Monday, December 12, 2005

Sending Eugene McCarthy off to hell (updated)

A little informal survey of the right side of the blogosphere yesterday, the day after the death of anti-war Senator Eugene McCarthy, revealed the emergence of two camps: those who felt constrained to respectfully note that McCarthy seemed to possess genuinely held (and wrong-headed) anti-war convictions, and those who had no compunction about expressing what they really feel about McCarthy.

Here are a few highly representative comments from Protein Wisdom, which, notably, tends to attract a more restrained and reasonable element as compared to other neoconservative gathering places:
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May Eugene McCarthy, seditious scum and all around worthless son of a bitch roast and rot in the darkest, hottest corner of hell forever and a day (emphasis in original).
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McCarthy was the first eruption of the disease that is consuming the Democratic Party of today.
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Eugene McCarthy helped enslave more people than Lincoln freed, he helped extend the life of communism another 20 years and he was complicite (sic) in the killing of almost as many people as Hitler.

But his heart was in the right place. Burning in hell would only begin his deserved punishment.

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There is a substantial (and, by all appearances, growing) portion of the American population which has genuinely come to believe that anyone opposed to an American war is -- by virtue of that opposition and it alone, and regardless of the reasons for that opposition -- a morally depraved, subversive traitor. The kind of comments excerpted above are precisely the sentiments routinely applied to Jack Murtha, Howard Dean, Richard Clarke, and anyone else whose career demonstrates a dedication to their country and adherence to quite mainstream principles but who comes to question the wisdom of the war. They are instantaneously and widely decreed to be cowardly terrorist sympathizers who deserve unlimited punishment.

The anonymity which the blogosphere affords to so many is somewhat analogous to alcohol – it causes people to lose their inhibitions and thus to say things which they wouldn’t say in its absence but which nonetheless reflect their true thoughts. And, to extend the comparison a little further, the comments section of many blogs are like raucous neighborhood bars, repositories for unconstrained and therefore truthful discussions. Comments like the ones excerpted above from Protein Wisdom were far from uncommon yesterday, because the underlying views they convey are becoming increasingly pervasive.

UPDATE: Jeff Goldstein, the proprietor and host of Protein Wisdom, gallantly leaps to the defense of his commenters in the Comments section to this post:

For what it's worth, I think McCarthy was a principled guy -- or better, I believe he believed himself to be a principled guy, those his principles seemed to pull him all over the place. As such, while I disagreed with much of his politics, I don't hold him in the kind of ill regard I hold those whose anti-war stance I take to be more opportunistic than heartfelt. . . .

Some of my commenters (several of whom fought in Vietnam) are still remarkably angry at McCarthy and his ilk. Divisive times, those.


I love how Jeff justifies and excuses his commenters who equate Eugene McCarthy with Adolph Hitler and publicly wish -- the day after McCarthy dies -- that he burn in hell forever. We just have to understand that they are passionate about that era and are speaking from some hard-core convictions.

By contrast, for Jeff, anyone who (understands how intelligence works and) says that George Bush misled the nation with regard to Iraqi WMDs is way over the line of decency and can't possibly be saying that with any sincerity at all. (Such) individuals who express this view are just opportunistic traitors who -- unlike Jeff's commenters -- are unprecedently corrupting American political dialogue and harming the country's interests with their rancid, ugly rhetoric.

It's good that Jeff holds both sides to the same standards rather than reflectively defending even the most facially reprehensible statements just because those responsible for them reside on his side of the ideological spectrum. (Revisions to Update in parenthesis).

7 comments:

  1. Anonymous1:01 PM

    And those are the moderate comments. Check out LGF and all the other sewers.

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  2. Anonymous3:19 PM

    . . . I don't hold him in the kind of ill regard I hold those whose anti-war stance I take to be more opportunistic than heartfelt.

    i'm trying to imagine how one can take a position in opposition to a war that is being waged by one's own government in a fashion that is "more opportunistic than heartfelt?"

    i guess the thought process would be something like "hmmm, maybe writing an anti-war op-ed for my local newsrag will get my name vilified by Bill O'Reilly, my books trashed by Sean Hannity, and my concert bookings cancelled by ClearChannel. What a smart career move that will turn out to be in 3 years when everybody else realizes I was right and they were wrong."

    Or am i missing something?

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  3. Anonymous5:19 PM

    If they haven't resolved their anger after 40 years, they should probably be in therapy, not on yoru blog.

    If you don't consider that to be disgusting hate speech, what would qualify?

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  4. Rather, I was suggesting that I don't agree with the ones you cited.

    I know you don't agree with them, but you were excusing their behavior by offering up emotional explanations for it. You sounded like a defense attorney asking for his clients to be exonerated because they had a bad childhood.

    Your sensitive and tolerant understanding of your commenters' vile comments stands in marked contrast to the rigorous argumentative standards you apply to Bush critics.

    In fact, when I debated you over this, I drew the distinction -- as I've done with McCarthy -- between those who I feel are acting opportunistically and those who are true believers. Both are wrong, but one side is worse, in my estimation.

    Fair enough, you did draw that distinction, and my summary of your view papered over it, but you drew the distinction only by saying that the only way to hold this conviction (that Bush misled on WMDs) genuinely is by being completely misinformed and ignorant, such that nobody who is informed can possibly be making that accusation in good faith.

    So while that nuance is necessary to describe your argument accurately, it doesn't change the fact that you believe the "Bush deliberately misled" claim is over the line of decency when advanced by those who are not completely ignorant of the issues, while those who equate McCarthy to Hitler and wish him to burn in hell forever are simply "distasteful."

    For what it's worth, I think your (tepid, half-hearted) condemnation of those comments would be more meaningful, and more forthright, being made on your site where they can those responsible can hear it.

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  5. Anonymous7:38 PM

    Not even a nice try Jeff. I just read your post cited by Glenn. You did NOT confine your "Bad faith" accusations to people who had access to the intelligence. You smeared everyone who "know how intelligence works", meaning anyone who isn't ignorant about the process. Here is what you said in your own words:

    "Anyone who thinks Bush looked at his analysts’ reports and rejected them because he wanted to avenge Daddy or enrich his oil buddies is either terribly confused or purposely dishonest—blinded by their hatred for the President.

    Those who are confused aren’t unpatriotic; they are, however, ignorant on this point, and are earnestly playing the part of useful idiots. Those who do know how intelligence works—and yet continue to suggest that Bush lied or manipulated intelligence in order to take us to war—are more concerned with damaging the Bush presidency than they are with winning the war. "

    Go read your own post. You are now trying to narrow the category of people you accused of being unpatriotic way way more than you did then. That's progress, I guess, but you should admit what you are doing.

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  6. Anonymous9:49 PM

    I agree that Jeff's defense of his commenters is lame. However, his post about those who know how intelligence works and who nevertheless insist Bush lied, is correct, and well within the bounds of tough but decent political debate. It is ridiculous to compare such a position with consigning Eugene McCarthy (or anyone else who isn't an acolyte of Hitler or Stalin) to hellfire.

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  7. In fact, when I debated you over this, I drew the distinction -- as I've done with McCarthy -- between those who I feel are acting opportunistically and those who are true believers.

    What a pity your actions don't actually back up your sentiments expressed above, Jeff. While I was commenting at your blog, I demonstrated a couple of documented lies from Bush - but still got told that I had no proof Bush ever lied.

    And then you banned me because of some bogus claim that I called you, specifically, a racist.

    What a brave, brave man you are, Jeff...

    ReplyDelete