Along those lines, Scott Lemieux yesterday asks a question about the theories of Bush defenders with respect to violations of the 22nd Amendment (which limits a President to two terms in office) -- a question which is similar to the one I asked several days ago with regard to other assorted potential Governmental acts undertaken in the name of the war on terrorism (in a post to which many Bush defenders purported to respond, though none with an actual answer):
would . . . any of the large number of conservative pundits who have endorsed the Yooian theory that the President's Article II powers trump all other legal limits on the executive's authority where "national security" is involved, have any principled way of not supporting the legality of the President's actions if he decided that the 22nd Amendment was a luxury the country can't afford during the War on Terra?
After all, the Court used a similar logic to permit the President to engage in a clear violation of the 14th Amendment during WWII, and the most popular conservative blogger who writes a significant amount of original content has already written a book defending the decision. And that's the problem with this reasoning: there's no logical end to it. Even if we were to assume for the sake of argument that the President's illegal wiretaps haven't created any substantively major violations of civil liberties, the reasoning being used to pretend that they're legal is incredibly dangerous.
It is worth remembering, as Scott points out, that we don’t actually know who the Administration eavesdropped on as part of this still secret warrantless surveillance program, nor do we know how the information which the Administration acquired has been used. All we know about any of this is what the Administration, through a series of ever-changing, self-justifying excuses, has deigned to tell us. And what it has told us thus far has been glaringly contradictory.
When this warrantless eavesdropping was disclosed, George Bush first assured us that the eavesdropping was directed only to "people with known links to al Qaeda and related terrorist organizations" – an explanation which made absolutely no sense whatsoever, since FISA could have easily accommodated eavesdropping directed at such a targeted, narrow category of communications. It was immediately apparent that this explanation was false, because it simply made no sense as an explanation for why FISA was not complied with. Rather than mollify concerns over this secret and lawless eavesdropping, this insultingly incoherent explanation only inflamed those concerns.
That initial failure led the Administration to thereafter swing to the polar opposite explanation. Rather than the narrow, carefully calibrated eavesdropping which Bush initially claimed they were engaged in, the Administration began claiming, mostly through leaks, that it could not stay within the framework of FISA because eavesdropping was too widespread for FISA to accomomdate. They now claim that the NSA is engaged in a novel form of broad data-mining which involves sifting through everyone’s communications, thereby rendering the notion of FISA warrants -- like Geneva Conventions restrictions, prohibitions on torture, and due process for imprisoned American citizens -- nothing more than a quaint and obsolete remnant to be discarded in the name of our fear of terrorism.
What is so striking about this wildly shifting rationale for the Administration's violations of FISA is that, to Bush defenders, it doesn’t much matter what excuse is offered up. They cling to any rationale offered, and tout it in order to argue that their leader did nothing wrong. What has become readily apparent is that there is a sizable portion of the population – exactly what portion remains to be seen – which not only has no objection to the Administration (at least this Administration) engaging in wholesale invasion of the privacy of American citizens via lawless and oversight-less monitoring of our communications, but actually and affirmatively wants the Administration to do so -- and the more the better.
Thus far, the warrantless eavesdropping debate has proceeded on the assumption that the Bush Administration -- despite its mutually exclusive explanations -– has been candid about its objectives and its actions. The Administration claims that it only eavesdrops on Al Qaeda and then the debate becomes about whether such narrow eavesdropping is justified. Then the Administration changes its story and claims that it was engaged in a unique form of data-mining, and presto, even Administration opponents shift their debate to whether this sort of data-mining justifies the Administration’s violations of FISA. The blithe willingness to assume that there has been no abuse of the Administration’s secret, lawless eavesdropping power -- all because the Administration assures us that there has been no abuse -- is staggering.
But regardless of the ever-shifting rationale used to justify the Administration’s eavesdropping, the broader question is how much privacy Americans are willing – even eager – to cede to the Federal Government in the name of the "war against terror." I would be very interested in seeing polling results – or the responses of Bush-defending bloggers – to these questions:
Would you be in favor of having the Bush Administration order the NSA to monitor all of your telephone conversations, e-mails and computer communications without a warrant or any judicial oversight, as long they committed themselves to using the information only to prevent terrorist acts and to capture terrorists?
Would you be in favor of having the Bush Administration engage in random secret, warrantless searches of all houses and apartments ("sneak and peaks," where the resident is never aware of the searches) in order to find terrorist cells inside the United States?
Would you be in favor of having the Bush Administration place hidden cameras in homes of people it suspects of having some contact with terrorists, either intentionally or innocently, in order to monitor the activities inside those homes, provided it promises to use such monitoring only to combat and prevent terrorism?
As Lemieux points out, there is really no rationale for opposing such measures available to those who are defending the Administration’s secret, sweeping eavesdropping activities. That’s because to endorse the Administration’s warrantless NSA eavesdropping on American citizens is to embrace the notion that concepts of "privacy" against the Government are abstract and worthless when weighed against the need to maximize our security against terrorists. And Congressional or even constitutional limits on the powers of the President have to give way to the imperative of preventing terrorist attacks on the United States.
That is why the support for Bush’s lawless eavesdropping does not wane even as his justifications for it change. The pro-Bush support is not tied to any specific privacy-invading eavesdropping program. Instead, what they support is the disregarding of privacy protections altogether in pursuit of greater security -- on the grounds that privacy, for those who are doing nothing wrong, has no real value.
Lest anyone think that is hyperbole or a distortion of the position of the Bush defenders, many of them have been honest enough to come right out and say that this is what they are advocating. Here is Rush Limbaugh, preaching all-out, anti-privacy arguments to 20 million adoring Americans:
"Liberals and Democrats, Limbaugh claimed, are only opposed to this because they dont want anyone finding out what they’ve been up to. … What have you folks been doing that you so desperately want to keep hidden?"
And here is Federal Court of Appeals Judge Richard Posner, the day after he wrote a truly odious Washington Post Op-Ed recommending that the Government expand its warrantless surveillance to "innocent people" in America as well as suspected terrorists, making a prediction in an online chat regarding the willingness of Americans to cede to the Federal Government all privacy with regard to their communications:
I think it would be highly desirable to explain to the public the tradeoffs between security and privacy. Effective counterterrorism does entail some reduction in privacy. I don't think most people would mind the government's scrutinizing their conversations for information of potential intelligence value if they trusted the government not to misuse the information.
And here is regular Protein Wisdom commenter Smithy, expressing his bewilderment at what all this "privacy" fuss is about:
Frankly, the idea of widespread NSA surveillance is a non-issue. I couldn’t care less if the government listens to my phone conversations. I have nothing to hide. All someone who listened to my phone conversations would learn is that I love America and hate terrorists.
If people have nothing to hide, then they have nothing to fear as far as surveillance goes. It is only those anti-American elements—"peace" activists and the rest of the Michael Moore wing of the Democratic party—that are complaining about this. Perhaps it is because they are afraid that the government will learn what they are really up to.
Smithy’s formulation is a little crude perhaps, but not really different in substance from what most Bush defenders have been arguing in order justify Bush’s conduct. To them, privacy is an abstract, basically empty luxury which we can perhaps discuss in times of peace, but in times of war, it’s not something we can afford to demand. And if you’re not doing anything wrong, why would you care if the Bush Administration listens in on what you’re doing and saying? The Bush Administration should be listening to and watching everything and anyone it can monitor, because the more it knows, the safer it can make us. Who would be against that, unless you have something to hide, or unless you’re not "serious" about stopping terrorism?
Isn’t that ultimately what this debate is really about? There are those who don’t care if they have any privacy from the Government and there are those who do. And there are those who blindly trust the Bush Administration to do anything (torture, eavesdrop without warrants, incarcerate citizens without due process) because they ascribe with an almost religious fervor to the premise that the Administration is on their side -- the side of right and justice, the side of keeping us safe from The Terrorists -- and, thus, the more power the Administration has, the better.
The problem with the NSA eavesdropping debate thus far is that the focus has been on FISA and data mining and "inherent authority" instead of what the debate really is about – whether we are at the point where our fear of terrorism is really so consuming that we are willing to cede our privacy to the Administration and entrust virtually limitless power to it -- including the power to override the law -- in exchange for protection from Terrorists, and based on the Administration's promises that it won’t abuse this power. To see that this is what the debate really is about – and to see that Bush defenders are necessarily advocating notions this radical – all anyone has to do is listen to what they are saying.
There are no powers they are unwilling to have the Bush Administration acquire because they blindly trust the Administration to wield these powers for our own good, and without any real abuse. To them, concerns that the Administration will abuse unchecked powers come from, as Bill Kristol put it yesterday, a "fever swamp" of "paranoia." To be sane, rational and "serious" about terrorism, in their view, one must be eager to give the Bush Administration as much power as it can get, and to cede as much privacy and other anti-government safeguards as possible, on the ground that one can trust the Administration to use these powers for good.
Concerns that the Administration will abuse these powers render you paranoid and unserious. Trying to prevent the Administration from fighting the terrorists by invoking petty legal restrictions on its powers renders you a paranoid subversive. We don’t need privacy against the Government because the Government only wants to protect us, and privacy is only for those who are trying to conceal wrongdoing. Privacy is the friend of the criminal and the terrorist.
That is really what is ultimately at stake with this NSA eavesdropping scandal, whether or not that debate ends up being engaged.
Once you accept that the terrorists are the Ultimate Evil who want to Destroy Us. And Bush is the Ultimate Good who wants to save us. Then of course you will object to any attempts to limit Bush's power.
ReplyDeleteWhy would anyone want to limit the powers of Good in its battle against Evil -- unless, that is, you are rooting for Evil to triumph, or you don't realize that this is a battle of Good v. Evil?
Richard Posner says:
ReplyDeleteI don't think most people would mind the government's scrutinizing their conversations for information of potential intelligence value if they trusted the government not to misuse the information.
Posner wrote a book defending Bush v. Gore.
Unlike Posner, many of us lost our trust in the Supreme Court itself over that decision. And we lost what trust we might have had in the Bush people during the events surrounding that decision: when we found out that our new president's brother's election department had removed thousands of voters from the rolls as "felons" who had never committed any crime; when we saw the cleverly designed ballots used in Jewish and black neighborhoods; when we learned that the angry locals in Miami who shouted and banged on doors were actually Congressional aides sent down to close down the vote count.
We're supposed to trust this crew?
Not to mention the sleazy tactics used to win the primary in South Carolina against McCain. Not to mention the election of 2004, with its thousands of voter complaints, of long lines and vote-switching machines. And how about those exit polls, which showed that Kerry won nationwide and in key states? Academicians later wrote that the chance those polls were so wrong, and in that pattern, were vanishingly small.
We're supposed to trust them?
Their Senate AND House leaders are under criminal investigation. The top aides to both the president AND the vice president are under criminal investigation.
After their negligence in the face of Katrina, we should trust them? What about their failure to provide any protection to Baghdad's museum, libraries, hospitals, schools and people after destroying the city's infrastructure? We should trust that these careless people will somehow take care to safeguard our liberties while listening to our conversations?
I wouldn't have wanted Jimmy Carter to have the power to act outside the law, just on principle, even though I did indeed trust him as a man of integrity. But then, he never wanted to act outside the law.
Clinton said something once in a speech about power, about waking up in the morning, you know you can do all sorts of things, take shortcuts, but you know that some of it just wouldn't be right. So you refrain (anyone have the quote?).
Why hasn't Posner's name been bandied about for the SC yet? He's SUCH an apologist.
The first point is about Limbaugh-why has his attorney argued that his medical records are confidential and he has a right to privacy if he has nothing to hide?(Same argument)
ReplyDeleteSecond- the right wing bloggers expose why this is dangerous. They agree with Bush so therefore they have nothing to be afraid of. Those on the left disagree -so they should be worried. That's the whole point, isn't it? We are supposed to be a country where you are allowed to believe anything you want to, even racist things, and not be persecuted. We allow the free flow of ideas to grow and to allow everyone to feel that they're invested in our country. We shouldn't have to be afraid to think what we want.
Third- Would any of those on the right be willing to open up their e-mails and phone conversations to any democrat? Bush is a partisan elected official just like every other politician. If anything, this administration takes all things, including science, and makes it partisan. They are the last people that can be trusted to be acting as honest players.
And lastly, every person does and says things that they regret or want kept secret. I registered my car too late, my neighbor made a pass at me etc. All this information will now be in some person's hands, a partisan, who might want to embarass me. If anyone out there has nothing that they have ever done that wouldn't cause them some discomfort than I have yet to meet them.
Would any of those on the right be willing to open up their e-mails and phone conversations to any democrat?
ReplyDeleteI've been wanting to go around and find everyone on the Internet that has made this argument -- that the only people who care about privacy are people who have done bad things and want to hide them, and that the people who have done nothing wrong don't mind being monitored and eavesdropped on -- and I want to ask them to send me their e-mail address and password so I can go ahead and read through all of the e-mail they've sent and received.
If they've done nothing wrong, why would they object?
Mr. Greenwald, your analysis is excellent,as always, but I think you are missing a key point. Wiretapping of citizens is not about terrorism at all; it is about rooting out and crushing dissent, plain and simple. The Bushites and their supporters know this, and we know this from the recent revelations that the pentagon is spying on everyone from vegetarians to Quakers. By doing this, they are not only terrorizing the enemies of the state, but the enemies of their friends in industry.They don't mind if we know it, either. It's a tool for intimidation. Journalists who might be thinking of telling the truth about these people in a bold manner will think twice- what might the government know about them personally, and what will they do with this information? Food for thought.
ReplyDeleteConservative commentators love this situation, because they are all about being right,about winning, and if there is no one to challenge them, because they've been cowed into silence, so much the better. Same goes for the triumphalist NASCAR and NFL crowds of "Good Americans"
What can we do? Organize? They'll know what we're up to as soon as it begins,and infiltrate and neutralize any movements for change. We can blog all we want and blather on about freedom and the Constitution, but what does that really get us? It's not really a threat because mainstream Americans don't have much interest in "going down the rabbit hole" and knowing the truth of things. You see it has already virtually disappeared from msm discussion. This too, has passed.
If they've done nothing wrong, why would they object?
ReplyDeleteEmail can include communications with one's lawyer, one's spouse, one's therapist, or one's priest -- all of which is generally privileged. Yet, the govt is free to roam at will and intercept these? With no oversight?
I also would like to know how many defending Bush and making the argument that the innocent have nothing to worry about, would really go along with the logic of their "argument" taken to its conclusion.
I suppose the true test of the belief that the Executive has the authority to ignore the law is whether or not the Powerline bloggers et al would be willing to allow a Democratic President (especially a Hillary Clinton) to have this authority. I have yet to see this question posed, and I have to admit, I'm curious to see their response.
ReplyDelete"Smithy" is the construct of a lefty troll who is trying to satirize what Righties actually believe.
ReplyDeleteThat you chose him as representative of my commenters speaks more to the cartoonish understanding of our position by many on the left than it does our actual position.
That, I confess, is a bit horrible, but what saves me here (and what makes your accusation plainly invalid) is the fact that there are others - like Rush Limbaugh and Richard Posner, to name just a couple luminaries -- who are saying exactly what this satirical character is saying. What that really means is that the people who share your view of things seem to be incapable of being caricatured.
and I want to ask them to send me their e-mail address and password so I can go ahead and read through all of the e-mail they've sent and received
ReplyDeleteYou are not a member of the FBI or NSA, sot that is preposterous. I have no problem with giving law enforcement officials free reign over my email.
Why Jeff Goldstein insists on calling me a left-wing troll I do not know. He and I are in agreement on most things, but he seems to hate those who surpass him in their conservatism.
I am amazed that one person can paralyze so many people with fear that he can manipulate them into gladly giving away all of their freedoms.
ReplyDeleteBush cannot "save" you nor "protect" you. He is not the second coming of Christ.
He is power mad and I'm sure he relishes the power he wields over so many that causes them to cower in fear and beg for his protection.
This god has clay feet. Do not be played by this false god for you will one day regret it.