Friday, March 03, 2006

More conservatives jump ship & other matters

(updated below)

Following are several observations about Iraq, the NSA scandal, and some brief but necessary intra-blog issues. For your reading convenience, if you are one of those people who dislike self-referential blog items, you can skip items (2)-(4):

(1) Yet another conservative, National Review’s John Derbyshire, yesterday acknowledged that the war in Iraq has been a failure and the only thing left for Bush to do is to figure out a way to withdraw while minimizing both the political damage to Republicans and the national security damage to our country. Derbyshire’s concession that the war is a failure followed on the heels of similar admissions from the Father of Modern Conservatism, Bill Buckley, and George Will:

Well, I'm with Bill Buckley and George Will. This pig's ear is never going to be made into a silk purse, not by any methods or expenditures the American people are willing to countenance. The only questions worth asking about Iraq at this point are: How does GWB get out of this with the least damage to US interests, and to his party's future prospects? I wish I had some answers.

And what is Derbyshire’s assessment of the probability that Bush can succeed in making defeat look less disastrous than it really is? "Low to zero." As Hypatia insightfully observed in a Comment yesterday:

Derb -- who holds some views I find repugnant -- has a background in science and math, and is a consummate rationalist. His mind and temperament are of the type that do not permit the whistling past the graveyard, denial and various other strained antics still seen in most Bush supporters commenting online.

Isn’t it going to become increasingly difficult for Bush followers to shift the blame for their disastrous war project onto "liberals" when so many conservatives are declaring the whole thing to be a smashing defeat? Obviously, that won’t stop them from trying – facts never do – but these defections and heresies will make doing so much more difficult.

(2) I will be on The Al Franken Show (with Sam Seder) today on Air America at 2:34 p.m. EST, along with columnist Joe Conasan, to discuss "the news of the day." You can listen on your local affiliate or to the live audio stream here.

(3) Many people, both in Comments and by e-mail, have expressed the view that the quality of the discussion in the Comments section has degenerated over the past couple of weeks, primarily due to the unproductive, repetitious recitation of empty talking points by a handful of commenters who post between 20 and 25 times each after each post.

I’ve previously described my views about online debates, comments sections, and my opposition to banning people and/or deleting comments. Those views have not changed. But yesterday, one Commenter mentioned the "Collapse Comments" function at the top of each comment thread. Clicking on that collapses all comments into a list of names of the commenters, so that you can click on the names of those whose comments you want to read, and skip the ones you do not. If you are so inclined, I strongly encourage you to use that function. It works quite well and is easy to use.

(4) Blogads has some sort of survey up and I have no idea what the purpose of it is, but I’ve seen almost every blogger on the planet ask their readers to take the survey and enter the name of their blog under question #23. I honestly have no idea what value there is in that or what great honors are bestowed on a blogger for having one's blog entered in question #23, but there must be something. So, not wanting to be excluded from the blogger glory that must somehow result from having your blog entered in that special field, here is the link for the survey.

(5) The Maine/Nebraska phase of our campaign to target local newspapers and radio shows is continuing. If you have any connection to either of those two states, you can achieve a lot by taking a little bit of time to send in a Letter to the Editor or, a little more ambitiously, submitting an Op-Ed, explaining why it is so imperative that the Senate Intelligence Committee hold hearings on the NSA scandal.

The vote on Sen. Rockefeller’s motion to hold hearings is scheduled for March 7, and it’s been reported that both Sen. Hagel and Sen. Snowe have been leaning towards supporting the motion. That type of localized discussion can make a substantial difference, especially in small states.

Jane Hamsher has a post outlining the logistics for how we are coordinating this, and Thersites at Vichy Democrats has all of the contact information you need here. I’ve laid out some points that can be used here, although these letters and Op-Eds should be all individually expressed. Anyone with any connections to those states is strongly encouraged to submit something.

(6) Yesterday, I discussed what I thought were the most significant revelations from Alberto Gonzales’ letter to the Senate Judiciary Committee. Here are several other important points which I did not discuss:

(a) Gonzales' letter makes clear that when the warrantless surveillance program began, the sole justification for it was the belief that the President has unfettered power to take action with regard to national security matters even if it means engaging in conduct which the Congress has criminalized by law. The purported belief that the AUMF constituted Congressional authorization to act outside of FISA came much later, almost certainly in 2004 (at the earliest) when DoJ lawyers (like Comey and Goldsmith) were insisting that the program was illegal. As a result, the Administration needed to find a legal justification for it, which caused them to stumble into the AUMF and then start claiming that it "clearly" constituted such authorization.

Thus, any claims that the Administration believed that its program was authorized by Congress when it commenced this program are false. Instead, as Hilzoy astutely points out, when Bush first ordered the NSA to eavesdrop without warrants, the Administration knew they were acting contrary to FISA but did so anyway based solely on the Yoo Theory that the President has the unfettered power to do anything he wants, even commit criminal offenses, with all matters relating to national security.

(b) For the first time ever, Gonzales admitted that the NSA program was implemented before the Patriot Act was passed. As Orin Kerr explains:

The NSA surveillance program was authorized by the President very soon after 9/11. Specifically, it had already been authorized by the time the President signed the Patriot Act into law on October 26, 2001.

The Patriot Act, of course, amended FISA by liberalizing the President's eavesdropping powers in all of the ways the President requested. Had the President really believed that FISA was too restrictive to allow necessary eavesdropping, he could have simply asked Congress as part of the Patriot Act -- which was not yet passed when the warrantless NSA program was implemented -- for additional amendments to enable him to do everything within the FISA framework that he had ordered the NSA to do outside of FISA.

Is this not conclusive proof that what the Administration really wanted was not liberalized eavesdropping powers (which they could have had as part of the Patriot Act but did not pursue)? Clearly, what they wanted instead was the ability to eavesdrop without any judicial oversight.

(c) At the hearing, Sen. Feingold asked Gonzales: "Do you know of any other President who has authorized warrantless wiretaps outside of FISA since 1978 when FISA was passed?"

In his letter, Gonzales replied: "If the question is limited to electronic surveillance as defined in FISA . . . we are unaware of any such authorizations."

In a world where intellectual honesty reigned, Bush followers would immediately cease propagating the myth that "Clinton and Carter did it, too."

(d) Anonymous Liberal makes an excellent point about the obvious contradiction in claiming, on the one hand, that Congress' renewal of the Patriot Act is so very vital to our nation's ability to protect itself, while on the other hand, claiming that the President has magic Article II powers which authorizes him to do anything he wants to protect the nation with or without Congressional authorization. These are the types of glaring contradictions in governmental statements which our national media never points out. That, at the moment, is a serious failure in how our country is supposed to work.

(7) Sen. Byrd yesterday introduced legislation to create an independent Commission to investigate, among other things, the law-breaking issues raised by the NSA scandal. He issued an extremely potent and on-point statement explaining why such an investigation was urgently needed (h/t McJoan):

These concerns have, of course, been dismissed by the same branch of government that hatched the domestic spying program. But this stonewalling is only part of the story. Important questions about NSA's program have been answered with strained and tenuous justifications, or claims of the dire need for secrecy and, as a result, Congress's access to information has been severely curtailed by the Administration. . . .

We know that in a February 28 letter to Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Arlen Specter, Attorney General Gonzales admitted that the Justice Department's legal justification for the wiretaps has "evolved over time." What does that mean? Does it mean that there actually was no legal basis for the NSA to spy on American citizens when it first began the surveillance? Does it mean the Department had to "gin up" some legal basis for the spying once the program became public? Does it mean the Administration's reliance on the use of force resolution to justify its snooping was simply a ploy, an "after-the-fact" face-saving device meant to give the Administration "cover" for having violated Americans' civil liberties?

In fact, it is because our forefathers were fearful of recreating the same tyrannous form of government from which many of them had fled, that the Bill of Rights was
added to the Constitution to better secure, for all time, the freedom from oppression that ever looms from an overly powerful executive.


In a climate of fear, liberties have been sacrificed time and again under the guise of keeping the Nation from harm. Fear is a powerful tool for manipulation, useful for easing the American people out of their liberties and into submission. When the public is confronted with a situation, real or imagined, that inspires fear, they rightfully look to their leaders for protection from foreboding consequences. The claim of wartime necessity always strengthens a President. And often facts are sealed from the prying eyes of Congress by a purported need for secrecy.

But, Senators have a sworn duty to check executive power in times of crisis or otherwise. We are each bound to defend the Constitution, and the liberties it gives to all Americans, in times of peace and war. History has shown us many times that a climate of fear can take a hefty toll on our freedoms. Worse still, are liberties surrendered in vain, resulting in little added security.


Sen. Byrd is facing a tough re-election fight in a purple state. That fact has led him this year to take prominent stands which were popular in his state that he might not otherwise have taken -- such as his vigorous opposition to the Alito filibuster and ultimate support for Alito's ascension to the Court. And here, he has chosen to take a very principled and aggressive stand on the NSA issue. Democrats in Washington: does that tell you anything?

There are people, including many prominent conservatives and, increasingly, Democrats in Washington, who understand why this scandal constitutes such a profound threat to the principles on which our system of government is based. They are starting to be heard from more and more, and as I’ve said many times, the more stonewalling the Administration engages in, the more "strained and tenuous justifications, or claims of the dire need for secrecy" they make in order to impede investigations and conceal what they did, the more this scandal will grow.

UPDATE: A commenter points to this article from today's Washington Post, which reports that (the absolutely odious) Rep. Jane Harman faxed a letter to Gonzales asking if there are currently any other warrantless eavesdropping programs aimed at Americans, and Gonzales then called her on the phone and -- as reported by Harman -- "assured (her) that there is not a broader program or an additional program out there involving surveillance of U.S. persons."

Gonzales' denial, at least as Harman conveyed it, purports to comment on what the Administration is doing currently, not what they have done in the past. If they stopped eavesdropping on domestic communications yesterday, Gonzales' statement would be technically accurate.

Here's one question raised by the oddity of how this denial was issued: If Gonzales can call Jane Harman on the telephone and tell her that there are no domestic eavesdropping programs currently in place (and then presumably authorize Harman to tell this to The Washington Post), why couldn't Gonazles have just answered the multiple questions that were asked when he was testifying about this three weeks ago? When he was asked while testifying if there were other warrantless eavesdropping programs, he refused to answer on the ground that such information was super-secret. How come he could answer that question to Jane Harman on the telephone but not the Committee while testifying?

And, since Gonzales has now commented on whether there are any current warrantless domestic eavesdropping programs, there is no conceivable rationale for refusing to say if there were any such programs in the past. Maybe Jane Harman can call her friend Alberto back for another chat and ask that question and then tell us what he says.

120 comments:

  1. Anonymous9:05 AM

    Democrats should get behind Sen. Byrd's proposal! It only seeks to investigate, and there is no way, given the poll numbers, that Democrats can be afraid to investigate the eavesdropping stuff.

    And you make an excellent point. Say what you want about Bobby Byrd. He's been around and has survived for a long time in a politically difficult state. He has great political instincts, and the fact that he's speaking out so hard on this issue DOES reflect that Democrats can BENEFIT from standing up for the rule of law.

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  2. Anonymous9:19 AM

    Lead off paragraphs from WAPO story today:

    Gonzales Denies More Extensive Domestic Spying

    By Charles Babington
    Washington Post Staff Writer
    Friday, March 3, 2006; Page A04

    Attorney General Alberto R. Gonzales told a key House Democrat yesterday that the administration is not conducting any warrantless domestic surveillance programs beyond the one that President Bush has acknowledged, the Democrat said in an interview.

    Rep. Jane Harman (D-Calif.) said Gonzales was responding to a fax she sent him Wednesday after she read a news account of his Feb. 28 letter to two senators. In the letter, Gonzales appeared to suggest there might be domestic wiretap operations that extend beyond the outlines Bush acknowledged in December. Gonzales asked to clarify his Feb. 6 testimony that the president's acknowledged use of the National Security Agency for domestic surveillance "is all that he has authorized." "I did not and could not address . . . any other classified intelligence activities," Gonzales wrote to the senators......


    Also in WAPO:

    NSA: Spying at Home
    Analysis:Limiting NSA Spying Is Inconsistent With Rationale, Critics Say
    Activists on Right, GOP Lawmakers Divided on Spying
    Surveillance Net Yields Few Suspects


    Glenn, what is to be made of these new statements of Gonazles?

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  3. Anonymous9:25 AM

    I never listened to airamerica before. Does anyone know what station (and if it is AM or FM) that program is on in NYC?

    Thank you.

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  4. Anonymous9:30 AM

    Air America is 1190 on AM in NYC, but the live Internet feed is really good too.

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  5. Glenn, what is to be made of these new statements of Gonazles?

    Thanks for pointing this out. I added an update to the post about it.

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  6. Anonymous9:59 AM

    EYES WIDE OPEN

    I have decided to identify myself with the above name from now on, so people can read or scroll by my posts as they choose.

    Lead off from Yahoo story:

    SYDNEY, Australia - Human rights abuses in Iraq are as bad now as they were under Saddam Hussein, as lawlessness and sectarian violence sweep the country, the former U.N. human rights chief in Iraq said Thursday.

    John Pace, who last month left his post as director of the human rights office at the U.N. Assistance Mission for Iraq, said the level of extra-judicial executions and torture is soaring, and morgue workers are being threatened by both government-backed militia and insurgents not to properly investigate deaths.

    "Under Saddam, if you agreed to forgo your basic right to freedom of expression and thought, you were physically more or less OK," Pace said in an interview with The Associated Press. "But now, no. Here, you have a primitive, chaotic situation where anybody can do anything they want to anyone."


    I find this story a very powerful indictment of the terror our Iraq escapade has brought to the life of the average Iraqi citizen. As bad as it is not to live in a democratic society where freedom of expression is permitted, it is worse to be living in a society where your life and those of your loved ones can be snuffed out randomly at any moment, where at any time your door can be knocked down for no reason, you can be spirited away by a group of thugs, and you can be tortured and killed for no reason. It appears a climate of true terror is enveloping Iraq.

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  7. Anonymous10:02 AM

    EYES WIDE OPEN - When leaving a comment, you have to click on "OTHER" under the comment back and then enter your name in the field provided. If you do it the way you are doing it, it will be listed as "Anonymous" - you have to put the name you want in the OTHER line below the comment box.

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  8. When he was asked while testifying if there are other programs, he refused to answer on the ground that such information was super-secret. How come he could answer that question to Jane Harman on the telephone?


    Because he’d be called on it if he did it while testifying, and he won’t be called upon it in a telephone call. In the off-hand chance some journalist takes their job seriously and asks that question, it will be spun away as if there is no conflict or contradiction, it was just a phone call and, well, you know “background information” or whatever.

    In other words, he could do it in a phone call because he was confident he could get away with it.

    P.S. Thanks for mentioning the "Collapse Comments" – I hope that works. Yesterday’s comment thread was such a useless troll-fest that I just gave up ever reading the comment section again, let alone bothering to participate.

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  9. Anonymous10:17 AM

    Have you seen this article?

    Bush: U.S. should welcome Indian competition

    In India, president furthers effort to nurture countries’ economic ties

    HYDERABAD, India - President Bush urged Americans worried about a U.S. job drift to India and other countries to welcome, not fear, competition with this rapidly growing nation of 1 billion.

    [That's right. Stop whining about our loss of jobs and the decline of our middle class, and celebrate "competition" between all the earnings Big Corporations can now rake in by not paying American wages and the un- or underemployed here in America!

    But don't worry! Those corporations still get all their tax cuts, as if they were paying people right here in the US.]

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  10. Anonymous10:19 AM

    "In a world where intellectual honesty reigned, Bush"
    LOL! Thanks, Glenn, I needed a laugh.

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  11. Define irony: While their conversation is recorded by the NSA, Rep. Harman is informed by the Attorney General that there are no other programs in place to spy on Americans.

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  12. Thank you for that very insightful post.

    Your observations about conservatives compel me to say a few words.
    You wrote:
    "Isn’t it going to become increasingly difficult for Bush followers to shift the blame for their disastrous war project onto "liberals" when so many conservatives are declaring the whole thing to be a smashing defeat?"

    I visit several conservative blogs, I find that conservatives can be very undiscerning, of course I am generalizing. This is not to say that Liberals are not blinded by ideology, but liberals are currently on the "outside looking in" in terms of political clout.

    What I've been wondering, and maybe this is a question for a sociologist, is when is enough enough?
    At what point must you stop ignoring failure to admit defeat. Obviously the more brilliant conservative thinkers are capable of being intellectually honest, but from my personal observation, the rank and file conservative is not ready to admin defeat and likely won't be ready anytime soon.

    Unfortunately this phenomenon grants more political capital to the Bush Administration, which translates to more bad policies.

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  13. Anonymous10:52 AM

    ever since the iraq attack began there have been speculations as to the "real" reason the neocons and bush instigated it. i now believe that the most powerful motive was the clear advantage the administration gained in achieving it's power grab during a time of war. all the neocons were around during the gulf war and other military operations and saw how easily the congress and news media could be controlled if you had the will to push it. all the other reasons given are still in play but this feels like the kind of meat that would really excite these guys.

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  14. Anonymous10:56 AM

    Thank you Richard. I didn't know that.

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  15. Anonymous11:07 AM

    I complete my morning wrap-up of news items with the excerpt below. I wonder if it makes sense to share our nuclear technology with a country which is not party to the Nuclear Non-Proliferation agreement. Should Congress approve this agreement?

    Bush wants to sell technology and fuel to India and back democratic counterweight to China

    PRESIDENT BUSH marked his first visit to India yesterday by sealing a landmark nuclear energy deal.
    The agreement ....allows India to buy nuclear technology and fuel from the US to power its fast-growing economy.

    It marks a major shift in American policy towards India, which Washington punished with sanctions after it conducted nuclear weapons tests in 1998.

    “Things change,” Mr Bush said as he announced the deal with Manmohan Singh, the Prime Minister of India.“It’s in our interests that India have a civilian nuclear industry to help take the pressure off of the global demand for energy.”

    The US Congress has yet to approve the agreement, and there is some opposition to a deal that rewards a country that has not signed the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty and sends an uncertain message to North Korea and Iran.

    India will list 14 of its 22 nuclear facilities as civilian and open them to international observers. US negotiators agreed to keep India’s experimental fast breeder reactor off the civilian list.

    China, India’s northern neighbour, was more cautious, urging India to dismantle its nuclear weapons.

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  16. Anonymous11:20 AM

    Hodnipps-Though you rightly point out that the administration is using its 'war powers' to slowly and consistantly erode the protections of the constitution, the true reason for the invsion of Iraq is that the roads to both Tehran and Damascus lead through Baghdad. There will be an attept at regime change in one of these two other nations and it is vitally important that Americans are woken up to what is going on. Imagine what this administration will try to pull when they pull the Iranian nuclear card.

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  17. Anonymous11:21 AM

    "Here's one question raised by the oddity of how this denial was issued: If Gonzales can call Jane Harman on the telephone and tell her that there are current domestic eavesdropping programs currently in place (and then presumably authorize Harman to tell this to The Washington Post), why couldn't Gonazles have just answered the multiple questions that were asked when he was testifying about this three weeks ago?"

    And here's another question raised by the oddity of how this denial was issued: Why did he reply by phone and not in writing?

    I can hear Gonzales' testimony now, "there must have been a miscommunication in our conversation. I did not intend to say ...."

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  18. Anonymous11:50 AM

    For the more culturally inclined -

    Does growing the conservative critique of Iraq and the NSA wiretapping scandal qualify as farce, melodrama or Kubuki Theatre?

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  19. John Yoo is going to go down in history.

    I hope he doesn't ruin the reputation of Berkeley Law for hiring him. What were they thinking?

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  20. Compare Jane Harman's "faxed" letter and phoned back reply to Rockefeller's secret letter to Cheney and then lockboxed copy. Perculiar trust/verify/exposure thing going on that a member who is in the loop, asks a national security question in a very public way, is reponded to by phone. Guess the AG is a little sensitive about emails these days.

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  21. Anonymous12:06 PM

    Time for action. Call these two and tell them we expect them to support Senator Rockefeller's motion.

    Toll-free Senate Switchboard #: 888-355-3588

    Hagel, Chuck (R - NE)
    Tel: (202) 224-4224
    Fax: (202) 224-5213
    chuck_hagel@hagel.senate.gov

    Snowe, Olympia J. (R - ME)
    Tel: (202) 224-5344
    Tel: (800) 432-1599 (toll free number in Maine)
    Fax: (202) 224-1946
    olympia@snowe.senate.gov

    It's vital they get enough calls to assure they won't cave, so stop reading this blog for a minute and make that call!

    You too, Glenn. Get on the phone!

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  22. Anonymous12:13 PM

    How come he could answer that question to Jane Harman on the telephone?

    Easy. He can lie to Harman without worrying about the consequences when the lie is revealed. ("Oh, she must have misunderstood what I was saying.") Plus, Harman is the "useful fool" to be used and discarded as and when necessary.

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  23. Anonymous12:22 PM

    hodnipps said...
    " i now believe that the most powerful motive was the clear advantage the administration gained in achieving its power grab during a time of war..."
    I think you are right on with this observation. As Glenn has consistently stressed, the administration's obsession with the unitary executive concept is a prism through which all of its actions must be refracted in shedding light on its actions.
    Now, if the administration should succeed in writing the laws to meet its requirements, as in the proposed DeWine proposal, the question is whether they will continue to hold that even this act of congress is irrelevant and subservient to the executive's claimed constitutional powers. To be consistent with the unitary executive priority, that would pose an interesting paradoxical question. Plus, raise the constitutional crisis we are now are in to a new level.

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  24. As conservatives begin to admit that the War on Iraq is a disaster, I notice that they express very little concern for the suffering people of Iraq. They worry about the future of the Bush administration and the Republican party, but I don't hear them uttering a word about how we can make things right with the families who have been devastated.

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  25. Anonymous12:26 PM

    Armando writes:
    You ask why Gonzo could notgive a straight answer. I'll give you my theory - by now Gonzo is sacred shitless to say anyhting without giving himself wiggle room, cuz he may be asked to go up and explain another lie.


    This is almost certainly true. When the stories came out about Comey, Goldsmith and other conservative lawyers/staff resigning or being pushed out of the Bush Admin for dissenting over illegal programs, it was mentioned that some had actually hired private lawyers to assess what exposure they had if these programs came to light.

    Bush leaves office in January '09. If a Dem, or even a sane Republican takes over the Executive at that time, all the shenanigans come into their view, including manifest lies. Seems to me this whole scandal may eventually see Gonzalez and others jumping ship out of enlightened self interest. Gonzalez had a good reputation as a lawyer and then TX S. Ct. judge, and he cannot possibly want to fall on a sword of lying and defending illegalities, not even for George Bush -- not unless he is already in it so deep that he has no choice but to pray the bleeding stops.

    There have to be others who are becoming very anxious who are still in the Administration, and it is entirely possible we will eventually hear from them, as they seek to cover their butts.

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  26. Anonymous12:35 PM

    Stan writes: As Glenn has consistently stressed, the administration's obsession with the unitary executive concept is a prism through which all of its actions must be refracted in shedding light on its actions.

    Never have I seen Glenn say, much less stress, that there is a problem with the Administration's "unitary executive" theory. I do not necessarily hold any objections to the unitary executive theory, which was well developed before the Bush Adminstration, and makes a good deal of sense as a separation of powers matter.

    Nothing in that theory would justify Bush's belief that he may simply violate the law. That's why Al Gore, in his speech denouncing the NSA illegalities, instead referred to Bush's unilateral executive theory.

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  27. Anonymous12:36 PM

    We (the US of A) need a drumbeat, and a drumbeat is what you give us, Glenn.

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  28. Anonymous12:50 PM

    With all the recent commentary and 'statements' concerning the NSA wiretapping, I'm struck by one thing: none of those speaking in public support of it make any intelligible legal case that this program or its fellows is within the President's statutory authority. The whole 'unitary Executive authority' sounds like an artful but clumsy dodge, depending on a dangerously generous reading of Article II of the Constitution.

    Am I wrong here? Has someone tried to defend this nonsense within the US Code *without* resorting to 'unitary Executive' claims?

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  29. Glenn Greenwald writes:

    Yet another conservative, National Review’s John Derbyshire, yesterday acknowledged that the war in Iraq has been a failure and the only thing left for Bush to do is to figure out a way to withdraw...

    Glenn has made an embarrassing mistake. John Derbyshire has indeed called upon the U.S. to leave Iraq, but he didn't do so yesterday, or even last month. The Derb did so exactly thirteen months ago, in a column entitled Nice Election, Now Let's Get Out of There.

    An excerpt:

    I am — just bite down hard and say it, man — with Senator Edward Kennedy on this. I want U.S. forces to leave Iraq ASAP. If the place then descends into chaos, I'm fine with it. What's that you say? It would be awful hard on the Iraqis? Probably so. It would certainly be hard on those brave, civic-minded Iraqis — there are plenty of them — who would like to see constitutional government in their nation. However, there are people like that all over the world — there are scads of them in China, including some personal friends of mine. (To be a bit more precise, there are scads of them who are Chinese, though many now live in the West.) We can only do so much. God knows, we have done enough for Iraq, with blood and treasure. The rest is up to the Iraqis. If they make a pig's ear of it, that's a shame, but I can't see why it's our problem. There are lots of messed-up countries in the world. Iraq will be another one.

    John Derbyshire has been for immediate withdrawal from Iraq for a least a year. I'm afraid Glenn will have to subtract his name from the "more conservatives jump ship" list. Derbyshire doesn't add another name to the list. He's been there all along.

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  30. Anonymous1:03 PM

    Glenn and other commentors -

    Can you provide more detail on your opinion of Rep. Harman ? From some of the comments, I get the sense that folks see her as a 'useful idiot'. She has an A-list of advisors on her SecureUSpac. I was under the impression that she's largely picked up the ball that Bob Graham dropped when he left the senate and personally I think that's the strongest national security position the Dems have. Steve Clemons is a fan of hers as well.

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  31. Anonymous1:05 PM

    As most readers here likely know from Glenn's posts, Bruce Fein is a Reagan-era DoJ lawyer and Con Law expert, who has been denouncing George Bush's law-breaking in no uncertain terms, and he even has suggested impeachment. Fein endorses the unitary executive theory, and I also tend to embrace it:

    Ditto for the idea of a unitary executive branch in which every important executive official is removable at the will of the president to insure a coherent and evenhanded of administration of the laws. If executive branch mavericks or rebels are protected from removal for warring against the president's policies, chaos and irresponsibility are risked. Imagine the absurdity, for example, of a secretary of defense opposed to President Bush's war policies in Iraq or Afghanistan.

    Rest here. That theory does not remotely justify Bush's law-breaking and monarchical claims. It is a theory that would benefit all Presidents, Dem and GOP, to make sure their Executive branch appointees are actually implementing their policies -- but it contemplates that those policies must be legal.

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  32. Anonymous1:14 PM

    John Derbyshire has been for immediate withdrawal from Iraq for a least a year. I'm afraid Glenn will have to subtract his name from the "more conservatives jump ship" list. Derbyshire doesn't add another name to the list. He's been there all along.

    That Derbyshire quote from a year ago doesn't say that the U.S. lost in Iraq and failed in its mission. It just says there is no reason to try to succeed in the mission.

    Yesterday was the first Derbyshire quote that I've seen where he actually says that U.S. has failed. The only embarrassment is you.

    What matters it that conservatives are against the Leninist war that we are fighting in Iraq, to export our values and shape the world for good. Derbyshire is yet another honest conservative to point out how un-conservative this whole stupid Israel-based war is.

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  33. The government was able to get information that UBL was planning to fly planes into buildings without using the warantless wiretaps. What is the point of trampling the Constitution if you're just going to ignore the information anyway?

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  34. Anonymous1:17 PM

    I apologize for feeding the pathetic trolls here yesterday. Perhaps we can all do better to ignore the obvious ones from here on in.

    It was inappropriate for me to jump in to a community new to me and not first try to understand the specific culture of interaction first.

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  35. That Derbyshire quote from a year ago doesn't say that the U.S. lost in Iraq and failed in its mission. It just says there is no reason to try to succeed in the mission.

    Glenn said Derbyshire "jumped ship" based on a column Derb wrote the other day. Derb jumped ship over a year ago.

    I am sure Glenn will admit his mistake here and move on.

    ReplyDelete
  36. Anonymous1:29 PM

    The answer to your question might be 18 USC 1001. If he lied to the Senate Judiciary Committee, he commits a crime because the statute requires truthful answers when he's being asked with the "authority of the committee. " If a lone member of the minority sua sponte asks him a question via letter (or otherwise), there's an argument in the statute that it's just lying, not "lying to Congress."

    And besides, if you really believe in the easter bunny (er, unitary executive), it's not a far leap to say that the president exercising his commander in chief powers has the authority to keep this activity secret and even dissemble when communicating in unclassified channels.

    ReplyDelete
  37. Re contacting Snowe. I did that about an hour ago. The staffer I spoke to was very defensive, stonewalled at first, saying that the Intel Committee's work is classified. I said that the vote to hold hearings certainly is not, and that I'd like to know how the senator planned to vote. He repeated the classified thing a couple more times, then retreated to "She has made no public statement on this issue."

    I'd say the heat's turned up pretty high right now. I've talked to her office a couple of times in the past, and they were not nearly this defensive.

    ReplyDelete
  38. Anonymous1:47 PM

    Sen. Byrd: "Fear is a powerful tool for manipulation, useful for easing the American people out of their liberties and into submission."

    Me: Pres. Bush is a powerful tool for manipulation, useful for easing the American people out of their liberties and into submission.

    ReplyDelete
  39. If a lone member of the minority sua sponte asks him a question via letter (or otherwise), there's an argument in the statute that it's just lying, not "lying to Congress."

    My question about why Gonzales refused to answer the Committee and only answered on the telephone was rhetorical. It's clearly due to both of the reasons given here by several commenters: (a) it's not a criminal offense to lie to Jane Harman on the phone but it is when testifying (even without an oath) to the Committee; and (b) having Harman report the conversation always leaves all sorts of deniability about exactly what he said, etc. They made the denial so third-hand. If he wanted to do this through the press, couldn't Gonzales have just called the Post himself (but then the ability to deny what he said is lessened).

    Independently, David Shaughnessy is absolutely right about everything he is saying. The next week is critical. None of the proposals they are discussing, to my knowledge, would absolve the Administration of prior wrongdoing or bar any sort of proceeding, but the practical effect of a deal of that sort would surely be to take the winds out of those sails (especially since so many Democrats want, even on a subconscious level, for this issue to go away).

    I still don't think that will happen for the reasons I've described, but many Bush followers are certainly trying, and I could easily be wrong - so, as many phone calls, Letters to Editors, and Op-Eds as possible are urgently necessary, particularly to Snowe and Hagel - and even to Roberts.

    ReplyDelete
  40. Anonymous1:54 PM

    From today's WAPO:

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/03/02/AR2006030202054

    Bush administration lawyers, fighting a claim of torture by a Guantanamo Bay detainee, yesterday argued that the new law that bans cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment of detainees in U.S. custody does not apply to people held at the military prison.

    As a laissez faire capitalist, I have always been a Republican. But because I have always felt that politics in general is corrupt so why bother wasting time on it, I have been largely apolitical in the last 15 years.

    Two things caused me to open my eyes recently:

    l) The Patriot Act and other intrusions into an individual's privacy that bothered me even before I learned of the NSA program. I suddenly realized that Big Brother was no longer just getting closer. He was here.

    2) Torture. When I read that our government was engaging in sanctioned, ritualized torture, I thought that was a baseless allegation made by war opponents. When I discovered it was not, I entered into a state of shock from which I have not yet recovered.

    After I "woke up" and looked around, I discovered, of course, the insanity of this Administration and of the people in this country who have knowingly supported its policies.

    So that's why I keep coming back to the torture issue. If a person can sanction the torture of other human beings, except in the most extreme circumstances which are so rare as to never come up and need not be addressed, that is a person who has lost his soul, if he ever had one.

    I hope the issue of torture and the depraved but increasingly widespread acceptance of sadistic policies enacted by perverted human beings under the guise of fighting terrorism comes to the forefront in the months ahead.

    And when it does, I hope there will finally be a discussion of Opus Dei, and its role in the judicial system in this country.

    ReplyDelete
  41. Anonymous1:57 PM

    Sorry. That was a Freudian slip. Because I can't stand to even think about torture, I wrote Eyes Wide Shut, but I am, finally, Eyes Wide Open.

    ReplyDelete
  42. Anonymous2:04 PM

    anon writes:
    That Derbyshire quote from a year ago doesn't say that the U.S. lost in Iraq and failed in its mission. It just says there is no reason to try to succeed in the mission.


    Exactly. I've been an NRO reader virtually since it came online, and so was aware that last year Derb felt it was time to get out. He had been ambivalent about the possibility of success there, however, and had not affirmatively opposed the war.

    It stands to reason, given human nature, that those conservatives who sensibly had misgivings about the "Leninist neocon" motives for the war, would be emotionally and intellectually able to admit defeat in advance of those who are ideologically invested -- quite heavily -- in the nation-building promise of the venture.

    My own reasons for having supported the war in Iraq(reasons I set forth here months ago) were not those of the neocons, and that would also partially explain why I have been able to recognize that it is a failure. Reality will eventually require even some neocons to admit that Iraq is a mess, because, for one thing, that is how the American public sees it.

    ReplyDelete
  43. Glenn said...

    (a) Gonzales' letter makes clear that when the warrantless surveillance program began, the sole justification for it was the belief that the President has unfettered power to take action with regard to national security matters even if it means engaging in conduct which the Congress has criminalized by law. The purported belief that the AUMF constituted Congressional authorization to act outside of FISA came much later, almost certainly in 2004 (at the earliest) when DoJ lawyers (like Comey and Goldsmith) were insisting that the program was illegal. As a result, the Administration needed to find a legal justification for it, which caused them to stumble into the AUMF and then start claiming that it "clearly" constituted such authorization.

    Thus, any claims that the Administration believed that its program was authorized by Congress when it commenced this program are false.


    You should know better than that as an attorney...

    The fact that the President relied upon one legal authority at the beginning hardly precludes him from asserting additional legal authorities at a later time.

    This issue begins and ends with the President's plenary Article II power as CiC and Congress' lack of a concurrent enumerated Article I power over the direction and performance of intelligence gathering.

    The AUMF argument was always a fall back position because there is no need to even get there unless the Court has a brain fart and invents an unenumerated constitutional power which allows Congress to limit or eliminate the President's long recognized Article II power in this area.

    Indeed, it appears that the WH is using the AUMF to protect FISA from being reversed as an unconstitutional assertion of Congressional power. The Justice white paper spends a great deal of time using the AUMF to protect FISA.

    FISA is a very useful means of obtaining warrants for criminal prosecutions in national security cases. This WH uses FISA more than any previous administration and does not want to see the warrant process get dumped back into open court.

    ReplyDelete
  44. Glenn:

    Re: Bullet point 6

    While I think you're right that the preznit's legal beagles may have been late in coming up with the
    "AUMF" excuse for their wiretapping,
    I'm not convinced that the preznit's staff ever originally "justified" it on any coherent Article II basis (in part for the obvious reason that the Article II claims are so pathetic, given the Steel Mills case amongst other reasons, as to not be worthy of rational consideration). I think that the main reason these folks did the snooping is that they could. They don't seem to think too much about what they're doing, and they're completely amoral about the means; this is a continuing -- if not a dominant -- theme of this maladministration: "We're gonna do it because we want to (and you don't want us to). And go f*** yourself...." It shows up in the "I have a mandate" arrogance, the Alito steamrolling, the secrecy and "executive privilege" claims, the refusal to go under oath, the invasion of Iraq in the face of worldwide opposition, the tax cuts, the Social Security imbroglio, the politicization of the executive, the propaganda campaigns, and now even the ports controversy. Confrontation and "in your face" politics (and a complete lack of respect for the law or even public opinion) is a hallmark of this maladministration. They do things because they can.... I think looking for legal reasoning from them is like waiting for pigs to sing.

    Cheers,

    ReplyDelete
  45. Anonymous2:13 PM

    Following up on David Shaughnessy's wise admonition, this is from thersites:

    "No. 1, of course, is the Nebraska-Maine push on Senators Snowe and Hagel; Snowe, in particular, is wavering, her staffers are sounding defensive and evasive, she's under a lot of pressure and POLITE, SUPPORTIVE phone calls -- ones that make her staff think that our side is the good guys -- still may make a difference, especially if they're coming from Maine residents."

    If you called, now send an e-mail. Do both. Call the various offices of these people. Have your dog call also. Do anything. It's a race against time.

    BTW, Kim in Sen. Hagel's office was very nice. Ask for her.

    Don't call the toll free Senate number. It's less personal. Spend the dime. NOW.

    Toll-free Senate Switchboard #: 888-355-3588

    Hagel, Chuck (R - NE)
    Tel: (202) 224-4224
    Fax: (202) 224-5213
    chuck_hagel@hagel.senate.gov

    Snowe, Olympia J. (R - ME)
    Tel: (202) 224-5344
    Tel: (800) 432-1599 (toll free number in Maine)
    Fax: (202) 224-1946
    olympia@snowe.senate.gov

    ReplyDelete
  46. Hodnips said:

    ... ever since the iraq attack began there have been speculations as to the "real" reason the neocons and bush instigated it.

    You want to know, go read James Bamford's book A Pretext For War. Not a very pretty story.

    Cheers,

    ReplyDelete
  47. Anonymous2:26 PM

    why couldn't Gonazles have just answered the multiple questions that were asked when he was testifying about this three weeks ago?

    Because the administration's handling of this situation changes daily as events unfold. This is why it is so incredibly easy to catch them in contradictory statements. They know they are inconsistent, but they don't care, as long as they can dictate the current "message" immediately to the public.

    They rely on the general public not having much memory beyond 3 or 4 news cycles. They don't care about reality only the public perception of reality.

    The WaPo article today is a perfect example of this.

    The domestic eavesdropping is still going on, however they may have shifted when the collected data is actually examined.

    ReplyDelete
  48. John Yoo is going to go down in history.

    I hope he doesn't ruin the reputation of Berkeley Law for hiring him. What were they thinking?

    Boalt Hall School of Law, more specifically. John Yoo was faculty advisor to the student chapter of the Federalist Society when I was there (should come as a surprise to no one). And while he may be able to teach torts (or whatever) by rote, he's as intellectually dishonest as the day is long....

    Cheers,

    ReplyDelete
  49. Anonymous2:39 PM

    I will scroll past them and won't read, but it would be sort-of funny to read our resident trolls proclaiming how wildly popular the chimpster and gang is, how right they are, what great Americans they are, how we are now more loved around the world...

    Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah...

    All lies of course...

    It would be funny, but I won't feed the trolls. A great blog gets ruined with the regular, obnoxious trolls get more of a "platform" than the blog's owner and thoughtful commentators.

    REMEMBER: ONLY YOU CAN STOP TROLL SHIT!

    Do your part...

    ReplyDelete
  50. Anonymous2:40 PM

    John Yoo was faculty advisor to the student chapter of the Federalist Society when I was there (should come as a surprise to no one).

    Let me stand up, tho, for The Federalist Society. I was a member in law school, but that organization is not homogenous. Not hardly.

    I was firmly in the libertarian wing of the FS, and we always have had our differences with the social/authoritarian conservatives on a variety of jurisprudential matters. Certainly, the Yoo theories of Executive power cannot conceivably be considered to fit into any serious strands of libertarianism that I am aware of; the libertarians and FS members at Cato are mostly opposed to Yoo's notions, and many (not all, Roger Pilon being a timid excpetion) have been strong in their objections to the illegal NSA spying program.

    ReplyDelete
  51. Anonymous2:45 PM

    Events have now converged to reveal that there is no "War on Terror". Portgate has shown that Arab and American and even Israeli business interests continue to conduct business as usual under the guise of "free trade".

    The so-called "War on Terror" is a chimera. We are not at "war" with any nation. The search for Bin Ladin and others who support his aims are and should be law enforcement matters best handled through international cooperation via the UN, NATO, the Arab League and other international organizations better suited to multilateral law enforcement actions.

    All other issues then condense: Bush's war of choice against the people of Iraq is a war crime; the NSA program that spies on American citizens is in violation of federal law and is a crime; and the unlawful torture and detention of the so-called "enemy combatants" is likewise criminal and should be prosecuted as such via an international war crimes tribunal.

    ReplyDelete
  52. Anonymous2:48 PM

    I just wrote every non-fascist I know, explained the issues, told them it's a race against time, and said that if they care about the Rule Of Law and the Constitution, they should write emails and make phone calls TODAY expressing that view and calling for support of the Rockefeller motion. If the President has nothing to hide, he has nothing to fear from such an investigation.

    I urge everyone to drop everything and send your friends an email explaining the issue and giving them these numbers. Be sure to tell them that after they do, they should write everyone THEY know and ask the same of them.

    Toll-free Senate Switchboard #: 888-355-3588

    Hagel, Chuck (R - NE)
    Tel: (202) 224-4224
    Fax: (202) 224-5213
    chuck_hagel@hagel.senate.gov

    Snowe, Olympia J. (R - ME)
    Tel: (202) 224-5344
    Tel: (800) 432-1599 (toll free number in Maine)
    Fax: (202) 224-1946
    olympia@snowe.senate.gov

    ReplyDelete
  53. Anonymous2:49 PM

    Sign Senator Byrd's wiretap petiton:

    http://www.byrd2006.com/wiretap/

    ReplyDelete
  54. Anonymous2:50 PM

    What I want to know is did they extend their definition of "terrorist" to "enemies of the state" which would include "those trying to overthrow the government" which would in "Democrats in the 2004 election". Did they spy on the John Kerry campaign? Have they spied on Howard Dean?

    ReplyDelete
  55. Anonymous2:50 PM

    I don't hear them uttering a word about how we can make things right with the families who have been devastated

    Too busy looking for domestic, brain-dead white women to rally the "culture of life" crowd against.

    After all, they know they have to admit is Iraq was a mistake now -- situation is totally out of control.

    They will admit to a "boo boo" but not that we lost the war of conquest they rallied us into based on lies.

    Halliburton and gaing will make small fortunes rebulding infrastruction, but they will steal steal steal steal all the can while doing it.

    There is no money to be made helping people rebuild their lives.

    I pray people with eventually see that this was really all about looting the federal treasury and creating HUGE profits for the military industrial complex. The oil industrial, after all, is an important component of the "war machine"

    ReplyDelete
  56. Anonymous2:53 PM

    I apologize for feeding the pathetic trolls here yesterday.

    DON'T BOTHER!!!!!!

    JUST DON'T DO IT!!!!!!!!!!

    Its getting out of hand when the regular morons that couldn't give a damn about logic, facts, and the opinions of the majority of Americans actually have more posts than glenn and those that come here for ideas.

    That's the whole point of trolling, isn't it...

    You look like a moron when you argue about things a child can see -- besides, you make the rest of the anons look stupid too.

    GET A GRIP!!! DON'T FEED THE TROLLS

    You are ruining an otherwise great blog - and for what, so you can get up on a little soapbox?

    ReplyDelete
  57. David Shaughnessy said...

    If you care about the Bush Administration's lawbreaking, please ignore Bart and Gedaliya (Bartaliya) today and keep your eye on the ball. Contact the senators; that's what matters. Bartaliya and the other White House shills are here to occupy your time and distract you from taking meaningful action. Don't be deceived!


    I agree with David.

    Contact your senators and representatives and tell them to do whatever Glenn says.

    Don't waste time with me.

    Call and email both senators, your representative and the DNC to get them going.

    ReplyDelete
  58. Anonymous3:01 PM

    Just to corret a minor point. Byrd's reelection fight will be anything but tough. His approval rating is 63%, and polls put him at around 60/30 against his challenger.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Virginia_U.S._Senate_election%2C_2006

    http://www.rasmussenreports.com/2006/State%20Polls/February%202006/West%20Virginia%20Senate%20February.htm

    Sorry if it's already been mentioned. 64 comments is a lot of extra reading. :)

    Otherwise, your posts (or should I call them essays?) are fantastic and spot-on as always. I enjoy reading them.

    ReplyDelete
  59. Anonymous3:04 PM

    Hee Haw!

    Campaign Crawlers
    Republicans Turn on Santorum
    By David Holman
    Published 3/3/2006 12:08:26 AM
    Does party loyalty run both ways among Republican senators? That remains to be seen after Republican Majority for Choice (RMC), a pro-abortion caucus within the GOP, began a spirited attack on Sen. Rick Santorum this week.

    RMC launched full- and quarter-page ads in nearly every major daily newspaper in Pennsylvania -- mock "Help Wanted" announcements calling for "Real Republican Candidates for Senate." The ad advocates "the Big Tent philosophy Ronald Reagan helped to build," and warns in bold, "Candidates who claim to be Republicans but instead use the Party to further their own personal or religious agenda need not apply." While the ad never names Santorum explicitly, its pro-abortion and anti-religious opposition to him is unmistakable.

    With eight days between the launch of the ad campaign and the March 7 petition filing deadline for the Pennsylvania primaries, the search for "real" Republican primary opponents to Santorum appears half-hearted. Two thousand signatures would be required for a challenger to make it on to the ballot. Rather than a search, RMC's ad campaign could signal open hostility among Republican senators. This move comes in the midst of speculation that Kate Michelman, former president of NARAL Pro-Choice America, will run as an independent in the Senate race.

    Jennifer Blei Stockman, national co-chair of the RMC, confirmed that while the group is targeting Santorum, its strategy looks past the March 7 filing deadline. She told TAS Thursday that her group had "exhausted" all possibilities for candidates in the past several months. While RMC hopes another candidate "surfaces," Stockman said, "The ad is meant to be somewhat tongue-in-cheek, that we cannot continue electing candidates like Rick Santorum because he's not helping the party's image.".......

    ReplyDelete
  60. Anonymous3:05 PM

    Glenn, a small nit to pick with your statement about the odious Rep. Harman and her comforting phone chat with AG Gonzales:

    If I'm not mistaken, during the Feb 6 hearing, Abu didn't refuse to answer the multiple questions about "are there any other programs we should know about?" on the grounds you stated in this post -- that secrecy was required.

    Didn't he state (to paraphrase) that "I didn't come her to discuss other programs, only the Terrorist Surveillance Program authorized by the President that is the subject of this hearing?" He used the "out of scope" dodge, not the "secrecy" dodge. Hell, it was a long hearing, maybe he used both!

    As usual, fantastic posts. I always feel better after reading them. I write my Maryland Senators and also my (D) Rep, even though I know for sure they won't be voting with the evil Pat Roberts on this.

    ReplyDelete
  61. Anonymous3:16 PM

    You are ruining an otherwise great blog - and for what, so you can get up on a little soapbox?

    I apologized, dickhead. What else do you want? Should I chop off my fingers and do 50 Hail Marys? Is that sufficient punishment for my transgression?

    ReplyDelete
  62. Anonymous3:36 PM

    Anyone wondering what other programs the administration might be running can wonder which one allows this to happen.

    Pay too much and you could raise the alarm

    By BOB KERR
    The Providence Journal
    28-FEB-06

    PROVIDENCE, R.I. -- Walter Soehnge is a retired Texas schoolteacher who traveled north with his wife, Deana, saw summer change to fall in Rhode Island and decided this was a place to stay for a while.

    So the Soehnges live in Scituate now and Walter sometimes has breakfast at the Gentleman Farmer in Scituate Village, where he has passed the test and become a regular despite an accent that is definitely not local.

    And it was there, at his usual table last week, that he told me that he was "madder than a panther with kerosene on his tail."

    He says things like that. Texas does leave its mark on a man.

    What got him so upset might seem trivial to some people who have learned to accept small infringements on their freedom as just part of the way things are in this age of terror-fed paranoia. It's that "everything changed after 9/11" thing.

    But not Walter.

    "We're a product of the '60s," he said. "We believe government should be way away from us in that regard."

    He was referring to the recent decision by him and his wife to be responsible, to do the kind of thing that just about anyone would say makes good, solid financial sense.

    They paid down some debt. The balance on their JCPenney Platinum MasterCard had gotten to an unhealthy level. So they sent in a large payment, a check for $6,522.

    And an alarm went off. A red flag went up. The Soehnges' behavior was found questionable.

    And all they did was pay down their debt. They didn't call a suspected terrorist on their cell phone. They didn't try to sneak a machine gun through customs.

    They just paid a hefty chunk of their credit card balance. And they learned how frighteningly wide the net of suspicion has been cast.

    After sending in the check, they checked online to see if their account had been duly credited. They learned that the check had arrived, but the amount available for credit on their account hadn't changed.

    So Deana Soehnge called the credit-card company. Then Walter called.

    "When you mess with my money, I want to know why," he said.

    They both learned the same astounding piece of information about the little things that can set the threat sensors to beeping and blinking.

    They were told, as they moved up the managerial ladder at the call center, that the amount they had sent in was much larger than their normal monthly payment. And if the increase hits a certain percentage higher than that normal payment, Homeland Security has to be notified. And the money doesn't move until the threat alert is lifted.

    Walter called television stations, the American Civil Liberties Union and me. And he went on the Internet to see what he could learn. He learned about changes in something called the Bank Privacy Act.

    "The more I'm on, the scarier it gets," he said. "It's scary how easily someone in Homeland Security can get permission to spy."

    Eventually, his and his wife's money was freed up. The Soehnges were apparently found not to be promoting global terrorism under the guise of paying a credit-card bill. They never did learn how a large credit card payment can pose a security threat.

    But the experience has been a reminder that a small piece of privacy has been surrendered. Walter Soehnge, who says he holds solid, middle-of-the-road American beliefs, worries about rights being lost.

    "If it can happen to me, it can happen to others," he said.


    It will be stories like this that will finally turn the public away from their willingness to compromise liberty for security.

    ReplyDelete
  63. Anonymous3:46 PM

    [Brambling]

    May I request that people forced by the way this comment section works to post as "Anonymous" just include a handle as I have done above, so that we can tell one Anonymous from another? Gets confusing.

    ReplyDelete
  64. Anonymous3:53 PM

    Or, more elegantly now that I think of it, you could sign at the end of your post, like this:

    Brambling

    or like this:

    Sincerely,
    Hotcake

    or:

    Namaste,
    Gandhi

    or:

    Hey, hey LBJ
    How many kids did you kill today?
    Aging Hippie

    ReplyDelete
  65. Anonymous4:07 PM

    Glenn - you were awesome on the radio. Wish you were on longer!!

    Brambling - nobody needs to post as anonymous. As someone upthread wrote:

    When leaving a comment, you have to click on "OTHER" under the comment back and then enter your name in the field provided. If you do it the way you are doing it, it will be listed as "Anonymous" - you have to put the name you want in the OTHER line below the comment box.

    ReplyDelete
  66. David Shaughnessy said...

    There have been many defenses raised by the NSA proponents. The closet one comes to a "statutory defense" is that the AUMF satisfies the "authorized by other law" FISA exclusion. This, and all the other specious arguments, have been disposed of in the excellent NSA index at the front of Glenn's blog. But remember: these discussions and all of our opinions may be rendered entirely meaningless if the Senate passes the Nixon Law.

    Well, if they passed a law making murder legal tomorrow, you still wouldn't be off the hook for past killings. So, while such a law might make such actions legal going forward, and they might make the past transgressions "excusable" politically, they wouldn't make them any less a crime. And the violations of the FISA act are not just regulatory proscriptions, they are specifically crimes, from a purely legal standpoint.

    Cheers,

    ReplyDelete
  67. Hypatia wrote:

    I was firmly in the libertarian wing of the FS, and we always have had our differences with the social/authoritarian conservatives on a variety of jurisprudential matters. Certainly, the Yoo theories of Executive power cannot conceivably be considered to fit into any serious strands of libertarianism that I am aware of; the libertarians and FS members at Cato are mostly opposed to Yoo's notions, and many (not all, Roger Pilon being a timid excpetion) have been strong in their objections to the illegal NSA spying program.

    I knew some libertarian-type people that were attracted for some reason to the Federalists (I was also a student member -- and even treasurer for the student chapter, mainly to keep tabs on 'em and try to talk them into sponsoring actual debates instead of just bringing in their standard portfolio of RW speakers ... which, to their credit, they did for such as Linda Chavez [put up against Rachel Moran on English-only]). Even got the HJLPP free for a while (till they figured out I wasn't going to send 'em any money).

    True, the libertarians might find some things in common with the nominal "Federalist" goals, but if you look at the makeup of the national organinsation, it's a really a front for the RW of the Republicab party and hardly a libertarian bunch at all.

    On anogther note, one thing I get a kick out of is that the "Federalist Society" has James Madison's profile on their masthead, but he's probably the least of the Founders inclined to agree with their views. I think they more closely espouse the views of the anti-Federalists of the early nation, but it's the same old RW "rebranding" of their conservatism as being the "true liberalism", when the truth is poles apart.

    That all being said, while the gummint is now chock full of Federalist Society members, theirs is no coherent philosophy other than a adamantly socially conservative one (opposed to libertarianism), but all in favour of big gummint and big bizness ... and as Glenn has observed, the "Cult of Bush/Reagan" ... and power. The "power" thing is the raison d'etre of the Federalist Society: It's a farm system for the Republican party and the RW in America.

    Cheers,

    ReplyDelete
  68. Anonymous4:44 PM

    Jane Harman is my congressperson. She grates. She *grates*!

    The woman represents Venice, CA, for heck's sakes, and she's never seen an eavesdropping program or a military appropriation she didn't love. And, OF COURSE, she voted for the Patriot Act, and even (iirc) supports the anti-flag-burning ammendment.

    I repeat, the woman does not represent Logan, Utah, but rather *Venice*, CA! Her last Republican challenger (Paul Whitehead) ran to the *left* of her!

    Grrr, it all makes me so mad.

    Patrick Meighan
    Venice, CA

    ReplyDelete
  69. Anonymous5:01 PM

    Is that sufficient punishment for my transgression?

    Well, if it would keep you off your soapbox, disrupting the thread with simpleton stuff that no one, including the trolls, is going to read.

    MORON!

    ReplyDelete
  70. Anonymous5:03 PM

    that we can tell one Anonymous from another

    Thats what timestamps are for...

    perhaps some of us would prefer to exchange ideas instead of making this all about personalities....

    just one way to look at it, disagree if yo want to... that's kewl

    Please just don't feed our regular trolls and refrain from continually posting the obvious and inane. Thanks!

    ReplyDelete
  71. Jane Harman is being challenged in the primary by Marcy Winograd, president of Progressive Democrats of Los Angeles.

    Jane Harman is vying - hard - to be the Joe Lieberman of the House, someone who has no purpose other than to be the Good Democrat who invariably endorses and spouts the Administration's talking points. That is particularly damaging given that she's the ranking member of the House Intelligence Committee.

    She's also very confused. I watched her in an interview with Brit Hume, where she began by saying what she always says -- that Bush's warrantless surveillance program is "necessary and legal" -- but by the end, after Hume prodded her into it, she was admitting that the program did violate the law.

    After that, she reverted to robotically reciting the mantra of it's "necessary and legal" in every interview.

    Does her primary opponent have a real chance?

    ReplyDelete
  72. David Shaughnessy and Michaelgalien:

    [Arne Langsetmo]: Well, if they passed a law making murder legal tomorrow, you still wouldn't be off the hook for past killings. So, while such a law might make such actions legal going forward, and they might make the past transgressions "excusable" politically, they wouldn't make them any less a crime. And the violations of the FISA act are not just regulatory proscriptions, they are specifically crimes, from a purely legal standpoint.

    In response to Michaelgalien's comment about the Netherlands, there is a fair bit of law as to under what circumstances a "change in law" is "retroactive", so as to allow for a habeas petition for a reconsideration, but this applies to judicial decisions that (re)interpret the laws: In short, if it's a significant change in the legal understanding of the laws as they existed at the time of your conviction, you might be entitled to a new trial under that new understanding (as a hypothetical, a change as to what constitutes "wilful" in the definition of a crime, from "wanting something to happen" to "understanding that such would be the natural result", might be such a significant change). The "idea" seems to be a tradeoff between upsetting and overloading the justice system for trivial changes, on the one hand, and manifest unfairness to those convicted on the other. There's also some notion as to whether the change is of such a nature that it "must always have been that way, had we just thought about it enough", rather than a new clarification or twist. But a legislative repeal of a criminal law is not the same thing, and unless it specifically provides that old convictions are to be reversed, it does not do so. At least, that's the way I understand it. And good luck in getting a law to say: "Yeah, Bush, you violated the law, but we're giving you a 'get out of jail free' card now..."

    On to David's point:

    The Nixon Law that is now in negotiations in the Senate ("If the president does it, that means it's not illegal"), will explicitly provide that the Bush Administration's NSA domestic spying program is not and never was included within or prohibited by FISA. That is how the Bush Administration plans to escape culpability. To analogize your example, the murder law you mention would be "clarified" so that a particular kind of killing is defined as outside the purview of the law. That is precisely what DeWine's Nixon Law will do to FISA; it will declare that the NSA eavesdropping is not, and never was, covered by FISA. This is perniciousness of the worst kind and should be stopped in its tracks.

    This is an attempt to change the "understanding" of the law, not to change the law itself. But that's a matter of the courts to decide; they don't have to take the legislature's word for it (although they probably would; at least any hard-core Republican judges). But maybe we can find enough honest judges to just say "No" to this attempt to rewrite rather plain history and law.

    Cheers,

    ReplyDelete
  73. Anonymous5:12 PM

    From ATRIOS today:

    The advantage of troll poop is that most of the time they're just cutting and pasting something they've seen on some right wing blog. Here we have Roger L. Simon chastizing Robert Byrd for not counting his involvement with the Klan as one of the regrets of his Senate career, even though that was, you know, not something which happened during his Senate career.

    Well said -- it isn't like the read the posts and respond to the comments. This is why they seem to tangent, bane, and repetive.

    Responding is INSANITY, cut they are back immediately with a "copy and paste" reply.

    DOES EVERYONE GET IT NOW?

    PLEASE DON'T FEED THE COPY AND PASTE CROWD!

    ReplyDelete
  74. Anonymous5:35 PM

    "Isn’t it going to become increasingly difficult for Bush followers to shift the blame for their disastrous war project onto "liberals" when so many conservatives are declaring the whole thing to be a smashing defeat? Obviously, that won’t stop them from trying – facts never do – but these defections and heresies will make doing so much more difficult."

    Heh. Here's one whose version of reality causes him to obseve that the Muslim faith only finds social expression thru violence which then leads him to conclude that "The Left and the lying left wing media helped bring this war about."

    I can't wait hear exactly how the left is to blame for getting is into this war. I do know they will be blaming us for it's failure too.

    ReplyDelete
  75. Anonymous5:40 PM

    Not directly "on-topic" but I think important enough to provide at URL

    Top ports deal myths and falsehoods

    Summary: Faced with widespread criticism in recent weeks, the Bush administration and some of its supporters have promoted numerous false and misleading claims intended to downplay the approval of a deal that would turn over control of terminal operations at six U.S. ports to Dubai Ports World (DPW) -- a company owned by the government of Dubai, a member state of the United Arab Emirates (UAE) -- and cast critics of the transaction as racist, politically opportunistic, or both. The media, in turn, have often repeated these claims without challenge or correction.

    http://mediamatters.org/items/200603030005

    ReplyDelete
  76. Anonymous5:45 PM

    I say it’s time for a contest. A few ideas:

    Emptiest talking point of the week.
    The troll so divorced from reality that we should eliminate visitation rights.
    Best insanity of the day.
    Misdirection King.
    Psychoanalyze this troll!

    ReplyDelete
  77. Anonymous5:51 PM

    Mindful of Derb's concerns for the waning political popularity of the GOP, given widespread discontent wrt Bush and the war in Iraq, check out this analysis of polling data:

    Democrats have a new audience amongst the many disillusioned Republican loyalist groups, which the Republicans will battle hard now to win back.

    ReplyDelete
  78. Anonymous5:59 PM

    You can listen live to AirAmerica here:

    http://www.thezone1300.com/main.html

    No registration required, just click the link.

    Rick

    ReplyDelete
  79. Anonymous6:23 PM

    hypatia

    Hello. Could you please point me in the direction that I might find your reasons for initially supporting the Iraq War?

    michael i.

    ReplyDelete
  80. David Shaughnessy said...

    bart: I agree with David.

    Contact your senators and representatives and tell them to do whatever Glenn says. Don't waste time with me. Call and email both senators, your representative and the DNC to get them going.

    Can you see how smug and arrogant the Bush Administration is?


    Mr. Bush isn't running for reelection in 2006.

    I want to add Senate and House seats so we don't have to worry about filibusters anymore...

    Carry on and contact your Dem reps and senators.

    If they are running in 2006, contact them twice!

    ReplyDelete
  81. Anonymous6:38 PM

    michael i asks:
    Hello. Could you please point me in the direction that I might find your reasons for initially supporting the Iraq War?


    I could not begin to recall which post's thread it was in, but I cited an '85 article from The American Spectator, warning that threats from Muslim states and terrorists would only flourish if we did not start taking out nation-states that supported them or who otherwise engaged in belligerence against us. My whole position was driven by a belief that when they first started, say, taking American citizens hostages on airliners, we should have made it very clear what happens when you f*ck with the safety of American citizens, here or abroad. The '85 author declared so, but that obviously was not the policy Reagan, Bush 41 or Clinton followed.

    If you search my handle, with that magazine name, and the words "yellow ribbon" I think it should come up. I liked the Iraqi elections, but have neve remotely thought democracy alone is sufficient -- rule of law and a people receptive to and culturally prepared for it are also essential to a free and stable nation.

    ReplyDelete
  82. If they are running in 2006, contact them twice!

    Sorry Bart. The Senate 89-10 Patriot Act reauthorization vote tally portends a complete capitulation on the part of the Democrats to president Bush's NSA warrantless surveillance program. I am quite sure that most House and Senate candidates have absolutely no interest in glomming onto Glenn's quixotic attempt to turn a minor political tussle into a "scandal."

    Even if every reader of this blog were to call his representative 20 times, when it comes time to vote, whatever face-saving fig leaf of a bill the president agrees to sign will be leaped upon with unalloyed alacrity by both Democrats and Republicans who know that the public by an overwhelming margin supports the NSA program in its present form.

    So, unfortunately, it is very doubtful that the Republicans will have this issue to run on this fall. After all, even Democrats aren't stupid enough to call for the end of a program that everyone knows is vital to the national security of the United States.

    ReplyDelete
  83. Anonymous6:38 PM

    Here is a constructive suggestion about commenting.

    Blogger allows comments to be limited to "team members" of the blog.

    One volunteer from here, who Glenn trusts, can solicit contributions of commentary, via email, from people who wish to participate as commenters on the blog.

    If Glenn decides they are legitimate in the way they address issues and behave, he can allow them to be members of the blog, as long as he knows their real identity and they send him $100 in cash.

    If they step out of line in terms of behavior, then Glenn just boots them as a member and pockets the money.

    The rest of us who want to add our kitten scratch from the sidelines could easily have a commenting space outside of this blog to make all the noise we want.

    That way, people who come here looking for meaty, productive discourse will get it, and there woould be no need to have some honor system which has never worked in the history of the Internet.

    ReplyDelete
  84. Anonymous6:41 PM

    Isn’t it going to become increasingly difficult for Bush followers to shift the blame for their disastrous war project...

    No. Not at all. That's the cornerstone of Rovionics 101. It's one of the few things they do very well.

    So who will they blame?
    1] The Democrats - for their lack of support (you'd be surprised just how many Americans will buy that)

    2] The (TV) Media - for not focusing on the positive things that were happening thereby lowering the overall morale

    3] The (Print) Media for blowing the lid on TortureGate and other scandals, thereby giving aid to the enemy.

    4] BIll Clinton (someone will find a reason].

    etc....etc....

    I can tell you one thing - If and when we "cut & run" from Iraq there will be a unified, coordinated and sustained barrage of rightwing talking points that will lull the amercian people back to sleep. Eventually, even, the word "Iraq" will not be allowed on the FoxNews channel.

    ReplyDelete
  85. Anonymous7:02 PM

    I made the calls. Here's my e-mail:

    Senators Hagel and Snowe:

    I want to compliment your staff members with whom I spoke today. They were each very polite and professional. Please extend these wishes to your staff.

    Regarding the topic of this correspondence [Warrantless wiretapping investigation], please do not waiver in your support of a full and exhaustive investigation of Mr. Bush's activities. Although I am a Floridian (and a registered Democrat), like you, I am an American citizen and I believe, as I hope you do, that the Constitution is the bedrock of our government and that the rights enumerated therein are inalienable. Some say that if I'm not talking to a terrorist, I should have nothing to fear of these NSA programs. Well, the same is true of this administration: if they are not breaking the law, they should not fear a review of their program.

    It probably should go without saying, but please keep in mind that your oath of office is to uphold the Constitution, not the party. My rights and the rights of your constituents in Nebraska and Maine depend on you to vote your conscience. I believe that if you search your soul, you will agree that country is more important than party.

    Again, thank you for your efforts to this point and I pray that these efforts continue.

    ReplyDelete
  86. Anonymous7:14 PM

    "I apologized, dickhead. What else do you want?"

    Nice response.

    ReplyDelete
  87. Anonymous7:33 PM

    Glenn asked:

    "Does [Harman's] primary opponent have a real chance?"

    God, I hope so. As I mentioned above, I live in Harman's district (in Venice, CA) and I'm desperate for someone other than her to represent me. Problem is, in my opinion, Marcy Winograd is getting started on this a little late.

    I met Marcy at a kick-off houseparty a couple weeks ago, just a few blocks from my home. She said that she'd been wanting *someone* to challenge Harman for quite a while, but after she saw Harman defending the NSA program and criticizing the NYT on that Sunday morning talking-head show last month she finally decided she had to jump in (just a week or two before the signature gathering deadline, by the way).

    On the one hand, it's great that someone is finally motivated to make a serious challenge at Jane's center-right representation of my lefty district. Marcy can certainly count on me to walk precincts and phone bank my neighbors to help her win this party primary challenge (and I'm not even a Democrat, yo!). That said, I wish that she'd been building her organization and laying her groundwork over many months prior to this point, as opposed to hastily throwing her organization together on the fly. There's a lot of catching up to do if we're to take down the wealthiest Democrat in congress.

    Marcy does seem to have a lot of connections among the lefty-Dems in L.A. Whether those connections actually translate into vast volunteer manpower remains to be seen, and will (in my opinion) be the main factor that determines just how serious this challenge proves to be.

    So there's my long and uninformed answer to your short question.

    Patrick Meighan
    Venice, CA

    ReplyDelete
  88. Anonymous7:45 PM

    Loves me some "Collapse Comments." Thank you to all for your self-restraint.

    ReplyDelete
  89. Apologies if some other commenter has already said this - I didn't read all 106 - but you should note, Glenn, if you're interested in fairly describing Derbyshire's position, that it is not new - he has been in favor of leaving Iraq for quite some time now...

    ReplyDelete
  90. Anonymous8:08 PM

    Oh, m'gosh. I didn't get back in time to hear Glenn on the radio, something I so wanted to do. Will there be a transcript, or another live feed on this site? Could Glenn arrange for that to be played again for those of us who missed it?

    Two points: As I've been apolitical until very recently, as stated before, I didn't know this morning if I was for or against this India agreement to share our nuclear technology with them.

    But I've decided I am definitely against it. For one thing, it's irrational. Preparing to nuke one country for having nuclear capabilities while giving our own technology to another country which has not signed the NNPT seems preposterous. Secondly, there should be some quid pro quo if it were to go through (other than mangoes) that works to the benefit of the American workers, not the corporatists who pocket all the money from economic globalism.

    I would change my mind about this if someone demonstrated why I was wrong, but I have the same visceral reaction against this as I did against the Port deal, and the selling off of America in general.

    It's like you own a company and you mistakenly hire a corrupt CEO to run the show, and he sells off the assets of the company to friends of his for ridiculously low prices, pocketing the kickbacks. It doesn't see to make sense.

    David Shaughnessy? Do you have definitive views on this?

    Finally, here's a current news item, other than the one that Kathleen Harris has accused by some of participating in a bribery scheme.

    "I will meet with President Musharraf to discuss Pakistan's vital cooperation in the war on terror and our efforts to foster economic and political development so that we can reduce the appeal of radical Islam," Bush said. "I believe that a prosperous, democratic Pakistan will be a steadfast partner for America, a peaceful neighbor for India and a force for freedom and moderation in the Arab world."

    Later, White House press secretary Scott McClellan told reporters that Bush meant to say Pakistan would be a force for freedom and moderation in the Muslim world.Pakistan is not an Arab country.


    The fact that Bush is so uninformed and unintelligent would be funny if he were not so dangerous and destructive.

    Oh Good! Lou Dobbs is coming on right now to protest the India deal. I wrote him an email this morning saying he should get on that. Maybe he reads emails from fans?!?!?!

    ReplyDelete
  91. Anonymous8:10 PM

    Sorry, I keep writing eyes wide shut instead of open. I will have to psychoanalyze myself tonight, but that was me :)

    ReplyDelete
  92. Anonymous8:11 PM

    It’s great that Hypatia isn’t afraid to express her hatred of all Muslims and her desire to kill millions of them. That’s what makes her such a great American……..

    That is not what I said, nor is it what I believe. I have advocated targeting the military and political headquarters of nation-states that sponsor terrorism training camps, harbor terrorists, & the like. At no time have I endorsed targeting civilians, and I consider targeting civilians per se to be grossly immoral.

    "michael i" asked me for my reasons for having supported the war in Iraq. I outlined some and described a lengthier comment I authored some months ago on the subject.

    With this comment, I will discuss it no further now. My views on foreign policy wrt terrorism are not what this thread is about and I won't be a party to a derailment. So my silence vis-a-vis any further invidious distortion of my views should not be taken as aquiescence.

    ReplyDelete
  93. David Shaughnessy:

    Moreover, if the Nixon Law is enacted it will certainly be done as part of a comprehensive Congressional resolution of the NSA/FISA issues and will undoubtedly include an agreement that neither the Judiciary nor Intelligence Committees will conduct further invesitgations. And, without Congressional investigations, we are left with civil suits and criminal defendants, parties with dubious standing, to validate the core principles of this country: the rule of law; separation of powers; civil rights....

    You're right that it takes a plaintiff with injury to make the case, and that the ones at hand may be limited in their ability to see lawyers or even know that their rights have been violated (although there's a case bubbling up right now possibly concerning illegal taps thanks to some [perhaps convenient?] FBI lapses). Don't know how you can claim they have no standing, though.

    WRT the dispute between Congress and the executive as to who's got the power to decide when wiretaps are legal (as a facial challenge to executive action), yes, it's Congress that's the aggrieved party, but they're now Republican ... and it is those kinds of fights that are considered "political questions" and which the judicial system eschews. So whether or not Congress grows a pair (rather than kissing them), this dispute is unlikely to be answered definitively, outside of impeachment.

    ... That is indeed a slender reed upon which to support such weighty matters....

    But that's the way it is WRT executive/legislative squabbles usually. But with a Republican Congress nowadays, probably irrelevant here. I think you need real plaintiffs to force action (even if you think that it is only through Congress that the necessary facts can be ascertained).

    ... This should be done by the Congress, not left to the vagaries of the justice system, especially since, in the end, it is quite likely that the judiciary will determine that the issues present a non-justiciable political question between the power of the executive and legislative branches....

    Not so sure. As I said earlier, the courts aren't required to take the current Congress's side (or take on the matter). If there's injury in fact, and the law as it was written, not as "explained" by a subsequent Congress prescribes a penalty, there's room for the judiciary to move. Most tax-payer suits against gummint policies fail on the standing issue, not on "political questions" (Flast being a "sport").

    And I'd like to throw a hurrah to Glenn here; he's done a good job eviscerating the claim that there is indeed any actual executive/legislative power struggle to be resolved here.

    .... We should not allow Congress to abdicate its responsibilities, which it seems all too eager to do.

    Agreed. Hammer from all sides. But you're going to need a few Republicans who care more for their country than their party even after their arms get twisted. Good luck.

    Cheers,

    ReplyDelete
  94. anonymous said:

    So who will they blame?
    1] The Democrats - for their lack of support (you'd be surprised just how many Americans will buy that)


    2] The (TV) Media - for not focusing on the positive things that were happening thereby lowering the overall morale

    Oh, that's old hat. Just look at what they've been saying about Vietnam for some 30 years.... "If only *blah* *blah* *blah*, we could have won Vietnam." You might ask them the same question that some people are asking right now about Iraq: "What would a 'victory' look like?"

    Cheers,

    ReplyDelete
  95. Anonymous8:38 PM

    Glenn: OT, but did you catch today's WaPo? Eavesdropping on lawyer-client communications

    ReplyDelete
  96. Anonymous8:45 PM

    I print the below article in its entirety, for obvious reasons. Please post this all over the Internet, on every blog, and send to all your friends. In essence, he is saying that unless we can do some sort of quick Roots Project and change things, we're doomed.

    Glenn, you must mention this prominent, respected Republican in your lead post tomorrow. It's that important. I wrote Lou Dobbs to ask him to have Paul Craig Roberts on his show to widen his visibility.

    A most welcome ally!

    PAUL CRAIG ROBERTS HAS JOINED GLENN, therities, Jane, AL, etc. in saying that unless Democrats win in November, it's taps.

    THERE IS NOTHING MORE IMPORTANT YOU CAN DO THAN DISSEMINATE THIS ARTICLE. Could someone post it on FDL? I'll do Huffington Post, Anonymous Liberal and everywhere else I can think of.

    PLEASE POST THIS ARTICLE.

    From Superpower to Tinhorn Dictatorship
    by Paul Craig Roberts

    America is headed for a soft dictatorship by the end of Bush’s second term. Whether any American has civil rights will be decided by the discretionary power of federal officials. The public in general will tolerate the soft dictatorship as its discretionary powers will mainly be felt by those few who challenge it.

    The congressional elections this coming November are the last chance for Americans to reaffirm the separation of powers that is the basis of their civil liberties. Unless the voters correct their mistake of putting both the executive and legislative branches in the hands of the same party and deliver the House or the Senate to the Democrats, there is nothing on the domestic scene to stand in the way of more power, and less accountability, being accumulated in the executive.

    The Democrats have been a totally ineffective opposition and might not inspire any voter response other than apathy. Rather than vote for a cowardly party that is afraid to defend the Constitution, voters might simply not vote at all.

    In this unfortunate event, the only check on the Bush regime is its own hubris.

    Bush’s ill-fated invasion of Iraq has set in motion forces beyond his control. On February 23 the Asia Times reported that America’s Pakistani puppet, Musharraf, is “losing his grip.” Some Pakistani provinces are already beyond Musharraf’s control, and the remainder are rioting against “Busharraf” as Musharraf is now known. The infantile American press misrepresents the riots as responses to the Danish cartoons of the Prophet Muhammed, but in fact the target of the riots is the American puppet.

    By invading Afghanistan and Iraq and by threatening Syria and Iran, Bush has taught Muslims everywhere that they owe their humiliation to the Western controlled secular governments that suppress their aspirations. They are realizing that their power resides in Islam and that this power is suppressed by secular governments. Busharraf is probably dead meat, and when he goes so does the US military adventure in Afghanistan.

    When Bush attacks Iran, the US army will be caught between the Iraqi Shia and the Iranian Shia and will be decimated in fourth generation conflict, so aptly described by William S. Lind. If a few thousand Sunni insurgents can tie down 10 US divisions, imagine the fate of US forces trapped in a Shia crescent.

    The collapsing power of the US hegemon is everywhere evident. It is evident in the inability to successfully occupy Iraq or even Baghdad. It is evident in the growing military cooperation between North and South Korea, and it is evident it the revolt in the Indian government against Prime Minister Singh’s nuclear agreement with the US. Indians say this agreement subjects India to US hegemony and represents America’s attempt to block India’s pioneering research on thorium as a nuclear fuel. Opposition parties have told Singh that if he signs the agreement, they will bring down his government.

    The entire world now recognizes that America has lost its economic power and is dependent on the rest of the world to finance its budget and trade deficits. The US no longer holds the cards. American real incomes are falling, except for the rich. Jobs for university graduates are scarce, and advanced technology products must be imported from China. The US is a rapidly declining power and may soon end up as nothing but a tinhorn dictatorship.


    February 27, 2006

    Dr. Roberts [send him mail] is Chairman of the Institute for Political Economy and Research Fellow at the Independent Institute. He is a former associate editor of the Wall Street Journal, former contributing editor for National Review, and a former assistant secretary of the U.S. Treasury. He is the co-author of The Tyranny of Good Intentions.

    ReplyDelete
  97. Anonymous8:51 PM

    When Bush attacks Iran, the US army will be caught between the Iraqi Shia and the Iranian Shia and will be decimated in fourth generation conflict, so aptly described by William S. Lind. If a few thousand Sunni insurgents can tie down 10 US divisions, imagine the fate of US forces trapped in a Shia crescent.

    That's from PCR. We have to prevent this. I hope we're not going to attack Iran before November, but knowing Bush, we probably will.

    Lou Dobbs just said "Is it time to start praying for deadlock?"

    He's on board. And he's a Republican, like I am, or was.

    ReplyDelete
  98. Anonymous9:04 PM

    Paul Craig Roberts was one of Reaganomics greatest cheerleaders and possibly one of the originators of "deficits don't matter". If he is off the reservation, it is truly an incredible defection.

    ReplyDelete
  99. Anonymous9:19 PM

    Glenn, sorry for using up bandwidth, but I will make a big donation to your site in exchange.
    We're at Red Alert, and moments count, which is why I post these articles.

    To all the Democrats and pinkos on this site, you need to convert other Republicans like me to succeed. You can't keep thinking of us as your enemies. Some of us have the same basic values as you do on all the important points, except for economic theory and our desire for small government. See why we always believed in small government? Look what happened when you all wanted to feed the monster.

    Why do I keep writing about Paul Craig Roberts? Because it's one thing for the neocon lunatics like Buckley et al to now come out and say we have failed.

    But Paul Craig Roberts TURNED ON A DIME against this administration the minute we went into Iraq. He was outspoken about the Patriot Act from the beginning. Here's a man who was saying four years ago everything we are saying now.

    If someone was right then, shouldn't we respect that? He has vision, and his present vision is
    "GET DEMOCRATS IN. QUICK."

    That's good enough for me. And let's not mince words about what we are dealing with here. The word is fascism. Pure and simple.

    February 25, 2006
    Lest We Forget

    by Paul Craig Roberts
    Fifty years ago today, Nikita Khrushchev gave his Secret Speech to the Closed Session of the Twentieth Party Congress in which he denounced Joseph Stalin. At that time, Khrushchev, the general secretary of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union, held the most powerful political office in the world. The power that Stalin had accumulated in this position had made communism unsafe for communists. Heroes of the Bolshevik Revolution had been subjected to "barbaric tortures" and forced to incriminate themselves "with all kinds of grave and unlikely crimes." Khrushchev denounced Stalin before the Party Congress "in order that we may preclude any possibility of a repetition in any form whatever of what took place" under Stalin.

    Stalin had turned the unaccountable power that Lenin had embodied in the Communist Party against the Party itself. Karl Marx's reasoning leaves violence as the mediator between classes. Lenin took the reasoning one step further and made violence the mediator of disputes between the Party and the people. Stalin completed the logic and made violence the mediator between the Party and its members. Consequently, no one was safe. The situation was intolerable for all, and Nikita Khrushchev brought it to an end.

    He no doubt realized that he was reducing his power by reducing the fear associated with his position. But he probably did not know that in denouncing Stalin he was shattering the myth of Party Infallibility and setting in motion the ultimate demise of the Communist Party.

    Party members have explained the shattering effect of Khrushchev's speech on their belief system. The Eastern European satellites responded first, with the Hungarian Revolution in 1956 and the Czechoslovakian Revolution in 1968, both put down with Soviet tanks. But life behind the Iron Curtain nevertheless changed for the better. Camps were closed. Prisoners were released. Innocent victims were rehabilitated. Dissent became less dangerous. An underground press grew up.

    Stalin, said Khrushchev, "absolutely did not tolerate collegiality in leadership and in work," but "practiced brutal violence, not only toward everything which opposed him, but also toward that which seemed to his capricious and despotic character, contrary to his concepts. Stalin acted not through persuasion, explanation, and patient cooperation with people, but by imposing his concepts and demanding absolute submission to his opinion. Whoever opposed his concept or tried to prove his viewpoint, and the correctness of his position, was doomed to removal from the leading collective and to subsequent moral and physical annihilation."

    Khrushchev went on to say that "Stalin originated the concept 'enemy of the people.' This term automatically rendered it unnecessary that the ideological errors of a man or men engaged in a controversy be proven; this term made possible the usage of the most cruel repression, violating all norms of revolutionary legality, against anyone who in any way disagreed with Stalin" or were even imagined to disagree with Stalin. Even ordinary practical and scientific discussions became laden with deadly danger. "The only proof of guilt used," said Khrushchev, "was the confession of the accused himself." Confessions, Khrushchev said, "were acquired through physical pressures against the accused."

    By making communism safe for communists, Khrushchev created a toehold for truth. Truth grew in importance and influence. After three decades more, the reformer Mikhail Gorbachev rose to general secretary, reached an understanding with Ronald Reagan, and brought an end to the Cold War and to the Soviet Union itself. Neocons credit the U.S. military buildup, and I myself have credited Reagan's restoration of American capitalism. But the growth of truth in the Soviet Union is what did the job. When Khrushchev denounced Stalin, he released the truth.

    We need to remember this in our own days, faced as we are with a regime that brooks no dissent, seeks no expert advice, and deceitfully pursues agendas inimical to the U.S. Constitution and to the rights and safety of citizens. We have already fallen dangerously far when the U.S. Department of Justice produces justifications for torture of detainees held without charges or access to attorneys, when Congress and the judiciary acquiesce to the executive disregarding statutory law, and when wars of aggression are started on the basis of lies and false accusations. We now read of Halliburton awarded a $350 million contract to build detention camps in the United States. Bush says "you are with me or against me." Rumsfeld and Cheney already speak of "fifth columnists" and enemies of the regime.

    It is a great lie that America needs to give up its civil liberties, the separation of powers, the Geneva Conventions, and humane treatment of prisoners in order to defend itself against terrorism. If these are the Bush regime's terms for protection, Americans need quickly to find another government.

    ReplyDelete
  100. Anonymous10:25 PM

    hypatia

    Thank you. Your keywords took me straight to

    Friday, Dec. 30, 2005

    Glenn's post, 'Fear as the Driving Political Belief' prompted your opinions beginning in comment #14 and on.

    I will not respond further to this topic either, but one day when the subject is again discussed I would like to ask you some questions.

    Due to the rising tide of effluvia in here, I'll have to send up some kind of signal flare to brake your wheel mouse. I'll be creative.

    Thanks again.

    ReplyDelete
  101. Anonymous10:55 PM

    Air America is going off the air in NYC by April. They just lost Arizona and Montana. Rumors are lawsuits against the wind bags of the left are imminent.

    Its good Glenn is getting on the O'Franken Factor while its still on the air. Maybe O'Franken can guest blog for Glenn after April.

    Says the "Dog"

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  102. Anonymous10:59 PM

    I suppose it's because I was a teacher in another life and have remained in education for the remainder but I have to say that what is going on in the comments section of this blog is a good thing. Let the information, enthusiam, the despair, and the skeptism flow. It's the discussion of issues that promotes thinking and eventually resolution as to positions. Nothing hurts that effort so long as we're talking. Glenn is providing the place to do so.

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  103. Anonymous11:21 PM

    Eyes wide open said:

    "Some of us have the same basic values as you do on all the important points, except for economic theory and our desire for small government. See why we always believed in small government? Look what happened when you all wanted to feed the monster."

    Excuse me but although there are many things I didn't like about Clinton he did balance the budget. And Republican conservatives were the ones who elected George Bush, arguably the biggest monster to ever be fed by anyone.

    On Paul Craig Roberts, I'm glad he has had an epiphany, however him changing his mind 20 years later hardly warrants hailing him as the new messiah.

    A lot of lives have been destroyed at the alter of corporate greed mislabeled as "free trade". Each one of them a real person with a real life that did no more than play by the rules and work hard. The epiphany for them came in the form of bankruptsy, lost homes and shattered lives, brought on by people like Paul Craig Roberts who were supposed to be representing the best interests of people here in America.

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  104. Anonymous11:25 PM

    thersites, good catch but don't be fooled. That lawsuit is a almost certainly a ruse. Bushco just wants it to be a terrorist group who brings the first lawsuit saying they were victims of illegal eavesdropping.

    You can imagine how much sympathy that is going to get from the public. It will enable the lawless surveillance, not discredit it.

    We're up against a very tricky enemy. They didn't get where they are by being stupid.

    ACCEPT NOTHING AT FACE VALUE ANY MORE.

    Assume they will use every trick, every ploy, every gimmick to stay in power and avoid accountability.

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  105. Anonymous11:29 PM

    Great email, rick. Great! It looks sort of like the ones I sent, but yours is written ten times better.

    Let's get our friends who care about these issues but haven't yet become involved to call also. Tell them they can call over the weekend.

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  106. Anonymous11:44 PM

    Hmmmm. No posting by Mr. Greenwald today. Could be working on the new something he alluded to recently or....he could be constructing the rhetoric needed to jump on the UAE bandwagon.
    Think of a Republican Senator faced with an opportunity to pencil in some pork for his most influential fundraiser. Yes, the Senator ran on a pledge for smaller government, but, hey, this deal will make the fundraiser millions – some of which will surely end up back in the Senator’s campaign chest. Yes, pork for your biggest fundraiser is clearly bad in principle, but in no other way is it bad. In politics it is important to SEEM to be about principle. To talk about principle. Be able to spell principle. To be able to discern when one’s opponent departs from principle. Bottom line: Will the pork be penciled in?
    Will Mr. Greenwald find a way to get on the UAE bandwagon, despite a pretty clear past Democratic principle (or two) very clearly forbidding it? Is the analogy to the Senator appropriate? A cynic would probably say that both events are inevitable.

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  107. Anonymous11:59 PM

    Hmmmm. No posting by Mr. Greenwald today. Could be working on the new something he alluded to recently or....

    Northerbob . . . are you drunk? How can you say that there was no posting by Glenn today when the comment you left is in the comments section of the post he wrote today?

    If you thought he didn't post today, what did you think you just read? The posting of his ghost?

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  108. When are we going to see a post from Glenn Greenwald about the Patriot Act?

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  109. Anonymous12:13 AM

    Thersites2 of VichyDems has supplied me with the following. Glenn and thersites say our best shot is to support the Specter plan, because the Government will not accept it. Let Sen. Specter know we support his efforts to get the judiciary involved in oversight of FISA.

    Get friends who are of similar mind to call this weekend. Monday is not too late either. Ask your friends to each call the five people they know best who agree with us on this point, and have them write and call also.

    Thanks, all.

    Washington DC Office
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    Fax: 570-826-6266

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  110. Anonymous12:15 AM

    BTW, when attempt to get support in the effort to write and call, never refer people to a site. Provide them with the phone numbers. Never underestimate how lazy people are. They need to have us make it easy for them to participate.

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  111. Anonymous12:37 AM

    Jumping Ship?

    Since when do a majority of any philosophy agree on all details? Ever watch democrats try and agree on anything EXCEPT "We hate Bush?" If the right is dense bewteen the earlobes, why is the left usually outside looking in? Personally, I'd like to see an end to military adventures as instruments of foreign policy. But so have politcos since Pericles. No chance of it happening in this administration. Or the next one, no matter who wins. You do recall that it was the dems that got us into Vietnam and then dug us deeper in. The right winger, Nixon was the one to end the war and ink the peace treaty, oh and by the way, warm relations up with China. And it was that other right winger, Reagan who it seems, presided over the end of the Warsaw Pact threat. Hmm....

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  112. Anonymous12:48 AM

    Gris lobo:

    Free markets and free trade are two different things.

    I disagree with most of your post, amd think it is the corruption and coziness with government that has made many large corporations into the monsters they are, not the capitalistic system. Capitalism is the system in which the means of production are in the hands of the people. To have government control the means of production is the alternative.

    I will never agree with your economic theories, nor you with mine. To me, Reagan and PCR are heroes.

    But you know what? It doesn't matter at this precise moment in time.

    Right now, we have to demand accountability from our elected officials, urge them to take the right steps to re-establish a system of checks and balances, shed a spotlight on all the crimes and illegal government activities, and make sure Democrats take over the House and Senate in November by wide margins, so they can be effective as an opposition party.

    And I will agree you that "George Bush ... is arguably the biggest monster to ever be fed by anyone" but I would eliminate the word "arguably."

    But he is the end product of a corrupt system which has finally run amok. It was Eisenhower who first warned of the military industrial complex. Who listened? This beast has been gestating for a long time.

    Anyhow, peace, and let's work together now.

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  113. Anonymous1:28 AM

    Eyes Wide Open: I posted this link earlier, but this station reruns Franken's show beginning at 1:00 am.

    You can listen live to AirAmerica here:

    http://www.thezone1300.com/main.html

    No registration required, just click the link.

    Rick

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  114. Anonymous2:02 AM

    Richie, Richie, Riche.

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  115. Anonymous2:42 AM

    A commenter remarked that "Capitalism is the system in which the means of production are in the hands of the people."

    What role does that leave for the capitalists, those who actually control the capital?
    Brian Boru

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  116. Anonymous5:06 AM

    Brian, by what definition do you not consider capitalists people?

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  117. Anonymous5:09 AM

    rick, thanks so much for posting that info. I read your post right in time to catch the replay.

    Glenn was terrific, as usual. It's so good that he's become such an expert on this issue, and can explain it in a manner which is so easy to understand, and can field questions so well.

    If Lou Dobbs "owns" the Port issue, I think Glenn Greenwald "owns" the NSA scandal issue.

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  118. Glenn: how about a separate thread for discussing issues regarding your blog itself (i.e. comment etiquette, trolls, etc.)? At worst, you let folks vent about the issue without distracting from the main thread. At best, you might get some more productive ideas on dealing with the fallout of having an increasingly popular blog.

    Great post as always, btw.

    We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming.

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  119. Anonymous5:19 AM

    Eyes Wide Open:

    I'm sort of amused and touched by your wide-eyed discoveries. Some discoveries, you still haven't made.

    It's been crystal-clear to many of us since November 2000 that we're dealing with an outlaw government.

    We can't vote them out of office in November 2006. They've rigged the elections in key states. I think their goal for 2006 is a filibuster-proof Senate.

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  120. Anonymous5:29 AM

    Regarding a statement in Glenn's post, I'm unsure whether I disagree or just misunderstand. In section (6b) discussing the motivation for the illicit domestic surveillance program, Glenn writes, "Is this not conclusive proof that what the Administration really wanted was not liberalized eavesdropping powers (which they could have had as part of the Patriot Act but did not pursue)? Clearly, what they wanted instead was the ability to eavesdrop without any judicial oversight."

    Is this another way of saying that the executive wished to to eavesdrop with less than probable cause? If so, the only nit to be picked would be whether Congress would have written that into the Patriot Act (quite possibly) and whether it would have survived constitutional challenge (I hope not).

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