Tuesday, January 24, 2006

The "Bad Law" defense

Something extraordinary happened yesterday: the Administration, via the appearance by former NSA Director Gen. Michael Hayden at the National Press Club, finally offered a coherent answer to the question of why the Administration bypassed FISA in order to eavesdrop on Americans. By "coherent," I don’t mean "persuasive and satisfactory." I mean only that the explanation was at least responsive to the question and capable of being understood. Since all we had been given up until this point is gibberish about how we need to be "fast and agile" in this "different war," yesterday's explanation constituted significant progress.

Contrary to the excuse offered up by Bush followers that this illegal eavesdropping was all necessitated by some sort of super-complex data mining method which rendered FISA an obsolete relic, Gen. Hayden made clear that this is not the case. Bush's eavesdropping program entailed garden-variety eavesdropping on telephone conversations - not some new technologically advanced data mining program. As Kevin Drum put it:

General Michael Hayden, the deputy director of national intelligence, defended the NSA's domestic spying program today:

Hayden stressed that the program "is not a drift net over Dearborn or Lackawanna or Freemont, grabbing conversations that we then sort out by these alleged keyword searches or data-mining tools or other devices that so-called experts keep talking about. This is targeted and focused."

Unless I've missed something along the way, this is important news. Hayden is saying that the NSA program isn't some kind of large-scale data mining operation that the authors of the FISA act never could have foreseen. Rather, it's "targeted and focused" and involves "only international calls and only those we have a reasonable basis to believe involve al Qaeda or one of its affiliates."

In other words, it's precisely the kind of monitoring that the FISA court already approves routinely and in large volumes. Another few hundred requests wouldn't faze them in the least.

Kevin is exactly right – both about what Hayden said and about the under-noticed significance of it. Hayden made clear several times that the decision to bypass FISA had nothing to do with any sort of data-mining operation:

You know, I tried to make this as clear as I could in prepared remarks. I said this isn't a drift net, all right? I said we're not there sucking up coms and then using some of these magically alleged keyword searches -- "Did he say 'jihad'? Let's get --" I mean, that is not . . . This is targeted, this is focused. This is about al Qaeda.

According to Hayden, the reason the President wanted to bypass FISA was because FISA requires a showing of "probable cause" in order to obtain a FISA warrant for eavesdropping on telephone conversations, and the President believed that standard was too burdensome. They therefore lowered the standard from "probable cause" to "reasonable basis to believe," and also eliminated the legal requirement that a federal judge approve of the eavesdropping (and replaced it with the requirement that a NSA "shift supervisor" approve) – which is all a way of saying that they "changed" (i.e., violated) the law knowingly, unilaterally, and in secret. Gen. Hayden:

The president's authorization allows us to track this kind of call more comprehensively and more efficiently. The trigger is quicker and a bit softer than it is for a FISA warrant, but the intrusion into privacy is also limited: only international calls and only those we have a reasonable basis to believe involve al Qaeda or one of its affiliates. . . .

QUESTION: Just to clarify sort of what's been said, from what I've heard you say today and an earlier press conference, the change from going around the FISA law was to -- one of them was to lower the standard from what they call for, which is basically probable cause to a reasonable basis; and then to take it away from a federal court judge, the FISA court judge, and hand it over to a shift supervisor at NSA. Is that what we're talking about here -- just for clarification?

GEN. HAYDEN: You got most of it right. The people who make the judgment, and the one you just referred to, there are only a handful of people at NSA who can make that decision.

When Hayden says that the President’s Executive Order allows eavesdropping using a standard that "is a bit softer than it is for a FISA warrant," what he’s saying, of course, is that the President ordered eavesdropping which FISA prohibits. FISA makes it a criminal offense to eavesdrop without a warrant from a FISA court, and Bush ordered eavesdropping without those warrants. Thus, Hayden claims that when NSA now wants to eavesdrop, it does not need to comply with FISA, but instead, has "two paths" to choose from:

If FISA worked just as well, why wouldn't I use FISA? To save typing? No. There is an operational impact here, and I have two paths in front of me, both of them lawful, one FISA, one the presidential -- the president's authorization. And we go down this path because our operational judgment is it is much more effective. So we do it for that reason.

To appreciate just how illegal this non-FISA "second path" for eavesdropping is, one can just read Section 1809 of FISA, which expressly provides that "[a] person is guilty of an offense if he intentionally - (1) engages in electronic surveillance under color of law except as authorized by statute. . . ." And Section 2511(2)(f) provides that FISA "shall be the exclusive means by which electronic surveillance . . . may be conducted."

Put simply, FISA – i.e., the law – says that there is no such thing as a "second path" for eavesdropping (other than additional statutory authorization). Anyone who eavesdrops in accordance with a "second path" -- which is exactly what Gen. Hayden said the Administration was doing and continues to do -- is, by definition, breaking the law and committing a crime.

Gen. Hayden’s explanation is that the NSA eavesdrops in accordance with the "second path" because FISA is too restrictive and "does not give us the operational effect that the authorities that the president has given us give us." In essence, what we have from the Administration, then, is the "Bad Law" defense to criminality: "I did break the law, but the reason I broke the law was because it wasn’t a very good law to begin with."

There are several additional points to note about Gen. Hayden’s defense:

(1) As always, the first -- and, for this scandal, the dipositive -- principle is that the solution to a bad law is to change the law, not to break the law in secret and then claim once you’re caught that the law you broke was a bad law. If the President has the power to comply only with those laws he likes but to violate the laws he dislikes – and that, at bottom, is the Administration’s position – then we have a President who, by definition, does not believe in the rule of law and refuses to comport himself to it.

(2) This entire explanation rests on the claim that the FISA standards were too onerous to meet in order to convince a FISA court to allow them to engage in eavesdropping which they believed was necessary. But if that’s really true, one would expect there to be all sorts of examples where the Administration wanted to obtain FISA warrants but was unable to meet the "probable cause" standard and therefore the proposed eavesdropping was rejected by a FISA judge.

But by all accounts, that never happened. When the President ordered this "second path" for eavesdropping, a more rubber-stamping court than the FISA court would be hard to imagine. They simply didn’t turn down Administration requests to eavesdrop. And in the aftermath of 9/11, is there really any doubt that the court would have even more permissively approved eavesdropping requests, especially if, as Gen. Hayden claimed, the Administration is only eavesdropping on "specifically target communications we have reason to believe are associated with al Qaeda."

The claim that the evidentiary requirements for obtaining FISA warrants were too stringent is simply negated by the empirical evidence that they were able to get whatever warrants they wanted.

(3) One issue which has not been explained by the Administration ever, including by Gen. Hayden yesterday, is the obvious question of why they did not seek to have the FISA standards amended if they were too onerous. As Kevin Drum notes, it is virtually certain that a Senate which passed the Patriot Act with only a single Senator voting against it – and which actually did change part of the FISA procedure when enacting the Patriot Act – would have given the Administration whatever changes it wanted to the FISA standards.

It seems that what really attracted the Administration when bypassing FISA was not some desire to lower the evidentiary standard for obtaining warrants (since it was obtaining all the warrants it wanted and since it could certainly have persuaded Congress to amend the standard), but rather, the ability to eavesdrop without having to tell any Federal Judge on whom they were eavesdropping. That’s the disturbing part of the illegality, much more than the "probable cause" v. "reasonable likely to believe" issue.

A reasonable debate can be had by all as to whether the standard for obtaining a warrant ought to be "probable cause" or "reasonable basis to believe." I’m not sure it really makes much of a difference, since they are both quite subjective and I really can’t imagine a FISA judge, operating in secret, especially after 9/11, being unwilling to sign a warrant because there is only a "reasonable basis," rather than "probable cause," to believe that the targeted communications involve an al Qaeda member.

Matt Yglesias is absolutely correct that the standard described by Gen. Hayden is incredibly vague, and may be far looser than the country would like. But that debate is at least reasonable.

But what is not reasonable, and what most Americans would likely not want (hence the enactment of FISA), is for the Administration to be able to eavesdrop on Americans with no oversight whatsoever. Rather than the evidentiary standard for warrants, the most important part of FISA is that it allows eavesdropping on Americans only with judicial oversight in order to avoid abuse. That’s what the Administration did away with - unilaterally and in secret – and it is that (rather than the change in the evidentiary standard) which they likely would have been unable to have Congress agree to. So they went ahead and did it anyway.

We had a legislative regime in place which is incredibly permissive in allowing eavesdropping. We have a FISA court that could not have been more deferential in granting warrants. The only practical reason to bypass that process – even with a lowered evidentiary standard - is a desire to eavesdrop without having to disclose to a FISA judge whose communications are being intercepted and why.

(4) The crux of Gen. Hayden’s defense, as well as President Bush’s yesterday, is that the FISA-violating eavesdropping is not problematic because we can trust the Government to do the right thing:

I'm disappointed I guess that perhaps the default response for some is to assume the worst. I'm trying to communicate to you that the people who are doing this, okay, go shopping in Glen Burnie and their kids play soccer in Laurel, and they know the law. They know American privacy better than the average American, and they're dedicated to it. So I guess the message I'd ask you to take back to your communities is the same one I take back to mine. This is focused. It's targeted. It's very carefully done. You shouldn't worry.

And President Bush, in defending his eavesdropping program yesterday, repeatedly – and I do mean repeatedly – assured us that we need not worry ourselves about it because it was all being done to "protect" us:

I resolved on that day to do everything I can to protect the American people. . . .

My most important job is to protect the security of the American people. . . .

And so part of my decision-making process, part of it as you see when I begin to protect you, to do my number one priority, rests upon this fact . . .

If they're making phone calls into the United States, we need to know why -- to protect you.

But we don’t have a Government where the President can break the law in secret and then tell us not to worry about it because they are good people who are doing it for our own good, to "protect" us. We’ve never had a system of government operate on such paternalistic and blindly loyal sentiments, with our leaders holding themselves out as the Good, Strong National Fathers who must be trusted to do what's best for us, even if it is in violation of the law. The reason FISA exists is precisely because Americans, through their elected representatives, made a collective judgment that they do not trust the Federal Government to eavesdrop on Americans without judicial oversight.

The time to make all of these arguments – that we can trust the Administration to eavesdrop in secret, that the standards of FISA are too stringent, etc. -- was before the Administration broke the law, not now once they got caught breaking it. No judge would even listen to a criminal defendant try to explain that he broke the law because the law was too stringent or was ill-advised, and we should be no more willing to listen to that excuse for law-breaking just because it’s coming from George Bush. That’s what it means to say that we live under the rule of law and that nobody is above it.

49 comments:

  1. Anonymous2:10 PM

    A reasonable debate can be had by all as to whether the standard for obtaining a warrant ought to be "probable cause" or "reasonable basis to believe." I’m not sure it really makes much of a difference, since they are both quite subjective and I really can’t imagine a FISA judge, operating in secret, being unwilling to sign a warrant because there is only "reasonable basis for believing," rather than "probable cause," that the communications involve an al Qaeda member.

    Some pundit was "explaining" on Fox last nite that if the govt captures a terrorist's cell fone, they need to be able to monitor all the numbers in its memory right away, and they can't do that under a probable cause standard. Now please. Can anyone imagine going to the FIS Court and their refusing to agree that a number called and found in a terrorist's cell fone does not meet the threshold of probable cause (which for intel purposes is a lower threshold than is PC for criminal purposes)?

    This is just getting more and more ridiculous.

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  2. Anonymous2:13 PM

    Good analysis, but I don't buy Drum's reading of Hayden's language as a pure denial of data mining. Between all the 'driftnets' and the naming of specific cities and the reference to 'jihad', there's room enough to parse a wideload truck of meaning through.

    I don't think he's come close to a categorical denial of data mining.

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  3. They broke the law because they wanted to assert their power not to be bound by law. It seems to be that simple.

    Is this still a country that cares whether it has a monarchy?

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  4. Anonymous2:25 PM

    Having done such a beautiful job of presenting half of this issue, why did you not continue by saying: “ On the other hand, supporters of the President cite......and they are wrong because...” By your framing of this issue your readers are left to conclude that only rabid “he can do no wrong” Bush supporters or ninnys frightened for their safety to the point that they don’t care about their liberty are supporting the President.
    Our government is a form of Paper/Rock/Scissors. Congress cannot tell the President what to do in many areas, they can only cut off his funding. When the President acts in these areas he is not acting “above” the law, but clearly within it, carrying out his Constitutional powers. Now, you may disagree that this issue is not one of those powers, but to frame it that by the President not following a law passed by Congress he is acting “above the law” and therefore the issue is settled is an attempt to take advantage of your readers’ ignorance of Constitutional law. I know that you know the difference. Why don’t you share that knowledge with your readers? Ah, yes. This is a blog and you don’t have to. And, I have to say that most of your readers don’t care about the truth, they just want to see you beat up on Bush. You do it quite well.

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  5. I don't think he's come close to a categorical denial of data mining.

    I agree with you - strictly speaking, you're right - there's nothing in what Hayden said that is an iron-clad denial of data mining, but I still agree with Kevin that this is not about data-mining for two reasons:

    (1) Hayden came pretty close to categorically denying it - it was very clear that he was scoffing at the "so-called experts'" theories (which, ironically, have come from Bush supporters) that they bypassed FISA to mine data, and had he been pushed a little more, my guess is we would have had a no-wiggle denial - he came prepared to deny that; and

    (2) It is in their interest to claim they were data-mining. They could confuse the issue by saying they have complicated new technologies and data-mining methods (which they can't, of course, disclose or describe) that made it vital, at least in some cases, to circumvent the old, sagging, pre-technology FISA system, and a lot of people would be inherently sympathetic to that claim (indeed, there were people, including Kevin, who were already sympathetic to that argument).

    But if it's just plain old, garden-variety eavesdropping on calls which they are doing (which is what Hayden strongly suggested it was), then their excuses are much weaker.

    I think that's why Kevin was (for Kevin) angry about what Hayden said - he even wrote two posts on it - because Kevin had been assuming (as he always does) good faith on the part of the Administration - that they had a good technological reason to bypass FISA - only to now learn (as usual) that his good faith was unjustified because they were just eavesdropping on calls and had no real reason not to comply with FISA.

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  6. Now, you may disagree that this issue is not one of those powers, but to frame it that by the President not following a law passed by Congress he is acting “above the law” and therefore the issue is settled is an attempt to take advantage of your readers’ ignorance of Constitutional law.

    I have probably written as many posts rebutting the other side's legal arguments on the NSA issue as any person in the blogosphere. The one thing I don't think I can be fairly accused of is simply asserting that the President's conduct is illegal without explaining my reasons. It doesn't mean you have to agree with my arguments, but one can't reasonably denied that I have done the work to address and refute the pro-Bush legal arguments which have been advanced.

    I realize that, like every blog, there are new readers here who haven't necessarily read every word I've ever written, and that's fine. But I can't reasonably be expected to re-iterate all of those legal arguments in each post every time I want to speak about the NSA scandal. For reasons which I have amply articulated many times (including as recently as a few days ago when I wrote a long post responding to the DoJ's 42-page legal letter in defense of the President) - I find the legal defenses offered to justify this eavesdroping to be unserious and frivolous. For that reason, I do now operate from the assumption that the eavesdropping program is illegal - not because I began at that point but because I arrived there after much analysis and work to explain why I believe this to be the case.

    Those posts are easily found if you're actually interested in them, or, if there are specific issues you're interested in seeing discussed, let me know and I will provide the links to where I wrote about them.

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  7. The Bush defenders all want the public argument about this to be about privacy and protection.

    The REAL debate should be about lawlessness.

    Bush is claiming the right to unilaterally ignore the law without even bothering to tell anyone that he is doing so.

    That is what this debate is about.

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  8. Anonymous2:44 PM

    Have not yet alluded to it my way yet, but I think "wiretapping" is not what is going on here, but in fact the data mining. Ask yourself how they get this information to be so pin point precise as they claim? Luck?

    Rove will play this whole thing out as the tough guy. Will the Dems cave as soft on terrorism and "security?"

    Quite a bit more on this at Tough Sh*t

    You may be amused in that post to see that John Hinderaker (The World's Smartest Lawyer TM) has finally emerged out of his cocoon to declaim breathlessly on Hayden "impassioned" defense of the NSA. More on that too. Oy.

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  9. Anonymous2:47 PM

    A reasonable debate can be had by all as to whether the standard for obtaining a warrant ought to be "probable cause" or "reasonable basis to believe." I’m not sure it really makes much of a difference, since they are both quite subjective and I really can’t imagine a FISA judge, operating in secret, especially after 9/11, being unwilling to sign a warrant because there is only a "reasonable basis," rather than "probable cause," to believe that the targeted communications involve an al Qaeda member.

    Well, there's the small matter of the Fourth Amendment here, so I can imagine that there would be a problem with that standard. Which tends to indicate that the admitted behavior of the administration was not merely illegal (a violation of FISA) but unconstitutional as well.

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  10. This is just getting more and more ridiculous.

    Indeed. It's just impossible that inane warrant denials like that were really happening and that this was the reason they ordered this FISA bypass because (as the link to Josh Marshall in the post demonstrates) at the time they ordered this program, just about every warrant was easily approved by the court.

    FISA warrants have been issued for A LOT less than someone's number being found in the cellphone of a terrorist.

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  11. Datamining is hardly pinpoint precise, but simply looking for a needle in a haystack full of nails, iron filings, etc with a magnet...you get a lot of iron filings, etc along the way.

    Which is why the FBI dismisses most of the NSA intel as garbage: teachers ordering pizza?

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  12. If ya want another HOWL...go read this Transcript of Alberto's interview with Jim Lehrer last night.

    Foggy Bottom is cranking up the Blowin' Smoke Up Your Skirt machines on ALL stations.
    ;-)

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  13. Anonymous3:18 PM

    Glenn, you suggest a few possible reasons why the Bush Administration didn't go to Congress for a change in the FISA law. I can think of one more reason: lowering the standard from "probable cause" to "reasonable basis to believe" would violate the 4th Amendment: "...no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause..." Giving the Democrats in Congress the opportunity to debate this was probably something the Administration wanted to avoid.

    I'm surprised I haven't seen any discussion of this part of the story so far. The Bush Administration isn't just violating the FISA statute, they're violating the 4th Amendment.

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  14. Anonymous3:18 PM

    notherbob2,

    My wife and I have a difference of opinion about your insinuation that blogs should include different sides of every issue that they discuss. She says you're being hypocritical and that you wouldn't say they same thing on a right-leaning blogs. I say that you do say that.

    Could you provide me some links to posts on right-leaning blogs, where you've requested they give an honest airing of the left-leaning side of the issue?

    Please, I'm trying to defend your honor here. Don't let my wife continue to think your a hypocrite.

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  15. Anonymous3:24 PM

    Nother Bob, I try to link right side blogs regularly because I think you have to see what is being said. Of course I then distort it for my own sordid purposes.

    And speaking of distortion for sordid purpose, Karen McL, I did see Alberto Gonzales on with Lehrer last night. The White House makes a big thing about how it needs more tools, always more. If they just had another tool . . . . Oy.

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  16. Anonymous3:28 PM

    It looks like my assertion that the Bush Administration is violating the 4th Amendment doesn't hold water. Although the language of the Amendment seems plain enough to me, the Supreme Court has had a different take on it. Findlaw says the following:

    By 1992, it was no longer the case that the ''warrants-with- narrow-exceptions'' standard normally prevails over a ''reasonableness'' approach. Exceptions to the warrant requirement have multiplied, tending to confine application of the requirement to cases that are exclusively ''criminal'' in nature. And even within that core area of ''criminal'' cases, some exceptions have been broadened.

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  17. Anonymous3:30 PM

    notherbob2 writes:I know that you know the difference. Why don’t you share that knowledge with your readers? Ah, yes. This is a blog and you don’t have to. And, I have to say that most of your readers don’t care about the truth, they just want to see you beat up on Bush. You do it quite well.

    As anyone who has read here for any length of time would know, I sometimes strongly disagree with the posts here. Certainly I disagree with many of the leftist/liberals who comment.

    But at the same time I must insist that Glenn's legal analysis of every single serious legal argument set forth by either the Bush Admin or its defenders in the MSM or blogosphere, has been exhaustive, and in my view, definitive. There is no other single site where the issue is as well addressed in terms of the law -- and I follow several law blogs. What Bush is doing is illegal. Period.

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  18. Anonymous3:31 PM

    Thank you for the explanation. You are correct that I am a new reader unfamiliar with your past posts. Please suffer me to make another attempt to state my objection to your post. Most people would see a difference between a defendant in a traffic court stating: “I know the law and it says that you can drive 70 miles per hour if the weather permits. I think that the rain wasn’t so bad that I was breaking that law.” Versus a defendant stating: “That is a stupid law. I should be allowed to drive 70 mph in any kind of weather.”
    One defendant is acting “above the law”. The other is respecting the law, but disagreeing with the arresting officer’s interpretation and application of the law. Almost any judge would clearly note the difference in determining guilt and the appropriate sentence, if any.
    As to the whole “Bush broke the law” issue: Could I draw a parallel to an impassioned defense attorney declaiming the fact that the boy scout who struck the child molester to stop him from fondling his target in the mall did so with more force than was legally appropriate?
    Watching the left declaim that Bush was so zealous in defending America that he broke the law makes me ponder: “What are they thinkiing?”

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  19. Anonymous3:39 PM

    notherbob2 writes:Watching the left declaim that Bush was so zealous in defending America that he broke the law makes me ponder: “What are they thinkiing?”

    I saw John McCain on Fox a few days ago, and he was asked whether Bush's warrantless NSA surveillance program was legal. His answer was:"I don't think so." He added that Bush needs to come to Congres, meaning I assume, to get whatever FISA amendments he needs and then to abide by the law, not simply violate it. As you are no doubt aware, McCain is hardly a left-winger.

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  20. Anonymous3:46 PM

    Bush isn't defending America if he doesn't obey the law. His oath was to defend the Constitution, not make people feel safe. If he wanted to make me feel safe he'd order handguns to be confiscated.

    It isn't just "lefties" that are outraged about this - I bet that there aren't a lot of lefties at NSA, and supposedly "dozens" of NSA people were upset enough about this program to talk to the NYT.

    I think that this President reverts to chest-thumping whenever he gets caught out doing something he shouldn't be doing. The more chest-thumping, the more humbug.

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  21. Watching the left declaim that Bush was so zealous in defending America that he broke the law makes me ponder: “What are they thinkiing?”

    I can't answer for the "left", because I'm not sure what that is, but I'll answer for me. Having a president that willfully breaks the law scares the bejeezus out of me. Especially when laws are on the books that specifically address these issues. We're not picking cherries here, folks. We're trying to maintain a democracy; a nation of laws and not men. For over 200 years we've established a standard and process for addressing laws that someone thinks goes too far, or not far enough. Up till now, I wasn't aware that willful ignorance was a part of that conduct.

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  22. Notherbob2:
    You analogy is inapt - because unlike the driving situtation you posit with a rule coupled with a discretionary *interpretation* of *TOO fast for Conditions* -- there is NO such discretionary coupling of the purpose of comporting with either the 4th Amendment or FISA in respect to What ever standards - they all relate to requiring a WARRANT be issued if one party in this equation is a U.S. Citizen.

    What the bAdmin is attempting to do is argue the *standard* (and interpretation point) of "probable cause" versus "reasonble to believe" as the crux here. But BOTH relate to obtaining a Warrant [except as FISA provides the 72 hr *emergency* porvisions and the 15 days exception following a Declaration of War by Congress.]

    YES there is a *reasonableness* element that can be argued BUT its STILL related to getting proper Warrant.

    If the bAdmin can turn this standard on its head to *what ever WE think is reasonable* No WARRANT is ever necessary – there is nothing left of this 4th Amendment, nor the protections under the 1st Amendment for free speech. Nor the separation of Powers with Congress’ ability to regulate and proscribe limits on such activities in conformity with the Constitution.

    And the best HOWLER from Gonzales was his assertion that FISA is an "extremely complicated" statute.

    Bwahahhahahaha!!

    Phuleeease!!

    Talk about playing on the Ignorance of the non-legally educated! I've seen more perceptive thoughts and commentary come from lots of folks with no legal background - but who CAN READ the simple language of FISA and understand the 4th Amendment means - what ever the legal standard is followed - it's that you use it to get a WARRANT.

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  23. In Bush at War when the principles are discussing military action in Afghanistan Rumsfield voices the opninion that the US should not justify itself before invading, regardless of whether the invasion would be justified or not, because it would sent the message that US action is to be approved or disapproved rather than accepted.

    I wonder if this same mindset is not at work what we're seeing here. I hope it is, because that's a lot less nefarious than the alternative.

    Not to say that still wouldn't be troubling in itself.

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  24. Anonymous5:10 PM

    Since defending America is not a high crime or misdemeanor (or, more correctly, such a finding is not likely in an impeachment procedure) the only finding that matters here is what the voting public decides. I am willing to take Hypatia’s word for it. Bush did something illegal. My sentence: Follow McCain’s advice to get the law changed as necessary and follow it from now on. Also, leave no stone unturned in rooting out the traitors who leaked to the NYT and any aiders and abettors who also took a vow of secrecy. It scares the bejesus out of me to think that people feel that they can violate their sworn duty of secrecy for political reasons and be protected. Any matters of mitigation can be taken into account in their punishment, if any, but they should not be trusted to perform their duties after having violated the trust placed in them.
    Or, perhaps you would argue that each of us is free to interpret the Constitution and laws individually and violate our oaths to leak our governments secrets to whomever we wish so long as we feel that our leaking is for the good of America?

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  25. Anonymous5:23 PM

    To me, The Bush Administration knows it's in trouble here, and General Hayden is just another prong on the defense of their actions among the swarm coming out of the whitehouse lately. Gee, he's a general, so it must be true. Even though it is a better explanation of the program, it is still plainly more spin from the spin machine in the hope that, as in the past, the more they repeat it, the more it will be believed. Wrong, this is a criminal act. I, for one, believe the NSA domestic spying is, was and always will be illegal until the law is changed. Period.

    And Hypatia, the 4th amendment clearly states that there must be a "probable cause." How many courts will issue a search warrant to a police entity for "reasonable basis?" Answer, absolutely none.

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  26. Anonymous5:47 PM

    I don't know what's going to happen in our country as a result of this intentional lawbreaking by the president, although I doubt that he will be held accountable in any meaningful way, and I expect that he will continue to secretly violate numerous federal laws.

    But I do want to say that no one can deny that you, Glenn, have stepped forward in our country's hour of need and told us what the hell is going on, and what a sensible response would be.

    You have my admiration and thanks.

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  27. Anonymous5:47 PM

    bushtit perplexingly addressed this to me:And Hypatia, the 4th amendment clearly states that there must be a "probable cause." How many courts will issue a search warrant to a police entity for "reasonable basis?" Answer, absolutely none.

    Er, yes. What did I write that would cause you to believe I think otherwise?

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  28. Anonymous5:58 PM

    notherbob2,

    The high crime or misdemeanor is the felony crime of violating the FISA,as detailed by the FISA. We are still a nation of laws and no man is above the law. Under your delusion (and that of the proponents of the "unitary executive theory generally) the impeachment clause would be a dead letter, since the president would always be above the law.

    And you're joking, right?. . ."It scares the bejesus out of me to think that people feel that they can violate their sworn duty of secrecy for political reasons and be protected." Boy, if you really felt that way, you must be ready to hang Karl Rove, Scooter Libby and the rest of the white house staff - and Bush for protecting them.

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  29. Anonymous6:39 PM

    Damn straight, JTN, and anyone else who does so. ‘Course, unlike some (you?) I would wait for the endictment, trial and appeals before the hanging.

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  30. Anonymous10:05 PM

    Good reading for many of the commenters here, who think that their pious maunderings about Constitutional Amendments and rules of law disguise their partisan thirst for Bush blood. Great stuff for raising money from the base. Good for attracting the absolutely vital swing vote? Not so much. Rove is right again. I hope the Democratic leadership doesn’t fall for it, but it looks like they might.

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  31. Anonymous11:23 PM

    Bush has whipped up fear and hysteria in this country ever since 9/11 or the simple reason that nothing else was going to keep his presidency going.

    He LIVES for this stuff, because if it weren't happening and he wasn't puffing it up he wouldn't be president. It is that simple.

    He will campaign on fear and hysteria, and we will see whether it works.

    He obviously doesn't care much about the law, think about his behavior during 45 years of childhood.

    This isn't a battle of ideas, it is a battle for power where one side has decided that anything goes. We have been betrayed.

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  32. notherbob2: you say:
    "Also, leave no stone unturned in rooting out the traitors who leaked to the NYT and any aiders and abettors who also took a vow of secrecy. It scares the bejesus out of me to think that people feel that they can violate their sworn duty of secrecy for political reasons and be protected. Any matters of mitigation can be taken into account in their punishment, if any, but they should not be trusted to perform their duties after having violated the trust placed in them.
    Or, perhaps you would argue that each of us is free to interpret the Constitution and laws individually and violate our oaths to leak our governments secrets to whomever we wish so long as we feel that our leaking is for the good of America?"


    But you are mixing up the *Whistlebowers* and the *political* leakers as the SAME. They are are the opposite side of the same coin. Whistleblowers reveal information of unlawful or harmful activity to protect the public good. They are then provided protection under statutes for uncovering the wrong doing - in this case the illegal Spying without a required Warrant - in violation of FISA and the Constitution.

    The opposide side of that coin is the Libby/Rove leak of classfied information that was the type protected by statute (there is no *public right* to know or disseminate this type of information) - and it harmed the public interest in keeping Covert CIA NOC's identity of Valerie Plame a secret -- plus the front company and other personnel who worked with her. There was no legtimate *public purpose* served for Rove or Libby in violating their classified security clearances for to have discussed Plame's CIA status with reporters. This is the *Political partisan Leaker* case that harms the country.

    Under the purpose of public good - we protect the *whistlebower* and punish the *leaker.*

    But the bAdmin is attempting to turn this on it's head and is actively protecting the political leakers -Libby (until his indictment made it impossible to do otherwise) and Rove - even though the president MUST be aware of their involvement.

    Conversely, they are seeking to punish the *whistleblowers* who saw this illegal government activity and NSA spying and reported it. Reporting illegalities of the government activity is not a CRIME.

    These are the polar opposite of cases and should not be lumped together in your view of *breaking oaths* or *vows of secrecy*.

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  33. Anonymous1:45 AM

    nutterbob2 said: It scares the bejesus out of me to think that people feel that they can violate their sworn duty of secrecy for political reasons and be protected. Any matters of mitigation can be taken into account in their punishment, if any, but they should not be trusted to perform their duties after having violated the trust placed in them.
    Or, perhaps you would argue that each of us is free to interpret the Constitution and laws individually and violate our oaths to leak our governments secrets to whomever we wish so long as we feel that our leaking is for the good of America?


    Bob, here, let me correct this for you....

    "It scares the bejesus out of me to think that President Bush feels that he can violate his sworn duty of protecting and defending the Constitution for political reasons and be protected. Any matters of mitigation can be taken into account in his punishment, if any, but he should not be trusted to perform his duties after having violated the trust placed in them.
    Or, perhaps you would argue that each of us is free to interpret the Constitution and laws individually and violate our oaths by breaking the law so long as we feel that our illegal activities are for the good of America?"

    That's surely what you meant to say, right?

    Do you see the irony here? I doubt it.

    The leakers are the true patriots.

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  34. Anonymous2:31 AM

    If we can slide from probable cause to reasonable suspicion (or belief), how much longer will it take us to the level of vague hunch? The operating principle seems to be the Roman imperial one that the imperator is "solutus legibus" -- released from the laws.
    Brian Boru

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  35. Glenn,

    There is something about this "defense" that I a bit surprised you did not mentioned. That is the claims that this program is focused is complete bullshit and it is nothing different from what Bush has been saying since day one.

    Let's recall the resent story about the FBI being sent thousands and thousands of NSA tips, none of which proved good. The FBI joked about "Pizza Hut calls" they would have to make when the NSA sent another load of useless "tips." There is clearly nothing "focused" about this.

    I am surprised you didn't call this but, more importantly, that the reporters asking the questions didn't bother to ask the General why, if the program is focused, is the NSA sending the FBI on thousands of wild goose chases.

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  36. Anonymous2:50 PM

    This is a very good job (and the DeWine follow-up is excellent), but...

    you are surely aware that one of the weakest parts of your argument is here:

    But if that’s really true, one would expect there to be all sorts of examples where the Administration wanted to obtain FISA warrants but was unable to meet the "probable cause" standard and therefore the proposed eavesdropping was rejected by a FISA judge.

    Even the NY Times admitted the obvious - just because FISA approves almost everything, it does not follow that they will approve almost anything.

    IN fact, the court apparently has what we might call a "sneak preview" feature - if they don't like an application, they 'hint' to the applicant that they can save themselves some embarrassment and the court some annoyance by withdrawing the request. Obviously, this reduces the formal rejections to nearly zero.

    Skeptics ought to check the 9/11 Commission report (sorry for the non-links) - the agents in Minnesota were desperate to check the computer of Z Moussai, but were afraid to apply for a FISA warrant and get shot down.

    Bonus Question: Who is criminally liable if, in fact, the "second path" is a FISA viloation?

    I would assume that underlings at the NSA can employ a combined Nuremberg/Enron defense - they were just following orders that, based on DoJ and DoD review, were lawful.

    So if it follows that only the President is liable, this becomes a political dispute - good luck getting Bush impeached on this.

    Final note - folks can write that Bush did this in secret as much as they like, but it doesn't erase four years of Congressional briefings and acquiesensce.

    Or was this program, in the simplified version on offer, really to complicated for Rockefeller to grasp without staff support?

    Tom Maguire

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  37. Anonymous2:59 PM

    notherbob, you seem so willing to see the "leakers" in this case as treasonous, but doesn't that suggest that you are simply unwilling to see what the administration does as wrong? Consider this analogy: if, instead of boy scouts the boy scouts in your analogy, we were presented with two men in the military, one an officer and one an enlisted man, and the enlisted man had struck the officer to prevent wrongdoing, should he be court-martialed or was what he did right? If you assume that the military and anyone involved is always doing right, then it would be correct to assume that the enlisted man is a traitor and should be court-martialed. If, however, you know that what the officer is doing is wrong, I would consider the enlisted man obligated to do something to stop it.

    I have to echo what other people have said: while it is true that it would be ridiculous and irresponsible for Glenn to simply jump on his blog, hit the caps lock, and start ranting about Bush as traitor or King George (which many bloggers do), that simply isn't what he's done. The administration themselves have offered up detailed accounts of why they feel that they have operated within the law. Glenn has considered them in great detail and looked into the legal history surrounding the case and made an analysis. I agree that there should be a consideration of the other side's argument, but I just don't know what more Glenn could do for you to be offering up such a consideration. It seems to me that what he has done is the very definition of careful consideration.

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  38. Anonymous5:37 PM

    Mr. Greenwald, with all due respect, I think you're missing the point here. What the NSA director must surely have been refering to (though he might have been somewhat ambiguous on the issue) was ultimately the administration's stance that the President has inherent constitutional authority to engage in surveillance without a warrant for the purposes of military defense. Indeed, the administration is now taking the route that they must take, and openly claiming that FISA may be unconstitutional, and probably is. This is what they are going to have to argue sooner or later before a judge.

    The thing is, it may well be--when it comes to foreign surveillance. Yoo makes a fairly convincing case that the executive does have some inherent authority to engage in war, under certain circumstances. The question in that matter is, firstly, are we under those circumstances, and secondly, does surveillance count as an act of war?

    However, I don't think that's where the thorniest issue lies. In fact, I think that probably the administration would win its case; Congress has given consent to wartime activities on the part of the executive, and surveillance is probably one of those activities. Instead, I think the issue hinges on whether the surveillance was domestic or foreign.

    If foreign, then that falls under the Constitutional powers the President has to wage war. But if domestic...then I think he probably doesn't, without explicit Congressional permission (in this case, via the FISA court.) I think it's clear that the administration in fact realizes that this is their weakest point, and so we've seen various insistences on their part over the last few days that all monitored calls had at least one speaker in a foreign country. But you'll note that they haven't yet discussed where the source of monitoring was--domestic or foreign. That's the issue on which this case will ultimately be decided, I think.

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  39. Anonymous7:25 PM

    Of course Hayden is defending the program. He has ordered his subordinates to commit a felony. When Nixon ordered his subordinates to commit a felony by illegal surveillance, there were still enough Republicans with a sense of pride in their Constitution to demonstrate their outrage in impeachment procedings, and the Justice Department had enough integrity to ferret out all the players, at least once the former journalist Bob Woodward wrote his piece. Where are those voices of reason now? Had the same spinmakers been around Nixon, I suppose he would have come out with a publicity onslaught saying "of course we spied, it was entirely legal," and in the tradition of Orwell's Animal Farm, that would have been sufficient. In Orwell's book, the infant communist state was at risk; now, so is our two-century old Republic. Have the terrorists won?

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  40. Are we really that surprised to see these kinds of actions by an Administration bloated with Nixon-Era retreads?

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  41. Anonymous5:48 AM

    There is still another matter to consider regarding what is often cited as reason for extraordinary legal action (in this case spying w/o a warrant) on the part of the administration. That is that it is justified because we are at war. We are not at war. War has never been declared and congress never authorized war. They authorized the president to use means available to fight terrorism. That is not the same thing. War requires engaging an entity, not a tactic. The word "war" is a politically useful term to describe actions taken, but it still is not war in the legal sense that might give credence to the administration's argument for spying without warrants.

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  42. Anonymous12:27 AM

    Yeah, well, the argument comes from theories like Yoo's--the theory goes that even aside from declared wars, the President can do certain war-like actions even without the approval of Congress (or with their approval, via a War Powers act or something like that). These actions seem to include gathering foreign intelligence.

    I think the administration is certainly making a mistake if they think that this is a declared war. It's not--the question is, is there a difference between a declared war and a non-declared war when it comes to gathering foreign intelligence? To be honest, I have no idea, and I really hope a court makes that decision someday.

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  43. Anonymous5:55 AM

    The central tenet to all of Yoo's legal theories is that we are at war. Being at war is his premise from which he draws the conclusion that justifies GWB's extra-legal action. Problem is, we are not legally at war! This is not a trival point. It is the fact that destroys his argument. His premise is false. If the premise is false, the simple rules of logic say the conclusion is also false. Yoo and the rest of his logic-challenged supporters are gambling on democrats not having the male indentifying anatomy to point out the descrepancy. And recent history would indicate their gamble is not much of a gamble at all.

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  44. Anonymous12:08 AM

    "The central tenet to all of Yoo's legal theories is that we are at war. Being at war is his premise from which he draws the conclusion that justifies GWB's extra-legal action. Problem is, we are not legally at war! This is not a trival point. It is the fact that destroys his argument. His premise is false."

    Well...it depends on what "war" means. He makes an argument that war can exist without a declaration of war. He does have a point. If someone attacks us, for example, aren't we automatically at war with them, whether Congress says so or not? Yoo just makes a distinction between defensive war, or war-like actions, and declared war. We are most definitely not in a declared war. But I could see how we might be at war in a more limited sense. We have been attacked, and now we are fighting back. (The real question, I now think, is: were we attacked by a foreign power, or were we attacked by a criminal organization? Was this power once a foreign power, but is not just a criminal organization? I honestly don't know the answer to these questions. If it turns out we're not currently at war with a foreign power, then I think there may well be hell to pay.)

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  45. Anonymous3:35 AM

    Well...it depends on what "war" means. He makes an argument that war can exist without a declaration of war. He does have a point. If someone attacks us, for example, aren't we automatically at war with them, whether Congress says so or not?
    --No. The USS Cole was attacked and we didn't automatically become engaged in war. The Korean standoff has been going on since before my birth (a long time) and that is not a war. By definition, regardless of the activities, they aren't war until congress declares them as such and regardless of the amount of bluster from the president, only congress can declare war. (see consititution). Certainly, congress has had ample time to do so and they have not done it. Why not? If its war, why not declare as so? My point is that Yoo does not have a valid legal point to stand on. Its a bluff. I hold that your last statement is accurate.----- If it turns out we're not currently at war with a foreign power, then I think there may well be hell to pay.) --- Eventually, many will pay.

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  46. I dunno. Given Friday's post on the huniliation of Congress, maybe the first question should be

    "We've spent a great deal of time crafting modifications to this legislation, in cooperation with the White House. We now discover the White House, while engaging in negotiations had been ignoring current law. Is there any point to holding these hearings?"

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  47. Anonymous1:10 PM

    We are told that it is the exclusive domain of the President to decide which communications are eligible for warrantless spying -- that is, which communications might be determined to be occurring either to or from "potential terrorists."

    I am wondering what mechanism the administration will proffer to guarantee that this claimed authority isn't abused. If no warrant is to be issued, what other mechanism will be in place to ensure that the administration does not use this claimed authority to surveille political opponents, for example? Is trust to be the only mechanism available to Congress, the courts and the American people that we may be confident that the Executive branch of government isn't using its claimed authority for wholly political ends?

    Further, I'm wondering if Mr. Gonzales might not be encouraged to address the question of how many communications might reasonably be considered eligible for warrantless surveillance within a hypothetical time frame? Twenty? Three hundred? Five thousand? Four hundred thousand? Millions? Isn't it the administration's claim, in fact, that, given their supposed authority to decide whom they may surveille, they will/are free to decide to surveille all U.S. citizens? What is the mechanism which would either prevent domestic surveillance of all U.S. citizens, irrespective of any ties to terrorism, or which would reveal this behavior should they decide to pursue it?

    The theory of the "unitary executive" seems to me to be one which conveniently renders impotent any mechanism put in place by either Congress or the courts, to prevent surveillance of or detect the identities of subjects of surveillance having nothing whatever to do with terrorism. If neither the courts nor Congress know, via the warrant process, which citizens are the subjects of surveillance, there is no mechanism by which illegal surveillance may be discovered.

    The usual preventive measure in place to keep the government "honest" about illegal surveillance is due process, whereby any evidence illegally obtained will by useless in court. But, inasmuch as this administration claims that it may imprison "suspects" without due process, there is, under their theory of executive power, no mechanism whatever to restrain them from illegal activities.

    In short, I believe that this grasp at absolute authority to eavesdrop on Americans at will and without surveillance is the precise means by which the administration intends to legalize unlimited Executive branch surveillance of all Americans, and, further, to assume to itself all governing fuctions. The process by which they intend to do this involves two steps:

    1) Establish by tacit acceptance from Congress and the courts that the "unitary executive" theory of administrative authority is correct, including the claim that laws passed by Congress are not applicable to the Executive.

    2) Deprive Congress and the courts of all power to supervise executive functions by removing all possible mechanisms by which patently illegal activities may be either prevented or revealed.

    If Congress and the courts permit this theory of the "untiary executive" to obtain either in fact or in law, they will have surrendered all political authority to the party currently in power. Under claim of such broad authority, the Executive branch will be free to criminalize by Executive fiat all political rallies not sanctioned by the government, all political speech not so sanctioned, all written materials not so sanctioned, and even determine that elections would interfere with their authority to wage war. No law passed by Congress will have the power to restrain them, nor will any mechanism exist (save whistleblowers, who may easily be dealt with) to reveal the extent and scope of their activities.

    Mr. Greenwald, you are absolutely correct in your insistence that the investigation proposed is unlikely to go far enough outside the scope of the claims about the NSA program to forthrightly challenge the theory of the "unitary executive," and that, if it does not, this nation will essentially be governed by the decision-making power, assumed unchallenged, by the Exeuctive alone. The theory of the "unitary executive" is a means by which to concentrate both legislative and judicial power in the hands of the executive, to render impotent two of the three branches of government and to achieve the long-sought goal of permanent one-party rule.

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  48. Anonymous2:27 PM

    "By definition, regardless of the activities, they aren't war until congress declares them as such and regardless of the amount of bluster from the president, only congress can declare war."

    No, not war, I agree. But the military doesn't need Congress' approval to defend themselves against attacks like that on the Cole. If they escalated it to a certain level, then yes they would need approval. I admit that "war" might be the wrong word for it. But this is a semantic distinction that (fortunately or unfortunately, depending on your point of view) doesn't harm Yoo's argument. The question isn't: are we at war? The question is: what are the President's powers *regardless of whether or not we're at war*?

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  49. Anonymous5:59 PM

    Some Guy said:
    Mr. Greenwald, with all due respect, I think you're missing the point here. What the NSA director must surely have been refering to (though he might have been somewhat ambiguous on the issue) was ultimately the administration's stance that the President has inherent constitutional authority to engage in surveillance without a warrant for the purposes of military defense.

    With all due respect, I think you, sir, are missing the point. The POTUS does not get to decide if he has the "inherent constitutional authority" to do ANYTHING. If there is an existing law on the books that the POTUS feels is unconstitutional, he should let the SCOTUS decide if that is the case.

    That's how our system of "checks and balances" is supposed to work. The two houses of Congress write the law, and the POTUS signs it. Once the bill is signed, Congress, the POTUS, and all us peons are bound by it. If the POTUS doesn't like it, he gets to veto the law. If a 2/3 majority of Congress feels it is important enough, they can override the veto. If the POTUS thinks the law is unconstitutional, he takes it up with the SCOTUS. If the SCOTUS says the law is consistent with the Constitution, the POTUS has just exhausted all avenues he might take for relief from the law (aside from breaking the law).

    In this case, there was an existing law which states that if you want to conduct domestic surveillance, you must ask the FISA court for a warrant. If the POTUS feels that this law abridges upon his "inherent constitutional authority", his only LEGAL recourse at this stage (since the law has already been signed) is to complain to the SCOTUS and try to get the law overturned.

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