Monday, January 23, 2006

Rules for Political Discourse

It’s always worthwhile to review the rules of political debate just to make sure that we’re not overstepping the bounds of propriety. After all, as the Commander-in-Chief helpfully reminded us just recently, there is a "difference between responsible and irresponsible debate" and we must "demand a debate that brings credit to our democracy -- not comfort to our adversaries." With that admonition in mind, let’s take a look at how these standards play out.

The Great Outrage among Bush followers these last couple of weeks is that Harry Belafonte called George Bush the "greatest terrorist." This is an example of "irresponsible" debate which fails to "bring credit to our democracy," but rather, brings "comfort to our adversaries."

Thus, we have learned that Belafonte’s comments constitute "sabotage and treachery," and they show that he is "demented." Good people everywhere must shun and stigmatize Belafonte, and it is evidence of great societal corruption that he is invited to speak on college campuses. As one patriotic commentator noted, Belafonte’s comment "sounds to me like giving 'aid and comfort' to the enemy. Yes, folks, I'm talking about the "t" word: treason" (emphasis in original). Accordingly, it would be best if Belafonte just renounces his American citizenship and stays in Venezuela with Hugo Chavez, where he belongs.

So just to recap: it renders someone a despicable untouchable loon if they call George Bush a terrorist. Now let’s look at some of the things we have learned in the recent past about Democrats.

We know that, when it comes to Iraq and the fight against terrorism, former President Jimmy Carter is "on the other side" (that would be the side of the terrorists). And how about DNC Chair Howard Dean? He’s a complete "traitor" who, according to Ronald Reagan’s son, "should be arrested and hung for treason or put in a hole until the end of the Iraq War."

Jay Rockefeller? Guilty of treason. How about Dick Durbin? According to Karl Rove, he's on the side of the terrorists, a total traitor. John Kerry? Yawn. Need you even ask? A real traitor to his country, and guilty of treason.

And then, of course, we just spent this last weekend hearing from countless pundits and "journalists" that Democrats sound so very much like the mass murdering Unprecedentedly Evil Terrorist Osama bin Laden -- so much so that it seems clear that bin Laden is getting his talking points from Dean, Kerry and the New York Times.

So let’s review: It is a despicable act of deranged hatred to call George Bush a "terrorist." But it is perfectly acceptable, even common, to accuse Bush's political opponents of being traitors, committing treason, being on "the other side" (i.e., with the terrorists), and pronouncing that they should hang. And there’s one last rule you don’t want to forget about. It’s from Newt Gingrich, announced on Hannity & Colmes:

"I think it's quite clear as you point out, Sean, that from this tape, that bin Laden and his lieutenants are monitoring the American news media, they're monitoring public opinion polling, and I suspect they take a great deal of comfort when they see people attacking United States policies."

So, according to Newt, anyone who is "attacking United States policies" -- what we in the United States used to call "criticizing the Government" -- is now guilty of giving "a great deal of comfort" to Al Qaeda.

These rules seem very fair and evenly applied and I think we owe it to the country to be a little more diligent in complying with them. After all, if we don’t stop with all of this criticism of the Commander-in-Chief, we might lose our freedoms.

48 comments:

  1. Anonymous2:19 PM

    You forgot one important rule. You can't make Sam Alito's wife cry. If you ask someone who wants to be on the Supreme Court about their membership in horrible organizations, that is way over the line of civility and decency.

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  2. In the Dark Ages the Church used intellectual blackmail to control thought and maintain ideological hegemony. "Believe this or you'll burn in Hell."

    Today Oligarchy uses the same tactic. "Believe this or you'll get blown up by a terrorist."

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  3. Anonymous3:24 PM

    So Harry Belafonte is a traitor. Of course, he served in the US Navy during WWII. Apparently enlisted.

    Has Michelle Malkin served in the US military? Or any of the other critics?

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  4. Part of the problem is that because the *core values* of this bAdmin (and Bush himself) is so far Out-of-the-Mainstream that they couldn’t WIN on the sheer force of their ideas – and haven’t been able to in 40-50 years. They don’t WIN with the Truth.

    So they changed their language to one of “messaging.” They create innocuous sounding proposals, companies or *Think Tanks* -- things Like “American Enterprises Institute” “Heritage Foundation” “US Family Network” “Clear Skies Legislation” “Healthy Forest Initiative” – yada yada - all designed for one purpose, to co-opt the language of moderation and more *conservative* values to WIN.

    But now that they have WON, they simply abandon the actual Principle and Truths of any of those ideas - tho’ the language stayed. Moreoever, what they still can’t change via legislation, the courts or failing to enforce the laws on the books – they simply proceed to literally (not figuratively) rape, pillage, murder, torture and shred their way through the Constitution and laws to get the objectives of their extremist positions implemented. And that of course is *Rove’s Genius* - How to WIN on this stuff. Problem is that the neither Rove nor his bosses are any Genius’ at how to actually govern or run a country.

    And for those of us frustrated and despairing. Those who still believe there is something honorable in aspiring to the old Superman™ adage and ideals of - “Truth, Justice and The American Way” – there is NO Truth anymore. Only the *truthiness* as they define it. And barely any Justice. And for the concept of the American Way (it got raped in Abu Ghraib and hasn’t been seen since.) “Truth, Justice and The American Way” is now a bumper sticker *figurative* description for flag wavers who make noises at this sentiment while they watch it being destroyed before their very eyes. For those who ignore the Truths they can see but refuse to countenance.

    In the old days it was called Yellow Journalism, and people could be faulted for writing that stuff, but it was hard to have access to proper information and as many outlets to seek the facts. But there is NO excuse for what is going on today and such willfulness of deliberate lies and obfuscation of the facts and distortions presented as “balance” in the MSM.

    And some of us still believe in the ability to have that *honest debate* as we Should in this country on all sort of topics. But the conversation has changed when *truth* gets conveniently mugged on its way to the Networks.

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  5. Anonymous4:00 PM

    Great Post! One correction: “...what we in the United States used to call "criticizing the Government"...
    The “criticizing the Government” should read: “treason in wartime”. Carry on.

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  6. Anonymous4:45 PM

    Holding on to a fatally flawed war strategy also gives comfort to the enemy. Accusing those who point out its nature, of treason for giving comfort to the enemy, only consolidates such fatality.

    This script seem to be taken, ipsi literis, from fable of the emperor's clothes.

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  7. Anonymous5:15 PM

    notherbob2, how are you going to feel when one day you say something that they don't like and they call YOU treasonous, as will surely happen sometime in the future? After all, no one could be so insane as to agree with a political party all the time no matter how horrible, how wrong, how devious, how corrupt they become, now can they?

    Oh. I forgot.

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  8. Anonymous5:18 PM

    Glenn -

    If you have the rules applied to everybody then all Conservative debate would end.

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  9. 1. Nothing and no one is immune from criticism.

    2. Everyone involved in a controversy has an intellectual responsibility to inform himself of the available facts.

    3. Criticism should be directed first to policies, and against persons only when they are responsible for policies, and against their motives or purposes only when there is some independent evidence of their character.

    4. Because certain words are legally permissible, they are not therefore morally permissible.

    5. Before impugning an opponent’s motives, even when they legitimately may be impugned, answer his arguments.

    6. Do not treat an opponent of a policy as if he were therefore a personal enemy of the country or a concealed enemy of democracy.

    7. Since a good cause may be defended by bad arguments, after answering the bad arguments for another’s position present positive evidence for your own.

    8. Do not hesitate to admit lack of knowledge or to suspend judgment if evidence is not decisive either way.

    9. Only in pure logic and mathematics, not in human affairs, can one demonstrate that something is strictly impossible. Because something is logically possible, it is not therefore probable. "It is not impossible" is a preface to an irrelevant statement about human affairs. The question is always one of the balance of probabilities. And the evidence for probabilities must include more than abstract possibilities.

    10. The cardinal sin, when we are looking for truth of fact or wisdom of policy, is refusal to discuss, or action which blocks discussion.


    - Sidney Hook, from "The Ethics of Controversy"

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  10. Why do all of you question the policies of our brave and noble leader? I think they are double plus good.

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  11. Anonymous9:27 PM

    HUZZAH! What else is there to say. Thanks again Glenn.

    Oh, and just a quick safety note: when you argue with Wingnuts, be careful to keep your eyes and mouth closed. Little flecks of spittle tend to fly from their rabid foaming mouths. Ewww. Gross, but sadly, true.

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  12. To follow up on Debra's post:

    You also must not offend the delicate sensibilities of the ombudsmen of major newspapers with things like facts.

    Oh, and don't make Jack Abramoff's 12 year-old daughter cry by making silly jokes about his name.

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  13. Anonymous10:10 PM

    Has anybody else noticed that there was this very consistent uniform party line about dissent being treason in the blogosphere, then it was in the mouths of every pundit for the new fake OBL tape, and now Karl Rove came out to prove that he does seem to be awfully openly behind it by re-iterating it yet again himself?

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  14. President Bush Jr. should be treated with all the respect he has shown his office and the American people.

    Which is to say, he should be responded to with smirks, cruel ridicule, incredulous laughter, and mocking scorn. The little punk-ass chump has it coming.

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  15. Anonymous10:45 PM

    Well, if you could trick tabulators with less than 10 lines of VB code, you too could come forth with a Political Strategy like this... and know, without a doubt, you will win-

    Indicted? Who cares, I am running (Ney...)

    Same goes for Delay. If he makes it thru his primary he WILL WIN his election,,, nearly all of them will, until the fraud is exposed-

    Count on it Glenn, the Dems WILL NOT TAKE the Senate, or the House in '06, not as long as Karl Rove is left to manipulate the media, and the machines-

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  16. Anonymous10:48 PM

    Great post. Who the fuck is Harry Belafonte anyhow? Malkin, Mehlman, Goldberg, NRO, Rove and the rest of the party apparatchiks accuse Democrats of treason on a daily basis and it is okay. Then they latch onto some fringe character who hasn't been important since 1972 and pretend he is the spokesperson for the DNC. What a joke. It is Ward Churchill all over.

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  17. Hey, Glenn, when Michael Moore suggested Osama bin Laden had a copy of his movie on his own website the night before Election '04, did he break the rules of acceptable discourse? Just wondering, because you see, this whole ridiculous controversy is the result of an unwillingness to see the difference between making an observation about what talking points someone is choosing to emphasize, and making a statement of moral equivalence - something that Matthews did not do, but Belafonte most assuredly did...

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  18. Anonymous10:55 PM

    President Bush actually fits a number of the criteria for being a terrorist... but he's closer to a dictator than anything else...

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  19. . . . making a statement of moral equivalence - something that Matthews did not do, but Belafonte most assuredly did. . .

    I didn't even mention the Matthews quote. Instead, the quotes I included were from prominent GOP commentators and pundits which declared Howard Dean, Jimmy Carter, John Kerry, Dick Durbin and Jay Rockefeller to be guilty of treason, to be traitors, "on the other side," etc.

    I'd love for someone to tell me how that's different than what Belafonte said. One difference I can think of -- the comments accusing these prominent Democrats of commiting treason were made by leading GOP officials and pundits, not by an 80 year-old retired entertainer.

    Isn't it about time for another George Bush lecture on the differences between responsible v. irresponsible debate?

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  20. Anonymous11:02 PM

    Thanks for the link, but...

    You might want to double check the content of the "guilty of treason" link for John Kerry.

    I like to imagine my sense of humor is subtle, but it ain't that subtle.

    As to content - your strongest link, hands down, is to Rove denouncing Durbin - that is troubling.

    The rest - mostly a bunch of unknowns ripping various people - does little for me. Regrettably, silly opinions are not exactly in short supply amongst the blogs, and I doubt any of the folks you have cited are exactly rule-makers on these points.

    But if your point is, hey, there are extreme opinions on the other side, well, that will never be out of season. For either side.

    And FWIW, on this point - So, according to Newt, anyone who is "attacking United States policies" - what we in the United States used to call "criticizing the Government" - is now guilty of giving "a great deal of comfort" to Al Qaeda. - your outrage is not a rebuttal.

    What might a rebuttal look like?

    Well, Kerry has criticized US policy in not going after Osama hard enough at Tora Bora. Does Newt think that criticism gives aid and comfort to Osama?



    Tom Maguire

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  21. The rest - mostly a bunch of unknowns ripping various people - does little for me.

    Michael Reagan saying that Howard Dean should hang for treason doesn't do much for you?

    And John Hindraker of Time's Blog of the Year accusing a former President of being "on the other side" doesn't do much for you either?

    You might want to double check the content of the "guilty of treason" link for John Kerry.

    I hate when that happens, but in my defense, I was gathering the Kerry-is-a-traitor links quickly and there wasn't exactly a shortage of them. But I'm glad I have a second one to accompany yours.

    What might a rebuttal look like?

    How about:

    "One of the things that has distinguished the United States since its founding is that we have free and zelaous political debates and we can vigorously criticize our elected officials - who do not rule over us but are elected to serve the public interest and work for us - and anyone who loves this country and claims to ascribe to its values ought to encourage those debates rather than trying to squelch them by calling people traitors simply because they dare to disagree with the Commander-in-Chief."

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  22. If the Right and their lackeys in the media think they can hold the Left responsible for whatever Harry Belafonte says, then the wingnuts are obligated to take responsibility for the trash uttered on a daily basis by Ann Coulter and Rush Limbaugh. Fair enough?

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  23. You know, this isn't really that difficult. Harry Belafonte is free to call the President a terrorist and conservative bloggers are free to call him and other Dems a traitor. And you are free to criticize conservative bloggers for so doing.

    So... what's the problem?

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  24. Anonymous11:31 PM

    Glen -

    Perhaps this would be helpful as a list of exemplars of appropriate discourse by Republicans and their apparatchiks:

    They've Got To Be Carefully Taught

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  25. Anonymous11:40 PM

    Glenn, you and your blog truly rock the Casbah. Thank-you for bringing some reason and sanity to the insane asylum once called America.

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  26. Anonymous11:45 PM

    Now Glenn, just the other day in the comments to your post "Saddam copying Bush's talking points?" you correctly noted that those who call the President Hitler are not in the mainstrema media. And now you post this list of those who think Bellafonte is an idiot, as if Rove told them all to do it? I expect better from you.

    Bellafonte making Gestapo assertions (your WaPo link) is as heinous as Michael Reagan calling for the lynching of Dean.

    I thought you were attempting to elevate the debate. I see I was wrong, you too are dedicated to your echo chamber.

    Does then fact the bin Laden is threatening another attack "immediately with the completion of the preparations”
    matter to no one?

    Does anyone in this country think for themself any more? Heaven help us if Chris Matthews, Michael Moore and Harry Belafonte are the gretest minds our times have to offer.

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  27. Tom - If you do come back here (and I know you have a lot of Comment sections to visit), please do follow the link provided by Paperwight. There are a lot more excellent examples there which may move you.

    Pat - When the party which controls all of the branches of government is repeatedly accusing the other party which controls nothing of treason, that's a somewhat significant development worthy of commenting on for reasons that ought to require no elaboration.

    It becomes even more noteworthy when the head of that party - who also happens to be the President - begins giving lectures on the kind of criticism we should be voicing towards him and the kind which we should not be, on the ground that the latter kind constitutes giving "comfort to our adversaries" (i.e., treason).

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  28. Until we have our own station, we will never win.

    You think Murdoch is bad here? He's been pulling the same wool over the Australians eyes since the early-mid 1970s.

    I've been trying to figure out what ended the days of Yellow Journalism. I've never found anything that says.

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  29. Anonymous11:56 PM

    For Bush to wish for 'civilised discourse' is rich irony.

    This guy (and his minions) specialise in non sequitur and many other tricks of the Sophist.

    My late debate coach must have had a wonderful time parsing Bush's lack of logic. I know I have.

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  30. Anonymous12:46 AM

    Come now. Is it possible we have none of Anne Coldsore, I mean, Ann Coulter's civil discourse here about Treason and How to Talk to a Liberal?

    That might take a week of posts. Oy.

    And, Watertiger, whatever you do, do not jack Abram of, not in comments nor any which way.

    Let us now return to more polite topics. Did you hear see how Alito's wife cried when Republican Senator Lindsay Graham was talking and it was all the Democrats' fault?

    Oy.

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  31. When Bush said there is responsible debate and irresponsible debate, he went on to list some examples of irresponsible debate--saying the war was for oil (a common trope of the left) or for Israel (a common trope of David Duke and Cindy Sheehan). You can argue that "or because we misled the American people" shouldn't be in there.

    As for the "it's different because they control all three branches of government," argument, are you seriously suggesting that only the party in opposition can criticize? Nobody's arguing that anybody should actually be tried for treason. It's just rhetoric; inflammatory rhetoric perhaps, but you can hardly argue that both sides don't engage in that from time to time.

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  32. Repeat after me: Who let bin Ladin get away? Who let bin Ladin get away?

    That's what the accusations of treason are about. Bin Ladin and Zawahiri issue statements reminding us that they're still free to make threats. How embarrassing for a President who promised to get bin Ladin dead or alive. So when a pundit starts comparing us to traitors, ask them who let bin Ladin get away?

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  33. Anonymous1:33 AM

    Nobody's arguing that anybody should actually be tried for treason. It's just rhetoric; inflammatory rhetoric perhaps, but you can hardly argue that both sides don't engage in that from time to time.

    The people accusing me of treason because I think and frequently state that the president of my country is a shit-midas who destroys everything he touches -- those are the same people who deliver the administration's talking points, entirely undigested.

    Look, I know it's all rhetoric. On an earlier thread, I dinked hypatia for taking Michael Moore's polemics at face value. But is everyone in on the joke? hypatia, intelligent and politically clued-in as she is, apparently is not.

    And then there's the escalation factor. One wingnut says that radishes are evil, so the next wingnut has to say that they're not only evil but toxic, and then suddenly radishes are evil and toxic and radioactive and carnivorous, and then there's aerial spreading of Agent R, and then a bombing campaign, and then a land invasion, all of which is necessary because a great nation does not back down in the face of radishes. (Or Iraqis.)

    So -- both sides? Michael Moore might steal my fries. Al Gore might bore my pants off, and not even notice. The people who speak for the administration, which controls the vast apparatus of the government? Those people scare me.

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  34. The confusion about 'fairness', 'balance', and 'objectivity' is pretty deeply ingrained in this culture. Extremely intelligent and well-educated people will misuse the terms 'balanced' and 'objective' as if they were interchangeable.

    Nowhere is this more salient than in our mass media, and the Republicans have been exploiting this confusion for all it's worth by staking out more and more extremist views (like "intelligent design" = science or "criticism of Iraq war" = treason) and insisting they be given equal weight in the debate.

    The mass media used to be like referees who come out before the game and inform the contesting teams: "Alright, to be fair and balanced, we're going to call the SAME NUMBER of fouls on each team." And the Republican strategists have behaved like an unscrupulous coach who quickly realizes what a winning approach in such a contest would involve.

    I say "the mass media used to be" that way because it's become painfully obvious that many in the mass media have abandoned even this de minimus neutrality and have become comfortable with simply shilling for the extremist Bush corporatists.



    Ignorance Is Strength

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  35. Anonymous2:51 AM

    I don't think the other side would change a word of what you wrote, Glenn. They would just state it without the irony.

    Even Nixon walked away before producing a constitutional crisis. I remember how we wondered if he would. It's slightly terrifying that this president appears to be spoiling for a fight.

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  36. Anonymous1:00 PM

    >You can't make Sam Alito's wife cry.

    Bartkid sez,
    But if Cindy Sheehan cries, she's unstable and/or faking.

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  37. Pat said...
    You know, this isn't really that difficult. Harry Belafonte is free to call the President a terrorist and conservative bloggers are free to call him and other Dems a traitor. And you are free to criticize conservative bloggers for so doing.

    So... what's the problem?


    The problem is - well, first of all, they must be lying, dumb and/or totalitarian enough to claim that what they're talking about really constitutes treason. But also, the problem is that if you follow their statements to their logical conclusion, then we would no longer be free to make these criticisms, at least not in any meaningful way. The reverse is not true.

    Nobody's arguing that anybody should actually be tried for treason. It's just rhetoric; inflammatory rhetoric perhaps, but you can hardly argue that both sides don't engage in that from time to time.

    They aren't arguing that they should be tried for treason... they're just calling them traitors. That seems like a pretty fine hair you're splitting. Hyperbole is a subtype of dishonesty, not an excuse for it.

    The impression I got from the post is that Greenwald is talking about ethics, not laws. If Glenn found a genie in a bottle and became king for a day, these people would be mocked, maybe even discredited, but that's it. Do you think the same is true of Hinderaker (for example)? I mean, they're either totalitarians or pathological liars.

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  38. Anonymous4:52 PM

    When Bush said there is responsible debate and irresponsible debate, he went on to list some examples of irresponsible debate--saying the war was for oil (a common trope of the left) or for Israel (a common trope of David Duke and Cindy Sheehan). You can argue that "or because we misled the American people" shouldn't be in there.

    And who are you or Bush to decide whether those are "responsible" or "irresponsible" arguments?

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  39. Amazing, isn't it? Even when told how stupid their arguments are, the Rethugs will continually bleat the same old lines about "yer a terrist traitor if you don't say what we want!!1"

    They should volunteer to be brain transplant donors. People would want brains that hadn't been used. </oldjoke>

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  40. In any case, who really gives a shit what our enemies think of our public discourse.

    I don't gauge my public pronouncements by trying to anticipate what Osama would think of it. Are these people actually suggesting that we refrain from debating critical national issues because some fucking terrorist in a cave might be listening, rubbing his hands with glee at our supposed 'treason'??

    It's a meta-debate nightmare. Not only do you have to evaluate what is said in the debate as 'helpful', 'neutral', or 'treasonous', but you have to assume the persona of a terrorist and try to see those statements from their point of view. How could anyone serious believe this is even possible? So Osama says, "Farenheit 911 was fine, but how does it advance my agenda?" Do any of these clowns even know what Al Qaeda's actual agenda is? They think it's:

    1 - Hate Freedom
    2 - Kill Americans
    3 - Release timely videos
    4 - Do some other jihad stuff

    When the debate changes from 'should we be at war' to 'should we discuss whether or not we should be at war', you've already lost, dude.

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  41. Anonymous8:27 PM

    Of course, now that anyone can be wiretapped because they are irresponsibly critical of the administration's actions, I wonder what's stopping them from wiretapping Henry Reid, Hillary Clinton, or whomever they deem "irresponsibly" treasonous?

    See, whether the label is "over the top" rhetoric, real or feigned, if it falls into this perceived category, it allows the administration to bug the opposition. Would they do that? Naw....

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  42. Anonymous9:00 PM

    I have heard that one of the few luxuries Osama permits himself is a portable battery powered DVD player and flatscreen telelvision, suitably for play in the caves in which he hides out. Somehow, he was able to procure DVDs of Fahrenheit 911, Good Night and Good Luck, and Brokeback Mountain. He has screened them several times and takes great comfort, not only in the entertainment that these movies provided him, but also in what these movies say about division within the United States.

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  43. Anonymous9:04 PM

    "In any case, who really gives a shit what our enemies think of our public discourse."

    Sorry, dude, that's pre-911 thinking. Now we have learned that oceans cannot protect us and that if our enemies don't like what we're saying, they may come over here and attack us. Thank God we have a president who understands that.

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  44. DougJ -

    I heard Osama was particularly comforted by 'Brokeback Mountain'. Repeatedly.

    Gets lonely in them caves.

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  45. Anonymous9:38 PM

    Repeat after me: Who let bin Ladin get away? Who let bin Ladin get away?

    Easy: William Jefferson Clinton

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  46. Anonymous12:24 AM

    anonymous said: Repeat after me: Who let bin Ladin get away? Who let bin Ladin get away?

    Easy: William Jefferson Clinton

    The world must've missed that bit when Clinton was running the Tora Bora operation.

    Best president you ever had.

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  47. I think criticism should properly be against our media culture. Sound bites make headlines. Calling someone a traitor or a nazi is just more newsworthy than saying their ideas are illconceived. Here's to bread, circuses and the media.

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  48. im over welmed at how many have posted to your blog and i know why i stumbled on it on a site great reads wow i cant wait to read more and the responces what a great rounded views Be safe walk in peace allways

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