by people who work for you? My God, Shooter, what if every lie someone told you was 1% likely to be true?
I can tell you how I would work that to my advantage: "Dear Mr Shooter. I might have put a bomb in your luggage that you might not be able to detect and might go off. If you send me $1 million I might be able to stop it." You'd be jumping to every whistle. You'd be a puppet. Just like GWB.
The thing about Bush is that he actually prefers to go after the hypothetical, dangerous 1% threats rather than the proven one. There's something about threats only limited by your imagination that make them more fun/politically useful than those that are known. When Al Qaeda struck the towers, many in the administration seriously pushed for ignoring Al Qaeda and going after the hypothetical threat posed by Saddam. But it's not just in these areas. Consider the scaremongering over Social Security. It's currently in the black and is projected to be for at least 40 years, depending on your economic assumptions. The effect of the baby boom retirement will be that it will go from being 4% of GDP to 6% of GDP, likely putting it in the red. Of course, it's nowhere near the issue Medicare will be, but more to the point we're currently running budget deficits around 5% of our GDP. Why is it that the budget deficit we're currently running can be ignored but the (smaller) deficits the social security program might some day be running must be dealt with now?
ReplyDeletelawstsoul: I think most people in this country were well aware of the long history of both aircraft hijackings and suicide attacks by extremist. Connecting those TWO dots really doesn't take that much imagination.
ReplyDeleteThink Die Hard II. The fact that Hollywood could come up with the scenario many years before the event shows that it was not unimaginable. The rhetoric by the Bush admin is just a way to hide from their responsibility--just as they do in all things moral.
eric: There's something about threats only limited by your imagination that make them more fun/politically useful than those that are known.
ReplyDeleteIt's called playing on people's inherent despair and anxiety. The possible is onbviously scarier than the reality. Whatever reason you wish to ascribe to this psychology of despair, it exists and is easily manipulable by the communication professionals whose entire immoral existence rests in manufacturing illusions.
Think Die Hard II.
ReplyDeleteDidn't see it. Securing access to cockpits would have prevented 9/11, at least as it unfolded that day. I read somewhere that hardening the doors had been proposed and rejected as too costly. I have also read that the Israeli did that years ago, along with a policy that pilots disable/crash the plane before giving up control to a hijacker. In any event, I doubt that there is now an airline crew or passenger that would "imagine" there is any chance of surviving a hijacking other than attacking the hijackers.
AltHippo said...
ReplyDelete"In Oval Office meetings, the President would often call Iraq a "game changer." More specifically, the theory was the United States- with a forceful action against Hussein- would change the rules of geopolitical analysis and action for countless other countries."
Well, he certainly succceeded. The playing field is a bit more level now.
dr. scientist is right - this is not a decision matrix. A decision matrix would say "a 1% chance of an attack causing $1M in damage is worth speding up to $10,000 to prevent". Dick Cheney is saying it's worth spending up to $1M (before Haliburton's numerous cost overruns).
ReplyDeleteAnother view of the 99% Doctrine.
ReplyDeleteThreats to America (Bush response):
>Increasing competition with China over oil (more drillin)
>Latin America’s going lefty (ignore the booin at the summit)
>Middle class decline (Yall On Yer Own)
>Credit spendthrift consumerism (show how it’s done)
>Size of government (make it bigger ‘n dumber)
>Global warming (can’t prove nothin)
>Health care (nothin)
>Social security (some fancy road shows, then nothin)
>Unsecured borders (nothin)
>GOP anger at Unsecured borders (send some boys down, then nothin)
>Unsecured ports (sell em to pals, maybe better not, shhhh, then nothin)
>Class warfare (tax cuts for the real base so they can go pump up housing costs, then nothin)
>family values (a few weak gestures, some embarrassing screwups, then nothin)
>Terrorism (YEE HAW, piss off just about everyone but the terrorists themselves, blame someone, some coin in a few pockets, net gain nothin)
>Just about everything else (just about nothin)
For 99%: nothin.
Arne,
ReplyDeleteRisk management involves trade-offs, except when you believe that even a small chance of something happening is too high because of its catastrophic consequences. In that case, it's about preventing the event from happening regardless of the cost. This is not a mathematical argument, as some seem to believe; it's about making value judgments.
Andrew Montin:
ReplyDeleteRisk management involves trade-offs, except when you believe that even a small chance of something happening is too high because of its catastrophic consequences. In that case, it's about preventing the event from happening regardless of the cost. This is not a mathematical argument, as some seem to believe; it's about making value judgments.
Huh????
Then the "cost" (that is, the "catastrophic consequneces") is very high. High enough, and you'll think any "cost" worth the price, even if that is not a rationa decision. If you think only of the "catastrophic consequnces", and ignore both the small risk and any high (and probable) costs of prevention, you'll do the irrational.
Which, I might say, is what people have been pointing out this whoel thread.
Another way to say it is that people tend to think that the "cost" of their own death is infinite. Because "payoff" is formaly (and even colloquially) "probabliity times expected vaue", infinity times even the most infinitesimal chance of something happening is 'decisive'. That is, an excuse to crap one's pants in a silly display of self-centredness ... a sentiment that is even more surprising amongst those that seem (or claim) to be of the belief that their own death, due to their virtue or faith, will guarantee an aeternity in heaven....
Cheers,
Anonymous Liberal -
ReplyDeleteOVERVIEW: You have contorted fact and ideology through the lens of hindsight. The application to a convenient slogan (1% doctrine) is smokescreen for partisan jabs.
DISCLAIMERS:
*this argument doesn't question the accuracy of some of the statements (response to Katrina was slow.
*this argument doesn't brand your logic as a result of liberalism or any other political ideology.
*the CAPS are because I don't understand formatting.
ARGUMENT:
There are three meta-issues with your post:
FIRST, federal and state government failure does not equate with executive culpability. The failure of the DOHS or the USCG to protect the ports, or the failure of city managers to protect New Orleans are NOT federal failures.
SECOND, the argument that "resources are finite" does not respond to issues you cite. You BUDGET finite monetary resources for wars like Iraq. You cannot BUDGET resources for attacks like those of September 11, 2001, nor can you budget for unpredictable natural disasters.
FINALLY, you argue that experts predicted the levees would burst. They have certainly proved to be accurate.
There are also experts, though, who have warned of a population bomb, impending asteroids, Y2K, and other widescale catastrophe.
The goal of government is to seperate fact from fantasy. Sometimes, they are in err. Othertimes, they are apathetic.
CONCLUSION: To attribute human calamity to one group(the Bush administration)and continue to cite their failure with a slogan for one doctine (the 1% doctrine) is to reduce politics to pointing wars.
History can be leverage for one viewpoint, but the failures of the Bush administration in its duty to protect the American people from human and natural calamity is NOT due, even by 1%, to "Cheney's doctrine."
Another way to understand the doctrine is as a move in a competitive game. If your competitors believe that you will react with prejudice to perceived threats, then they are more likely to tread much more carefully. If you can afford to actually carry out a few demonstration bullyings, all the better. If successful, the move may well pay off with substantial reduction of threats as competitors scramble not to appear even remotely threatening.
ReplyDeleteAs mentioned numerous times above, the administration does not really use the 1% rule in non-competitive contexts like hurricanes and global warming. That would just be irrational to do. It appears only in the context of security, a largely competitive game where the doctrine might well make sense.
The abc math prof guy has a memorable quip about the 1% rule: does it really make sense to shoot a guy at a bar because he looks at you funny? That is just nuts. Unless there are no police to come haul you off and you get an instant reputation of shooting guys who even look at you funny. Then chances are good that everyone smiles warmly in your direction.
And do any of you really believe that Dick Cheney doesn't know how to be an effective bully?
All the companies I work for have large "Reserves for Contingencies."
ReplyDeleteWhen asked what they are for, we respond, "If we knew what the contingency was, we could tell you."
Applies to risk analysis, funding, and scenarios.