Tuesday, January 17, 2006

The Administration's NSA playbook is empty (updated)

It’s been more than a month since The New York Times first disclosed the existence of Bush’s illegal NSA eavesdropping program. One would think that the Administration by now has developed all of the defenses and justifications for this program which exist.

If last night’s CNN interview by Larry King of Attorney General Alberto Gonzalez is any indication, there simply are no justifications for it. The Administration is still incapable of answering the very first question which arose when this eavesdropping was first disclosed: why couldn’t the Administration comply with the extremely permissive provisions of FISA when eavesdropping? This CNN interview also demonstrates that the country’s most prominent "journalists" are still incapable of asking any probing or meaningful questions of our Government with regard to this scandal:

KING: General, isn't there a happy medium? Isn't there a way to get quickly to a judge who signs off on a warrant to tap or listen in? Isn't there a way to do that quick?

GONZALES: Larry, whenever you involve another branch of government in an activity regarding electronic surveillance, inherently it's going to result in some cases in delay. Perhaps in straightforward cases we can get authority relatively quickly but not all of these cases are straightforward and it's very, very important that the president has the agility and the speed to gather up electronic surveillance of individuals that may be in contact with the enemy.

Unbelievably, both King’s question and Gonzalez’s answer are predicated on the assumption that FISA prohibits eavesdropping until a warrant is obtained from the FISA court. Larry King is apparently unaware that FISA allows the Administration to begin eavesdropping immediately without a warrant, and they therefore don't need "to get quickly to a judge who signs off on a warrant to tap or listen in."

As a result, King was incapable of following up on Gonzalez’ answer by asking the painfully obvious question: since FISA allows for immediate warrantless eavesdropping, in what conceivable way does it fail to provide the "agility and the speed" to eavesdrop? (And had King managed to pose that question, he also could have asked: if FISA was inadequate, why didn’t the Administration seek changes to it from the GOP-controlled House, rather than simply deciding to violate it in secret?).

It appeared from the beginning of this scandal -- and it has now become unavoidably true -- that there is something deeply dishonest going on here. It’s axiomatic that if someone provides a completely incoherent reason for why they did something, they’re not disclosing their real motive. The need for "speed" in eavesdropping is plainly not why the President ordered FISA to be violated, because FISA expressly allows for immediate eavesdropping, and it doesn’t get any speedier than "immediate."

We still don’t know why the Administration broke the law here, what motive it had in refusing to comply with FISA. There don’t seem to be that many possibilities. It could be that the President simply believed that he should not be required to get permission from a court to eavesdrop on whomever he wants. It could be that the Administration wanted to install its theory of the President’s wartime law-breaking powers. And it could be that the Administration wanted to eavesdrop for reasons which the FISA court would not endorse.

What is clearly the case, as demonstrated by Gonzalez’s answer, is that whatever the Administration’s motives were for violating FISA, we have not yet learned what they are. In lieu of real answers to these questions, the Administration still thinks that it can get away with treating Americans, and our journalists, like idiots, by having Gonzalez say things like this:

We need to know who the enemy is. We need to know what the enemy is thinking. We need to know where the enemy is thinking about striking us again. And so
absolutely, this president is going to utilize all the tools that are available to him to protect this country and I think the American people expect that of the president of the United States, who is the only public official charged, not only with the authority with the duty of protecting all Americans.

And this:

And so, as the president said if someone in the United States, if you're an American citizen and you're talking to al Qaeda, we want to know why. I think it's very, very important that we know about communications that are occurring within the United States to folks outside the United States that may be affiliated with al Qaeda.

We know that on the attacks, with respect to the attacks on September 11th, we had the enemy here in our country and they obviously communicated with each other in order to initiate those attacks and that's why it's so very, very important that we have electronic surveillance of communications involving the enemy.

Whenever the Administration is asked why it violated the law, it spews out tributes to the Great Importance of Eavesdropping. Larry King is incapable of understanding this, but the issue is not whether the Administration should eavesdrop. Can’t journalists ingest the simple fact that whenever someone who is defending the Administration starts talking about the merits of eavesdropping, that is a loud and immediate signal to whatever journalist is being fed that rhetoric that the person is evading, not addressing, the issue?

This is not a hard point to understand. Everyone agrees we should eavesdrop. We all want eavesdropping on terrorists. That’s why a law exists which allows such eavesdropping, provided that it’s done with judicial oversight so that the Administration can’t abuse this power. Larry King doesn’t understand this distinction but Americans will, once Bush opponents articulate it clearly.

Gonzalez also wanted to assure us that there is no reason to have anything like a Special Prosecutor investigate the legality of the President’s conduct because a team of excellent, highly skilled lawyers has already looked at that conduct and concluded that everything was perfectly legal:

KING: Back to former Vice President Gore asking for a special counsel to investigate, would you object to that?

GONZALES: Well, I don't know why -- I don't know why there would be a need for a special counsel at this time, Larry, because what I can tell you is that from the very beginning, from its inception this program has been carefully reviewed by the lawyers at the Department of Justice and other lawyers within the administration and we firmly believe that the president does have the legal authority to authorize electronic surveillance in order to gather up foreign intelligence particularly, Larry, when we're talking about foreign intelligence of the enemy in a time of war.

Why would Al Gore possibly want a Special Investigator to examine the legality of George Bush’s conduct when George Bush’s own lawyers in the Justice Department already looked at it and said it was fine? Besides, when it comes down to it, says the U.S. Attorney General, legalities, shmegalities - "we're talking about foreign intelligence of the enemy in a time of war." That is the only defense the Administration has.

Finally, there was this odd exchange:

KING: Are you assuring that American citizens with nothing to hide have nothing to worry about?

GONZALES: Well, again, as the president indicated, and I'm only talking about what the president described to the American people in his radio address, we're talking about communication where one end of the communication is outside the United States and where we have reason to believe that a party on that communication is a member of al Qaeda or is a member of an affiliate group with al Qaeda.

King asked Gonzalez whether innocent Americans "have nothing to worry about" in terms of eavesdropping by the Government, and Gonzalez -- in claiming that it’s only Al Qaeda whom we’re eavesdropping on -- went out of his way to limit his assurances by saying that he’s "only talking about what the president described to the American people in his radio address." That would seem to suggest that there is eavesdropping on Americans outside of "what the President described to the American people in his radio address." What was Gonzalez referring to there? (And it's always worth noting that if we're only eavesdropping "where we have reason to believe that a party on that communication is a member of al Qaeda or is a member of an affiliate group with al Qaeda," then it becomes that much more difficult to explain why FISA warrants couldn't have been obtained for such eavesdropping).

The real point which emerges from this whole interview is this: the Administration can defend its law-breaking only with evasions and distractions. Its only tactic for justifying its conduct is to make irrelevant appeals to the need to "protect the American people" by eavesdropping which is clearly not a justification at all. That is why it is so imperative for Bush opponents to speak loudly, clearly and relentlessly on this issue. Once Americans understand that the Administration can eavesdrop on Al Qaeda to its heart’s content in compliance with the law -- and that everyone, including Bush opponents, wants full-fledged eavesdropping on Al Qaeda --Americans will want to know the real reason for the Administration's decision to break the law and to eavesdrop on Americans in secret.

UPDATE: As for the misleading claim advanced by Gonazalez and Bush followers in the blogosphere that "Clinton did it, too," Think Progress makes clear just how frivolous that argument is.

36 comments:

  1. Anonymous11:15 AM

    Democrats haven't been able to break through this national seceurity rhetoric bullshit yet. You are optomistic that they can here, but I'm not so sure. As long as Bush presents himself as the Daddy Protector, I'm not sure if Americans will really care what rules he breaks.

    The more you scare people, the less they care about stuff like this.

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  2. Anonymous11:30 AM

    Administration apologists dance around the seemingly known unknown of who in America is talking to al-Qaeda. That explains why Mr. Bush authorized warrantless eavesdropping. Thus, apparently, from the slip o' the tongue here and there, the NSA is fishing for connections through the widespread collection of data through international communications gateways and, if they strike paydirt, then it debates whether or not to seek a FISA warrant. The determinant appears to be how plausible the connection is without revealing the existence of the heretofore secret eavesdropping program. Hence, the constant dribble about captured pocket litter and interrogation information. It's the data mining stupid. FISA warrants are predicated on the presumption of knowing the specific target not the wholesale collection of systems.

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  3. Anonymous12:26 PM

    Here's a possiblity: that the "wiretapping" is not wiretapping in any conventional sense. Suppose the NSA records *everything*, every call, every email and archives it. That (according to some estimates) would cost about $200 million/year. Then they datamine everything, and when they find something "interesting" they can "look back" and listen/read every convo between interested parties. This would explain the huge "taps" reported by the NYT and the reluctance to talk about what they're doing.

    I don't think a FISA Judge would look too kindly on a warrant on everyone.

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  4. Anonymous12:39 PM

    As for the misleading claim advanced by Gonazalez and Bush followers in the blogosphere that "Clinton did it, too," Think Progress makes clear just how frivolous that argument is.

    It isn't frivolous, unless you think "mere" violations of the 4th Am are that. Further, a former member of the Clinton DoJ, John Schmidt, has defended what Bush is doing. One might reasonably suspect there is a reason for that.

    Whether Clinton did or did not violate FISA, he loudly claimed he had tons of "inherent authority" to violate the 4th Am, and those theories would certainly seem to coherently extend to violating FISA had he thought it "necessary," as Mr. Schmidt believes to be the case. And, again, Clinton did violate the 4th Am, along with other civil liberties, in spades.

    This whole debate is not, ultimately, between the GOP and the Democrats. As Gore himself noted yesterday, the power of the Executive branch began accumulating long ago. In trying to make sense of why a liberal Democrat like Cass Sunstein would defend what Bush is doing, I surmise it results from his having been in the Carter DoJ -- Carter did not like FISA, which was enacted while he was in office.

    In my strong view, the only way the NSA matter is going to addressed and resolved, is if the Legislative branch members -- regardless of party affiliation -- stand up for their institution as a coequal branch of govt. And that isn't, or should not be, a matter of party partisanship.

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  5. Whether Clinton did or did not violate FISA, he loudly claimed he had tons of "inherent authority" to violate the 4th Am, and those theories would certainly seem to coherently extend to violating FISA had he thought it "necessary," as Mr. Schmidt believes to be the case.

    There is an enormous difference - fundamental, actually - between (a) claiming that the Executive has the inherent power to eavesdrop and (b) doing so in violation of the law - just as there is a fundamental difference between (a) adopting "regime change" on paper as your foreign policy and (b) invading a country with 150,000 trops in order to achieve it.

    If the Clinton Administration had violated FISA, that would be one thing (I'm not sure what it would be exactly, since that would hardly justify the Bush Administration doing so). But the Clinton Administration hasn't violated FISA, and nobody claimed that it did. So these equivalency attempts, aside from being irrelevant, are also just wrong.\

    The issue here is not that the Bush Administration claimed a power. It's that they exercised that power in violation of the law. Unless the Clinton Administration did that, too, it's hard to see what the argument even is.

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  6. Anonymous1:00 PM

    Do you not see violating the 4th Am as violating the law?

    There has to be a reason why men like Schmidt and Sunstein are defending Bush, and it surely isn't because their hearts go pitter-patter for Bush and the GOP. It may be the case that only Bush has directly violated FISA, but presidents before him announced the claimed authority to contravene Congress if they felt it necessary per their "inherent authority." These theories are not new to the Bush administration, which is why you are seeing them endorsed by former members of Democratic DoJs.

    And Clinton (or Gore) didn't seem too bothered by international laws against rendition and torture, as wiki shows.

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  8. Gonzalez was also on Hannity and Colmes. I was particularly struck by his answer to why there is no need for an investigation, which basically amounted to him saying "we don't need an investigation because its not illegal because we don't think its illegal"

    Also kind of interesting, I just got around to reading Woodward's Bush at War and there is a section where Woodward describes how during a conversation with Pakistan's president that Bush had recently become "fascinated" with the NSA's ability to listen in on phone calls. Woodward writes:

    Bush summarized his strategy: "Listen to every phone call and close them down and protect the innocent."

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  9. Anonymous1:21 PM

    Hypatia would have us believe that the Clinton administration was violating the 4th amendment and the Republican Congress didn't bother to add that to the Articles of Impeachment. That's so absurd that I don't even know where to begin to debunk it.

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  10. Anonymous1:28 PM

    Additionally: I make the same arguments -- about Democratic Administrations either lacking clean hands similarly to Bush, or having internally endorsed this expansive "inherent authority" argument -- in venues where I am defending myself to other Bush voters who feel I've "gone civil libertarian moonbat" on the NSA matter. They have been throwing Sunstein and Schmidt in my face and asking: Where are all the voices of condemnation from Clinton and his DoJ staff? As I've told them, and said here, I believe they and others are missing the nature of the partisanship involved; it is Executive v. Legislative.

    That explains the public defense of Bush by Schmidt and Sunstein, and the otherwise odd silence by so many other Dem DoJ members. I'm sure they'd love to make partisan hay out of this, if they could, so why aren't they? Where are the loud declarations that they never did, and never would have done, anything like what Bush has done?

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  11. Anonymous1:32 PM

    Hypatia would have us believe that the Clinton administration was violating the 4th amendment

    He was, and worse. See my link to (and excerpt from) the '97 Cato assesment in the Bush supporters are not conservatives thread. Cato has been equally harsh on the NSA eavsdropping matter.

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  12. Anonymous3:16 PM

    Tell you what, hypatia. I fully support impeaching Bill Clinton and removing him from office for his violations of the Bill of Rights. Now, some legal scholars (and our resident trolls) keep harping on how the President's warrantless searches are Constitutional. If they're Constitutional, then so was the Ames action. The primary issue is the flouting of a statute that has not been declared unconstitutional (except by the Bush administration and their willing puppets here). The Ames search did not violate FISA. FISA was amended in 1995 to cover physical searches, and signed by President Clinton. When Ms. Gorelick asserted that the Ames search was Constitutional, I think she was wrong. But FISA was not violated. When the pseudo-conservative trolls declare by fiat that the President's massive warrantless wiretapping is Constitutional, I think they're wrong. But FISA was violated. This is the key distinction.

    --mds

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  13. Anonymous3:19 PM

    The name of that show has been changed. Due to the tough nature of Larry's questions, the show is now known as Larry King: Live and Let Live

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  14. Anonymous3:26 PM

    mds writes: When Ms. Gorelick asserted that the Ames search was Constitutional, I think she was wrong. But FISA was not violated. When the pseudo-conservative trolls declare by fiat that the President's massive warrantless wiretapping is Constitutional, I think they're wrong. But FISA was violated. This is the key distinction.

    It is a distinction, but again, Clinton did some abominable things in terms of civil liberties, and the fact is, until Gore, there had either been defense of Bush from former DoJ members of Clinton and Carter administrations, or odd silence. Why?

    And after Gore's speech, where are Bill, and Hillary -- and members of Bill's DoJ -- to say "damn straight!"

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  15. Anonymous3:40 PM

    until Gore, there had either been defense of Bush from former DoJ members of Clinton and Carter administrations, or odd silence. Why?

    Sadly true. That's one of the problems with electing a moderate southern Republican as a Democrat. It's also interesting that there has been outcry from former Reagan administration staffers (e.g., Fein). When a supposedly conservative Republican administration is defending itself by saying "Clinton did it too!", and Clinton administration officials aren't lining up in condemnation (only to be smeared as out-of-touch partisans with peculiar personal habits if they tried, of course), yet Reagan-era staff, Bob Barr, and even Sam Brownback have misgivings, something has gone seriously off the rails.

    And after Gore's speech, where are Bill, and Hillary -- and members of Bill's DoJ -- to say "damn straight!"

    They're waiting for the polls, as always. This sort of thing is one of the reasons I would be unhappy if Senator Clinton runs for the Presidency. On the other hand, I would probably vote for Gore again. (My days of voting for McCain in a primary are over, given that he's defended the administration's violation of FISA. He'll not get my general election vote, either. Wait, unless Senator Clinton is the Democratic nominee. Oh, hell, this democratic republic thing is more complicated than I'd thought.)

    --mds

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  16. Anonymous3:50 PM

    Where are Bill and Hilary, indeed.

    I remember a few years ago hearing on NPR (probably) parts of a speech where President Clinton talked rather candidly about being in a position of so much power, and how you know there are so many things you could do, but you refrain, because it wouldn't be right.

    I'm not arguing that he always behaved in line with his own words - but he was at least aware of the issue (that power can go to your head and you need to be careful) enough to articulate it well. I looked for this by googling, but couldn't find it - does anyone else remember this and know where to find the exact text?

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  17. Anonymous3:56 PM

    It's all fine and well to argue that because Clinton did it Bush could do it too. I used that argument all the time when my mother caught me up to mischief.

    Mr. Gore was right and proper to demand an independent investigation into the matter. While they are at it, they ought look into internment and torture--you know, un-American activities.

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  18. Anonymous4:17 PM

    I gather that Hypatia is granting that Bush is an autocratic thug who would happily dissolve Congress if he could - he or she just believes that Clinton was bad too. Well, I think Wilson did some horribly unconstitutional things too, but can we focus on the present, the here and now, the "Bush is saying RIGHT NOW that he can violate the constitution, the laws, the courts?!?" Isn't that a little more pressing than the academic "Bubba did it too" b.s.?

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  19. Anonymous4:29 PM

    All: I am not arguing that Bush gets off "because Clinton did it, too." Simply, I don't find claims that Clinton also played fast and loose with civil liberties to be "frivolous."

    Really, altho I voted for Bush in '04 (but not in '00), I am neither a Republican nor Democrat, and if any ideology controls my loyalties it is libertarianism. Both parties deeply offend my core principles, albeit not always in the same ways or to the same degree. More pertinently, it is a mistake to regard the politics of the NSA program as ultimately a Dem v. GOP fight, because otherwise that leaves inexplicable some liberal Democrats who have defended Bush in the matter, and others who are not speaking out. Once the problem is understood as a war between the branches of government, these Democratic voices (or their lack) make sense.

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  20. Anonymous5:16 PM

    Absolutely. indeed, that was half the point of Gore's speech, he said over and over that this was not a party issue; and why Barr was involved.

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  21. Anonymous5:44 PM

    speed? agility? is this guy talking about a president or a cheetah? make that "cheater!"

    http://blogdebogs.blogspot.com/2006/01/gonzo-dodges-and-dances.html

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  22. Anonymous6:16 PM

    Guess you'd have to call me a left-libertarian but I'd step up to take Hypatia's side here. Clinton was no prize on civil liberties. I was outraged at the time over the way he took advantage of the Oklahoma City bombing to expand Executive Branch police powers in ways that bore little relationship to the circumstances of the bombing itself.

    I'm perfectly willing to accept the proposition that this trend has been pursued by a sequence of presidents of both parties. That just drives home the point that at some point you have to start yelling STOP or end up living in a police state. I'd say we're pretty far over that threshold now.

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  23. Anonymous6:20 PM

    Whether congress can deal with Bushco's usurpation of our Constitution remains to be seen. Given Rethuglican control of the House of Unrepentant and the Seenot it is doubtful.

    I therefore have an idea for you: We know that the NSA is conducting an illegal operation to spy on Americans using sophisticated "recognition" software to lock onto calls or emails containing certain key words. Data mining.

    The only way any citizen can combat an illegal program such as this is by civil disobedience, SO IMAGINE WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF ALL AMERICANS, COUNTRY-WIDE, BEGAN USING TRIGGER WORDS IN EVERY TELEPHONE CALL THEY MAKE OR RECEIVE? The system would soon be overwhelmed by far too many "hits" for them all (or perhaps ANY) of them to be further investigated, potentially destroying the usefulness of the illegal program.

    So what if every liberal blog, or any others believing Bushco has gone too far, asked ALL THE VISITORS to their site to include certain trigger words IN EVERY CONVERSATION THEY HAVE WITH ANYONE.

    You know, words like: Osama bin Laden, jihad, dirty bomb, nuclear material, anthrax, chemical weapons, Zarqawi, Allah akbar, infidels, Iran mullahs, and everything else the readers could come up with. Perhaps even run a contest for your readers to add to the probable list that would "flag" their number for further investigation. The sheer numbers, if we could pull this off, would render it impossible or impractical for the program to continue.

    I am sick of our Imperial President and his constant violations of the law and the erosion of my civil rights. It is time, in my opinion, to demonstrate to Bushco that this IS a government by, for, and of the People. This could perhaps be engineered into the greatest single act of civil disobedience in history.

    What do you think? Do we stand by and gripe, or do we take action?

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  24. Anonymous6:26 PM

    I was outraged at the time over the way he took advantage of the Oklahoma City bombing to expand Executive Branch police powers in ways that bore little relationship to the circumstances of the bombing itself.

    My sense-of-the-surreal moment was Janet Reno announcing at a press conference that the Waco rampage against the Koresh compound was justified because there were reports of child abuse going on in there. So, now the DoJ, BATF and FBI-- rather than the Waco PD and local Child Protective Services -- enforce TX laws against child abuse?

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  25. Anonymous6:27 PM

    Oops. That anon on Reno/Waco was me.

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  26. Anonymous6:46 PM

    To Bill Arnett:

    Instead of posing the question "Do we stand by and gripe, or do we take action", given the content of your post, perhaps it would be more accurate to pose the question:

    "Do we stand by and gripe or attempt something that will not work to achieve its intended goal, but will work to make the leftnuts look even more anti-USA, anti-defense, anti-national security, and pro Al Qaeda/Islamofascist all at the same time"

    I'm sure you will still get just as many leftnuts to sign up for your program, maybe more.

    Says the "Dog"

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  27. Anonymous6:56 PM

    Steve, interesting question about letters marque and reprisal.

    I'm no expert but weren't letters of marque and reprisal issued to private parties/mercenaries as opposed to the standing armed forces of the USA?

    I'm not sure of the answer on that.

    Iraq was definitely involved in harboring and giving aid to Al Qaeda, even though no unclassified info is available that shows Iraq was directly involved in the specific 9/11 attack. Therefore, Iraq still qualifies under the AUMF.

    Gary

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  28. Anonymous and Steve,

    I think you are correct when you say "the NSA records *everything*, every call, every email and archives it" as I understand it that is exactly what the system is designed to do. This would be an automated process, not intended to target any specific person.

    It seems to me that the privacy concerns would arise only when individual telephones or computers are flagged for further surveillance and screening by human beings.

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  29. Anonymous10:50 PM

    From the New York Times piece: "In other cases, lists of phone numbers appeared to result from the agency's computerized scanning of communications coming into and going out of the country for names and keywords that might be of interest."

    What they are doing is scanning anything and everything that come into or goes out of the country. How do you get warrants for that many intercepts? No wonder Congress wouldn't approve!

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  30. Anonymous11:01 PM

    Steve you are confusing a couple of things. The Constitution contemplates by its terms BOTH a well regulated (i.e. well supplied and well equipped with the same arms as the standing army) militia and a standing army. The president is commander in chief of all forces not just the militia. The fact that the president controls the armed forces and can if needed to protect and defend the country into armed conflicts of a limited nature without a declaration of war is based upon 200 plus years of precedent that the President has this authority. Congress however can stop our forces participation in any conflict simply by refusing to appropriate the money to maintain the troops in the conflict. As long as Congress funds the engagement they are by their actions of funding approving of it, whether Congress says they approve it or not.

    The war on terror is not indefinite, as some incorrectly claim. It can be declared over at any time by Congress, and Congress can enforce that declaration by refusing to appropriate money to fund participation in the war on terror.

    Finally, for constitutional purposes the AUMF is a declaration of war even though the Congress is always desperate not to use that word.

    Says the "Dog"

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  31. Anonymous3:32 AM

    Steve asks:

    Can I tell him where the constitution mentions a standing army, and then provides later in that same post the following quote:

    Section 2. The President shall be commander in chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the militia of the several states, when called into the actual service of the United States...



    The answer Steve is contained in the quote you provided in your own message.

    Just Diagram the sentence(s) in that quotation.

    Loosely diagramed (and I'm sure my classifications and terminology will not be perfect but):

    The subject of the sentence is "the President"

    the verb of the sentence is "is"

    the predicate of the sentence is "Commander in Chief"

    then there are TWO PREPOSITIONAL phrases that specify what the President is Commander in Chief of and then the phrases are followed by a parenthetical clause that applies ONLY to the SECOND of the TWO PREPOSITIONAL phrases.

    So, the President is the Commander in Chief OF BOTH:

    1. The Army and the Navy of the United States (that Steve is the standing Army of the constitution to which I referred); and

    2. The militia of the various states, but only if that militia has been called up (federalized we sometimes say) for service to the United States.

    We know the called up part only applies to the militia for several reasons: 1. That's the clear structure of the sentence; and 2. The militia of each state is subject to the command of the Governor of that State and NOT the President, unless the militia has been called up to serve the United States.

    In modern language the National Guard is one element of a state's militia, and the National Guard is commanded solely by the Governor of the state to which it belongs. If the National Guard is called up to active duty for the United States however, then AND ONLY THEN do they become commanded by the President.

    So as I previously said the President is the Commander in Chief always every day of the standing Army and Navy (which today also includes the Air Force and Marines and I guess the Coast Guard). During those times when a state's national guard has been called up to active USA duty the President is Commander in Chief of them as well.

    Says the "Dog"

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  32. Anonymous2:14 PM

    Asserting that law has been broken without having evidence that a law has been broken, the ACLU today filed the first in a series of lawsuits under which an organization formed ostensibly to protect the civil liberties of Americans seeks to undermine those civil liberties by making them coequal to the liberties of agents of foreign powers who attempt to appeal for our liberties by mimicking our legal status under classifications based on geographical situatedness.
    the reason it “has not been seen since the days of Richard Nixon” is that it has not happened since the days of Richard Nixon—at least not under the Bush administration (though the ACLU has made no mention of filing retrospectively against the Clinton administration or Chuck Schumer). The fact is, we’re now dealing with a Republican President, and that changes everything. So the simple suggestion that his administration has broken the law—a suggestion that is based on his administration’s (and the counsels of other agencies, such as the DoD and NS) legal assertions that it is within their power under AUMF and, by extension, a FISA Court exemption to engage in foreign surveillance without a warrant under limited scenarios wherein at least one end of the conversation takes place overseas—is enough to “demand hearings.” Guilty until proven innocent, screams the new righteous party of McCarthyism.
    the case will be thrown out for no standing; simply being listened to—or rather, simply asserting that your paranoid fear of having your overseas calls to specified locales monitored by the NSA, who role it is to gather signal intel, is not grounds for a suit, and SCOTUS is notoriously reluctant to enter into battles that boil down to a tug of war over the separation of powers. In what ruling we do have, we already know that the NSA most certainly can acquire that information, specifically if the American isn’t the target; and so the lawsuit is a publicity stunt—a way for the ACLU to assert its staunch progressive bona fides in this particular case. Unfortunately they are agitating on behalf of our enemy to avoid legal, military, statutory, and constitutional means to gather intel as a way to weaken our ability to wage an effective war.]
    The law prohibiting the breaking of the law that we cannot anywhere show has been broken (unless by “eavesdropping on American citizens” we are talking about in their role as incidental participants in legal foreign intel surveillance, in which case, courts have already ruled in the President’s favor) is crysal clear. Unfortunately, so is the law against sodomizing minors. But that didn’t happen here, either. And our OUTRAGED assertions that such buggering of kiddies might have happened—which is based entirely upon our mistrust of Uncle George and those creepy Rove-head puppets he brings over to the house when he babysits the kids—should be enough to force the institution of hearings. True, there is no evidence that a crime has been committed beyond the legal contention, made by opposing legal scholars, over what are the President’s inherent authorities under AUMF and Article II—but screw that noise. President Bush’s claim that he is not bound by the law (which, sure, he hasn’t really made that, but has instead said that he is guided by separation of powers and his position as CiC) is simply ASTOUNDING. Our democratic system depends on the rule of law, and not even the president can issue illegal orders that violate Constitutional principles. That, apparently, is left up to an activist judiciary and the legislative body who wrote FISA, which is now being used to try to subsume presidential war time powers to congressional control under a clear violation of the framer’s intent. But so what? Let’s DO THIS THANG!]
    Shortly after the 911 attacks, the President authorized Foreing Intel gathering under FISA, which followed the dictates set out in the electronic surveillance definitions included in FISA. Which would have been cool and all, provided it wasn’t, like, “hundreds, perhaps thousands” of people inside the US—which is where planning for the 911 attacks took place, and which is where embedded terror cells tend to, well, embed. Similarly, their cell strucures, which work under an “activation” scheme from foreign contact, had its rights violated when the President, as CiC, decided it would be a good idea to check for those activations in order to thwart potential attacks inside the homeland preemptively.

    James Bamford, an icon of the antiestablishent movement that followed the domestic abuses of Nixon and Hoover—and was responsible for the changes to the NSA that prevents the very abuses the President and the NSA are now being accused of—is admitting that he really did shit all to stop abuses. But we should listen to him now, because he’s still concerned that, hypothetically, with an agency with such powers as the NSA, there can be abuses.

    Of course, you can find security abuses with something so large as the NSA, despite its constant oversight, both by its own attorneys, the DoJ, the DoD, the FISA review court, and Congressional briefings—but then, you can also find them in Sandy Berger’s socks and boxer shorts, as well as atop Chuck Schumers’ desk or Bill Clinton’s inbox.
    the ACLU has begged the question—primarly by asserting “spying” rather than intel gathering, and so setting up a law enforcement, domestic-arena strawman—in odrer to make the attendant claim that the program, about which they are unfamiliar with the particulars (and let’s face it, that’s the aim here, to get the classified elements revealed, which ain’t gonna happen), is violating free speech rights (it isn’t, speech is not prevented or controlled, in anything other than the soft sense that those engaging in speech that will provoke an attack are forced to be too circumspect; and fourth amendment rights, which again, there is not an iota of proof that any such violation has taken place—where due process has been denied American citizens specifically targeted by the program, or where an “unreasonable” warrantless search has taken place.

    In fact, Bush and General Hayden and AG Gonzales have consistently argued the opposite—that in situations calling for such protections, this is precisely the time wherein the US has been most careful to follow FISA statutes and obtain warrants.]
    An immediate and permanent halt to a program not provably illegal and that is intended solely to protect national security under the powers granted the President (by congress, mind) to do just that is an attempt (and a baldly partisan and tactically tin-eared one at that) to undermine our national security apparatus while seeking a shift in the balance of powers. The heavyhanded way the ACLU and its fellow-travelers are insisting upon doing this—shutting down preemptively in advance of a trial that is founded on mere accusation what the administration and its legal apparatus has noted is legal (and has cited precedent and case law for) on the grounds that unproven hypotheticals can be conjured under which the program might not be legal goes against everything the ACLU supposedly stands for—most notably a willingness to predetermine guilt and work backward from there, national security consequences be damned.
    http://www.proteinwisdom.com/index.php/weblog/entry/19695/

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  33. Anonymous6:50 PM

    OK I see your point. Yes there is no provision that requires a standing army or navy, the constitution leaves the decision of whether to have a standing army or not to Congress. However, if Congress provides the President with a standing army then the President is the commander in chief of it, every day that it exists.

    I don't disagree with your points about distrust of a standing army by the founders. Unfortunately as means of travel have improved with technology, and weapons, etc., conditions changed with regard to the need for a standing army. The Congress and the people of the USA finally learned the lessons of World War II during the cold war and especially during the Reagan years. If you want peace prepare for war. If you want to be left alone by organized foreign countries and their armies make sure they fear your military, and they won't attack you.

    The Congress has determined the country and the President need a standing army, and once that standing army is provided the President and NOT the Congress is commander in chief of its activities.

    The Congress could refuse to fund the military in which case it would be disbanded, and the President couldn't stop this. It wouldn't be a policy most Americans would support however. Nor would it be a wise policy.

    The principal reasons for the founder's fear of a standing army was that some President or general would use the army to impose a dictatorship. I'm talking a real dictatorship like in Libya, North Korea, many past south american regimes, the USSR, etc., not a pretend BDS dictatorship. I think their fears were well founded at the initial stages of our country. Look what's happening to Russia with its slide back into dictatorship over the last 10 years.

    I believe the fears of the founders are no longer well founded because our population as a whole and the military from officers to grunts is so well steeped in freedom and the principles of elections, abiding by election results, and civilian control of the military that any President or General who tried to imprison the legitemate branches of government and create a dictatorship would not be supported by 99% of our officers and enlisted men and women. Therefore, the founders fears are no longer applicable, and as mentioned above, changes in transportation and weapons technology necessitate a standing army.

    I do think that the recent trend of Democrats wanting to overturn election results with judges and their raging irrational paranoia of their far left crowd runs the risks of a slippery slope towards delegitimizing the election process in the minds of a majority of all people in this country and the military. If we should ever slide down that slippery slope in the minds of a majority of americans, a military take over by one side or the other then becomes thinkable. That is just one of many reasons, I find recent democrat efforts and statements in these matters over the last 2 elections to be especially dangerous and despicable.

    Says the "Dog"

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  34. Anonymous11:07 PM

    Steve,

    WOW, its hard for me to determine where to begin with your last diatribe. I can tell you I read the entire post, and I can't remember any statement, argument, or allegation of fact with which I agreed.

    In fact much of what you wrote about Judge Alito and his legal theories, personality, whatever (besides just being pure conjecture on your part) seemed to be 180 degrees from what I know about him and 180 degrees away from Judge Alito as described by various 3rd Circuit lawyers including, Clinton and LBJ appointees.

    I don't think it would serve any purpose to argue back and forth on your most recent post, point by point. Its clear to me that would be a waste of time for both of us.

    Let's just agree to disagre. Completely disagree on everything in that last post of yours.

    Says the "Dog"

    ReplyDelete
  35. Anonymous8:29 PM

    Steve,

    I am always up for a challenging and spirited discussion of vastly opposing viewpoints, at least in principle, and I appreciate the civility with which we have each engaged each other in this thread.

    I'm willing to try and have this discussion with you, but due to time and work constraints it may have to be done in slow motion so to speak. It may be a while before I can try to respond more substantively to your post above. I will try to make some time for it. I didn't want you to think a failure to respond was an avoidance of your post altogether.

    Says the "Dog"

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