Righties wag their fingers at us and claim we liberals promote a “culture of death.” The nature of this “culture of death” seems a bit hazy, and wading through overwrought rightie rhetoric on the topic doesn’t clarify it much. But the more I think about it, the more I think there’s a real culture of death alive and well on the Right. Right-wing support for “preventive” war and capital punishment are obvious examples. The rightie culture of death, however, is a complex one, and their enjoyment of death depends a great deal on context.
Yesterday the New York Times published an article by David Carr comparing Iraq War photography to photographs of past wars. More specifically, he noted that compared to Vietnam, Iraq War photography is nearly devoid of dead American bodies.
FOR war photography, Vietnam remains the bloody yardstick. During the Tet offensive, on Feb. 9, 1968, Time magazine ran a story that was accompanied by photos showing dozens of dead American soldiers stacked like cordwood. The images remind that the dead are both the most patient and affecting of all subjects.
The Iraq war is a very different war, especially as rendered at home. While pictures of Iraqi dead are ubiquitous on television and in print, there are very few images of dead American soldiers. (We are offered pictures of the grievously wounded, but those are depictions of hope and sacrifice in equal measure.) A comprehensive survey done last year by James Rainey of The Los Angeles Times found that in a six-month period in which 559 Americans and Western allies died, almost no pictures were published of the American dead in the mainstream print media.
Photographing the dead on a battlefield goes back to Matthew Brady, whose 1862 exhibition “The Dead of Antietam.” shown in his New York gallery, displayed to shocked viewers the mangled corpses of Civil War soldiers. A New York Times review of the exhibition said that Brady had brought “home to us the terrible reality and earnestness of war.” A quickie search at the National Archives turned up photographs of a dead American soldier in Europe, Word War II, and the dead of the Malmedy massacre, which has been in the news lately.
Even though the U.S. military vowed to keep tighter control on war coverage after Vietnam, Carr suggests the biggest reason there are few photographs of American war dead is self-censorship. Squeamish news organizations won’t publish such photos. They don’t seem to have a problem showing Iraqi dead, though.
But what interested me even more than Carr’s article was rightie reaction to it. They were outraged that anyone would even think about showing the bodies of dead soldiers. This guy describes war photographers ghoulishly looking for “potential Pulitzer-winning ‘money shots’” of dead Americans. And another guy wrote,
But why the need to put the bodies of others on display?
Is there something to be proud of in showing those pictures? And these are the same people who won’t show a decapitation because supposedly it’s too gruesome. That leaves one to you wonder if they don’t show those gruesome images because it doesn’t fit their anti-war agenda.
Ah, yes, beheading videos. Rightie bloggers just love beheading videos. They link to them fervently and demand loudly that all good Americans watch them. For example, in 2004 a blogger at Wizbang was incensed that leftie bloggers were not linking to the Nick Berg video. You know how it is — liberals hate America.
Last month, a particularly grisly video alleged to show the beheading of Iraqi journalist Atwar Bahjat turned up. The “money shot” blogger and many others described it in graphic detail. Another said,
Our own media feels the need to shield us from such brutality, even as they report daily on the US and Iraqi death count—or seemed almost to fetishize the torture photos from Abu Ghraib.
But presuming to protect us from the nature of our enemy, like many of the MSM’s other actions in framing the war on terror, is irresponsible—and either presumptuously paternalistic, or cynically calculating.
True, there is a fine line between “war porn” and the dissemination of information. But we nevertheless have the right to know who it is we are fighting.
Rightie bloggers wallowed in white-hot righteousness over the depravity of the murders, usually attributed to “terrorists,” although it was not at all clear from the video who the murderers were. But as my blogger buddy The Heretik noted, there wasn’t a peep from the rightie blogosphere when news stories reported Atwar Bahjat’s death in February. And he poked a stick at a rightie who discussed the difference between “war porn” and “the dissemination of information” — “dissemination of information”? or gratifying a “beheading of the month” fetish?
Unfortunately for the righties, it turned out the beheading video was a hoax. It showed not the horrific murder of a beautiful and virtuous pro-western Iraqi, but just the horrific murder of some guy from Nepal. The blogswarm dissipated quickly.
On the other hand, the death of Rachel Corrie is still viewed with great hilarity by many righties. She was dubbed “St. Pancake” and honored with a pizza-thon. “A pity that St. IHOP could only be run over once,” said one.
So far we’ve seen that showing victims of Islamic terrorism is good, although just about any atrocity committed by a Muslim will do. It’s “dissemination of information.” The more horrific the atrocity, the better. Beheadings should be shown on the evening news when children might be watching. But showing photographs of Iraqis being tortured at Abu Ghraib prison is not “dissemination of information,” but “fetishism.” And it’s bad, and reveals an un-American agenda.
But if Abu Ghraib photos are bad, photographing dead American soldiers must amount to obscenity. The righties, you know, demand protection even from an accounting of the number of dead. Recently this blogger documented the gut-wrenching experience of being forced to listen to an antiwar graduation speech (emphasis added):
He spent a good five minutes talking about how President Bush lied, there were no weapons of mass destruction, we need to bring our troops home, etc. (the typical rhetoric of the left). He even gave the number of U.S. casualties to date.
This poor oppressed child was forced to hear a number! The horror! I hope the boy gets his news from Sinclair Broadcasting.
The same people who supported the Iraq invasion from its misbegotten beginnings do not want to hear the numbers. They do not want to hear the names. They do not want to see the bodies. They will open their eyes only to funerals, where a flag-draped coffin will hide the fruit of their war-mongering from their sensitive eyes. They talk about supporting the troops, and honor and sacrifice, and I understand many look forward to the 2008 release of the film “No True Glory: The Battle for Fallujah,” starring Harrison Ford.
But they don’t want to hear the hard numbers. They don’t want to see actual bodies, even in photographs. Though they might blog about honoring fallen heroes, warmongers don't want to know who they were.
But dontcha know, showing dead U.S. soldiers destroys our resolve and saps our precious bodily fluids.
ReplyDeleteWhose side are you on, anyways, us or the terra-ists?
Cheers,
Speaking of the "see no evil, hear no evil" crew, remember the hullabaloo teh RW foamers raised when G.B. Trudeau ran his Memorial Day strip that just listed the names of the Iraq war dead. You know, let people know these aren't just numbers; that these fallen soldiers were people too -- they had names.....
ReplyDeleteCheers,
Seems like a classic case of projection to me.
ReplyDeleteConservatives celebrate death but accuse of liberals of being the party of death.
Conservatives proclaim a dedication to small government and express contempt for liberal do-gooders but paradoxically defend a power-grabbing presidency and complain that the culture is too crude.
Conservatives complain that Christianity is given short thrift in the "public square" and that liberals are out to destroy it, but by their words and actions, don't appear to even be aware of their religion's basic tenets, spirit and Biblical foundation.
Crazy world.
Rightwing pundits celebrated the death of Marla Ruzicka. It was poetic justice that a young woman who had the temerity to seek out innocent Iraqi victims of the American military with the blessing of the U.S. Senate and the American military would burn to death in a car.
ReplyDeleteSqueamish news organizations won’t publish such photos. They don’t seem to have a problem showing Iraqi dead, though.
ReplyDeleteThere’s a very simple reason for that – showing Iraqi dead doesn’t give the right-wing smear machine an opportunity to attack the media for being anti-military and un-American.
There is a coordinated effort to destroy the media in this country – the righties want a dysfunctional media, a fearful media, a compliant media that is afraid to serve in its traditional role as an additional check on government abuses.
Without a dysfunctional media, Bush wouldn’t have gotten away with his lies that led to the Iraq war in the first place, let alone the blatant lawlessness and abuse of power that we see everywhere.
This post is very timely because today the smear machine is spinning full throttle to attack the media for even daring to report the alleged abuses at Haditha.
Peter Dauo has an excellent post on this subject today riffing off Rich Lowry’s comment that “There is an obvious agenda here, aside from the instinctive glee much of the media seem to take in any failing of the U.S. military.”
Media Matters has Rush Limbaugh’s charges of the media’s “gang rape” of war supporters.
And, not to be outdone, Tony Blankley Blankley declared Haditha allegations a "blood libel ... against the military services and against the country," over-reported by "gleeful media"
These sort of smears have worked so effectively that we have reached the point where on the rare occasion the media does its job, it is news.
I keep thinking that at some point that such smears will be so shrill, so over the top, so obviously false, and so outright offensive that Americans will say enough.
But then, we have Ann Coulter ridiculing Matt Lauer for daring to get “testy” with her, just because she accused 9/11 widows of “enjoying” their husband’s deaths “so much.”
Really, there is no line that they don’t dare to cross anymore.
I’ll wait for Matt Lauer to humbly apologize to her. It’s what we expect.
"showing dead U.S. soldiers... saps our precious bodily fluids."
ReplyDeletePretty much.
I've always wondered how some Christians--who are supposed to see a spark of the divine in everyone--can be so selective in their outrage. If all people have souls, and all souls are worth something, it shouldn't matter if they're American or not. Nationalism should be incompatible with Christianity. But more and more, they're becoming indistinguishable in this country.
The RW always justifies teh Iraq WWar dead with the following::
ReplyDelete"Well we lost 400,000 troops in WWII and 58,000 in Vietnam...so 2500 isnt that bad"
Culture of life my ass
Good post, Barbara.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteBarbara:
ReplyDeleteWhile they may have various excuses, the motivations of folks concerning coverage of casualties from the war are quite simple.
If you support the war effort, you want front page coverage of the atrocities and war crimes committed by the terrorist enemy to remind people why we are fighting and want to downplay coverage of friendly casualties to avoid sapping support for the war.
If you oppose the war effort, you want to headline friendly US and Iraqi casualties to build an anti war movement and avoid coverage of or even excuse the atrocities and war crimes committed by the terrorist enemy which might remind people that we are fighting mass murdering war criminals like the kind who pulled off the 9/11 attack.
The press overwhelmingly fall under the second category, which is why the troops loathe the press.
The only reason why the press is not splashing photos and film of US dead and wounded on the headlines and news programs is (1) there are very few dead and wounded compared to Vietnam and most other wars, (2) the military refuses to let them film coffins and (3) most of the press is too cowardly to leave the Green Zone and go on patrol with the troops where they might get such footage.
Bart:
ReplyDeletemost of the press is too cowardly to leave the Green Zone and go on patrol with the troops where they might get such footage.
Editor & Publisher, May 29:
"The deaths of two CBS journalists on Monday means the Iraq conflict is now the deadliest war for reporters in the past century.
"Since 2003, 71 journalists have been killed in Iraq, more than the 63 killed in Vietnam, 17 killed in Korea -- and now the 69 killed in World War II, according to Freedom Forum.
"The Iraq numbers do not include the 26 members of media support staff who have also died, as counted by the Committee to Protect Journalists.
"'It is absolutely striking,' Ann Cooper, the executive director of the CPJ, said on Monday.
"'We talk to veteran war correspondents who have covered everything going back to Vietnam and through Bosnia. Even those who have seen a number of different wars say they have never seen something like this conflict,' Cooper told The New York Times.
"In addition to those killed, at least 42 journalists have been kidnapped, according to Reporters Without Borders."
So, do you want to repeat that slander about the cowardly press so I can make fun of you for it, or d'you want to let it go? Up to you.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteBarbara O'B. said...
ReplyDeleteBart: most of the press is too cowardly to leave the Green Zone and go on patrol with the troops where they might get such footage.
"The deaths of two CBS journalists on Monday means the Iraq conflict is now the deadliest war for reporters in the past century.
"Since 2003, 71 journalists have been killed in Iraq, more than the 63 killed in Vietnam, 17 killed in Korea -- and now the 69 killed in World War II, according to Freedom Forum.
1) The vast majority of journalists killed in Iraq are Iraqi stringers targeted by terrorists and were not embedded or on patrol with the Coalition troops.
2) The western journalists generally stay in the Green Zone and mail in stories given to them by their Iraqi employees.
3) The CBS crew was on its way to a road block when they had the misfortune of experiencing first hand what an IED will do. This is by far the exception. The press provides heavy coverage when one of their own western press corps gets hit.
So, do you want to repeat that slander about the cowardly press so I can make fun of you for it, or d'you want to let it go? Up to you.
No, I maintain my assertion concerning the western press hiding in the Green Zone.
Major Ralph Peters (ret) was embedded with an infantry unit patrolling the streets of Bagdad while the western press was hiding in the Green Zone and reporting false stories provided by Iraqi stringers about a non-existent civil war following the al Qaeda bombing of the Shia mosque a few months back.
He wrote a series of scathing articles excoriating the press for hiding and reporting falsehoods. This is the first of those articles:
http://www.nypost.com/postopinion/opedcolumnists/64677.htm
Bart:
ReplyDelete"most of the press is too cowardly to leave the Green Zone and go on patrol with the troops where they might get such footage."
And this is the utter last straw. If ever I had any respect for your opinions, that's gone now. I know several journalists, the majority of whom have worked in Iraq. Your portrayal of them is so craven, self-serving, and utterly wrong as to simply beggar the imagination.
And I know you must know better. Good riddance to you.
HWSNBN gives out this miasmatic emanation:
ReplyDeleteIf you support the war effort, you want front page coverage of the atrocities and war crimes committed by the terrorist enemy to remind people why we are fighting and want to downplay coverage of friendly casualties to avoid sapping support for the war.
Shorter troll HSWNBN:
"If you're running an unpopular war premised on lies, you may as well go for the whole ball of propaganda wax, and paint it as the Ultimate War Against Satan And His Minions. Why not?, nothing more to lose...."
Cheers,
I don't agree entirely that our media show Iraqi dead. During the invasion I noticed no photos of Iraqi dead in our media, evem though there many thousands killed (and it took our media a long time to even admit that). I did see such images in foreign media, however, such as papers in the UK - there were bodies of men, women, and children along the roadside, killed by our forces. We were getting an unreal sanitized version of war in the US. I think our media were so afraid of being called unpatriotic that they stopped doing their job of presenting the truth and took up the job of selling the war.
ReplyDeleteHWSNBN, singing the same ol' song ("Dixie", is it?):
ReplyDelete... which might remind people that we are fighting mass murdering war criminals like the kind who pulled off the 9/11 attack.
Do I really need to comment on this enduring idiocy (nee lies)? Don't think so; pretty much everyone on Unclaimed Territory is a whole lot smarter (and better informed) than HWSNBN. For that matter, so is some 60% of the American population and growing....
Cheers,
HWSNBN panders more lies:
ReplyDelete(3) most of the press is too cowardly to leave the Green Zone and go on patrol with the troops where they might get such footage....
My, what timing. So sez Doofus-In-Chief sycophant HWSNBN, pretty much the same week as the Iraq war has turned into the deadliest war ever for journalists....
Not that facts would ever penetrate HWSNBN's cranium. He just reads the RW blogs and Wurlitzer sites that bad-mouth journalists for their cowardice from the safety of their basements....
Cheers,
1) The vast majority of journalists killed in Iraq are Iraqi stringers targeted by terrorists and were not embedded or on patrol with the Coalition troops.
ReplyDeleteYou're saying Iraqi stringers are congenitally unable to photograph dead people? Weird.
Regarding your slander against journalists (based on a single source, I see; smart), you can find the journalists' perspective here.
See also what a former press attaché at the American embassy in Baghdad has to say.
If Major Ralph Peters can find someone to corroborate his, um, interesting claims, I might give them consideration. If not ... well, he sure snookered you, huh?
the logic of righties seems completely backwards to me. showing beheadings is exactly what the terrorists want, that's why they take the time to rant on about some crazy crap. but this also lends them credibility they do not deserve and gives them a platform instead of forcing them to find other outlets, namely political ones which we proclaim is the solution to end the war.
ReplyDeleteAnd not only are they not showing dead Americans, they're barely even showing American coffins. This is completely appalling. We have to acknowledge the dead to appreciate their sacrifice, otherwise we will too easily send off our troops into another ill-advised war.
And bart, you are one sick man. No one who opposes the war effort is rooting for casualties to be broadcast. We are rooting for news that means we can leave to stop the killing. Good news would be great, but unfortunately the bad news it much more prevalent.
And just as a coincidince, I was just watching the Newshour and they took the time to show the face and name of 9 more US troops killed. That damn liberal press has the gall to try and pretend they care about the troops. How dare they!!
Mahabarbara:
ReplyDeleteIf Major Ralph Peters can find someone to corroborate his, um, interesting claims, I might give them consideration. If not ... well, he sure snookered you, huh?
Peters is a long-time stringer for the execrable fishwrap N.Y. Post, run as a loss-leading Wurlitzer of Republican propaganda by Rupert Murdoch.
Cheers,
Why fight. They've figured us out. We are a death cult. Ooooh scary democrats.
ReplyDeleteSnowwy said...
ReplyDeleteBart: "most of the press is too cowardly to leave the Green Zone and go on patrol with the troops where they might get such footage."
And this is the utter last straw. If ever I had any respect for your opinions, that's gone now. I know several journalists, the majority of whom have worked in Iraq.
I see you sidestep my statement, though.
Name the journalists and when each of them were reporting while embedded with the troops.
Dean said...
ReplyDeleteI don't agree entirely that our media show Iraqi dead. During the invasion I noticed no photos of Iraqi dead in our media, evem though there many thousands killed (and it took our media a long time to even admit that).
Really? Who did that count?
I did see such images in foreign media, however, such as papers in the UK - there were bodies of men, women, and children along the roadside, killed by our forces.
BS. Feel free to link to these.
Barbara O'B. said...
ReplyDelete1) The vast majority of journalists killed in Iraq are Iraqi stringers targeted by terrorists and were not embedded or on patrol with the Coalition troops.
You're saying Iraqi stringers are congenitally unable to photograph dead people? Weird.
Barbara, where do you see that in my post? Please do not descend to the level of the cheap shot artists around here.
As I clearly posted, the Iraqi stringers do not get pics of our military casualties because they are not embedded with our troops.
Regarding your slander against journalists (based on a single source, I see; smart), you can find the journalists' perspective here.
Thank you for the great link. It proves my and Major Peters' points completely. Here are some key quotes:
Every day, journalists in Iraq face a gut-wrenching decision: Do they venture out in pursuit of stories despite great danger or remain under self-imposed house arrest, working the phones and depending on Iraqi stringers to act as surrogates? A constant feeling of vulnerability heightens their angst. They know once they leave heavily guarded hotels or walled compounds they could end up in the hands of masked gunmen, pleading for their lives in a grainy video posted on the Internet. Or be within striking distance of an improvised explosive device (IED), a major killer in Iraq...The pressure to lay low has spawned terms like "hotel journalism" and "rooftop reporting"
Since their colleagues were wounded in January, ABC News correspondents face more levels of bureaucracy before getting the green light for assignments. There was a time when a crew could make its own decision about embedding with the military. It simply touched base with the foreign desk back home and the bosses in Baghdad. All that has changed. "Now, to go on an embed, they would have to have my approval," says Paul Slavin, ABC's senior vice president for worldwide newsgathering. "I have never encountered anything like Iraq before, as far as reporting difficulty.
In January, CNN reported that around 70 foreign correspondents were covering the story on a regular basis, a far cry from the journalism presence at the start of the war. At that time, according to the Pentagon, nearly 700 were embedded with coalition forces; hundreds more operated on their own.
This is exactly what I posted. Out of fear of being killed, the press is largely sitting in the Green Zone reporting often wild stories from Iraqi stringers which the western reporters never confirm. There is almost no mention of reporters embedding with our troops currently.
See also what a former press attaché at the American embassy in Baghdad has to say.
The press attache, whose job is to keep the press happy, is talking about the difficulty of reporting stories unaccompanied by troops in the hostile areas of Iraq.
In contrast, I am talking about how reporters are afraid even to accompany the troops on patrol surrounded by overwhelming firepower because they might actually get shot at like the two ABC reporters discussed in the article above.
If Major Ralph Peters can find someone to corroborate his, um, interesting claims, I might give them consideration. If not ... well, he sure snookered you, huh?
Google this article and check out the responses from the some of the press. Of note is the fact than none of them were embedded with the troops or on their own when they reported the wild stories of a civil war after the mosque bombing. Quite simply, the press passed along blatant lies as reporting because they were afraid to leave the Green Zone as did Major Peters.
sean nyc/aa said...
ReplyDeleteAnd bart, you are one sick man. No one who opposes the war effort is rooting for casualties to be broadcast.
Horsecrap. Just like during Vietnam, casualties lead nearly every story about Iraq.
If we read a story about building schools, electrical service or elections, there will be a casualty report in the first two paragraphs. If the article is unrelated to the fighting, then inserting casualty figures has no news purpose and must serve another purpose.
If there is a story about combat, the story rarely describes the actual combat because the reporter is not there to observe it. Rather, the article identifies the location and lists the number of US casualties disclosed by the military briefing.
Additionally, most articles only report US casualties and never enemy casualties, falsely making it appear as if the enemy is inflicting and not taking casualties.
When enemy casualties are reported, they are reported as Iraqi civilian casualties, never as enemy combatants. This falsely creates the impression that tens of thousands of innocent bystanders are being slaughtered when the vast majority are enemy combatants fighting as civilians.
As for the credentials of Ralph Peters, he has published over a dozen nonfiction and fiction books and dozens of scholarly articles about military combat.
ReplyDeleteThese books include two analyses on Iraq and future counter terror strategies.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0811700844/ref=pd_sim_b_2/102-5040735-8138511?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance&n=283155
Leftist ghouls who would seek to exploit the deaths of American war heroes to further their ignoble ends deserve all the ensuing public opprobium (and much worse).
ReplyDeleteHere is the real story on Iraq, not the leftist distortions one reads in the mass media: The Real Iraq
ReplyDeleteBart,
ReplyDeleteBarbara, where do you see that in my post?
It logically from the argument. I site a news story about the lack of photographs of dead American soldiers killed in battle, and you say that's because "most of the press is too cowardly to leave the Green Zone and go on patrol with the troops where they might get such footage." Then I say well, what about all these journalists that got killed, and you say most of the journalists who got killed are Iraqi stringers.
So, why aren't the Iraqi stringers taking the photographs of dead American soldiers killed in battle?
My point being that the "stringer theory" doesn't explain the lack of photographs.
Keep up, son. Rattling off talking points by rote doesn't always work. Sometimes you should think logically about what you write.
Are liberals now friends of the media? Are the journalists not cowards?
ReplyDeleteThis is not about being partisan; it's about being fair. And no, I do not think the journalists are cowards.
Barbara O'B. said...
ReplyDeleteBart: Barbara, where do you see that in my post?
It logically from the argument. I site a news story about the lack of photographs of dead American soldiers killed in battle, and you say that's because "most of the press is too cowardly to leave the Green Zone and go on patrol with the troops where they might get such footage." Then I say well, what about all these journalists that got killed, and you say most of the journalists who got killed are Iraqi stringers.
....who I also posted were not embedded with our troops.
So, why aren't the Iraqi stringers taking the photographs of dead American soldiers killed in battle?
Because they are not on the scene. Unless you are either embedded with the troops when they get hit or are tipped off by the terrorists when and where they are going to explode an IED, they will not get the picture.
How many times do I need to repeat this?
How to discredit yourself in two easy steps:
ReplyDeleteHWSNBN:
Additionally, most articles only report US casualties and never enemy casualties, falsely making it appear as if the enemy is inflicting and not taking casualties.
When enemy casualties are reported, they are reported as Iraqi civilian casualties, never as enemy combatants. This falsely creates the impression that tens of thousands of innocent bystanders are being slaughtered when the vast majority are enemy combatants fighting as civilians.
What a maroon!!!
HWSNBN thinks we're too stoopid to remember what he's saying from one paragraph to the next.
Or he thinks he's the 21st Century C.L. Dodgson's Red Queen..
Cheers,
According to MoJo:
ReplyDeleteA new report from the Center for American Progress says that religion and morality are deeply important to the vast majority of American voters—but with different political implications than one might think. While more than two-thirds of voters report praying at least once a day and over half say they attend religious services weekly, only a minority of them think that their own religion’s teachings ought to shape public policy.
via No Quarter:
ReplyDelete666
HWSNBN:
ReplyDeleteAs for the credentials of Ralph Peters, he has published over a dozen nonfiction and fiction books and dozens of scholarly articles about military combat.
He's a RW flack for the maladministration, on retainer to Murdoch's Mighty Wurlitzer. Even they have the minimal decency and honesty to put him on the Op/Ed pages.
As for "scholarly", that's seemingly a subject you know nothing about, Bart. There's people around here published in actual scholarly venues here (including me). Don't tell me that Peters is a "scholar".
You know, I seem to remember Peters in the "Rah-rah" squad back in the pre- and early days of the Iraq war (I used to read the N.Y. Post when it was one of three free rags acvailable to me every day I was in town out there). Peters was full-o-sh*te about Iraq (not that he was alone in his mistakes, but I'd point out that a lowly "civvie" like me was astute enough to point out that we'd have more casualies after the end of the war than we'd have in the initial invasion) [see this; then there's this]. I got it down better than Peters. And I'mnot even a "military scholar" (just a lowly brain surgeon). It's a fact.
Cheers,
HWSNBN:
ReplyDeleteAs for the credentials of Ralph Peters, ... [his] books include two analyses on Iraq.
And he was full'o'sh*te. Just like Cheney, Adelman, Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld, etc. Doesn't take a brain surgeon to figger that out.
Cheers,
ReplyDeleteHe's a RW flack for the maladministration, on retainer to Murdoch's Mighty Wurlitzer. Even they have the minimal decency and honesty to put him on the Op/Ed pages.
Having no valid rebutal argument, a liberal resorts to vapid ad hominem.
Mahabarbara:
ReplyDelete[to the troll HWSNBN: Sometimes you should think logically about what you write.
Category error. Trolls like HWSNBN and "think logically". Like filberts and "writing poetry". HTH.
Cheers,
ReplyDeleteAnd I'mnot even a "military scholar" (just a lowly brain surgeon). It's a fact.
Physician, heal thyself.
Brave little anonymous:
ReplyDeleteHaving no valid rebutal argument, a liberal resorts to vapid ad hominem.
Ummm, nope. I called it right on Iraq. Cheerleader Peters was wrong. But I don't pretent to be an expert; I just read ... and more importantly, think.
That's "rebuttal", BTW (unless you're talking about your most recent psychotropic prescription).
Cheers,
HWSNBN:
ReplyDelete[Barabara O'B]: ... you say that's because "most of the press is too cowardly to leave the Green Zone and go on patrol with the troops where they might get such footage." Then I say well, what about all these journalists that got killed, and you say most of the journalists who got killed are Iraqi stringers.
[HWSNBN]: ....who I also posted were not embedded with our troops.
So the "stringers" are also safely ensconsed in the "Green Zone". And yet, more have been killed in just Iraq than were killed in all of WWII. Sounds like HWSNBN is making an argument that even the heavily fortified and guarded "Green Zone" is a hell-hole..... That's "progress" ... of a sort.
Cheers,
Here's a report on deaths of journalists in Iraq (as of March, 2006).
ReplyDeleteIt is true that a large number of those killed are Iraqi, but there's no indication that they're mostly or all "stringers" ... and to be clear, that hardly makes the situation any better even if true.
It is true that the report states that it's harder and harder for foreign journalists to get out and around for fear of being killed or kidnapped, but once again that's hardly encouraging as to how well things are going there (and the report notes that even many of the Iraqis killed seem to have been targeted because they are seen as colluding with the U.S. occupiers).
12% were killed by coalition forces.
"Embeds" would hardly seem to be the riskiest jobs; while some (such as the recent killings this last week) were of "embeds", most of the killings are shootings (76%, many if not most targeted), not bombs (14%), and thus are most probably not of those on "embed" duty. Reporters such as Jill Carroll who go out on their own may well be doing the riskiest assignments, so the troll HWSNBN's assertion ("(3) most of the press is too cowardly to leave the Green Zone and go on patrol with the troops" [and the further unsupported assertion that this is why there's no pics of dead U.S. soldiers]) is not backed up by any evidence ... not to mention the slur against the courage of the reporters. Oh, yeah, evidence.... My bad, what was I thinking? This is HWSNBN spouting off his orifice....
Cheers,
anon@11:12pm: Here is the real story on Iraq, not the leftist distortions one reads in the mass media: The Real Iraq.
ReplyDeleteAccording to Doug Thomas @ Capitol Hill Blues (via Just World News):
Military commanders in the field in Iraq admit in private reports to the Pentagon the war "is lost" and that the U.S. military is unable to stem the mounting violence killing 1,000 Iraqi civilians a month.
Even worse, they report the massacre of Iraqi civilians at Haditha is "just the tip of the iceberg" with overstressed, out-of-control Americans soldiers pushed beyond the breaking point both physically and mentally.
"We are in trouble in Iraq," says retired army general Barry McCaffrey. "Our forces can't sustain this pace, and I'm afraid the American people are walking away from this war."
Marine Gen. Peter Pace, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, has clamped a tight security lid on the increasingly pessimistic reports coming out of field commanders in Iraq, threatening swift action against any military personnel who leak details to the press or public.
Now, we just need to know what those large military bases are for. Gary Hart says the US will be in Iraq for 55 years.
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Excellent post. I have one pet peeve quibble. Just like the word Bushies sounds like a species that's mildly cute and inoffensive, the word righties strikes me as inadequate to describe the kind of repugnant views and behavior they represent. I'd suggest something more along the lines of simply the right-wing. (Bushists works for me, too.)
ReplyDeleteSpeaking of repugnance, bart's post of 7:13 is almost emblematic in that regard. (His ensuing posts only go downhill from there.)
OBTW, here's our esteemed military "scholar" in the summer of 2003 (months after I'd predicted -- correctly -- the quagmire), talking up the wonders of the Iraq invasion.
ReplyDelete"Scholar"? No.
"Water-boy for the maladministration"? Yep.
Cheers,
HWSNBN:
ReplyDeleteAs for the credentials of Ralph Peters, he has published over a dozen nonfiction and fiction books and dozens of scholarly articles about military combat.
OBTW, which are which?
As to the "scholarly" articles, does that count N.Y. Post op/eds? If there's anythind else, feel free to trot out the cites (you know, the "dozens" of them). And while I know the military may have a different standard for "scholarly" than I'm used to, perhaps some idea of what counts as "scholarly" to you here might be useful. LTTEs?
Cheers,
HWSNBN:
ReplyDeleteAs for the credentials of Ralph Peters, he has published over a dozen nonfiction and fiction books and dozens of scholarly articles about military combat.
OBTW, which are which?
As to the "scholarly" articles, does that count N.Y. Post op/eds? If there's anythind else, feel free to trot out the cites (you know, the "dozens" of them). And while I know the military may have a different standard for "scholarly" than I'm used to, perhaps some idea of what counts as "scholarly" to you here might be useful. LTTEs?
Cheers,
So the 2 "expert resources" that are presented to "prove" the points of Bart and brave "anonymous" are Ralph Peters and Amir Taheri.
ReplyDeleteSo we are supposed to be convinced by Op Ed pieces from the NY Post and an article from the guy who brought us the fraudulent "Iranians forcing Jews to wear yellow badges" story? Maybe these people should go back to concern trolling.
- Geekmouth
Bart... No, I maintain my assertion concerning the western press hiding in the Green Zone.
ReplyDeleteWhile Bart hides in the safer "red zone" of Colorado doing battle daily against "terrist sympathizers" from his Mountain Dew and Cheeto stocked, basement bunker. Occasionally venturing out to the dangerous local court to file a motion or two on behalf of some drunk driving Christian.
Rumsfeld's critics say the skirmishing is taking a toll on the Army, with casualties that include the loss of a prized weapons system last year, the resignation of Army Secretary Thomas White last spring, and, in recent weeks, the retirement of four top generals, with more expected in the coming months.
ReplyDelete"You look at Rumsfeld, and beyond all the rationale, spoken and unspoken, he just dislikes the Army. It's just palpable. . . . You always have to wonder if when Rumsfeld was a Navy lieutenant junior grade whether an Army officer stole his girlfriend," said Ralph Peters, a former Army intelligence officer who writes on national security issues.
Maybe it's that I watch so little TV news and almost never read the paper version of the papers, but my sense is there are not many images of dead Iraqis from this war, either. A lot of blown-up-cars aftermath street scenes, to be sure.
ReplyDeleteCan someone who reads a paper paper regularly, or watches the networks, tell me your impression?
Remember, there were no photographs of American war dead during World War II until 1944. This was a matter of censorship and policy. Dead bodies don't look any better when they become dead in a good cause than when they become dead for the reasons we are in Iraq.
ReplyDeleteThere were, however, pictures of flag draped coffins, and one rather dramatic before and after picture of a Marines unit in formation that had lost nearly 90% of its members.