Thursday, July 20, 2006

Response to right-wing personal attacks

As I've noted several times in the last couple of weeks, my focus on the lawlessness, extremist rhetoric and violence-inciting tactics of the Bush movement and its followers in the blogosphere has triggered a slew of posts on multiple blogs devoted to childish ad hominem attacks, efforts to investigate my personal and professional background, and all sorts of wild accusations of every type, aimed at everything from my bar status to my sexual orientation to where I spend my time.

Numerous blogs have made such posts literally their primary topic for more than a week. Many of the most repeated claims are just factually false, while others are petty and adolescent. But because the principal targets of my arguments -- such as Instapundit and Little Green Footballs -- have taken to promoting virtually every post which contains such attacks, no matter how juvenile or false, they continue to be churned out by attention-seeking bloggers, and the attacks have received relatively wide dissemination.

None of this is unexpected, nor is it unusual. Anyone who enters the political process on any level has to expect such attacks. My posts aren't demure and are often devoted to aggressive criticism and exposure of others, albeit confined to the substantive rather than the personal. But I'm well-aware that engaging in those activities will provoke responses of this sort. And the more circulated and effective the criticism is, the more intense and limitless will be the attacks. That is just how things work, and it's true for everyone. As I wrote a few days ago:

Shining light on the extremist impulses and authoritarian mindset of the pro-Bush movement is, for reasons I've explained here, one of the most important (and effective) weapons against it. . . . And just as anyone who criticizes their ultimate Leader, the Commander-in-Chief, is attacked with full force, so, too, will criticizing their online leaders subject one to all sorts of bitter personal invective, impotent attempts to research one's background, juvenile name-calling -- all of which is promoted and encouraged on an almost daily basis by their wounded leader. [John]Dean's preface is devoted to detailing some of the most amazing personal assaults aimed at him once he spoke out against the new "conservative" movement.

But that is how all bullies and authoritarian movements behave -- by collectively swarming to demonize anyone who criticizes it as the Enemy, a mentally ill liar, etc.
etc.
Ask Richard Clarke, or Joe Wilson, or Howard Dean, or Jack Murtha, or Al Gore, or the anti-war Generals -- or any of the other mentally ill, seditious traitors and liars who have criticized the Commander-in-Chief and who oppose his movement. It is simply par for the course. And the more wounded and threatened they feel from the criticisms, the more intense will be their insults and name-calling tantrums and efforts to attack personally. It is one of the hallmarks of a dying movement that knows it is dying an ignominious death, and it is grounded in great weakness.

Nonetheless, as much as one might like to, I don't believe in the wisdom of ignoring personal attacks, particularly false ones. I know there is a line of thought that counsels that one should ignore these things but I don't ultimately agree with that. Doing so allows those claims to solidify as truth. Readers of this blog are aware that I rarely discuss anything about my background or legal work or anything else personal, simply because I don't think it's interesting or relevant to the issues to which my blog is devoted. The last thing I want to do is address these things by writing about myself, and that is particularly so because the issues they have raised are unbelievably petty, even quite boring.

But since there are those who apparently find it so interesting, and who have spent the better part of the last couple of weeks devoted to making all sorts of false claims about those matters, I am going to respond in as comprehensive a way as possible, in the sure-to-be-futile hope that I don't need to do so again:

My law practice

These are some of the claims I've read repeatedly: Contrary to my claim, I never practiced law at Wachtell, Lipton, Rosen & Katz (the first firm at which I practiced). I was only an intern there. I was fired by that firm before I was admitted to the bar. I encountered ethical problems during my litigation practice. I'm an "unemployed" lawyer with a delinquent law license.

Wachtell, Lipton is known to be the most prestigious and selective law firm in the country. It hires its associates during their second year of law school to be Summer Associates, which is how one becomes a full-time lawyer at the firm. I had an offer from Wachtell, Lipton (along with 15 or so of the top law firms in the country) to be a Summer Associate in my second year of law school at NYU, and I was a Summer Associate at Wachtell the following summer. I then received an offer to be a full-time lawyer upon graduation in 1994, which I accepted. I worked at that firm throughout my third year of law school, and then upon graduating. I continued to work there once I was admitted to the Bar in 1995.

All of the performance reviews I received there of my work were uniformly and enthusiastically positive. At the end of 1995, I left the firm voluntarily to begin my own firm, because I wanted to litigate constitutional issues and cases that I found interesting rather than represent investment banks in securities fraud cases and large corporations in commercial contract disputes. When I advised the firm I was leaving, they attempted to persuade me to stay.

I began my own firm as a sole practitioner at the beginning of 1996 and practiced law for the next ten years in Manhattan at my own firm, which eventually grew to six lawyers and had a nationwide litigation practice specializing in constitutional issues and the other matters which I list in my profile. I was never sanctioned or disciplined by any bar, court, or anyone else. I decided voluntarily to wind down my practice in 2005 because I could, and because, after ten years, I was bored with litigating full-time and wanted to do other things which I thought were more engaging and could make more of an impact, including political writing.

None of this is a secret. Right at the top of my blog, I wrote: "For the past 10 years, I was a litigator in NYC. . . . " I talked extensively on my book tour about why I stopped practicing law in order to engage in political advocacy. The success of my first book has led to a second book contract with a large publishing company and my time is devoted, among other things, to my blog, to the political writing I do outside of the blog, and to the book I am working on. I don't claim to actively practice law now and I never have claimed that since I wound down my practice.

My sexual orientation

I've read repeatedly that I'm a closeted homosexual and even that I sued to keep my sexual orientation a secret. And needless to say, a central part of the ad hominem attacks from pro-Bush bloggers has now become a homophobic concentration on such matters.

I've been openly gay for 20 years. Despite the claims that I have tried to hide this and even sued to keep it a secret, the way the investigative geniuses of the right-wing blogosphere "discovered" that I was gay was that my partner and I commenced a lawsuit in 1996 which, among other things, sought a ruling that the "spousal communication" privilege statute in New York -- which bars compelled disclosure of the marital communications between spouses in litigation -- applied equally to gay spousal couples, on the ground that the plain language of the statute compelled that meaning and, alternatively, that it is unconstitutional to deny gay couples the same right heterosexual couples have to not disclose their marital communications in lawsuits. As a result, there are online judicial decisions from that case detailing that we commenced the litigation based upon claims of equivalency between our spousal relationship and those recognized by law.

I just did my multiple-city book tour with my partner on every stop and there are newspaper stories about the book which reference that. I don't believe the state has the right to use its coercive power to promote heterosexual relationships over homosexual ones, and I've consequently done substantial gay rights work in the past, primarily in law school, and there was ample media coverage of some of that work. I don't write much about gay issues because I don't really have a lot to say that I think is particularly unique -- although I have written about gay issues on my blog several times before -- but the last thing I have done is tried to conceal my sexual orientation.

Having said all of that, I have been surprised -- although I probably shouldn't be -- at how quick and pervasive is the attempt to make all sorts of gay slurs when responding to my posts now that they "discovered" these facts. Despite all the lip service that is paid by Bush supporters to not subscribing to anti-gay bigotry, it is striking how widely acceptable those sorts of attacks are.

Comments left in blogs

A new accusation is that I've been engaging in so-called "sock puppetry" by leaving comments in response to posts that attack me under other names., i.e., that I use multiple names to comment and the same comment was left at several blogs by the same IP address under different names.

Not frequently, I leave comments at blogs which criticize or respond to something I have written. I always, in every single instance, use my own name when doing so. I have never left a single comment at any other blog using any name other than my own, at least not since I began blogging. IP addresses signify the Internet account one uses, not any one individual. Those in the same household have the same IP address. In response to the personal attacks that have been oozing forth these last couple of weeks, others have left comments responding to them and correcting the factual inaccuracies, as have I. In each case when I did, I have used my own name.

Where I live

A recent and now-widespread claim is that I don't live in the United States, but in Brazil. I'm an expatriate. My book should be called "How Would an Expatriate Act"?

Other than a 9 month period after college when I lived in Europe, I've lived in the United States my entire life. My partner is Brazilian and is a citizen of Brazil. Revealingly, American law prevents the recognition of our relationship as a ground for him to live in the United States, while Brazilian law recognizes same-sex relationships for visa and immigration purposes. As a result, for the past year, I have spent substantial time in Brazil while also having a residence in New York. Spending substantial time in another country does not make one an "expatriate." And even those American citizens who do give up American residence and live abroad retain full rights of citizenship, including voting rights. But I have not done so.

Contrary to the celebratory claims that this fact was uncovered as part of some sort of probing investigation, they were able to "discover" this because I openly talked about it. It was part of my blog profile; was published in the front page article in the San Fransisco Chronicle; and is something I talk about with anyone who asks and even with those who do not. As a result of my partner being Brazilian and American law prohibiting our relationship from enabling him to reside in the United States, I spent roughly half my time last year in the United States and half in Brazil, and I can't imagine what meaning anyone could find in that.

* * *

Writing a blog post about myself is pretty much the last thing I want to be doing. But I also know that it is necessary to prevent false accusations from being accepted as true. I'm well-aware that these attacks are triggered by the efficacy of the work I have been doing. If what I were doing were ineffective, it would be ignored, rather than catalyzing unusually obsessive and highly emotional personal attacks of this nature.

516 comments:

  1. Anonymous11:33 AM

    Glenn glad you state the facts but well, they are facts and the people you target are actively hostile to facts so I don't know much good it will do in getting those guys to give up the witchunt and get a life.

    Of course the post was necessary as yet another example of standing up to bullies and proving by illustration the very point that started the who thing.

    ReplyDelete
  2. Anonymous11:38 AM

    I had lots of cheerleading comments to make about how important it is to respond, how this is a great example of a clear and calm response, etc. But instead I'm really angry at the ad hominem homophobia you are forced to indure by these idiots -- on top of the institutional homophobia you are forced to endure by our nation's idiotic policy.

    It's a testament to your patriotism that you don't just pack up and leave. It's sad how those Little Green Footknobs will never understand that.

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  3. Anonymous11:39 AM

    Glenn,

    Love your blog, but defending yourself to this extent is unnecessary and possibly dangerous. We know how much these people like to stalk down their "enemies." Be careful with the info you disclose (I'm sure you know that).

    I hate to sound like a mother talking to her 8-yr old kid, but the best way to stand up to bullies is to simply not respond to their attempts to rile you up. The more you respond, the more they keep digging and attacking you.

    Keep up the good work.

    ReplyDelete
  4. Anonymous11:39 AM

    my partner and I commenced a lawsuit in 1996 which, among other things, sought a ruling that the "spousal communication" privilege statute in New York -- which bars compelled disclosure of the marital communications between spouses in litigation -- applied equally to gay spousal couples

    Hey, I remember that Law and Order episode....

    ReplyDelete
  5. Well said Glenn. If you were not poking your finger in the open, festering sore thats called the Bush Administration and causing pain you would be ignored. Funny how all the cultists are left with is to try and bring down every critic just when they are multipling everywhere.

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  6. Anonymous11:47 AM

    what about the sockpuppetry?

    ReplyDelete
  7. Anonymous11:48 AM

    you know..Wilson, Ellison, Sam Mathews?.

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  8. Anonymous11:50 AM

    While it might be the last thing you want to do Glenn it was nice to get to know a little about the man behind the blog. I have been reading you daily now for a couple of months mainly because of your reasoned level headed writing.

    Like Atticus Finch on the courthouse steps, thanks for standing up.

    ReplyDelete
  9. Anonymous11:51 AM

    I'm sure the I.P. Address thing is overblown.

    ReplyDelete
  10. Anonymous11:52 AM

    Glenn:

    Bravo on setting the facts straight.

    Now, just ignore the fools making the personal attacks and post on the substantive issues which you feel passionately about.

    Sincerely,

    "The hack DUI attorney who never graduated law school."

    ReplyDelete
  11. Glenn- My posts aren't demure

    You got that right, and we love you for it. Keep it up,and don't let the cultists get you down, because we sure do have your back. Logic, reason, truth, and compassion will win out in the end. We just have to keep fighting, and never, ever give up.

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  12. Anonymous11:53 AM

    I'm well-aware that these attacks are triggered by the efficacy of the work I have been doing.

    Exactly, Glenn. Keep up the good work.

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  13. you said "lip service" - snickersnicker!

    lol!

    It's good though, to get the facts set down once and for all - gives you a sort of "central repository for truth" that can be referred to, and even beseiged, though it be unassailable.

    Nice.

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  14. As someone who values their privacy a great deal, I can only feel great sypmathy for you Glenn. At some points it must be tough to deal with all the crap, but I'm sure you take comfort from the decent people around you.

    I appreciate the sentiment, but I knew when my blog began having more visibility, the book started doing well, etc., that all this would happen. Look at every person who has publicly opposed the administration in any way or who writes about its followers and observe how they are smeared.

    These "revelations" are quite petty and irrelevant. It's true that I'd rather not have to write about them, but being attacked in this way is just part of being able to have an impact in public political discussions and I'm hardly the first person to have these sorts of things directed at me. Honestly, I see it as vindication because I know this level of reaction would be provoked only if what I were doing were effective.

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  15. Anonymous11:54 AM

    Glenn,

    I am normally just a lurker but I want to show my support and appreacition from the great work you do and for the important analysis you always gave us.

    The people attacking you are as cluelees as they get: I am just and Italian who comes here with the hope to understand what is going on in the USA but I can clearly see that you are the real patriot not the wingnuts spreading venom about yourself and your work.

    Again great job !

    And you know ... screw them !

    ReplyDelete
  16. Anonymous11:56 AM

    Regarding your response to the sock-puppetry accusations: How many people have access to your account, then?

    Currently bloggers on the right have identified comments from your IP address posted under five different names (Glenn Greenwald, Ellison, Wilson, Sam Mathews and Thomas Ellers). That seems like a whole lot of people on one account, especially for an account owned by a guy whose life is flexible enough that he can split time between two countries.

    Also, how do you explain the fact that many of these commenters make the same arguments to defend you using the exact same words?

    The most charitable answer I can come up with to explain the situation: You have your very own "Townhouse" style email list that is distributed to your friends and family, who, coincidentally, all go online to defend you using your acccount.

    The "reality-based community" is going to have to suspend disbelief a good bit to pretend you haven't done anything shady, Glenn.

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  17. it was nice to get to know a little about the man behind the blog.

    I want to second that, and also this:

    After reading this post I respect you even more as a person and personally hope that everything turns out ok for you and yours.

    xero

    ReplyDelete
  18. Also, how do you explain the fact that many of these commenters make the same arguments to defend you using the exact same words?

    What I said was that I do not write anything on blogs other than under my own name. I don't care if others do, and if someone leaving comments under different names is the golden ring that right-wing bloggers think they've discovered, that is a pretty good reflection of how barren these attacks are.

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  19. Glenn, These agents of disgust who attack you can only look at themselves in the mirror and see the pitiful human that stares back at them. You are a courageous man whose sense of justice and truth and must surely make them cringe with despair.

    If they were as honest with themselves as you are, they'd realize their own nothingness, something they refuse to do and therefore strike out in all directions to destroy and deny all that is beautiful and rare. Your words strike terror into their paltry souls because they see that they are incapable of even the faintest vision of love.

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  20. Anonymous12:04 PM

    "I hate to sound like a mother talking to her 8-yr old kid, but the best way to stand up to bullies is to simply not respond to their attempts to rile you up. The more you respond, the more they keep digging and attacking you."

    Um, that hasn't been this guy's experience. Niether on the playground nor in real life.

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  21. Anonymous12:05 PM

    Way to go Glenn,

    Your honesty is above reproach!

    Truth to power!

    ReplyDelete
  22. Anonymous12:06 PM

    I'm sorry that the state of discourse has forced you to spend time and blog space on what's really neither the Right's business nor ours. But given the relevant information, I can only cite Jane Austen in Pride and Prejudice, discussing a personal attack of another kind:

    "He then went away, and Miss Bingley was left to all the satisfaction of having forced him to say what gave no one any pain but herself."

    ReplyDelete
  23. Anonymous12:07 PM

    (Glenn Greenwald, Ellison, Wilson, Sam Mathews and Thomas Ellers). That seems like a whole lot of people on one account, especially for an account owned by a guy whose life is flexible enough that he can split time between two countries.

    so it's not possible that five people use one computer? this is assuming you trust those making the accusations.

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  24. Anonymous12:07 PM

    Some have suggested you should enter politics. Others have said we don't want "your kind" (read honest and ethical and sharp as razor) in politics, that even the incorruptible can be corrupted there. Glenn Greenwald, first openly gay President (not counting Nixon and Bebe Rebozo, Nixon was definitely closeted). You'll have my vote.

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  25. Anonymous12:08 PM

    Glenn,
    You are so courageous that you make me want to cheer! Did I mention that you were quoted by a US senator? The wingnuts are just jealous of your credentials.

    ReplyDelete
  26. Anonymous12:12 PM

    Glenn (aka Douche),

    What about your fatness? You haven't said anything about how fat you are, and how much more fat than Michael Moore you are.

    Fatty Douche!!

    ReplyDelete
  27. Anonymous12:13 PM

    Yeah, it makes sense that 5 different people have access to GG's I.P. Address -- in Brazil.

    ReplyDelete
  28. Anonymous12:15 PM

    What a crowded home you have!

    ReplyDelete
  29. Anonymous12:15 PM

    Glenn:

    Fuck these people. I mean, FUCK them; you owe them no explanation whatsoever, they attempt to discredit you on a personal basis because as you said, they can't discredit your arguments.

    When you do what you do, you have to grow skin thick enough to stop a bullet - rhetorically, of course, not that you ever want to try. But you cannot let the criticism get to you. A cheery "Fuck off" works equally as well as a lengthy post trying to "set the facts straight." Because the people whom you've angered will continue to spread lies and slander regardless.

    And I'm sure you know that all of this is going to get worse, for as the little green fascists' get backed into the corner, they will only ratchet up their cornered-rat behavior.

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  30. Anonymous12:15 PM

    so it's not possible that five people use one computer? this is assuming you trust those making the accusations.

    Heh.

    Yes, its possible. Is it likely that's what happened here in your opinion?

    Perhaps the reason they all post from the same IP and all recite Mr. Greenwald's VITAE almost verbatim is that they all live in the same house and they all sit around reciting it in unison until they have it memorized word for word.

    Yeah...that must be it.

    ReplyDelete
  31. Anonymous12:17 PM

    The height of irony: An "Anonymous" sleuth trying to catch Greenwald posting under psuedonyms.

    1) Glenn said he doesn't.
    2) Why would he need to?
    3) Even if he did and there some motivation for him to do so (why, in light of this overly revealing post that would be, I leave to intellects like Anonymous'), who cares?

    Greenwald is single-handedly unraveling the rightwing. It's mystifying, but funny as hell to watch.

    Glenn, it's outrageous to have different rights applied to you and your partner -- but I guess if you have to suffer such bigoted indignities, you could do worse than Brazil. At least your partner's not an Iraqi.

    We got your back!

    ReplyDelete
  32. Anonymous12:17 PM

    so it's not possible that five people use one computer?

    Probably more than one computer. The widespread practice of Network Address Translation will result in all of the computers on the network behind the NAT gateway appearing with the same external IP address. So, all the computers on an entire home network, or at an apartment building, business, whatever sharing a NAT'd broadband connection will show up with the same IP. Similar things happen with dial-up connections, proxy servers, etc. The point is, an IP address doesn't even identify a single computer anymore, much less a single person.

    ReplyDelete
  33. Anonymous12:18 PM

    Perhaps the reason they all post from the same IP and all recite Mr. Greenwald's VITAE almost verbatim is that they all live in the same house and they all sit around reciting it in unison until they have it memorized word for word.

    Or perhaps one other person in his house uses different names.

    Or perhaps you want to talk about this stupidest "scandal" ever because you cant talk about what he writes.

    Do you really think the Sock Puppetry Scandal is going to get rid of Glenn Greenwald for you?

    ReplyDelete
  34. Anonymous12:18 PM

    Yeah, it makes sense that 5 different people have access to GG's I.P. Address -- in Brazil.

    what's your point? if i knew his ip i could spoof it and pretend to post as him.

    ReplyDelete
  35. Anonymous12:19 PM

    Well done. If possible, please replace the Free Republic/Media Matters link with the direct Media Matters one. Using the Freeper reprint doesn't advance the point and visiting the site makes me uncomfortable. I would hate to have someone review my computer activity and associate me with the sentiments expressed there. Thank you.

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  36. Glenn-
    I also usually just lurk, but you have been of such benefit these past few months, that I just want to tell you thank you, you've helped keep me sane.
    I'm sorry you had to reply, but now it's over- go kick some more ass and REALLY piss them off!!

    ReplyDelete
  37. Anonymous12:22 PM

    Since the tell-tale IP is clearly a router, Glenn might want to ask one of his friends if they've been over-zealous in defending him.

    Language patterns in the posts look like at least two are from the same person, but none of them read much like GG.

    Call the NSA, they've been keeping records.

    ReplyDelete
  38. Anonymous12:24 PM

    Now we're up to comments from your IP address being posted under six names. Anyone want to make a bet on the over under? I say 8.5.

    How about this: A whole lot of people have access to your acccount, Glenn! Be careful that none of them steals your credit card number or something!

    Sock puppetry (if that is what's going on here) isn't a huge deal, of course, and it doesn't invalidate Glenn's arguments. But it is sneaky and dishonest (though dishonest is a strong word for a relatively minor action).

    And finally, to the anonymous poster who warned Glenn of stalkers from the right: please don't forget that the left blogosphere has a much worse track record when it comes to violence. Remember the Indymedia poster who killed a police officer in Oregon a few years back as part of a "direct action"? (Google it--you should find a long story from the WaPo.) I'm not saying that the left is inherently more violent than the right. The pretension that violence resides primarily on the right, however, is false.

    ReplyDelete
  39. Anonymous12:24 PM

    How many of these comments are from Glenn? I'd say, all of them.

    ReplyDelete
  40. bart: The hack DUI attorney who never graduated law school

    For the record, I've never believed this. As I've said here before, I consider you a worthy opponent.

    Still, a special tip of the hat for showing me to be correct in my judgment, even though in no way was it ever incumbent on you to do so.

    Again,

    Abrazos

    ReplyDelete
  41. Anonymous12:25 PM

    paddykraska said...
    Glenn-
    I also usually just lurk, but you have been of such benefit these past few months, that I just want to tell you thank you, you've helped keep me sane.
    I'm sorry you had to reply, but now it's over- go kick some more ass and REALLY piss them off!!

    12:19 PM


    Ditto for me. Can't say it enough, you're doing a great job!!!!

    ReplyDelete
  42. Anonymous12:28 PM

    Glenn, don't let the fascists drive you from your mission. They are only trying to distact from your message with annoying trivia.

    Your credibility is above reproach with us in the reality based community. None of your critics have a NYTimes bestseller. How many of them were quoted by Russ Feingold?

    ReplyDelete
  43. Anonymous12:28 PM

    I think you are right Glenn.

    I know it must feel as if answering these senseless personal attacks is a waste of energy, but ignoring is not a solution. (ask Kerry about swiftboating)

    I do have to say that I actually appreciate knowing a bit more about your background. The information puts your blog and book in perspective, and why your writing is so powerful. So, even though you posted to dispel specious accusations that are baseless, the post was a benefit to regular readers.

    I think you have firmly established that one should respond to attacks like this. From now on when they are repeated it's just a matter of an easly link to rebut.

    Be well.

    ReplyDelete
  44. Anonymous12:29 PM

    I notice your post is full of straw men, Glenn.

    Example: You say your enemies claim you're an expatriate who has basically moved to Brazil. You self-pityingly knock down that claim they've supposedly made. BUT -

    1) Patterico at least, whose blog I came here from (via link), has made NO such claim.

    2) You go on to admit that you do, in fact, live in Brazil "half the year".

    (3) Patterico documents, by real screenshots and IP addresses, that you have been engaging in a large case of "sock puppets" from a Brazilian IP address.

    Glenn - Knock the self-pity and straw men - Deal with the very real and important charges of your engaging in large-scale sock puppetry.

    ReplyDelete
  45. Anonymous12:30 PM

    (Glenn Greenwald, Ellison, Wilson, Sam Mathews and Thomas Ellers). That seems like a whole lot of people on one account, especially for an account owned by a guy whose life is flexible enough that he can split time between two countries.

    With the way that IP numbers are shared amongst subscribers and, sometimes, the way IP numbers are reported, I wonder why any intelligent person would even question such a thing.

    As someone who usually uses as much as five different IP numbers in any 24 hour period, just in the normal course of business.

    ReplyDelete
  46. Glenn,
    I'm one of many, many, admirers of your work--both on and off blogs. as others have said I'm sorry that you have become a lightning rod for the petty, personal attacks of a right wing crowd that has so little faith in the logic or reason behind their own arguments that they can find nothing else to do but smear you. I guess I'm still stunned by the fact that they literally have nothing left in their arsenal--not logic, not law, not facts, not history, not anything that they can point to *other* than the personal smear.

    Look at this mysterious "anonymous" character who thinks that by accusing you of having, potentially, multiple friends in the bloggosphere who post in your defence on other threads that they are "proving" something.

    Once and for all--though I know it won't be once and for all--if the anonymous coward who doesn't like your actual work has something to say in rebuttal to the actual work--why doesn't he/she or it step forward and make the critique? Lets hear what's wrong with the actual text of any given post? lets hear what's wrong with the details of How Would A Patriot Act?

    In the words of an old joke
    Question: "what do you call a guy who honks his horn when he sees a beautiful woman walking down the street?"
    Answer:
    "Out of Ideas."

    And to spell it out for "anonymous/coward"

    Qestion: what do you call a guy who continually posts unverifiable assertions that someone else is posting unverifiable anonymous posts?

    Answer: Someone who is unarmed in the battle of wits which is blog posting.

    If you, Instapundit, or any of your other friends has anything of substance to say on any political point, why don't you say it? Can it really be the case that there is simply nothing left to say in defence of your failed policies?

    aimai

    ReplyDelete
  47. Anonymous12:34 PM

    Sky-Ho:

    You are a single person, using 5 IP addresses in any 24-hour period.

    Glenn is the precise opposite of that. Glenn is 5 separate (pretend) people, all in the same house, all somehow magically using ONE same IP address in a 24-hour period to post nearly identically worded comments in support of Glenn on various blogs.

    ReplyDelete
  48. Anonymous12:34 PM

    Glenn Greenwald is a courageous patriot of the first order, and those of his critics who think they're Swift-boaters are instead scurrilous cowards who deserve a whipping at best and a total ignorance at least. They're simply Tories who squeal and kneel in front of royal power, and willingly lap up the fetid cream of lies and illusions fed them by the proto-fascists controlling the bulk of our national discourse.

    Keep it up, Glenn. We appreciate your clear reasoning, your stiletto prose, and your immense courage.



    (scur·ri·lous (skûr'É™-lÉ™s, skÅ­r'-) pronunciation
    adj.

    1. Given to the use of vulgar, coarse, or abusive language; foul-mouthed.
    2. Expressed in vulgar, coarse, and abusive language.

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  49. Anonymous12:36 PM

    Nice post.

    Among many of the ad hominem attacks have also been attempts by what I consider to be credible right-wing bloggers to factually discredit you. This post meets them on the facts, and answers their assertions.

    So now, could the right-wing blogosphere engage in debate concerning the substance of Greenwald's political posts and end its fascination with his personal attributes?

    ReplyDelete
  50. Anonymous12:36 PM

    The right looks more like Cartman every day. Heh!

    ReplyDelete
  51. Anonymous said...
    Glenn (aka Douche),

    What about your fatness? You haven't said anything about how fat you are, and how much more fat than Michael Moore you are.

    Fatty Douche!!


    12:12 PM

    Dumbass, if you ever watched C-SPAN, you would know Glenn is slim and good-looking. I was going to ask him to marry me, but oh well, life is full of disappointments.

    :~]Just kidding. Happy lady here, married 25 years.

    ReplyDelete
  52. Anonymous12:37 PM

    While it might be the last thing you want to do Glenn it was nice to get to know a little about the man behind the blog. I have been reading you daily now for a couple of months mainly because of your reasoned level headed writing.


    Ditto, ditto.

    In any case the IP issue is such a non-issue. Have these people never heard of NATs? Multiple computers behind a NAT can "show" the same IP address. Even a simple pool of DHCP-assigned addresses will cycle the same IP address through its requestors. For example, cable internet subscribers...the same IP address you get today will go to someone else also a cox subscriber *shrug*.

    Anyway, this blog is brilliant, and I always take the time to read it. Well done, I certainly appreciate the time & effort you put into it.

    ReplyDelete
  53. Anonymous12:37 PM

    Nice work, Glenn.

    I agree with you that it is important to respond to published personal attacks in the manner that you do--with facts and reason. It is important that Rightist claims and smears be met with facts and reason. (John Kerry seems not to have agreed at one time; he may not now.)

    There is little hope that the Monica Malkins and the Instapundidts will ever acknowledge even your most obvious refutation, but is important that clear refutations be published if for no other reason than to get the contrast between hysterical, ranting abuse and calm, rational discussion into the public domain and from there into the public consciousness.

    As you know most of the rant is directed to the existing Rightist constituency, the Base so-called. Each screed maintains the already-established conditioned response to rage at any and all enemies. (Bill O’Reilly rings the bell, the dog salivates.)

    It probably starts out the way addictions do. Some people like the rush, the little tingle, in hating a little too much. They come back to the stimulus, whether it's on Fox News or something read, for more. With repetition, it becomes a habit, and the habit generates certain behaviors (raging) and maintains the response.

    If uncommitted audience members get hooked on the fleeting ecstasy of hating then the Rightist base expands. Not everyone, though, enjoys hating--and those who do not are not likely to hear your own message if you just spew venom back at the Right.

    One thing that is too-seldom noted about the Rightist rage-&-smear machine is the degree to which it is commercially driven. Rush Limbaugh, Ann Coulter and Bill O'Reilly are actually small, self-sustaining media enterprises. Their invective maintains their audience (and ratings) and sells books and speaking engagements. It will never, ever pay for Ann or Rush to moderate anything they say. I think it is pretty clear, too, that many in the Rightist blogosphere aspire to the level of exposure, influence and income already attained by O'Reilly, Coulter and the others. It is perceived, correctly, that the more extreme the rhetoric, the more attention gained. And attention is convertible into contacts and contracts. I think the Rightist blogosphere can be justly called a kind of minor league of aspiring Rightist media pundits, or the lower tier of the Right-wing star system..

    Anyway, my main point is that it is important to respond with facts and reason, and to be seen responding with facts and reason. The goal ultimately is to help the general public see that Rightist rhetoric is mostly about rage and intimidation—not common sense.

    ReplyDelete
  54. Anonymous12:38 PM

    From anonymous at 12:29pm:

    Glenn - Knock the self-pity and straw men - Deal with the very real and important charges of your engaging in large-scale sock puppetry.

    Says the commentator who won't even choose a vaguely-unique handle to identify themselves with.

    You're fixation with "Patterico" notwithstanding, did Glenn say he was responding to just comments/insults/slurs written here at Unclaimed Territory and nowhere else?

    I take it you didn't actually read any of his post, did you?

    ReplyDelete
  55. Anonymous12:38 PM

    Have Ellison, Wilson, Sam Mathews and Thomas Ellers ever posted comments anywhere that were *not* in defense of Mr. Greenwald?

    Who cares? Have you ever been anything but an obsessive enthralled by the irrelevant?

    Or are these Brazilian roommates only moved to post to remind people of the success of your book?

    Yeah, that would suck to have friends who want you to sell more books. Should be a crime. It's definitely sinister, whatever it is you are insinuating they are doing.

    Mr. Greenwald has done a marvelous job of promoting himself and raising his visibility over the past few weeks. But that appears to have beed the goal.

    More brilliant sleuthing! Greenwald starts a blog, the right wing throws a fit and constantly links to it to tear Glenn down (and fucks up in reverse, making him more powerful and respected), he writes a book that people notice and it sells big -- and now the guy has the temerity to promote it?! Next thing you know, the record will show he might actually profit from writing it too!! Is there no end to Greenwald's sneakniness?

    I know that on the ever-diminishing right, the goal of writing a book is to enjoy a straight delivery to the remainder table while the author hides in his parent's basement until the pr blitz passes -- but your dark hints that there's something unseemly in Glenn's well-earned popularity (among his FRIENDS EVEN!) is hilarious.

    ReplyDelete
  56. Anonymous12:38 PM

    Anon....perhaps has four more friends than you.

    ReplyDelete
  57. I'm going to openly speculate that the right wingers making these sock puppetry claims are just plain lying.

    I don't trust them farther than I can throw their pile-of-rationalizations for the Bush Administration, and falsifying some site logs is pretty simple.

    The alternate explanation of someone else posting as "Glenn Greenwald" is possible too, plus spoofing and all sorts of other internet chicanery open to those with the savy. IP Addresses aren't a great authentication method.

    Besides, the right wing is the one with paid consultants going around posting to sites a la Netvocates and the Rendon group.

    Once again, projection on their part.

    I'm pleased to note that Glenn's Wikipedia entry is free of vandalism from the right, (so far) though I'm sure that will change soon. Observers of Wikipedia will note that edit wars over Juan Cole and Daily Kos are ongoing.

    ReplyDelete
  58. Anonymous12:40 PM

    Anon....perhaps Glenn has four more friends than you.

    ReplyDelete
  59. Anonymous12:40 PM

    Any comment on the fact that while you constantly criticize right-wing bloggers for their rhetoric, you yourself defended a white supremacist against charges of soliciting the murder of a judge? Recall that in so doing, you described your client's violent statements as merely "political advocacy."

    ReplyDelete
  60. Anonymous12:42 PM

    As you have pointed out before, ignoring ann coulter won't make her go away. And if Al Gore or John Kerry had done what you have done today, one of them would be President today. Ignoring lies,however outrageous, makes them seem true to too many people. Thank you for providing your readers with so much truth to combat the lies of the right wing nuts.

    ReplyDelete
  61. Non-responsive answer re the sock puppetry, Glenn. A simple question: Why do Ellison, Sam Mathews, Wilson, Ryan and Thomas Ellers all share your IP address? Either all these people really do share your IP, your partner has adopted all of those pseudonyms, or you're lying.

    ReplyDelete
  62. Anonymous12:43 PM

    "In any case the IP issue is such a non-issue. Have these people never heard of NATs? Multiple computers behind a NAT can "show" the same IP address. Even a simple pool of DHCP-assigned addresses will cycle the same IP address through its requestors."

    OK, let's see how that one holds up.

    Five people... all on the same roughly-local NAT in Brazil... all rising vigrously to Glenn's defense... in identical language and good English... making identical points...

    Yup. That's plausible!

    By the way - Did you know that the Rather-Mapes documents of 2004 are real?

    I mean, they never caught any alleged forgers, right? And the burden is on "right-wing bloggers" to prove they were forged, rather than being on Rather-Mapes to prove they were real, right?

    Same with O.J. Simpson. He's still "looking for the real killers", right? That means he didn't do it.

    And may I interest you in some lettuce mines in Florida, that I happen to own? LOL

    ReplyDelete
  63. Anonymous12:47 PM

    Glenn,

    As a long time reader and fan of your site, I am sorry to hear about these attacks.

    I am not surprised that many of those people would turn to personal attacks. THey obviously cannot argue about the substance.

    Hang in there and keep up the good work!

    ReplyDelete
  64. In Re the IP addresses of numerous commenters. From the relevant IP address records (c9252b75.rjo.virtua.com.br [201.37.43.117] ) it is clear that this is a Brazillian ISP that sells a primarily consumer service, the address is probably in Rio de janeiro (the rjo), and likely to be a cable modem (virtua.com.br is owned by globacom which seems to be a Brazilian cable TV company).

    Obviously you are an honourable gentleman so therefore we believe you when you write that you share your IP address with other people.

    However, let us be hypothetical for a moment. If, say, you discovered that xlrq was writing comments from the same ip address as patterico would you not be a trifle suspicious?

    It is true that IP addresses are frequently shared, and we know little about your domestic relationships, but it seems unusual for four or five different people at the same IP address to have such similar writing styles but different names and to be so keen to defend one of their number.

    ReplyDelete
  65. Hahahahaha Busted you sock puppeteer. LOL. Too funny. Maybe you could respond to yourself here and teel yourself how much you support you. IP's don't lie dipstick.

    ReplyDelete
  66. Anonymous12:50 PM

    Glenn,

    Why not just admit to the sockpuppetry and chalk it up to a bit of self-promotion?

    The IP DNA is all over your blue dress, so your position will only perpetuate this issue and transform all denials of obvious multiple identities into the new blog verb of “Greenwalding”.

    By using this lame attempt at spin, you are making your supporters debase themselves into proclaiming they “believe” the far-fetched explanations. What does this have to say about the intellectual honesty of your readers or their capacity to process facts and come to logical conclusions?

    Show some backbone and come clean.

    ReplyDelete
  67. Anonymous12:51 PM

    You piss em off because you are effective. Keep it up.

    ReplyDelete
  68. Anonymous12:53 PM

    Good post, Glenn.

    The ball is in the right-wing blogopshere court to explain why ANY of this is relevant.

    Ten bucks says they can't respond with substance.

    Note to the rightwing amateur punditry: calling someone a "douchebag" or similar ad hominems says more about you than it does your target. It demonstrates that you can't compete intellectually outside of the school playground.

    ReplyDelete
  69. dirty dingus,

    it depends on the setup of the ISP. Most broadboand IP addresses are "leased" to the user. The word is what is used but it does not convey the meaning properly. In essence, the IP is locked to a particular computer or LAN. Very few ISPs use a dynamically assigned broadband address.

    But, what you have to remember in this case is that all of the posters who are using this particular IP address have said basically the same thing. The words from their posts are almost identical. It goes beyond coincidence that multiple people who "might" have the same IP address would be saying almost the exact same words from Brazil. C'mon - this isn't coincidence. It is sock puppetry.

    ReplyDelete
  70. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

    ReplyDelete
  71. Non-responsive answer re the sock puppetry, Glenn. A simple question: Why do Ellison, Sam Mathews, Wilson, Ryan and Thomas Ellers all share your IP address? Either all these people really do share your IP, your partner has adopted all of those pseudonyms, or you're lying.

    12:43 PM


    False dichotomy. I just explained there are many more options here:

    1) Glenn is using sock puppetry (he denies and we have no record of Glenn lying about anything or even refusing to prominently correct errors he makes in blog postings)

    2) Someone else posts as Glenn and uses sock puppetry (plausible)

    3) People spoof IP addresses to be identical to Glenn's so he'll be accused of puppetry (plausible, more difficult)

    4) Right wing blog owners making this accusation are lying and have falsified their access logs (motive + opportunity + past track record = very believable)

    5) Glenn's service provider in Brazil uses some type of shared IP for many different customers (unlikely so many Brazillians are participating on Right wing blogs)

    4,2 and 3 are my favourites in that order. However you don't have to favour any of them to realize your argument is pure bullshit intended to back Glenn into some metaphoric corner.

    ReplyDelete
  72. ewwwww....here goes the swearing. Confronted by facts the left has to swear at posters. Wow. such educated people.

    ReplyDelete
  73. Anonymous12:56 PM

    You retards are ignoring what GG himself has told you about the only important charge being made against him. He's told you himself the IP address is his and that others might comment from that address. Read it yourself.

    Nobody cares if GG is gay or if he lives in Brazil or if he left this top firm under a cloud. The claim is that he's engaging in sockpuppetry. He's denied it but appears to imply his roommates are logging in under his IP defending him.

    Thing is, there's nothing wrong with that even if it is a little pathetic. So why does he merely imply it? Why not just say, "My lover gets his ass up when he sees me being run down by morons so he sets the record straight?"

    You make yourselves look like fools when you make up silly-ass excuses for sharing an IP.

    spongeworthy

    ReplyDelete
  74. Anonymous12:57 PM

    It's also legal ethics 101. Representing your client to the best of your abilities.

    The principle of free speech is important and the prosecution of it -- even for speech you find repellent -- is worth arguing against.

    Willfully ignoring the difference between the legal world in court and the ethical world online (while ALSO ignoring Greenwald's stated position regarding the legality of hate speech, versus the ethical demand for the public loudly to loudly oppose it) is a neat trick. But a well-worn one.

    What's your take on the First Amendment Northern? Only like it when it suits your purposes, or do you know what it is in the first place?

    ReplyDelete
  75. Anonymous12:58 PM

    From karol at 12:49pm:

    You're a joke, dude.

    If that's case, please share the punch line.

    ReplyDelete
  76. Anonymous12:58 PM

    Specter said...
    ewwwww....here goes the swearing. Confronted by facts the left has to swear at posters. Wow. such educated people.


    The irony is, that ain't no shit neither, Shitlock!

    ReplyDelete
  77. see what I mean? Can't answer the facts so just swear. Highly educated posters you have here Glenn. Aren't you proud of them? Pretty soon Larry Johnson will join them.

    ReplyDelete
  78. Anonymous1:00 PM

    To those arguing that the sock puppetry accusations are a result of randomly assigned IP addresses: What's going on, then, would have to be the result of a series of amazing coincidences. Out of probably thousands of IP addresses, the same one has repeatedly and randomly been assigned to Glenn and then to a person or persons who defend Glenn using the same arguments and the same words.

    Again, this isn't a huge deal, but to pretend like there couldn't possible be anything to this is foolish. I know many on the left like to think of themselves as the pure ones fighting against evil conservatives, but it's ridiculous to tell yourselves that being liberal makes it impossible to suffer from foibles such as vanity or faults such as pride.

    And to Michael, who asks that anonymous posters actually contest Glenn's arguments: I don't read Greenwald much. The only argument I'm familiar with is the Bush Cultist meme that put him on the map, to which I reply: Harriet Miers, Dubai ports, steel tarriffs, UM affirmative action, immigration enforcement...All cases of conservatives disagreeing with Bush. In addition: William F. Buckly and George Will, two highly respected conservatives, have criticized Bush on major issues, and they're still in the club, so to speak.

    ReplyDelete
  79. anon@12:37pm: Have these people never heard of NATs?

    This is very funny. All these people hear are gnats--the ones that swarm around their shit for brains.

    ReplyDelete
  80. Karol:
    You're a joke, dude. It's got nothing to do with you being gay or a lawyer, it's just that you're a douchebag.

    So glad you could take time away from being an obsessive-compulsive gambler to show us your expertise on Glenn.

    I can see why gamblers might like the Republicans: If you're one of the very few who benefits from their policies (Defence contractors, the pharmacetical industry) you benefit a lot, but for the rest - losers. Voting Republican is like playing the lottery.

    ReplyDelete
  81. Glenn-
    It's been great to watch your prominence grow and I applaud you for responding forcefully but not angrily when they attack the messenger rather than the message, which is typically irrefutable. I also appreciate this post as it might stave off some future attacks. But reading it and the links makes me a little sick and sorry for you to have to go through his and to defend your patriotism. They attack you personally because they can't attack your message. They attack you professionally to stop your rapidly spreading message. But they're failing on both counts. Like Karl's swift boat campaign which sought to attack the opponent not on his weaknesses but on your client's, they attack your patriotism because it shows and reveals their brand of it to be self-serving, unconstitutional and illegal. Keep it up. They attack because your arrows are on the mark.

    ReplyDelete
  82. Anonymous1:01 PM

    So, here's what you do. You pretend you didn't write the comments which, clearly, you did. Then, a couple of days from now, you offer proof that you didn't write them: your partner cops to it. Now, he never did it, because he doesn't give a damn about any of this garbage. But he knows where his bread is buttered, so he'll play along. Then you can call Paterico and whoever else LIARS!!! at the top of your lungs.

    It's boring when the plot twists aren't any more clever than this.

    ReplyDelete
  83. So why does Glenn have to answer for himself under his own name if he is so ethical? How many room-mates does he have - like 12?

    ReplyDelete
  84. Anonymous1:03 PM

    Lets see, a New York Times bestselling book on executive authority. Breaks a story on his blog about wiretapping that leads to front-page stories on most major newspapers in the country. Russ Feingold reads from his blog during the Censure hearings.

    Maybe that has something to do with why. Any conservative bloggers with credentials like that? All compiled in 9 months or however long its been since he started blogging?

    ReplyDelete
  85. Glenn,
    The attack machine seems to ratchet up in direct correlation to how much they fear what you have to say (ask John Kerry, Richard Clarke, Joe Wilson). Given that, I hope you aren't spending so much time responding to the personal attacks so as to distract you from the actual *work* you came to do. Your efforts to expose the anti-american nature of the secretive/authoritarian Cheney/Bush regime are important. Please keep it up.

    ReplyDelete
  86. Anonymous1:04 PM

    Lets see, a New York Times bestselling book on executive authority. Breaks a story on his blog about wiretapping that leads to front-page stories on most major newspapers in the country. Russ Feingold reads from his blog during the Censure hearings.

    Maybe that has something to do with why. Any conservative bloggers with credentials like that? All compiled in 9 months or however long its been since he started blogging?

    ReplyDelete
  87. Anonymous1:04 PM

    "The claim is that he's engaging in sockpuppetry. He's denied it but appears to imply his roommates are logging in under his IP defending him."

    OK, let's try that one on.

    Glenn Greenwald and his partner, whenever spending their half of the year in Brazil, are so poor - and/or so generous - that they live in one house with at least 4 (possibly more) additional roommates.

    And those roommates all just HAPPEN to be highly educated Northerners (or possibly Europeans) in Brazil with names like "Thomas Ellers", "Sam Mathews", "Wilson", "Ryan", and so on, who post identical points about Glenn's resume and goodness in near-identical language.

    Yup. THAT's plausible.

    Earlier I mentioned some lettuce mines I could sell... I can also offer stock in the Brooklyn Bridge, if anyone would like.

    ReplyDelete
  88. Anonymous1:06 PM

    Lets see, a New York Times bestselling book on executive authority. Breaks a story on his blog about wiretapping that leads to front-page stories on most major newspapers in the country. Russ Feingold reads from his blog during the Censure hearings.

    Maybe that has something to do with why. Any conservative bloggers with credentials like that? All compiled in 9 months or however long its been since he started blogging?

    ReplyDelete
  89. Occam's Razor applies....

    ReplyDelete
  90. Anonymous1:06 PM

    You make yourselves look like fools when you make up silly-ass excuses for sharing an IP.

    When exactly did sharing an IP become something requiring an excuse?

    ReplyDelete
  91. Anonymous1:08 PM

    Thing is, there's nothing wrong with that even if it is a little pathetic.

    Yeah, having your friends defend you against assinine attacks is really sad. Friends are such a burden.

    dan,

    Don't go too far down the road. Use Occam's Razor. They probably do come from the same computer and the same source (even if he or she uses several pseudonyms -- what this means in an online world of psuedonyms is beyond me) -- but it doesn't mean Glenn posts them.

    Moreover, it's telling that in the sad friendless world the right-wing blogosphere inhabits, they can't conceive of a friend defending them from attacks. They, instead, think its a scandal.

    ReplyDelete
  92. Anonymous1:08 PM

    Anonymous...And finally, to the anonymous poster who warned Glenn of stalkers from the right: please don't forget that the left blogosphere has a much worse track record when it comes to violence. Remember the Indymedia poster who killed a police officer in Oregon a few years back as part of a "direct action"? (Google it--you should find a long story from the WaPo.) I'm not saying that the left is inherently more violent than the right. The pretension that violence resides primarily on the right, however, is false.

    You are a self-deluded idiot.


    Let us know when one of your right wing radio personalities gets gunned down. What I will put on their grave won't pass for flowers. OK...C?

    ReplyDelete
  93. Anonymous1:08 PM

    "When exactly did sharing an IP become something requiring an excuse?"

    When Glenn Greenwald started using it to perpetrate a massive and disgraceful fraud - posing as at least 5 (maybe more) "independent" people.

    ReplyDelete
  94. You gotta love the posters who keep repeating the exact same post over and over. LOL. Such brilliance. I guess it shows that theme -"If I repeat it enough it will be true."

    Gee...the only ones I have read that have been caught sock puppeting in the last few months were - imaging that - left wing bloggers. Wonder why.....

    ReplyDelete
  95. Anonymous1:11 PM

    The Rove strategy is "Attack people on their strengths." Therefore, Kerry and Murtha are cowards, not war heroes.

    The attack on Glenn is that he has no credibility (using the sock puppet allegation to push that theme). Therefore, the thing these nutjobs have realized is that, in fact, Glenn has great credibility. It is his strength and the Book of Rove says that's where you attack.

    Simple, really.

    ReplyDelete
  96. Anonymous1:12 PM

    As usual, the right has nothing but people who're willing to say what they're told to say. It's amazing they can even get online, some of these idiots.
    .

    ReplyDelete
  97. Deal with the very real and important charges of your engaging in large-scale sock puppetry.

    "Very real"? "Important"?

    "Large-scale"?

    Please. This complaint is utterly pathetic, even if it had some a basis in fact. It should have been embarrassing to write it.

    Get a sense of proportion. We have a President in the White House who routinely breaks the law and authorizes violations of the Bill of Rights on a massive scale, and a Congress that lets him do it.

    What Glenn stands for is the integrity of the Constitution, and the actions that come from that defend and protect America in a fundamental way.

    The sock puppetry accusation is also preposterous - why on earth would he want to or need to? He has a perfectly good platform, he has no need to pretend to be anyone to get his point across.

    What a load of distracting nonsense.

    ReplyDelete
  98. Anonymous1:13 PM

    To the anonymous pushing this nonsense about sock-puppets and IP addresses -

    Name yourself. I don't care if its a handle or what, but either quit hiding or quit taking up space here.

    ReplyDelete
  99. Anonymous1:14 PM

    Gee...the only ones I have read that have been caught sock puppeting in the last few months were - imaging that - left wing bloggers. Wonder why.....

    Because that's what you were fed by rightwing bloggers and you were stupid enough to believe it?

    There, that was easy.
    .

    ReplyDelete
  100. Speaking of "plausible" - Glenn is a blogger, and he's supposed to be so ignorant of the internet that he doesn't realize his IP address is logged when he visits a site and posts there?

    Or that the RWNM is looking for a reason to attack him?

    No, the logs are just a plain out falsehood. Easily done and impossible to verify since only the site administrator has unfettered access to the logs - electronic records are unverifiable.

    It really sucks that Glenn, by having the guts to go over to these right wing sites and defend himself in person (something none of the right wingers ever do here so far as I have seen) - he opens himself up to eregreigous falsehoods like this.

    ReplyDelete
  101. Oh...Glenn credibility....well first off, whatever. This whole issue is about sock puppetry and the lack of credible explanation of why he feels compelled to do such a thing. Maybe it's the voices...who knows? Multiple personalities? Hmmmmm....

    But to credibility? Let's see...he defended the posts of Frisch. How's that for credibility?

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  102. Anonymous1:15 PM

    I wrote that with the full-expectation that this 'anonymous' won't name themselves in some way, btw.

    Courage like that is something clearly in short supply with their ilk.

    ReplyDelete
  103. Anonymous1:15 PM

    Note to John Kerry. Do you see how easy that was?

    ReplyDelete
  104. Anonymous1:15 PM

    how, exactly, is it 'massive' and 'disgraceful'?

    Because the right needs it to be "massive and disgraceful" because they have nothing intelligent to say.
    .

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  105. Anonymous1:16 PM

    The claim that different names from the same IP address means the same computer was used for all is just silly when you consider all the NAT routers in use today. Apparently NAT - which allows multiples computers to share the same IP address - is even more common in other countries. Glenn has not denied that someone else may be using different names to post comments supporting him. He has simply denied doing so himself. The fact that the wingnuts are going apeshit and grasping at such straws is more clear evidence that their heads are about to explode. Whatever you do, don't yodel in their presence!

    ReplyDelete
  106. Karol said...
    You're a joke, dude. It's got nothing to do with you being gay or a lawyer, it's just that you're a douchebag.


    Oh Lord honey, you shouldn't post your picture when writing things like that. It would be too easy to get really nasty.

    ReplyDelete
  107. Anonymous1:17 PM

    A minor point of confusion, raised by a friendly reader:

    You state that you were fired by Wachtell, Lipton, &c. before your admission to the bar, and then a bit later you state that you left the firm of your own accord and that they attempted to persuade you to stay.

    Not raising it to be a pain in the ass, but just that if you're already feeling the need to lay all this stuff out like this then having an apparent inconsistency in it probably isn't going to help any.

    -- Aaron

    ReplyDelete
  108. Anonymous1:18 PM

    how, exactly, is it 'massive' and 'disgraceful'?

    Because the right needs it to be "massive and disgraceful" because they have nothing intelligent to say.
    .

    ReplyDelete
  109. Anonymous1:18 PM

    oooh, Nog, his IP matches up with his defenders. Mine doesn't match with his and, frankly, who the hell cares? Even if there are 100 or 1,000 posts from the same IP address, does that make it untrue that the rightwing blogosphere is increasingly violent in its commentary? Does that suddenly make the President above the law, contrary to the central argument in Glenn's book? I mean how does it undermine the points made on this blog about the criminal, treasonous activities of the current administration and the utter stupidity of people such as yourself, who so badly want to be told what to think and how to express it that you're willing to give up your intellectual freedom and your personal freedom so that your daddy government can protect you. How very American of you.

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  110. Anonymous1:20 PM

    The denial strategy is to reference other people and ignore the fact that Glenn's IP matches up with his defenders.

    As opposed to the ignorance strategy, in which this flimsy charge has already been addressed and dismissed several times on both the post and the thread, but the charge continues to be made anyway.

    It's their only line!
    .

    ReplyDelete
  111. Anonymous1:20 PM

    When exactly did sharing an IP become something requiring an excuse?

    That's the point, isn't it? So read the comments and justify the sheer number and the tenuous nature of some of the suggestions for why that address keeps turning up. Rather than accept what your host is--for some strange reason, merely--implying, wrestle the facts into some implausible excuse to look away from the facts.

    The Bush cultists have nothing on you folks. You can ignore facts and bluster dishonestly with the best of them.

    spongeworthy

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  112. Anonymous1:20 PM

    It is like saying, "Glenn Greenwald jaywalks! Ha! Advantage right-wing blogosphere!"

    If Greenwald was using sockpuppets to defend his own posts it goes to his intellectual credibility. Sorry, but it would be completely embarassing for him if this turns out to be true.

    It's like the Mary Rosh episode.

    ReplyDelete
  113. Anonymous1:21 PM

    From the nog at 1:18pm:

    Every time you call this a falsehood, it makes you look ridiculous. Because...the IPs match up.

    Which, as several other commentators here have explained, means nothing.

    No wonder you guys can't win an election.

    What, you mean Al Gore didn't win the popular vote in 2000?

    ReplyDelete
  114. These are the same people who still believe the Bush Administration was honest in its motives to go to war in Iraq, despite the Downing Street Memos.

    Yet a right wing blog owner posts some purported IP logs and immediately it must be true and no independent verification is required nor can any other possibilities be considered.

    Hooray for integrity!

    ReplyDelete
  115. Anonymous1:21 PM

    For those who don't think its important to get the facts out early when attacked see the thread above.

    When facts are presented early to the wingnuts, all they'll have left to fall back on is name calling:

    - he's a sock puppet
    - no, he's a douche bag
    - no, he's a self promoter
    - no, he's a self promoting, douche bag, sock puppet


    Once again Glenn, continue the good work and you're doing a great job!!!

    ReplyDelete
  116. grand moff,

    name a right wing blogger caught sock-puppeting. Just one.

    Dan,

    And oh guru - how do you change logs? More Grand Right Wing Conspiracy I see.

    BTW - it is possible to spoof an IP, but you have to know an awful lot about your particular operating system. You can mask an IP using a proxy, but I bet Glenn's router is not set up as a pass through proxy...so much for all your conspiracy theories.

    When someone has to pose as another person to puff up their own credentials they lose credibility. And that's the problem.

    Listen - I read Glenn once and a while, and I do not often agree with him. But, there is no logical explanation for this issue that has been posed by any of you. I wonder why that is...Oh I know....Glenn has like 5 or six room mates and they all use the same wording to defend him. LOL

    ReplyDelete
  117. Anonymous1:22 PM

    Progressives deserve better. We need honest people making our case ...

    Bzzzt! Concern troll!

    Ignorance makes the rightards easy to spot.
    .

    ReplyDelete
  118. Anonymous1:23 PM

    "This is very funny. All these people hear are gnats--the ones that swarm around their shit for brains."

    Does your library have a dictionary? If it does, go look up h-e-r-e versus h-e-a-r.

    ReplyDelete
  119. Anonymous1:23 PM

    When Glenn Greenwald started using it to perpetrate a massive and disgraceful fraud - posing as at least 5 (maybe more) "independent" people.

    So Glenn was using a shared IP to perpetuate a massive and disgraceful fraud, and you know this because that shared IP implies that it could only be Glenn who made those posts under different names.

    Wow, that is ...uh... brilliant reasoning. And the further implication of your brilliance is that using a shared IP now requires excuse. Have you informed the millions of shared IP users of your new requirement?

    ReplyDelete
  120. Anonymous1:24 PM

    "I wrote that with the full-expectation that this 'anonymous' won't name themselves in some way, btw."

    Let me get this straight.

    If the "anonymous" you're targeting had typed in a made-up name that actually revealed nothing about him... just like, say, oh, "yankeependragon"... instead of being a temporary visitor who relied on the logic of his points and didn't think he should bother...

    THEN you'd assign him some credibility?

    ROFL :-) You guys are too much.

    ReplyDelete
  121. Anonymous1:25 PM

    It's also legal ethics 101. Representing your client to the best of your abilities. . . . Willfully ignoring the difference between the legal world in court and the ethical world online (while ALSO ignoring Greenwald's stated position regarding the legality of hate speech, versus the ethical demand for the public loudly to loudly oppose it) is a neat trick. But a well-worn one.
    What's your take on the First Amendment Northern? Only like it when it suits your purposes, or do you know what it is in the first place?


    Con Law 101, dude: The First Amendment does not protect soliciting someone's murder. Not in the least little bit.

    Yes, Greenwald was required to represent his client to the best of his ability -- which in that case, may have required him to suggest that literally soliciting the murder of a federal judge was merely "political advocacy."

    But you forget something: No one forced Greenwald to take on a white supremacist would-be murderer as a client in the first place. If overheated rhetoric is really as contemptible to Greenwald as he now likes to pretend, he never had to take on such a client. Why would he go out of his way to take a client who was, in every possible way, worse than any of the right-wing bloggers who are now Greenwald's mortal enemies? It would be interesting to hear Greenwald explain this disparity.

    ReplyDelete
  122. What a bunch of fools, attacking you personally, Glenn. Not that it will make a lick of difference in the end, but it sure is funny to watch them spend time agonizing over the effects of your writing rather than actually defending the record of their party.

    Keep it up

    ReplyDelete
  123. Anonymous1:27 PM

    grand moff,

    name a right wing blogger caught sock-puppeting. Just one.


    And then he runs away from the point. Nice.
    .

    ReplyDelete
  124. "Response to right-wing personal attacks" elicits more right-wing personal attacks.

    Why am I not surprised?

    ReplyDelete
  125. Anonymous1:28 PM

    The sad thing is there isn't an organized conspiracy to do this kind of thing (trash Glenn). They all come up with the idea by themselves. In acting upon it, of course, they seek the script from their leaders. It's just like the rightwing talk hosts. Individually, they all decide who to attack and then once the decision is made they read the attack from that day's RNC fax. In other words, they operate in a world where they've actually convinced themselves that they have free will but recognize that they are too imbecilic to express themselves without the guidance of those in authority (and, by so doing, they are assured that they have the approval of those in authority). It's the saddest thing in the world to see people who are so afraid of everything around them that they practically beg to be told what to do. It's not an organized conspiracy. It's a sgn of just how many weak-minded intellectually vacant terrified little people exist in the world. It's called the Republican Party.

    ReplyDelete
  126. Anonymous1:28 PM

    This is literally insane.

    Glenn said -- and has amply proven time and again -- he's only made posts under his own name, on his blog and in other's comment sections.

    He got exposed. Accept it.

    Exposed of what?

    owenz has the best response:

    Glenn explained the IP address situation. It's really not very complicated:

    - Glenn posts as himself every time he leaves a comment on any blog.

    - An individual who shares Glenn's home, on occasion, uses more than one handle when leaving comments.

    They live together and have the same IP address. If you are still outraged after understanding the situation, well, good for you. You've uncovered a truly stunning controversy.


    Only the right wing would be confused by this and think it's a Got Him!!111!! moment.

    ReplyDelete
  127. Anonymous1:29 PM

    From anonymous at 1:24pm:

    If the "anonymous" you're targeting had typed in a made-up name that actually revealed nothing about him... just like, say, oh, "yankeependragon"... instead of being a temporary visitor who relied on the logic of his points and didn't think he should bother...

    THEN you'd assign him some credibility?

    Oh, credibility was never an issue. You had none to begin with. I just wanted to see if you had any actual courage to put a name (any name) to your argument.

    No surprise you didn't.

    ROFL :-) You guys are too much.

    Real life can be a bit overwhelming to the sheltered and delusional, I agree. Better you go back to...wherever you came from.

    ReplyDelete
  128. Anonymous1:29 PM

    "name a right wing blogger caught sock-puppeting. Just one."

    Doesn't Glenn call himself a conservative? Ther you go. Suck on that smart guy.

    ReplyDelete
  129. Anonymous said...
    A minor point of confusion, raised by a friendly reader:

    You state that you were fired by Wachtell, Lipton, &c. before your admission to the bar, and then a bit later you state that you left the firm of your own accord and that they attempted to persuade you to stay.

    Not raising it to be a pain in the ass, but just that if you're already feeling the need to lay all this stuff out like this then having an apparent inconsistency in it probably isn't going to help any.


    Um,go back and read the post anon. Glenn was paraphrasing the charges against him:

    Glenn: These are some of the claims I've read repeatedly: Contrary to my claim, I never practiced law at Wachtell, Lipton, Rosen & Katz (the first firm at which I practiced). I was only an intern there. I was fired by that firm before I was admitted to the bar. I encountered ethical problems during my litigation practice. I'm an "unemployed" lawyer with a delinquent law license.

    He then sets the record straight:

    I was a Summer Associate at Wachtell the following summer. I then received an offer to be a full-time lawyer upon graduation in 1994, which I accepted. I worked at that firm throughout my third year of law school, and then upon graduating. I continued to work there once I was admitted to the Bar in 1995.

    All of the performance reviews I received there of my work were uniformly and enthusiastically positive. At the end of 1995, I left the firm voluntarily

    ReplyDelete
  130. Anonymous1:31 PM

    name a right wing blogger caught sock-puppeting. Just one.

    Right wingers have been attacking Indymedia sites for a long time now.

    One of their favorite tactics is to post anti-semitic conspiracy theories then turn around and denounce the same posts.

    The goal was obviously to get Indymedia delisted at Google News and it quite obviously failed.

    Happens constantly.

    ReplyDelete
  131. Anonymous1:31 PM

    glenn denies posting under any name but his own..

    it's possible his partner posted under multiple names, which means glenn is being honest..

    what motivation would glenn have to even post under multiple names? This is such a non-starter..

    I mean i'm not really surprised the right considers this a huge "scandal". Are you guys really that desperate to dig something up on Glenn and make it stick? I guess you can't argue against any of his posts
    on substance, so let's see if we can dig up some stupid IP address scandal..sad...very very sad.. i feel badly for the person or people involved in digging up this "huge scandal" for wasting so much time on it..is your life so miserable? Did your wife stop giving you affection? Maybe try spending more time with the kids will remind you of life's true wonders...or maybe you dont have either and you're drunk and miserable....step away from the computer and go enjoy life dude...

    ReplyDelete
  132. Glenn, I'm not going to pretend to tell you how to handle the vicious attacks made on you, or to know how all this has personally affected you, but I want to make some collateral points that I hope you will consider.

    I follow your blog daily, and when I'm able, I read most of the comments. I read a lot of blogs and consider myself a moderate consumer of online political material. All this being so, I was never aware of any of the attacks you wrote about today. At the risk of sounding flippant, I have to say that most people whose opinions matter give these juvenile voices in the wilderness about as much credence and weight as kids fighting over a beach ball. Again, until you mentioned them, I had never even known they existed. I do offer my greatest sympathies for your having to endure these attacks, however.

    I'm not one to jump to conclusions lightly, but it does seem to me that the "blogosphere" has a way of sucking its participants into circles of solipsism and, sometimes consequently, irrelevance. You at least make an arguable point that some of the hateful trends of the conservative blogosphere indicate a larger pathology on the right, and I appreciate that.

    However, I sense sometimes that you flirt dangerously close to the self-referencing and internal squabbling that has turned me off from so many other blogs.

    I think you are far better than that.

    Your tone and intelligence are qualitatively different from the adolescent hyperbole of so many other bloggers, including those on the left. I know how hurtful and angering public accusations and falsehoods about one's self can be, and how tempting it is to respond. Again, I don't necessarily think your refutation today wasn't appropriate or wise. It was certainly measured, exemplary, and representative of your overall professionalism.

    I also fully understand your larger point about these defamation techniques, and do regard it as important in light of the growing relevance of the blogosphere. I only write to caution that, from this reader's standpoint, you seem to edge ever closer to becoming enmeshed in the irrelevance of your more juvenile or radical critics, and I want to gently urge you to stay conscious of how the blogosphere may be affecting you, and to stay true to your substance and character while rising above the fray of the petty battles that so many people don't know or care about.

    You just have entirely too much talent to be wasting it on these lowlifes. If I may say so, you transcend even the more respected blogs on the left when you stick to hard and real issues seriously affecting our republic. You are, in those cases, a brilliant political and legal commentator who happens to be on the Internet, not a mere "blogger." When I go on Kos or so many other blogs, I have to filter out a substantial amount of utter garbage (I don't blame the blogs, that's just how the open source thing goes). You, on the other hand, have the capacity to remain immune to the gravitational pull of triviality that inevitably pours from the massive "tubes" of the internet.

    By all means, defend yourself when necessary, but please stay true to the purity with which you began this enterprise.

    With Respect and Admiration,
    "DCLaw"

    ReplyDelete
  133. Anonymous said...
    A minor point of confusion, raised by a friendly reader:

    You state that you were fired by Wachtell, Lipton, &c. before your admission to the bar, and then a bit later you state that you left the firm of your own accord and that they attempted to persuade you to stay.

    Not raising it to be a pain in the ass, but just that if you're already feeling the need to lay all this stuff out like this then having an apparent inconsistency in it probably isn't going to help any.


    Um,go back and read the post anon. Glenn was paraphrasing the charges against him:

    Glenn: These are some of the claims I've read repeatedly: Contrary to my claim, I never practiced law at Wachtell, Lipton, Rosen & Katz (the first firm at which I practiced). I was only an intern there. I was fired by that firm before I was admitted to the bar. I encountered ethical problems during my litigation practice. I'm an "unemployed" lawyer with a delinquent law license.

    He then sets the record straight:

    I was a Summer Associate at Wachtell the following summer. I then received an offer to be a full-time lawyer upon graduation in 1994, which I accepted. I worked at that firm throughout my third year of law school, and then upon graduating. I continued to work there once I was admitted to the Bar in 1995.

    All of the performance reviews I received there of my work were uniformly and enthusiastically positive. At the end of 1995, I left the firm voluntarily

    ReplyDelete
  134. Svolich:

    Deb Frisch says she wants to be the Ann Coulter of the left. Glenn has already filled that position. He says something insulting about the right, throws in some clever wordplay, and we feel like a nerd that's been kissed by the prom queen. It's all about the money, people.

    This is the most absurd thing in the entire thread. Glenn Greenwald is somehow equivalent to Ann Coulter?

    Please show us Glenn calling for the mass imprisonment of conservatives or republicans, his calling them traitors (en masse, never mind individuals) or his calling for the mass killing or converstion to Christianity of all Muslims.

    Glenn argues from well established facts and uses reason and logic to come to conclusions - most of which are not good news for the right wing.

    To say that makes him Ann Coulter in any respect is so fucking obscene I can't even countenance it.

    There is no left wing Ann coulter. Not Michael Moore, not even Ward Churchill. To the extent the left has wingnuts as bad as her, they are not supported or paid much attention to. They are not put on TV, nor do their books hit best-seller lists.

    ReplyDelete
  135. If Greenwald was using sockpuppets to defend his own posts it goes to his intellectual credibility.


    No, it doesn't.


    Yes it does, and stamping your feet and denying that fact isn't going to make it go away.

    Using sock-puppets to defend your own positions is intellectually dishonest. He's accused of defending himself by pretending to be third parties and thus trying to create an illusion of support that would not otherwise have existed. It's like a one person astro-turf campaign.

    I again point you to John Lott/Mary Rosh

    ReplyDelete
  136. Anonymous1:33 PM

    Good lord, this business with the IP address is some of the purest idiocy I've heard since Bush's last speech on Iraq.

    I do have to say, though, that those of you defending Glenn here are wasting your energy. He's already given a perfectly plausible explanation, and beyond that there's really no point trying to reason with pod people. All they know how to do is point ans shriek.

    ReplyDelete
  137. Anonymous1:34 PM

    "Sock puppeting in defense of liberty is no vice"

    Thomas Jefferson

    ReplyDelete
  138. Anonymous1:34 PM

    "I still have not seen a single freeper commenter explaining the relevance of this accusation."

    First question: What's a freeper?

    I'm a former 20-year Democrat and currently a registered Independent, if that is what you had in mind.

    Next question: Do you seriously mean that when a guy like Glenn systematically POSES AS MANY INDEPENDENT PEOPLE to support himself and show how "popular" he is... you wouldn't think that relevant to your ability to evaluate his honesty? Not to mention, mental stability?

    ROTFLMAO

    this just keeps getting better :-)

    Going back to my Rather-Mapes analogy... I guess it fits in with the Fake But Accurate(tm) approach they used. By that I mean: I guess if your whole approach to cognition and truth is "They lied to me but it's OK to lie to me in the interest of a larger truth", then no, it wouldn't bother you that your hero (Glenn) was exposed as a phony.

    ReplyDelete
  139. Anonymous1:34 PM

    It is an interesting excuse for using sock pupets. One I haven't seen tried before. If it works in this case no one will ever be succesfuly accused of using sock pupets ever again. (Hey, it wasn't me doing it, I was just coaching 5 other previously unknown people who happen to live in my house to do it for me.) In the words of Dr. Evil Rrrright... In my own words, "pitifull"

    ReplyDelete
  140. Anonymous1:34 PM

    Your responses are to accusations that were never made. You have constructed straw men so that it appears you are responding. And what are you trying to say here?

    "Those in the same household have the same IP address."

    Sounds like you're saying "I didn't write those phony sock puppet posts, my boyfreind did.

    ReplyDelete
  141. Anonymous1:34 PM

    Shorter specter, karol, &c.:

    sock puppet blah blah wank wank splort

    Seriously, did you have something substantive to say? You know, debate on the merits?

    And, while I'm on the scurrilous subject, from specter's user profile:

    I really believe that we, as a world, have lost the ability to communicate and share ideas - especially in a written manner. Hopefully, we can be non-snarky and/or troll-like and take pleasure in debate.

    ...unless it suits us, I guess, in which case we can be as snarky and as troll-like as we please. Well done!

    -- Aaron (at acephalo dot us)

    ReplyDelete
  142. Anonymous1:35 PM

    This is hilarious. All you guys seem able to do is attack "right-wingers" and "Rove" over and over and ignore that the IPs match up, proving that it was Glenn.

    This is hilarious. All you seem able to do is attack Glenn over and over, repeat that the IPs match up, and claim that the match up proves that it was Glenn. It does not.

    ReplyDelete
  143. Anonymous1:36 PM

    ...it wouldn't bother you that your hero (Glenn) was exposed as a phony.

    That's right, keep saying it. That way some people might actually think you've done it. It won't matter that you haven't and you can't, it'll just give ignorant, cowardly conservatives an excuse to run away from what they can't handle ...

    ... again.
    .

    ReplyDelete
  144. Anonymous1:36 PM

    Either it was Glenn, or people in Glenn's house. Take your pick.

    I pick the latter.

    So this proves that Glenn has housemates who defend him. And how exactly does this bear on, say, Glenn's observations about the illegality of the NSA wiretapping?

    A shared IP would mean people posting from Glenn's home network. Do you people get it yet? Glenn was involved in this. It was his public IP address being used by these other accounts.

    Well, I don't know how a shared IP address suddenly becomes "Glenn's" IP address, over which he is lord and master.

    Isn't it possible that many people in one house (or apartment, or Starbucks around the corner) all use the same IP address, and it is in fact, a SHARED IP address?

    Dudes, you need to get a life.

    ReplyDelete
  145. Anonymous1:36 PM

    - An individual who shares Glenn's home, on occasion, uses more than one handle when leaving comments.

    Actually, GG didn't say this and I have to wonder why. I would think this would impeach his credibility somewhat and I wonder why you folks are not being more insistent he come forward and offer just that excuse.

    Think maybe your host has something to be ashamed of here, like he's hiding behind his lover or something? Why would that be his fault?

    So why won't he come clean with a very credible excuse when it's being handed to him. Is he enjoying this?

    I know I'm enjoying watching you folks make lame-ass excuses for him.

    spongeworthy

    ReplyDelete
  146. Anonymous1:36 PM

    Glenn, as a former litigator, you no doubt are familiar with the saying "When the law is on your side, pound the law. When the facts are on your side, pound the facts. When neither is on your side, pound the table." You must be doing something right, because you have a whole lot of people from the right-wing blogosphere pounding the table right now.

    Keep up the good work - the blogosphere needs more clear-thinking analysts like you.

    ReplyDelete
  147. oops, sorry for the double post.

    ReplyDelete
  148. Anonymous1:39 PM

    Glen,

    regardless of why you were compelled to write a post about you and your background, I am very glad you did.

    You are a fascinating person and I thank you for fighting the good fight.

    On a personal note, my mother keeps bugging my partner and I to get married (we have 2 children (twins)), but we have vowed not to until same-sex unions are recognized as equal to heterosexual marriages under the law.

    Oh lord, not just the freepers, but Charles Bird has shown up. I gave up reading Obsidian Wings because of him and his posts.

    ReplyDelete
  149. Anonymous1:39 PM

    I don't know if Greenwald did a John Lott or not. If he did, it will probably come out.

    I know I have seen him sign his name to his posts enough times that I cannot imagine why he would use a sock puppet.

    I also don't know why using a sock puppet is supposedly such a crime, unless like Lott, your Mary Rosh is telling people of her personal experiences of John Lott that she clearly never had. This is the internet right? I myself am a dog.

    Regarding IP addresses. I would expect to find NATted proxies with people that seem to share an IP address at libraries, at government facilities, at coffee houses, at AOL, from mobile users of SprintPCS, at airports, in downtowns with free wifi, at large global companies where all traffic from anywhere around the world is first sent to the corporate proxy before being sent out to the cloud. I would suspect T-Mobile customers at all Starbucks may all have the same or similar IP addresses.

    Glenn Greenwald has been a blogger for 9 months, not for 7 months nor 10 months. In that time he has gone from zero traffic to amazing traffic. In that time he has had his blogs read on the floor of congress by Russ Feingold, not by Trent Lott. Hugh Hewitt has never had one of his blogs read on the floor of congress. Greenwald has written a best seller as measured by the measurer of best sellers, the New York Times. Ace/Pasty/Misha/Patterico have not done so.

    Each of those achievements is pretty damned impressive, and of course, they are all linked. His traffic is due to the value of the content he provides, as well as to the notoriety of having a best selling book and having Russ Feingold read his blog. And Russ Feingold reads his blog because of the value of the content Glenn provides. And Russ reading the blog adds to the interest in his book.

    If 3 people were going to mention Jeff Goldstein, they would probably mention his fetish about cock slapping, the fact that he is unemployed, and the suspicion he eats paste.

    You are sampling on the dependent variable. How many things is Glenn known for? Not that many. How many other posts did you ignore that do not mention these things?

    ReplyDelete
  150. Anonymous1:40 PM

    I know I have seen him sign his name to his posts enough times that I cannot imagine why he would use a sock puppet.

    Should be:

    I know I have seen him sign his name to his comments at other's blogs enough times that I cannot imagine why he would use a sock puppet.

    ReplyDelete
  151. Anonymous1:40 PM

    Hey Bush Cultists! You should put 1/100th of the effort you invest in personally attacking critics into examining the actual record of the Bush Administration.

    You have been wrong about everything! It's a good thing for our dear leader that so many of his followers are frightened and trusting rubes.

    ReplyDelete
  152. As for IP addresses. Everytime I visit Wikipedia, I have messages accusing me of vandalising entries. I have never once edited an entry, but someone sharing my IP apparently has. Wikipedia can't tell the difference, why should I believe right wing hacks could?

    ReplyDelete
  153. Anonymous1:43 PM

    Just a word of support for you Glenn. Keep up the good work!

    ReplyDelete
  154. Anonymous1:44 PM

    "IP addresses signify the Internet account one uses, not any one individual."

    Fundamentally wrong. IP addresses are associated with specific devices attached to the network. (In this case, the internet). From DNS records, it's clear those posts came from one residence in Brasil.


    Hey fuckwit -- 'one residence' doesn't equal 'one person'.

    I see the argument now, Glenn wrote the stuff to support his points or 'coached' his friend/friends to do it -- because, after all, it would be FUCKING LUNATIC to even consider that people would independently argue against attacks on their friends. Yes, much like Kos runs the Internets, Glenn tells everyone around him exactly what to write. Yes, that makes more sense than an exercise of free will (unlike your robot-like responses to someone else's attempt to score a point against Greenwald -- should I just assume that you are all Patterico?).

    You guys are really and truly pathetic. Obsessed with trivia while your entire worldview is collasping around you.

    At least Bart argues the matters at hand. This is the most pitiful display of personal attack I've ever seen.

    ReplyDelete

  155. And oh guru - how do you change logs? More Grand Right Wing Conspiracy I see.


    They're text files. You edit them. You post the edited file on your site and say "look at what Greenwald does!!!1"

    That's the problem here, it is trivial to falsify this stuff and no one can ever prove it one way or the other.

    Do you people ever engage someone substantively on their merits? Really, EVER? All I ever see the right wing do is attack their opponents' credibility. Again and again. Gore - Liar, Kerry - Liar, Dean - Crazy, Joe Wilson - traitor and liar who only got the job through patronage, Murtha - coward, and so on.

    Greenwald continually substantively engages his opponents, recounts what they said and refutes it piecemeal and in detail.

    So congratulations wing-nuts, you've given yourself your "out" to ignore everything Glenn says. When he demonstrates how Specter's bill is a total cave in to the administration and not a compromise, it doesn't matter because of sock-puppetry, when he shows the Administrations Article II claims are not grounded in any prior constitutional law and not made in good faith, it doesn't matter because of sock-puppetry, when he demonstrates the blogs you read are populated and run by violent extremists it doesn't matter because of sock-puppetry.

    Score 1 for cognitive dissonance.

    ReplyDelete
  156. Anonymous1:46 PM

    And one more point about sharing IP addresses, this would also be the case if someone in an apartment or neighborhood has an unprotected wifi or is using the linksys community network. And it would also be the same if folks are using various anonymizer services, regardless of those folks individual locations.

    And frankly, let's see some actual evidence of this besides the dubious claims of well known pig-fucking, pension-raiding, incest-loving, paste-eating, wife-beating, brown-folk-hating conservatards (hat tip to Geoff Nunberg)

    ReplyDelete
  157. Brian said... Every time you try and escalate this issue, you step on your dick

    Jealous much? Or secretly attracted?

    ReplyDelete
  158. Anonymous1:53 PM

    name a right wing blogger caught sock-puppeting. Just one.


    Thanks for the softball:
    John Lott

    Making such a blanketing claim only sets you up for failure.

    ReplyDelete
  159. Anonymous1:54 PM

    A shared IP would mean people posting from Glenn's home network. Do you people get it yet? Glenn was involved in this. It was his public IP address being used by these other accounts.

    You guys are in total denial, and frankly, it's absolutely hilarious.


    A shared IP implies Glenn was involved, huh? You are in total denial; and, frankly, it's absolutely hilarious.

    Excuse me, I've got to go inform all of the other users of my shared IP that you have now proven that they have been involved in this discussion. I hope they'll each step up to their responsibility.

    ReplyDelete
  160. Anonymous1:56 PM

    simp,

    so you're saying glenn has the same amount of credibility as lott now?

    ReplyDelete
  161. Anonymous1:58 PM

    Rolls eyes....

    As I have just cuaght someonecreating e-mails (they busted themselves by getting the day wrong with the date) I have no doubt that some eager rightie might have done that.

    However what sticks most in my mind is that when I am in Alaska, I use someone else's computor...and lo, we do post about the same things. And so do several other people, who also happen to be staying in that house, as we are transients staying with friends.

    Now if one of these said friends was controversial, had a book, etc...then of course all the other friends staying at the house or in the naeighbourhood would post from there...and you all would be CERTAIN that it is the same person because the IP shows an Alaskan address.

    PROOF! I SAY PROOF! that it has to be one person.

    You all need to get out in the world more. This is all you've got? Sad.

    ReplyDelete
  162. Anonymous2:01 PM

    I read Glenn Greenwald from time to time. I like his thoughtful, verbose style.

    There are other blogs I read, too (just as sporadically as Mr. Greenwald's). I'm neither, though, a blogger myself nor a regular consumer of blogs... rare, it seems, is the blogger who offers anything earth-shatteringly informative--Mr. Greenwald is an exception--but watching people act out online presents a fascinating study of human (mis)behavior.

    So, no, I'm not a member of the tribe, and perhaps I don't understand the rules here. Still, I'm not seeing the efficacy of countering Mr. Greenwald's reasoned argument with the sort of ad hominem attacks that he describes and that I've witnessed. (I mean, really... let's suppose, for the sake of argument, that Mr. Greenwald really is a disbarred, closeted Brazillian--and that he receives financial support from the Hanso Foundation, to boot... What, precisely and for instance, has that to do with the question of whether or not the Bush administration's domestic surveillance activities are legal?)

    Really, the whole thing is just so painfully adolescent. Case-in-point, this "Sock Puppet Scandal," which seems to boil down to : "Me and my friends are more than you and your "make-believe" friends, so nanny-nanny, boo-boo!"

    For real?

    It's just so... well... queen-like. (And yes, perhaps there is something wrong with that.)

    (Parenthetically, there used to be a time that men, especially, were cautious to not let there mouths buy what their a$$es couldn't pay for... It's a shame, then, that Mr. Greenwald won't get on a plane and administer a beat down or two. Perhaps it's another reflection of the emasculization of our culture, but, boy, I sure would love to see the return of some behavior-consequence chains!)

    Mr. Greenwald suggest that some of these non-substantive attacks are being propogated by attention-seeking bloogers lusting for trackbacks. That sounds plausible to me. However, I worry about "unintended consequences." Since it seems that Mr. Greenwald's attackers intend to shame him into silence by pulling these imagined "skeletons" from his closet, I wonder: what does it mean if some portion of our population believes that one can't express himself in the public square (that is, take advantage of his first amendment rights) if he is not as pure as the driven snow?

    Who, precisely, will that leave?

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  163. Anonymous2:02 PM

    “……..Glenn has far more courage and integrity…….”

    Michael, you need to choose your words a bit more carefully.

    Glenn showed no courage or integrity in his denial of the sockpuppetry. The act itself was a minor infraction of blog ethics, easily explained away with a spin of “I wanted to defend myself in the comments section, but I didn’t want to start a blog war using my own name”.

    Instead, the cover-up exceeds the severity of the crime. He displays a lack of courage by denying the false ID’s in the face of overwhelming evidence, and then shows he is totally devoid of integrity by allowing his “followers” to defend him at the cost of their intellectual honesty.

    His unwritten explanation alluding to others that may have had access to his computer makes the anticipated “confession” of his partner more than a sad commentary on his “integrity”.

    If you want to show your support for Glenn, at least use the Clintonian post-blue-dress approach of “So what?” Don’t lower yourself to pseudoscientific sunspot-IP-changing-alien-computer-party line explanations that only enforce the Jim Jones Kool-Aid party acceptance you show.

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  164. HWSNBN said:

    Sincerely,

    "The hack DUI attorney who never graduated law school."


    I've never stated you didn't graduate from law school, Bart. We just wonder how you did it. ;-)

    Cheers,

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  165. Anonymous2:06 PM

    Fundamentally wrong. IP addresses are associated with specific devices attached to the network. (In this case, the internet). From DNS records, it's clear those posts came from one residence in Brasil.

    Fundamentally wrong. You yourself just (almost correctly) stated that an IP identifies a specific network device. It does not clearly identify a residence.

    For those who understand the technology, it is clearly likely that someone was engaging in sock-puppetry in defense of Glenn. It is not clear that Glenn himself knew of it, approved of it, or bears any responsibility for it. On the other hand, he has unequivocally denied engaging in sock-puppetry himself.

    I'd be willing to bet, however, that he has had a recent, tension-filled conversation with at least one person close to him.

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  166. (My bet is the guy with the problems with Wikipedia is accessing it from a network that includes a real vandal. Is he a college student? Do he access it from work?)

    First of all, I'm a gal.;) Second, and ironically, I don't get the message when I visit Wikipedia from work, but I do when visiting from home. Goes to show IP addresses do not necessarily help identify an individual.

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  167. Thank God for all this discussion of sockpuppetry. For a second I got confused and thought that this site was about the Constitution, laws, executive privilege yadda yadda yadda. Bo-ring.

    Frankly, I don't give a shit if Glenn dresses up in a clown outfit and posts defenses of himself under various pseudonyms based on Nancy Drew characters (and by the way, Drew? Totally lesbian). Our insane inability to separate the man from the value of his arguments -- or conversely, certain people's needs to value their opinion of someone personally over the value of his arguments -- is what's destroying this nation. I despise Pat Buchanan, but I agree with him on certain things. I didn't like Bill Clinton at all, but he ran the hell out of the country. I admire John McCain, but don't agreee with his policies.

    Is Glenn's legal analysis of the current Administration's policies useful or accurate? That's it. Any other considerations put you firmly in the camp of fishwife.

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  168. Anonymous2:10 PM

    At the company I work for, I share a few outward internet addresses with over 150,000 other employees located in just about every state and in just about every country world-wide.

    At the physical site I am work at right now, I VPN in to to the main-site about 30 miles away. Others who work at that main-site with me, are VPNing in today to that site from locations around the United States, from the East Coast to the North West. All of these people when they surf the net will have the same IP address. (And will have their traffic sniffed and censored by the company firewall.)

    If you are living in a foreign country and are well known for a few very notable events as well as a general disliking to a very disagreeable president, how many people in your building, neighborhood, city, country are going to know who you are and what you are known for? And what percentage of these people may be using the same ISP? And does that ISP have any web-caching proxy servers?

    And apart from the claims with no real physical, easily unalterable evidence, just what evidence do you have?

    In contrast, how many times has Greenwald posted a comment on someone else's blog with his own name? Wasn't it Patterico or Pasty was threatening to ban Greenwald because he was posting under his name on his blog?

    So in short, there are very legit explanations, absolutely no easily unalterable physical evidence, and large signs of contrary behavior.

    wv: csirmp , CSI, Royal Mounted Police?

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  169. Anonymous2:12 PM

    "I think it was Socrates who mentioned one is at their pinnacle-height of providing service to society when 'hate-bash' people say all kinds of mean, and horrible ills about you."

    No, that was Thomas Jefferson. things Jefferson Said, 3rd ed.

    -Emperor of Icecream

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  170. Anonymous2:13 PM

    The venom from the right-wing few who still support Bush (you know, the ones who were until the other day absolutely unaware that Russia and China were big countries) is astonishing. I continue to learn more and more about those folks, and they continue to look more and more like brain-damaged anti-American fascist goofballs who don't have the intelligence to tie their shoes. Oh, wait, Karol (who calls you a naughty name above, the li'l scamp) has a really good recommendation on her blog for a really comfortable pair of shoes that she got for "only $29"!!! So they do provide something of interest in today's political discourse.

    We love you, Glenn. Wear their scorn and hatred like the badge of honor it really is for those of us trying to save the country from their stupidity and mania.

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  171. Anonymous2:13 PM

    I have been reading your blog since I saw you on an interview back in November (I think) and I was so impressed by your manner and thoughtful way of speaking. As a retired teacher/librarian I am pleased to read more about your background and don't find it boring at all. I wish I were reading it under fairer circumstances. Now that you have filled in the blanks... hopefully you will never feel the need to enlighten the un-enlightenable again. Sandy Shelton

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  172. Anonymous2:16 PM

    WhatAPundit.

    Not a bed and breakfast. When we are working in Alaska and not having our computors up there we do congregate with friends that have houses there. So our IPs would be very close or the same.

    The same goes when our AK resident friends come down to the PNW. They use our comps. Hang out at our houses.

    Much like people who don't live full time in Brazil, there, too, a group of friends might use the same comp..to defend their friend.

    Really, the rest of the world is more fluid than you realise. Occam's razor cuts both ways.

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  173. Anonymous2:16 PM

    Hey, spongeworthy?

    Why don't you drink a nice, tall glass of shut the fuck up already?


    And I thought I was enjoying this before!

    You know, I think I can offer a very good reason why GG won't just come right out and say his lover's been defending him. I think Ronaldinho-if that's even his real name--doesn't speak very good English and some of GG's readers are aware of this.

    Which points back to GG as the puppetmaster. You know, if I hadn't heard such simple-minded attempts to defend this guy I would probably have gone with the Outraged Lover excuse, but sometimes you can defend a guy not wisely but well.

    You know, I agree sockpuppetry's a pretty minor offense, but watching the bankrupt defense offered here by both GG and his claque has been the real window in to the lying hearts of the Left.

    spongeworthy

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  174. Anonymous2:16 PM

    Glenn,

    Does Ellison have any books out on executive authority?

    How about Wilson?

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  175. Anonymous2:20 PM

    WhatsAPundit said...

    "Hey fuckwit -- 'one residence' doesn't equal 'one person'."

    That's why I wrote it as one residence; I like to be precise in my language. I find it more aesthetically pleasing than coarseness.


    Whatever fuckwit. Spare me the vapors. My point, is that multiple people can use the same computer. The implication you and the other mouthbreathers are so pointlessly persuing is that Glenn is a single guy posting -- or telling someone else what to post -- using various pseudonyms.

    The elephant in the room though is how similar both the content and writing styles are between the people sharing Glen's network. Maybe that's why he like's Brazil so much; so many like-minded, colloquial English-speaking friends to be found there...

    I think it's one person who isn't Glenn using different pseudonyms. Did I miss the day 'whatsapundit' when they declared that noteworthy on the Internet?

    And dan, I think we have a new winner for "the dumbest fucking thing said on this thread":

    The act itself was a minor infraction of blog ethics [this, while unwittingly hilarious, isn't the dumbest part -- ed.], easily explained away with a spin of “I wanted to defend myself in the comments section, but I didn’t want to start a blog war using my own name”.

    Dear tool: Glenn has posted ad nauseum on other blogs, using his own name, and is subsequently swept up into blog wars anyway. You guys attack him on trivialities every single day and he's always met you head on, with his own name. Why on Earth would he start posing as someone else now? Did this never occur to you, or are you still surprised every day the sun rises in the East?

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  176. Glenn:

    Freedom of speech is a great thing. Let these rightwingers attack….it’s their legacy they are writing for themselves and history will judge them for what they truly are…fanatics. In the end, reason will prevail in this county, and when that day comes, these fanatics will be ostracized for good.

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  177. Anonymous2:23 PM

    Using sock-puppets to defend your own positions is intellectually dishonest.

    Tell it to, inter alios, Messrs. Hamilton, Madison, and Jay -- a.k.a. Publius. Defending your own positions under another identity is not intellectually dishonest, nor does it negate the truth or importance of those positions. Quite to the contrary, it can serve to aide others' rational insight unencumbered by ad hominem biases against the original identity.

    ReplyDelete
  178. Anonymous2:25 PM

    I read your blog a lot, Glenn, though I rarely post comments [nothing intelligent to add], but I wanted to give you a standing ovation for replying to the raving personal hysterics coming from the right with class and calmness, but you don't pull any punches either. Keep up the good work you've been doing!

    ReplyDelete
  179. Anonymous2:28 PM

    Greenwald,you fat douchebag sock-puppeteer-THANK YOU!I bought your book,passed it on to my mom and dad,who will pass it on to my brother,who...I intend to buy another copy or two to send off in different directions.Speaking of my parents,depending on who's visiting,their computer is used by them,my wife and I,my(adult)children,my brother and his wife,their(teen-age)kids,my mom's cousins and nephews,et al.,all from the same IP address.Imagine that.Or don't,if you can't-imagination and creativity are two qualities in short supply in the authoritarian right-wing.

    ReplyDelete
  180. Anonymous2:28 PM

    Sock-Puppetry-Gate 2006:
    "The wingers' last hope"

    IMHO, 2 possible explanations:

    1-Glenn's partner and/or friends decided to weigh in on the discussion.

    2-The records were doctored.

    Given the history of the wingers, I suggest #2 is more likely. A third possibility (that Glenn is lying) is very unlikely given Glenn's record.

    So, in short....who cares? (I saw Karl Rove jaywalking yesterday!!!)

    ReplyDelete
  181. Anonymous2:30 PM

    So, Glenn, lost in all of your hyberbole, do you condemn Ms Frisch for her comments regarding the 2 year old child of Jeff Goldstein, or do you support it?
    Your 11 hours to condemn, as per your standards, passed LONG ago!

    ReplyDelete
  182. anonymous:

    Glenn is the precise opposite of that. Glenn is 5 separate (pretend) people, all in the same house, all somehow magically using ONE same IP address in a 24-hour period to post nearly identically worded comments in support of Glenn on various blogs.

    <201.37.43.1> is a router IP. That means the computer(s) behind it are being NATed. The netmask for that domain is 16 bits; that's a whole lot of computers. And I saw that one of the supposed "sock puppets" was advertised as having this different IP: <201.17.101.161>

    Then you have Glenn's explanation that others use the same account that he does.

    Cheers,

    ReplyDelete
  183. Anonymous2:33 PM

    "it would mean these posters would have to have been in Glenn's house, posting from behind Glenn's NAT router."

    Not necessarily. I have four computers in my home sharing one IP address. I also have two neighbors close enough that if I let them, they could also share my IP address through my wireless router. I even on occasion have friends over who use one of my computers to access the internet. It is simply stupid and pig-headed to continue to assert that different names posting from the same IP address necessarily means that Glenn is guilty of sock-puppetry. He has said that he has not done so. His track record of honesty coupled with the extraordinary weakness of the IP address argument leads me to believe him not some right wing wackos.

    ReplyDelete
  184. icarus: your only defense against the fact that at least four different "people" have popped up on blogs from YOUR IP ADDRESS .... is to blame it on other people in your house?

    You're kidding, right?

    Who? Your mother? Your children? Your partner?


    Does the offal you call brains stink so bad that you are so high to see the imbecility of your remarks?

    There's a simple answer: sure, why not? What's wrong with those people trying to defend Glenn?

    What happened, did your own mother disown you at birth and you're hell-bent to wreak revenge?

    Your wife/significant other run off with someone whose skin color you despise so much it makes worms crawl out your nose?

    Get real. Open the window shades, let the sun in. It'll kill all those vermin buzzing in your ears.

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  185. Anonymous2:34 PM

    Let's summarize, folks.

    (1) Fact: Posts loudly defending Glenn have appeared on many different blogs, with these common elements:

    -- One common, identical Brazilian IP address.
    -- Identical style.
    -- Near-identical content in defending Glenn.

    (2) The posts appeared under pseudonyms - which would be fine - except they were multiple pseudonyms - thus transmitting a (likely false or deceptive) impression of totally separate people, Glenn's great popularity, etc.

    -- The names used included, but may not be limited to: "Thomas Ellers", "Ryan", "Sam Mathews", "Ellison", "Wilson", "Glenn Greenwald", possibly others.

    -- That's SIX and counting.

    (3)Glenn's defense (above) implies they were written by others in his Brazilian household.

    -- Then why would some in this thread allege a VRWC? (one person tried to suggest: spoofed addresses, spoofed access logs, multiple established bloggers all deciding to commit lies together, etc. Why propose that, if Glenn himself implies the comments did all come from his household?)

    -- And why doesn't Glenn just come out and say (definitively) which household member(s) it was? Does he really have FIVE (or more) other defenders in his Brazilian household, all with excellent English, all spontaneously thinking of points conveniently similar to Glenn's own? What does it say about Glenn (i.e., training them) if he does? Why doesn't he just get to the bottom of it, then come clean?

    Possibilities in DESCENDING order of plausibility / likelihood:

    (a) One other person in Glenn's household has been playing sock puppets.

    (b) Glenn has, vainly and irrationally, been playing sock puppets.

    (c) When in Brazil, Glenn and his partner live with a vast cohort of Northerners / Europeans who spend their time online defending Glenn, from identical talking points they have derived together.

    (d) A vast right-wing conspiracy is obsessed with Glenn, plotting to exterminate him professionally with its enormous reach, etc.

    Again - if the truth is (a), making Glenn innocent on some level (but still involved), Glenn should come clean on who it was. Not their name - just their story, whether he's asked them to stop the bad behavior, etc. If Glenn can't or won't come clean about that, then (b) has to stay in the running as a real possibility, for any rational person.

    Now the Greenwald cultists here will desperately try to change the subject.

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  186. Keep on being effective, Glenn.

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  187. Anonymous2:45 PM

    All these hypothicals are fun, but from my perspective Occam is working heavily against Mr. Greenwald.

    Those are your biases, not Occam's razor.

    ReplyDelete
  188. Anonymous2:46 PM

    So-called "sock-puppetry" was a big deal on Usenet circa 1996. Grow up wingnuts, the world has passed you by.

    Anyone who still supports W is clearly not willing to address reality, so you manage to keep reality at arms length by focusing on irrelevancies like sock-puppetry. Thanks for destroying the country.

    ReplyDelete
  189. Anonymous2:46 PM

    Despite the complete idiocy of the charges, it's ironic that there are more thoughtful and original posts coming from a single IP address in Brazil than the entirety of the right wing blogosphere and their army of flying monkey commenters.

    ReplyDelete
  190. Anonymous2:49 PM

    The great fascination with Glenn in the right blogosphere has to be about something more than sock puppets. It doesn't seem like this is what had everyone paying attention to Glenn in the first place. They've come up with nothing of substance or materiality, so they go for sock puppets.

    Speaking of sock puppets - anyone know the names of the people that signed the Federalist Papers?

    ReplyDelete
  191. Anonymous2:50 PM

    Glenn,

    Illegitimati non carborundum.

    ReplyDelete
  192. "the nog" is clueless:

    A NAT IP address would still be an IP that Glenn uses from his house. You use a NAT when you have a network of computers you want connected to the Internet, sharing the same connection. So mentioning "NAT" over and over is moot if it still means someone was posting from Glenn's house.

    "The nog" assumes (in a different post) that the NAT is Glenn's personal router. I doubt Glenn's running a Class C router; more likely the ISP is, and that's who's doing (at least one) NAT. Here he makes the same mistake (and neglects DHCP assignment as well). Not to mention there's at least three different IPs that are claimed to be "the same" (201.37.43.1, 201.37.43.117, and 201.17.101.161).

    Not to mention Glenn's comment that others do use his account.

    Better trolls, please.

    Cheers,

    ReplyDelete
  193. Anonymous2:52 PM

    From anonymous at 2:34pm:

    Let's summarize, folks.

    Still haven't worked up the courage to name yourself, eh? No surprise there.

    You're summary of this non-controversy seems accurate enough, which ironically reduces its relevance. Even granting your various premises (precisely how many posts on how many other blogs under which IP Addresses are we talking about anyway?) which rest on technical issues that - if I'm reading right - have already been either seriously challenged or more complex than you're willing to admit to, there's one fundamental question you haven't answered:

    SO WHAT?

    Glenn has already stated he's not using 'sock puppets' to hype himself or his work. No-one here has been able to prove him false nor present a solid technical argument that definitely proves otherwise.

    Unless you can bring clear and indisputable evidence he's lied or is indeed engaging in this action, let it go will you? Even if your motives for pushing this are pure as the driven snow (something I find hard to believe, but then I'm cynical like that), you haven't presented a shred of evidence that doesn't wilt under scrutiny; pushing it just puts in the same category as the idiots who are insisting Saddam Hussein was in bed with Usama Bin Laden on 9/11.

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  194. Anonymous2:53 PM

    Now the Greenwald cultists here will desperately try to change the subject.

    Hmm. Looks like a combination of a) and d) in that someone Glenn knows probably posted at least two of those messages and right-wing crazies are pissing themselves over it like they did with the absurd "NYT Travel in league with al Qaeda" story.

    It's no coincidence that it is the same crowd that both 1) thinks these few IP numbers irrefutably show Glenn up to hijinx and 2) think that massive automated trawls through financial records, email records, phone records can effectively produce actionable intelligence.

    That is to say, there is a clear correlation of technical incompetency with a few specific current memes.

    ReplyDelete
  195. Well! Now that you've ADMITTED you're gay, you're not working for a greedy cabal of corporate lawyers, and you not only KNOW a foreigner but have a sexual relationship with him, how could I POSSIBLY believe any of the "facts," or "logic," or "reasoned debate," or "carefully crafted arguments based on constitutional case law," or "acknowledged facts supported by multiple sources and uncovered by rigorous journalistic practices" that I read on your blog?!?!

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  196. Anyone notice how many of these walking dead wingnuts mention Glenn's writing "10,000" word postings?

    Why the focus on this, I wonder. Possibilities include: 1) they find it hard to read, much less understand, 10,000 words, 2) their heads explode after 1,000 words, 3) they are so used to reading blog entries documenting the glacial shift of offal around the brains of their paramour ideologues that anything resembling cogent thought sets them into a rage.

    I think 3 is the most likely explanation. Their self-disgust at being born is so apparent you can cut it with a knife.

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  197. Anonymous2:57 PM

    Why on Earth would he start posing as someone else now?

    Well, that's obvious: Being on the NYT bestseller list, being quoted in the well of the Senate, authoring a heavily trafficked blog, etc. just doesn't give Glenn enough stature or gravitas -- something that is easily corrected by having a few sock-puppets post supporting comments on lesser blogs. It's all so obvious if you just look.

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  198. the nog sez:

    That's the best part. Anyone even vaguely familiar with networking knows that Glenn's explanation is bogus. IPs are geographic entities--if a "shared IP" was being used, that would mean those other posters were posting from Glenn's computers at his own home, because Glenn's router is set up with that IP.

    Anyone "vaguely familiar witrh networking" knows that "the nog" is full'o'shite. Glenn may not even have a router (or it might be like a wireless router with a private 192.168.xxx.xxx local subnet with NAT and a common shared public IP presented) ... but the 201.37.43.1 public address is almost assuredly an ISP's router address.

    Cheers,

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  199. Anonymous3:00 PM

    Hey, fuckwit:

    The simplest explanation is that Greenwald or his partner (I could buy that) wrote all the comments.

    Say you're half-right. And that his partner wrote the comments. Under different pseudonyms. How does this say anything about Glenn?

    The presumption you and your 'intellectual' allies is one of conspiracy. What if it's just a friend or partner with his own reasons?

    Why would this be anything less than obvious to anyone who actually HAS friends?

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  200. Anonymous3:00 PM

    I am curious that this seeming infatuation from the right about the possibility of Glenn or someone posing as multiple online personalities, if they will ever address John Lott and Mary Rosh?

    But I am sure that Patterico or someone will be able to create some false analogy about how this is so much more serious of a problem.

    ReplyDelete