Friday, January 06, 2006

Hanging the messenger (updated)

Atrios asked this question yesterday:

So, what if it does come out that the administration was spying on journalists, political opponents, etc... How WILL the broders/russerts/matthews/hiatts/ roberts/humes of the world react?

I’m not sure exactly what those commentators would say (although I’m sure it would be appropriately balanced and would give due deference to the view that Bush had good arguments for such spying and did so only with the best of intentions for all of us), but I definitely know what Bush’s followers would say: It’s about time, and it doesn’t go far enough. Bush’s blogosphere followers have already begun justifying and excusing the Administration’s potential spying on journalists.

But clearly they believe that a lot more should be done to anti-Bush journalists than simply spying on their calls. Since the New York Times disclosed the undisputed fact that George Bush ordered his Administration to eavesdrop on American citizens with no judicial oversight and outside of FISA, the attacks on the media by the Administration and Bush’s followers have seriously escalated. Since this scandal arose, they have been relentlessly calling the Times and its sources "subversives" and "traitors," and have been openly claiming that they are guilty of treason.

When Bush followers use terms like "subversives" and "traitors," and when they accuse people of engaging in "treason," many assume that they are joking, that it’s a form of political hyperbole and it’s only meant symbolically. Pajamas Media member and Instapundit favorite Dean Esmay wants it know that the terms "traitors" and "treason" are used literally, and that these traitors must meet the fate which traitors deserve:

When I say "treason" I don't mean it in an insulting or hyperbolic way. I mean in a literal way: we need to find these 21st century Julius Rosenbergs, these modern day reincarnations of Alger Hiss, put them on trial before a jury of their peers, with defense counsel. When they are found guilty, we should then hang them by the neck until the are dead, dead, dead.

No sympathy. No mercy.Am I angry? You bet I am. But not in an explosive way. Just in the same seething way I was angry on 9/11.

These people have endangered American lives and American security. They need to be found, tried, and executed.

Similarly, on Powerline yesterday, Big Trunk shared some of his dirty fantasies about criminally prosecuting and imprisoning the reporters and editors of the Times who were responsible for having disclosed the fact that his Leader ordered the Government to eavesdrop on American citizens in violation of the law:


Assuming that the terms of the statute apply to the leaks involved in the NSA story, has the Times itself violated the statute and committed a crime? The answer is clearly affirmative.

Is the New York Times a law unto itself? In gambling that constitutional immunity protects it from criminal liability for its misconduct, the New York Times appears to me to be bluffing. Those of us who are disinclined to remit the defense of the United States to the judgment of the New York Times must urge the Bush administration to call the Times's bluff.

Even discussions of this sort have the effect, by design, of intimidating the nation’s media into remaining quiet about illegal acts by the Administration. With an Administration which throws American citizens indefinitely into military prisons without so much as charges being brought and with access to lawyers being denied, or which contemplates military attacks on unfriendly media outlets, isn’t it just inevitable that all of this talk about treason and criminal prosecution of the Times and its sources is going to have some substantial chilling effect on reporting wrongdoing by the Administration?

None of this is new. It’s all been tried before. The New York Times previously obtained classified documents revealing government misconduct with respect to the Vietnam War, and the Nixon Administration argued then, too, that the Times’ publication of that classified information was criminal and endangered national security. The U.S. Supreme Court in New York Times Co. v. The United States (the Pentagon Papers Case) 403 U.S. 713 (1971), barred the Nixon Administration from preventing publication by the Times of this information.

In doing so, Justice Hugo Black wrote a concurring opinion which makes clear just how dangerous and perverse it is for the Administration and its followers to seek to silence the media from reporting, truthfully, on the Administration’s illegal eavesdropping. I’m quoting from it at length because it is so instructive and applicable to what is occurring today:


Our Government was launched in 1789 with the adoption of the Constitution. The Bill of Rights, including the First Amendment, followed in 1791. Now, for the first time in the 182 years since the founding of the Republic, the federal courts are asked to hold that the First Amendment does not mean what it says, but rather means that the Government can halt the publication of current news of vital importance to the people of this country.

Yet the Solicitor General argues and some members of the Court appear to agree that the general powers of the Government adopted in the original Constitution should be interpreted to limit and restrict the specific and emphatic guarantees of the Bill of Rights adopted later. I can imagine no greater perversion of history. . . .

In the First Amendment the Founding Fathers gave the free press the protection it must have to fulfill its essential role in our democracy. The press was to serve the governed, not the governors. The Government's power to censor the press was abolished so that the press would remain forever free to censure the Government. The press was protected so that it could bare the secrets of government and inform the people. Only a free and unrestrained press can effectively expose deception in government.


The subtle and not-so-subtle threats against journalists for committing "treason" are not confined to the rabid Bush followers in the blogosphere. Bush’s closest political allies routinely make similar accusations, and Bush himself, in his very first Press Conference after disclosure of his eavesdropping, accused those responsible for the disclosure of “helping the enemy,” i.e., committing treason:

There is a process that goes on inside the Justice Department about leaks, and I presume that process is moving forward. My personal opinion is it was a shameful act for someone to disclose this very important program in a time of war. The fact that we're discussing this program is helping the enemy. . . .

With a Congress that is controlled by Republicans and hopelessly passive, and with a judiciary increasingly packed with highly deferential Bush appointees, the two remaining sources which can serve as meaningful checks on Executive power are governmental whistle-blowers and journalists, which is exactly why the most vicious and intimidating attacks are now being directed towards them.

UPDATE: Gavin M. at Sadly, No has conducted an investigation and discovered some disturbingly divided allegiances lurking beneath the thin veneer of Dean's uber-patriotism, and he helpfully suggests some appropriate punishments for Dean's transgressions.

26 comments:

  1. Anonymous2:47 PM

    Any reporters who help Al Qaeda belong in prison, just like any other citizen. Figures that a Bush-hating lawyer like you would think they deserve some exemption from the law.

    ReplyDelete
  2. Anonymous2:47 PM

    Dean Esmay is a kook. Among other things, he is an atheist who thinks Intelligent Design merits a "fair hearing," and that AIDS may have no causal relationship to the HIV virus.

    He likely knows precisely as much about the Rosenbergs, as well as what constitutes treason at law. The NYT did not publish anything that the terrorists did not already know was happening and which could not be surmised from myriad Internet sites. The only news was that the surveillance was being undertaken on American citizens without warrants.

    BTW, is there a call for an investigation into those horrid "leakers" who let us know that the govt is conducting warrantless surveillance of American mosques to detect radiation? I thought not.

    ReplyDelete
  3. Anonymous3:10 PM

    Ellsworth: Let us say it were the case that the Bush Administration had classified a program that was undertaking warrantless interception of the telephone calls of reporters, such as, say, Chritiane Amanpour -- and I mean this only hypothetically, for now. If the NYT knew that information, would they be wrong -- hypothetically -- to disclose it, even if the information were classified?

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  4. Anonymous3:20 PM

    Well said. Traitor gets tossed around far too often. A free society requires an informed public.

    ReplyDelete
  5. Anonymous3:25 PM

    Glenn G,:

    " Since this scandal arose, they have long relentlessly been calling the Times and its sources "subversives" and "traitors," and have been openly claiming that they are guilty of treason."

    So what? You've been declaring that the President broke the law, and have already convicted the man without benefit of trial.

    You're no slouch when it comes to demonizing those who offer any kind of defense of the man or question the appropriateness of calling for his prosecution.

    So much for YOUR high esteem for "the law" you claim you're protecting...you miserable hypocrite.

    BTW, G, you've been "pshrunk"...check out Dr. Sanity.

    Regards;

    ReplyDelete
  6. Anonymous4:32 PM

    Glenn,

    It seems to me that this spying on reporters is less an intimidation tactic directed toward the 4th Estate than something designed to function under the radar to catch leakers within the administration itself. If you tap all the reporters who might be the recipiants of leaks, the administration would be able to quickly root out those individuals who were exposing the administration's illegal activities. If anything, the intimidation is directed back at the administration itself and the various players "in the know" who might consider leaking damaging information.

    Alan

    http://www.americasedition.org

    ReplyDelete
  7. So what? You've been declaring that the President broke the law, and have already convicted the man without benefit of trial.

    Accusing newspapers of being "traitors" and guilty of "treason" which they report on controversial government actions can destroy the ability of the press to report on our government.

    What bad things happen when citizens accuse the Presdient of having broken the law?

    BTW, G, you've been "pshrunk"...check out Dr. Sanity.

    I just saw that. Is that woman a real psychologist?

    If so, she should have her license revoked. Running around the Internet psychologically diagnosing people you don't know on political grounds. Could there be any worse of an abuse of her professional license than that? I didn't think so.

    ReplyDelete
  8. Anonymous5:52 PM

    You go, Glen. Keep on wielding the truth-it always wins out, in the end.
    These are dangerous times, and just as dangerous for the freedoms of the right as anybody else. Have they stopped for just one moment to think how hamstrung, debilitated,and frightened they are going to be in the future when they will be unable to voice even the smallest complaint about their masters?

    ReplyDelete
  9. Anonymous6:52 PM

    GlennG:

    "I just saw that. Is that woman a real psychologist?"

    No, G., she's a real psychiatrist...M.D. and everything.

    "If so, she should have her license revoked."

    Maybe so, maybe not, but it would seem that she is "admitted to the Bar" to point out YOUR maladjustments.

    Perhaps that's why you react with such hostility...?

    "Accusing newspapers of being "traitors" and guilty of "treason" which they report on controversial government actions can destroy the ability of the press to report on our government."

    Newspapers publishing top secret government programs during a time of "war", of course, play no role whatsoever in "destroying the ability of the press", huh?

    I got news for you, chap. The press's Rights are not absolute, they END where the citizens' Rights BEGIN.

    I do not acquiesce in living at greater risk of death or injury at the hands of some Jihadist Pig-Fucker so that the New York Times can boost it's circulation and it's advertising revenue, see?

    Regards;

    ReplyDelete
  10. I got news for you, chap. The press's Rights are not absolute, they END where the citizens' Rights BEGIN.

    No, of course the press' rights are not absolute. Except for how the Constitution says that they are:

    "Congress shall make no law . . . abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press;

    But hey, they probably didn't really mean "no law", even though it's what they said.

    ReplyDelete
  11. Anonymous8:23 PM

    Glen G.:

    "No, of course the press' rights are not absolute. Except for how the Constitution says that they are"

    Even unto aiding and abetting our self-declared enemies in an armed struggle?

    What was it that you quoted that Justice Black said?

    "The press was to serve the governed, not the governors. The Government's power to censor the press was abolished so that the press would remain forever free to censure the Government. The press was protected so that it could bare the secrets of government and inform the people."

    Are you taking the position that it is "serving the people" by making it easier for their enemies to kill them?

    Yes...that IS what you are arguing, although you're not honest enough to say so.

    Now whether the dishonesty is primarily with yourself, or with other people, I'll leave for Doc Sanity to work out.

    Regards;

    ReplyDelete
  12. Anonymous9:00 PM

    As Franklin said,"We must hang together now or most assuredly we will all hang separately later." Or something.

    As things stand now, this adminstration classifies almost everything it does. It reveals little if anything at all when asked and drags its feet when ordered to by the courts. Just what this NSA program involves has been speculated upon by many, but the facts will remain buried as long as Cheney has any say in the matter.

    The basic functioning of a free republican democracy can not long endure when secrecy of dubious policies is allowed to trump the right of the people to know what goes on.

    ReplyDelete
  13. Anonymous11:08 PM

    I read the greatest line today. It goes something like "Even a quick lie can require an agonizingly difficult rebuttal." I have phrased it terribly, I know. But the point is, that is our bilgeman - one lie followed by another. They aren't even his lies, he gets them from other liars with their own blogs.

    Glenn, you have posted thoughtful piece after thoughtful piece, while your erstwhile detractors simply spout the same old lies they hear at their favorite watering hole - otherwise known as a radical right blog.

    Lies are cheap, and bilgeman continuing to harrass you with the same old lies proves that he is unoriginal and that his only intent is to use up your energy in repeating, in ever new ways, the truths that you took the time to figure out for yourself.

    Ideology always trumps thought for the reactionary right. Bilgeman is proof. Ellsworth is more of the same.

    Keep your mind open, Glenn, but recognize that you cannot be responsible for the beliefs of the ethically and intellectually challenged. Whatever they believe, it is their choice. Leave them be. Once in a while, you will find someone on the right who actually has something to say, something from which you can learn. Those few deserve our respect, howeve much we disagree with their conclusions. Bilgeman is not among that cadre. He is no more than a brown shirt thug, throwing rocks from the shadows; a distraction only, not the main event.

    Your task is to give people like me the tools with which to convince the ideologically open middle of America that there is a better way to do things, that a constant fear of terrorist attacks and a repulsive thirst for reprisal mark the short road to hell, and one we need not take. You write to explain, again and again, that we deserve, and should expect, a rule of law rather than a rule of subservience to some demagogic uber-father.

    You can't do it all, you can't do it alone. But what you do, you do so well.

    Keep perspective. Keep writing, thinking, and putting the best of yourself here for all to see, creatig something in which we can take heart, for this place is something special.

    This blog is a true child of the revolution, and you should be proud.

    I am. I am proud that such a place exists in this fucked up world. It gives me hope that we may yet turn the tide on the totalitarian right, that evil ideology so well exemplified by bilgeman and ellsworth.

    It's funny how the right thinks of themselves as Americans, yet were we back in revolutionary times, they would be Tories to a man, kissing the ass of the then King George for piss ant favors, while the true Americans were fomenting rebellion.

    Jake

    ReplyDelete
  14. Anonymous11:44 PM

    jake:

    "This blog is a true child of the revolution, and you should be proud.

    I am. I am proud that such a place exists in this fucked up world. It gives me hope that we may yet turn the tide on the totalitarian right, that evil ideology so well exemplified by bilgeman and ellsworth."

    Ha ha ha ha ha ha!

    Ha ha ha ha ha ha!

    Ha ha ha ha ha ha !

    Good GOD but THAT was FUNNY!

    Hahahahahaha!

    Hey GG.... you should sell this chump a t-shirt and an autographed poster of yourself for his bedroom.

    Maybe even an "action figure", so that he can play at being a political superhero..."Captain TRUE America battles the Totalitarian Thugs"

    Hahahahahaha~!

    Thanks, for that, jakey ole man, that was a tonic!

    Regards;

    ReplyDelete
  15. Anonymous Alan,

    I must confess that, while I agree that the Bush wiretapping is illegal, I was certainly more comfortable with it being between terrorist/terrorism suspects for a defense oriented intel gathering than I am with it being around reporters for criminal evidence gathering.

    In the first instance, it is a (flawed) attempt to protect the lives of the people of the US. In the second, it is 100% USDA choice secret police material.

    Glenn,

    You keep asserting that it was US citizens that were tapped. Has this been confirmed and I missed it, or is it simply rhetoric? Ultimately, the case is strong enough to stand without rhetoric.

    ReplyDelete
  16. Anonymous11:58 PM

    This blog is a true child of the revolution, and you should be proud.

    Yes, that is how he and his blog are perceived by many.

    ReplyDelete
  17. You keep asserting that it was US citizens that were tapped. Has this been confirmed and I missed it, or is it simply rhetoric?

    I acknowledge that nobody, including me, knows exactly who was eavesdropped on. But I say "U.S. citizens" for two reasons, which I think are independently compelling and which justify saying it:

    (1) The Executive Order expressly allows the Government to engage in warrantless eavesdropping on U.S. citizens (it says "U.S. persons," which includes legal residents and citizens). Whether it turns out accidentally that no U.S. citizens were swept up by the program, the Executive Order by its own terms expressly permit U.S. citizens to be eavesdropped on (it's one of the reasons why an Order was necessary). Thus, the program was one that authorized warrantless eavesdropping on U.S. citizens.

    (2) While nobody knows for sure how many "U.S. persons" in the U.S. were eavesdropped on, all reports I've seen say that it's in the hundreds, at least, since the inception of the program. The odds that not one of them is an American citizen is miniscule.

    That the program expressly authorzied eavesdropping on U.S. citizens, combined with the virtual certainty that at least some of the targets were citizens, provides, in my view, ample justification for making the statement.

    ReplyDelete
  18. Anonymous9:04 PM

    These defenders of illegal wiretaps seem to be confused. They want to accuse anyone angry at illegal wiretaps with aiding and abetting the enemy. As if being angry at a govt that wiretaps Americans without warrants is the same as wanting the govt to do no wiretapping whatsoever. I'm more than happy to know our govt is listening in on those who would do us harm. They had better be. The ease with which they can do so legally makes me sleep well at night knowing our system allows those charged with our protection to do their job unencumbered by overly intrusive regulation. So when they wiretap illegally, without warrants, they need to be slapped down. What is hard to understand here? Rightwing wackos would charge anyone who questions Bush with treason. In this case, the stretch it takes to make anger over illegal wiretaps the equivalent of being angry that the govt is doing its job and listening in on those who would do us harm by getting warrants and doing so smacks of desperation on the part of those who know the POTUS has stupidly broken the law. The ease with which they could have gotten warrants to listen in on anyone they felt posed a risk shows that either Bush is just an idiot, or they are listening in on conversations they think they might not have been able to convince a judge to let them listen to. During these post 9/11 times, any wiretap that would be rejected by a judge would be one that would have to obviously and demonstrably useless in the war on terror. In which case, they're wiretapping Americans for reasons other that to protect us.

    Take your pick--Bush is an idiot or Bush is listening in on Americans for reasons having nothing to do with the War on Terror.

    Thank God we have laws to slap down wannabe tyrants.

    ReplyDelete
  19. Anonymous10:18 PM

    Anonymous(I dub thee "Drool-cup"):

    "These defenders of illegal wiretaps seem to be confused."

    No, but YOU mosy definitely are...here's how:

    "They want to accuse anyone angry at illegal wiretaps with aiding and abetting the enemy."

    No, pallie, you MADE that up, it's a hobgoblin of your mind, see.

    I have a treason beef with the leaker(s) at NSA, an aiding and abetting beef with the NYT, and contempy for people who are more afraid of Bush than Osama.

    BTW, can any of you Admin critics name any prosecution of a citizen or legal alien that has been laid at the door of this NSA intercept program...?

    I'll be waiting. Until thenm what's the big deal? If they never prosecute you for it, you really don't have any complaint, do ya?

    "The ease with which they can do so legally makes me sleep well at night knowing our system allows those charged with our protection to do their job unencumbered by overly intrusive regulation."

    Almost to a man, the critics here assert that these warrants were "easy"...how do y'all know that?

    And can any of you posit any valid reason that the Administration would NOT want to divulge a target to the FISA court?

    Like, was someone at FISA talking to the enemy?

    What was the reason that that judge had for stepping down?
    He didn't give any reason, did he?
    He just resigned.

    Hmmmmmm.

    "Rightwing wackos would charge anyone who questions Bush with treason."

    There you go again, generalizing like a paranoiac.
    (wipe your mouth, ace, the spittle's flying).

    "Take your pick--Bush is an idiot or Bush is listening in on Americans for reasons having nothing to do with the War on Terror."

    Or, as I pointed out above, we had us a turd in our stewpot...someone who was playing for the other side. And he was known, and the bargain they made him was that he would go away quietly.

    But you'll never consider that for a minute, willya.

    Too far-fetched, huh?

    I thought that about Clinton pardoning Marc Rich...but that's what he did, wasn't it.
    And we found out later that Rich's ex-wife wrote a really big check, didn't we?

    If a President can be bought, then why not a Federal Judge?

    Regards;

    ReplyDelete
  20. Anonymous3:37 PM

    You think the NY Times aided and abetted by tipping the bad guys off that they were being listened to? So in your world the bad guys were talking openly about their plans until the Times story came out, and now that they know they're being overheard they're liable to start talking in code and using other tricks to fool the NSA.

    And the reason they had to go around the law was because a judge on the FISA court was working for Al Quaida.

    In a world like that, Bush is a genius and people who question your logic are drooling morons.

    Don't worry Bilge Boy, your safe in your little dreamland. Don't worry your pretty little head about troubling facts sneaking in to your fantasy world. A guy like you is safe from scary realities.

    Bush is honest and the country believes every word you say. 70% of Americans aren't fed up with this administration's lies and presidents who break the law are safe from impeachment.


    Santa bring you a BB gun to sleep with at night when the democrats are howling on the moors?

    Sleep tight little man. You're King of Your Bedroom and Champion of Republican Fantasy.

    ReplyDelete
  21. Anonymous4:39 PM

    Anon Drool-cup:

    "Don't worry Bilge Boy, your safe in your little dreamland."


    Yeah, I figured you'd dismiss the possibility out of hand.

    Ridiculous...unthinkable, right?

    But...remember this?:

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A15444-2005Feb10.html

    Oh, yeaaah...well, I s'pose that that was totally different, huh?

    BTW, did you notice that in reporting of Judge Roberts' resignation from the FISA court, the notion that his resignation was "in protest" is ALWAYS attributed to sources...but NEVER to Roberts himself?

    Isn't that odd?

    If he resigned in protest, shouldn't he have the gumption to say so for himself?

    A federal judge, with a lifetime appointment to the bench, and he can't draft a statement and sign it, huh?

    Sounds to me like someone is trying to spin his resignation VERY hard.

    Regards;

    ReplyDelete
  22. Anonymous4:00 AM

    Anon Drool-cup:

    Hey, there's also THIS tidbit:

    "In two unclassified briefings for congressional staff in June and July 2002 senior FBI officials acknowledged the truth of a number of Edmonds' allegations, including those against a co-worker, Melek Can Dickerson, who had worked for an organization that was the target of surveillance in a counter-intelligence probe until she joined the bureau in October 2001 -- and did not disclose the work on her application."

    That's none too smart.
    Also..

    "According to congressional staffers, bureau officials also said that Dickerson had a continuing relationship with at least two individuals who were surveillance targets in the probe. They acknowledged that Dickerson had either mistranslated or incorrectly marked "not pertinent" hundreds of telephone conversations recorded as part of the investigation and had tried to ensure that she was given responsibility for translating all the "take" from surveillance of that group of targets."

    And that's beyond something a simpleton would attempt, isn't it?

    That's the kind of thing a traitor does.

    The above quotes from:

    http://www.washtimes.com/upi-breaking/20050222-072936-1680r.htm

    Translating intercepts to obtain a FISA warrant...which organization would likely be tasked with that?

    Turds in the stewpot...no, suh...ain't none in there, and I don't know how they got there if there is.

    Regards;

    ReplyDelete
  23. Anonymous4:55 PM

    I've been too busy to get back to you Bilge Boy, but you claimed I was making up the fact that right-wingers try to make anger over wiretaps without warrants the same as anger that Bush is listening to Al Quaida at all. You said it was not true. I can't believe you even try to weasel out of it, as all over the TV, radio, and internet, right-wing fanatics make statements like this one by Ann Coulter.

    "If the Democrats had any brains, they'd distance themselves from the cranks demanding Bush's impeachment for listening in on terrorists' phone calls to Abu Musab al-Zarqawi. (Then again, if they had any brains, they'd be Republicans.)

    To the contrary! It is Democrats like Sen. Barbara Boxer who are leading the charge to have Bush impeached for spying on people with Osama's cell phone number."

    As you can see, she is doing precisely what I claimed. I've heard O'Reilly, Rush, Hannity and all the others do the same little shuffle step. They start whining about people who are upset with illegal wiretaps, and quickly shift this into pretending their opponents are simply upset that Bush is defending and protecting us by eavesdropping on those who would do us harm. So may evil-doers, so little time to obey the Constitution of the United States of America.

    But you righties are so clever. Conflate and confuse then deny you're doing it, and accuse the other side of doing what you're doing yourself. "How could we be accused of doing something we hate so much we want to hang our opponents for doing?" Boy that's tricky. You guys are geniuses. Unfortunately the Bell Curve leaves most of the populous ill-equipped to spot blatant con jobs. Without the rubes, the right-wing would crumble.

    But primarily it's the hypocrisy of the right that is so amazing. You screamed for Clinton's head when he lied about a blow job, but when Bush breaks a law that actually matters, he's above the law. If Clinton had done warrantless wiretaps, his impeachment would have gone through without a hitch, and you'd have been leading the charge. And I'd have agreed. We liberals just don't have what it takes to stay loyal to our team when they do things that threaten our freedoms. That's why Republicans have the advantage in situations like this. They're partisanship knows no bounds, and they're untroubled by putting "the team" ahead of the country.

    ReplyDelete
  24. Anonymous8:11 PM

    Anon Drool-cup:

    "You said it was not true."

    It wasn't and it isn't. I say again:
    You made it up.

    "I can't believe you even try to weasel out of it, as all over the TV, radio, and internet, right-wing fanatics make statements like this one by Ann Coulter."

    You used the pronoun "They"...I am not "They", (except perhaps in that bag of snakes and spiders that you call your mind).

    I stated quite clearly what my beefs were, and with whom, and why.

    I am not Ann Coulter, Ann Coulter is not me...can you remember that?

    "They start whining about people who are upset with illegal wiretaps, and quickly shift this into pretending their opponents are simply upset that Bush is defending and protecting us by eavesdropping on those who would do us harm."

    That's ANOTHER thing that you've made up.

    You have jumped to the conclusion that Bush and the NSA have broken the law.
    What need for an investigation?
    What need for a trial?

    The Anonymous Left has decreed that Bush has broken the Law, it must be so...right?

    "So may evil-doers, so little time to obey the Constitution of the United States of America."

    Indeed, Drool-cup...indeed.
    You weep tears of blood to safeguard the privacy of a suspected terrorist, but you run roughshod right over the Presumption of Innocence of the democratically elected President.

    But you'll lecture one and all about the Constitution.
    You got a set of balls on YOU, ace.

    "Unfortunately the Bell Curve leaves most of the populous ill-equipped to spot blatant con jobs. Without the rubes, the right-wing would crumble."

    And rather than face the reality about how offensive and arrogant and hypocritical the Left has become, it's partisans engage in wild conspiracy theories about how the GOP steals elections.

    You called a majority of voting Americans stupid hicks, and then wonder why you're handed your hat come national elections.

    "But you righties are so clever."

    No chum, they're simply less offensive to the voting public than other partisans.

    " If Clinton had done warrantless wiretaps, his impeachment would have gone through without a hitch, and you'd have been leading the charge."

    You lie.

    Two words for you, hotshot:

    Craig Livingstone

    Remember him? Remember "Filegate"?

    Of course not...right down your memory hole.

    http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/white_house/june96/fbi_files_6-20.html

    Liar

    Regards;

    ReplyDelete
  25. Anonymous6:09 AM

    You're a funny guy Bilge Bucket. I posted a comment about the defenders of illegal wiretaps and the stupid things they say, and you told me I'd made it up. Then I posted a quote from one of the defenders of illegal wiretaps I was talking about, showing her saying EXACTLY what I'd said "they" were saying, and again you tell me I've made it up. I don't think I could find a better example of what I was talking about than that quote from Coulter. She, Hannity, Limbaugh etc etc etc are the "they" I was referring to, and I could easily find quotes from all of them saying exactly what Annie the Freak was saying. Was it hard for you to understand what she meant. She was claiming that all of us who are upset at illegal wiretaps are "cranks" who want Bush impeached for merely listening in on our enemies. She was doing exactly the song and dance I was talking about, and all the rest are doing the same thing.
    I couldn't care less what your beefs are or have been. I never had you in mind when I made that first post and still don't. You're continuing need to put yourself in the group I was referring to, namely, "defenders of illegal wiretaps" has to do with your own weird hangups.

    You're a funny kid Bilge Mouth.

    As for Bush, I'd be more than happy to suspend judgment on his guilt and presume innocence, providing he gets arrested and tried for what I and many others certainly believe to be a crime. There may be things I don't know about that will change my mind when the trial starts, but a trial there needs to be, as on its face his program of illegal wiretaps certainly looks illegal. Fortunately some Republicans in congress agree with all the experts who've said what Bush has done is BLATANTLY ILLEGAL, and petitioned for hearings, so there is hope Bush will be held accountable.

    As for you Bilge Bucket, I think I heard Clinton may have murdered some more drug dealers. And he's gonna get away with it again!

    You better get on it.

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