Wednesday, July 19, 2006

Various items

(1) In response to my post the other day regarding the failure of the media to report on the extremist rhetoric and tactics that are now commonplace among the most prominent right-wing bloggers, Terry Welch urged readers to pose questions about this failure to Washington Post media critic Howard Kurtz during the online chat Kurtz hosts each week. Several readers did so, and I have a post up at C&L this morning regarding Kurtz's responses.

(2) For those interested, the Editors at Poor Man Institute have a post documenting the "quality" of responses to my posts this week from the right-wing blogosphere. The discussion which ensues in the Comment section regarding that matter is instructive. And as the Editors document, as does this post, this truly adolescent and enraged level of rhetoric is being promoted and encouraged by those who most frequently lament the allegedly lowly state of discourse among "the Left."

(3) As has been widely discussed, Alberto Gonzales admitted during testimony before the Senate Judiciary Committee that it was due to President Bush's personal denial of necessary security clearances that the Justice Department's Office of Professional Responsibility was unable to investigate the role played by DoJ lawyers in authorizing the President's warrantless eavesdropping program. Back in May, Jeralyn Merritt posted some of the revealing correspondence regarding these efforts.

Undoubtedly, Bush followers will argue -- as Tony Snow lamely did yesterday -- that the Commander-in-Chief was simply trying to limit knowledge of this critical, illegal program to as few people as possible, but this paragraph from the Associated Press, by itself, dispenses with that excuse:

Yet, according to OPR chief Marshall Jarrett, "a large team" of prosecutors and FBI agents were granted security clearances to pursue an investigation into leaks of information that resulted in the program's disclosure in December. Justice Department inspector general Glenn A. Fine and two of his aides were among other department officials who were granted clearances, Jarrett said in an April memo explaining the end of his probe. That memo was released by the Justice Department Tuesday.

When it comes to criminally prosecuting those who alerted Americans to the existence of this illegal eavesdropping, these alleged security concerns disappear, and all sorts of investigators are given full access to the details of the program to enable them to conduct an aggressive investigation. But when it comes to investigating whether the President and his legal advisors acted properly with regard to the same program, the President blocks any such investigation from occurring on the grounds that not even DoJ lawyers can be trusted to investigate.

As I have noted many times before, the critical point is not merely that the President broke the law, but that he knew he was acting illegally, as evidenced by the White House's repeated and ongoing attempts to block any judicial review of the President's behavior and, now, the President's personal efforts to block even DoJ investigations of the propriety of his conduct. The President not only blatantly breaks the law in eavesdropping on Americans without warrants, but then attempts to block all courts from reviewing the legality of his conduct and block all investigations (by Congress and now even by the executive branch) into what occurred by invoking frivolous and inconsistent claims about national security.

Is there any grounds for reasonable dispute about whether our system of Government was intended to allow the President to violate a Congressional statute in secret and then block all courts from ruling on the legality of his conduct, and block all investigations into what occurred? If those circumstances do not reflect a President who believes he is above the law, what would?

197 comments:

  1. Anonymous11:23 AM

    Duplicate post?

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  2. Anonymous11:23 AM

    I can no longer even put myself in the shoes of the right as they try to defend this. Even they have to realize that grunting about terrorist threats and the President "Protecting Us" begin to ring hollow at some point.

    Ladies and gentlemen, we are not driven by intense hatred of the President, we are driven by love of country and hatred of anyone who wishes to tear it down - no matter if their address is "Cave, Afghanistan" or "1600 Pennsylvania Ave."

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  3. Even Spectre has conspicuously dropped the words "good faith" from his discourse.

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  4. Hey Glenn:

    Looks like your post got duped. You may want to delete a couple before it gets out of hand.

    Cheers,

    ReplyDelete
  5. I agree with the above post. I counted four duplications of today's post, each saying there were zero comments.

    I e-mailed NPR's "On the Media" about this discriminatory coverage of the blogosphere and included a link to this blog. Let's see if they follow up and say even one word about it.

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  6. John Dean's book makes an interesting observation ... this brand of conservatives simply don't recognize their behavior for what it is.

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  7. Anonymous11:54 AM

    Regarding Bush's blocking of an executive branch investigation, it seems possible that the reason for blocking the investigation may be something more than the illegality of warrantless eavesdropping of U.S. citizens believed to have phone contact with terrorists. Although what that something "more" may be is subject to conjecture, could it be that Bush has been using the program to spy on political opponents?

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  8. Glenn (from the C&L page):

    Greg Sargent, writing in The American Prospect, documented back in May that this theme of the crass, profane liberal blogosphere is prevalent in the national media generally, an obsession which has intensified greatly in the past couple of months and now even includes mainstream news coverage of such petty matters as flame wars among Kos sub-diarists.

    You want I should clean up my language and talk more lawyerly all the time (at least on your blog), Glenn? After all, you have a standard to uphold. I'll bow to the wisdom of the solons on this. Let me know....

    Cheers,

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  9. Anonymous12:15 PM

    If the Democrats were like the Republicans, every one on TV would be screaming about the "coverup." So, where are they?

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  10. Anonymous12:16 PM

    from mainsailset: "John Dean's book makes an interesting observation ... this brand of conservatives simply don't recognize their behavior for what it is."

    Or, and this may be more frightening, the royalists precisely recognize their behavior for what it is.

    Glenn, thanks for all your hard work. I'm still slogging my way through How Would a Patriot Act?

    It takes me a while because I have to put it down every few pages and go for a run, or do pushups, or fire up the X-Box, or count to 10 very slowly, or something, to deal with the flabbergasted outrage I feel when I read about the administration's behavior and the behavior of the royalists.

    "A republic, if you can keep it."

    Why a king?

    Rob

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  11. could it be that Bush has been using the program to spy on political opponents?

    anon @11:54 AM

    To me, that as been obvious from the start. Astonishingly, at the very beginnging of this scandal breaking, corporate media played the clip of Bush stating categorically that his admin. sought warrants to eavesdrop. Why would he make these statements without being asked? Watch him. Bush very often reveals his illegalities and lies by preemptively denying them. Whenever he denies something without first being accused, or even speaks about a topic in derogatory terms, you can bet he is engaging in the very thing he is denying or deploring.

    Which is why the human/animal hybrid rant in his last SOTU worries me no end. :~[

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  12. Anonymous12:24 PM

    Calls to violence against specific persons is a form of terrorism. Anyone doing so should be prosecuted.

    Freedom of speech is not a right to yell "Fire!" in a crowded theater.

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  13. Anonymous12:34 PM

    The administration lies. They lie and there's nothing anyone can do about it, aparently. It's that simple.

    Take for example Tony Snow telling Helen Thomas three times that the US did not veto a cease fire in the middle east. It is clearly documented that this week Bolton did indeed veto a UN resolution for a cease fire.

    They say black is white and white is black. And they get away with it.

    When a lie as audaciously refutable as this week's about the UN veto gets put over the american people, why do you expect to get traction on a lie about something as nebulous as a reason for blocking security clearance?

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  14. Anonymous12:36 PM

    Glenn, journalists fail to see the obvious in this case for one reason and one reason only: They are bending over backwards in an attempt to be seen as "fair and balanced," because if they dare call a spade a spade - and run a front-page story on how bloodlust infects the right blogosphere - then the howling about the evil lib'rul media will be ratched up another notch, and they fear they'll "alienate" readers.

    But I'd be willing to bet my next paycheck (or yourse, as I'm sure you make more than me) that the first MSM reporter who DARES write about right blogistan's bloodlust gets an up close and personal taste of it in his e-mail inbox the very next day.

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  15. Glenn-

    Your work on this issue is invaluable for this reason: If you keep it up, as I'm sure you will, criticism of this type of hateful rhetoric will bubble up into the mainstream, and millions of citizens duped by the respect shown to these cretins by the likes of Kurtz will see them for the danger to Republic they most assuredly are. This focus could hopefully translate into more opposition to the lawlessness they are advocating on behalf of the Busheviks. That can only be a good thing.

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  16. Anonymous12:39 PM

    anonymous - i don't mean to be rude, but if you are just now considering the president is probably using his newfound "powers" on political opponents, you're due for a big CAPTAIN OBVIOUS award.

    "A lock isn't meant to keep out a determined thief. It's to keep honest people honest."

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  17. Anonymous1:01 PM

    Glenn:

    Using bad words v. treason accusations and public calls for hanging: The distinction that eludes journalists By: Glenn Greenwald on Wednesday, July 19th, 2006 at 5:52 AM - PDT...

    Many journalists seem to be under the impression that using bad words in a post or an e-mail is not just equal to — but worse than — daily calls to hundreds of thousands of readers in the right-wing blogsophere for journalists and mainstream political figures to be treated as traitors and arrested and/or hanged.


    The Donkey press is making no such comparison.

    The reason that Donkey press is whining about being flamed by the left is that their papers run blogs which cater to the left. Since they don't run blogs which cater to the right, they do not get the equal opportunity to be flamed from that direction.

    The reason that the Donkey press has next to nothing to say about the righty blogs is that they studiously ignore them as well as the stories they break and the flaming matches they engage in.

    You are kidding yourself if you think that the righty blogs are any worse flamers than their leftist counterparts. Glenn, you surely have been blogging long enough to know that flaming is a fact of life on the web. The blogosphere more than anything else resembles the anything goes yellow press of our early nation. Within reason, I think this free for all is healthy.

    The only reason that the lefties are not making the treason charge is that one of the guiding principles on the right is nationalism and the left can't make a charge of treason against the right which would pass the laugh test.

    Instead, the left usually calls the right "warmongers" or "murderers." The right does not reply in kind because the idea of the left even waging a war is laughable.

    Each to their own...

    What is boring is the juvenile sniping between the people that run these blogs about who did or did not say what to whom. You bemoan the fact of flaming on the internet and then engage in these silly spats with other bloggers which amount to flaming contests.

    If someone misrepresents what you said, then take them to task and correct the record. However, if you are simply flamed, then ignore it.

    Sticks and stones...

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  18. Anonymous1:08 PM

    Ladies and gentlemen, we are not driven by intense hatred of the President, we are driven by love of country and hatred of anyone who wishes to tear it down - no matter if their address is "Cave, Afghanistan" or "1600 Pennsylvania Ave."

    Great sentiment. I wish it would fit on a bumper sticker.

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  19. Anonymous1:18 PM

    Just curious: I've seen lots of examples of right-wing bloggers saying "Glenn Greenwald is a liar, Glenn Greenwald is a liar," but I have yet to see any of them even attempting to show that any specific assertions you've made are in fact lies. Granted I don't spend a lot of time reading right-wing blogs, for reasons that will be readily apparent to any rational person, but I am wondering how often any of your "critics" even try to back up the name-calling with anything of substance.

    (Well, I suppose a lot of them think that anything the Bush administration says is self-evidently true, so anyone who questions the administration could only be a liar.)

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  20. Anonymous1:20 PM

    Bart, you should start reading the Pig Press we have here in San Diego named the San Diego Union.

    They cover data from the Pig Perspective that virtually never finds any fault with Bush or any of his other conspirators.

    You may want to start reading this paper since it'll probably keep your blood pressure down and since it's pespective is thoroughly Pig, it will undoubtedly mesh with yours.

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  21. HWSNBN is clueless once again:

    The reason that Donkey press is whining about being flamed by the left is that their papers run blogs which cater to the left. Since they don't run blogs which cater to the right, they do not get the equal opportunity to be flamed from that direction.

    If HWSNBN's little 'theory' here is correct, the "papers ... which cater to the left" ought to be under malicious attack from the frothers on the right -- and I have no doubt they are, despite HWSNBN's implication to the contrary here. I suspect the reason that the papers spend more time trying to discredit the complaints from the left for their abrasive attitude is that these complaints have substance. Attack the messenger if you can't dispute the message, you know. The "douchebag" type rantings from the right are easily bit-bucketed, and don't call into any substantive question the integrity of the media.

    That's one factor; another one being that the MSM is actually quite friendly, overly so, to the maladministration and the RW, as is evidenced daily by such as Media Matters.

    Cheers,

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  22. Anonymous1:24 PM

    I believe it is on this blog that I read a while ago that classifying information to cover up illegal activity is itself illegal.

    Two questions:

    1. Does this apply in this case?

    2. Is there any way to enforce it?

    It seems to me this administration exposed one hole in the systems of checks and balances: it is very easy for the executive branch to evade judicial review or oversight of any kind, especially if the Congress is executive-friendly.

    Of course, you really do need an extremist administration to even attempt to pull off a stunt like this.

    One of the problems, I guess, is that the Constitution was written in a time when honor and integrity still meant something...

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  23. bart said:
    Glenn, you surely have been blogging long enough to know that flaming is a fact of life on the web.

    Glenn is not talking about flame wars, you jackass, as is evident to anyone who read the post. We know flaming takes place on both sides. Who cares? He is specifically talking about the media ignoring incitement to violence and violations of privacy on the part of the right-blogosphere, as opposed to constant coverage (and pearl clutching, finger wagging, couch fainting vapors) of breaches of etiquette on the part of lefties.

    If you can't see the difference, then you are firmly entrenched in the delusion-based community.

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  24. A quibble; at The Poor Man, The Editors is singular.

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  25. Anonymous1:46 PM

    "baghdad" Bart said:
    Glenn, you surely have been blogging long enough to know that flaming is a fact of life on the web.

    Ex. 1:

    Bart, you stoopid, assinine rightbot cretin. Crawl back under your rock, jerkass.

    Ex. 2:
    Here's a photo of and directions to where bart lives, people. This guy deserves a slow death. Bring some rope.


    Please tell me you see a distinction.

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  26. Anonymous1:48 PM

    From Bart at 1:01pm:

    the left can't make a charge of treason against the right

    Ironically, amazingly...Bart has a point.

    "Treason", per the United States Code 18 U.S.C. § 2381: "whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason".

    Much as I hate to say it, I can't think of anything done by either the Bush Administration nor the Congressional leadership that fits this definition. Its been a continuious parade of unethical, deceptive, deliberately negligent, legally abusive, embarrassing, idiotic, corrupt, arrogant, event just plain stupid behavior on their part. But actual, overt treason?

    Sadly, no.

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  27. Anonymous1:49 PM

    But I'm open to correction here.

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  28. "A republic, if you can keep it."

    A principate, because we couldn't.

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  29. Anonymous1:59 PM

    yankeependragon:

    High crimes and misdemeanors don't count, but seem equally serious to me.

    Alas, though, not to anyone with the power to actually charge someone with them.

    If we can avoid being hung, or burned at the stake by MM's brownshirts in the meantime, and if we don't get shot breaking into bart's house, maybe we could lobby our elected representatives about something other than lowering corporate taxes.

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  30. HWSNBN unintentionally gets it:

    If someone misrepresents what you said, then take them to task and correct the record. However, if you are simply flamed, then ignore it.

    And this explains the interaction of the MSM with commenters. But in fact, it's the other way around for the first part; as has been pointed out by such as Media Matters here and other places, it's like pulling teeth to get the MSM to issue corrections of their misstatements.

    Cheers,

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  31. HWSNBN:

    The only reason that the lefties are not making the treason charge is that one of the guiding principles on the right is nationalism and the left can't make a charge of treason against the right which would pass the laugh test.

    No. The only reason that the lefties aren't doing this kind of stuff is that the lefties aren't batsh*t crazy. I thought that Glenn made that obvious with this and other posts.

    Cheers,

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  32. Calls to violence against specific persons is a form of terrorism. Anyone doing so should be prosecuted.

    Prosecution from the state whether it be incarceration, execution, or denial of property is a form of violence. I certainly may be misunderstanding your perspective, but you seem to advocate the idea that a state is incapable of violence and terrorism. If not, by your own logic you should be prosecuted for calling for prosecutions.

    Freedom of speech is not a right to yell "Fire!" in a crowded theater.

    Freedom of speech is the ability to watch a movie in a crowded theater in which the actors in a film yell "Fire" in a crowded theater.

    A desire to control both audience and actors is a desire to control content.

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  33. Anonymous2:16 PM

    From william timberman at 1:59pm:

    High crimes and misdemeanors don't count, but seem equally serious to me.

    Oh, don't get me wrong. This lot of graft-soaked con men and cronies, the likes of which haven't been seen since the whole of the Gilded Age, should be frog-marched to Rykers Island, walled into the cells, and left there to rot.

    The damage they've done to the country will be felt for generations to come, and if there's any justice they'll be placed in history alongside Hitler and Caligula (rather than Washington and Pilsudski, as I'm sure is their preference).

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  34. Anonymous2:18 PM

    And why would we want to break into bart's house? (as motives are often a better clue to true understanding than the deed itself)

    Why, to steal his black velvet painting of General Patton, of course.

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  35. "Treason", per the United States Code 18 U.S.C. § 2381: "whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason".

    I guess it depends on your definition of "enemy." Military personnel and the president take an oath swearing to defend the constitution from enemies "both foreign and domestic."

    Would you consider as an enemy a person or group which continually agitates for the elimination of their political opponents, not based on actual treasonous actions but disagreements with and opposition to their policies? These eliminationists are calling for nothing less than the destruction of the constitutional rights, most notably of the First Amendment, of people who make up over half the population the country. Not only that, they aid, abet, and collaborate with this criminal administration on a "long train of abuses" which are destructive of the principles upon which this country was founded.

    Pigs such as Malkin salivate with the blood lust to send other peoples' children off to be slaughtered.

    They enabled Bush to lie us into an illegal war that is the catalyst for war crimes.

    They enable policies which are leading to, or have already done so, the corporate/fascist takeover of the reigns of gov't.

    Underneath it all, forces are actively and aggressively at work to destroy the separation of Church and State.

    Not sure a foreign enemy could do this much damage.

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  36. Anonymous2:45 PM

    bart: The only reason that the lefties are not making the treason charge is that one of the guiding principles on the right is nationalism and the left can't make a charge of treason against the right which would pass the laugh test.

    You've never seen the President called a traitor online?

    I'll leave it to your judgement whether those making that charge were lefties or not. You seem to have the political landscape all figured out.

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  37. Anonymous2:59 PM

    Not that we actually want the damned painting, you understand. Still, we're under orders. The Donkey/Leftylib PsyOps Council believes that taking it is an important first step in weakening his resolve.

    Of course, we have to get past the claymores in the driveway first. Should be a delicate op, so volunteers only.

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  38. Anonymous2:59 PM

    Not that we actually want the damned painting, you understand. Still, we're under orders. The Donkey/Leftylib PsyOps Council believes that taking it is an important first step in weakening his resolve.

    Of course, we have to get past the claymores in the driveway first. Should be a delicate op, so volunteers only.

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  39. Anonymous3:11 PM

    What is up with blogger today, anyway? Sorry for the duplicate.

    ReplyDelete
  40. Anonymous3:30 PM

    Spot-the-Wonder-Dog says:

    How does the D leadership prevent the re-introduction of the retro-pardon in a conference committee? It is the method of choice for the R's for getting their nastiest tricks done quietly and with no D input at all. Followed by an up-or-down vote (no debate either) where the R's ram it through. So, the fact that Specter may have removed the provision from Section 801 doesn't mean it won't return like one of Poe's cats, and the WH will claim vindication.

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  41. Anonymous3:39 PM

    The “libertarian blogosphere” is engaged in quite the discussion, propelled to a significant extent by Glenn’s posts in the last few months. Jim Henley at Unqualified Offerings is agreeing w/ Glenn G. about Instapundit. He does so in the context of discussing Jon Henke’s post at QandO about Hugh Hewitt’s prototégé, Mary Katherine Ham’s claim (posted at her new Townhall.com digs) that the Democrats can never capture libertarian votes, cuz lookie how nice the Republicans are to "libertarians" like Glenn Reynolds and Jeff Goldstein.

    Many if not the vast majority here are not libertarians, but we who are represent some 15-20% of voters (I’ll track down the several sources for that factoid if someone wants to challenge me), and we have tended to vote GOP. I observe a manifest sea change occurring now among many ‘tarians, who for various reasons are openly considering voting for Democrats; I suggest it would be helpful if liberals/leftists made that choice easier by not caricaturing our views, in much the same way the Bush crowd makes a mockery of yours.

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  42. Anonymous3:46 PM

    I agree, Hypatia. This country hasn't had a left/right policy discussion in a while.

    I think regular folks can unite under the idea that this adminstration is not following the plain language of the US constitution. That's pretty serious.

    First we need to get our representatives to respect the law and structure of the United States government. Then we can have a reasoned discussion on actual political differences.

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  43. Anonymous3:50 PM

    I suggest it would be helpful if liberals/leftists made that choice easier by not caricaturing our views, in much the same way the Bush crowd makes a mockery of yours.

    As an independent, I think the discourse should move away from the left/right, us/them realm and into a discussion of how to fix things, together.

    I may be a naive Pollyanna, but I still believe that humans are generally good (with the obvious exceptions), but that they need good leadership to reach their full potential.

    That is something we are sorely lacking as a people right now. I'm open to any ideas that will work a change in the status quo.

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  44. Anonymous3:58 PM

    Bart, you must be kidding...

    The reason that the Donkey press has next to nothing to say about the righty blogs is that they studiously ignore them as well as the stories they break and the flaming matches they engage in.

    How could you forget Time magazine naming Powerline as "Blog of the Year".

    And this is a typical meaningless (as well as untrue) generalization:

    Instead, the left usually calls the right "warmongers" or "murderers."

    I'm sure you can find a citation for this from some extremist somewhere, but I'm on the left, I have friends on the left, and I read lots of leftist blogs, but I don't recall this as a recurring insult from any serious person.

    And this is laughable:

    because the idea of the left even waging a war is laughable.

    Yup, like George McGovern, John Kerry, and countless others.

    Bart, your posts are typically much better than this. Is someone else using your moniker?

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  45. Anonymous3:59 PM

    yankeependragon said...
    But I'm open to correction here.


    It would be easier to convict them for murder. But really, impeachment and imprisonment would be sufficient.

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  46. Re: the Right's prissiness over obscenity. Here you have emphasis on form over content. Isn't that typical of a consumer society? IE concern for the way it's packaged versus its contents? The problem is, for many consumer products there are safeguards from consumer protection agencies, etc. In public debate and dissemination of public opinion, the press should be our protection, but they have in general failed to do so, preferring form over content.

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  47. Anonymous4:14 PM

    Bart Said

    "The only reason that the lefties are not making the treason charge is that one of the guiding principles on the right is nationalism and the left can't make a charge of treason against the right which would pass the laugh test."

    Tell it to Valerie Plame, outed by Dear Leader W & Karl Rove in a major hissy fit of political pique

    So here's some questions I haven't seen ANY W lackey answer logically in a way postive for this Imperial President



    Valerie Plame's job was to track and disrupt the transfer of WsMD to rogue regimes, groups and individuals, with Iran the focus of her attempts at the time of her outing

    In the course of her efforts, she used a CIA front operation called Brewster Jennings, which meant that she had various dealings with undercover operatives, and double agents in other govts, around the world

    So.....

    How did outing Plame make this country safer as a result?

    How did outing Plame make it easier to recruit the best and the brightest to help keep WsMD out of the hands of rogue regimes, groups and individuals?

    When Plame was outed, it was inevitable that her CIA front of Brewster Jennings would be disclosed as well, thereby exposing all those undercover operatives and double agents in other Govts

    How did outing Plame, and then Brewster Jennings make it easier to recruit the foreign operatives and double agents needed to keep WsMD out of the hands of rogue regimes, groups and individuals?

    How did the Administration's DELIBERATE outing of Plame increase the trust level between the White House and the CIA's intelligence analysts?

    Then again, logic in defending this clearly out of control President's UnConstitutional power grabs is clearly in short supply, especially the claim that W can violate-at will-the very same Constitution he's sworn by law to uphold

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  48. Does anyone know whether Specter put Gonzales under oath this time? Or is he still too respectful of the man's impeccable record of truth-telling to bother?


    I didn`t see the hearings, so I don't know why or how it happened, but I read somewhere credible (Balkin?) that Gonzales was under oath when testifying yesterday.

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  49. Anonymous4:23 PM

    Yes, Hypatia, I would like to see those figures if you have them – they sound a bit high to me. I consider myself “libertarian” on quite a few issues, so it may be how the questions in those polls are being asked. I’m not challenging you, just asking for the evidence -which I haven’t seen before.

    Also, the idea of reaching out to Jeff Goldstein is hilarious, and I’m sure that you and quite a few “libertarians” are embarrassed by him having that label. And the same goes for Glenn Reynolds who has increasingly made an ass out of himself. Perhaps there was a time when he wasn’t a complete embarrassment, but that time has passed.

    Then there is the point that Democrats need to “concede” something to reach out to libertarians. Any suggestions?

    I don’t see them conceding Social Security, Medicare, Environment Protection, and a host of other programs that are very popular with the public but not with libertarians.

    I’m happy to work with libertarians (with whom I agree on a bunch of issues), as well as Republicans who’ve abandoned their party out of complete frustration with what it has become.

    However, I expect that if there is a big change with libertarians and like-minded Republicans it will only last until the Republican Party comes to its senses and stops this authoritarian and theocratic madness, which I don’t see happening for quite a while even if they start losing elections. I think they’ll just get nastier for a while.

    In short, I think that libertarians will just have to concede that, for the time being, the Democratic Party is the lesser of two evils and work from within to promote efficiency with programs that aren’t going away anytime soon.

    I don’t want to see the Democratic Party becoming “all-powerful” either, we need countervailing influences to keep those in power in check regardless of the party. But to do that, the Republican Party needs to return to “adults” who base their arguments on reality and facts rather than faith-based fantasies, propaganda and paranoia.

    I fear that will be a while. And I’m just worried about getting through the next couple years under Bush, quite frankly. It gets scarier by the day.

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  50. Anonymous4:31 PM

    anona asks: Yes, Hypatia, I would like to see those figures if you have them – they sound a bit high to me.

    Sure, if you can wait until tonite when I'm home. I don't mean, by the way big "L" libertarians, but rather that sector of the voting public whose ideological profile fits "libertarian."

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  51. Anonymous4:33 PM

    I don’t see them conceding Social Security, Medicare, Environment Protection, and a host of other programs that are very popular with the public but not with libertarians.

    Here's the thing: I disagree with these sorts of programs in prinicple. I believe that tax-funded federal programs are usually not the best solution to most problems, and that they leave me with a net loss. (Just a statement of how I feel, let's not argue about it right now!)

    The Republican platform will not cost me less than the Democratic platform. Payouts to Halliburton and other Republican pork is at least as bad for me as anything the Democrats have pushed in recent years. Usually, much worse.

    The Republicans are, for some damn reason, still pretending they care about federal spending and promoting free marke enterprise, but people are starting to catch on.

    Republicans don't want a weak central government and a strong, inpdependent private sector. They want a controlled private sector under the thumb of a big central government.

    So, if my choices are between a national health care program (that I'm already paying for) and more wars of choice (which cost me much more with no benefit), I'm going to vote for the first.

    ReplyDelete
  52. How did outing Plame make this country safer as a result?

    You have to accept some premises first.

    The nation is run by a cabal who consider the primary threat to the nation's security and the safety of its citizens
    * not loose nukes,
    * not Wahhabism, Salafism, Qutubism, etc
    * not a rising China, or a resurgent Russia,
    * not North Korean nukes,
    * not the end of cheap oil
    but the return to government by an opposition party in their own countryas the result of peaceful, free, and open election.

    Seen from that perspective, Novak gets a Presidential Medal of Freedom, and Rove and Libby have key office buildings in the Federal Triangle named after them.

    ReplyDelete
  53. Anonymous4:59 PM

    I suggest it would be helpful if liberals/leftists made that choice easier by not caricaturing our views

    That would be easier if so many libertarians didn't have the nasty habit of making caricatures of themselves. How can you possibly take seriously someone who advocates the abolishment of the FDA and child labor laws, for example?

    There may be some "moderate" libertarians, but I haven't met many that identified as libertarians. Those who subscribe to the "no force or fraud" axiom are inherently extremists.

    ReplyDelete
  54. Anonymous5:06 PM

    (3) As has been widely discussed, Alberto Gonzales admitted during testimony before the Senate Judiciary Committee that it was due to President Bush's personal denial of necessary security clearances that the Justice Department's Office of Professional Responsibility was unable to investigate the role played by DoJ lawyers in authorizing the President's warrantless eavesdropping program.

    For those of you who have been using the term "unitary executive" without quite knowing what it means, this is a good example.

    The theory of the unitary executive is that Article II expressly grants all executive power to the President the same way Article I grants all legislative power to the Congress.

    Therefore, the proponents of the "unitary executive" argue that Congress cannot deputize parts of the executive branch to use against the President. This argument was initially used against the Special Prosecutor statute. If Congress, thought the President did something illegal, their constitutional checks are the power of the purse and impeachment, not use of the executive criminal prosecution power.

    This attempt by Donkeys in Congress to use Justice to provide a legal opinion concerning the NSA Program is the same abuse. NSA had its own lawyers examine this program. If Congress wanted a second legal opinion, they have their own legal staff. If they think the program is illegal, defund it or impeach the president.

    What this request was really all about was an attempt to solicit dissenting views in Justice to embarrass the White House. It has nothing to do with justice.

    ReplyDelete
  55. Anonymous5:20 PM

    prunes said...

    bart: The only reason that the lefties are not making the treason charge is that one of the guiding principles on the right is nationalism and the left can't make a charge of treason against the right which would pass the laugh test.

    You've never seen the President called a traitor online?


    Yes.

    This is the equivalent of the schoolyard argument:

    You are a booger!

    No, You are a booger!

    This is usually the retort of a lefty who is being called a traitor or who is defending another who is being called a traitor. Answering a charge with the same charge when the retort is ridiculous doesn't pass the laugh test and most lefties with half a brain don't do it.

    You seem to have the political landscape all figured out.

    Politics has all the complexity of a play ground name calling contest. It isn't hard to figure out if you try. We all play to type to a large extent, myself included.

    ReplyDelete
  56. Yes, Hypatia, I would like to see those figures if you have them – they sound a bit high to me. I consider myself “libertarian” on quite a few issues, so it may be how the questions in those polls are being asked. I’m not challenging you, just asking for the evidence -which I haven’t seen before.

    I recently quoted from someone at Cato quoting data that libertarians are the largest group not affiliated with one party - i.e., the largest group of swing voters. That is libertarians with a small "l," not the Libertarian Party.

    Also, the idea of reaching out to Jeff Goldstein is hilarious, and I’m sure that you and quite a few “libertarians” are embarrassed by him having that label. And the same goes for Glenn Reynolds who has increasingly made an ass out of himself. Perhaps there was a time when he wasn’t a complete embarrassment, but that time has passed.

    Jeff Goldstein and Glenn Reynolds are NOT libertarians. They are neocons and authoritarians - they are really the opposite of libertarians. As Andrew Sullivan recently pointed out, you can't support every expansion of federal power, executive abuses that allow the President to trasgress the law, and endorse any and all forms of militarism both domestically and internationally and have any claim to that term.

    I think "libertarians" is a more informal, rather than formal, designation, and refers to people who generally believe that government should stay out of an individual's life as much as possible and be as limited as possible - more limited than conservatives want the Government to be in almost every area these days, and more limited than liberals generally want the Government to be in economics and business. That's what I consider "libertarian" to be - a John Cole/Jon Henke type citizen.

    ReplyDelete
  57. Anonymous5:30 PM

    Anon, here is libertarian Ryan Sager at Real Clear Politics explaining that sizeable numbers of libertarians in the West make it ripe for Democrats, and Sager says Kos is writing a book about it!

    Just from quick googling (and I really never seek out Newsmax) there is this and then there is also this.

    But I had another source in mind, which I will locate a few hours from now.

    ReplyDelete
  58. Anonymous5:32 PM

    Devoman said...

    Bart, you must be kidding...

    The reason that the Donkey press has next to nothing to say about the righty blogs is that they studiously ignore them as well as the stories they break and the flaming matches they engage in.

    How could you forget Time magazine naming Powerline as "Blog of the Year".


    That isn't the same as paying attention to what Powerline or any other righty blog is saying or going the next step and reporting on news broken in the righty blogosphere.

    For example, the biggest story broken by the blogosphere this year was the translation of capture Iraqi documents revealing the extent of Saddam's WMD programs, his intelligence efforts to avoid their detection and his meaningful and ongoing relations with al Qaeda over the years. Apart from a short NYT story interviewing the translators while ignoring their translations, media silence has been deafening.

    Bart:Instead, the left usually calls the right "warmongers" or "murderers."

    I'm sure you can find a citation for this from some extremist somewhere, but I'm on the left, I have friends on the left, and I read lots of leftist blogs, but I don't recall this as a recurring insult from any serious person.


    Read any thread here concerning the war. You will hear this or identical epithets.

    Bart: because the idea of the left even waging a war is laughable.

    Yup, like George McGovern, John Kerry, and countless others.


    McGovern and Kerry called for cutting and running from Vietnam and Kerry called for the same from Iraq.

    Not a single Donkey President or presidential candidate since Vietnam has called for or waged a ground war. I am not talking about bombing from 30,000 feet with no return fire. I am talking about face-to-face killing or being killed ground combat.

    I am also not talking about what an individual may have done personally in a war in the past. I am talking about waging war as a leader.

    ReplyDelete
  59. Anonymous5:38 PM

    nicteis said...

    Charlie Savage at the Boston Globe, who is making a fair bid to become to print what Glenn has been to the blogosphere, had a front pager today on Gonzales' testimony.

    Among other things, he noted that Gonzales told multiple fibs (Savage's language is not quite that strong) about the President's signing statements, claiming that the Globe had retracted its 700+ count, that the real number was "closer to 125 to 110", and that Clinton had "signed 382 signing statements", making him a worse offender than Bush.

    The Globe stands by its numbers.


    Then, perhaps, the Globe would not mind publishing a list of the bills to which the President attached signing statements.

    This gridlocked Congress hasn't been doing much of anything. I am having a hard time seeing that they passed over 700 bills to which the President could attach signing statements.

    In his article, I think Savage only produced a handful of actual examples. Let's see a list.

    ReplyDelete
  60. Anonymous5:38 PM

    bart: Politics has all the complexity of a play ground name calling contest. It isn't hard to figure out if you try. We all play to type to a large extent, myself included.

    I think this comment rather indicates that you have run into the upper complexity limit of theories you yourself can handle.

    ReplyDelete
  61. Anonymous5:43 PM

    Bart...Not a single Donkey President or presidential candidate since Vietnam has called for or waged a ground war. I am not talking about bombing from 30,000 feet with no return fire. I am talking about face-to-face killing or being killed ground combat.


    Bart thinks this is a bad thing. Watch one get elected in 2008, shitbird. And stop trying to write like Marshall Wittman. It's bad enough when that flake does it. For those unfamiliar with him, he used to be with Ralph Reed's Christian Coalition, Director of Legislative Affairs (Casino Gambling). When you do it, it make people vomit.

    ReplyDelete
  62. Anonymous5:46 PM

    I should say Bart thinks this would be a bad thing, even if it were true.

    ReplyDelete
  63. Anonymous5:50 PM

    From Bart at 5:32pm:

    For example, the biggest story broken by the blogosphere this year was the translation of capture Iraqi documents revealing the extent of Saddam's WMD programs, his intelligence efforts to avoid their detection and his meaningful and ongoing relations with al Qaeda over the years. Apart from a short NYT story interviewing the translators while ignoring their translations, media silence has been deafening.

    So? Equally deafening silence has been the response to the many and serious overcharges Halliburton has bilked the armed forces for in Iraq.

    And concerning those 'translations'? What precisely is the background and CV of the translators, and how much of their work has been verified by external sources?

    Not a single Donkey President or presidential candidate since Vietnam has called for or waged a ground war. I am not talking about bombing from 30,000 feet with no return fire. I am talking about face-to-face killing or being killed ground combat.

    And this is a bad thing because...?

    I am also not talking about what an individual may have done personally in a war in the past. I am talking about waging war as a leader.

    And this has to do with the Bush Administration in what way?

    ReplyDelete
  64. Anonymous5:50 PM

    bart, regarding my previous comment, I would be interested to know your opinion as to my motivation.

    Do you believe I posted that comment because it is my sincere belief, or because of my political leanings?

    Or this very comment, feel free to examine it, too.

    I have a prediction I'd like to test.

    ReplyDelete
  65. Anonymous5:52 PM

    I can't resist a last poke:

    McGovern and Kerry called for cutting and running from Vietnam and Kerry called for the same from Iraq.

    As opposed to Bush's 'plan' of "lie and die"?

    ReplyDelete
  66. Anonymous5:56 PM

    Glenn...I think "libertarians" is a more informal, rather than formal, designation, and refers to people who generally believe that government should stay out of an individual's life as much as possible and be as limited as possible - more limited than conservatives want the Government to be in almost every area these days, and more limited than liberals generally want the Government to be in economics and business. That's what I consider "libertarian" to be - a John Cole/Jon Henke type citizen.

    "Limited government" is, and always was "code" for no taxes, just tax breaks for the rich and no spending on anything but the military-industrial complex and nothing for the poor. Try to sell that when it's put that way. That should be pretty obvious to all by now. It was obvious to some folks over 100 years ago.

    Dean Baker calls it The Conservative Nanny State

    ReplyDelete
  67. Anonymous5:58 PM

    Anonymous said...

    Bart...Not a single Donkey President or presidential candidate since Vietnam has called for or waged a ground war. I am not talking about bombing from 30,000 feet with no return fire. I am talking about face-to-face killing or being killed ground combat.

    Bart thinks this is a bad thing.


    9/11.

    Watch one get elected in 2008, shitbird.

    Not a chance.

    Hillary is your only candidate with half a chance and she will lose by at least six points to either McCain or Rudy.

    However, if the Dems are brain dead enough to nominate 2008's version of George McGovern (Russ Feingold comes to mind), look for a 1972 level landslide.

    ReplyDelete
  68. Anonymous6:01 PM

    From Bart at 5:58pm:

    9/11.

    What about it? Bush shows what a craven coward he is, his idea of leadership being to be completely absent from the head of the table.

    Leadership like that the country can live without.

    ReplyDelete
  69. Anonymous6:02 PM

    I've always preferred the term non-intrusive or non-interventionist and efficient government. Unless we are going to limit the military industrial complex as well. "Limited government" the way these people mean it is neither limited, competent or efficient. It's just more doubleplusgood bullshit.

    ReplyDelete
  70. Anonymous6:02 PM

    "Limited government" is, and always was "code" for no taxes, just tax breaks for the rich and no spending on anything but the military-industrial complex and nothing for the poor.

    [insert insult here]. There are people who are both consistent in their beliefs and desire limited federal government. This obviously precludes the socialist military-industrial complex.

    ReplyDelete
  71. Anonymous6:02 PM

    Bart, do you mean brain dead like W?

    ReplyDelete
  72. Anonymous6:04 PM

    I think "libertarians" is a more informal, rather than formal, designation, and refers to people who generally believe that government should stay out of an individual's life as much as possible and be as limited as possible - more limited than conservatives want the Government to be in almost every area these days, and more limited than liberals generally want the Government to be in economics and business.

    By that definition, then, I would be comfortable with a small “l” designation.

    The problem, for me, comes from some of the people who label themselves as such. They don’t want “limited” government, they don’t want “any” government in respect to business and economics.

    Which means that there would be no “check” on mergers and acquisitions and little to stop consolidation of power in the economic sphere. It’s possible that we’d end up with one giant “media” company that controlled everything.

    The “free market” only works when there are constraints against too much power, and just like we need checks and balances in the political realm, we need them in the economic and business sphere as well.

    I believe in the letting the market work, but to do that, you do need a power big enough to step in and call foul once in a while. I want someone on the back of people like Ken Lay when they go too far and rob not only energy consumers, but their own shareholders.

    What power can do that other than government? And if government oversight can fit in a “bathtub” then there is no oversight and government can’t do it either, and that’s what lots of people calling themselves libertarians (e.g. Grover Norquist) want.

    I haven’t heard him complaining about the corrupt welfare queens at Halliburton (and some other military contractors) getting paid for nothing, and that waste pales in comparison to the government waste, fraud and abuse he’s been wailing about for years.

    How do libertarians intend to prevent that from happening again?

    Sadly, a lot of the people calling themselves “libertarians” don’t want to stop such abuse, they want to profit from it.

    ReplyDelete
  73. Anonymous6:04 PM

    W's actions would be equivalent to the captain of the Titanic. After hitting the ice berg W would be shreiking 'Stay the Course!'. And of course his useless rubberstamp crew would be stomping on the gas!

    ReplyDelete
  74. Anonymous6:05 PM

    JaO said...

    bart: If Congress wanted a second legal opinion, they have their own legal staff. If they think the program is illegal, defund it or impeach the president.

    What this request was really all about was an attempt to solicit dissenting views in Justice to embarrass the White House. It has nothing to do with justice.

    bart misstates the facts (again).

    The OPR investigation that was blocked by Bush had no mandate to decide the underlying legality of the NSA program, but was focused on whether DOJ lawyers had acted ethically in approving and administering it.


    Huh?

    1) DOJ did not "approve" the program, the President did.

    2) How can DOJ find that their lawyers acted "unethically" unless they find that the program was somehow contrary to law?

    It was a partisan political fishing expedition asked for only by the Dems.

    As for bart's stawman, of course the way to get a definitive ruling on the underlying legality of the NSA program all along has been for Bush to submit it to judicial review, which he has cowered from doing. Instead, he is maneuvering politically with Specter to have Congress surrender and render the issue moot.

    Exactly what problem do you have with the democratic political process.

    If you don't like the results from our elected representatives, campaign for other candidates who support impeaching the President for what you consider to be law breaking.

    TELL IT TO THE VOTERS!

    ReplyDelete
  75. Anonymous6:07 PM

    I'm sure it's a waste of time, but for elBarto, here's a concise list of GW's signing statements as assembled by some nice person.

    As far as 'l' libertarians, I have a problem with labels. What's the correct label for a person like me who believes in maximum freedom for individuals and maximum regulation of large corporations with an absolute minimum of secrecy in government?

    ReplyDelete
  76. Anonymous6:10 PM

    9/11.

    I think bart is trying to say that 9/11 happened because Democrats weren't proactive enough in starting wars.

    Hillary is your only candidate with half a chance and she will lose by at least six points to either McCain or Rudy.

    Hillary is one of the most loathed figures in politics. Anyone would be a better option.

    ReplyDelete
  77. Anonymous6:12 PM

    Bart...Hillary is your only candidate with half a chance and she will lose by at least six points to either McCain or Rudy.

    I'd dig up one of your comments from a month ago about Iraq, but why bother. Recent poll I saw said McCain was not acceptable to 1 in 4 Republicans. The Mayor is lied even less. I don't care for Hillary all that much, but if she is the nominee, and that's hardly a given, she'll walk away with it. You fools will probably end up with Allen. You current 3 ring circus of clowns won't see the inside of the WH without an invitation for another 30 years. This GOP controlled disaster will always be associated with 9/11. You desperate incompetent morons made sure of that. Neither will be forgotten any time soon. But you keep on deluding yourself. It's all youve got.

    ReplyDelete
  78. Anonymous6:15 PM

    Prunes...Hillary is one of the most loathed figures in politics. Anyone would be a better option.

    Actually not. Polls better than all the others overall. That's just the facts.

    ReplyDelete
  79. Anonymous6:19 PM

    yankeependragon said...

    From Bart at 5:32pm: For example, the biggest story broken by the blogosphere this year was the translation of captured Iraqi documents revealing the extent of Saddam's WMD programs, his intelligence efforts to avoid their detection and his meaningful and ongoing relations with al Qaeda over the years. Apart from a short NYT story interviewing the translators while ignoring their translations, media silence has been deafening.

    So? Equally deafening silence has been the response to the many and serious overcharges Halliburton has bilked the armed forces for in Iraq.


    LMAO! Do a Lexis Nexis search for the number of times Haliburton, Iraq and overcharge are mentioned in the same article. You should find hundreds...

    And concerning those 'translations'? What precisely is the background and CV of the translators, and how much of their work has been verified by external sources?

    Ray Robison is a former member of the Iraq Survey Group and a former military operations research officer.

    Robison is working with 1-2 Arabic speakers to check his work.

    The other major translator uses the handle jveritas and is actually a Lebanese arabic speaker.

    Robison and jveritas are writing a book based on the translations.

    Their are some a few other occasional translators.

    When multiple translators have addressed the same document, they have been good about placing them side by side for comparisons.

    They don't play hide and seek with the original documents. There are almost always links to the original government internet posting of the document for comparison.

    I would welcome translations by the left. The documents are there waiting for them. Instead, they are ignoring the evidence afraid it may put a lie to their defenses of Hussein.

    ReplyDelete
  80. Anonymous6:21 PM

    As far as 'l' libertarians, I have a problem with labels. What's the correct label for a person like me who believes in maximum freedom for individuals and maximum regulation of large corporations with an absolute minimum of secrecy in government?

    There are a million of them, but left libertarian, anarcho-syndicalist, mutualist, cooperative individualism, free market anti-capitalist. "Libertarian" the word was coined by one of Bakunin's disciples over a 100 years ago. An anarcho-communist. Libertarian party of America is pretty odd compared to the other variants around the globe.

    ReplyDelete
  81. Anonymous6:22 PM

    Jesus, bart, are you sure you're a libertarian (armed or otherwise) and not a Starship Trooper?

    You don't sound much like Hypatia to me. You're mad at us because we don't kill enough people up close and personal? This I really don't understand. Who do you think needs killing now? And wouldn't by any means necessary work just as well? Do we really have to stick a gladius hispaniensis in their bellies before you'll be happy?

    And to Hypatia, I say this: as one who's been snippy about libertarians here before, and directly to you, let me say that I suspect I might easily make common cause with you in a number of areas, as a "leftist," if you -- or rather Libertarians with a capital L -- didn't seem to me to be so determined to recast human nature according to a list of Platonic ideals and a high-school debate team manual.

    I'm not interested in categorical imperatives -- are you listening, bart? -- but in what works. And by what "works," I mean with respect to this familar phrase: in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity.

    If that means a state interest in the redistribution of income, I see no infringement on liberty, as long as we vote on the nature of that interest.

    To me it means staying out of our bedrooms, and possibly letting us buy a joint, but it definitely doesn't mean letting every gun-loving jackass -- elephant, excuse me, bart -- in Arizona go about packing iron.

    Anyway, maybe we might find a party we could both vote for someday, but for the moment I suspect it's still more Democrats for me and Republicans for you. Bart, I don't know about you, maybe Stahlhelm, if we can find a branch in Colorado.

    Ain't practical politics messy?

    ReplyDelete
  82. Anonymous6:25 PM

    Bart... Ray Robison is a former member of the Iraq Survey Group and a former military operations research officer.

    Robison is working with 1-2 Arabic speakers to check his work.


    That's great news, Bart!!

    We are all glad that Curveball and Ahmed Chalabi have found new jobs. And Curveball found a new handle!

    Did Curt Weldon write them a letter. or did he just send it telepathetically?

    ReplyDelete
  83. Anonymous6:29 PM

    Anonymous said...
    "Limited government" the way these people mean it is neither limited, competent or efficient. It's just more doubleplusgood bullshit.

    6:02 PM



    That's doubleplusUNgood. :)

    ReplyDelete
  84. Anonymous6:30 PM

    From Bart at 6:19pm:

    Do a Lexis Nexis search for the number of times Haliburton, Iraq and overcharge are mentioned in the same article. You should find hundreds...

    Fine. Good plan. Let me know what you find when you do that.

    Robison is working with 1-2 Arabic speakers to check his work. The other major translator uses the handle jveritas and is actually a Lebanese arabic speaker.

    So, ones a former member of the ISG, the other uses a 'handle'. Nothing about how extensive their language skills are, nor on whose behalf they are translating this material.

    Color me supremely unimpressed.

    I would welcome translations by the left. The documents are there waiting for them. Instead, they are ignoring the evidence afraid it may put a lie to their defenses of Hussein.

    Considering no-one was making or offering defenses of the late regime, I'm not sure what you're saying here. Perhaps you could try speaking in plain English?

    ReplyDelete
  85. Anonymous6:39 PM

    Ray, (Roy Orbitson) Robison makes Curt Weldon and Bart look sane by comparison. That's no mean feat.

    Don't take my word for it. Read his comments. He's the real deal. A nutbar.

    ReplyDelete
  86. Anonymous6:43 PM

    That's doubleplusUNgood. :)

    Yeah, baldie, that's why Bush is having Kofi clean up his mess. It's pretty sad when the US has to hat in hand (or buttered muffin in mouth) to the UN for relief. Maybe the UN is doubleplusgood after all. Or is just that Bush can't eat and diplomatize with his mouth closed.

    ReplyDelete
  87. Just out of curiosity. Seeing "treason" bandied about makes me uncomfortable because what is the punishment for traitors?...

    On the other hand, would a Rove style attack against the administration be effective in the media? Take the greatest strength of the opposing side then say and do anything to make that strength a weakness. (e.g. swiftboating)

    So, would saying that the president and the administration are, "traitors to the constituion" over and over again be effective?

    As we know whether its true or not is not the point, but would it be effective?

    Would it change the dialogue in the media?

    ReplyDelete
  88. Anonymous7:15 PM

    Considering no-one was making or offering defenses of the late regime...

    No one? What about George Galloway?

    ReplyDelete
  89. Anonymous7:35 PM

    Glenn,

    How is Mona?

    ReplyDelete
  90. Anonymous7:52 PM

    From anonymous at 7:15pm:

    What about George Galloway?

    What about him? Remind us all please exactly what he said.

    ReplyDelete
  91. Anonymous8:02 PM

    Glenn,

    likely not on-topic but fyi anyways.. there has been a debate in climate change twixt stats guys and scientists. link below if you need verify more context to this note.

    But something came up re Charlie Savage whom I know you've cited recently.. here tis..

    "Boston Globe’s Charlie Savage has counted about 780 Bush statements since 2001 which “purport” to negate statute; but the OLC person who represented the administration in Senate Judiciary Committee hearings approximately last week cited only 112 GWBush constitutional blue pencillings; that is quite a disparity of estimates. The scholar to whom I refer likes to examine each memorandum’s cites by statutory provision; I think the OLC person counts as one statement a memo that enumerates, perhaps a dozen or more displeasing statutes."

    link: http://crookedtimber.org/2006/07/15/adventures-in-social-network-analysis/

    ReplyDelete
  92. William Timberman:

    What is up with blogger today, anyway? Sorry for the duplicate.

    You can delete a duplicate post (or one which you decide on second thought and sober reflectrion to take back). There's a little garbage can near the bottom of each post you make; click it and you can "do the right thing' as warranted.

    Cheers,

    ReplyDelete
  93. Anonymous8:49 PM

    Bartbarian says, "LMAO! Do a Lexis Nexis search for the number of times Haliburton, Iraq and overcharge are mentioned in the same article. You should find hundreds..."

    And yet, Halliburton continues to be awarded sweetheart no-bid contracts, and little or nothing substantive is done to punish their ongoing theft of taxpayers' money. Your own statement is damning: "...hundreds of times..."

    This is the company of which President--I mean, Vice-President-- Big DICK was formerly the CEO. Their blatant and ongoing theft of taxpayers' money cannot be unknown to him and must therefore be considered to be countenanced by him, he who still receives deferred payment from them. In other words, the money stolen from American taxpayers is going right into his pocket.

    Nice bunch you're standing behind, Bart!

    ReplyDelete
  94. Anonymous8:51 PM

    I think we need to make it REALLY simple for el Barto to understand signing statements, so allow me to quote from the website referred to by anon at 6:07 pm:

    "A single signing statement may comment on several provisions of the Congressional enactment to which it pertains. Some people count each statutory (or non-codified) provision affected by a single document as a separate statement. Under this metric, a single document that challenges 40 laws is counted as 40 signing statements.

    Months ago, Charlie Savage, of the Boston Globe, and Christopher Kelley, Ph.D, a political scientist at the University of Miami, examined the signing statement documents existing at that time and found challenges to about 750 Congressional enactments within those documents. For instance, Professor Kelley has found challenges to about 50 laws in a single bill signing statement (the statement for the Consolidated Appropriations Act of 2004). By Professor Kelley's latest count, the documents called "signing statements" collectively challenge just over 800 Congressional enactments.

    Many media and web sources have not updated their numbers since the early counts and do not distinguish between the signing statement documents and the number of laws challenged. Therefore, reports that there are 750 statements are common. At this point, it is probably a bit more accurate to say that, to date, 130 signing statements challenge about 800 federal laws."

    Now I know this is a lot for the Bartman to read at one sitting, but I'm hoping he is now satisfied that these numbers are indeed not made up from whole cloth. (oh who am I kidding? He'll have some kind of half-baked off-topic answer, won't he?)

    ReplyDelete
  95. Bart -- I begin by acknowledging that I am totally ignorant about these documents you say prove that Saddam Hussein had WMD and ties to Al Qaeda. I am not qualified to argue on the subject. But if the translators really have found a smoking gun, why isn't Bush proclaiming it to the skies? I grant you, the MSM hate him, but they can hardly ignore him; he is the President, after all. So if he really has found his smoking gun, why isn't he crowing about it the way he did about those two hydrogen trailers?

    ReplyDelete
  96. Anonymous9:06 PM

    Arne:

    Thanks. Yes, I've seen this post has been deleted by the author and looked for an obvious way to do it when blogger blew up on me this a.m., but in my browser window at least, blogger has no such little icon.

    I'm posting as other rather than blogger. Might I need a blogger account to do as you suggest? Or am I missing something obvious?

    ReplyDelete
  97. HWSNBN makes his fondness for the king clear:

    The theory of the unitary executive is that Article II expressly grants all executive power to the President the same way Article I grants all legislative power to the Congress.

    And rational people understand that the executive may reasonably promulgate "regulations", just as they see that Congress may regulate, fund (or defund), and conduct oversight of the executive.

    Therefore, the proponents of the "unitary executive" argue that Congress cannot deputize parts of the executive branch to use against the President. This argument was initially used against the Special Prosecutor statute. If Congress, thought the President did something illegal, their constitutional checks are the power of the purse and impeachment, not use of the executive criminal prosecution power.

    HWSNBN thinks the executive can't perform investigations of themselves ... or certainly not the preznit. "When the president does it, it is not illegal." But HWSNBN seems to be assuming that the preznit is behind any illegality. Why not investigate and find out? Surely Dubya has nothing to fear....

    If Congress provides for a OPR, and wants to know what they find, that's what they're supposed to be doing.

    This attempt by Donkeys in Congress to use Justice to provide a legal opinion concerning the NSA Program is the same abuse. NSA had its own lawyers examine this program....

    Yeah, and IIRC, some had deep misgivings or may even have quit.

    ... If Congress wanted a second legal opinion, they have their own legal staff. If they think the program is illegal, defund it or impeach the president.

    Patience is the watchword. HWSNBN has still to learn this.

    What this request was really all about was an attempt to solicit dissenting views in Justice to embarrass the White House. It has nothing to do with justice.

    It's to find out WTF is going on. Sounds reasonable to me.

    Cheers,

    ReplyDelete
  98. Anonymous9:16 PM

    Enlightened Layperson says " I grant you, the MSM hate (Bush)...."

    On what basis do you make this statement? Given the degree to which Bush, even now, is given a free ride by the MSM on the ongoing disaster which is his Presidency, and given their refusal to confront him--Hell, even to discuss in print or on air--on his various lies and baloney, I'd say the MSM largely act as apologists and propagandists FOR this administration.

    ReplyDelete
  99. Anonymous9:21 PM

    This, from the Guardian:

    One in three Spaniards still back Franco

    Arne, not even I would have that kind of patience. Hell, I don't even have that much time.

    I fear once the Codpieceprinzip is firmly established, it's gonna take God's own mechanic to dismantle it.

    ReplyDelete
  100. HWSNBN:

    For example, the biggest story broken by the blogosphere this year was the translation of capture Iraqi documents revealing the extent of Saddam's WMD programs, his intelligence efforts to avoid their detection and his meaningful and ongoing relations with al Qaeda over the years.

    Translated courtesy of me from Republican into English: "The biggest story of the year is that Curt Weldon and Rick Santorum are psychotic and that the RW foamer brigades are loony-toons." Yes, that's what Glenn's been blogging about....

    Cheers,

    ReplyDelete
  101. Anonymous9:35 PM

    Arne: Translated courtesy of me from Republican into English

    Somehow I just knew you were polylingual. Perhaps instead of Secretary of Defense, you could serve as White House Translator, operating out of the Press Secretary's office. I don't see how they could require U.S. citizenship for that.

    Of course, then we couldn't call 'em "Snow jobs," could we?

    ReplyDelete
  102. jao:

    As for bart's "unitary executive" explanation, I agree that Bush probably had the authority to do this, just as Nixon had the authority to fire Archibald Cox in the Saturday Night Massacre. That doesn't mean the actions were not despicable.

    If Dubya didn't want an investigation, he should have done so directly, and ordered it to stop (this sleaze-ass "I won't give you security clearance, not I won't" shite is just dishonest and dishonourable). That's what Nixon did (and he took the heat for it). Dubya won't take heat for anything; hell, he was running away from Vietnam and drinking while Nixon was firing Cox.

    Cheers,

    ReplyDelete
  103. Robert 1014

    I think the MSM take a basically adversarial position toward any President, and Bush has aggravated it with his obvious hostility toward them. But you miss my primary point. But you miss my primary point. If these documents are such a scoop as Bart says, why isn't Bush using his power as President to publicize them? If the MSM really do act as his apologists and propagandists, then my point is only amplified.

    ReplyDelete
  104. William Timberman:

    I'm posting as other rather than blogger. Might I need a blogger account to do as you suggest? Or am I missing something obvious?

    Yes, that may be. Otherwise, I suppose, each "anonymous" could nuke those of the rest. I see the icon, but I have a blogger account. It's free, you know. And if you wnat you can even get a blog of your own.

    Cheers,

    ReplyDelete
  105. Arne:

    Actually, I have one -- it was just more convenient to use other,until this a.m.'s glitch, that is.

    Well, okay, here we go....

    ReplyDelete
  106. Yep, trash can. And my name is green, just like the big boys.

    ReplyDelete
  107. Anonymous10:16 PM

    What about him? Remind us all please exactly what he said.

    From a site that no one can claim is on the right:

    In January 1994 Galloway, his voice vibrating with deep feeling, his body language and manner strongly suggestive of awe and respect, stood before the Iraqi Hitler, Saddam Hussein, in a Baghdad palace and praised his courage, strength and indefatigability.

    "Sir," said Galloway, standing within smelling distance of the mass murderer, "Sir…- we salute your courage, your strength, your indefatigability".

    Galloway was one of a delegation of European MPs who took it on themselves to present Saddam Hussein with a pennant from Palestinian youth in the Israeli-occupied territory, from which they had just come.

    Having praised "Sir's" courage, strength and indefatigability, Galloway went on to inform Saddam Hussein that the people he had visited in Palestine were naming their children after him. And not only were the Palestinians with him.
    Galloway ended his speech with the words: "We are with you," and then some words in Arabic, which the BBC translated as "Until victory! Until Jerusalem!"

    ReplyDelete
  108. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

    ReplyDelete
  109. Anonymous10:46 PM

    It got an LGF link, so a few thousand people have seen it.

    I'm sure Glenn really cares alot that a bunch of maniacal, illiterate sicko haters at LGF are reading whatever your latest insult-strewn post is directed at Glenn.

    ReplyDelete
  110. Anonymous10:46 PM

    William Timberman said...

    Jesus, bart, are you sure you're a libertarian (armed or otherwise) and not a Starship Trooper?

    :::chuckle:::

    Sometimes I think Heinlien's idea of limiting the franchise to military veterans on the grounds that only they can truly understand the cost of freedom might have some merit...

    Anyway, I posted here a couple times that I diverge from the libertarians when it comes to national defense. Libertarians are isolationists and believe that the military should be limited to a militia.

    You're mad at us because we don't kill enough people up close and personal?

    Hardly. I support using all means necessarily to defeat enemies which are or are threatening to war against our nation. The left does not.

    War is ALWAYS the last resort, but it has to be a resort. Diplomacy and politics are much more likely to succeed if the alternative is war. If your enemies know you will not consider war, they are free to ignore you.

    I'm not interested in categorical imperatives -- are you listening, bart? -- but in what works. And by what "works," I mean with respect to this familar phrase: in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity.

    OK, you are a utilitarian. I am not. I believe in liberty even when it is inefficient.

    If that means a state interest in the redistribution of income, I see no infringement on liberty, as long as we vote on the nature of that interest.

    I cannot agree that allowing the majority to steal from a minority by voting is a good idea.

    Redistribution also doesn't work because the looted minority slows its creation of wealth and jobs.

    That makes you a leftist and not a utilitarian.

    To me it means staying out of our bedrooms, and possibly letting us buy a joint, but it definitely doesn't mean letting every gun-loving jackass -- elephant, excuse me, bart -- in Arizona go about packing iron.

    Again, I am a libertarian here. I want to decriminalize drugs because you should not punish people for harming themselves.

    Furthermore, the most fundamental right is to defend yourself and others and your property from anarchy, criminals, invaders and, if need be, your government. Part and parcel of that right is the right to keep and bear arms.

    Both of these liberties also work in a practical sense.

    Once again, you are taking the leftist position.

    Are you sure that you are a utilitarian?

    I am not sure who we could both vote for.

    ReplyDelete
  111. Anonymous10:57 PM

    Patterico and his compulsive posting and commenting -- apparently all over -- about Glenn Greenwald bring to mind one of my favorite foreign phrases, namely, idée fixe.

    From Encarta:

    i·dée fixe (plural i·dées fixes)

    noun Definition: obsessive idea: an idea that remains fixed and unchanging in the mind and often becomes an obsession

    [< French, "fixed idea"]


    Roget's New Millennium Thesaurus:

    Main Entry: fixation Part of Speech: noun Definition: obsession Synonyms: bug, case, complex, craze, crush, fascination, fetish, hang-up*, idée fixe, infatuation, mania, preoccupation, thing

    But gentle readers, I implore thee all, let this be the last word, and engageth not his complex, craze etc.

    ReplyDelete
  112. Anonymous10:57 PM

    Unelightened layperson...I grant you, the MSM hate him

    What planet are you from? Really?

    Do you actually think this "Donkey media" is more than a figment of Bart's imagination, or are you just doing this for the sake of argument? We know what the extreme right wing media looks like, don't we? Now please point us to this "Donkey media" that hates Bush. We are all anxious to have a look.

    ReplyDelete
  113. patterico, clueless as the rest:

    Glenn Greenwald links Sadly, No! multiple times, but fails to condemn their T-shirts calling for the murder of conservatives.

    Yep, I'll link 'em too. How's about dem apples, Patterico? Let us know when your rosy is getting a mite too rosy. We might take pity. Might.

    Cheers,

    ReplyDelete
  114. HWSNBN the neocon:

    Sometimes I think Heinlien's idea of limiting the franchise to military veterans on the grounds that only they can truly understand the cost of freedom might have some merit...

    Ummm, yep. Strauss has another one in the bag.

    Cheers,

    ReplyDelete
  115. HWSNBN:

    War is ALWAYS the last resort,...

    Yeah, that's what Commander Codpiece said. He lied. HWSNBN is lying too.

    Cheers,

    ReplyDelete
  116. bart:

    Well said, well said. Pretty much what I expected. I imagine the reverse is true as well. Knowing your enemy is always prudent, and if labels help your indefatigible efforts at left wing taxonomy, how about left utilitarian. I admit it sounds like something that might once have been denounced at a party congress as a heretical tendency, but hell, you can't have everything.

    And, just bye-the-bye, here's another thought. Perhaps, in addition to restricting the franchise to veterans, you'd also sign on to the immortal words of George S. Patton -- wait for it -- "Save the procreational activities for the fighting men."

    Yes, I know that isn't precisely what he said, but this is a family magazine.

    Abrazos....

    ReplyDelete
  117. HWSNBN is under the strange impression that it's rich people, not capital, that makes jobs:

    Redistribution also doesn't work because the looted minority slows its creation of wealth and jobs.

    Give a poor man a million, and he'll build a factory. Give a rich man another million, and he's buy a Lambourghini.

    Cheers,

    ReplyDelete
  118. Anonymous11:10 PM

    Bart...:::chuckle:::

    Sometimes I think Heinlien's idea of limiting the franchise to military veterans on the grounds that only they can truly understand the cost of freedom might have some merit...



    It's called science fiction.

    You can always spot the freepers by their inane and puerile Heinlein references.

    Heinlein was what's called in the industry a "young adult" author. Ready for another comic book, Bart?

    Patterico can have a coloring book if he promise not to eat all the crayons.

    Anyway, I posted here a couple times that I diverge from the libertarians when it comes to national defense. Libertarians are isolationists and believe that the military should be limited to a militia.

    That's big "L" American Libertarian Party. They may have a dog catcher in office a few places. Then there is the wingnut Ron Paul. As Glenn observed, these are not mainstream, self-identified small "l" libertarians who have never even read the party platform. If they had, and understood how extreme it is, they are hardly mainstream. Anyone here read the 2004 Libertarian party platform?

    Does legalization of baby selling, polygamy, secession, child prostitution, all drugs, insider trading, turn you on? It calls for abolition of public schools, medicaid, and Social Security, patents, and copyrights. And even privatization of air. Getting a woody yet?

    All that and more, cloaked in vague statements of "liberty", and now carefully sanitized so that non-libertarians won't realize how truly extreme it is.

    ReplyDelete
  119. JaO said...

    bart: 1) DOJ did not "approve" the program, the President did.

    But there were DOJ legal opinions asserting it to be lawful. Those opinions still have not been made public, even in redacted form.


    1) What DOJ memos concerning the NSA program? The Yoo memo wasn't on the NSA program.

    2) What DOJ stated internally to the President is protected by executive privilege and none of Congress' business. The President has given you his legal authority.

    Even if internal memos are not made public, that is what the department's internal ethics office is there for.

    So now you wish to punish lawyers for giving legal advice with which you disagree? That is why the executive privilege is in place.

    bart: 2) How can DOJ find that their lawyers acted "unethically" unless they find that the program was somehow contrary to law?

    Sorry, I forgot you were absent the day they taught ethics in law school.

    It's a matter of applying the right standard of certainty to the internal opinions, making sure the proper legal opinions were in place at the right time to justify operational orders to proceed, good-faith regard for precedents, application of existing OLC opinions that advise the presumption that a statute is constitutional, and deferring to what the lawyers expected in good faith that the Supreme Court would actually rule on constitutional issues, even if they disagreed with such a prospective ruling.


    As I stated in far fewer words, you are investigating these lawyers for giving a legal opinion supporting a program which you consider to be illegal. I guess I did miss that "offense" in the ethical codes.

    My God, every single lawyer has given an opinion to a client which has lost before some judge who disagreed. I guess we should all be disbarred for "ethical lapses."

    ReplyDelete
  120. Anonymous11:19 PM

    Yankee:

    Bart: I would welcome translations by the left. The documents are there waiting for them. Instead, they are ignoring the evidence afraid it may put a lie to their defenses of Hussein.

    Considering no-one was making or offering defenses of the late regime, I'm not sure what you're saying here. Perhaps you could try speaking in plain English?


    Right.

    This blog and others is filled with nonsense about how Saddam had no WMD and no connection with al Qaeda and the US had no basis for war.

    These are defenses of Saddam.

    Plain enough?

    ReplyDelete
  121. Ah, bart, the real moniker. Or not? No relation to Brian, I suppose. (Yes, I know he uses a space, so what was I thinking?)

    Arne, HWSNBN must now be named, I think. Or not.

    It's all so confusing.

    ReplyDelete
  122. Anonymous11:32 PM

    Anonymous said...

    I'm sure it's a waste of time, but for elBarto, here's a concise list of GW's signing statements as assembled by some nice person.

    I appreciate that link. Seem to match Mr. Gonzales' memory far closer than Savage's fabrication, which is described as follows:

    "A single signing statement may comment on several provisions of the Congressional enactment to which it pertains. Some people count each statutory (or non-codified) provision affected by a single document as a separate statement. Under this metric, a single document that challenges 40 laws is counted as 40 signing statements.

    Months ago, Charlie Savage, of the Boston Globe, and Christopher Kelley, Ph.D, a political scientist at the University of Miami, examined the signing statement documents existing at that time and found challenges to about 750 Congressional enactments within those documents. For instance, Professor Kelley has found challenges to about 50 laws in a single bill signing statement (the statement for the Consolidated Appropriations Act of 2004). By Professor Kelley's latest count, the documents called "signing statements" collectively challenge just over 800 Congressional enactments.


    This is what is known as junk science in support of a fraud.

    A signing statement is one signing statement, not 40 or 50 signing statements.

    I suspected Savage was a liar. This confirms it.

    ReplyDelete
  123. Anonymous11:33 PM

    Patterico said...

    Heh. But I got screenshots!


    There's just no excuse for Sadly, No! stealing Misha's bad jokes, over the top hyperbole and parody. Those Sadly, No! people should be hung. Conservatives, OTOH, belong in a zoo or museum. Maybe shot, stuffed and mounted and hung on a wall.

    ReplyDelete
  124. Anonymous11:42 PM

    William Timberman said...

    Ah, bart, the real moniker. Or not? No relation to Brian, I suppose.

    I am told that he is a distant relation. I don't know the man personally.

    ReplyDelete
  125. Anonymous11:52 PM

    Bart... Right.

    This blog and others is filled with nonsense about how Saddam had no WMD and no connection with al Qaeda and the US had no basis for war.

    These are defenses of Saddam.

    Plain enough?


    I'm just curious. Is it the WMD or the al-Qaeda connections, or both?
    Pakistan has both, definitely. Casus belli? Saddam used to be an ally of ours, as Pakistan is now, and Pakistan has tangled over territory with a neighbor who is also an ally of ours, India. The list could grow rather long if it just has to be one or the other.

    Reality is nonsense, isn't it?

    ReplyDelete
  126. To anonymous:

    The MSM did blow the whistle on Bush's "black sites" and extraordinary renditions. They exposed Abu Graib and Haditha. They informed us of Bush's warrantless surveillance and his "data mining" fishing operations. They went out of their way to publicize his low approval ratings. I do take all this as signs of an adversarial relationship, even if the MSM do sometimes allow the hysteria of the Right to intimidate them. But maybe you are right and I should have said, "even assuming for the sake of argument that the MSM hate Bush, they cannot ignore him."

    But, once again, this is not my primary point. My primary point is that if these documents Bart is talking about are legitimate, why is Bush so quiet about them. Why isn't he trumpeting them. The way he trumpeted those bioweapons labs that turned out to be hydrogen trailers. The way he trumpeted the death of al-Zarqawi as somethign that would make a difference. The way he keeps trumpeting all these times that we have "turned the corner." If we've finally found proof that Saddam Hussein had WMD that he inexplicably did not use when we invaded, or that he was in bed with Al-Qaeda, why isn't Bush calling a press conference to announce it? Bart, you deigned to spar with me once before, do you have an answer?

    ReplyDelete
  127. Anonymous12:24 AM

    Patterico... By the way, I have run into two arguments from the left today. #1: you don't address Greenwald's real points. When I offer arguments and links to show I have, it's offered as proof that he has "gotten to me."

    ...

    Besides, Greenwald himself accused me of bowing out just when the going was getting rough. It's always the way: make your arguments and you're an obsessive; don't make them and you're running away. Typical talking out of both sides of the posterior, typical of Greenwald, and typical of his supporters.


    Perhaps the fact that a sizable portion of "Greenwald's supporters" are from the right is confusing to you. Observations about your failure to address Glenn's points convincingly and acting like an adolescent when this is pointed out are not helping your case much. You would do well to recognize that you are fighting a two front war here. It is your posterior and flanks that need defending and you don't seem up to the task. Bowing out may be prudent if you still have an avenue of escape. It's a desperate and jarring panic that sets in when you realize you have painted yourself into a rhetorical corner and a gracious concession of defeat is no longer an option. That just leaves the inevitable and lingering humiliation of an unconditional surrender, or escape into delusion.

    ReplyDelete
  128. HWSNBN:

    2) What DOJ stated internally to the President is protected by executive privilege and none of Congress' business....

    DOJ is not the president's lawyer, it's the legal arm of the gummint. Our gummint. Doing our business.

    I'd note, though, that during the Whitewater Starr Chamber proceedings, the Republicans thought that even the personal lawyers ought to be forced to break ACP.... IOKIYAR, though. 9/11 changed everything.

    Cheers,

    ReplyDelete
  129. Anonymous12:27 AM

    Enlightened Layperson said...
    To anonymous:

    The MSM did blow the whistle on Bush's "black sites" and extraordinary renditions. They exposed Abu Graib and Haditha. They informed us of Bush's warrantless surveillance and his "data mining" fishing operations. They went out of their way to publicize his low approval ratings. I do take all this as signs of an adversarial relationship, even if the MSM do sometimes allow the hysteria of the Right to intimidate them. But maybe you are right and I should have said, "even assuming for the sake of argument that the MSM hate Bush, they cannot ignore him."


    Duly noted. Jefferson's free press is an adversarial press. What you think this has to do with Bush personally I still don't understand. I doubt you ever will.

    ReplyDelete
  130. HWSNBN:

    So now you wish to punish lawyers for giving legal advice with which you disagree? That is why the executive privilege is in place.

    Who said anything about "punish[ing] lawyers"? Is Dubya going to fire the ones that dissented?

    Cheers,

    ReplyDelete
  131. Patterico:

    Greenwald started this by writing a post that unfairly implied that I had been hypocritical.

    Well, one look at your blog has disabused me of that notion. Now I think you're a stoopid ass. A pwn3d one, at that. Keep flopping. Makes it more sporting.

    Cheers,

    ReplyDelete
  132. Anonymous12:35 AM

    Wen Jiabao presides over the mass murder of thousands, if not millions of his own citizens in China. Yet, in order to finance tax cuts primarily designed for the wealthiest of our citizens (No...it's not 'your money'...it's your debt), and a war predicated on deceit and calculated misrepresentation that continues to this day, the policy of the United States is to borrow money heavily from this despotic regime.

    I don't doubt that Saddam Hussein was equally despotic, but when did he plot, plan and execute the mass murder of 3,000 people on American soil as Bin Laden so capably did without consequence?

    So, the question is...are we "defending" China's policy of murdering politcal dissidents and overall anihilation of human rights by receiving massive loans from them so we can continue to finance taxcuts for the rich and a war against "terrorism", which is really no more than a botched intervention that has escalated into a Civil War that was initially contrived as a feint to mask the overall impotence of the Administration in their hapless attempts to capture the real perpetrator of 9/11?

    Nonsensical as the premise that by saying that there was no operational link between al-Qaeda and Saddam, and that there were no WMD in Iraq is some sort of "defense" of Saddam.

    Think about it.

    ReplyDelete
  133. ej:

    But gentle readers, I implore thee all, let this be the last word, and engageth not his complex, craze etc.

    Amen.


    Oh, all right. Back to work. But it was fun. ;-)

    Cheers,

    ReplyDelete
  134. Anonymous12:43 AM

    Enlightened Layperson said...

    But, once again, this is not my primary point. My primary point is that if these documents Bart is talking about are legitimate, why is Bush so quiet about them.

    I do not know. What is even more interesting is why CIA literally sat on these documents without translating them for years. That will be an interesting chapter in some future history book.

    I suspect that Bush is protecting the sensitivities of the Russian, German and French who are named in these documents as having supplied Saddam with WMD expertise and even intelligence about our inspections and war intentions.

    However, we do know that these are captured Iraqi documents. No one, including the estimable Juan Cole who attempted a translation of one document, disagrees with this.

    The military has translated a large batch of these documents, which they have code named Harmony and posted at the West Point site.

    http://www.ctc.usma.edu/aq.asp

    The civilians have translated 4-5 dozen more documents and tapes.

    http://www.intelligencesummit.org/

    http://rayrobison.typepad.com/ray_robison/

    http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/
    keyword?k=prewardocs

    http://www.foxnews.com/column_archive/
    0,2976,146,00.html

    Many of these translators are serious military and intelligence professionals.

    No one has challenged the accuracy of a single translation, be it professional or amateur. No one.

    Indeed, the silence of the media and the leftist arabists invested in the "Bush lied" slander has been complete and pretty damning.

    Seriously, go read through these documents with a critical mind. Go pick apart anything you can. It will be difficult.

    ReplyDelete
  135. william timberman:

    Ah, bart, the real moniker. Or not? No relation to Brian, I suppose. (Yes, I know he uses a space, so what was I thinking?)

    Arne, HWSNBN must now be named, I think. Or not.


    He's "Bart" DePalma, a distinguished shyster who "served" as a "criminal prosecutor" (he says) by dint of being a student intern gopher for the Florida OSA, and who now pleads down DUI offences, as can be gleaned from his website (which I won't link to).

    But he's still "HWSNBN". As one wag said, "He Who Spouts Nothing But Nonsense". But my main reason for it is still that he's a freakin' troll, and he won't actually argue anything honestly. Such people are not participants in a conversation, and deserve no recognition in the course of such.

    Cheers,

    ReplyDelete
  136. Anonymous12:47 AM

    arne:

    Bart: 2) What DOJ stated internally to the President is protected by executive privilege and none of Congress' business....

    DOJ is not the president's lawyer, it's the legal arm of the gummint. Our gummint. Doing our business.


    When the President asks one of his subordinate attorneys to give him a legal opinion, the President is the client. If you don't like that the President doesn't want to share the advice he receives with you, go vote for someone else.

    ReplyDelete
  137. Arne Langsetmo: Makes it more sporting

    If only. After wiping my poniard and returning it to its sheath each night before prayers, I have a moment of despair.

    Can the price for underfunding education in the U.S. for the last 40 years really be as high as it seems? These folks have no history, no geography, and God knows, not even the rudiments of science. Is there anyone out there -- present company excluded, of course -- who can factor a quadratic equation, or tell us who the Rus were?

    Enough nuclear weapons to end all life on the planet, and they still fervently believe that on the seventh day He rested. It's as though Carl Sagan, let alone the sainted professor Einstein, never existed at all. How can you stand living here? (I mean, of course, when you're off work. Our business and applied science folk are still flying the flag, even though they're doing so less and less with native talent.)

    Wenn schon, denn schon. Works in German or Yiddish, but not in Murrican.

    ReplyDelete
  138. HWSNBN sez:

    This blog and others is filled with nonsense about how Saddam had no WMD and no connection with al Qaeda and the US had no basis for war.

    Yeah. But that was the true "nonsense", as pretty much everyone -- including Kay, Duelfer, Blix, El Baradei, the DIA, and even Dubya himself -- has stated.

    Cheers,

    ReplyDelete
  139. Anonymous12:50 AM

    The key factor isn't whether Bush denied clearence or Alberto denied clearence. The key factor is that clearence was denied for no reason other than to protect the lawless behavior of this administration.

    What the administration did was clearly wrong. The only added element here is additional evidence that the fish rots from its head.

    ReplyDelete
  140. Anonymous: Now Arne's starting to roll, William, and it's only Wednesday.

    Oh, 'tis true, 'tis true. It's like I've died and gone to heaven.

    ReplyDelete
  141. Anonymous12:58 AM

    JaO said...

    bart: 2) What DOJ stated internally to the President is protected by executive privilege and none of Congress' business. The President has given you his legal authority.

    bart is misdirecting us from the facts again. The OPR is an internal unit of the Justice Department. Nobody said any working papers would be made public or given to Congress. Yes, some in Congress had called for such an OPR investigation, but the decision to undertake it was made by the head of the office, who protested when the investigation was killed by Bush.


    The members of Congress who asked for this fishing expedition damn well wanted the results reported back to them. They weren't making the request just to give Justice something to do in private.

    bart: As I stated in far fewer words, you are investigating these lawyers for giving a legal opinion supporting a program which you consider to be illegal. I guess I did miss that "offense" in the ethical codes.

    DOJ lawyers advising the President on his affirmative duty to enforce the law faithfully have a different, more stringent ethical duty than that of a DUI defense lawyer. (That is why OPR stands for Office of Professional Responsibility.)


    LOL! I was under the impression that you were an attorney yourself. If that is the case, you might recall that we all have a professional code of ethics which your bar will be glad to enforce against you.

    You are free to provide us with the provision of any legal code of ethics which states that attorneys advising the President have the ethical duty to instruct "the President on his affirmative duty to enforce the law faithfully," nevertheless that this penumbral "ethical duty" is higher than those required of those who may practice criminal defense.

    The DOJ lawyering smells.

    ...and they should be punished for their thought crimes, right?

    ReplyDelete
  142. enlightened layperson:

    To anonymous:

    The MSM did blow the whistle on Bush's "black sites" and extraordinary renditions. They exposed Abu Graib and Haditha.


    Not quite. There's a few good journalists out there who keep turning in the pretty pennies, and Sy Hersh is one of them (Abu Ghraib). I think that Greg Palast is another (but not quite the pedigree of Hersh). Conason and Lyons did a great job in the 90's and are still at it today. But Hersh, Palast, and Conason are hardly "mainstream" and that's the "M" in "MSM". The blogosphere turned the Plame incident into a story. The "MSM" is pathetic, for the most part, the "talking heads" and "anchors" are terrible, and the invited pundits the worst of all. The closest thing you ever got to some actual honest coverage was Stephen Colbert's address to the White House Correspondents' dinner.

    Cheers,

    ReplyDelete
  143. enlightened layperson:

    But, once again, this is not my primary point. My primary point is that if these documents Bart is talking about are legitimate, why is Bush so quiet about them. Why isn't he trumpeting them.

    On this point, you are right. When even a cowed and aquiescent (or at the very least, supposedly competitive and scoop-thirsty) MSM is ignoring this crap -- not to mention the Dubya maladministration itself -- there's a reason. The reason is that it's crap.

    Having stated the obvious, I'll state one more obvious point: Explaining this to HWSNBN is like lecturing to a brick wall, not very productive, and certainly over-optimistic. Rather, point these things out for any other folks that may be passing by, and for that, I thank you.

    Cheers,

    ReplyDelete
  144. anonymous:

    It's a desperate and jarring panic that sets in when you realize you have painted yourself into a rhetorical corner and a gracious concession of defeat is no longer an option. That just leaves the inevitable and lingering humiliation of an unconditional surrender, or escape into delusion.

    That happened to Ben Dommenech too. Sad, 'tis. Really. Why so much pathos amongst the RW foamers? What did they do to deserve it? Did they really choose to be this way?

    Cheers,

    ReplyDelete
  145. HWSNBN is delusional:

    I do not know. What is even more interesting is why CIA literally sat on these documents without translating them for years. That will be an interesting chapter in some future history book.

    I'm sure the CIA looked at them and decided they're innocent, useless, or even crap. Kind of like what they decided about the "hard evidence" provided by "Curveball".

    But nothing beats hard facts on the ground, and there was nothing there, no matter how many documents, manufactured, forged, or otherwise, get trotted out.

    I suspect that Bush is protecting the sensitivities of the Russian, German and French who are named in these documents as having supplied Saddam with WMD expertise and even intelligence about our inspections and war intentions.

    HWSNBN thinks he can convince us that Dubya and company are into "protecting" the feelings of Russia and France (not only that, but that Dubya'd do it to his own personal disadvantage despite the "troot" being with Dubya) ... a demonstration of rank stoopidity that would also explain why HWSNBN buys this crapola in the first place.

    Cheers,

    ReplyDelete
  146. Hello,

    One thing that I thought was overlooked in the hearing yesterday was DiFi's grilling of Abu Gonzo on the issue of the "15 days"


    FEINSTEIN: Now, Congress did not leave the question opened. FISA explicitly says that warrantless surveillance can continue for only fifteen days after a declaration of war. Now that you’ve had an opportunity to examine Hamdan, is it still DOJ’s opinion that it does not affect the legality of the TSP?

    GONZALES: Of course, there’s been no declaration of war here, so we can’t take advantage of that particular provision. Uh, our judgment is…is that, um, it does not affect the legality, uh, of…of the, uh TSP program. But let me explain why…

    FEINSTEIN: Whoa. But if I might, just a (unintelligible). Then you’re saying, clearly, that the AUMF does not carry the full constitutional weight of a declaration of war.

    LONG PAINFUL PAUSE BY ABU

    GONZALES: Yes. That…that is correct. When you…when you declare war…well, when you declare war…


    You could tell by looking at Alberto that he was clearly shaken by this exchange. At the end, he looked incredibly nervous, and this exchange ensued:


    GONZALES: Senator, I beg your pardon. I’m…I’m gonna go back and look at the transcript of your question. And I’m…I’m…I…I…I probably want…want to modify it. I want to make sure that I’m being as accurate as I can about…about what we’re doing, because there may be some things here that may affect my…my response.

    FEINSTEIN: I…I would appreciate that because, the way I view it, a very conscious…(unintelligible) effort has been made not to submit…certainly content collection to the FISA court.

    GONZALES: Senator, this is something that you and I should have a…a conversation about.


    This is where I need some help from the constitutional lawyers.

    It seems that Gonzo KNEW that he had spilled the beans on one of the constant points brought up by Bush apologist. Namely, HE CAN'T CLAIM ARTICLE II POWERS!!!

    And he knows it.

    We need to hammer this one. Fienstien's question was a good one. If the argument for Article II powers may or may not apply vis-a-vis FISA, then SURELY something like AUMF "does not carry the full constitutional weight of a declaration of war." especially in the wake of the Hamden decision.

    Gonzo knows it, which is why he wants to "clarify his remarks" and "have a conversation" with DiFi.

    Sorry if this is a repeat question, I have been trying to catch up on Glenn's blog after missing a couple of weeks.

    ReplyDelete
  147. From the Guardian:

    Isaac Deutscher, speaking of Israel, and referring to a Prussian Sprichwort. (proverb)

    Mann kann sich totsiegen

    (One can triumph oneself to death)

    My country, tis of thee....

    This brings to mind also something from Bob Dylan:

    I pity the poor immigrant, when his gladness comes to pass. (Hint, he wasn't referring to Mexicans.)

    ReplyDelete
  148. Anonymous2:38 AM

    Bart... I suspect that Bush is protecting the sensitivities of the Russian, German and French who are named in these documents as having supplied Saddam with WMD expertise and even intelligence about our inspections and war intentions.

    That's hilarious. The only thing the Bush abministration is protecting is it's own ass.

    ReplyDelete
  149. Anonymous2:44 AM

    Bart... The military has translated a large batch of these documents, which they have code named Harmony and posted at the West Point site.

    http://www.ctc.usma.edu/aq.asp


    NB: The views expressed in this report are those of the authors and not of the U.S. Military Academy, the Department of the Army, or any other agency of the U.S. Government.

    ReplyDelete
  150. Anonymous2:51 AM

    With the single notable exception of this source...

    http://www.intelligencesummit.org/

    I wouldn't demean the term "credible" by applying it to any of these "sources".

    http://rayrobison.typepad.com/ray_robison/

    http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/
    keyword?k=prewardocs

    http://www.foxnews.com/column_archive/
    0,2976,146,00.html

    ReplyDelete
  151. The esteemed Constitutional scholar HWSNBN hasn't read U.S. v. Nixon:

    "However, when the privilege depends solely on the broad, undifferentiated claim of public interest in the confidentiality of such conversations, a confrontation with other values arises. Absent a claim of need to protect military, diplomatic, or sensitive national security secrets, we find it difficult to accept the argument that even the very important interest in confidentiality of Presidential communications is significantly diminished by production of such material for in camera inspection with all the protection that a district court will be obliged to provide. [418 U.S. 683, 707]

    The impediment that an absolute, unqualified privilege would place in the way of the primary constitutional duty of the Judicial Branch to do justice in criminal prosecutions would plainly conflict with the function of the courts under Art. III. In designing the structure of our Government and dividing and allocating the sovereign power among three co-equal branches, the Framers of the Constitution sought to provide a comprehensive system, but the separate powers were not intended to operate with absolute independence.

    "While the Constitution diffuses power the better to secure liberty, it also contemplates that practice will integrate the dispersed powers into a workable government. It enjoins upon its branches separateness but interdependence, autonomy but reciprocity." Youngstown Sheet & Tube Co. v. Sawyer, 343 U.S., at 635 (Jackson, J., concurring). To read the Art. II powers of the President as providing an absolute privilege as against a subpoena essential to enforcement of criminal statutes on no more than a generalized claim of the public interest in confidentiality of nonmilitary and nondiplomatic discussions would upset the constitutional balance of "a workable government" and gravely impair the role of the courts under Art. III.

    In this case, it's OPR lawyers from the executive branch doing their thing (as was pointed out by "jao"), just checking on stuff. If it's on request of Congress, hardly a problem. Congress has a role to play in our gummint, and no bare claim of "executive privilege" can surmount that claim. See above.

    [HWSNBN]: 2) What DOJ stated internally to the President is protected by executive privilege and none of Congress' business....

    Nonsense. When they're discussing gummint policy and the state of the law, it is most decidedly the bizness of Congress to find out what it is that they said.

    [Arne]: DOJ is not the president's lawyer, it's the legal arm of the gummint. Our gummint. Doing our business.

    When the President asks one of his subordinate attorneys to give him a legal opinion, the President is the client....

    Well, if it's his personal lawyer, yes. But the DOJ is not the preznit's "personal lawyer". I'd note (once again for the brain damaged aroung here) that the Republicans made it a point in the 90's that even Clinton's White House Counsel was not his personal lawyer (despite having been so before), and should be subject to questioning about any conversations.

    If you don't like that the President doesn't want to share the advice he receives with you, go vote for someone else.

    When I'm paying for the opinion, I think I ought to be able to read it; "secret" opinions give me the heebie-jeebies. I can't fathom why HWSNBN has a problem with this.

    Cheers,

    ReplyDelete
  152. Anonymous3:07 AM

    You should all take a lesson from Bart. It's time to start vociferously defending and rehabilitating me. myself and my theories are far worthier candidates for an aggresive defense and rehabilitation than any of Bart's current clients.

    ReplyDelete
  153. william timberman:

    How can you stand living here? (I mean, of course, when you're off work. Our business and applied science folk are still flying the flag, even though they're doing so less and less with native talent.)

    I work for a Canadian company. ;-)

    As for living here: I still have high hopes for the U.S. I went to law school believing that we had a Bill of Rights and thought highly of it. I think that most people, if things are explained to them reasonably, will reach a fair conclusion (although we're far from alone in that). And I'm an optimist at heart, despite the likes of Shooter242, HWSNBN, and "The Dog", "notherbob2" (and most recently, Patterico) here. They are the minority, as is becomeing more clear every day. The old tricks aren't working. And they're starting to feel just the slightest tingle of trouble brewing (and it occasions this kind of stuff you see here ... as Glenn so astutely points out).

    So for now, I'm here. But I'm keeping my passport. May be worth far more than my 401K in the not-so-distant future....

    Cheers,

    ReplyDelete
  154. William Timberman and anonymous said:

    [Anonymous]: Now Arne's starting to roll, William, and it's only Wednesday.

    [William]: Oh, 'tis true, 'tis true. It's like I've died and gone to heaven.


    Careful now. No encouragement needed (I'd do it as a public service). If you don't watch it, Patterico and his troops will start dogging me like they do Glenn. I had a hard enough time getting the nutzo Gordon to go nip at other people's heels awhile back.

    Cheers,

    ReplyDelete
  155. Anonymous3:30 AM

    Arne... He's "Bart" DePalma, a distinguished shyster who "served" as a "criminal prosecutor" (he says) by dint of being a student intern gopher for the Florida OSA, and who now pleads down DUI offences, as can be gleaned from his website (which I won't link to).

    I won't link to it either, William, but if you googled around I'm sure you'd find it and could see for yourself that Bart does indeed have the unmistakable grin of a satisfied coprophiliac.

    ReplyDelete
  156. Anonymous3:33 AM

    Coming from a raging, trouser trout trolling perv no wonder this Glen drivel is illogical at best...

    ReplyDelete
  157. Anonymous3:36 AM

    Shouldn't you supposed best seller (just how stupid did one need to be to buy into that crap?) actually be titled, "The Ravings of an ex-patriot"?

    ReplyDelete
  158. HWSNBN is really out in the ozone:

    You are free to provide us with the provision of any legal code of ethics which states that attorneys advising the President have the ethical duty to instruct "the President on his affirmative duty to enforce the law faithfully," nevertheless that this penumbral "ethical duty" is higher than those required of those who may practice criminal defense.

    They're not his freakin' defence lawyers, they're the United States Department of Justice! They're supposed to work for the gummint, and in that they ought to do their job properly -- and I'm not sure which planet HWSNBN is from, but here, that job is not to kiss the preznit's ass; it's to give him some quality legal advice (something that Dubya, the UT Law School reject is rather short on personally).....

    FWIW, ignoring the fact that Dubya isn't the DOJ's clint, I think that HWSNBN missed the part that says you are to represet your client "zealously".

    See here:

    [2] As a representative of clients, a lawyer performs various functions. As advisor, a lawyer provides a client with an informed understanding of the client's legal rights and obligations and explains their practical implications. As advocate, a lawyer zealously asserts the client's position under the rules of the adversary system. As negotiator, a lawyer seeks a result advantageous to the client but consistent with requirements of honest dealings with others. As an evaluator, a lawyer acts by examining a client's legal affairs and reporting about them to the client or to others.

    [3] In addition to these representational functions, a lawyer may serve as a third-party neutral, a nonrepresentational role helping the parties to resolve a dispute or other matter. Some of these Rules apply directly to lawyers who are or have served as third-party neutrals. See, e.g., Rules 1.12 and 2.4. In addition, there are Rules that apply to lawyers who are not active in the practice of law or to practicing lawyers even when they are acting in a nonprofessional capacity. For example, a lawyer who commits fraud in the conduct of a business is subject to discipline for engaging in conduct involving dishonesty, fraud, deceit or misrepresentation. See Rule 8.4.

    [4] In all professional functions a lawyer should be competent, prompt and diligent. A lawyer should maintain communication with a client concerning the representation. A lawyer should keep in confidence information relating to representation of a client except so far as disclosure is required or permitted by the Rules of Professional Conduct or other law.

    [5] A lawyer's conduct should conform to the requirements of the law, both in professional service to clients and in the lawyer's business and personal affairs. A lawyer should use the law's procedures only for legitimate purposes and not to harass or intimidate others. A lawyer should demonstrate respect for the legal system and for those who serve it, including judges, other lawyers and public officials. While it is a lawyer's duty, when necessary, to challenge the rectitude of official action, it is also a lawyer's duty to uphold legal process.

    Hope that helps explain a few things about "professional responsibility" (something that seems to be not of HWSNBN's acquaintance here, as he repeatedly miscites law, manufactures "opinions", and just lies about matters of fact).

    See the rest at the link above. Check out Rule 8.4(c). If you live in Colorado, it's your call as to what to do.

    Cheers,

    ReplyDelete
  159. Anonymous3:42 AM

    WRT Hillary Clinton, who was mentioned upthread... I think she is triangulating for a run in 2008, that's obvious. One benefit of her presidency, should she get the nomination and be elected, (and as I have said, she polls better than any other candidate to date, across the board), will be sensible national health care reform. You can count on it. It will save money and cut the deficit in the long and short run. I fully expect Dems to control both houses by 2010, if not 2008. She may have two terms to pull it off in any case. I don't think this is likely but it would be nice; Bart and Patterico and there ilk moving to another country. There will still be a few trees even after Bush leaves office, lot's of rope, still a few psuedo-conservatives but just not enough time for all the assembly required.

    ReplyDelete
  160. anonymous said:

    Shouldn't you supposed best seller (just how stupid did one need to be to ...

    ... start a flame with a spelling misteak.

    Cheers,

    ReplyDelete
  161. Anonymous3:51 AM

    Mention coprophila and....


    Anonymous said...
    Coming from a raging, trouser trout trolling perv no wonder this Glen drivel is illogical at best...

    3:33 AM


    Anonymous said...
    Shouldn't you supposed best seller (just how stupid did one need to be to buy into that crap?) actually be titled, "The Ravings of an ex-patriot"?

    3:36 AM


    I didn't mention glossolalia but there you have it, coprophiliacs speaking in tongues...

    ReplyDelete
  162. anonymous says:

    She may have two terms to pull it off in any case. I don't think this is likely but it would be nice; Bart and Patterico and there ilk moving to another country. There will still be a few trees even after Bush leaves office, lot's of rope, still a few psuedo-conservatives but just not enough time for all the assembly required.

    Let 'em hang themselves. A cleaner and more humane kill; they're much more practised at it.

    Cheers,

    ReplyDelete
  163. Anonymous3:55 AM

    Glenn's next book will be another battery of patriotic missives!

    That's enough fun with trolls for me.

    ReplyDelete
  164. Anonymous3:55 AM

    I think that most people, if things are explained to them reasonably, will reach a fair conclusion

    I can't even comment.

    And I'm an optimist.

    Yes.(see: above statement)

    PS. Having totally revised my view of human nature again today (it's a shifting perspective but I'm pretty sure today was the final shift) all I can say is: there are no words.

    And if I were Glenn I would already have starting truly despising humanity. I don't know how he keeps from doing that. I don't even think he should keep from doing that. The level of utter viciousness that has been directed at him is something I wouldn't have even known existed before I started reading blogs. It must have been out there all the time. I was obviously just too stupid to see it.

    ReplyDelete
  165. Glenn:

    On "various items" we have this:

    "We should not and cannot rewrite history to ignore our spiritual heritage," said Rep. Zach Wamp (news, bio, voting record), R-Tenn. "It surrounds us. It cries out for our country to honor God."

    This on a bill to protect the "under God" in the Pledge from challenge in court. I'd note that lawyers for the gummint in the Elk Grove case were busy explaining how the phrase was only ceremonial, and didn't really mean what it said. Well, now we have the entire Republican House in a tizzy because removal would be the greatest calamity since ... well, gay marriages and flag burning ... and thus the need for extraordinary measures to make sure that no court can ever decide whether it actually comports with our Constitution. Sounds to me like they've abandoned the "it's just a meaningless, throw-away phrase" defence. What's left?

    Cheers,

    ReplyDelete
  166. Anonymous4:10 AM

    Arne...Let 'em hang themselves. A cleaner and more humane kill; they're much more practised at it.

    Cheers,


    Of course, and I wouldn't dirty my hands with them anyway but they should get used to it. I think they are going to be the butt of jokes for years to come and none of these jokes will be too kind. They should get a taste of their own poison, and will.

    As to hanging, they've already climbed the scaffold and put their collective heads in the noose. The trap door is about to open and gravity will take over.

    Corruption Issue Comes to Fore
    Reed Is Seen as First Casualty, and Parties Brace for More

    While political corruption has failed so far to take root as a national issue, the defeat of scandal-stained Ralph Reed in Georgia on Tuesday showed that federal investigators could tip some key House and Senate races this fall, according to party strategists.

    Reed, a former top campaign official for President Bush and executive director of the Christian Coalition, lost the Republican primary for lieutenant governor after getting pounded by his opponent for his close and profitable relationship with convicted lobbyist Jack Abramoff, the central figure in an unfolding money-for-favors scandal. Reed was the first electoral victim of political corruption probes -- but officials in both parties said he probably won't be the last.

    Republicans worry that more than six candidates for the House and Senate could be hurt by Justice Department investigations, the courts and revelations in the Abramoff affair. Topping the list are Rep. Robert W. Ney (R-Ohio) and Sen. Conrad Burns (R-Mont.), both bruised by Abramoff connections and facing tough races.

    Anticipating more bad news, House GOP leaders are privately discussing a pre-election plan to compromise with the Senate on legislation clamping down on lobbyists and member perks, according to a GOP source familiar with the effort. The source, who discussed the plan on the condition of anonymity, said that if Ney or other Republicans are indicted, House leaders will drop their demands to include strict curbs on the special-interest election spending that favored Democrats in 2004 and quickly pass the lobbying bill to provide political cover to candidates.

    ReplyDelete
  167. Anonymous4:10 AM

    BTW, I have already admitted I recognize how stupid I am. Could someone please tell me, therefore, if this is true? I have no ability to figure that out for myself. I wouldn't even know how to begin to determine if this is neo-con propaganda or reality. For all I know you sign the petition and your name goes on a David Horowitz fundraising list.

    Save Malak Ghorbany from Death by Public Stoning

    If the legitimate posters on this blog tell me this is true and those things are really still happening, then I am changing my anti-war stance immediately to a pro-nuke stance. The only thing that would make this a better world would be for one big nuclear bomb to be dropped on the entire planet and put an end to all this insanity once and for all.

    ReplyDelete
  168. Anonymous4:21 AM

    Save Malak Ghorbany from Death by Public Stoning

    As awful as that is, it's a legitimate court in a theocracy and that's law in a theocracy. Sign the petition and David Horowitz be damned. Then look into similar abuses in a non-theocratic democracy like India, where family members and husbands set women on fire and the courts turn a blind eye.

    Kerosene, Weapon of Choice for Attacks on Wives in India

    ReplyDelete
  169. Anonymous4:29 AM

    Better yet, get and keep these lunatics out of our government or you will have that here.

    VIDEO: House Conservatives Reveal What God Thinks About Gay Marriage Amendment »
    The constitutional ban on gay marriage was defeated yesterday in the House. During the debate, several right-wing congressmen revealed what God thinks about the gay marriage amendment:

    Rep. John Carter (R-TX): “It’s part of God’s plan for the future of mankind.”

    Rep. Mike Pence (R-IN): “It wasn’t our idea, it was God’s.”

    Rep. Bob Beauprez (R-CO): “We best not be messing with His plan.”

    Rep. Phil Gingrey (R-GA): “I think God has spoken very clearly on this issue.”

    Watch the video compilation:


    A Christian Theocrat wants guidance...


    1. Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not to Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

    2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

    3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev. 15:19-24). The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

    4. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev. 1:9). The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

    5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states that he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself, or should I ask the police to do it?

    6. A friend of mine feels that, even though eating shellfish is an abomination (Lev. 11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this? Are there "degrees" of abomination?

    7. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle-room here?

    8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?

    9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

    10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them (Lev. 24:10-16)? Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair, like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws (Lev. 20:14)?

    ReplyDelete
  170. Anonymous5:23 AM

    Re: "Letting them hang themselves" Arne... people like Bart and Patterico make a left wing Straussian philosophy seem awfully appealing and downright sensible.

    The Myth of Left-Wing Harvard

    It is true enough that the Harvard faculty is "liberal" in exactly the way The New York Times is "liberal," as its Public Editor recently informed us: namely, on a range of social issues, it ranges towards the more tolerant and libertarian, and away from the fearful, moralizing, and authoritarian.

    Put aside this pleasant, tolerant "liberalism"--whose only real opposition comes from the Taliban, foreign and homegrown--and the suggestion that Harvard is a "left-wing" institution is laughable.

    *Who is the most recent "star" appointment to the Harvard faculty to garner national media attention? Historian Niail "the U.S. really ought to kill more aggressively in Iraq" Ferguson. What was Harvard Government's main recruiting effort last year? To land conservative political theorist Thomas Pangle from the University of Toronto, heir to the Straussian throne (as it happens, he landed in Austin instead). A reporter from the Chronicle of Higher Ed called me recently for some background information on an impending announcement by Harvard Law School touting the hiring of two conservative legal scholars.

    *Recently in the New York Times spotlight from Harvard is the apologist for torture and the Nazi doctrine of preventive war Michael Ignatieff--by the way, he directs a Center for Human Rights Policy at left-wing Harvard--who is so far to the right that even the rather conservative Ronald Steel justifiably concluded a recent review of Mr. Ignatieff's book as follows: "In concocting a formula for a little evil lite to combat the true evildoers, Michael Ignatieff has not provided, as his subtitle states, a code of 'political ethics in an age of terror' but rather an elegantly packaged manual of national self-justification." But that, of course, is a longstanding Harvard tradition, going back to all the bright Harvard boys who ran the invasion and subsequent slaughter in Vietnam during the Kennedy and Johnson Administrations, and continuing right to the present with Samuel Huntington, political "scientist," whose blood-soaked career of apologetics for imperialist violence (and, more recently, dire warnings about the Hispanic threat to America's way of life) led the National Academy of Sciences to balk at electing him to membership, usually a birthright for Harvard faculty. (It appears the real scientists noticed the difference between an empirical discipline and right-wing Lysenkoism.)

    *The leftist economists from Harvard were purged more than a generation ago, and had to migrate to U Mass/Amherst, where they can no longer expect New York Times reporters to call them on a regular basis for their "expertise." ("Harvard," like "Yale" and "Princeton," and, to a lesser extent, "University of Chicago" and "Columbia," is an imprimatur of legitimacy in the New York Times, quite independent of whether the scholar in question is regarded by experts as a two-bit ass-kisser who belongs in the annals of legendary tenure mistakes, or is actually someone with a brain in his head.) Now the Harvard Economics Department supplies the Bush Administration with its chief apologist for its screwball economic policies, Gregory Mankiw, just as it supplied the Reagan Administration with its (Martin Feldstein).

    *Harvard Law School has been home since the 1970s to the infantile, anti-Marxist leftism of the Critical Legal Studies movement (the folks who brought us the powerful political program, "Don't laugh at jokes by the Cravath partners") and, more recently, that quintessentially bourgeois political event, identity politics. Neither have amounted to anything beyond the legal academy, and even there, the first is moribund, the second marginalized. Far more influential have been HLS faculty member, Mary Ann Glendon, leading spokeswoman for social conservativism in the Catholic tradition; that stalwart apologist for Republican legal mischief, Charles Fried; and, of course, the "Professor of Torture," Alan Dershowitz (who also runs a side career as an extreme Zionist who might even make Ariel Sharon blush).

    Many of the major figures in the largely right-wing law-and-economics movement are also based at Harvard Law School. Indeed, the "major" scholarly opus to emerge from HLS of late, Kaplow and Shavell's, Fairness versus Welfare (published, of course, by Harvard University Press), "argues" (this is only a very slight simplification) that fairness should never be a factor in social policy because sometimes doing what is fair would not be pareto optimal. (It will be a topic of future research by sociologists of economics to figure out how it is folks with high IQs could even think this is an argument.)

    It would be wonderful, to be sure, if the nation's most prestigious institution of higher education were a real repository of critical thought. There are, to be sure, some genuine intellectuals of the left pursuing their work at Harvard, but the point is they are few and far between. Only in the reactionary public culture of the United States could one think that the dominance at Harvard of pleasant, tolerant liberalism, noted at the start, could mark Harvard as a "left-wing" institution. Alas, in no nation in the history of the world has it ever been the case that the centers of academic power were generally hospitable (except in isolated corners) to intellectual currents at odds with the needs of the real centers of political and economic power in that society. Harvard, in that respect, is no different, the myth of its leftism notwithstanding.

    ReplyDelete
  171. Anonymous6:19 AM

    Seems like Glenn Greenwald has a few sockpuppets of his own:

    Devoted Fans of Glenn Greenwald Emphasize the Same Points About His Resume — From the Same IP Address!!

    http://www.patterico.com/

    ReplyDelete
  172. Anonymous6:47 AM

    Oh, daaaaamn! You just got caught using sock puppets! How are you going to explain that away? Good luck, douche.

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  173. Anonymous7:41 AM

    Oh what a thing to have happened!

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  174. Anonymous9:16 AM

    Glenn..

    How many sock puppets do you have?

    ..other than Ellison, I mean

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  175. Anonymous9:19 AM

    From anonymous at 10:16pm:

    In January 1994

    That's it? A single incident over 12 years ago?

    And as for Galloway, we're talking about a career mugwump and iconoclast who is so far to the left he's practically spinning in place.

    How about someone with genuine creditability?

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  176. Anonymous9:21 AM

    Ellison, Ellison, Ellison,

    whatever have you gotten yourself into.

    I particularily enjoy when self-described brilliant men show us they are precisely the opposite of what they claim to be.

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  177. Anonymous9:22 AM

    From Bart at 11:19pm:

    This blog and others is filled with nonsense about how Saddam had no WMD and no connection with al Qaeda and the US had no basis for war.

    These are defenses of Saddam.

    No, these are statements disputing the rationale/excuse offered for the 2003 invasion of Iraq. No-one was defending either Hussein himself, his record, nor the continued activities of his regime.

    Plain enough?

    Only if your point was to prove what a bloody idiot you are.

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  178. Anonymous9:35 AM

    What's that saying about a lawyer's reputation: it takes years to build but can be destroyed in an instant.

    I'd say it was pretty instantainious in this case, wouldn't you.

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  179. Anonymous10:09 AM

    Oh, dear. Brazilian sock-puppets. What will they think of next?

    ReplyDelete
  180. They're back, I see. And since trolls weren't making much headway, they've apparently decided to send in the orcs this time.

    Biff, (or bam or sock or pow, or whatever other butch handle you prefer) civilized people aren't much impressed by character assassination, or drive-by nyah, nyahing either.

    Serious matters are at issue here, and real people are discussing them. They have private lives of some complexity, which should be of no interest to anyone in attending to their arguments. I have personal habits which would be offensive to some, but I'm an honest advocate, and I mean neither you nor any other person harm.

    Bugger off.

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  181. Anonymous10:28 AM

    Sock Puppet

    Sockpuppet (sometimes known also as a mule, or a glove puppet) is an additional account created by an existing member of an Internet community. This account allows them to pose as a completely different user, sometimes to manufacture the illusion of support in a vote or argument. Other reasons include a desire to support or vote on an issue coupled with a desire to have one's "main" account stay away from the issue. This behaviour is sometimes seen as being dishonest by online communities and as a result these individuals are often labeled as trolls. This is often done on sites like eBay in order to bid on one's own auctions, although eBay forbids the practice. Although the "sock puppet" concept has been applied to the use of different sender names for the same e-mail account on different computers the use of such alternate IDs to identify a particular computer may not always be for the purpose of deception...

    While many examples abound, most are of nonpublic figures. Notable exceptions in recent years include:

    L.A. Times Columnist Michael Hiltzik, who was forced to give up his column and Times blog in April 2006 when it was revealed that he was anonymously posting under the "sock puppet" name of "Mikekoshi", and possibly "Nofanofcablecos", to attack those critical of his writings. He did this both on the blogs of his critics, and even on his own blog in response to hostile commenters.


    NB:Glenn has done neither of those things if it were to be proven that he posted those comments

    John Lott, author of More Guns, Less Crime, who, between 2000 and 2003, posted under the "sock puppet" name of "Mary Rosh", praising Lott's teaching, and arguing with Lott's critics on Usenet. The name was also used to post outstanding reviews of his books, and panning books of rivals on online book sites. Lott admitted he had frequently used the name "Mary Rosh" to defend himself, but claimed the book reviews by "Mary Rosh" were written by his son and wife.

    You are reaching, and making a spectacle of yourselves in the process.

    This is about as compelling and convincing, even if true, (and if it were to be true, hardly anything for Frey to trumpet about like an adolescent boy with a toad in his pocket) than the Frisch mini-kerfuffle or Gavin's noose for conservatives. As Arne pointed out, the rope and trees are already there. You poor miscreants (and I refuse to cast this as a left/right dispute, it just plainly isn't) are doing all the dissembling and assembling required to hang yourselves. Would this be news if this person (we have no idea who this person is or if these IPs are in fact identical) had posted under anonymous rather than a pseudonym, if that in fact is what happened. It hardly rises to the level of Mary Rosh. Lott's book was pure bullshit. Glenn's book, OTOH... sounds like sour grapes to me.

    As has been observed, Patterico just doesn't have a best seller in him. It's not his raisone d'être or his idée fixe.

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  182. Anonymous10:29 AM

    JaO said...

    bart, So is it your contention that the Office of Professional Responsibility should be disbanded, because DOJ lawyers have no professional responsibilities beyond those of the general bar?

    The DOJ Office of Professional Responsibility does not need to be disbanded just because Congress is misusing it in this case. That is an absurd argument.

    If not, what justification is there for the President's unprecedented intercession to quash this particular investigation?

    Congress is acting extra constitutionally and it is none of their business what advice the President solicited from his executive branch attorneys.

    The head of the office believed there was sufficient reason to investigate this matter, but the Oval Office intervened.

    What sufficient reason? There is not a single scrap of evidence that anyone acted unethically.

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  183. Anonymous10:37 AM

    dipshit said...
    Glenn..

    How many sock puppets do you have?

    ..other than Ellison, I mean



    Good question. And even if your claims were credible, you'd know that number precisely, and they'd still amount to naught. It is a matter of common knowledge that Glenn is a n00b (newbie) to this milieu. NAT, proxies and IP spoofing are not his area of expertise. He is not a Professional IT (internet troll) person like you.

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  184. Anonymous10:41 AM

    Arne Langsetmo said...

    Bart: You are free to provide us with the provision of any legal code of ethics which states that attorneys advising the President have the ethical duty to instruct "the President on his affirmative duty to enforce the law faithfully," nevertheless that this penumbral "ethical duty" is higher than those required of those who may practice criminal defense.

    They're not his freakin' defence lawyers, they're the United States Department of Justice! They're supposed to work for the gummint, and in that they ought to do their job properly -- and I'm not sure which planet HWSNBN is from, but here, that job is not to kiss the preznit's ass; it's to give him some quality legal advice (something that Dubya, the UT Law School reject is rather short on personally).....


    Is there a point in that raving that at all applies to my post concerning the contents of the ethical codes?

    No one claimed that DOJ was acting as Mr, Bush's criminal defense attorneys. Exactly what law do you allegedly practice? Lawyers of all types (not just criminal defense counsel) give legal advice to their clients. Does your firm keep you in a hole and away from the clients and the light of day?

    FWIW, ignoring the fact that Dubya isn't the DOJ's clint, I think that HWSNBN missed the part that says you are to represet your client "zealously". See here...

    Huh?

    Dude, jao claimed that that attorneys advising the President have the ethical duty to instruct "the President on his affirmative duty to enforce the law faithfully" and that this alleged duty was higher than all others.

    Why the hell are you going on about the duty to defend your client zealously?

    The better question might be: Why am I wasting my time replying to you again?

    ReplyDelete
  185. Anonymous10:41 AM

    Bart @ 10:29 AM

    The Merry-Go-Round is open for business. Anyone want to ride?

    "See, the irony is what they need to do is get Syria to get Hezbollah to stop doing this shit, and it's over," he said, apparently referring to the guerilla force's firing of rockets into Israel. "I felt like telling Kofi to get on the phone with [Syrian leader Bashir] Assad and make something happen."

    While it is refreshing to note that our president employs language that would earn a radio shock jock a fine from his own rabid obscenity-sniffers at the FCC, his profound ignorance is appalling. Israel, Hamas and Hezbollah all have their own hardcore agendas - Syria is just one player in the tortured region. Furthermore, Bush's complete disinterest in the Mideast peace process - especially as an "honest broker" between Israel and the Palestinians - since the Supreme Court handed him the job in 2000 has paved the way for this moment.

    But should we be surprised at Bush's poor grasp of the world he supposedly leads? After all, the blundering of the Bush administration has seriously undermined secular politics in the Mideast and boosted the religious zealots of groups like Hezbollah to positions of preeminence throughout the region, from savagely violent Iraq to the beleaguered West Bank and Gaza.

    But what is truly "ironic" is that the Bush administration, having overstretched our militarily and generated no foreign policy ideas beyond the willy-nilly "projection" of military force, has become a helpless bystander as the entire region threatens to burn.

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  186. Anonymous10:51 AM

    Biff... I'd say it was pretty instantainious in this case, wouldn't you.

    Your reputation had no shelf life at all. We aren't even clear whose lawyering you were bashing.

    Anyone else remember Hal Lindsey?

    Right up their with other wingnut classics like The Turner Diaries and the Left Behind series. The Late, Great United States of America, but it's no longer fiction.

    The Late, Great Planet Earth

    The Late, Great Planet Earth is the primary example of pre-millennialist, dispensationalist Christian Zionist literature by prolific author Hal Lindsey (here assisted by co-author C.C. Carlson). It was published by Zondervan in 1970, and the book became the top-selling US title of the decade, selling over 15 million copies.

    Lindsey interpreted the Cold War in the context of Biblical scripture, stating that the events of history, specifically the Cold War, fulfilled Biblical prophecy. For example, he pointed to the restoration of Israel as a state in 1948 as the literal restoration of Israel prophesied in the Bible. The central theme of Lindsey's work was his belief that Russia was to be Gog, the invader of the North prophesied by Ezekiel. Some of the word etymologies Lindsey presented to demonstrate these connections were taken from British Biblical literalists of the nineteenth century.

    Lindsey wrote that current events point to a near future Tribulation which will include the biblical plagues, wars, and famines. Jesus will rapture true believers to himself at the beginning of a 7-year Tribulation, following which he will return to establish his 1000 year millennial Kingdom on earth. The book pointed to the 1990s as the probable time of fulfillment of the prophecies. The book is also notable for its breezy style and punning jokes: "Russia is a Gog" and "Sheik to Sheik" provide two chapter titles.

    A film of the book was made in 1979; Orson Welles provided the narration.

    Lindsey has gone on to write many sequels, including Satan is Alive and Well on Planet Earth and The 1980s: Countdown to Armageddon. The latter title is now out of print.

    ReplyDelete
  187. Anonymous10:58 AM

    So...Glenn...gone around to other blogs singing your own praises under assumed names much lately?

    ReplyDelete
  188. Anonymous11:04 AM

    It should probably be mentioned that Lindsey, far from being credible, has long been revealed to be a hack writer and his 'interpretation' of Biblical scripture discredited.

    In fact, when examined in context, Lindsey was simply cashing in on revived Cold War paranoia, worries over the Six-Day War and the Yom Kippur War, the Iranian revolution, the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, and the general anxiety of nuclear war so prevalent in the 1970s and 1980s. Reagan's election a year later didn't help matters.

    Today, the three-time divorcee has left Trinity Broadcasting Network to pursue other 'televised ministries', even as he maintains hallindseyoracle.com and faces ethical questions over his promotion of Zion Oil in 2004.

    Hopefully we won't see any more of his 'predictions' in print before the turn of the next millennium.

    ReplyDelete
  189. Anonymous11:07 AM

    A word about sock puppets and trolls... In law enforcement a decoy posing as drunk to incite an opportunistic thief is one thing. It can cross the line into entrapment in other UC operations and stings. The FBI has a history of using agent provateurs that have incited violent crimes and testified falsely in court proceedings against inoocen persons. Not all trolling is bad or unwelcome in any context. Just MHO.

    Troll culture
    The long history of trolling, and the strong support for anonymous and pseudonymous discourse on the Internet, suggests that the story of the "anonymous troll" is only beginning, and will continue developing in subtlety and sophistication. Whether there can be a "culture" consisting of people who do not know each other, except through a common experience of being bounced from Internet forums, is questionable, but some do claim it is possible and already occurring.

    There is strong evidence for this in the existence of forums that claim to exist specifically to support trolls and trolling, to exchange troll tips, and to identify targets that other trolls might fruitfully bait or debate.

    Trolling culture is best observed in trolls, who do not know each other, working together. Because the common methods of creating inflammatory posts are well known, and a subject of jokes in many places on the Internet, it is sometimes possible for a troll to identify another troll in action. A troll, trolling another troll, often creates massive amounts of pretend drama between them that is taken seriously by non-troll observers (especially if they take sides). The end result is that the two trolls can work together to force a conversation to go off topic, or center a forum's discussion around themselves, more effectively than on their own.

    [edit]
    Trolling as identity deception
    A common tactic that many trolls resort to is the strategy of using multiple usernames or pseudonyms that are ready to use just in case a debate or argument emerges. By using multiple usernames (called "sock puppets" in this context) and a variety of artificial personalities the troll would have the ability to protect his or her image in a community. A troll would then also be able to increase his or her influence in an entire online community by simply using those other self serving nicks to increase the attention towards his or her most favored account. However, many users with more than one computer such as hardware buffs (Colloquial), computer repair shops and thrift stores often give each computer a unique name and use that name as the e-mail or newsgroup account username to identify the computer being used versus the user. Contrary to the purpose of deception this practice is followed with the intent of creating a verification record for the computer that was repaired or tested rather than to promote malice, ill will or evil intent. Sometimes the email reply address or other changeable header line is used for this purpose rather than the username line.

    Online game communities that take tournament statistics and player rankings seriously are especially vulnerable to this type of trolling behavior. This is mainly due to the fact that since players take their rankings seriously, that some would resort to solidifying their reputations by creating self made threads designed to praise his or her favored account. Threads such as "most favorite players", "name your top ten players", etc. are suspected to be highly manipulated self-made threads designed to increase the influence and reputation of a specific username.

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  190. From a couple of threads back, because it's worth a peek:

    ... and Tom Tomorrow weighs in on young Terra-ists and takes a trip down Memory Lane with Bill Kristol here. It's like deja vu all over again; what's a poor satirist to do?

    Cheers,

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  191. Would it be germane to point out that a clever asshole is still an asshole?

    Even if you're using the high-tech equivalent of a nom de guerre, you still have to make an argument, yes? Which, if you're a fool -- and an asshole -- will be readily identifiable as the product of ignorance and malice.

    I may not know how to create a "sockpuppet," but I do know a fool or an asshole when I encounter one.

    Glenn is neither, although it's a rotten shame that anyone should have to say so, given how self-evident it is to all men and women of good will.

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  192. From an article quoted by "anonymous":

    *The leftist economists from Harvard were purged more than a generation ago, and had to migrate to U Mass/Amherst, where they can no longer expect New York Times reporters to call them on a regular basis for their "expertise." ("Harvard," like "Yale" and "Princeton," and, to a lesser extent, "University of Chicago" and "Columbia," is an imprimatur of legitimacy in the New York Times, quite independent of whether the scholar in question is regarded by experts as a two-bit ass-kisser who belongs in the annals of legendary tenure mistakes, or is actually someone with a brain in his head.)

    Hahvahd?!?!? Oh. You mean that small theological seminary up the river.... ;-)

    Cheers,

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  193. Anonymous11:51 AM

    I would like to take this opportunity to be the first to congratulate Mr. Greenwald on this recent development. Nothing says you finally arrived as a force to be contended with like an attempted "Swift-Boating" by your opposition. However, I do feel this attempt, obviously a cooperative and concert effort, was half-hearted at best and none too swift. It was not commensurate in gravity or effect with Mr. Greenwald's stature as a worthy opponent. I'm sure my brother Swifty will be along later to disagree with me.

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  194. anonymous sez:

    Oh, daaaaamn! You just got caught using sock puppets! How are you going to explain that away? Good luck, douche.

    Clue for the clueless:

    201.37.43.1 is almost assuredly a router IP:

    http://www.dnsstuff.com/tools/whois.ch?ip=201.37.43.1&server=whois.registro.br

    http://www.dnsstuff.com/tools/ipall.ch?domain=201.37.43.1

    (routers by convention are accorded the <xxx.xxx.xxx.1> IP in a subnet; static end nodes and DHCP allocations come from the rest of the subnet range)

    It is in Brazil (no surprise for Glenn), but Brazil has a lot of people. So "Ellison" has the same Brazil router IP. Notice that Patterico makes no mention of the IP of the two other alleged "sock puppets" (now why is that?). You're going to need more than that in a court of law. A lot more.

    Patterico makes a lot of the alleged 'similarities' in the posts concerning Glenn's bio. Would it surprise Patterico if the bios were different, one wonders? I really don't know; I haven't figured out RW 'logic' yet....

    Cheers,

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  195. HWSNBN, clueless as ever:

    [jao]: bart, So is it your contention that the Office of Professional Responsibility should be disbanded, because DOJ lawyers have no professional responsibilities beyond those of the general bar?

    The DOJ Office of Professional Responsibility does not need to be disbanded just because Congress is misusing it in this case. That is an absurd argument.


    Well, if it isn't the role of the OPR to look into the ethical behaviour of lawyers in the maladministration, then what is the role? And, as I cited above, aren't the ethical strictures to work "under the rules", to show competence and diligence (something that seems to be lost on HWSNBN, FWIW, judging from his miscites and mistakes of law) and to have "respect for the legal system"? Did the lawyers consider the merits of opposing points of view, for instance?

    Cheers,

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  196. HWSNBN:

    Lawyers of all types (not just criminal defense counsel) give legal advice to their clients....

    And if it's bad advice, it's a ethics matter.

    ... Does your firm keep you in a hole and away from the clients and the light of day?

    No. My firm puts me on the front line with clients. But IANAL. I've said that before. HWSNBN missed it, like he misses so many things....

    [Arne]: FWIW, ignoring the fact that Dubya isn't the DOJ's clint, I think that HWSNBN missed the part that says you are to represet your client "zealously". See here...

    Huh?

    Dude, jao claimed that that attorneys advising the President have the ethical duty to instruct "the President on his affirmative duty to enforce the law faithfully" and that this alleged duty was higher than all others.


    If I could edit posts, I'd take that "zealously" out. My bad. I was referring to the ethical strictures that lawyers should act "zealously" but within the law.

    But see above from my post on the parts talking about the role of lawyers as advisors. I'll quote it again from the "zealously" paragraph for the brain-dead HWSNBN:

    "As advisor, a lawyer provides a client with an informed understanding of the client's legal rights and obligations and explains their practical implications."

    Why the hell are you going on about the duty to defend your client zealously?

    I think I covered that (and my mistake in not being clear the first time; I'll admit that I started out my point inartfully). But you never know when responding to HWSNBN; he's a bit slow on the uptake of things he doesn't want to take up....

    The better question might be: Why am I wasting my time replying to you again?

    Let me guess. HWSNBN thinks he managed to find something to pick on me for. Well, yes, he did. But I hope to have allayed his concerns this time. My prediction now is that he'll ignore the substance of my response.

    Cheers,

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  197. Anonymous12:40 PM

    Arne...Patterico makes a lot of the alleged 'similarities' in the posts concerning Glenn's bio. Would it surprise Patterico if the bios were different, one wonders? I really don't know; I haven't figured out RW 'logic' yet....

    Something tells me the "pitiful freako" has a prosecution style of strong-arming the probably innocent poor into copping a plea for the min in county.

    ReplyDelete