Saturday, July 29, 2006

Remember Iraq?

(updated below)

One of the most bizarre and disturbing media phenomena in some time is the very sudden, and virtually complete, disappearance of the war in Iraq from the media radar. That country is literally falling apart, engulfed by what even war proponents are acknowledging increasingly appears to be an inevitable civil war and growing anarchy. And yet for the last week, Iraq was barely discussed, save for a completely inconsequential gossipy sideshow about whether the Democrats did something which the Republicans would never, ever do -- namely, exploit a national security matter (Prime Minister Maliki's condemnation of Israel) for political gain.

For the media, new wars are always more exciting than old wars, but the Israel-Lebanon war is not (yet) "our war," despite the zealous dreams of American warmongers. What is very much our war is the true disaster taking place in Iraq. What is going on there is not just devastating for Iraqis -- although it is very much that -- but for American national security as well. And yet the proponents of this war seem to be eager to simply forget the whole thing and just move on to their next little project, blithely accepting the fact that Iraq is going to be engulfed by civil war and anarchy and that there is not much we can do about it.

But there is no greater danger to American national security than the complete mess which war proponents have made of Iraq, and to know that, one can just listen to what they themselves have been saying for the last several years. Let's use war proponent Joe Lieberman as an example.

Here is what Sen. Lieberman said in an October 7, 2002 speech when explaining why he was one of four sponsors in the Senate of the Authorization to Use Military Force in Iraq:

But we must understand that the ultimate measure of a war's success is the quality of the peace that follows. If, in the aftermath, we leave the Iraqi people to fend for themselves in chaos and squalor, without more freedom or opportunity, we will end up hindering, not advancing, the wider war against terrorism and slowing, not speeding, the world's march toward democracy and the rule of law.

And when Sen. Lieberman spoke at the Brookings Institute on April 26, 2004 -- when he, in essence, urged Democrats in an election year to stop being so critical of President Bush's decision to invade Iraq -- Sen. Lieberman warned that our national security depends upon what the outcome in Iraq will be, and made clear that a chaotic, violent Iraq would be devastating to American security:

I repeat, the outcome of this new war in Iraq will have enormous consequences for the people of Iraq, America and the world. If our enemies prevail and America retreats, Iraqis will face chaos, or a dictatorship, or both. The Iraqi domino could fall backwards as easily as it could fall forwards, and topple hopes for democracy throughout the Middle East. The region would be profoundly destabilized, which would gravely endanger American security, and the fanatical Islamic terrorists will be emboldened to take more aggressive actions against people in America, Europe and the Islamic world. The safety of our children’s future would be greatly endangered.

In March of 2004 on the Senate floor, Sen. Lieberman similarly warned: "If we fail to stop these insurgents and lose the peace in Iraq, we will condemn the Iraqi people to relentless violence, the Middle East will be destabilized, and we will give the forces of worldwide terrorism new confidence, new energy and new resources to attack us."

For exactly those reasons, the proponents of the destruction of Iraq have single-handedly done more damage to American national security than all other groups combined. And having insisted for years that the fate of the free world and American security hangs in the balance in Iraq, they now just want to forget about the whole thing, pretend it never happened, and shut their eyes to the disaster they created and which they so plainly cannot control.

It isn't just that our occupation of this imploding country is being ignored by the media. What is so striking is the way which Iraq is now being talked about. It is purely surreal how the primary challenge to Sen. Lieberman is described -- in a way that is intended to be dismissive, to belittle it -- as all stemming from just one little, tiny disagreement: Iraq. Gosh, Sen. Lieberman is such a great Senator -- he votes the right way on the environment and everything -- and all he did was make one little mistake -- Iraq -- and now everyone is turning on him. That is so irrational and mean and unfair.

It is the proponents of this invasion who have insisted that Iraq is the centerpiece of American national security, that it is the primary front in the war on terror, that failure is not an option, etc. etc. They used their militaristic posture in Iraq -- and the "appeasing weakness" of opponents of the invasion -- to win two consecutive national elections. And now that the extent of the damage they created is too glaring to be denied, they want to walk away from it all, insist that it's unfair to hold them accountable for it, and hope that the media moves on to more interesting and exciting adventures than the plodding, depressing collapse of Iraq.

But along with the assault being waged on the rule of law domestically, Iraq is the political issue of our time. Our preemptive, disastrous invasion of that country has fundamentally changed not just the perception of America's character around the world, but America's national character itself. We spawned chaos, militia rule, and a sectarian civil war in the middle of the most inflammable region on the planet, and did so while knowing that chaos and lawlessness are exactly the conditions in which terrorists groups thrive.

And we have no idea of how far things will unravel, of how far and wide this violence and instability will spread. But there is no greater danger to American national security -- no more potent ally of terrorism -- than the implosion of Iraq that our invasion created. And to know that, one can simply look at what the war proponents have been saying for the last four years.

What rationale exists for not holding accountable the architects and authors and advocates of this debacle? It is not irrational that political challenges are being made against war proponents. What would be irrational is if there were no such challenges. Those who advocated this invasion -- and, worse, those who continued to insist that things were going well long past the time when it was clear that such claims were false -- have revealed themselves to be completely lacking in judgment if not integrity and honesty. It is self-evident that removing that faction from political power is a critical goal, arguably the most critical.

It really seems as though the "plan" now in Iraq is just to step back and allow the whole country to collapse. That impression is strongly bolstered by the fact that war proponents seem eager to ignore Iraq and focus on other matters just as the civil war and destruction of that country seems to be reaching the point of no return. War proponents continuously argued that chaos, violence and instability in Iraq would be a grave threat to American security and a great ally of Al Qaeda and other terrorist groups. And yet exactly that situation has resulted from our invasion, and now the proponents of the war -- and apparently much of the media -- want to just forget about all of that.

UPDATE: Via Atrios, it seems that Lieberman himself yesterday "suggested that he wanted to move the debate away from the war. 'We’re going to try hard to focus this back on the issues that I think really are ultimately more important to the future of families in Connecticut: jobs, health care, education,'" he said.

Somehow, the war went from having "enormous consequences for the people of Iraq, America and the world" to being something that isn't really all that important to talk about.

121 comments:

  1. Glenn:

    Two words: Vietnam. 1968.

    They've haunted the established Democratic Party ever since. In my mind, Democrats learned exactly the wrong lesson from that debacle, just as -- in their own inimitable way -- the Republicans themselves did.

    I've lived too long.

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  2. Anonymous11:28 AM

    We can't start another war with Syria or Iran to take the focus off Iraq for the upcoming midterm elections, despite all the tough talk and saber-rattling. Israel was kind enough to oblige us.

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  3. Anonymous11:31 AM

    Oh yeah, one more thing. Go to Lieberman's website and see if you can find any mention of that war in Iraq. For siome reason it's not politically expedient to mention it now. No political capital to make there.

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  4. Anonymous11:43 AM

    Glenn... For exactly those reasons, the proponents of the destruction of Iraq have single-handedly done more damage to American national security than all other groups combined. And having insisted for years that the fate of the free world and American security hangs in the balance in Iraq, they now just want to forget about the whole thing, pretend it never happened, and shut their eyes to the disaster they created and which they so plainly cannot control.


    Gen. William Odom last week: Reverse Domino Theory

    Gen. William Odom says Vice President Cheney has it all wrong when he warns that the U.S. must stay in Iraq because failure there could prompt collapse elsewhere. In fact, now it looks like a new Arab-Israeli war could be breaking out precisely because our actions in Iraq have emboldened Iran and Syria.

    You can track the arc of his thinking on Iraq related issues in the archive at Neiman Watchdog. He always called the invasion a "major strategic policy blunder". About a year ago he was calling for cutting and running himself. Murtha got the press because he's a Democrat. Funny how that works.

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  5. Anonymous11:44 AM

    Here's a "mission accomplished:

    Iraq Radio: Turkish Soldiers Enter Northern Iraq

    The 1st division commander of Iraq’s Kurdistan Democrat Party (IKDP), Fahmi Sofi, claimed that about 200 Turkish soldiers entered two kilometers into Northern Iraq on Wednesday. His statement came from the Voice of Iraqi Radio.

    While debates about a cross-border operation continue in Turkey, Iraqi Radio announced that the Turkish military advanced into the Dohuk region, passing the Iraqi border.

    http://www.freespeechwar.com/smf/index.php?topic=2651.msg2858#msg2858

    ===========================
    Looks like it's time for the chimperor to stuff some socks in his underwear and prance around an aircraft carrier again.

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  6. Anonymous11:46 AM

    What ever happend to all our our "great decider's" political capital after he stole the 2004 election?


    Damn - did he spend it all on drinks celebrating?

    Typical alcoholic - one is too many and a thousand is not enough.

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  7. Anonymous11:51 AM

    Anonymous said...
    Here's a "mission accomplished:

    Iraq Radio: Turkish Soldiers Enter Northern Iraq


    It's like a tried to tell Paul Rosenberg. Afghanistan may have been a bad idea, but we pulled it off "on the cheap". Certain "strong men" took notice. Some became rather uncomfortable. That plot line could work in any number of places. Then we pissed it all away by taking our eyes off the ball. No one takes us seriously anymore. not even our allies. I mean, the whole world saw that bread stick chomping moron. It was not only embarassing it was demeaning. The world thinks we are a joke. Frankly, we are. Look! Over there! Something black and shiny under the sand! Chickenhawks. Cluck, cluck.

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  8. Anonymous11:57 AM

    William,

    Democrats have never been the "no war" party. You can count the number of actual practising pacifists in this country on your fingers and toes.

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  9. They used their militaristic posture in Iraq -- and the "appeasing weakness" of opponents of the invasion -- to win two consecutive national elections.

    Well, one consecutive national election, anyway.

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  10. anonymous: Typical alcoholic - one is too many and a thousand is not enough.

    Maybe, but I take GWB at his word about booze. To me his rabid focus on fitness, and his Old Testament foreign policy are symptomatic of an overzealous teetotaler, not a lush.

    I suspect that if he'd permit himself a martini or two before dinner the world would be a lot better off.

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  11. Anonymous11:58 AM

    I mean Eisenhower may have started putting advisors in Vietnam, but the Democrats, Kennedy, then Johnson, were urged to escalate by the MIC and did so rather willingly.

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  12. Anonymous12:05 PM

    William Timberman has never heard of a dry drunk or Dry Drunk Syndrome.

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  13. Anonymous12:08 PM

    Dry is not sober. Even with three sheets to the wind most people have more sobriety than Bush.

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  14. Anonymous12:08 PM

    Hey Glenn,

    It’s time to stop documenting the atrociteis and start acting. John over at Americablog has picked this up from today’s news.

    Bush submits new terror detainee bill

    ==From the article
    U.S. citizens suspected of terror ties might be detained indefinitely and barred from access to civilian courts under legislation proposed by the Bush administration, say legal experts reviewing an early version of the bill.

    Yeah they’re at it again. These people never stop. Get the phones warmed up. This thing needs to die next Wednesday before the armed services comittee. It needs to be sound bited on every news/comentary show. This bill is anti-american in its highest form. The cost of not taking the house back in November is to continue to fight this bs everyweek for the next two and a half years.


    This is especially terrible legislation coupled with an article like this one.

    Innocent People Placed On 'Watch List' To Meet Quota

    ===from the article
    Innocent People Placed On 'Watch List' To Meet Quota
    Marshals Say They Must File One Surveillance Detection Report, Or SDR, Per Month

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  15. anonymous: Democrats have never been the "no war" party.

    True, but irrelevant to my point. In 1964, a war was fought within the party over Civil Rights. The Dixiecrats won, temporarily anyway. This was a war deferred. The internal war in 1968 was fought to the death, and the victors, of course, were the Republicans.

    I myself was one of those Democrats who rebelled. There were many, many of us, but we were young, and not part of the party establishment. There was never any chance of us taking control of the party, especially after the assassination of Robert Kennedy, but we certainly helped wreck it.

    I think it was worth it, even though I'd be more circumspect about trying it again. What I mean is that I'd support Lamont, but not mass demonstrations at the Democratic convention.

    So...you're right as far as it goes, but.... I think fighting Johnson over the war was the right thing to have done. Joe Lieberman and Hillary Clinton do not. That was my point.

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  16. anonymous: William Timberman has never heard of a dry drunk

    If you'll permit me, since I know something about his motives, William Timberman was committing irony. It's not a capital offense.

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  17. Anonymous12:13 PM

    Makes you want to pull your hair out, doesn't it?

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  18. Anonymous12:16 PM

    From anonymous at 11:58am:

    I mean Eisenhower may have started putting advisors in Vietnam, but the Democrats, Kennedy, then Johnson, were urged to escalate by the MIC and did so rather willingly.

    Your point?

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  19. The media have moved away from covering Iraq for a simple reason: then CAN cover the Israeli assault on Lebanon. If, like a lot of these guys, you have the choice of being locked down behind security in Iraq or charging around a relatively developed country in which the beligerant (Hezbollah) whose turf you are on WANTS you to get the story, what would you do?

    But completely agree with Glenn that we on the home front must continue to focus on Iraq. I didn't like US world hegemony much, but I never thought our rulers would piss it away as they have. The project has always been to figure out how this country can live in the world peacefully. GWB and co. have made the only sane project much harder. The Dems have been incoherent for all my long life, but they offer slightly more openings toward sanity, so we push on.

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  20. Superb post, Glenn.

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  21. Anonymous12:43 PM

    And having insisted for years that the fate of the free world and American security hangs in the balance in Iraq, they now just want to forget about the whole thing, pretend it never happened, and shut their eyes to the disaster they created and which they so plainly cannot control.

    I'm with Arne: What Bush has inflicted on Iraq is not a misfortune of the sort that Mother Nature can create. It is not a disaster, and should not be mislabeled as such. It is a fiasco and tragedy of the sort to which only human bungling and hubris can aspire. It is a botch, blunder, debacle, fuck-up and should be labeled as such.

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  22. Anonymous12:51 PM

    So, for Shooter, our choices in Iraq are to cheer the victory there, applaud the "birth pangs" of "fundamentalist tantrums" there, and high-five Bush for going where no man has gone before; rejecting a cease fire in Lebanon because he's so committed to peace.

    Every disaster that was predicted in Iraq happened exactly as it was predicted. Now that the disasters are unfolding, people like Shooter are spraining their fingers turning disaster into success.

    And, typically, hundreds of thousands of civilian deaths are less important to Shooter than ours. He should put his comment on a huge sign, go to Iraq, and walk through Baghdad waving it.

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  23. We’re going to try hard to focus this back on the issues that I think really are ultimately more important to the future of families in Connecticut: jobs, health care, education

    Glenn, surely this is anti-Lamontism in advance of the primary. It'd sure be swell for him if he didn't have to answer for his warmongering, but I'm not sure at this late date that such a disingenuous fandance will play. We'll see, I guess....

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  24. Anonymous12:52 PM

    Shooter claims: In contrast to Southern Lebanon, the bombings in Iraq are just fundamentalist tantrums.

    I'd be deeply curious to learn, from you and from all others who continue to defend Bush's Iraq policies, what scenario you posit would constitute failure of said policies? Is there one?

    Is failure possible? Under any conceivable result, would the interests of the United States be less well-served by post-invasion Iraq than by the status quo ante?

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  25. Anonymous12:55 PM

    From shoot242 at 12:31pm:

    Collapse? Point of no return? Glenn you're starting to sound like a tabloid. Why?

    In contrast to your rambling, nonsensical comment, Glenn is the picture of clarity.

    What, precisely were you trying to say here?

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  26. Anonymous12:57 PM

    I know, that you know, there is a real live struggle to the death going on elsewhere, that encapsulates nearly all the conflict around the globe.

    In contrast to Southern Lebanon, the bombings in Iraq are just fundamentalist tantrums.


    Read Odom:

    Recently on national television, Vice President Cheney warned that withdrawing U.S. forces from Iraq would prompt the collapse of governments in other countries in the region, namely Pakistan, Egypt, and Saudi Arabia, putting them in the hands of radical Islamist rulers.

    Cheney has it exactly backwards. Our continued entanglement is what is destabilizing the region.

    The escalating conflict between Israel and Hezbollah and Hamas could become a new Arab-Israeli War. And it is precisely our actions in Iraq that have opened the door for Iran and Syria to support Hezbollah and Hamas actions without much to fear from the U.S.

    ...

    Is the domino theory valid for the Middle East? No, not any more than it was in Vietnam. But a reverse domino theory is. The longer the U.S. stays in Iraq, the more likely the collapse of the secular regimes in those Muslim nations, and the more likely a full-scale war between Israel and its neighbors. It’s American departure from Iraq that could prevent it.

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  27. So "Success" in battling the strain of religious fanaticism that struck the US on 9-11 is overthrowing a secular dictator and replacing him with Iraqi clerics desirous of deeper ties with their Iranian brethren?

    "Mission Accomplished" indeed!

    Shooter's ever-increasing desperation in backing an Administration so divorced from reality will just get more shrill and reality-deficient itself leading up to the November elections

    I thought Karl Rove's nonindictment was supposed to signal his aggressively righting the rapidly capsizing USS GOP, and further woes for all the Administration's critics

    Apparently, Rove isn't quite the political genius we've all been lead to believe

    The sooner these radicals-who do NOT represent the political and social mainstream in this country-are thrown out of power, the sooner the US can recover from the most Constitution-Raping Administration ever

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  28. Throwing Lieberman's own words in the faces of the 101st Keyboarders -- brilliant.

    And it is rather amazing how, for the first time, an entire war has gone AWOL. What on earth will the Administration talk about now?

    I smell Orange Alert.

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  29. Anonymous2:23 PM

    Shooter242 said:

    I know, that you know, there is a real live struggle to the death going on elsewhere, that encapsulates nearly all the conflict around the globe.

    Nonsense.

    In contrast to Southern Lebanon, the bombings in Iraq are just fundamentalist tantrums. You sound like you're ticked because the left is looking at a heavy dose of reality and who are really the agressors here.

    Even though your premise is stunningly flawed, using the "just" makes it even more disgusting. The United States, clearly, was and are the agressors in Iraq.

    US casualties are diminishing and we haven't entered the Israeli conflict as other than suppliers and the world cannot refuse the good intentions of Israel thwarted by the Hamas and Hezbos.

    Can one sentence contain more ignorant, preposterous compound statements?

    This is in fact an opportunity to have the world, condemn muslim militants wherever they are. That's a good thing, remember?

    Except, of course, when we're supporting them (like when they were fighing the evil Ruskies, remember?).

    As always, if the muslim militants lay down their arms, the killing quickly goes to zero. That is what you want, yes? No?

    And just how do you propose in your infinite wisdom to get them to "lay down their arms?"

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  30. Anonymous2:44 PM

    And just how do you propose in your infinite wisdom to get them to "lay down their arms?"

    Oh, that's simple. You just take a group of a billion Muslims, spend a trillion dollars to shoot 0.01% of them, then the remaining 99.99% decide that their only option is to become your friends.

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  31. Anonymous2:46 PM

    The article Glenn referenced in his July 26 entry on Rumsfeld not quite denying civil war in Iraq, has vanished. Though Glenn captured the quote, I was interested in the source.

    Anyone?

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  32. Anonymous2:47 PM

    This is just a game to Bart. The debate. He doesn't even believe what he says anymore. It's just important to fight reality and liberalism to the death. Shooter actually believes the drivel he spews about Iraq.

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  33. Anonymous2:51 PM

    There is definitely a memory hole but articles don't vanish that fast.

    The page cannot be found
    The page you are looking for might have been removed, had its name changed, or is temporarily unavailable.


    Copy the specific text and google it.

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  34. anonymous: Oh, that's simple. You just take a group of a billion Muslims, spend a trillion dollars to shoot 0.01% of them, then the remaining 99.99% decide that their only option is to become your friends.

    Brilliant, but it's pearls before swine, I'm afraid. The one thing I regret most about the current incumbency paranoia of the Democratic Party, is that plain-speaking of this eloquence doesn't ever get heard from the campaign stump.

    Anon, in my opinion, this is right up there with A house divided against itself cannot stand. Kudos.

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  35. And we have no idea of how far things will unravel, of how far and wide this violence and instability will spread.

    The entire Middle East might end up looking like Iraq if neoconservatives get their way.

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  36. Anonymous3:20 PM

    Shooter 242. Don't they have things to photograph in Iraq or Lebanon, Shooter? Document the atrocities for us.

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  37. Anonymous3:50 PM

    Re: Leiberman

    As much as hold ol' Joe in contempt, the reason he's in so much trouble is not his stand on the war, but the fact that he's taken his constituants completely for granted. If he doesn't at least pretend to be worrying about local issues, he's going to lose.

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  38. Glenn: the Israel-Lebanon war is not (yet) "our war," despite the zealous dreams of American warmongers. What is very much our war is the true disaster taking place in Iraq.

    No, they're both "our wars", however nice it would be if the U.S. were not playing the role it does now in the Israeli-Hezbollah-Lebanon war. Too much U.S. support -- financial ($3-12 billion annually), military, diplomatic, political -- to be able to pretend otherwise.

    The whole rest of the world sees us as joined irrevocably, as the superpower backing up the midpower (because Israel is far more than a client state). And our entire political establishment, in both parties, has gone out of its way to reaffirm the correctness of that view in the last week.

    What's true is that there is more division in our political system over Iraq policy, and therefore better prospects for bringing about change.

    However, our responsibility to work for a change in this country's policy toward the war in northern Israel and Lebanon does not disappear just because the political landscape is frozen.

    Our names are on those missiles.

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  39. Anonymous4:30 PM

    Welcome to My Parlor

    .....Similarly, the Iraqi puppet government, whose impotence is now almost total, may call for a complete domestic cease-fire so it could order the "New Iraqi Army" to Lebanon. Even al-Qaeda would have trouble saying no. The U.S. would howl bloody murder, but such an open breach with the Americans is exactly what the Green Zone regime needs if it is to gain even a shred of legitimacy. The possibility is far-fetched, but an emerging Hezbollah victory over Israel will make many far-fetched possibilities real.

    A Hezbollah success against the hated Israelis will give governments throughout the Islamic world a stark choice. They can either snuggle up as close to Hezbollah and other Islamic 4GW entities as they can get, hoping to catch some reflected legitimacy, or they can become Vichy to their own peoples. Since the first rule of politics is to survive, I think we can look forward to a great deal of the former.

    From that perspective, the Tea Lady, AKA U.S. Secretary of State Condi Rice, may just have uttered the most significant words of her remarkably empty career. Departing on her meaningless "shuttle diplomacy," meaningless because we will only talk to one side, she said current events mark "the birth pangs of a new Middle East, and whatever we do, we have to be certain that we are pushing forward to the new Middle East, not going back to the old one." Don't worry; we are, we are.


    From an article in yesterday's NY TIMES:

    Egypt's opposition press has had a field day comparing Sheik Nasrallah to Nasser while demonstraters waved pictures of both.

    An editorial in the weekly Al Dustur by Ibrahinm Issa, who faces a lengthy jail sentence for his previous criticism of President Mubarak, compared current Arab leaders to the medieval princes who let the Crusaders chip away at Muslim lands until they controlled them all.

    After attending an intellectual rally in Cairo for Lebanon, the Egyptian poet Ahmed Fouad Negm wrote a piece describing how he had watched a companion buy 29 posters of Shiek Nassarallah.

    "People are praying for him as they walk in the street, because we were made to feel oppressed, weak and handicapped." Mr. Negm said in an interview. "I asked the man who sweeps the street under my building what he thought, and he said Unicle Ahmed, he has awakend the dead man inside me! May God make him trimphant."


    The masses may be powerless, but that doesn't mean they're stupid. The difference between Nasrallah and those corrupt, depraved, bloated, conniving, despotic, ruthless Chop Chop Square rulers of the Arab countries that the United States and Isreal have been playing footsie with is as visible as black and white to the man in the street.

    I see now why the Danish Cartoons took on Brobdinagian proportions on sites like the Volokh Conspiracy, Atlas Shrugs, ARI and others. It's part of one of the biggest propaganda attempts in history. I wouldn't care so much if a casualty of it were not American civil liberties, the Constitution, and specfically the Fourth Amendment.

    The Dark Side would like everyone in the world to think this is a religious war, a jihad of Islamic terrorists against the angelic, civilized West which so threatens our security that we have to turn over our freedoms.

    Everything that has happened is because that myth is the one which got floated the most widely.

    It seems, however, that the truth is the story is about how oppressed people in the new age of information, alternate media, the blogosphere, etc. have become aware because of modern information technology of how they are being exploited by their own corrupt governments and want to get rid of these bullies once and for all. If they see someone else standing up to a bully, they are going to identify with that group the way moviegoers in this county identified here with Rocky Balboa.

    Maybe there is a New World Order but it might not be the one the neo-cons and their brethren anticipated. Maybe the corrupt governments that govern almost every major country in this world are being increasingly exposed because of alternate media which is finally reaching the masses as emperors with no clothes who may one day be given their pink slips.

    The more propaganda to which people are exposed the longer it takes them to get to the truth. Americans and Israelis get more propaganda per capita than anyone else in the rest of the world.

    But even in America and Israel, the seeds of dissent have been sowing.

    On Glenn's blog we have seen him widen his focus from the NSA spying scandal to a President run amok, to a Presidency run amok, to a Government run amok and it looks like now he's headed to the main ring: a world run amok because corrupt authoritarian governments have betrayed the individuals they represent. I think someone said this before: Power corrupts :)

    I'm not arguing for revolution. Usually the revolutionaries who win just morph into the same bloated corrupt rulers they depose.

    I am arguing that an explosion in information may pierce through the lies and finally put a fatal bullet through the heart of the monster which has had a stranglehold on the masses throughout history: propaganda.

    Even domestically we've seen how the Keyboard brigades and recently those who launched such vicious attacks against Glenn will not tolerate anyone who deviates from the party line. Their first instinct is to crush them.

    Everyone loves a Rocky. That's why the world community has risen in such support of a Nasrollah who prior to this Israeli/Lebanon conflict was almost unilaterally depicted in the Ministries of Propaganda of this world as a religious fanatic and a terrorist.

    Maybe he is. Only scholars like Juan Cole and countless others (Billmon seems to know a lot as do Justin and PCR and the hundreds of political writers who write stories for foreign newspapers and alternate media outlets in this country) know enough about Middle East history to be able to offer educated observations about current events.

    But the truth is that if you had to buy a used car from someone, who would you buy it from: Bush, Blair, the Saudi human traffiking despots or Nasrollah?

    You go, Glenn! The enemy is authoritarianism and nobody challenges it better than Glenn.

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  40. Anonymous4:42 PM

    PS.

    l) Glenn are you on to this FBI supeona for Tice to testify?

    2) Thersites 11 wrote about the Vichy Democrats and was shunned by some of the biggest "lefty" blogs which are associated with the Democratic Party.

    Vichy is what it's all about, really.

    But when those same blogs did something worthwhile like getting behind Lamont and coming out against Lieberman, they got praise from people like Justin Raimondo who keeps his eye on the big picture.

    Clinton may try to distract with fat kids and their eating habits (I can't get off that---it's more absurd than the Danish cartoons even--with everything now going on in the world and America now taking actions which put our own vital interests as Americans in such jeopardy abroad and actually do threaten our security if a global jihad against Americans is the result of our tyrannical neocon foreign policies, Clinton wants us to address the issue of fat kids---unbelievable) and Lieberman may want to talk about litter laws in Connecticut and FDL may have been hoodwinked by Patrick Police Dog (no junkyard dog he) but only those sections of the "left" which address the real issues have anything to do with anything that is important.

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  41. Glenn: very sudden, and virtually complete, disappearance of the war in Iraq from the media radar

    Could you give some examples of what this complete disappearance consists of? I realize it's hard to prove a negative, but I see no sudden, much less complete disappearance of stories this week.

    The Washington Post is featuring excerpts from Thomas Ricks' Fiasco.

    They also ran a front-page story on Thursday, 'Waiting to Get Blown Up', on what it's like to serve in Iraq now.

    Universal coverage of al-Maliki's visit focused attention on Iraq, even if only to display the gulf between on-the-ground reality and his and Bush's statements.

    There was widespread coverage of the sending of the last 5000 troops available into Baghdad, in an implicit admission that the 'offensive' there had failed to cut down on violence.

    The NY Times covered preparations for the courts martial of soldiers charged with killing three detainees in May north of Baghdad.

    What are the absences of coverage that you're referring to, Glenn?

    ReplyDelete
  42. Anonymous4:46 PM

    goodasgold: I think you can find an article on those Rumsfeld comments over at Huffington Post. Look for the news flashes of a few days ago lower down on their main page.

    ReplyDelete
  43. Anonymous4:53 PM

    Ok, Glenn, new story time:

    Bush submits new terror detainee bill

    U.S. citizens suspected of terror ties might be detained indefinitely and barred from access to civilian courts under legislation proposed by the Bush administration, say legal experts reviewing an early version of the bill.

    ReplyDelete
  44. Anonymous5:00 PM

    I join WT in applauding "anon"s post of 2:44. As wise an observation as it is pithy. We should all wear tee shirts with that printed on them.

    ReplyDelete
  45. Anonymous5:00 PM

    I'm amazed any politician has the NERVE to use the word "domino" after the smashing success of Vietnam. My lord.

    ReplyDelete
  46. Iraq isn't getting much airplay in the media, and New Orleans is totaly invisible. That city is still a mess, and is testament to the criminal incompetence of the Bush adminisration.

    ReplyDelete
  47. Excellent post.

    I suspect the current war plan is to contain the disaster at a level where the media can continue to ignore it until after the November elections. After that, things will probably be guided by two lofty principles: One, Machiavelli's advice that bad news should be announced all at once for minimum impact just as good news should be announced gradually for maximum impact, and, two, that the sooner it comes after the election, the more time people will have to forget it or at least get used to it before 2008.

    This post also reminded me of media's power to make things appear and disappear. That's why I think demonstrations are a waste of time and resources, at least in North America. The media can disappear them. I remember that from 1991. It was very striking. They dematerialized an existing political movement, the one against the Gulf War, and materialized a non-existent one, Poppy Bush's "political correctness movement." This time they've dematerialized the war itself. Incredible, but, at the same time, only an incremental advance.

    We need media reform as much as we need political reform. In fact, I don't think we can have one without the other.

    ReplyDelete
  48. Anonymous5:22 PM

    "And yet the proponents of this war seem to be eager to simply forget the whole thing and just move on to their next little project".

    Not for the first time in recent years. Anyone remember Afghanistan?

    ReplyDelete
  49. Anonymous5:26 PM

    I wish I didn't click on the first link to Peter Beinart's smarmy column. I also wish I didn't scan through all the comments left by trolls.

    It's too friggin' hot to get my blood pressure up.

    ReplyDelete
  50. Anonymous5:27 PM

    Townhall.com columnist Mark M. Alexander asks What's wrong with the Republican Party, and publicly hallucinates:

    Yes, Republican principals have shown great leadership on national-security issues -- most notably prosecuting the war with Jihadistan. However, they have failed to articulate why the Bush Doctrine of Pre-Emption is, clearly, the best method for defending our nation against catastrophic attacks by Islamofascists. Weak-kneed Republicans have been run over by Senate Demo Leader Harry Reid, House Demo Leader Nancy Pelosi, and their gang of traitors, who have succeeded in undermining the nation's resolve in Operation Iraqi Freedom.

    ReplyDelete
  51. Anonymous5:35 PM

    Dipshit said, "Why are you Glenn?

    Still blogging away, seriously,something someone else.

    Your credibility is significant. Use the bandwith for blog analyes. Your traffic are laughed at...quit deluding for their sheer fatuosness and vacuity.

    Let yourself go."


    I think that makes much more sense than usual, Dipshit. Keep trying.

    ReplyDelete
  52. Anonymous5:35 PM

    Surely, "Eyes Wide Open" has become a total embarrassment to Glenn Greenwald. She writes as if her ever-more-irrational comments somehow represent his thinking. It is even embarrassing to watch. I am posting this anonymously because I am embarrassed to comment in the same forum, and I agree with much of what Glenn posts.

    Please, EYO, just go away. Start you own blog.

    ReplyDelete
  53. shooter242:This is a good example of why when beating someone it behooves the "victor" to ensure the "vanquished" can't come back to haunt you

    Doesn't work so well here, does it?

    Shooter, I'm afraid that you've once again confused crushing your enemies, seeing them driven before you, and hearing the lamentations of their women with misdemeanor indecent exposure.

    ReplyDelete
  54. Anonymous5:39 PM

    shooter242:This is a good example of why when beating someone it behooves the "victor" to ensure the "vanquished" can't come back to haunt you

    More wisdom from the Godfather, or just plain old Machiavelli? Just leave the guns to the adults, Pooter. Shut up and eat the canoli.

    ReplyDelete
  55. Anonymous5:41 PM

    On second though, Pooter... Perhaps it would be best if you leave the canoli and eat the gun.

    ReplyDelete
  56. Anonymous5:43 PM

    Anonymous 5:35 PM

    Ohh a concern troll: new for this blog for what I remember...

    Well the only embarassing thing here is your lack of courage posting with no nome. You have a bone to pick with ewo ? Put a name on your post and stand your ground.. if you have the balls for it of course.

    ReplyDelete
  57. And bye the bye, shooter, there's at least a dozen of us here that can do this to you all day without even needing anyone to hold our coats.

    Do run along, now, won't you? I'm sure there's a spot at LGF where your military prowess and your scintillating wit will be amply appreciated.

    ReplyDelete
  58. anonymous: Surely, "Eyes Wide Open" has become a total embarrassment to Glenn Greenwald

    Not now, not ever. This is a dialogue. EWO is an honest and thoughtful participant. You are not.

    ReplyDelete
  59. Anonymous5:57 PM

    yankeependragon said...
    From anonymous at 11:58am:

    I mean Eisenhower may have started putting advisors in Vietnam, but the Democrats, Kennedy, then Johnson, were urged to escalate by the MIC and did so rather willingly.

    Your point?


    It's pretty obvious, to me at least, that the Democratic party is far from the tree-hugging, flower power party that the media seems so willing to paint it as because the Republicans say they should.The plain fact is that there are more "isolationists" on the right than the left, and a few on the right who would even cut military spending. Don't kid yourself. From Harmon to Feinstein and anywhere else the MIC has industries or interests, the Democrats have their hands out to those segments and do not go unrewarded. I wonder just who is opposed to the F-22 Raptor? I know some libertarians who think it's a waste of money. Let's just see what Democrats agree. I have nothing against Dennis Kucinich. In fact, I wish there were more politicians who thought like him. But that is a long way off and now that the world is definitely a less friendly place to America, thanks to the right wing morons, it's a lot farther off. There is no such thing as an "arsenal of democracy". If there were, every democracy would be a super-power. They just aren't. most of them are social democracies. The "arsenal" comes from militarism or fascism and is funded by capitalism. It certainly had nothing to with communism or socialism, or we'd still be fighting the Cold War. Naturally, we had to come up with a new threat. I'm not saying anything Eisenhower or Goldwater wouldn't be saying today if they were here.

    ReplyDelete
  60. Anonymous6:04 PM

    Townhall.com columnist Bill O'Reilly seems to disagree with Townhall.com columnist Mark M. Alexander. The latter knows that Operation Iraqi Freedom is a huge success and example of brilliant GOP leadership, which the public fails to understand only because "traitors" like Harry Reid have connived to convince the masses that all is not well in Iraq. But not Bill, no, he sees things more clearly.

    Bill concedes that there is a "bloody stalemate in Iraq." That is not due to Senator Reid's perfidy, however, but rather it is because "the world is not going to help Iraq form a democracy."

    I love that site; it has it all.

    ReplyDelete
  61. Anonymous6:09 PM

    "Hypatia" said...
    Townhall.com columnist Bill O'Reilly seems to disagree with Townhall.com columnist Mark M. Alexander.

    I love that site; it has it all.


    Clownhall.com

    ReplyDelete
  62. Anonymous6:10 PM

    The region would be profoundly destabilized, which would gravely endanger American security

    Mission accomplished.

    ReplyDelete
  63. Anonymous6:13 PM

    Nice piece as usual. Lieberman is a small price to pay for the powers that be in the Democratic Party to realize that there's a difference between the two parties (not enough of one IMO, but still).

    And a shot across the bow at Hillary's candidacy, which is fine by me.

    ReplyDelete
  64. Anonymous6:16 PM

    I suppose this could mean support is bipartisan as well. I wouldn't be surprised.

    Opposition to the F-22 is bipartisan. In the summer of 2002, Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld moved to cancel the plane, backing off only when Secretary of the Air Force James Roche threatened to resign. In a recent piece in Foreign Affairs, conservative Fred Kagan pointed out that a single F-22 could pay for 3,000 additional American troops. As the military struggles to afford the costs of repairing and replacing equipment damaged in Iraq, choosing to waste $11 billion on an unnecessary Cold War relic is an outrage.

    ReplyDelete
  65. Anonymous6:23 PM

    Gallup: Current Negativism on Iraq Echoes View of Vietnam War in 1970

    By E&P Staff

    Published: July 28, 2006 12:45 PM ET

    NEW YORK An analysis released today by Frank Newport, director of The Gallup Poll, shows that current public wishes for U.S. policy in the Iraq war eerily echo attitudes about the Vietnam war in 1970.

    The most recent Gallup poll this month found that 52% of adult Americans want to see all U.S. troops out of Iraq within a year, with 19% advocating immediate withdrawal. In the summer of 1970, Gallup found that 48% wanted a pullout within a year, with 23% embracing the “immediate” option. Just 7% want to send more troops now, vs. 10% then.

    At present, 56% call the decision to invade Iraq a “mistake,” with 41% disagreeing. Again this echoes the view of the Vietnam war in 1970, when that exact same number, 56%, in May 1970 called it a mistake in a Gallup poll.

    While the U.S. involvement in the Korean war is often labeled unpopular, the highest number calling it a mistake in a Gallup poll was 51% in early 1952. That number actually declined to 43% by the end of that year.

    ReplyDelete
  66. Anonymous6:35 PM

    I just got this from some friends in Israel:

    Syria, Iran Made Defense Pact Before War

    By ELI LAKE - Staff Reporter of the Sun
    July 28, 2006

    TEL AVIV, Israel — Signs of a regional war engulfing the Middle East began to arise yesterday, with Israel entering its third week of war against Hezbollah in southern Lebanon and Al Qaeda's top deputy promising reprisals.

    Israeli strategic planners here say they are closely watching whether Iran will deliver on President Ahmadinejad's promise last week to make an announcement that would neutralize Israel's nuclear threat.

    During a briefing yesterday, an Israeli analyst also said it is believed that on June 16, nearly a month before Hezbollah's cross-border raid on Israel, Iran and Syria signed a mutual defense treaty following a meeting of their defense ministers.

    The agreement, signed between Iran's defense minister, Mustafa Najjar, and his Syrian counterpart, Hasssan Turkmani, at the time was described as a "military cooperation agreement" by the London-based daily Asharq Al-Awsat, according to the Middle East Media Research Institute.

    The paper quoted a statement from Mr. Turkmani as saying, "We are examining ways to counter these threats, and are establishing a joint front against Israel's threats." According to Israel and America, both countries are funding and facilitating the shipment of missiles to Hezbollah.

    The prospect that Iran would come to Syria's defense should Israel bomb Damascus in retaliation for Hezbollah strikes came into focus this week after Iran's ambassador in Beirut promised to counter an Israeli attack on Syria with "full power."

    While that statement was disavowed the next day by an Iranian foreign ministry spokesman, Israeli officials are saying the prospect of Iran becoming directly involved in the war between Israel and Hezbollah was one reason the Jewish state has refrained from striking Syria, whose territory has been a landbridge between Hezbollah and southern Lebanon.

    "I think there is some kind of Iranian-Syrian defense treaty," the deputy director of the Washington Institute for Near East Policy, Patrick Clawson, said. "We don't know if they would enter the fray, or the details of the treaty. I think Iran's president would very much like to agitate to act on Syria's defense and send Iranian armaments to Syria." Mr. Clawson added that ultimately it was Ayatollah Khamenei's decision to make, not Mr. Ahmadinejad's.

    Meanwhile, early signs that Sunni Wahhabi Muslims might stay out of the fight in Lebanon were shattered yesterday after Al-Jazeera aired a video of Al Qaeda's second in command, Ayman al-Zawahiri, promising his terror organization would "attack crusaders and Zionists."

    In that message, Al Qaeda's deputy appeared alongside a photograph of Abu Musab Zarqawi, the dead Al Qaeda leader whose war against Shiite civilians in Iraq led Mr. Zawahiri to criticize his tactics.

    Last week, The New York Sun reported a fatwa declared by a senior Saudi sheik ordering the faithful not to pray for, support, or join the Shiite Hezbollah.

    Israel's war Cabinet met yesterday in Tel Aviv and decided to call up another 30,000 reservists. However, Defense Minister Amir Peretz also said the Jewish state had no plans to either attack Syria directly or expand the operations and bombing sorties on Lebanon. Despite the Israeli response, 78 rockets landed in Israel yesterday.

    One factor in the building pressure for a wider war in the region is the failure of world powers Wednesday to reach an immediate cease-fire agreement after the White House for the most part rejected a proposal to stop the violence that was floated at a meeting of top diplomats in Rome.

    President Bush has said he will not settle for an agreement that fails to address the root problem of Hezbollah, a position the Israelis have interpreted as a green light to continue their offensive against the militia's bases in southern Lebanon.

    America's allies in the Arab world may be starting to turn in light of the failure to stop the war. King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia on Tuesday declared, "Saudi Arabia warns everybody that if the peace option fails because of Israeli arrogance, there will be no other option but war."

    On Sunday, the Saudi foreign minister said he was hopeful about efforts to reach an immediate cease-fire after a meeting with Mr. Bush. At the beginning of the conflict on July 12, Saudi, Egyptian, and Jordanian officials were critical of Hezbollah.

    Today, President Chavez of Venezuela will arrive in Tehran for a three-day visit after securing an arms agreement with Russia that met criticism from the State Department for the prospect it would destabilize South America.

    Mr. Chavez is set to meet with Mr. Ahmadinejad and other top Iranian officials. For the last two years, the Venezuelan president has said he feels an American attack on his country to be inevitable.


    I wonder if Bushco ever heard the expression "guns or butter"?

    Not that I approve of eating animal products, but it would seem "butter" is going to be in short supply if we attack Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, Syria, Lebanon, and finish that off with Venezuela.

    What's next? North Korea?

    Testosterone run amok.

    ReplyDelete
  67. Anonymous7:13 PM

    TYRE, Lebanon - Israeli troops pulled back from a key Lebanese border town Saturday where it battled Hezbollah for a week, claiming to have finished its mission after the bloodiest ground fight of the 18-day war.

    Really? What was its mission? To lose?

    Hezbollah leader Sheik Hassan Nasrallah threatened in a TV broadcast to attack more cities in central Israel, as Israeli warplanes blasted bridges and demolished houses in southern Lebanon, killing seven people, including a woman and her five children.

    The battle for Bint Jbail has symbolized Israel's difficulty in pushing guerrillas back from the border, whether by air bombardment or ground assault.... Lebanese civilians have born the brunt of the Israeli onslaught.

    ReplyDelete
  68. Yep, shooter, you did miss it. And you can put the gun away -- this won't hurt at all.

    Over here, shooter.

    No, over here....

    ReplyDelete
  69. Anonymous7:15 PM

    Shooter said.....

    *and the world cannot refuse the good intentions of Israel thwarted by the Hamas and Hezbos.*


    I don't know which world you are talking about, but from where I'm sitting the world just got a whole lot angrier at Israel for this outrage, and people are seriously pissed at the spineless politicians who aren't condemning them.

    ReplyDelete
  70. Anonymous7:20 PM

    Shooter242

    "Do what, exactly?"

    Run circles around you verbally without breaking a sweat...

    Not that a single digit IQ person like you would notice it of course

    ReplyDelete
  71. You chose the ground, shooter, kinda like old yellow hair did. See those feathers sticking up out of the weeds? Maybe you should call in air support while you still can.

    ReplyDelete
  72. Anonymous7:32 PM

    Shooter242 said...

    Do what, exactly?

    Try to win your heart and mind and bring you over to the sunny side of the street.

    I haven't given up hope that your being exposed to all the thoughts expressed on this blog, despite the fact you deny most of them and rail against them, will start to change your view of things.

    Let's let my hero Albert Schweitzer speak:

    In everyone's life, at some time, our inner fire goes out. It is then burst into flame by an encounter with another human being. We should all be thankful for those people who rekindle the inner spirit.
    Albert Schweitzer


    Constant kindness can accomplish much. As the sun makes ice melt, kindness causes misunderstanding, mistrust, and hostility to evaporate.
    Albert Schweitzer


    What does this have to do with Iraq, Lebanon and the neocon warmongering that you support?

    Let me give you a definition of ethics: It is good to maintain and further life; it is bad to damage and destroy life.
    Albert Schweitzer

    Ethics is nothing else than reverence for life.
    Albert Schweitzer


    And everyone on this blog should remember the following:

    Compassion, in which all ethics must take root, can only attain its full breadth and depth if it embraces all living creatures and does not limit itself to mankind.
    Albert Schweitzer

    ReplyDelete
  73. Shooter, as Eyes Wide Open notes, we're a peaceful, compassionate people. Do take the olive branch, do. Smoke the pipe of peace. Lay down your weary tune, and so forth.

    We mean you no harm. You stop lifting your leg on our front door, hell, we'll fix you dinner.

    ReplyDelete
  74. Anonymous7:49 PM

    Just got to this thread today.

    Quick suggestion. Shooter has managed to get a few to take the bait. Time to let him and his type of thinking go, at least for this thread.

    ReplyDelete
  75. Anonymous7:49 PM

    WT: thx.

    Anon, did you notice that I always state the obvious: that I don't have enough facts to determine the truth about complicated foreign political situations.

    Nevertheless, I try to look at things as other would who keep open minds. If you think my comments about Nasrollah are biased in favor of a terrorist group (apparently your own slant), then perhaps you have not yet read the worldwide press that is addressing the popular support he is getting from people all over the world.

    The governments of Egypt and Saudi Arabia had to alter their own initial responses upon pressure from their own citizens.

    My point isn't who is right and who is wrong. My point is that when people feel oppressed and victimized by those who rule them, their sympathies go to those who are apparently sticking up for others with whom they identify.

    Not recognizing this fact and simply plowing forward with our neocon agenda might actually be jeopardizing our very existence.

    There are a billion Muslims in the world according to "anon" at 2:44. Whatever some of them are or are not, unless we find some way for America to be seen as either a friend or a neutral observer, we're in trouble.

    You deny that?

    As for Glenn. I have no idea what he thinks about anything nor do you other than what he has written.

    I would guess he agrees with some things any commenter here writes and disagrees with others.

    That doesn't mean each of us is not free to interpret Glenn's mission in the way that makes the most sense to us. Why do you have a problem with that? You sound like a dissident shareholder. In what corporation is it that you are seeking to protect your stock?

    Stop associating my ideas with Glenn's. I don't see any posts from you associating Paul Rosenberg's thoughts with Glenn's although I would guess there is much that Paul Rosenberg writes with which Glenn agrees, and some which he does not.

    If you put a name to your own ideas, or rather attacks, then we could figure out where you're coming from. You choose not to do that for what I am sure are reasons to do with your duplicitous motives in posting on this blog.

    ReplyDelete
  76. Anonymous7:55 PM

    Eyes Wide Open

    You surely have an incredible faith in the possibility to shine a light on the dark content of a mind like the one that can be seen through the often despicable words used by whoever is using the shooter242 moniker.

    I envy you for that faith I must say (as well as I envy your being so levelheaded): let's hope you are right and something gets there...

    ReplyDelete
  77. Anonymous8:00 PM

    WT: I've lived too long.

    Not hardly. Only long enough to have gained more wisdom than most have. Plus, I love your humor!

    Kimba: Hold your envy :) That's just my Plan A.

    Plan B is to borrow a phrase from the wonderful Arne and respond "FOAD". But don't tell Albert Schweitzer....

    ReplyDelete
  78. anonymous: Quick suggestion

    Suggestion noted. Matters of consequence are still being discussed. This is just a temporary divertissement. Dig, we must and all that.

    ReplyDelete
  79. Anonymous8:04 PM

    Cross my heart, I 'll keep it hush with him ... :)

    ReplyDelete
  80. Anonymous8:37 PM

    Did I forget the Basque and Frencgh Canadian separatists?

    ReplyDelete
  81. Anonymous8:39 PM

    "But there is no greater danger to American national security -- no more potent ally of terrorism -- than the implosion of Iraq that our invasion created."

    Correction. The Bush Republicans' attempt to install a dictatorship in the United States, with the concomittant decision to ignore all actual security issues (port inspections?) in favor of harassing brown people, is a greater danger to American national security, *and* a more potent ally of terrorism, IMNSHO.

    ReplyDelete
  82. Anonymous8:43 PM

    >Epinions.com ID: shooter242
    Member Since: Mar 03 '03

    Retired freelance photographer just moved from Charleston SC to Jersey. Don't ask.


    Try and stop me. So, Shooter, why did you have to leave South Carolina? Legal troubles? Divorce? Civil litigation? Criminal matter?

    ReplyDelete
  83. Anonymous8:47 PM

    Heh. I bet you didn't last long at FDL, did you? Got run out of there, too?

    shooter242 says:

    April 24th, 2006 at 6:14 am

    On Fox marquee…. Iran will allow women into sports stadiums.
    Where the hell is the outrage of feminism regarding Sharia?


    April 24th, 2006 at 6:14 am

    On Fox marquee…. Iran will allow women into sports stadiums.
    Where the hell is the outrage of feminism regarding Sharia?

    ReplyDelete
  84. Anonymous9:06 PM

    Mel Gibson For President!!!

    Atrios for Secretary of State!!!

    The Passion of Mel Gibson!

    I see that Mel Gibson got his ass arrested last night for driving while intoxicated.


    Here are some of the more notable quotes:

    “My life is f****d.”

    Law enforcement sources say the deputy, worried that Gibson might become violent, told the actor that he was supposed to cuff him but would not, as long as Gibson cooperated. As the two stood next to the hood of the patrol car, the deputy asked Gibson to get inside. Deputy Mee then walked over to the passenger door and opened it. The report says Gibson then said, “I’m not going to get in your car,” and bolted to his car. The deputy quickly subdued Gibson, cuffed him and put him inside the patrol car.

    “You mother f****r. I’m going to f*** you.” The report also says “Gibson almost continually [sic] threatened me saying he ‘owns Malibu’ and will spend all of his money to ‘get even’ with me.”

    The report says Gibson then launched into a barrage of anti-Semitic statements: “Fucking Jews… The Jews are responsible for all the wars in the world.” Gibson then asked the deputy, “Are you a Jew?”

    The deputy became alarmed as Gibson’s tirade escalated, and called ahead for a sergeant to meet them when they arrived at the station. When they arrived, a sergeant began videotaping Gibson, who noticed the camera and then said, “What the f*** do you think you’re doing?”

    We’re told Gibson took two blood alcohol tests, which were videotaped, and continued saying how “f****d” he was and how he was going to “f***” Deputy Mee.


    Mel is such a practical joker.

    ReplyDelete
  85. Anonymous9:12 PM

    If Mel was a Democrat or a "Hollywood liberal"
    you would be able to read all about it in our "Liberal Media", right?
    Mel Gibson 'in anti-Semitic rant' after drink drive arrest

    ReplyDelete
  86. Anonymous9:19 PM

    American Reporter: "Americans are growing more worried over China's growing wealth and power. Does China intend to conquer the world?"

    Chinese Official: "Oh, yes. Absolutely. In fact, just as soon as we have the power we are going to invade Iraq and Afghanistan"

    ReplyDelete
  87. Anonymous9:21 PM

    My, my. If this is true, I can't wait for the robust and unanimous condemnations from the right....

    Bwahahahahah!


    Gibson's Anti-Semitic Tirade -- Alleged Cover Up

    Posted Jul 28th 2006 9:15PM by TMZ Staff
    Filed under: Celebrity Justice

    TMZ has learned that Mel Gibson went on a rampage when he was arrested Friday on suspicion of drunk driving, hurling religious epithets. TMZ has also learned that the Los Angeles County Sheriff's department had the initial report doctored to keep the real story under wraps.

    TMZ has four pages of the original report prepared by the arresting officer in the case, L.A. County Sheriff's Deputy James Mee. According to the report, Gibson became agitated after he was stopped on Pacific Coast Highway and told he was to be detained for drunk driving Friday morning in Malibu. The actor began swearing uncontrollably. Gibson repeatedly said, "My life is f****d." Law enforcement sources say the deputy, worried that Gibson might become violent, told the actor that he was supposed to cuff him but would not, as long as Gibson cooperated. As the two stood next to the hood of the patrol car, the deputy asked Gibson to get inside. Deputy Mee then walked over to the passenger door and opened it. The report says Gibson then said, "I'm not going to get in your car," and bolted to his car. The deputy quickly subdued Gibson, cuffed him and put him inside the patrol car.

    TMZ has learned that Deputy Mee audiotaped the entire exchange between himself and Gibson, from the time of the traffic stop to the time Gibson was put in the patrol car, and that the tape fully corroborates the written report.


    Once inside the car, a source directly connected with the case says Gibson began banging himself against the seat. The report says Gibson told the deputy, "You mother f****r. I'm going to f*** you." The report also says "Gibson almost continually [sic] threatened me saying he 'owns Malibu' and will spend all of his money to 'get even' with me."

    The report says Gibson then launched into a barrage of anti-Semitic statements: "F*****g Jews... The Jews are responsible for all the wars in the world." Gibson then asked the deputy, "Are you a Jew?"

    The deputy became alarmed as Gibson's tirade escalated, and called ahead for a sergeant to meet them when they arrived at the station. When they arrived, a sergeant began videotaping Gibson, who noticed the camera and then said, "What the f*** do you think you're doing?"

    A law enforcement source says Gibson then noticed another female sergeant and yelled, "What do you think you're looking at, sugar tits?"

    We're told Gibson took two blood alcohol tests, which were videotaped, and continued saying how "f****d" he was and how he was going to "f***" Deputy Mee.

    Gibson was put in a cell with handcuffs on. He said he needed to urinate, and after a few minutes tried manipulating his hands to unzip his pants. Sources say Deputy Mee thought Gibson was going to urinate on the floor of the booking cell and asked someone to take Gibson to the bathroom.

    After leaving the bathroom, Gibson then demanded to make a phone call. He was taken to a pay phone and, when he didn't get a dial tone, we're told Gibson threw the receiver against the phone. Deputy Mee then warned Gibson that if he damaged the phone he could be charged with felony vandalism. We're told Gibson was then asked, and refused, to sign the necessary paperwork and was thrown in a detox cell.

    Deputy Mee then wrote an eight-page report detailing Gibson's rampage and comments. Sources say the sergeant on duty felt it was too "inflammatory." A lieutenant and captain then got involved and calls were made to Sheriff's headquarters. Sources say Mee was told Gibson's comments would incite a lot of "Jewish hatred," that the situation in Israel was "way too inflammatory." It was mentioned several times that Gibson, who wrote, directed, and produced 2004's "The Passion of the Christ," had incited "anti-Jewish sentiment" and "For a drunk driving arrest, is this really worth all that?"

    We're told Deputy Mee was then ordered to write another report, leaving out the incendiary comments and conduct. Sources say Deputy Mee was told the sanitized report would eventually end up in the media and that he could write a supplemental report that contained the redacted information -- a report that would be locked in the watch commander's safe.

    Initially, a Sheriff's official told TMZ the arrest occurred "without incident." On Friday night, Sheriff's spokesman Steve Whitmore told TMZ: "The L.A. County Sheriff's Department investigation into the arrest of Mr. Gibson on suspicion of driving under the influence will be complete and will contain every factual piece of evidence. Nothing will be sanitized. There was absolutely no favoritism shown to this suspect or any other. When this file is presented to the Los Angeles County District Attorney, it will contain everything. Nothing will be left out."

    On Saturday, Gibson released the following statement:

    "After drinking alcohol on Thursday night, I did a number of things that were very wrong and for which I am ashamed. I drove a car when I should not have, and was stopped by the LA County Sheriffs. The arresting officer was just doing his job and I feel fortunate that I was apprehended before I caused injury to any other person. I acted like a person completely out of control when I was arrested, and said things that I do not believe to be true and which are despicable. I am deeply ashamed of everything I said. Also, I take this opportunity to apologize to the deputies involved for my belligerent behavior. They have always been there for me in my community and indeed probably saved me from myself. I disgraced myself and my family with my behavior and for that I am truly sorry. I have battled with the disease of alcoholism for all of my adult life and profoundly regret my horrific relapse. I apologize for any behavior unbecoming of me in my inebriated state and have already taken necessary steps to ensure my return to health."

    ReplyDelete
  88. Anonymous9:26 PM

    Do any of the bright people - not you, Shooter - have thoughts on who, exactly, benefits from our current middle-east policies (such as they are)? I'm guessing the prime beneficiaries are Israel and every militant group from the Mediterranean to the Himalayas, but YMMV. (Also curious about who came up with said policies, and who else they might be being paid by. Just sayin'.)

    ReplyDelete
  89. Anonymous9:34 PM

    PJ,

    Fourth comment from the top.

    ReplyDelete
  90. Anonymous10:11 PM

    Glenn, I just got it. Clear as day. Our country is imploding...not Leiberman, Coulter, Rove, Bush, the corporations..............it's us. The American culture and it's people are falling and the people mentioned above and all the surrounding "players" are only their representatives...in the truest sense of the word. It is a collective fall..........from the core. Otherwise the media would not be doing what it is doing, and the people en masse would not have allowed it to get this bad/far.

    ReplyDelete
  91. Terrorism

    The Israelis call everyone who shoots back at them a terrorist. Definitions vary, but by my rule of thumb a terrorist is someone who violently attacks non-combatants while they are going about their daily business.

    A man who blows himself up along with most of his fellow passengers on a bus in Haifa is by my definition a terrorist. By the same definition, an F-16 pilot who drops a 2,000 lb. JDAM on a six story apartment building full of women and children in Beirut is also a terrorist, all the braying from the Ministry of Truth to the contrary notwithstanding.

    ReplyDelete
  92. Anonymous10:18 PM

    "On August 8, 2002, Detainee 063 [al-Kahtani] was moved into an 'isolation facility,' where he stayed for the next 160 days, his cell continually flooded with light, his only human contact with interrogators and guards. He was questioned for 18 to 20 hours a day for 48 out of 54 straight days; he was threatened with a menacing dog; he was forced to wear a bra while thong panties were placed upon his head; he was leashed and ordered to perform dog tricks; he was stripped naked in front of women; he was taunted that his sister and mother were whores and that he was gay...

    [At that point, the FBI concluded that he] "evidenc[ed] behavior consistent with extreme psychological trauma (talking to nonexistent people, reporting hearing voices, cowering in a corner of his cell covered with a sheet for hours on end.)"


    How does a society get to this point?

    Calling Off The Hounds

    Andrew Sullivan – Time Magazine Friday, February 2, 2001

    I feel about foxhunting the way I do about smoking. I wouldn't do it myself, but as long as no one's brandishing his lifestyle in my living room, why should I care?... If a bunch of aristocrats want to get dressed up in pink suits and silly hats, surround themselves with packs of beagles and go cavorting around the English countryside blowing horns, trashing hedges and chasing foxes, then who am I to stand in their way?

    ...The official reason is squeamishness about the fate of the foxes [who suffer] the experience of being torn limb from limb by a pack of hounds....


    -Andrew Sullivan

    I have posted that I think Andrew Sullivan is cruel. It was this article of his that led me to conclude that. I don't think an Abu Graib or a Gitmo can happen unless the people behind it are cruel in the way that Andrew Sullivan shows he is in this article.

    The "official reason", he scoffs, and moves on to what he theorizes must be the real reason: class rivalry.

    Andrew Sullivan does that, imo, because he is missing that enzyme that makes a human being able to empathize with the plight of other living creatures---both human and not human, and therefore he cannot understand that not everyone is missing that same enzyme.

    That missing enzyme explains a Cheney and a Rumsfeld and most of the neocon warmongers, imo. It's at the heart of all injustice. Nobody wants to be treated cruelly or unjustly. Why do some people not care if others are treated cruelly or unjustly?

    Which is why I focus on these issues. Not to attack Andrew Sullivan or heap criticism on him but because that one thing always leads to another. The "one thing" is bad enough. The "others" are unimaginable. Resist the beginnings and you won't have to deal with ends that are intolerable.

    The greatest deterrent to war is a reverence for life. If Andrew Sullivan cared about foxes being terrorized by being chased by a pack of hounds and then torn limb to limb as they are devoured, would he have been so quick to support our entry into Iraq?

    I don't think so.

    The thing I like best about Democrats is their voting records on animal issues. There's no comparison between the two parties on that issue. Democratic Presidents may start more wars, but "liberal" voters have always been in the forefront on these types of issues and have always been more anti-war than Republicans.

    The "Right" has no cause to mock pacifists and portray them as weak appeasers. Any sane person should be a pacifist at least to the extent he objects to all wars that are not in clear defense of his nation when it is attacked or about to be attacked by another.

    PS. Re: Gibson. I am not surpised to hear evidence that Gibson is a bigot who hates Jews. This is a man who has glorified torture in the movies he directs himself. That alone should have tipped people off that he is seriously deranged.

    ReplyDelete
  93. P J Evans: who, exactly, benefits from our current middle-east policies (such as they are)

    Excepting the neocon übermenschen, who aren't a who worthy of mention, the correct answer is no one.

    ReplyDelete
  94. Global Warming is THE political issue of our time. Wars come and go. They always have and will. The question we face now is whether we have the capacity as a species to place modernity on sustainable footing. THAT is a much larger and more urgent issue.

    There are SO many fires to put out, figuratively speaking, and so MUCH we have to save---all with equal urgency. To slow global warming, I'm afraid it will become necessary for the citizens ot the United States to have a little "talk with Jesus", regarding what should be done IMMEDIATELY to begin salvaging the situation. And no, I do not mean George Bush's Jesus. George Bush's Jesus tells him to start wars and loot the public till and give to the rich while stealing from the poor and suck all the oil out of the earth (If ONLY he could find some but he is a dry hole himself so he just whores himself out to ExxonMobil), for fun and profit.

    I could go on and on and on but, best to stop here, I guess.

    This mule has gotten away from us, I fear.

    ReplyDelete
  95. Anonymous10:33 PM

    Shooter242:Not all muslims are terrorists, but all the ones in the ME, are.
    How's that work for you?


    How's this for a substantive response:

    "Since no consensus on a working definiton of terrorism for legal reasons, that being the definition that most aptly fits would put Israel and the U.S. and a few other governments in the dock at the world court", maybe you should get your head out of your ass befor you start deciding who is and who isn't a "terrorist", in the ME or elsewhere.

    How's THAT for you?

    ReplyDelete
  96. Anonymous10:47 PM

    The Debacle

    "It is worse than a crime, it is a mistake."
    Charles Maurice de Talleyrand
    Napoleon's Foreign Minister
    ***
    What is clear is that the failure of Israel's blitzkrieg (and at the moment, it looks like a catastrophic failure, at least politically) will have enormous repercussions in the Middle East, just as the downfall of Louis Napoleon had in late 19th century Europe. By betting the ranch on a quick, decisive victory, the Anglo-Israeli alliance has committed both a crime and a mistake. The architects may escape punishment for the former, but I think the latter is going to come back to haunt them, and probably very soon.

    Posted by billmon


    This is what I was saying. How much damage have we as Americans suffered by turning so much of the world against us for what turns out to be another mistake?

    I think this is what Glenn has been getting at in his recent posts. These nut cases who blindly led us into the war with Iraq and who are now writing that Iraq has turned out to be a disaster are the same ones who now want us to attack Iran.

    Why does anyone still listen to them? How many people would go to a doctor for an operation if he had a reputation that all his patients died in surgery?

    I understand more now why Glenn has focused on putting a light on the extreme right blogosphere and their pundits, and contrasting what they are saying now to what they were saying then.

    People who refuse to come to terms with reality are doomed to repeat and magnify their prior mistakes.

    ReplyDelete
  97. Anonymous11:22 PM

    Since some people on this blog spend a lot of time responding to or commenting about bart and shooter. I am going to post below the entirety of an email I just got, because it doesn't come from a web page so I can't post the link.

    I would like to ask what any others who read this interview think about the views expressed in it. I am not sure. Since I think religion is the enemy of reason, I am willing to accept that a lot of it is true. But is MOST of it true?

    This is the kind of thing which I think causes the hard core Bush supporters to think they way they do. I can't speak for bart and shooter because I don't know them, but I do know the friends of mine who don't read blogs but are influenced by these types of emails. Analyzing the mind-set of Bush supporters has to go beyond what can be discovered on the Right Wing blogs and into the minds of the actual people in this country who are not political and don't read blogs. They just vote.

    >The Psychology Behind Suicide Bombings
    >
    > The Psychology Behind Suicide Bombings
    > By Pierre Rehov, French Documentary Filmmaker
    > September 12, 2005
    >
    > On July 15, MSNBC's "Connected" program discussed the 7/7 London
    attacks. One of the guests was Pierre Rehov, a French filmmaker who has
    filmed six documentaries on the intifada by going undercover in the
    Palestinian areas.
    >
    > Pierre's upcoming film, "Suicide Killers," is based on interviews
    that he conducted with the families of suicide bombers and would-be bombers
    in an attempt to find out why they do it. Pierre agreed to a request for a
    Q&A interview here about his work on the new film. Many thanks to Dean
    Draznin and Arlyn Riskind for helping to arrange this special interview.
    >
    > What inspired you to produce "Suicide Killers," your seventh film?
    >
    > I started working with victims of suicide attacks to make a film on
    PTSD (Post Traumatic Stress Disorder) when I became fascinated with the
    personalities of those who had committed those crimes, as they were
    described again and again by their victims. Especially the fact that suicide
    bombers are all smiling one second before they blow themselves up.
    >
    > Why is this film especially important?
    >
    > People don't understand the devastating culture behind this
    unbelievable phenomenon. My film is not politically correct because it
    addresses the real problem-showing the real face of Islam. It points the
    finger against a culture of hatred in which the uneducated are brainwashed
    to a level where their only solution in life becomes to kill themselves and
    kill others in the name of a God whose word, as transmitted by other men,
    has became their
    > only certitude.
    >
    > What insights did you gain from making this film? What do you know
    that other experts do not know?
    >
    > I came to the conclusion that we are facing a neurosis at the level
    of an entire civilization. Most neuroses have in common a dramatic event,
    generally linked to an unacceptable sexual behavior. In this case, we are
    talking of kids living all their lives in pure frustration, with no
    opportunity to experience sex, love, tenderness or even understanding from
    the opposite sex. The separation between men and women in Islam is absolute.
    So is contempt toward women, who are totally dominated by men. This leads to
    a situation of pure anxiety, in which normal behavior is not possible. It is
    no coincidence that suicide killers are mostly young men dominated
    subconsciously by an overwhelming libido that they not only cannot satisfy
    but are afraid of, as if it is the work of the devil. Since Islam describes
    heaven as a place where everything on earth will finally be allowed, and
    promises 72 virgins to those frustrated kids, killing others and killing
    themselves to reach this redemption becomes their only solution.
    >
    > What was it like to interview would-be suicide bombers, their
    families and survivors of suicide bombings?
    >
    > It was a fascinating and a terrifying experience. You are dealing
    with seemingly normal people with very nice manners who have their own
    logic, which to a certain extent can make sense since they are so convinced
    that what they say is true. It is like dealing with pure craziness, like
    interviewing people in an asylum, since what they say, is for them, the
    absolute truth. I hear a mother saying "Thank God, my son is dead." Her son
    had became a shaheed, a martyr, which for her was a greater source of pride
    than if he had became an engineer, a doctor or a winner of the Nobel Prize.
    This system of values works completely backwards since their interpretation
    of Islam worships death much more than life. You are facing people whose
    only dream, only achievement is to fulfill what they believe to be their
    destiny, namely to be a shaheed or the family of a shaheed.
    >
    > They don't see the innocent being killed, they only see the impure
    that they have to destroy.
    >
    > You say suicide bombers experience a moment of absolute power, beyond
    punishment. Is death the ultimate power?
    >
    > Not death as an end, but death as a door open to the after life. They
    are seeking the reward that God has promised them. They work for God, the
    ultimate authority, above all human laws. They therefore experience this
    single delusional second of absolute power, where nothing bad can ever
    happen to them, since they become God's sword.
    >
    > Is there a suicide bomber personality profile? Describe the
    psychopathology.
    >
    > Generally kids between 15 and 25 bearing a lot of complexes,
    generally inferiority complexes. They must have been fed with religion. They
    usually have a lack of developed personality. Usually they are
    impressionable idealists. In the western world they would easily have become
    drug addicts, but not criminals. Interestingly, they are not criminals since
    they don't see good and evil the same way that we do. If they had been
    raised in an Occidental culture, they would have hated violence. But they
    constantly battle against their own death anxiety. The only solution to this
    deep-seated pathology is to be willing to die and be rewarded in the after
    life in Paradise.
    >
    > Are suicide bombers principally motivated by religious conviction?
    >
    > Yes, it is their only conviction. They don't act to gain a territory
    or to find freedom or even dignity. They only follow Allah, the supreme
    judge, and what He tells them to do.
    >
    > Do all Muslims interpret jihad and martyrdom in the same way?
    >
    > All Muslim believers believe that, ultimately, Islam will prevail on
    earth. They believe this is the only true religion and their is no room, in
    their mind, for interpretation. The main difference between moderate Muslims
    and extremists is that moderate Muslims don't think they will see the
    absolute victory of Islam during their life time, therefore they respect
    other beliefs. The extremists believe that the fulfillment of the Prophecy
    of Islam and ruling the entire world as described in the Koran, is for
    today. Each victory of Bin Laden convinces 20 million moderate Muslims to
    become extremists.
    >
    > Describe the culture that manufactures suicide bombers.
    >
    > Oppression, lack of freedom, brain washing, organized poverty,
    placing God in charge of daily life, total separation between men and women,
    forbidding sex, giving women no power whatsoever, and placing men in charge
    of family honor, which is mainly connected to their women's behavior.
    >
    > What socio-economic forces support the perpetuation of suicide
    bombings?
    >
    > Muslim charity is usually a cover for supporting terrorist
    organizations. But one has also to look at countries like Pakistan, Saudi
    Arabia and Iran, which are also supporting the same organizations through
    different networks. The ironic thing in the case of Palestinian suicide
    bombers is that most of the money comes through financial support from the
    Occidental world, donated to a culture that utterly hates and rejects the
    West (mainly symbolized by Israel).
    >
    > Is there a financial support network for the families of the suicide
    bombers? If so, who is paying them and how does that affect the decision?
    >
    > There used to be a financial incentive in the days of Saddam Hussein
    ($25,000 per family) and Yasser Arafat (smaller amounts), but these days are
    gone. It is a mistake to believe that these families would sacrifice their
    children for money. Although, the children themselves who are very attached
    to their families, might find in this financial support another reason to
    become suicide bombers. It is like buying a life insurance policy and then
    committing suicide.
    >
    > Why are so many suicide bombers young men?
    >
    > As discussed above , libido is paramount. Also ego, because this is a
    sure way to become a hero. The shaheeds are the cowboys or the firemen of
    Islam. Shaheed is a positively reinforced value in this culture. And what
    kid has never dreamed of becoming a cowboy or a fireman?
    >
    > What role does the U.N. play in the terrorist equation?
    >
    > The UN is in the hands of Arab countries and third world or
    ex-communists countries. Their hands are tied. The UN has condemned Israel
    more than any other country in the world, including the regime of Castro,
    Idi Amin or Kaddahfi.
    >
    > By behaving this way, the UN leaves a door open by not openly
    condemning terrorist organizations. In addition, through UNRWA, the UN is
    directly tied to terror organizations such as Hamas, representing 65 percent
    of their apparatus in the so-called Palestinian refugee camps. As a support
    to Arab countries, the UN has maintained Palestinians in camps with the hope
    to"return" into Israel for more than 50 years, therefore making it
    impossible to settle those populations, which still live in deplorable
    conditions. Four-hundred million dollars are spent every year, mainly
    financed by U.S. taxes, to support 23,000 employees of UNRWA, many of whom
    belong to terrorist organizations (see Congressman Eric Cantor on this
    subject, and in my film "Hostages of Hatred").
    >
    > You say that a suicide bomber is a 'stupid bomb and a smart bomb'
    simultaneously. Explain what you mean.
    >
    > Unlike an electronic device, a suicide killer has until the last
    second the capacity to change his mind. In reality, he is nothing but a
    platform representing interests which are not his, but he doesn't know it.
    >
    > How can we put an end to the madness of suicide bombings and
    terrorism in general?
    >
    > Stop being politically correct and stop believing that this culture
    is a victim of ours. Radical Islamism today is nothing but a new form of
    Nazism. Nobody was trying to justify or excuse Hitler in the 1930s. We had
    to defeat him in order to make peace one day with the German people.
    >
    > Are these men traveling outside their native areas in large numbers?
    Based on your research, would you predict that we are beginning to see a new
    wave of suicide bombings outside the Middle East?
    >
    > Every successful terror attack is considered a victory by the radical
    Islamists. Everywhere Islam is expands there is regional conflict. Right
    now, their are thousands of candidates for martyrdom lining up in training
    camps in Bosnia, Afghanistan, Pakistan. Inside Europe, hundreds of illegal
    mosques are preparing the next step of brain washing to lost young men who
    cannot find a satisfying identity in the Occidental world. Israel is much
    more prepared for this than the rest of the world will ever be. Yes, there
    will be more suicide killings in Europe and the U.S. Sadly, this is only the
    beginning.
    >
    > Article received from Rob Prevost, Triple Canopy Inc.
    >
    >
    >
    > Return To USAWakeUp.org

    >

    ReplyDelete
  98. PS. Re: Gibson. I am not surpised to hear evidence that Gibson is a bigot who hates Jews. This is a man who has glorified torture in the movies he directs himself. That alone should have tipped people off that he is seriously deranged.

    Mel said:

    "After drinking alcohol on Thursday night, I did a number of things that were very wrong and for which I am ashamed. I drove a car when I should not have, and was stopped by the LA County Sheriffs. The arresting officer was just doing his job and I feel fortunate that I was apprehended before I caused injury to any other person. I acted like a person completely out of control when I was arrested, and said things that I do not believe to be true and which are despicable. I am deeply ashamed of everything I said. Also, I take this opportunity to apologize to the deputies involved for my belligerent behavior. They have always been there for me in my community and indeed probably saved me from myself. I disgraced myself and my family with my behavior and for that I am truly sorry. I have battled with the disease of alcoholism for all of my adult life and profoundly regret my horrific relapse. I apologize for any behavior unbecoming of me in my inebriated state and have already taken necessary steps to ensure my return to health."

    I myself have many a story to tell regarding my own behaviour while under the influence of alcohol. I can even find humor in the stories now. But really, none of them are exactly complimentary.

    I'm sure I have said things in that state that, in a saner moment, would appall me.

    I don't hold this against him (as if what I think matters). His remorse seems sincere and he seems to realize, in a saner moment, just how fortunate he was in the incident.

    Sorry. I just couldn't resist that tangent.

    ReplyDelete
  99. EWO, re the Rehov interview.

    I think Rehov was genuinely shocked at the implacability he discovered, and because it was expressed in religious terms, he's convinced himself that religion is the cause.

    Why? Well, based on his quick jump from the religious fanatacism of a few suicide bombers and their support groups to an apocalyptic vision of world holocaust, I'd say that the reason, in part at least, is racism.

    The bigger part, though, seems to be a profound culture shock. I suspect that, like many Frenchman, he simply can't believe that a culture as fundamentally different from his as this one is can be anything but evil. You see the same choc in French press reports of the banlieue riots. But, but...they are FRENCH. HOW could they do such things, etc., etc.

    Had he met some of the Maquis in his own country in 1944/45, he might have been just as shocked.

    That's my take, anyway, having read your excerpts from the interview, and not having seen the film.

    ReplyDelete
  100. Anonymous11:57 PM

    I don't know anything about this French moron who made this documentary, but I'm sure it's sensationalist and biased crap, mainly because EWO only occasionally has a clue. Wiki has several exhaustive entries on the matter with links. I would suggest this book by Robert Pape. He's an academic who has been studying it for years:

    Dying to Win: The Strategic Logic of Suicide Terrorism

    ReplyDelete
  101. Anonymous12:09 AM

    Ch. 8: Suicide Terrorist Organizations around the Globe
    Robert Pape examines other campaigns to see if the “dynamics that make religious difference important” are present in other terrorist campaigns, acknowledging the difficulty of the inquiry (126-29). He offers detailed analyses of Lebanon (129-39), Sri Lanka (139-54), the Sikhs in Punjab (154-62), and the Kurdish PKK in Turkey (162-66). His conclusion: “Religion plays a role in suicide terrorism, but mainly in the context of national resistance” and not Islam per se but “the dynamics of religious difference” are what matter (166-67).


    So much for Shooter, the neocons and the French guy. Both Shooter and the Neocons are lamer than the French guy.

    ReplyDelete
  102. Anonymous12:14 AM

    Ch. 2: Explaining Suicide Terrorism
    Caveat: the book's conclusions do not hold for terrorism in general (8-9). Pape distinguishes among demonstrative terrorism, which seeks publicity, destructive terrorism, which seeks to exert coercion through the threat of injury and death as well as to mobilize support, and suicide terrorism, which is involves an attacker’s actually killing himself or herself along with others, generally as part of a campaign (9-11). Three historical episodes are introduced for purposes of comparison: the ancient Jewish Zealots (11-12; see also 33-34), the 11th-12th-century Ismaili Assassins (12-13; see also 34-35), and the Japanese kamikazes (13; see also 35-37). There was no suicide terrorism from 1945 to 1980 (13-14). Modern suicide terrorism began in Lebanon in the 1980s (14), followed by cases involving the Tamil Tigers (July 1990), Israel (1994), Persian Gulf (1995), Turkey (1996), Chechnya (2000), Kashmir (2000), and the U.S. (2001) (14-15). Five campaigns were still ongoing in early 2004, when Dying to Win was being written (15-16). Traditional explanations focus on individual motives, but fail to explain the specificity of suicide terrorism (16-17). Economic explanation of this phenomenon yields “poor” results (17-19). Explanation of suicide terrorism as a form of competition between radical groups is dubious (19-20). Pape proposes an alternative explanation of the “causal logic of suicide terrorism”: at the strategic level, suicide terrorism exerts coercive power against democratic states to cease occupation of territory terrorists consider homeland, while at the social level it depends on mass support and at the individual level it is motivated by altruism (20-23). “The bottom line, then, is that suicide terrorism is mainly a response to foreign occupation” (23).

    [edit]
    Part I: The Strategic Logic of Suicide Terrorism
    [edit]
    Ch. 3: A Strategy for Weak Actors
    The willingness of an attacker to die has strategic value (27-29). As a weapon of weak groups incapable of “denial” as a “coercive strategy,” suicide terrorism relies on punishment and, especially, “the expectation of future damage,” which provides coercive leverage (29-33).

    [edit]
    Ch. 4: Targeting Democracies
    Pape claims that his is the first complete analysis of suicide terrorism, as such revealing that not religion but “to compel democracies to withdraw military forces from the terrorists’ national homeland” is its key (38). Patterns of timing (39-41), nationalist goals (42-44), and the targeting of democracies (44-45) reveal its logical, not irrational, nature. “At bottom, suicide terrorism is a strategy for national liberation from foreign military occupation by a democratic state” (45). Foreign occupation is defined in terms of control of territory (not military occupation alone) (46). The targets selected by suicide terrorists suggest nationalist, not religious, aims (46-47). Hamas (47-51) and Al-Qaeda (51-58) are analyzed in some detail. In general, the harshness of occupation does not strongly correlate with suicide terrorism (58-60).

    [edit]
    Ch. 5: Learning Terrorism Pays
    Terrorists are predisposed to attribute success to their technique whenever plausible (62-64). Pape claims that “recent suicide terrorist campaigns . . . are associated with gains for the terrorists’ political causes about half the time” (64-65). Hamas’s success is difficult to evaluate, but Hamas spokespersons express belief in their own success (65-73). Terrorists learn from each other; the spread of the method is therefore neither irrational nor surprising (73-75). But suicide terrorism has failed “to compel target democracies to abandon goals central to national wealth or security” (75-76).

    [edit]
    Part II: The Social Logic of Suicide Terrorism
    [edit]
    Ch. 6: Occupation and Religious Difference
    “[T]he taproot of suicide terrorism is nationalism” not religion (79). It is “an extreme strategy for national liberation” (80). This explains how the local community can be persuaded to re-define acts of suicide and murder as acts of martyrdom on behalf of the community (81-83). Pape proposes a nationalist theory of suicide terrorism, seen from the point of view of terrorists. He analyzes the notions of occupation (83-84), homeland (84-85), identity (85-87), religious difference as a contributor to a sense of “alien” occupation (87-88), foreign occupation reverses the relative importance of religion and language (88-92), and the widespread perception of the method as a “last resort” (92-94). A statistical demonstration leads to the conclusion that a “linear” rather than “self-reinforcing spiral” explanation of suicide terrorism is best (94-100). However, different future developments of the phenomenon of suicide terrorism are very possible, and more study of the role of religion is needed (101).

    [edit]
    Ch. 7: Demystifying al-Qaeda
    With increasing knowledge of al-Qaeda, we see that “the presence of American military forces for combat operations on the homeland territory of the suicide terrorists is stronger than Islamic fundamentalism in predicting whether individuals from that country will become al-Qaeda suicide terrorists” (103). “Al-Qaeda is less a transnational network of like-minded ideologues . . . than a cross-national military alliance of national liberation movements working together against what they see as a common imperial threat” (104). The nature of Salafism, a Sunni form of Islamic fundamentalism, is complex (105-07). Statistical analysis fails to corroborate Salafism-terrorism connection, but it does corroborate a connection to U.S. military policies in the Persian Gulf (107-17). Al-Qaeda propaganda emphasizes the “Crusader” theme, which is inherently related to occupation (117-24). Pape concludes that “the core features of al-Qaeda” are captured by his theory (125).

    ReplyDelete
  103. Anonymous12:19 AM

    major said... Listen to Rush or sean Hannity or many other respected news outlet sources for your news information and you'll HEAR THE TRUTH!!

    ROFLMAO!!!!HAAAAHAAAAHAAAA!!! That's the funniest shit I've heard in a long time! Comic gold!!Thanx major.

    ReplyDelete
  104. EWO:

    One other thing: If you haven't experienced a grievance as profound as the one which drives these suicide bombers, or haven't enough experience or enough empathy to understand what it can do to a person, then you can never understand either the Israelis or the Arabs who've adopted the Palestinian cause.

    That's why I find the profoundly ignorant bloviations about terrorist this or Islamofascist that so tedious. As Brecht says in one of his poems (English translation) "He who laughs has not yet heard the terrible news."

    ReplyDelete
  105. Anonymous3:24 AM

    If perchance anyone has a cache or screen capture of Glenn's comment, please email me. He seems to have deleted it, along with my response.

    Glenn said:
    By contrast, Buchanan, whatever else one might think of him, has been among the most prescient and insightful commentators on Bush administration foreign policy in the Middle East for several years now.

    I responded:

    Have we come full circle, where the hard left and the hard right meet? Or is this just a case of "friend of the enemy is my friend"?

    ReplyDelete
  106. Anonymous4:16 AM

    shoes of peace: your remarks are well taken. Drunk people do and say stupid things, and everyone who has ever been drunk has to cut some slack for others' aberrant drunken behaviour, because they remember their own :)

    My point was different. It wasn't that he acted like a drunken idiot. It's that the charge of hating people of the Jewish faith has plagued him for years. His father has weighed in with some pretty shocking statements, and I don't throw the charge of "anti-semite" around very often, as I am aware it's usually levied at people who are not.

    Tell me if you'd agree with this: although we all have acted like idiots when under the influence (and often when not!), the flavor of what we say is often an exaggerated version of what we truly believe. The saying "in liquor, truth" is usually thought to be accurate, although it can be a very belligerent, silly, or exaggerated version of that "truth." I'm going to guess that perhaps Mel Gibson is one of those people who would never harm a hair on a Jewish person's head, but who has this deep-seated belief that Jews are bad because they killed Jesus Christ.

    But his glorification of torture does indicate to me he is deranged.
    And that's why I said that since he appears deranged, that could be why he may also be a bigot. After all, bigotry is a very irrational way of looking at things and psychologically disturbed people are often irrational.

    I could not even watch Braveheart. For a movie to show the hero being tortured to death at the end, slo-o-o-oly and graphically (my friend told me what was happening as obviously I couldn't watch it myself) is not my idea of entertainment. It neither instructs nor delights, the two tests of art as put forth by Aristotle with whom I agree.

    The Passion Of Christ, from what I read of the reviews, was a non- stop exercise in sadism. I don't think people with healthy minds are as fixated on torture and sadism as Mr. Gibson seems to be.

    With regard to USAWakeup.com, I found that site both shocking and hugely informative as it seems to be a window into a far more insidious type of thinking than is evident on the right wing blogs. I suggest a viewing of the video that plays when the site is opened.

    It's a very spooky site but I can't quite figure out what makes it so extra special spooky.

    Re: the interview. I first (and still partly do) leaned to WT's explanation. But I have a nagging instinct that the interview, as it appeared on that USAwakeup.org site, may be just some type of high grade propaganda.

    WT, what do you think of that site?

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  107. Anonymous4:52 AM

    The targets selected by suicide terrorists suggest nationalist, not religious, aims.

    That does seem more likely although we don't hear much discussion of that because it doesn't play into the GWOT call to arms.

    "Last resort" also seems right.

    It's a tragic topic because one is torn between being sympathetic to people so desperate that they would sacrifice their own lives to keep foreigners from occupying their terrain, but that sympathy is short lived when you focus on how evil a concept it is to kill innocent people.

    If these suicide bombers all detonated themselves only where foreign rulers were to be found, one could at least understand their thinking and attribute it to acts of war by people with no other options. But their ability to completely discount the immorality of killing people even they consider to be innocent is staggering.

    Of course that could be said of a lot of people who are not suicide bombers.

    I'm surprised at Pape's thesis that In general, the harshness of occupation does not strongly correlate with suicide terrorism.

    I would have thought the opposite.

    PS. Shoes of peace: Those types of statements are written by stars' agents and managers as damage control. But the fact that you think it was written by Mel Gibson himself is very sweet. You're the opposite of a cynic :)

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  108. Anonymous5:06 AM

    Why do liberals 'hate America'?

    The Moral Rot of Middle East Intervention

    For more evidence of the perversity and moral degeneracy of U.S. foreign policy, let’s go to nearby Iraq. As the Washington Post has reported, to ensure that the military would round up the insurgents who were attacking U.S. forces U.S. military officials ordered mass round-ups of every man of military age in areas where insurgents were attacking U.S. forces. As one U.S. colonel put it, “With the brigade and battalion commanders, it became a philosophy: ‘Round up all the military-age males, because we don’t know who’s good or bad.’”

    It gets worse. The military also implemented a policy of taking innocent family members of suspected insurgents as hostages with a promise to release them if the suspect turned himself in — a promise that was often violated after the suspect complied.


    Stop here. Hate is a mild term for what I feel when reading things like that.

    Of course, there have also been the torture, sex abuse, rapes, and homicides of countless Iraqis during the occupation, most of which have resulted in either exoneration or light punishment of higher-ups after the standard, superficial, perfunctory military investigations.

    Here at home, decades of Middle East intervention have culminated in an omnipotent president who claims the power to ignore laws enacted by Congress, the power to send the nation into war without a congressional declaration of war, the power to conduct warrantless wiretaps on Americans, the power to arrest and punish Americans and deny them trial by jury and due process of law, the power to kidnap and torture people or send them to foreign regimes for the purpose of torture, and the power to establish torture camps in secret Soviet-era detention centers.

    Decades of intervention in the Middle East have produced nothing but death, maiming, destruction, empire, tyranny, hypocrisy, corruption, and moral rot.


    If "America" is to be equated with its foreign policy, the question might better be "Why doesn't everyone hate America?"

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  109. Anonymous5:17 AM

    More than 65 people dead or wounded after Israeli airstrike on Qana, Lebanon, security official says.

    OK. That's it. This is getting to be a fucking massacre. No wonder the Turks are the only ones wiling to go into Lebanon now.

    I cannot believe the American people are going to sit by and watch this genocide occur.

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  110. Anonymous7:25 AM

    Alear said...
    If perchance anyone has a cache or screen capture of Glenn's comment, please email me. He seems to have deleted it, along with my response.


    E-mail you where, how, moron? Do you honestly think anyone here would if they could?Take the hint.

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  111. Anonymous7:45 AM

    One of the most amazing things about you, EWO, is your amazing inability to think critically. This makes you one of the more clueless commenters on any thread and doesn't bode well for other proponents of "Objectivism" and Randian "reason". When people invoke the phrase "can't see the forest for the trees" they must have you in mind.


    Eyes Wide Open said...
    Why do liberals 'hate America'?

    The Moral Rot of Middle East Intervention


    From that link and the Future of Freedom Foundation:

    Thus, for well over a century, the American people said "No" to such anti-free-market government policies as income taxation, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, welfare, immigration controls, economic regulations, drug laws, gun control, public schooling, and foreign wars. Despite the tragic exception of slavery, the result was the most prosperous, healthy, literate, and compassionate society in history. Unfortunately, in the 20th century, our country has moved in an opposite direction. Operating through the IRS, DEA, ATF, INS, FDA, FTC , and a multitude of other bureaucracies, our government has waged immoral and destructive wars on our freedom, our property, and our well-being.

    If the people who wrote the above are that clueless or dishonest, why would you take anything they say seriously, unless you were a total moron, like this chump...

    Alear said...

    Glenn said:
    By contrast, Buchanan, whatever else one might think of him, has been among the most prescient and insightful commentators on Bush administration foreign policy in the Middle East for several years now.

    I responded:

    Have we come full circle, where the hard left and the hard right meet? Or is this just a case of "friend of the enemy is my friend"?


    Not on your life. We tried that with Osama bin Laden, and it's "The enemy of my enemy is my friend." No. The enemy of your enemy is your enemy's enemy. Your friends are your friends and only a fool make a bargain with the devil, whether he is Pat Buchanan, Paul Craig Roberts or any other wingnut. We don't need you. never have. The country has rejected you and your bullshit repeatedly but you either refuse to see that or you just lie about it. In either case, you just don't know which end is up. You do not live in the reality based community.

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  112. Anonymous7:59 AM

    And if you don't think American industry and business loves regulation, just ask any of the airlines that have gone out of business after deregulation. Pan Am, TWA, Eastern Airlines, Northwest Airlines...It's a long list if you include the chapter 11's and bankruptcies and smaller carriers. The networks love the FCC. They would be lost without them and have no way to compete with HBO and cable. Rightwing morons. They protest the very thing that keeps them in business, regulation and have made a good living conning people that way.

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  113. Anonymous8:35 AM

    Life under Saddam: The pre-occupation version from some paid shill who hadn't lived there since she was a child some 16 years ago:

    Moline woman recounts life under Saddam regime

    UPDATED: 4/22/03 8:16 AM

    MOLINE - As the war with Iraq comes to a close, the rebuilding begins.

    Those who lived under the rule of Saddam Hussein will never forget the man who ruled with an iron fist.

    Ramena Gabriel was born and raised under Saddam's rule. She has witnessed years of torture and looks forward to a new era.

    "I was born in Saddam's regime," says Gabriel.

    She was part of Saddam's new generation, born in Baghdad blocks from the statue toppled during the fall of Baghdad.

    Gabriel left 13 years ago and has never looked back.

    "The things I remember about Saddam's regime," Gabriel explains, "besides always being in fear, was we didn't have any choices."

    Ramena says the Iraqi government would not allow her to chose her career path or school. Instead, she was forced to learn how to fight.

    "I was 15 years old and trained how to use rifles and targets," says Gabriel. "We'd learn to shoot well and get prizes from Saddam."

    "Everyone has to participate in war wanted everyone to be a vicious person--no choice."

    Ramena remembers when government officials invaded their home.

    "We had two huge pictures of Saddam," Gabriel notes. "One government official came over and said, "Do not put Jesus's picture above Saddam’s.’ It had to be on same level or Saddam's above. We had to please him in anyway we can."

    Ramena looks forward to a peaceful future for Iraqis. She says the fear of Saddam will stay will with them long after his death. But the liberation is bittersweet.

    "We are very excited he is gone but also sad to see pictures on TV. People are paying the price. But deep down inside I'm glad he's not there."

    Ramena says she wants to be part of this liberation. She will return to Iraq this summer to help teach Iraqi women how a democracy works.

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  114. Anonymous8:37 AM

    Life Under Saddam one year ago, but not from someone who never left Iraq, not some paid shill with the "memories of a child" like Ayn Rand. I wonder why we don't hear more from the paid shill these days.

    Life Under Saddam

    Many people asked me about life under Saddam. I’m going to talk about my life and my family’s and the ones I know from a neutral point of view. Anyway we had good days and bad days, not only bad days as many of you was thinking. everyone who did not get close to him or his family or his followers in anyway would not be hurt, this is a fact everyone knew. For me and my family we tried to get as far as possible even from his followers. this way we did not get hurt. As for the normal life, we had an almost normal life, we used to go out and stay late as long as we wanted. Security was very good, I can go alone and walk without fear of being kidnapped, Electricity was good, we never had a problem with water, We had few problems with Fuel but it was solved after few days and once the Goverment made coupons in order to solve the problem. Shops and resturant stayed open very late, female students at universities were free to wear what they like as long as it was decent, now many female students started wearing the hijab because they are afraid of being killed or beaten by religious groups. I summarized the positive things and now. Saddam made a big damage to the country that is not easy to be solved soon and it needs many years till things will start to become better. First of all there was a big corruption in all fields of government...


    (He sounds like George Bush, but read it for yourself)

    I don’t know what you will call our life under Saddam, a hell or better than now. For me removing him was a dream to me, I still have hope for the Future, till now things are worse than in the Saddam’s day in many ways, the possibility of being killed now is much more higher than in Saddam’s days. but I still dream for a better future for me and my daughter and family. I voted, yes, I’m happy to do it. but still I don’t know the result of this election whether will be better or worse to Iraq, I gave my voice to a secular party to prevent having a religious one, The future of Iraq is not certain yet, I’m still afraid of having a civil war between us.

    PS thank you all for your encouraging words to me, I received many emails hence I can’t reply to all of them. thank you again.

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  115. Anonymous8:42 AM

    Life in Iraq Today Under the US Occupation: Worse than Saddam.

    Sad but true.

    Diary of Rose Baghdad

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  116. Anonymous9:00 AM

    Ramena says she wants to be part of this liberation. She will return to Iraq this summer to help teach Iraqi women how a democracy works.

    I wonder if she ever made it back to Iraq?

    Maybe. Maybe not.

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  117. I don't usually include substantial quotes from other sources in my comments; fair use restrictions are too much in my mind, having worked as many years as I did in a library, but I couldn't resist this one. It's from WIlliam Gibson's blog entry entitled Hammer, Meet Wasp's Nest, and is typical of his lucid visions of the gestalt we all share.

    The bad news is that the policy-makers of the United States and Israel apparently (still) don't get the new paradigm, and the bad news is that Hezbollah (et al, and by their very nature) do. Though that's only bad (or double-plus-ungood) if you accept, as I do, that the new paradigm allows for a more effective understanding of reality. So if you still like to pause to appreciate the action of phlogiston when you strike a match, you may well be okay with current events. So many, God help us, evidently are.

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  118. I suppose I should also say that in addition to the obvious truth of Gibson's characterization of current events, it has an additional relevance to this thread.

    It is, I think, a perfect rebuttal to the commenters here who struggle so vainly to defend U.S. policy in the Middle East. They seem incapable of realizing it, but their lack of success is due not to insufficient effort on their part, or to our deafness, but to the simple fact that you can't mold reality with a hammer. Although brutal action may alter the outcome of some events, it doesn't often succeed in changing the very nature of reality itself, despite what certain representatives of the Bush Administration are known to believe.

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  119. Or to put it in a form suitable for bumper stickers and Washington Post editorials, a hammer has a mouth, but no eyes.

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  120. Anonymous12:26 PM

    From shooter242 at 12:09pm:

    As a tactic it seems to have the blessing of the global community. Works for me, but as a tactic that seems to be a giant step back to the raiding parties of tribes pre-firearms.

    Witness once more the intellectual and moral bankruptcy of our contrarians.

    Shooter, if your going to argue a point, please just argue it and quit it with the nonsensical commentary. It marks you as one of the "unserious" types who gets the country into messes like Iraq.

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  121. Shooter, check your quiver. You're short a couple of slings and arrows.

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