But beyond this gloating self-satisfaction, war bloggers have apparently decided that this election, and the reaction to it by war critics, proves once and for all that war critics realize now that they were wrong. Apparently, war critics didn't say enough about the elections yesterday, and this silence has not gone unnoticed! To the war bloggers, this proves that the war critics have lost the debate over the Iraq War and just can't face up to it, so they are pretending that the proof of their defeat -- this election -- simply doesn't exist.
This "idea" was first put forward yesterday by one pro-war blogger, Kevin the SoCal Pundit, who trumpeted the fact that "Liberal Blogs Choose Silence over Iraqi Elections." According to Kevin, this is because war critics want to see violence and death in the Middle East and so they can't stand when good things happen:
[A]ny sign of progress on peace in the Middle East plays poorly in the Leftosphere. . . .Meanwhile the Iraqi people, Coalition military and support forces as well as The White House have reason to gloat. The elections appear to be a smashing success. Regardless of who wins what in the end, FREEDOM and DEMOCRACY are the order of the day today. And screw the liberal blogs for not giving a damn.
This post unleashed an all-out orgy of pro-war taunting over this "silence." We were thus subjected to a run-down of non-Iraq issues which "liberal blogs" had the nerve to talk about yesterday instead and were then told how that proves that war critics only care about violence in Iraq ("Perhaps some sites are waiting for results. Or a really nasty explosion or something"). That was followed by a decree that war critics somehow "lost" yesterday ("BIG LOSERS of the day so far: Howard Dean, Jack Murtha, Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid and the rest of the reactionary, fuddy-duddy leadership of the Democratic Party"), which then gave rise to an uncontrollable infection of run-of-the-mill gloating -- all based on this same, ostensibly revealing silence.
Left unsaid amidst all of this sloganeering and melodramatic genuflecting to purple ink is what, exactly, these elections are supposed to have proven in the greater debate over the Iraqi War. Aside from the emotional manipulation which these elections afford – nobody raised in the U.S. and instilled with an appreciation for democracy can help but feel some pleasure for Iraqis as they vote to choose their leaders – exactly what arguments advanced by war critics are supposed to be undermined by these elections, and what pro-war justifications are bolstered? The answer is none.
Pictures of smiling Iraqis with purple ink on their fingers is no more of an "argument" in favor of the war than pictures of the incinerated corpses of Iraqi civilians is an "argument" against the war. Both tactics are equally crude and slothful attempts to emotionally manipulate rather than do the work of making substantive arguments. Anyone with doubts about this should see the wildly manipulative post of pro-war hero Captain Ed where he stands tall at high noon and proclaims: "Look the people with purple-stained fingers in the eye and tell them that. I double-dog dare you."
Pro-war bloggers are almost always silent whenever the latest Iraqi police station is blown up or guests at another Iraqi wedding party are slaughtered by American bombs. Why is that silence less revealing than the relative silence of war critics about the elections? George Bush recently revealed that he believes that 30,000 Iraqi civilians have lost their lives as a result of this war -- 30,000 Iraqi civilians dead-- and I don’t recall reading much in pro-war precincts about that. Is it a persuasive argument to say to pro-war advocates in response to their celebrations: "Look at the Iraqi civilians with the loved ones incinerated by U.S. bombs and tell them that. I double-dog dare you."
As moving as it may be to watch a country vote for the first time, causing that to happen is simply not why we went to war, spending billions upon billions of dollars and losing thousands of American lives (and counting) in the process. The fact is that bringing democracy to a country imprisoned by tyranny is not even close to being a sufficient rationale which justifies invading that country and waging war. And the dispositive proof of that proposition is the cliched but nonetheless true point that there is an endless list of countries suffering under a tyrannical hand and nobody (other than perhaps Mark Steyn and Michael Ledeen) thinks we should invade them all and change their governments. Indeed, many of those non-democratic tyrannies, including hardened dictators in the Middle East, are our allies and will continue to be for the foreseeable future.
What will determine whether this war was worth fighting is whether it advances the interests of the United States. That was the argument that sold this war to most Americans and to its Congress, and that is the reason we fought this war. The war’s purpose was not to help Iraqis; that was to be an incidental benefit used to take some of the hard edges off our invasion of a country which did not attack us, and the fact that we were taking out a reprehensible dictator was something which could be used to resolve doubts in favor of regime change if the question of whether to wage this war was otherwise a close call.
But the rationale for the war was not to help Iraqis. It was to help Americans -- by reducing or eliminating threats to American citizens and American interests. These elections say absolutely nothing one way or the other about whether we are moving towards, or away from, the central goal of this war.
Democratic elections are not inherently helpful to American interests. Elections are what produced the intensely anti-American Hugo Chavez in Venezuela, not to mention the Chancellorship of Adolph Hitler. Iran itself has had parliamentary elections -- some legitimate and some not, and yet it remains the greatest Middle Eastern threat to American interests.
What matters is not whether there are elections, but the type of government which those elections produce. No matter what else can be said about this war, nobody will be able to reasonably claim that the waging of this war was a prudent decision if Iraq ends up being governed by a Shiite cleric theocracy which is, in turn, loyal to and controlled by the Shiite mullahs in Iran. And yet that is not just a possibility at this point, but one of the likeliest outcomes of our invasion. Iran’s influence in Iraq’s internal affairs is vast and growing, and an election which is certain to hand the Iran-loving religious Shiite parties great power is hardly an antidote to that severe danger. The opposite is true.
Moreover, the January 30 elections -- which identically caused war bloggers to sneer that war critics "decided to mark this historic day by hiding under their bedcovers" -- did not make Iraq safer or more stable. Quite the contrary. Since that magical day in January, Shiite-Sunni sectarian tensions have worsened to the brink of a full-scale civil war; Al Qaeda’s new Iraqi branch launched its deadliest and most complicated terrorist attack in Jordan; government-sponsored death squads have become the norm; and, worst of all, America’s real enemy in that region, Iran, has increased and consolidated power inside Iraq. These elections yesterday would be rightfully celebrated if the January 30 elections had brought the U.S. closer to its goals in Iraq, but few people can claim that to be the case.
These elections are not an argument in the pro-war contingent’s favor. At best, they are a neutral (albeit emotionally satisfying) event which affords the opportunity to use symbols and manipulation in lieu of substance in order to try to prove that this war is turning out to be a good idea after all. But the election does no such thing. It does not reflect one way or the other on whether our occupation of Iraq is helping or hurting U.S. interests. All of the pro-war celebrations don't change that fact. It just obscures it for a few days.
Since that is the only real issue that matters in the ongoing debate over this war, it should not be a surprise that the only people yelling about these elections are the ones who want to dance around, cynically exploiting the emotions of yesterday, all in pursuit of some sort misplaced and unwarranted sense of vindication. The U.S. is no closer to achieving its goals in this war today than it was last week or last month, and there are compelling arguments to be made that it is, in fact, further away from those goals than ever.
Perfectly framed, and the irony here is that these war mongers have long known that THEY are losing, which is why they cling desperately to these irrelevant symbolic gestures in order to convince themselves that they did some good. It's really sad to watch, actually.
ReplyDeleteI wouldn't be as dismssive of the elections as you are. Just becausse I think they are going to try to use it against you to say you are cold-hearted or snide.
ReplyDeleteBut I do agree with you 100% that these elections don't help the US there, and probably just strengthen Iran's hand even more.
And these war bloggers dances are only about themselves, they don't care about Iraqis or US interests. They are just petrified of being on the wrong side of US history. At this point, who can blame them?
Aside from the emotional manipulation which these elections afford – nobody raised in the U.S. and instilled with an appreciation for democracy can help but feel some pleasure for Iraqis as they vote to choose their leaders – exactly what arguments advanced by war critics are supposed to be undermined by these elections, and what pro-war justifications are bolstered? The answer is none.
ReplyDeleteWell now, if that is not just about the most amusing thing I have read in about forever. Coming as it does from one who frequently -- and correctly -- goes on a tear about how a sanitized media withholds graphic footage, which it ought not do because a visceral response to reality can service truth and justice.
I cannot locate them quickly, but after the 1/30 elections in Iraq a few urbane folks published "confessions" that those elections made the liberal folks in the cocktail party circuit deeply uncomfortable, because the truth no one wanted to admit is that many in that crowd wanted the elections to fail. They wanted that because they want Bush to fail, and all those happy Iraqi faces holding up their ink-stained fingers made them feel guilty about their aspirations.
So, the pro-war bloggers are on to something about the silence; good news in Iraq -- which a free and successful election is on its own merits -- is not an event the anti-war left wants to pay much attention to. Let's have more discussion of body bags, or Abu Graib, but by all means elide right past those pesky photos of newly freed people exercising the franchise.
Glenn: at the outset of the war in Iraq, say two years ago, was it your position that even a democratic Iraq would not be an improvement over Saddam Hussein in terms of U.S. interests? Given what was then known about Saddam, his history of aggression, his harboring of terrorists who undertook the '93 WTC bombing, his attempt to assassinate a former U.S. President (is that not a rather consummate act of war?), and his total unwillingness to allow international inspection teams to determine the state of his WMD program, what would you have done?
Glenn: Susan E. Rice, Asst Sec'y of State under Clinton , argues that establishing democracies is necessary but not sufficient to protecting U.S. security interests. Rice says (my emphasis):
ReplyDelete"Democracy and freedom are universal human aspirations as well as wise policy objectives that we should actively pursue. Democratic states are less likely to go to war with one another and more likely to govern responsibly. "
Do read all of her remarks, some of which echo your own without the pooh-poohing pessimism about democracy.
Very well written, logical and 100% correct. The periodic waves of right-wing triumphalism notwithstanding, the most likely outcome in Iraq is still a Shiite dominated theocracy.
ReplyDelete...the only people yelling about these elections are the ones who want to dance around, cynically exploiting the emotions of yesterday, all in pursuit of some sort misplaced and unwarranted sense of vindication.
ReplyDeleteSilly me! What was I thinking when I thought free and fair elections was a reason to be jubilent. You freaking liberals just don't get it: Despotic rulers = BAD. Free and fair elections = GOOD. End of story.
Despotic rulers = BAD. Free and fair elections = GOOD.
ReplyDeleteWhich category does Hugo Chavez fall into? How about the 2000 Iranian Parliament? How about Adolph Hitler? How about a Shiite theocracy dancing to Iranian orders?
Are all of those GOOD because they were elected in free and fair elections?
The naivete is scary.
Let's have more discussion of body bags, or Abu Graib, but by all means elide right past those pesky photos of newly freed people exercising the franchise.
ReplyDeleteIs that why we want to war? As an act of charity?
Glenn: at the outset of the war in Iraq, say two years ago, was it your position that even a democratic Iraq would not be an improvement over Saddam Hussein in terms of U.S. interests?
Yes, that was my position. I didn't think Saddam was a threat to U.S. interests and I knew that a democratically elected government in a very religious Islamic country with a Shiite majority and a natural tendency to become a very strong ally of Iran could very well be.
Given what was then known about Saddam, his history of aggression, his harboring of terrorists who undertook the '93 WTC bombing, his attempt to assassinate a former U.S. President (is that not a rather consummate act of war?), and his total unwillingness to allow international inspection teams to determine the state of his WMD program, what would you have done?
In what universe did Saddam display a "total unwillingness to allow international inspection teams to determine the state of his WMD program"?
The inspectors were all over Iraq, and they were satisfied with their access. Before we invaded, it was becoming clear that the WMD hype was just that and that he was nowhere near having a nuclear capability. But we didn't want to wait to find that out precisely because finding it out would have revealed that Saddam was NOT a threat and would have ruined the little war they wanted to badly.
Despotic rulers = BAD. Free and fair elections = GOOD. End of story.
ReplyDeleteAnd how about the converse: some of our most reliable allies in the war on terror -- in Pakistan, Egypt, Jordan, and Saudi Arabi - are depostic rulers. Do you want "free and fair elections" in those countries? Do you think the results will turn out well for the U.S.?
And how about the converse: some of our most reliable allies in the war on terror -- in Pakistan, Egypt, Jordan, and Saudi Arabi - are depostic rulers. Do you want "free and fair elections" in those countries? Do you think the results will turn out well for the U.S.?
ReplyDeleteThis would be a good point if it were not so worn out. The Bush Administration has been ardent in its insistence that these regimes add human rights, voting, equality for women and people of other religions etc. in their countries and these nations have answered with real progress on these fronts. They realize that their very existence depends on creating a much more human rights-centric government. One thing that the War on Terror should show countries that do not have good human rights is that by refusing to do so results in of their regimes.
I don't even thing that this is a case of this particular liberal being an idiot but rather that all liberals are idiots by the fact that they refuse to see how the world has changed for the better. Afghan women vote and in fact liberals are at work in Afghanistan even as their buddies here in the U.S. say that the U.S. is not into human rights. It would be funny if it was not so dangerous.
Glenn posits delusions: The inspectors were all over Iraq, and they were satisfied with their access. Before we invaded, it was becoming clear that the WMD hype was just that and that he was nowhere near having a nuclear capability. But we didn't want to wait to find that out precisely because finding it out would have revealed that Saddam was NOT a threat and would have ruined the little war they wanted to badly.
ReplyDeleteWhat planet have you been living on? Where are the reports that the weapons inspectors were satisfied with their access and Saddam was in full compliance, so no need to fret? Where were the hues and cries -- in advance of the invasion -- that because the inspectors had that access, it was clear Saddam had no WMDs? What I do recall reading from war opponents, over and over, was that we still needed to "give sanctions a chance to work" -- but no serious suggestions that there was a reason to remove said sanctions because the inspectors were now satisfied. The left and others, at the time, were screeching, among other things, that our soldiers were going to be bombarded with all manner of grotesque weapons, and indeed our military prepared for that contingency.
I'm a well-read person who was full of trepidation in advance of the war, who came to support it late, and I missed all the evidence you seem to think exists that Saddam had given the access you claim he had. Do enlighten us all -- what did I miss?
Really, I am aghast that after 9/11 you would have let a belligerent like Saddam Hussein rest in peace. The man harbored terrorists -- if not of the Bin Laden AQ variety, other flavors -- and tried to assassinate one of our former presidents. For those reasons alone he needed to be fucked hard.
Finally, how in hell can anyone who cherishes freedom, as I know you do, not want to hold out hope for Iraq, and celebrate that a formerly oppressed people did something quite remarkable yeterday? You have no crystal ball, and it is hardly clear that all the shia in Iraq are that friendly with those in Iran; moreover, they will have to rule within a coalition of secular Kurds and Sunnis who despise Iran -- and some Sunnis are also quite secular.
A genuine democracy constitutes a good set of brakes on its leaders. (Please note that after Hitler was democratically elected, he promptly ended all legitimate elections or opportunities to oppose his will.)Hugo Chavez may be a Marxist who doesn't like the U.S., but he isn't going to declare war on us, and he does cooperate with us within limits. Chavez is only a serious problem for those who elected him. Putin is a thug who doesn't much like us either, but the fact that he does have to answer to his people is quite comforting.
So Glenn, what would the state of Iraq -- including its posture toward the U.S. -- have to be five years from now for you to agree that Bush's policy there was, in whole or in part, a success? Or perhaps there is no such state?
Glenn, with reference to this United Nations Security Council Resolution, passsed on November 8, 2002, is it your position that between that date, and Bush's March '03 demand that Saddam leave Iraq within 48 hours or face invasion, that this resolution had been complied with?(all emphasis mine):
ReplyDelete-----------------------------------------
The Security Council,
Recalling all its previous relevant resolutions, in particular its resolutions 661 (1990) of 6 August 1990, 678 (1990) of 29 November 1990, 686 (1991) of 2 March 1991, 687 (1991) of 3 April 1991, 688 (1991) of 5 April 1991, 707 (1991) of 15 August 1991, 715 (1991) of 11 October 1991, 986 (1995) of 14 April 1995, and 1284 (1999) of 17 December 1999, and all the relevant statements of its President,
Recalling also its resolution 1382 (2001) of 29 November 2001 and its intention to implement it fully,
Recognizing the threat Iraq’s non-compliance with Council resolutions and proliferation of weapons of mass destruction and long-range missiles poses to international peace and security,
Recalling that its resolution 678 (1990) authorized Member States to use all necessary means to uphold and implement its resolution 660 (1990) of 2 August 1990 and all relevant resolutions subsequent to resolution 660 (1990) and to restore international peace and security in the area,
Further recalling that its resolution 687 (1991) imposed obligations on Iraq as a necessary step for achievement of its stated objective of restoring international peace and security in the area,
Deploring the fact that Iraq has not provided an accurate, full, final, and complete disclosure, as required by resolution 687 (1991), of all aspects of its programmes to develop weapons of mass destruction and ballistic missiles with a range greater than one hundred and fifty kilometres, and of all holdings of such weapons, their components and production facilities and locations, as well as all other nuclear programmes, including any which it claims are for purposes not related to nuclear-weapons-usable material,
Deploring further that Iraq repeatedly obstructed immediate, unconditional, and unrestricted access to sites designated by the United Nations Special Commission (UNSCOM) and the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), failed to cooperate fully and unconditionally with UNSCOM and IAEA weapons inspectors, as required by resolution 687 (1991), and ultimately ceased all cooperation with UNSCOM and the IAEA in 1998,
Deploring the absence, since December 1998, in Iraq of international monitoring, inspection, and verification, as required by relevant resolutions, of weapons of mass destruction and ballistic missiles, in spite of the Council’s repeated demands that Iraq provide immediate, unconditional, and unrestricted access to the United Nations Monitoring, Verification and Inspection Commission (UNMOVIC), established in resolution 1284 (1999) as the successor organization to UNSCOM, and the IAEA, and regretting the consequent prolonging of the crisis in the region and the suffering of the Iraqi people,
Deploring also that the Government of Iraq has failed to comply with its commitments pursuant to resolution 687 (1991) with regard to terrorism, pursuant to resolution 688 (1991) to end repression of its civilian population and to provide access by international humanitarian organizations to all those in need of assistance in Iraq, and pursuant to resolutions 686 (1991), 687 (1991), and 1284 (1999) to return or cooperate in accounting for Kuwaiti and third country nationals wrongfully detained by Iraq, or to return Kuwaiti property wrongfully seized by Iraq,
Recalling that in its resolution 687 (1991) the Council declared that a ceasefire would be based on acceptance by Iraq of the provisions of that resolution, including the obligations on Iraq contained therein,
Determined to ensure full and immediate compliance by Iraq without conditions or restrictions with its obligations under resolution 687 (1991) and other relevant resolutions and recalling that the resolutions of the Council constitute the governing standard of Iraqi compliance,
Recalling that the effective operation of UNMOVIC, as the successor organization to the Special Commission, and the IAEA is essential for the implementation of resolution 687 (1991) and other relevant resolutions,
Noting the letter dated 16 September 2002 from the Minister for Foreign Affairs of Iraq addressed to the Secretary-General is a necessary first step toward rectifying Iraq’s continued failure to comply with relevant Council resolutions,
Noting further the letter dated 8 October 2002 from the Executive Chairman of UNMOVIC and the Director-General of the IAEA to General Al-Saadi of the Government of Iraq laying out the practical arrangements, as a follow-up to their meeting in Vienna, that are prerequisites for the resumption of inspections in Iraq by UNMOVIC and the IAEA, and expressing the gravest concern at the continued failure by the Government of Iraq to provide confirmation of the arrangements as laid out in that letter,
Reaffirming the commitment of all Member States to the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Iraq, Kuwait, and the neighbouring States,
Commending the Secretary-General and members of the League of Arab States and its Secretary-General for their efforts in this regard,
Determined to secure full compliance with its decisions,
Acting under Chapter VII of the Charter of the United Nations,
1. Decides that Iraq has been and remains in material breach of its obligations under relevant resolutions, including resolution 687 (1991), in particular through Iraq’s failure to cooperate with United Nations inspectors and the IAEA, and to complete the actions required under paragraphs 8 to 13 of resolution 687 (1991);
2. Decides, while acknowledging paragraph 1 above, to afford Iraq, by this resolution, a final opportunity to comply with its disarmament obligations under relevant resolutions of the Council; and accordingly decides to set up an enhanced inspection regime with the aim of bringing to full and verified completion the disarmament process established by resolution 687 (1991) and subsequent resolutions of the Council;
3. Decides that, in order to begin to comply with its disarmament obligations, in addition to submitting the required biannual declarations, the Government of Iraq shall provide to UNMOVIC, the IAEA, and the Council, not later than 30 days from the date of this resolution, a currently accurate, full, and complete declaration of all aspects of its programmes to develop chemical, biological, and nuclear weapons, ballistic missiles, and other delivery systems such as unmanned aerial vehicles and dispersal systems designed for use on aircraft, including any holdings and precise locations of such weapons, components, sub-components, stocks of agents, and related material and equipment, the locations and work of its research, development and production facilities, as well as all other chemical, biological, and nuclear programmes, including any which it claims are for purposes not related to weapon production or material;
4. Decides that false statements or omissions in the declarations submitted by Iraq pursuant to this resolution and failure by Iraq at any time to comply with, and cooperate fully in the implementation of, this resolution shall constitute a further material breach of Iraq’s obligations and will be reported to the Council for assessment in accordance with paragraphs 11 and 12 below;
5. Decides that Iraq shall provide UNMOVIC and the IAEA immediate, unimpeded, unconditional, and unrestricted access to any and all, including underground, areas, facilities, buildings, equipment, records, and means of transport which they wish to inspect, as well as immediate, unimpeded, unrestricted, and private access to all officials and other persons whom UNMOVIC or the IAEA wish to interview in the mode or location of UNMOVIC’s or the IAEA’s choice pursuant to any aspect of their mandates; further decides that UNMOVIC and the IAEA may at their discretion conduct interviews inside or outside of Iraq, may facilitate the travel of those interviewed and family members outside of Iraq, and that, at the sole discretion of UNMOVIC and the IAEA, such interviews may occur without the presence of observers from the Iraqi Government; and instructs UNMOVIC and requests the IAEA to resume inspections no later than 45 days following adoption of this resolution and to update the Council 60 days thereafter;
6. Endorses the 8 October 2002 letter from the Executive Chairman of UNMOVIC and the Director-General of the IAEA to General Al-Saadi of the Government of Iraq, which is annexed hereto, and decides that the contents of the letter shall be binding upon Iraq;
7. Decides further that, in view of the prolonged interruption by Iraq of the presence of UNMOVIC and the IAEA and in order for them to accomplish the tasks set forth in this resolution and all previous relevant resolutions and notwithstanding prior understandings, the Council hereby establishes the following revised or additional authorities, which shall be binding upon Iraq, to facilitate their work in Iraq:
– UNMOVIC and the IAEA shall determine the composition of their inspection teams and ensure that these teams are composed of the most qualified and experienced experts available;
– All UNMOVIC and IAEA personnel shall enjoy the privileges and immunities, corresponding to those of experts on mission, provided in the Convention on Privileges and Immunities of the United Nations and the Agreement on the Privileges and Immunities of the IAEA;
– UNMOVIC and the IAEA shall have unrestricted rights of entry into and out of Iraq, the right to free, unrestricted, and immediate movement to and from inspection sites, and the right to inspect any sites and buildings, including immediate, unimpeded, unconditional, and unrestricted access to Presidential Sites equal to that at other sites, notwithstanding the provisions of resolution 1154 (1998);
– UNMOVIC and the IAEA shall have the right to be provided by Iraq the names of all personnel currently and formerly associated with Iraq’s chemical, biological, nuclear, and ballistic missile programmes and the associated research, development, and production facilities;
– Security of UNMOVIC and IAEA facilities shall be ensured by sufficient United Nations security guards;
– UNMOVIC and the IAEA shall have the right to declare, for the purposes of freezing a site to be inspected, exclusion zones, including surrounding areas and transit corridors, in which Iraq will suspend ground and aerial movement so that nothing is changed in or taken out of a site being inspected;
– UNMOVIC and the IAEA shall have the free and unrestricted use and landing of fixed- and rotary-winged aircraft, including manned and unmanned reconnaissance vehicles;
– UNMOVIC and the IAEA shall have the right at their sole discretion verifiably to remove, destroy, or render harmless all prohibited weapons, subsystems, components, records, materials, and other related items, and the right to impound or close any facilities or equipment for the production thereof; and
– UNMOVIC and the IAEA shall have the right to free import and use of equipment or materials for inspections and to seize and export any equipment, materials, or documents taken during inspections, without search of UNMOVIC or IAEA personnel or official or personal baggage;
8. Decides further that Iraq shall not take or threaten hostile acts directed against any representative or personnel of the United Nations or the IAEA or of any Member State taking action to uphold any Council resolution;
9. Requests the Secretary-General immediately to notify Iraq of this resolution, which is binding on Iraq; demands that Iraq confirm within seven days of that notification its intention to comply fully with this resolution; and demands further that Iraq cooperate immediately, unconditionally, and actively with UNMOVIC and the IAEA;
10. Requests all Member States to give full support to UNMOVIC and the IAEA in the discharge of their mandates, including by providing any information related to prohibited programmes or other aspects of their mandates, including on Iraqi attempts since 1998 to acquire prohibited items, and by recommending sites to be inspected, persons to be interviewed, conditions of such interviews, and data to be collected, the results of which shall be reported to the Council by UNMOVIC and the IAEA;
11. Directs the Executive Chairman of UNMOVIC and the Director-General of the IAEA to report immediately to the Council any interference by Iraq with inspection activities, as well as any failure by Iraq to comply with its disarmament obligations, including its obligations regarding inspections under this resolution;
12. Decides to convene immediately upon receipt of a report in accordance with paragraphs 4 or 11 above, in order to consider the situation and the need for full compliance with all of the relevant Council resolutions in order to secure international peace and security;
13. Recalls, in that context, that the Council has repeatedly warned Iraq that it will face serious consequences as a result of its continued violations of its obligations;
14. Decides to remain seized of the matter.
Glenn, with reference to this United Nations Security Council Resolution, passsed on November 8, 2002, is it your position that between that date, and Bush's March '03 demand that Saddam leave Iraq within 48 hours or face invasion, that this resolution had been complied with?
ReplyDeleteLet's ask the inspectors themselves. Here's Hans Blix in a 2004 inteview:
"LEHRER: The prime minister elect of Spain said on Monday that the United States and Britain organized the war on Iraq with lies. From the standpoint of weapons of mass destruction, do you agree with that?
HANS BLIX: Well, they certainly advanced weapons of mass destruction as the decisive reason for going to war, and I think the evidence was rather weak at the time. We had heard in the autumn of 2002 that the alleged aluminum tubes, for instance, which were thought, alleged to be for making the centrifuges, were probably more likely to be for making a rocket. And in January 2003, we had performed quite a lot of inspections to sites which were given by intelligence and they had not shown any weapons of mass destruction, so we began to be doubtful.
And among the 700 inspections that we performed, none brought us any evidence of weapons of mass destruction. I warned the Security Council about that. Yet, there might have been other evidence and Colin Powell came before the Security Council and he brought some evidence, which we could not check. And I think that by now most of the evidence has fallen apart. . . . .
Well, if you had asked me in December 2002, what is your gut feeling, I would have said I'm not here to have any gut feelings. I'm here to inspect. But as we went into more inspections in January, then I became... and we didn't find any weapons, I became more skeptical. And of course when Mr. El Baradei of the IAEA reported that the famous contract on import of uranium oxide was a forgery, there was an accumulation of indications that evidence was shaky. So we became doubtful. At the time of the occupation we could not have said, excluded that there still were weapons of mass destruction; it was only a little later I think that that conclusion, I think, was clear."
Kevin Drum summed up his views pretty well, and I agree with this:
"We went to war in March 2003, and by that time UN inspectors had been combing Iraq for months with the help of U.S. intelligence. They found nothing, and an increasing chorus of informed minds was starting to wonder if perhaps there was nothing there. In response, President Bush and his supporters merely amped up their certainty that Saddam was hiding something."
By Hans Blix's own admission in his 1/27/03 report Saddam was not in compliance with the supossedly final demand and deadline set in UN Sec. Council Resolution 1441. A contemporaneous piece at at NRO said:
ReplyDelete... [Blix] reported some important discrepancies in the Iraqi disarmament effort, particularly 6,500 missing chemical bombs, "several thousands of chemical rockets" unaccounted for, 8,500 liters of wayward anthrax, a variety illegally manufactured, modified, or smuggled delivery systems — in short, everything you need to fight wars Saddam-style. He also described a pattern of Iraqi non-cooperation which itself constituted a violation of U.N. mandates.
How much more time, how many more breaches, was Saddam to be given? Was the U.S. supposed to remain marshaled for war to get Saddam to cooperate to the limited extent he finally did after 1441 was passed? At what point, when dealing with a creature like Saddam, who committed acts of war against us, does it make sense to simply remove him?
BTW, I can't get your Drum link to work, but I consider him a credible source even when I disagree with him.
I took a look at So-Cal Pundit's site. He's pro-war and pro-life! Ahh, the irony.
ReplyDeleteAlso, I looked for his biography, and I didn't see it. I wonder why he hasn't enlisted in the good fight. Afterall, isn't for
for DEMOCRACY.
Typo in the above post. Sorry. I meant to say, why hasn't SoCal Pundit enlisted in the good fight, since it's for DEMOCRACY?
ReplyDeleteYeah, right, I'm sure the women of Iraq will be bathing in the sunlight of Democracy for eons to come.