Saturday, April 29, 2006

Building the Secrecy Wall higher and higher

There are multiple investigative efforts underway -- Congressional, judicial, journalistic -- seeking to uncover the Bush administration's illegal warrantless eavesdropping activities aimed at Americans, and the administration, in order to keep its conduct concealed, has doggedly sought to impede each of these investigations. The administration's cover up of its behavior has become so severe that the usually meek Arlen Specter actually threatened this week to introduce legislation to cut off funding for the NSA program unless the administration ceased its stonewalling of the Judiciary Committee's investigation.

The latest such obstruction is the administration's invocation of what, prior to the Bush administration, was the rarely invoked "State Secrets Privilege" in order to demand that a federal judge dismiss the lawsuit brought by the libertarian privacy group Electronic Frontier Foundation against AT&T. That lawsuit alleges that AT&T secretly diverts electronic communications to the NSA in order to allow the NSA to monitor those communications without warrants, i.e., in violation of the law. From this morning's The New York Times:

The lawsuit, accusing the company of illegally collaborating with the National Security Agency in a vast surveillance program, was filed in February by the
Electronic Frontier Foundation, a civil liberties group.

The class-action suit, which seeks an end to the collaboration it alleges, is based in part on the testimony of Mark Klein, a retired technician for the company who says Internet data passing through an AT&T switching center in San Francisco is being diverted to a secret room. There, Mr. Klein says, the security agency has installed powerful computers to eavesdrop without warrants on the digital data and forward the information to an undisclosed place.

The foundation has filed documents obtained by Mr. Klein that ostensibly show detailed technical information on N.S.A. technology used to divert Internet data. He has also said in a deposition that employees of the agency went to the switching center to oversee special projects.

The judicially created "State Secrets Privilege" was first recognized by the Supreme Court in United States v. Reynolds, 345 U.S. 1 (1953), a suit brought under the Tort Claims Act by the widows of 3 civilians who died when an Air Force plane crashed. The widows sought to obtain military reports regarding the crash in order to prove that the Air Force was negligent, but the Supreme Court upheld the Government's refusal to produce the documents on the ground that doing so would divulge military secrets and harm national security:

It may be possible to satisfy the court, from all the circumstances of the case, that there is a reasonable danger that compulsion of the evidence will expose military matters which, in the interest of national security, should not be divulged. When this is the case, the occasion for the privilege is appropriate, and the court should not jeopardize the security which the privilege is meant to protect by insisting upon an examination of the evidence, even by the judge alone, in chambers.

As it turns out, those Air Force reports were finally released 47 years later -- in 2000 -- and they contained no military secrets at all, but were suffuse with information showing that there had been gross negligence with regard to the maintenance of the plane's engines, facts which would have likely been fatal to the Air Force's defense had it not been able to successfully conceal those documents by falsely claiming that national security would be harmed by disclosure:

But in early 2000, one of the daughters of the deceased crew members acquired newly declassified copies of the documents that the Air Force had withheld and was astonished to find nothing corresponding to what the Air Force affidavits had portrayed.

"Contrary to the statements in the Affidavits, on which the Supreme Court expressly relied, not one of the documents... contain any secret or privileged information," according to a new complaint, filed last October. "The documents consist, instead, of admissions of negligence on the part of the Air Force."

One of the odd - and dangerous - features of this privilege doctrine is that, in many cases, courts allow the Government to assert the privilege without even submitting the documents in question to a judge for the judge to review in secrecy, a process known as in camera review. That process is typically used to enable a judge to review documents over which there is a disputed privilege claim (such as attorney-client privilege) without the other side being able to see the documents before there is a ruling on whether the documents are really privileged. But unlike other privileges, once the Executive asserts the "State Secrets Privilege," courts frequently accept the government's claim without even reviewing the documents. As the Reynolds Court explained:

Regardless of how it is articulated, some like formula of compromise must be applied here. Judicial control over the evidence in a case cannot be abdicated to the [345 U.S. 1, 10] caprice of executive officers. Yet we will not go so far as to say that the court may automatically require a complete disclosure to the judge before the claim of privilege will be accepted in any case.

In other words, the doctrine is notable because the Executive Branch can decree that the documents should not be disclosed because disclosure will harm national security, and that decree is, in practice, often blindly accepted without anyone reviewing its truthfulness or propriety. For that exact reason, and quite unsurprisingly, the Bush administration loves this doctrine, as it is so consistent with its monarchical view of presidential infallibility, and the administration has become the most aggressive and enthusiastic user of this doctrine as a means of preventing disclosure of government documents:

"This comparison highlights the risk of permitting the executive branch to determine, without close judicial scrutiny, whether relevant government information may be withheld from discovery," according to D. Churchill and E. Goldenberg in a paper entitled "Who Will Guard the Guardians? Revisiting the State Secrets Privilege of United States v. Reynolds," published in Federal Contracts Report, vol. 80, no. 11, September 30, 2003. . . .

And "recent cases indicate that Bush administration lawyers are using the privilege with offhanded abandon," they write in a comprehensive study to be published this year in Political Science Quarterly.

Unsatisfied with the mere power to unilaterally block courts from obtaining relevant documents while he is in office, President Bush, while the rubble from the World Trade Center was still sitting in lower Manhattan and everyone was distracted by that, had the presence of mind to extend this power to assert the State Secrets Privilege to both his father and to himself for life and even thereafter:

In November 2001 President Bush issued executive order 13233 that would permit former presidents to independently assert the state secrets privilege to bar disclosure of records generated during their tenure.

More than that, the Bush order would make the state secrets privilege hereditary, like some divine right of kings, enabling the heirs of deceased presidents to assert the privilege after their death.

"This is a power heretofore unrecognized either in courts or politics," Weaver and Pallitto observe.

As the Chicago Tribune detailed last year, the administration has also used this doctrine repeatedly to obstruct any judicial proceedings designed to investigate its torture and rendition policies, among others:

The Bush administration is aggressively wielding a rarely used executive power known as the state-secrets privilege in an attempt to squash hard-hitting court challenges to its anti-terrorism campaign.

How the White House is using this privilege, not a law but a series of legal precedents built on national security, disturbs some civil libertarians and open-government advocates because of its sweeping power. Judges almost never challenge the government's assertion of the privilege, and it can be fatal to a plaintiff's case.

The government is invoking the privilege in an attempt to wipe out the heart of a lawsuit that seeks to examine rendition, the secretive and controversial practice of sending terrorism suspects to foreign countries where they might be tortured.

Use of the secrets privilege could also eliminate a suit by a former FBI contract linguist who charges that the bureau bungled translations of terrorism intelligence before and after the Sept. 11 attacks.

The Bush administration is also using the secrets privilege to seek dismissal of a third case not related directly to terrorism. And the administration has invoked the privilege in less sweeping ways on several other occasions.

The use of state-secrets privilege, critics say, is part of President Bush's forceful expansion of presidential secrecy, including a more restrictive approach to releasing documents under the Freedom of Information Act; limitations on the dissemination of presidential papers; and curtailment of information on people rounded up in the war on terrorism.

And so it goes, over and over, with seemingly no end. This administration endlessly searches out obscure legal doctrines or new legal theories which have one purpose -- to eradicate limits on presidential power and to increase the President's ability to prevent disclosure of all but the most innocuous and meaningless information.

A chilling Washington Post op-ed this morning from former investigative journalist Mark Feldstein regarding the FBI's unprecedentedly aggressive attempt to use the Espionage Act of 1917 -- a law which, prior to this administration, was reserved for very narrowly defined cases of true espionage but which is now being converted into an all-purpose Official States Secret Act -- makes clear just how systematic is this effort to erect an impenetrable and unprecedented (at least for our country) wall of secrecy around this administration's conduct.

This administration has been caught in one abuse of power scandal after the next. A majority of Americans no longer trust the administration's honesty or competence. The absolute last thing that they ought to be doing is engaging in a full-fledged campaign to create unprecedented shields of secrecy around what they are doing, so that they can operate with more secrecy and less transparency than any government we have previously had. And yet that, of course, is just what they are doing.

When the NSA scandal began, the administration boastfully insisted that it had nothing to hide and welcomed as many investigations as could be brought, while their defenders claimed that such investigations would be wonderfully helpful to the President politically. Six months later, we still don't know who was eavesdropped on, whether those eavesdropped on had anything to do with terrorism, what was done with the information, and whether there are other warrantless eavesdropping programs besides the one the New York Times discovered. And the reason we don't know any of that is because the administration, consistent with their extremist love of government secrecy, has done everything possible to prevent the very investigations they claimed that they welcomed.

UPDATE: Christy at FDL has more on this case.

UPDATE II: This article in The Oregonian reports on what might turn out to be the most significant, currently pending challenge to the legality of the administration's warrantless eavesdropping program. The lawsuit was brought by various plaintiffs and their attorneys alleging that their conversations were illegally eavesdropped on by the administration as part of the NSA program (something they discovered when the administration accidentally and incompetently produced transcripts of the recorded conversations to the lawyers). The Govenrment requested permission to file their response to the lawsuit in secret -- without even the plaintiffs being able to see the response -- but the judge denied the request, concluding that the Government failed -- at least thus far -- to provide convincing rationale to justify that level of secrecy.

There are far too many of these investigative branches for the administration to permanently conceal their conduct in the NSA scandal. It is only a matter of time before it is exposed.

137 comments:

  1. Anonymous1:24 PM

    So are there any factors in this particular case against AT&T that might cause the judge to deny the secrets privilege, or at least invoke an in camera review of the evidence by the judge?

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  2. Anonymous1:42 PM

    That's the first I've heard of 'executive order 13233'; if it is indeed as you describe it, then... with all that Bush and his admin have already done, I'm still shocked at the transparently corrupt nature of it. As if a former president's estate should have any control over what the government reveals after his time in office! State secrets are not personal property, for Christ's sake. I'd love to see some Democrat roll up their sleeves and use that (does Feingold have to do everything in that party?), but, well, you know how it goes...

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  3. Anonymous1:43 PM

    Glenn, a question: Can a future president reverse executive orders by this, or any other, president?

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  4. Now is the time to invoke the logic that defenders of the NSA program use. "It shouldn't bother you if you have nothing to hide."
    The Bush administration clearly has MUCH to hide.

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  5. Anonymous1:47 PM

    sunny:

    Here's the order in question; check out the last bit.

    http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/2001/11/eo-pra.html

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  6. So are there any factors in this particular case against AT&T that might cause the judge to deny the secrets privilege, or at least invoke an in camera review of the evidence by the judge?

    The administration will claim that the documents in question would reveal the operational details of their eavesdropping capabilities. That's the sort of claim to which federal judges have exhibited great deference in the past. I think the judiciary is growing as increasingly suspicious and frustrated with this administration as every other part of the country is, so we will see if more judicial skepticism is forthcoming. The article I linked to in the Update, from The Oregonian, suggests that it is.

    Can a future president reverse executive orders by this, or any other, president?

    I believe (without being certain that it applies in all cases) that Executive Orders can be revoked or modified at any time by the president, and that applies to subsequent presidents as well.

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  7. Anonymous1:49 PM

    The Bush Administration has been using the state secrets privilege with increasing frequency.

    Most recently -- last month -- it was invoked by CIA Director Porter Goss to shut down a lawsuit against the agency, according to this item in Secrecy News.

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  8. Another question: Has an executive order ever been challenged in court or by the legislative branch? If memory serves me, Carter's rescension of executive orders relating to overseas assassinations was bolstered by legislation--or do I have the sequence of events right?

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  9. The state secrets doctrine is for pansies. Check out the new "embarrassment doctrine:"

    Judge Trager never ruled on the state-secret motion, because he goes one step further. He argues, amazingly, that even invoking the state secret doctrine might prove embarrassing to the government, because "it could be construed as the equivalent of a public admission that the alleged conduct had occurred in the manner claimed." Therefore, the lawsuit must be tossed out without forcing the government to use the nuclear option. It's just too embarrassing to have to go nuclear in order to shield your officials (and those nice Canadians) from having it revealed that they colluded in the torture of their kidnap victim.

    The problem is that there is no limit to the anti-embarrassment principle.


    Read the whole thing.

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  10. Anonymous2:00 PM

    kind of like the group, Monkeys -- they weren't a band, played on on TV. All they needed was for the media to proclaim that this was the latest "hot" group...

    And it was all fake....

    That "circle of links", not liberal, often not even qualified to be considered an "expert," and (with hindsite) frequently wrong.

    Guess you own the faux "advertise liberally" crowd some paybacks for you book plugs..... so I guess we will see tons and tons of links these next few weeks to the usual gang that has stolen the term "liberal", abandoned the socio-economic issues that defined liberalism, and provide the "lead work" for divide and conquor by proclaiminig that "if only eveyone would shut up and do what FDL, Atrios, Americablog, and the "circle of links" says....

    It will take coalitions of people based on the pocketbook issues that most Americans share.

    But you can sell a bunch of crap with your cicle of links.

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  11. With regard to executive orders, my understanding is that Congress can try to override them as well--and that executive orders can try to override laws.

    Since most executive orders are secret and since they apply to the president's own branch, I believe the consensus is that executive orders tend to win out in practice over laws. I'm not sure about that, though.

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  12. Anonymous2:07 PM

    anonymous said:
    Guess you own the faux "advertise liberally" crowd some paybacks for you book plugs..... so I guess we will see tons and tons of links these next few weeks to the usual gang that has stolen the term "liberal", aba--

    Speaking as a forthright liberal myself... you are a gibbering, serial idiot.

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  13. Anonymous2:07 PM

    See the excellent TPM Muckracker for more details about the Anderson papers.
    Trying To Get Muckraker's Papers, Did FBI Trick Widow?

    I spoke with Jack Anderson's son Kevin yesterday. He's an attorney, and acts as the family's representative with the FBI. He told me that the lead agent in this case, Leslie Martell, went behind his and his siblings' backs to get his elderly mother, Olivia, to sign a form that would allow FBI agents to review and remove documents from her husband's files.

    Specter also seems to be backing down from his threat.

    Specter made clear that, for now, the threat was just that.
    "I'm not prepared to call for the withholding of funds," he told reporters later.


    The push for mandatory data retention continues.

    Colorado Rep. Diana DeGette's proposal says that any Internet service that "enables users to access content" must permanently retain records that would permit police to identify each user. The records could not be discarded until at least one year after the user's account was closed.

    Maybe the NSA storage budget is getting tight.

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  14. disenchanted dave: Therefore, the lawsuit must be tossed out without forcing the government to use the nuclear option.

    There is a case where executive order has been challenged, I believe. It related to Area 51, the secret airbase in Nevada which was established by executive order and which has never been officially recognized to exist.

    A TV report showed that workers there were exposed to chemicals that killed them and wrought horrendous diseases on their bodies. In court, they successfully, after numerous attempts, got the government to admit the existence of the base and thereby were able to get their clients' needed medical services.

    I am not a lawyer, so the niceties of the case are perhaps more subtle than I have described them. Yet, it does appear that the government's secrecy curtain can be broken.

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  15. Glenn, Thank you for such an excellent and informative article.

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  16. Anonymous2:41 PM

    This country was established with such healthy mistrust of power that the govt is lucky 'we the people" have been good enough to allow them the luxuries (like State Secrets) they have. One redeemable quality of this admin might be the revocation of even those elements of law which assume honest intentions on the part of govt.

    As far as I'm concerned there should be no case whatsoever where the govt's word is accepted without some verification. There is no possible case where we can't find a judge qualified to look at the details of govt claims regarding state secrets and risks of disclosure.

    It is precisely the kind of admin that we are presented with in GW Bush, the one that wants to act completely behind a wall of secrecy, that we have to build our laws to protect us from. The potential for abuse is so great that the govt that wants turn America into a despotic tyranny (even if they really do believe it's for Americans' own good--what with God and all behind them, and Satan at the gate) can easily use those few loopholes that give it unfettered power to do just that.

    When Bush first moved to cover his Dad's ass I knew something was wrong. Dick Cheney has made a lifetime study of where the weaknesses are in our system to allow him to act without having to answer to anyone. The stories of these guys--going back to Nixon's WH--present us with an unprecedented attack on our way of life. The way in which they've moved to cut off any possibility that their actions might be revealed tells me all I need to know.

    More than ever it is critical that we vote into power a congress that will carry out its constitutional duty to check the executive. Once we do that, the house of cards will start to collapse, and I suspect even I will be shocked by what we discover.

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  17. Could United States v. Reynolds somehow be opened up again for re-review based on the evidence released in 2000?

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  18. Armagednoutahere: More than ever it is critical that we vote into power a congress that will carry out its constitutional duty to check the executive. Once we do that, the house of cards will start to collapse, and I suspect even I will be shocked by what we discover.

    Isn't this sentiment someone misplaced? It assumes that the Dems want to turn this whole fiasco around. What basis is there for thinking/believing that? Except for Feingold, Conyers and some others, it appears to me that the Dems pretty much accept the Bushian status quo.

    Someone mentioned Clinton above. Wasn't it he who resurrected the executive order on assassination?

    Anyway, until you can show me how, when, where, the Dems have opposed the police-state mentality put up by Bush et al, I am not so sanguine about the future as some here appear to be.

    I mean how much longer does Harry Reid need to get his ass kicked by Roberts before he threatens to shut the Senate down again over the investigation into the lies and deception perpetrated by the Bush admin in its runup to the Iraq War?

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  19. Anonymous3:31 PM

    "State Secrets Privilege" has also been invoked in the Sibel Edmonds case.

    Early CBS coverage

    The ACLU

    The Village Voice

    An Interview

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  20. Anonymous3:32 PM

    There are far too many of these investigative branches for the administration to permanently conceal their conduct in the NSA scandal. It is only a matter of time before it is exposed.

    LOL!!!!

    We still don't have the full story on JFK!!!!!

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  21. While we're linking to cases associated with state secrets, you might wish to peruse this posting at MojoBlog. The writer there conveniently also links to an archive of documents about national security whistleblowing.

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  22. Anonymous3:44 PM



    Blogger.com swallowed my last link. One day I will figure out this blogger bug and email the proper people. It has something to do with links at the end of a post.

    the cynic librarian,
    I hadn't seen the MojoBlog. Thanks.

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  23. Anonymous3:59 PM

    For what is it worth, any link that ends in a "/" causes blogger to eat the link and go crazy.

    Verified in Safari and Firefox on OS X. I will email blogger.com but am am not hopeful.

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  24. Anonymous4:01 PM

    Ralph -

    Read the original link to the FAS site mention of the story.

    The survivors and heirs of the original Reynolds plaintiffs said that the Court was defrauded by the Air Force and that they were improperly deprived of evidence and compensation to which they were entitled.

    Earlier last year, the plaintiffs had petitioned the Supreme Court to reopen the case (Secrecy News, 03/04/03), but the Court rejected the motion to file the petition (SN, 06/24/03).

    Consequently, the Reynolds survivors, represented by the same law firm as 50 years ago, filed a new initial complaint in federal district court. See Herring v. United States, filed October 1 in the Eastern District of Pennsylvania, here: link


    The part I find the most distressing, if the least surprising, is this one:
    Last week, the government moved to dismiss the case, arguing that the plaintiffs are not qualified to assess the original sensitivity of the now declassified documents.

    "The mere fact that the information ... may strike the plaintiffs today as innocuous, trivial, or unimportant, is simply not probative" of whether they were sensitive 50 years ago, the government stated.

    Moreover, even if it were true that government witnesses had perjured themselves in the 1953 case, that would not legally constitute a "fraud upon the court," the government said.


    I mean, I know lawyers have a job to do, but what the hell is that shit? Doesn't lying to a judge, in court, by definition, consititue "fraud upon the court?"

    I am reminded of one of the maneuvers of Tom DeLay's legal team, who tried to contest his indictment for money laundering on the grounds that "...no crime occurred because the transactions at issue involved checks and the state law covered only transfers of cash..

    "In a democracy, people usually get the government they deserve." -Hunter Thompson, quoting Adlai Stevenson

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  25. Anonymous4:12 PM

    Isn't it becoming obvious to everyone what this is all about and why all this is happening?

    Also why everyone in government and the judciary is going along with all this?

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  26. Anonymous4:17 PM

    The daughters in the Reynolds case should seek reinstatement of the matter. In CA, fraud tolls the statute of limitations. Not sure if this applies federally, but it should if what you say is true . . . should also be an investigation of what appears to be a deliberate fraud on the courts by the government.

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  27. Anonymous4:33 PM

    Glenn: state secrets when using a non-state entity to do the spying? That seems a stretch.

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  28. Anonymous4:40 PM

    Without having researched whether it made it any further, it seems like the Reynolds case was denied on appeal about a year ago:
    link
    link is to a pdf file, sorry.

    I'm not a lawyer, but it seems like a reasonable denial to me. The papers in question were deemed by the court to have had information which identified the capabilities of the bomber and possibly identifying information regarding the experimental electronics they were flying. Maybe one of the lawyers here could take a look?

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  29. anonymous:

    hmmm, i suppose you're not aware of "private contractors"? right.........

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  30. Anonymous4:56 PM

    Cynic Librarian said:


    Isn't this sentiment someone misplaced? It assumes that the Dems want to turn this whole fiasco around. What basis is there for thinking/believing that? Except for Feingold, Conyers and some others, it appears to me that the Dems pretty much accept the Bushian status quo.

    I said its critical we elect a congress that will carry out its duty to check the executive. Didn't mention Dems. Though I understand thats the natural assumption.
    The disdain with which I hold all pols at this point makes me think its time we, the people, start to make it clear we intend to elect whoever assures us they will act to check the abuses going on in the current admin. If the Dems step and and put promises into some form that allows me to believe them, then thats the way I 'll vote. If some Republicans are willing to do the job, thats fine too. I'd love to have an option that isn't the lesser of two evils.

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  31. Anonymous5:15 PM

    Isn't this sentiment someone misplaced? It assumes that the Dems want to turn this whole fiasco around. What basis is there for thinking/believing that?

    There are two basic theories as to why the Democrats have failed to become an opposition and instead stood idly by or been complicit in the Republicans' running amok. The first, call it the 'no clue, no plan, no guts' theory is pretty obvious. This explanation says that they are in denial or are somehow unable to perceive the serious political jeopardy they and the country are in and/or they have no idea what to do about it and/or lack the courage to try. They just hunker down in their foxholes and hope it all goes away.

    The second theory, call it 'too clever by half' says that they are perfectly aware of the extreme power grab, but believe there will be a heavy political price to pay for dismantling all the checks and balances in the system. They are also aware that as expert as Republicans are at marketing, they are incompetent at governing. Their idea of making policy is to invite lobbyists in to write bills for them which they stamp into law, or dancing a jig every time quasi-religious extremists snap their fingers. This will please a small number of people, but eventually cause so much pain for the vast majority that no amount of marketing will be able to make up for it. At that point Republicans will be swept from power for another few decades (or however long it takes collective memories to fade), with Democrats inheriting all the unchecked power the Republicans paid the price for grabbing.

    So you have your choice. Either Democrats are unable stop the harm Bush and his party are doing to the nation and the world, or they are willing to let it happen for their own political benefit. I find myself hoping for the stupid and gutless explanation, but neither is very encouraging. We should also remember that what is unprecedented about the Bush administration is not direction and nature of U.S. foreign policy nor the tendency to accumulate power, but only the extremes to which both have been taken. This is not something that simply switching parties will fix. Change can and will happen if the public demands it, but that is only possible if people are made aware of the problems and know what to demand. That is why the rise of blogs and the success of books like Glenn's are so important. These ideas must be brought into the light and made part of the public discourse. The right wing monologue and conservative monopoly on values and ideas must end.

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  32. Anonymous5:17 PM

    روشن همچنین باافتخار سپیده دم اوایل ( متعلق به ) می توانیدبوسیله مال اوه ،

    تاریک روشن براق گذشته ؟ببینید ( متعلق به ) مال ( به ) در hailed ما

    خاکریزهاما جنگ پرمخاطره ، وسیع چه کسی لخت می شودوستاره های روشن

    همچنین دلاورانه گروه بندی دانش آموزان هم قوه بودیم ؟

    توسطشب ونورخیره کننده قرمزموشک ،بمبهالبریزدرهوا،اثبات

    که پرچممان هنوزآنجابود

    موج زمین آزادوخانه ازشجاع ؟ O ' er راهنوز آن نشان اوه ،

    انجام می دهد

    Here is an Iranian verions of the star spangled banner.... ENJOY!

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  33. Anonymous5:23 PM

    James R, are you denying that there is not a loosely the managed system that channels the discontent that they know is there into politically appropriate channels, promoting individuals and their interests without really touching on the deeper issues that once created vibrant progressive movements across America, including Kansas?

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  34. Anonymous5:28 PM

    Jay, you moron, I say "monkeys" cuz that is what they were, kind of like refering to Bush as "chimpy"

    Gee, if you think the fake band got screwed out of royalties, what about the REAL studio musicians that created the music?

    The point is they were part of a "rip off" that tried to steal the popularity of a real movement.

    Just like the faux "advertise liberally" crowd proclaims themselves to be the "opposition" while systematically denying or censuring the real issues that underlie today's politics.

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  35. Anonymous5:58 PM

    Samizdat.

    An interesting word from a foreign language that has found it's way into our lexicon. Having feared and studied the Soviets for years, the Neocons fear samizdat. They will find that their tendency to become exactly like the very boogeyman they feared most, will be their own undoing. They will never do it here. They couldn't even pull it off in the Soviet Union.

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  36. but kindly directly me to the progessive links about socio-economic issues at FDL and the circle of links....

    Instead of your constant anonymous bitching, why haven’t you provided those links yourself? It would be so easy. A quick link to a blog that covers those issues and has good links to similar blogs.

    If you were really concerned about those issues you would have done that long ago, but instead you constantly whine about Jane at FDL who is “always Fitzmas 24/7”

    What nonsense. Glenn just linked to them on this issue and that has nothing to do with Fitz. They provide valuable legal info to those who follow that issue closely (just like Glenn does on the NSA issue) but they talk about other issues as well, just like Glenn.

    If you want a “labor blog” go here and follow the links.

    Be gone, troll. There are a lot more important issues to discuss than “advertising liberally” or haven’t you ever read Glenn’s posts?

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  37. Anonymous6:12 PM

    Jay C said... Oh, and "anonymous" at 2:00pm: You must really be a gibbering idiot: everyone knows the most famous fake-band on TV were the MONKEES. (And, AFAIK, they're all still bitter, 35 years on, about being diddled out their royalties).

    I think that honor may actually go to Milli Vanilli. Mike Nesmith was an excellent musician and writer in his own right. The practice of using "ringers" in the studio didn't start with the Monkees. Some folks think Bernard Purdie was the drummer on many early Beatle recordings. I happen to know that Ringo did overdub. You can even hear it on Strawberry Fields and Back in the U.S.S.R. Drummers don't usually overdub their parts. That would be mutiple drum tracks recorded multiple times over one another, as opposed to multiple tracks recorded in one take. Drums get the lion's share of tracks, their were only 4 or 8 track recorders back then. Lot's of overdubbing and sound on sound as it was called back then. The other Monkees were not as accomplished musicians as Nesmith and Davy Jones, who had played the lead in the musical production of Oliver Twist when younger. They all made lots of money. It's just that most of their songs were written for them. The songwriter gets the royalties. It's always been that way. Lot's of "real" bands never write their own music. Ever hear of the Ventures? Most studio musicians never write there own music. That's why they get triple scale in the studio, if they are real ringers.

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  38. Anonymous6:14 PM

    Update on the increasing use of National Security Letters.

    The FBI secretly sought information last year on 3,501 U.S. citizens and legal residents from their banks and credit card, telephone and Internet companies without a court's approval, the Justice Department said Friday.
    ...
    The FBI delivered a total of 9,254 NSLs relating to 3,501 people in 2005, according to a report submitted late Friday to Democratic and Republican leaders in the House and Senate.

    ReplyDelete
  39. Anonymous6:21 PM

    Apologies for the OT but I want anonymous "I have a problem with advertising liberally" and Jay C. to knock it off or take it outside...

    Nesmith (releasing pre-Monkees singles as "Michael Blessing") and Tork (part of the folk music scene in Greenwich Village) were both already professional musicians. Dolenz (who starred in the 1950s series Circus Boy) and Jones (who appeared with the cast of Oliver! on The Ed Sullivan Show the night of The Beatles' debut on live American TV) were better known as actors but also had musical and recording experience, with Jones performing in musical theatre in England and in Broadway theatre in New York, and releasing a solo album, and Dolenz singing and playing guitar in Los Angeles area bar bands....


    Supporters and critics of the group agree that the producers and Kirshner had the good taste to use some of the best songwriters of the period, including Neil Diamond, Tommy Boyce and Bobby Hart, Gerry Goffin and Carole King, Harry Nilsson, Barry Mann and Cynthia Weil, as well as using top-ranking Los Angeles session musicians on the records.


    Have a question on anything, (especially music)... wiki.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Monkees

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Monkees

    ReplyDelete
  40. Glenn:

    The latest such obstruction is the administration's invocation of what, prior to the Bush administration, was the rarely invoked "State Secrets Privilege" in order to demand that a federal judge dismiss the lawsuit brought by the libertarian privacy group Electronic Frontier Foundation against AT&T...

    he judicially created "State Secrets Privilege" was first recognized by the Supreme Court in United States v. Reynolds, 345 U.S. 1 (1953)...


    You are being misleading to the point of misrepresentation about this privilege. This privilege was first established by the Supreme Court back in the nineteenth century and has been well established in the federal courts since then.

    As the State v. Reynolds decision noted:

    We think it should be clear that the term "not privileged," as used in Rule 34, refers to "privileges" as that term is understood in the law of evidence. When the Secretary of the Air Force lodged his formal "Claim of Privilege," he attempted therein to invoke the privilege against revealing military secrets, a privilege which is well [345 U.S. 1, 7] established in the law of evidence. 11 The existence of the privilege is conceded by the court below, 12 and, indeed, by the most outspoken critics of governmental claims to privilege. 13

    [ Footnote 11 ] Totten v. United States, 92 U.S. 105, 107 (1875); Firth Sterling Steel Co. v. Bethlehem Steel Co., 199 F. 353 (D.C. E. D. Pa. 1912); Pollen v. Ford Instrument Co., 26 F. Supp. 583 (D.C. E. D. N. Y. 1939); Cresmer v. United States, 9 F. R. D. 203 (D.C. E. D. N. Y. 1949); see Bank Line v. United States, 68 F. Supp. 587 (D.C. S. D. N. Y. 1946), 163 F.2d 133 (C. A. 2d Cir. 1947). 8 Wigmore on Evidence (3d ed.) 2212a, p. 161, and 2378 (g) (5), at pp. 785 et seq.; 1 Greenleaf on Evidence (16th ed.) 250-251; Sanford, Evidentiary Privileges Against the Production of Data Within the Control of Executive Departments, 3 Vanderbilt L. Rev. 73, 74-75 (1949).

    [ Footnote 12 ] 192 F.2d 987, 996.

    [ Footnote 13 ] See Wigmore, op. cit. supra, note 11.


    Unlike the USAF tort suit in Reynolds, bogus lawsuits abusing discovery for the purpose of performing fishing expedition rooting around top secret intelligence programs are exactly the sort of thing which falls under this privilege.

    As for your claim that this privilege is seldom used, your linked Chicago Trib article puts the lie to this claim:

    The Justice Department does not tally the government's use of the privilege. But according to a recent study, the United States has successfully asserted the secrets privilege at least 60 times since the early 1950s and has been stymied five times.

    In fact, this appears to be a routinely used privilege and it is successful well over 90% of the time.

    I hope your book makes a stronger legal argument than this.

    ReplyDelete
  41. Anonymous6:32 PM

    I don't mind if guys go off topic, if they know what they are talking about. All this secrecy stuff is old news to me, but I'm one of the "dirty, smelly hippies" who comes here. I've seen the links to the stories you are posting here since a couple of weeks ago, except for the NSL link namelastchosen just posted. That is about two days old. That's the best thing about Glenn. He really has the focus of a Fitzgerald and can convince the unconvinced and uninformed and truly impartial, while so many here would know much of this stuff already if they bothered to read the "correct" blogs. Glenn seems to make the medicine go down easier for those who lean right or stay in the middle. Glenn would make a hell of a prosecutor. That's what he's doing. Building a case. We are the Grand Jury of public opinion.

    ReplyDelete
  42. Anonymous6:36 PM

    Bart,

    WASHINGTON - President Bush warned Saturday of tough fighting to come and "more days of sacrifice and struggle" in Iraq as April drew to a close as the deadliest month for American forces this year.

    "The enemy is resorting to desperate acts of violence because they know the establishment of democracy in Iraq will be a double defeat for them," Bush said in his weekly radio address as he saluted the emergence of a permanent government.

    "There will be more tough fighting ahead in Iraq and more days of sacrifice and struggle," he cautioned. "Yet, the enemies of freedom have suffered a real blow in recent days, and we have taken great strides on the march to victory."


    Why doesn't Bush know the war is almost won, as you argue. I guess he hopes you book makes a stronger argument. BTW, How is the book coming?

    ReplyDelete
  43. Why doesn't Bush know the war is almost won, as you argue.

    Bush is sticking to his SOP to bad mouth everything and then take credit when it turns out better than he "predicted."

    He does this all the time with deficit and GDP projections.

    He has called this a "long war" from the beginning with drawbacks and problems.

    ReplyDelete
  44. Anonymous6:43 PM

    I must say it is mildly amusing to watch Bart, a bogus libertarian, argue that a lawsuit filed by a libertarian organization is bogus. Whatever happened to frivolous lawsuits? At least they weren't bogus. We all miss them.

    ReplyDelete
  45. Anonymous6:45 PM

    bart said...
    Why doesn't Bush know the war is almost won, as you argue.

    Bush is sticking to his SOP to bad mouth everything and then take credit when it turns out better than he "predicted."


    You mostly do DUI defense in trial, right? What's your batting average, roughly, in trial, not pretrial settlements? You are creative, I'll give you that.

    ReplyDelete
  46. Anonymous6:49 PM

    He has called this a "long war" from the beginning with drawbacks and problems.

    Actually, he has flip-flopped so many times (from the "war is over" to "this war will never be won, never be over" he's not even an ommelette any more, he's just scrambled. The rest of us think he's quiche.

    ReplyDelete
  47. Anonymous6:55 PM

    Jay C:
    BTW, my riposte to Anon @2:00 was because I thought s/he'd made a typo: my mistake: s/he's just a troll (I leave tagging sobriquets like "chimp" and "monkey" to the less-articulate, thank you)


    Real chimps and monkeys have gotten a very bad rap through no fault of their own, but rather from some of their uncles faults and shortcomings.

    ReplyDelete
  48. Anonymous6:57 PM

    Glenn; an excellent explanation! But the thing I fear the most is that the Bush administration's remaining choices are at the critical juncture that Nixon was faced with in the twilight of his presidenct.

    Which can mean that he's actually exposing the US to an increased risk of attack while claiming to do the opposite.

    He knows if the House goes to the Democrats in November, his impeachment becomes a virtual certainty. In his attempts to forestall that, he has an unlikely ally: Osama Bin Laden.

    OBL needs Bush in office to maintain Al Qaida's strength. So if it looks like the House will go Dem, he may launch an attack just before the election to rally voters to GOP incumbents or to delay the elections entirely.

    Such deadly irony. And the best way to insure against that is for the GOP House to impeach him before next Fall, a highly unlikely prospect.

    ReplyDelete
  49. Anonymous said...

    I must say it is mildly amusing to watch Bart, a bogus libertarian, argue that a lawsuit filed by a libertarian organization is bogus.

    I posted here on multiple occasions that I parted ways with the Libertarians after college over national defense when I joined the military and grew up.

    Exactly what is the difference between this alleged "libertarian group" and an al Qaeda spy?

    All of these law suits are bogus because there is not a scintilla of evidence that their clients have been harmed by the government in any way whatsoever. These are vehicles to conduct spying under the guise of discovery.

    ReplyDelete
  50. Anonymous said...

    You mostly do DUI defense in trial, right? What's your batting average, roughly, in trial, not pretrial settlements? You are creative, I'll give you that.

    I have lost two trials out of dozens or all kinds.

    DUIs are interesting cases because they are victimless crimes for the most part and rely upon indirect evidence to prove driving impairment.

    However, my practice is much broader than just DUI and includes criminal and civil defense as well as business law. I have also some background in constitutional motion and appellate work.

    ReplyDelete
  51. Anonymous7:31 PM

    Now that Bart has enlisted, I’ll be taking over for him.

    Now, I know some of you treasonous hate-America Osama-lovers are going to cite The New York Times article about 100,000 families fleeing Iraq to pretend that things are not just peachy keen there – well, as Bart likes to say, I’ll put the lie to that!

    First off, I slap down anyone who quotes the Times as a reliable source, just like Bart did with those who dared quoted the AP the other day. We won’t put up with it. No, sir.

    If you want proof that the Times and AP lie constantly, this expert has all the proof you need. And he quotes this expert as proof that the Times is lying.

    Now, Iraq hasn’t asked for special help dealing with this exodus, so that means that there is no exodus. And besides, just because people move, doesn’t mean that there’s sectarian violence. Shiites and Sunni’s get along famously as Bart proved the other day by pointing out some of them marry each other.

    As Rummy would say, “People move” and just because we see a moving van in front of someone’s house doesn’t mean that we go around “henny penny the sky is falling our neighborhood is overcome with sectarian violence” – “for Gosh’s sakes.”

    Or as another expert put it:

    “If you have to leave your home you are displaced. Period…. Gawd the Times makes me nuts.”

    This is just a New York Times article, and they don’t even have 100 pages of footnotes documenting this just like the AP didn’t cite their sources – so they are just making it up.

    If people are moving in Iraq, it because of the vibrant economy and that mass profits from oils sales have energized the entire economy.

    Phhhht……

    ReplyDelete
  52. Anonymous7:48 PM

    How's your Spanish, Bart? Can you sing the National Anthem in Spanish yet?

    And the news media here only reports the "bad" news... riiight.

    Bart has never seen this stuff... Gulf War I was a cakewalk.

    ReplyDelete
  53. Anonymous7:50 PM

    WOW

    Some get so touchy when you point out the "circle of links" across the faux "advertise liberally" crowd.

    Look, there is no reason to provide alternative links here -- obviously people don't come here for liberal ideas.

    I am glad that some point it out. If people want to create a "brand" stealing the traditions of liberalism, that's there right.

    But they are still lying liars and its worth pointing out - but decide on your own.

    To those that prefer to defend the circle of links - by my guest, you are just showing your alliances.

    ReplyDelete
  54. Anonymous7:55 PM

    Bart, you and I agree on something. I told you I was reasonable and even have strong libertarian leanings in some areas.

    I have lost two trials out of dozens or all kinds.

    DUIs are interesting cases because they are victimless crimes for the most part and rely upon indirect evidence to prove driving impairment.

    However, my practice is much broader than just DUI and includes criminal and civil defense as well as business law. I have also some background in constitutional motion and appellate work.


    DUI cases... If there weren't more pressing matters right now, I'd love to discuss this with you. We'd agree on many of the issues. Perhaps another time. I suspect you know this already, most of us over here on the "other side" are nothing like the depictions your side likes to circulate. As I said, I think you probably know this.

    ReplyDelete
  55. Anonymous7:57 PM

    And congrats on that fine record. I imagine it might be tougher in another state or more dense like the Denver area.

    ReplyDelete
  56. Anonymous8:01 PM

    Look, there is no reason to provide alternative links here -- obviously people don't come here for liberal ideas.

    The constitution was and remains a "liberal" idea. Glenn does provide a place where the left and the right are beginning to talk again, however difficult that has become, and find areas of common ground (that were always there). That is novel in many ways. And a good thing, Martha Stewart.

    ReplyDelete
  57. Anonymous8:07 PM

    Bart: These are vehicles to conduct spying under the guise of discovery.

    Isn't that the Bush argument for illegal spying? And I know the meaning of "discovery" in the legal sense you refer to. It's still the same argument and under the law you are entitled to some discovery in any legal proceeding. Bush is not allowed to violate the law to go on a fishing expedition. let him go to court and do his "discovery" legally.

    ReplyDelete
  58. Anonymous8:14 PM

    My link barrage continues...

    No. 2 interrogation officer charged in Iraq prison abuse

    The Army on Friday announced criminal charges against a military intelligence officer who was second-in-charge of interrogation operations at Abu Ghurayb prison in Iraq, accusing him of cruelty and maltreatment of detainees, dereliction of duty and making false statements.

    Up the chain we go.

    A very interesting story cribbed from an FDL comment.

    Angry cadets riot following drug search

    West Point - Cadets angry over a drug search rioted for more than an hour last week, throwing fireworks and garbage from their barracks in an uproar one officer described as "shameful."

    See also WP.

    ReplyDelete
  59. dread scot; The second theory, call it 'too clever by half' says that they are perfectly aware of the extreme power grab, but believe there will be a heavy political price to pay for dismantling all the checks and balances in the system.

    Now that's a strategy I can live with and have hoped that the Dems are actually smart and patient enough to implement. But imagine my dismay when the Dems do everything possible to disabuse of those hopes.

    First, they give no support--even a hint of support--for Feingold's censure. In fact, the only scent of support comes from a Republican--half-hearted but at least sincere--like Arlen Specter.

    Second, the pitiful spectacle displayed by Dems after Murtha came out with his plan for what I call a "tactical retreat." Instead of the barest support, the Dems run and hide like roaches from light.

    Third, the parasitic rhetoricizing by Biden, Kerry, Clinton and others that doesn't attack the assumptions underlying Bush's war but, instead, accepts it all but says they'd "manage" the war better. Doesn't that sound like Nixon in '68?

    Fourth, as an extension of the last point: during the 2004 election Kerry never rejected the notion of a) pre-emptive wars (a keystone to the Bush doctrine) nor b) rejected the building of bases in Iraq.

    I could add further items, but these--at the moment--come most easily to mind. Still, I hope you're right; maybe the Dems have enough stones to wait out the debacle engineered domestically and overseas by Bushites.

    On the other hand, I believe there' a whole moral dimension to this strategy that has not even been broached. Ie, the fact that Bush's policies are leading to civilian and military casualties whose dimensions will affect generations here and abroad to come.

    ReplyDelete
  60. lastnameL Don't forget the Downing Street memo, covered extensively by the Brit press but nary a peep from the ass-kissing US MSM.

    ReplyDelete
  61. Anonymous8:30 PM

    Some get so touchy when you point out the "circle of links" across the faux "advertise liberally" crowd.


    I'm not even aware of them. I am also smart enough to spot a p"ig in a poke" or a wolf in sheep's clothing, as are most people who gravitate to this blog. While interesting, and I am no stickler for rigid thread top discipline, it is kind of off the beaten path.

    ReplyDelete
  62. Anonymous8:32 PM

    I'm not even aware of them. I am also smart enough to spot a "pig in a poke" or a wolf in sheep's clothing, as are most people who gravitate to this blog. While interesting, and I am no stickler for rigid thread/topic discipline, it is kind of off the beaten path.

    Better.

    ReplyDelete
  63. Anonymous9:45 PM

    All of these law suits are bogus because there is not a scintilla of evidence that their clients have been harmed by the government in any way whatsoever. These are vehicles to conduct spying under the guise of discovery.

    So bart, was that military service KGB or FSB? You seem to have a lot of familiarity with keeping tabs on folks.

    On a serious note, I really don't want a political party that stoops to Swift Boating to have free access to all telecommunications in America. The Administration has demonstrated it is unworthy of such trust. I'm sure they wouldn't have a bit of a problem making sure the GOP stays in power permanently "for our own good".

    And spare me the "they are only listening to al-Queda". An al-Queda member buys a cellphone in Jordan under a false ID - no way to associate the phone number with a known target. Therefore, if they are "listening to al-Queda", they are listening to everybody and deciding who is al-Queda. Trying to follow up those guesses (and they are just guesses) has led the FBI on many wild goose chases, as the FBI reported a couple of months ago.

    I can just imagine that a lot of those false leads are for Democratic party grassroots leaders - nothing like a visit from the suits to throw you off your game. But then hey, I'm sure acceptance of harrassment by the FBI just falls under the "just being a good American" in your book. Anything to save you from the big bad brown folks.

    Too bad the Soviets aren't around anymore - you're great Kommisar material.

    ReplyDelete
  64. Anonymous9:49 PM

    the cynic librarian: Now that's a strategy I can live with and have hoped that the Dems are actually smart and patient enough to implement.

    Hello to the new boss, same as the old boss.. If they are willing to tolerate any amount of harm to the nation and the world, doing nothing to stop it in the expectation of eventual partisan political gain, then they are no better than the R's and do not deserve power. As you noted, Democrats have not denounced the war as bad policy or strategy, only harped on tactical errors. Republicans do not have a monopoly on power grabs or bad policy, and our perverted idea of promoting democracy has us supporting authoritarian regimes in Pakistan and Saudi Arabia while denouncing popular governments in Venezuela and Bolivia. Somewhere along the line the meaning of democracy abroad changed from government by consent of the governed to willing to kiss American ass. That's not new and it's not a Democrat or Republican thing. It's been our foreign policy for a long time, and many of the problems we face today are the unintended consequences of our previous expedient compromises.

    The political price of grabbing power in itself would not be very high if it weren't for all the other failures piling up on top of that. If we weren't mired in a war and the economy was doing great (meaning a rising standard of living for most, not just booming corporate profits and executive pay), Glenn and the rest of us might as well be spitting into a hurricane, because no one would care. It's the multitude of failures combined with the abuse of power and the desperate attempts to cover up everything that will bring a high reckoning.

    In my previous post I said:
    That is why the rise of blogs and the success of books like Glenn's are so important. These ideas must be brought into the light and made part of the public discourse.

    I really should have said "brought *back* into the light". Ideas like the founding principles of our nation and the moral teachings of Christ are not new ideas, but they have been disparaged and displaced out into the far recesses where they can only be mentioned by 'shrill, partisan, Bush-hating moonbats', while respectable Americans revel in an orgy of reactionary zeal, plutocratic avarice, imperialist aggression, apocalyptic mysticism and a theology of hate. Those aren't exactly new ideas either, but they don't deserve to go unchallenged and be conventional wisdom. Conventional wisdom is a very powerful thing. Too many Americans are complacent in the belief that America is above that and 'it could never happen here'. When something is only talked about by 'them libruls', where librul is whatever Rush Limbaugh says it is, then that idea will never merit consideration. The right spent many years working their extremism into mainstream thought, and it isn't going to go away overnight. We need to remind people that when they snear at the word liberal, they are referring to the people who signed the constitution and the declaration of independence.

    ReplyDelete
  65. Anonymous10:01 PM

    Dread Scot said... Too bad the Soviets aren't around anymore - you're great Kommisar material.

    9:45 PM


    With Bart's contorted logic and veering extremism he's bound to end up back where he started and on the wrong side.

    ReplyDelete
  66. Then there's always the Illuminati conspiracy to explain everything:

    The real battle is not between "left" and "right" but the age-old conflict between the super rich who want to monopolize all wealth, and the rest of humanity who seek a modicum to sustain a comfortable life.

    The enemy is not capitalism but monopoly capitalism, not corporations but cartels that strive for the ultimate monopoly, world government. Communism, or state capitalism, is a ruse by which the bankers co opted the collective instincts of mankind and harnessed our idealism to their diabolical agenda.

    The true enemy is not Islam but an ancient Satanic cult gnawing at the heart of Western society, intent on hijacking humanity from its healthy natural path, and enslaving it using sophisticated methods of social control.

    Like the Cold War, the War on Terror is a ruse designed to advance this process.

    ReplyDelete
  67. Anonymous10:51 PM

    ender...

    No reason to make those types of posts - evidently that is not the purpose of being part of the faux "advertise liberally" circle of links.

    So is pointing this out a problem?

    Just because you prefer to be a mental midgit doesn't mean that we can't have a discussion about the way both the sides try to limit discussion from the topics that could unite americans.

    Guess it isn't good for self-promotion and creating "brand awareness" for a site.

    It also is a lot more fun to talk about how stupid eveyone else is than have a meaningful dialog about what are the issues that created our political landscape in the future.

    I think I have seen this comment before.... "ender" is a good handle for ya, it definitely sums up which part of the body I think you talk out of.

    ReplyDelete
  68. Anonymous11:00 PM

    WARNING: Any totalitarian sympathaziers in the room should just scroll by this post because believe me, you won't like it .

    Everyone will recognize this source, I am sure. (All the emphasis below is hers.)

    I was in my early teens during the Russian civil war. I lived in a small town that changed hands many times. When it was occupied by the White Army, I almost longer for the return of the Red Army, and vice versa. There was not much difference between them in practice, but there was in theory. The Red Army stood for totalitarian dictatorship and rule by terror. The White Army stood for nothing: repeat: nothing. In answer to the monstrous evil they were fighting, the Whites found nothing better to proclaim than the dustiest, smelliest bromides of the time.

    Does this remind anyone of anything?

    To go on:

    I wondered, even in those years, which is morally worse: evil---or the appeasement of evil, the cowardly evasion that leaves an evil unnamed, unanswered and unchallenged. I was inclined to think that the second is worse, because it makes the first possible. I am certain of it today.

    But in the years of my adolescence, I did not know how rare a virtue intellectual integrity (i.e., the non-evasion of reality) actually is. So I kept waiting for some person or group among the
    Whites to come out with a real political manifesto that would explain and proclaim why one must fight against communism and what one might fight for.

    I knew even then that the "what" was freedom, individual freedom, and (a concept alien to Russia) individual rights.


    *snip*

    In a passive, indifferent way, the majority of the Russian people were behind the White Army: they were not for the Whites, but merely against the Reds: they feared the Red's atrocities. I knew that the Reds' deepest atrocity was intellectual, that the thing which had to be fought-and defeated- was their ideas. But no one answered them. The country's passivity turned to hopeless lethargy as people gave up. The Reds had an incentive, the promise of nationwide looting: they had the leadership and the semi-discipline of a criminal gang: they had an allegedly intellectual program and an allegedly moral justification. The Whites had icons. The Reds won.

    I learned a great deal in the years since. I learned that the concept of individual rights is far, far from self-evident, that most of the world does not grasp it, that the United States grasped it only for a brief historical moment and is now in the process of losing the memory.


    Within ten years of writing the above (1974) she had died and in one way I am sort of glad she never had to witness the defeat of the United States of America, which she loved with a passion, and the victory of the Reds and the Whites. Sorry, I meant the victory of the Republicans and the Democrats.

    Now let's see. What were we talking about? Glenn?

    This highly interesting sentence was also included in her article:

    At a certain point in recent years, I realized with astonishment that the kind of voice and manifesto I had been waiting for was my own. No, this is not a boast; it is an admission of the sort I don't like to make: a complaint. (I don't like self-pity.) I did not want, intend or expect to be the only philosophical defender of man's rights. But if I am, I am. And, dear reader, if I am giving you the kind of intellectual ammunition (and inspiration) I had so desperately waited to hear in my youth, I'm glad. I can say that I know how you feel.

    Byron York? Are you out there?

    ReplyDelete
  69. Anonymous11:01 PM

    "State Secrets Privilege"

    Why does this instantly make me think of "Double Secret Probation"?

    ReplyDelete
  70. Anonymous11:06 PM

    Once again, Glenn has chosen a deeply relevant topic and discusses not in a purely left- or right-wing partisan fashion. Rather he engages the topic on its merits, stakes a objective-argued position (often with supporting links), and welcomes comments and argument.

    Would that some commentators here might emulate the example.

    I'd like to nudge the discussion further by asking this: is there are an actual argument to be made for *greater* secrecy today than there was, say, prior to 9/11?

    Forget for a moment who sits in the White House and all that this Administration has done to date (*very* difficult, I know, but bear with me). We have had it quite graphically displayed to us what Al Qaeda and its fellows are capable of accomplishing with sufficient time and preparation.

    Can it be argued that greater care can and should be taken, as simple common sense might dictate, in securing data that might prove of use to the planning and execution of future attacks?

    Of course this immediately begs the question: is an environment with a 'high' wall of official secrecy either healthy or even desireable for our society?

    Again, forget who is in the White House *right now* and what they've done; I ask you just consider the issue in isolation. Could the argument be made?

    I'm going to let this simmer for a bit and let whoever cares to pick it up before offering my own opinions.

    ReplyDelete
  71. Anonymous11:11 PM

    is there are an actual argument to be made for *greater* secrecy today than there was, say, prior to 9/11?

    There is actually no need to when we can limit the range of discussdion and distill it into two sides that are based on the brand choices you make or which circle of links you refer to.

    Ain't it beautifl or what! In many ways, an even better distraction for the masses than the major professional sports.

    At least, it is for those that are so arrogant and narcissistic as to think that the minor decisions they make on the minor issues of the day matter.

    ReplyDelete
  72. Anonymous11:13 PM

    Funny you should say bad things about ender, Mr. Anonymous - I thought he was being much too kind, myself.

    Two things come to mind:

    1) you are ordering a sandwich in a hardware store, and then being pissy because no one shares your outrage.

    Dude, go to a blog that discussess the stuff you want to discuss. Glenn is a lawyer, he does law analysis. If that's not your cup of tea, fine, go to a blog that oriented toward your interests.

    2) You are worried about bases on Neptune when we haven't gotten space travel back yet.

    All the wonderful progressive planning in the world will mean exactly diddly-squat unless there is a mechanism to enact. Right now the very identity of America is at stake, with a real danger of "the city on the hill" becoming just another thug empire. I think the law is the only way out at this point - that's why I am at this blog. Again, if you don't think so fine, go elsewhere.

    But again, I think ender is too kind. Personally I believe you are a concern troll.

    ReplyDelete
  73. Anonymous11:21 PM

    In the process of trying to wade through the list of arguments regarding the NSA, I was surprised to see this by Glenn.....

    Newspapers should absolutely include columns defending Bush's NSA eavesdropping program. But these columns are not that. This is just out-and-out lying. Nobody has been arguing that the Government should not eavesdrop on Al Qaeda, and yet these columns, with transparent falsity, claim that that is the position of Bush opponents on this issue.
    http://glenngreenwald.blogspot.com/2006/01/if-this-isnt-lying-what-is-it.html

    The consistent theme of course, is that Bush is breaking the law. In fact, an amazing amount of energy is being spent to document the legal basis for that allegation. But...if there is no argument that the Government shouldn't eavesdrop on Al Qaeda, why isn't any of this energy expended to find a legal remedy to the problem? The only logical answer I can see, is that bashing Bush is more important than identifying terrorists. It's a shame that such expertise is being used for nothing more than garden variety partisanship.

    ReplyDelete
  74. Anonymous11:30 PM

    Let's see, Mr. Concern Troll II aka Shooter242.

    1) the President breaking the law is a very bad thing

    2) there is a legal remedy - it's called a warrant

    3) the wiretapping puts way, way too much power for any single individual to have, Democrat or Republican. That's not what the Founders of this country had in mind. If we need to change that, let's have an election.

    I mean, come on, 19 nutjobs get all the breaks their way in 2001 and now the President can listen to any telecommunications in this country? (not that any President couldn't before since about the mid-80s, but President Bush is saying he *needs* to and it's legal).

    Talk about the terrorists winning!

    ReplyDelete
  75. Anonymous11:34 PM

    1) you are ordering a sandwich in a hardware store, and then being pissy because no one shares your outrage.

    Don't be silly -- the answers to the fundamental problems that are creating the current constitutional crisis will never be discussed here.

    And frankly, I don't give a damn -- glenn, the circle of links crowd, and most of the readers don't give a damn. They are getting what they want and everyone else should just shut up and listen to them -- as if some thing they are directors and if the actors would just play their roles....

    I merely choose to drop some of these comments into the thread -- its important that the hypocracy be kept in front of some.

    What you or anyone chooses to do with it, don't care, none of my business.

    But these comments are just as valid as anything else. If I am seeking the truth, don't expect to find it in the comment sections of the faux "advertise liberally" circle of links.

    The blogosphere may be important, but it is not solving all our problems because most won't discuss the real causes.

    ReplyDelete
  76. Anonymous11:38 PM

    Al Qaeda, why isn't any of this energy expended to find a legal remedy to the problem? The only logical answer I can see, is that bashing Bush is more important than identifying terrorists.

    Excellent point, well said -- or perhaps even better:

    why isn't any of this energy expended to identify the root causes of these problems and create coalitions of support for a political solution

    Perhaps you and I agree on those issues, but at least you are willing to talk about the problems and just jump up on a tiny little soapbox and say, "but if everyone just did what I told them to do..."

    I like the idea of avoiding the "intellectual masterbation" and to talk about real issues, not platitudes and personalities that seem to just promote themselves.

    ReplyDelete
  77. Anonymous11:39 PM

    Shooter:

    You're kidding, right? The legal solution already exists: it's FISA. That's the law Bush is breaking. Are you suggesting that it's partisan hackery to want to apprehend those who break the law?

    Anonymous:

    What 'I' said. Sandwich. Hardware store. I think the economic and 'class' issues you rant about are well worth addressing, but that's not what this blog is about. So do it elsewhere.

    ReplyDelete
  78. Anonymous12:07 AM

    shooter242 said...
    ...why isn't any of this energy expended to find a legal remedy to the problem?

    I for one would love to hear your suggestions for amending FISA or proposing any new legislation to bring the President's eavesdropping programs under the law. I would also like to hear your evidence for how your proposals would cover what we do and don't know about these programs.

    Can you also define what you mean by "the problem."

    angryadvertiseliberallyguy,

    You spend a lot of words talking about not talking about things. If you post a link, I will try to read it. It is ok if you can't post a real link. Just paste the text in the message. That way I will at least have some idea of what the hell you are talking about. You aren't embarassed to take an actual position are you?

    ReplyDelete
  79. Anonymous12:12 AM

    Not that it hasn't been said already, but...

    Shooter -

    Do you realize the contradiction in this statement?

    The consistent theme of course, is that Bush is breaking the law. In fact, an amazing amount of energy is being spent to document the legal basis for that allegation. But...if there is no argument that the Government shouldn't eavesdrop on Al Qaeda, why isn't any of this energy expended to find a legal remedy to the problem?

    You have answered your own question. The major theme of this blog is the President's claim of extra-legal authority to do whatever his holiness deems is proper to fulfill his mission to defend our country from the terrorists. The problem being talked about here is not the eavesdropping, it's the law breaking. You said it yourself.

    To claim that anyone here has ever made the claim that we should not be eavesdropping on al Qaeda is spurious, deceitful. I, and I think I can speak for everyone here (to generalize a little) want the terrorists fought, and apprehended, and brought to justice, and if we ever get our hands on that weasel Osama, (end of generalization, maybe?) I want to see him lit up like a Drive-In Movie Marquee. But I do not want to sell our soul as a country in the process, and I don't think we have to.

    There are plenty of legal and constitutional recourses for the President and the various intelligence agencies to take without having to flagrantly violate the 4th Amendment, and then claim the authority to do so on the basis of a Cartmanesque "Respect Mah Othohritah" defense.

    If there are not, the President could have gone to Congress and requested the necessary authority. Instead, he decided he had it already.

    Oh, wait. He is "The Decider." So he gets to Decide. Or maybe it doesn't work like that...

    ReplyDelete
  80. Anonymous12:20 AM

    LittlePig said...
    2) there is a legal remedy - it's called a warrant
    3) the wiretapping puts way, way too much power for any single individual to have, Democrat or Republican. That's not what the Founders of this country had in mind. If we need to change that, let's have an election.


    James T said...
    You're kidding, right? The legal solution already exists: it's FISA. That's the law Bush is breaking. Are you suggesting that it's partisan hackery to want to apprehend those who break the law?


    Assuming I have this right, one needs to know who the suspect is before a warrant is issued, yes? OTOH the NSA program is designed to scan for possible suspects.
    In short, how do you issue a warrant without knowing who to make it out for? Conversely how does one filter out potential suspects if one is not allowed to look? That's the legal problem we seem to face.

    ReplyDelete
  81. Anonymous12:24 AM

    Actually, in reading that -

    Juxtaposing the "don't want the President to break the law" theme with the "don't want to eavesdrop on al Qaeda" theme as if they were somehow naturally oppositional is a way more dishonest and slimy rhetorical tactic than I gave you credit for at first.

    To imply that someone's problem with the President breaking the law somehow means that they are opposed to trying to catch al Qaeda is kind of like saying that the Freedom Marchers of the Civil Rights Era supported the Soviet Union. I am sure that the Soviet Union made a big deal out of the freedom marches and the Jim Crow laws and the racial unrest here, and were successful in using this as propoganda. Did that make it any less of a pressing, urgent, and necessary issue for those people to face, courageously and forthrightly?

    Breakfast doesn't cause lunch.

    ReplyDelete
  82. Anonymous12:30 AM

    Shooter -

    You investigate. Find probable cause. Get a warrant.

    Are you just trying to irritate me, or do you really believe the things you are writing here? I am not asking this question in jest.

    We have due process in this country to avoid these things. You do not tap everyone's phone calls and then figure out who is a criminal. You figure out who is a criminal and then tap their phones. And, yes, that is a little harder on our law enforcement people than in a police state.

    "Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither." - Ben Franklin

    ReplyDelete
  83. Anonymous12:36 AM

    Bart and shooter,

    You guys seem to spend a lot of time on blogs. You bring up many points. Can you direct us to some other blogs you post regularly on, even some where you find more of a community of interest between yourselves and the regulars there, so we can benefit from the interaction between you and those people who you find closer to your own views?

    Thanks. Looking forward to that info.

    ReplyDelete
  84. Anonymous12:38 AM

    thelastnamechosen, not your monkey!

    Besides, I think it is more important to talk about the circle of links and false proclaimations about liberalism.

    But feel free to disagree...

    Yoko Ono always was happy when her art stimulated positive or negative responses because its real value was to get people to think.

    I am not going to get in a pissing match here, just going to point out the very low quality of links here and the fact that they always go back to the same set of "know-it-alls" that are usually wrong in their analysis and always limit discussion from talking about socio-economic variables.

    If you don't understand that, any links I provide would go over your head anyhow.

    ReplyDelete
  85. Anonymous12:43 AM

    From Senator Clinton, a Lesson in Tactical Bipartisanship

    One by one over the last five years, to team up on specific projects, she has sought out the most conservative of Republicans — many of whom tried to remove her husband from office just two years before she won her seat and derided her candidacy when she stepped into electoral politics. They, in turn, have sought her out.

    --

    Senator Tom Harkin, Democrat of Iowa, said that Mrs. Clinton's alliances with Republicans like Mr. Gingrich, Mr. Lott and Mr. DeLay — all driving forces behind impeachment — "seem a little odd."

    ReplyDelete
  86. Anonymous12:47 AM

    From shooter242 at 12:20AM:

    "In short, how do you issue a warrant without knowing who to make it out for? Conversely how does one filter out potential suspects if one is not allowed to look? That's the legal problem we seem to face."

    Amazingly, you've hit one of the many nails facing us all on the head. I would argue however this isn't so much a 'problem' as it is a Gordian Knot to be untangled.

    I would further argue that FISA (as presently written) is already so loose in standards of evidence and probable cause that there is little to no realistic barrier preventing the government from conducting any surveillance it deems necessary. The fact a warrant can be applied for retroactively only further its freedom of action.

    Should a subject under surveillance be deemed 'innocent' (or whatever term is appropriate), the warrant can still be applied for and granted, thus making the monitoring legal. Its the legal presumption that once this determination is made, the government will close the case.

    The trick of course is ensuring there exists sufficient evidence for a warrant in the first place; hence the current controversy. And given the Administration is proving woefully inadequate at identifying, never mind actually understanding the enemy we face, the outlook is rather bleak.

    Is there a way to untangle this Gordian Knot? Sadly, the Bush Administration appears to have chosen the method used by Alexander the Great: simply cut the knot in half with a sharp sword. Needless to say, the knot was destroyed in the process.

    Hopefully, we will have better luck.

    ReplyDelete
  87. Anonymous12:56 AM

    shooter242 said...
    OTOH the NSA program is designed to scan for possible suspects.

    The administration has denied that your premise is taking place.

    Quoting from the March 24, 2006 letter to the Senate Judiciary majority.

    As General Hayden correctly indicated, the Terrorist Surveillance Program is not a “data-mining” program. He stated that the Terrorist Surveillance Program is not a “drift net out there where we’re soaking up everyone’s communications”; rather, under the Terrorist Surveillance Program, NSA targets for interception “very specific [international] communications” for which, in NSA’s professional judgment, there is probable cause to believe that one of the parties to the communication is a member or agent of al Qaeda or an affiliated terrorist group—people “who want to kill Americans.”

    angryadvertiseliberallyguy,

    Of course you will understand if I come to the conclusion that you actually have nothing to say. Monkey or not. Yoko or not.

    ReplyDelete
  88. Anonymous12:59 AM

    nick said...
    We have due process in this country to avoid these things. You do not tap everyone's phone calls and then figure out who is a criminal. You figure out who is a criminal and then tap their phones. And, yes, that is a little harder on our law enforcement people than in a police state.

    Perhaps you'd like to describe how we determine who the criminal is, with no crime committed, no clues, and no leads? Here we have a technology used by advertisers everyday that can identify traits that may point to persons of interest. It's all well and good to say we should eavesdrop on Al Qaeda, but the actual process requires searching for potential members. How can that be done legally?
    Please keep in mind that reality is not a half-hour TV show. The administration has been blamed for not connecting the dots. What's it going to be? Allowing intelligence gathering or complaining when it isn't done?

    PS your Franklin quote isn't accurate. How about using the real one.

    ReplyDelete
  89. Anonymous1:39 AM

    "Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither." - Ben Franklin

    PS your Franklin quote isn't accurate. How about using the real one.

    Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.

    Essentially very little difference, unless you read Michele Malkin. Real Conservatives don't.

    ReplyDelete
  90. Anonymous1:50 AM

    Ender @ 10:14 PM to angryadvertisefauxliberally guy.

    Excellent post. I commend you for your patience and restraint.

    ReplyDelete
  91. Anonymous1:59 AM

    BTW, Ender you may appreciate this:

    Gangs of America

    The Rise of Corporate Power and the
    Disabling of Democracy


    Free to download in PDF or read online. I highly reccomend it.

    And in case you missed it, that DVD on the SOA may be found here

    DVD on the SOA

    For a donation to BuzzFlash. 5 bucks more than the retail price.

    ReplyDelete
  92. Anonymous2:00 AM

    Shooter -

    oops. the real quote

    Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety
    may have been written by Richard Jackson for whom Ben Franklin was serving as publisher. I did not know that, thanks for pointing it out.

    I still like the quote (in either form), though perhaps it is not quite so forceful if not written by Franklin himself.

    My original point still stands, and I am a little perplexed by your "TV" comment.

    I think the FBI, CIA, NSA, NRO, and many other governmental investigatory agencies every day spend time trying to apprehend criminals, terrorists, ne'er do wells, rapscallions, traitors, spies, scoundrels and all sorts of pond scum by all sorts of constitutional and legally sactioned means and manners. I don't think that any of them actually employs Jack Bauer. And I was not implying that they do.

    My original point, and the one which your post missed, is that no one is implying that they shouldn't be trying to investigate these things. I am neither arrogant nor stupid enough (though I freely admit to being both arrogant and stupid at times) to submit that my thorough readings of the canons of Tom Clancy and W.E.B. Griffin qualifies me to tell the professionals at these agencies how to do their job. But if they are actually claiming that they are unable to do so, your remarks here are the first I have heard about it.

    I am not suggesting that it would not be easier to catch terrorists via this program, merely that it is wrong, and illegal, and unconstitutional, to do so.

    George Bush claims that he has the authority, as CIC, to supercede the laws of the land. The discussion here would take issue with that. I do not think it is necessary to violate the constitution in order to preserve it.

    If I seem to be ducking your suggestion that I make my own suggestions in re: how to investigate, well, I probably am. It is done out of respect and humility, not out of any desire to duck out of the conversation. I am glad to watch "24," but I don't pretend that doing so gives me any insight, whatsoever, in to how a real Counter-Terrorism Unit ought to be run.

    But I don't consider it blindly idealistic either to think that the foremost principles on which this country were founded should absolutely not be tossed aside like wilted lettuce because of some lunatic terrorists.

    ReplyDelete
  93. 1. Don't feed the trolls.

    2. http://www.eff.org/legal/cases/att/ explains very clearly that AT&T is accused of handing its 300,000 gigabyte database of private customer information, Daytona, to the feds. Welcome to the next giant leap for the surveillance society.

    3. Says the EFF: "The public deserves to know about AT&T's illegal program," said EFF Legal Director Cindy Cohn. "In an abundance of caution, we are providing AT&T with an opportunity to explain itself before this material [a declaration by Mark Klein, a retired AT&T telecommunications technician, and several internal AT&T documents... bolstered and explained by the expert opinion of J. Scott Marcus, who served as Senior Advisor for Internet Technology to the FCC] goes on the public docket, but we believe that justice will ultimately require full disclosure."

    Even if the lawsuit is cut off at the knees, it could be the Pentagon Papers all over again. Only now, instead of persuading Senators and newspapers to publish them far and wide, you can just put a torrent up on thepiratebay.org and watch the tracker sneer at takedowns and cease-and-desist orders. Not that I think EFF would do it this way, necessarily; they'd be far more likely to discover a legal way to leak.

    I'm not sure what Bush etc. are trying to do by invoking the state secrets privilege. Buying time until after the midterms, I guess. They're cover-up artists, but I think (hope? the American media are so depressing at times) this will bite them.

    Isn't it telling that this trial had almost no filing before the government stepped in, sure that state secrets will be revealed? Barely a sketch of the evidence has come out: one witness, one expert, and a few internal documents. The government rushes to cry wolf again, and in a way that screams controversy. What did they not want us to know?

    I realize that last question assumes that Bush etc. are more concerned with PR than policy, as I discount the possibility that Bush etc. have legitimate reasons to keep TIA 2.0 under wraps. I think the record on this point is long and convincing, or rather, I would not be in the last throes of shock and awe if someone accomplished the mission of documenting the Bush PR hurricane.

    ReplyDelete
  94. Anonymous2:38 AM

    Colbert Lampoons Bush at White House Correspondents Dinner-- President Does Not Seem Amused

    Also lampooning the press, Colbert complained that he was “surrounded by the liberal media who are destroying this country, except for Fox News. Fox believes in presenting both sides—the president’s side and the vice president’s side." He also reflected on the good old days, when the media was still swallowing the WMD story.

    Addressing the reporters, he said, "You should spend more time with your families, write that novel you've always wanted to write. You know, the one about the fearless reporter who stands up to the administration. You know-- fiction."

    ReplyDelete
  95. Anonymous2:41 AM

    Shooter242 said..

    "In short, how do you issue a warrant without knowing who to make it out for? Conversely how does one filter out potential suspects if one is not allowed to look? That's the legal problem we seem to face."

    The problem with your argument shooter is that without Judicial oversight (a warrant issued by a competent court) and without Congressional oversight (the full House and Senate intelligence committees) the public only has the word of the Excutive branch as to what they are actually doing.

    In other words, they are saying "trust me". When in fact this administration has proven itself one of the most untrustworthy in my lifetime. And of course there is also the problem of future unknown administrations once the precedent has been set.

    So if you are making the argument that this administration should be able to do this, will your argument stand if the next administration is one that you don't trust?

    ReplyDelete
  96. Anonymous2:50 AM

    GreenGuy_WNY said...
    What we need to do is use our collective voice (i.e. votes) to threaten those with the most to lose. Exerting pressure on long-time incumbents to support investigations, articles of impeachment, etc. may serve Americans better than rewarding talking heads for hopping on the bandwagon. Make them put their money where their mouth is now, or "vote the rascals out!" If we wait for November for action, it is unlikely that we will find it.

    Excellent idea.

    Any ideas on how to go about it?


    To anon who finally put up a link. Thanks for the links. I will read that whole book. Looks GREAT!

    That wasn't so hard, was it? Why not say what you think the real root problems are? I'd listen, and I bet I'd even agree with much you'd say. I'd rather read that than your posts about nobody here wanting to talk about the real issues. You might be surprised.

    ReplyDelete
  97. Technical details behind some of the cases cited by Glenn are explained at 27b Stroke 6.

    ReplyDelete
  98. Anonymous3:06 AM

    Secrecy Walls sometimes have holes in them.

    CIA's Goss Drawn Into Hooker Probe?

    Ken Silverstein reports at Harper's blog on the spreading Cunningham-Wade-Wilkes prostitute scandal. He says more lawmakers, past and present, are being investigated. Sounds like he thinks House Intel Chair-turned-CIA Director Porter Goss is one of them.

    ReplyDelete
  99. Anonymous3:19 AM

    Colbert shakes up Bill Kristol over PNAC ties`

    AC, joined the set of the "Colbert Report," and I think was taken off guard right at the outset of the show because he had to answer questions that our media never asks. PNAC envisioned America attacking the Middle East since the middle '90's and for some inexplicable reason (that was a joke) the media never questions him or his members which have lined the walls of Bush's cabinet about PNAC and how it influenced our foreign policy, which led us to attack Iraq.

    Colbert immediately called him on it and Kristol was quite embarrassed talking about it.

    Video-WMP Video-QT

    Colbert: Speaking of thinking alike, you were a member, or are a member of the New Project for the American Century, correct?

    Kristol: I am.

    Colbert: Were or am, am?

    Kristol: Were and am.

    Colbert: How's that project coming?

    Kristol: well. it's..(stammering)

    Colbert: How's the New American Century, looks good to me?

    Kristol: Ahh--I think...hehe yea--I'm speechless..

    Colbert: Really?

    Kristol: Yea...we've sort of...the Project for the New American Century is just a few people..

    Colbert: Come on, it’s a terrific New American Century, right?

    Kristol: Well I think we do OK.

    Colbert: You Rummy Wolfowitz, Cheney, Pearle, Feith, all you guys right?

    Kristol (responds timidly): Well, we fought back after 9/11..

    Just watch as Colbert turns every argument Bill has made about the Iraq war around on his head. As Pac says: "He left Kristol smoldering in ashes."

    "COLBERT: Speaking of thinking alike, you were a member, or are a member of the Project for a New American Century, correct?

    KRISTOL: I am

    COLBERT: Were or am?

    KRISTOL: Were and am.

    COLBERT: How’s that Project coming?

    KRISTOL: Well it’s…

    COLBERT: How’s the New American Century? Looks good to me, right?

    KRISTOL: I think it, I…I’m speechless.

    COLBERT: Really?

    KRISTOL: Yeah, we’ve sort of, the Project for a New American Century, we’re one of the few people…

    COLBERT: Come on, it’s a terrific New American Century, right?

    KRISTOL: Well, I think we’re doing ok.

    COLBERT: You, Rummy, Wolfowitz, Cheney, Pearle, Feith, all you guys, right?

    KRISTOL: Well, we fought back after 9/11 and I’m proud of what we’ve done in Afghanistan and in Iraq, yes.

    COLBERT: Well, this is pre-9/11, you guys had the Project in the 90s?

    KRISTOL: Absolutely, and we thought we should have been fighting back more in the 90s.

    COLBERT: Right, we should have invaded Iraq, you know, then you said.

    KRISTOL: We should have, actually.

    COLBERT: Exactly.

    KRISTOL: If we had finished the job in 1991 it would have been a lot easier.

    COLBERT: A lot of people are bailing on this whole Iraq war idea. But you’re not, right?

    KRISTOL: Correct.

    COLBERT: You’re still onboard?

    KRISTOL: I am onboard.

    COLBERT: The grand experiment?

    KRISTOL: No, it’s not a grand experiment.

    COLBERT: It’s not? It’s a little experiment?

    KRISTOL: No, it’s an unfortunate necessity that you cannot allow dictators to kill their own people and you cannot allow dictators to threaten their neighbors.

    COLBERT: Which dictator do we take down next?

    KRISTOL: Well, I wish we could take down more, actually. You know, it’d be nice to…

    COLBERT: Wait a second, we cannot allow dictators to kill their own people. That’s a very simple statement sir, which I support wholeheartedly. Back it up!

    KRISTOL: I’m with you.

    COLBERT: Who do we go after next? Iran? Come on!

    KRISTOL: I think we may have to take military action against…

    COLBERT: Let’s get some boots on the ground, sir!

    KRISTOL: I wish…we may have to do that. We have to do that in the Sudan.

    COLBERT: Is the military option on the table in Iran?

    KRISTOL: Absolutely, absolutely. And in Sudan.

    COLBERT: Ok. How about the nuclear option in Iran?

    KRISTOL: No, no.

    COLBERT: Come on!

    KRISTOL: No, I differ with you on this.

    COLBERT: The President says…

    KRISTOL: You’re a tougher guy than I am on this.

    COLBERT: I’m a neo-neocon. You guys aren’t tough for me.

    KRISTOL: I’m an anti-nuke neocon and you’re a pro-nuke neocon."

    ReplyDelete
  100. Anonymous3:36 AM

    Belatedly-- Excellent post Glenn.

    Lots of excellent posts in this thread. For some reason I must post links today.

    Cheney exempts his own office from reporting on classified material

    WASHINGTON - As the Bush administration has dramatically accelerated the classification of information as "top secret" or "confidential," one office is refusing to report on its annual activity in classifying documents: the office of Vice President Dick Cheney.

    Also a nice review of Bush administration secrecy.

    CIA puts new gags on its contractors

    According to several former CIA officials affected by the new policy, the rules are intended to suppress criticism of the Bush administration and of the CIA. The officials say the restrictions amount to an unprecedented political "appropriateness" test at odds with earlier CIA policies on outside publishing.

    the cynic librarian,
    Thanks for the 27b Stroke 6 link

    Anonymous,

    Laura Rozen is doing some great work on this at her blog.

    Interesting analysis
    Very funny read

    I want a pen gun and a cuban.

    This whole Cunningham affair got me on the floor with twenty books open when I found out Brent Wilkes connection to World Finance Corporation and the Contra effort.

    This story could get really big, really quick.

    ReplyDelete
  101. Anonymous3:37 AM

    1992. First Draft of a Grand Stragegy,

    PBS

    Deputy Secretary of Defense Paul Wolfowitz has been at the center of Pentagon strategic planning in both Bush administrations. A hawk on the use of U.S. military power, Wolfowitz took the lead in drafting the 1992 Defense Planning Guidance on America's military posture toward the world. The draft said that containment was an old idea, a relic of the cold war. It advocated that America should maintain military strength beyond challenge and use it to preempt provocations from rogue states with weapons of mass destruction. And it stated that, if necessary, the U.S. should be prepared to act alone. Leaked to the press, Wolfowitz's draft was rewritten and softened by then-Secretary of Defense Dick Cheney. Ten years later, many analysts see a strong resemblance between President Bush's 2002 National Security Strategy and Wolfowitz's 1992 draft.

    ReplyDelete
  102. Anonymous3:38 AM

    I haven't read through all the comments, sorry, and I'm not sure of the timing of all of the important actions, but AT&T is now owned by one of it's previous "baby bells" specifically Southwestern Bell, which morphed into SBC before buying AT&T and then using that name in it's billing and advertising. My point being, could the change of hands of the companies and names have some effect on this particular case? I'm thinking along the lines of records management and responsibility as to allowing, if that is what happened (not that I doubt it), the NSA access to records.

    ewo -- please, could you contact David Horowitz and tell him that our universities are infected with A.R. syndrome? Seriously, I actually lived in a former Soviet Republic. Taking one famous person's view of life there would be like saying that Che Guevara represents all Argentines.

    ReplyDelete
  103. The Feral Scholar's advice on all this BS:

    Think!

    If they DID drop a nuke on Iran, and if we didn’t immediately start an open revolt that shut the whole fucking country down, we would deserve everything we get right until the next Zhukov walked his artillery across our own Berlin. We need to be telling them that. Drop a nuke, and we break things. I’ll go on the record right here and right now… modeling it for you… George W. Bush, if your administration drops a nuclear weapon on anyone anywhere, you need to lock me up before you do it. Because at that point, anything except open rebellion against you makes me no better than all the “good Germans.” I will not be your good German.

    Boo! yourself, Georgie.

    Cripes, people! The only power these assholes have is what we continue to collectively grant them.

    Meanwhile…. BACK IN IRAQ, where there is an actual war… we need to keep throwing wave after wave of opposition over them. Build an impeachment movement in the streets. Keep educating people about what is really going on there.

    Second point… Iran’s nukes. This is also a public education responsibility for us, and the media needs to be our first target. Every time those nimrods even suggest that Iran has nukes, is close to getting nukes, or talks about an Iranian nuke-you-ler program without noting boldly that Iran is not within a blue million miles of having a nuclear weapon, then we need to bust them.

    We have to say, loudly and clearly and often, this is just another bullshit story. Not, “Omigod, those mean men are going to nuke Iran!” but — with some authority — “Stop that goddamn lying!”

    Then get back to the business of stopping the real war.

    ReplyDelete
  104. Anonymous3:59 AM

    Glenn Greewald: "It is only a matter of time before it is exposed."

    PHYSICS 911. Public Site

    ReplyDelete
  105. Anonymous4:04 AM

    rollotomasi said...

    "The public is finally coming around to the realization that this administration is like the incompetent employee who makes up for this incompetence by taking short cuts, gaming the system, constantly inflating accomplishments, undercutting/attacking fellow employees who take exception, not taking responsibility/blaming others for mistakes, and lying as necessary to protect/advance position and stature."

    That was in fact what my next point to shooter 242 was going to be. Thanks for making it. It is in fact what Bush has done with the NSA spying. Taken a shortcut. Which IMO is what Bush has done for most of his life.

    After 9/11 he didn't want to do the hard work of really securing our ports and our borders, or the hard work of straightening out our truly horrendous immigration system. So he did what IMO he has always done and simply took a shortcut, figuring that it was much easier to just spy on all of us and catch the bad guys after they were already here than it was to do the hard work mentioned above.

    ReplyDelete
  106. Anonymous4:24 AM

    I also thought tonight that everyone should be made aware of this latest from Bush if you aren't already:

    "Bush Approves Dubai Defense Purchase" By Caren Bohan
    Reuters

    Friday 28 April 2006

    Washington - President George W. Bush approved Dubai's $1.24 billion takeover of Doncasters, a British engineering company with U.S. plants that supply the Pentagon, the White House said on Friday.

    The decision, announced by White House spokesman Scott McClellan, followed a congressional uproar over security fears that scuttled another Dubai state-owned company's plan to acquire operations at major U.S. ports.

    The interagency Committee on Foreign Investments in the United States sent its confidential recommendation on the Dubai takeover of Doncasters to Bush on April 13

    A committee apparently as smart as a big box of rocks.

    "The president this morning accepted the committee's recommendation," McClellan said. "The committee recommended approval of the transaction after closely scrutinizing it and concluding that it would not compromise our national security."

    And a man apparently not as smart as the committee.

    ReplyDelete
  107. Anonymous4:40 AM

    It was pretty obvious from the very beginning that the government would have to invoke the "state secrets" option. With a willing witness* the danger of proceeding with this case was clearly too much even with Bush cousin (V. Walker) presiding over it. Too many things could be exposed.

    I continue to remain skeptical of the idea that the problem with illegal domestic spying, black-bag jobs, neutralizations, or whatever the government is doing theses days can be resolved in courts.

    When it is practically impossible to sue police in this country why would any sane person think the federal government would be any easier target.

    They had more than 200 years to rig the system and it shows, dozens of similar cases are announced each year (ACLU, private parties, etc) only for a vast majority of them to die a sure death some time later in some courtroom. Qualified immunity, state secrets, in-camera, ex-parte proceedings, legal crooks and hooks galore. And former military or Alito like judges willing to bend over in abundance.

    Making it difficult to proceed against the government in courts is not a bad idea, you don't want to cripple your own government. The sense however is that the present system is dangerously one-sided. To the point that the executive enjoys practically foolproof immunity from anything including the right to total secrecy.

    The two cases in Oregon that seem to offer some hope (Mayfield where the government attempt to quash the case by going to the appellate court didn't work, and the Nelson's case where an unheard thing happened recently - the judge demanded some reasons why he should allow ex-parte arguments) are outliers and have little chance of surviving in the long run.

    A far better solution would be to give the Congress the right to take constitutional issues directly to the Supreme Court.

    ------------------

    * Hard to imagine that the security apparatus will let that technician get away with his treachery. And since they can be pretty effective, let's hope that the EFF and their lawyers will not abandon him now.

    ReplyDelete
  108. Anonymous8:50 AM

    daphne said...


    ewo -- please, could you contact
    David Horowitz and tell him that our universities are infected with A.R. syndrome? Seriously, I actually lived in a former Soviet Republic. Taking one famous person's view of life there would be like saying that Che Guevara represents all Argentines.

    3:38 AM


    Thank you, Daphne! Thank you, sincerely, Thank you! And she's not that famous. Most people have never heard of her, and could care less, with good reason.

    ReplyDelete
  109. Anonymous9:22 AM

    Yankeependragon says,
    The trick of course is ensuring there exists sufficient evidence for a warrant in the first place; hence the current controversy. And given the Administration is proving woefully inadequate at identifying, never mind actually understanding the enemy we face, the outlook is rather bleak.

    Actually the trick is even more magical, finding out who deserves to be examined more closely. As I understand all this it's an effort to do exactly what you are complaining is a weakness -- identifying the enemy. As for understanding, there will be none. Religion by definition is irrational. If that religion proscribes the death of onesself and unwilling others as laudable...

    ReplyDelete
  110. Anonymous9:24 AM

    Ayn Rand is awfully monochrome for today's technicolor world.

    ReplyDelete
  111. Anonymous9:26 AM

    Poor pooter,

    He sees enemies everywhere he looks. See a doctor. They have medications that might help.

    ReplyDelete
  112. Anonymous9:28 AM

    Mommy! Mommy! Thers's a commie under my bed!

    ReplyDelete
  113. Anonymous10:15 AM

    Thelastnamechosen says:
    As General Hayden correctly indicated, the Terrorist Surveillance Program is not a “data-mining” program.

    Which brings up the next problem with the issue...what exactly is the nature of the program? We don't know, and discussing it in open forums is not good. Whatever it is, why aren't the briefings of the ranking Democrats sufficient to ward off angst about executive powers?

    Back to my original point... why isn't Congress making the process easier? The major portion of that problem is that Congress can't keep secrets.

    In the end, the essential problem remains, if the left accepts the idea that Al Qaeada should be surveilled, what is the left doing to help?

    ReplyDelete
  114. Anonymous10:27 AM

    Totally OT, but important sad news:

    John K. Galbraith died yesterday at the age of 97. The world lost its greatest living economist (imho). Liberals will miss his eloquent voice in the fight for social justice. May he rest in peace.

    Obituary: http://www.thebostonchannel.com/news/9112014/detail.html

    There are lots of great JKG quotes at Wikipedia, imho this one is fitting for the topic here:
    "People of privilege will always risk their complete destruction rather than surrender any material part of their advantage."

    ReplyDelete
  115. Anonymous10:38 AM

    nick said...
    But I don't consider it blindly idealistic either to think that the foremost principles on which this country were founded should absolutely not be tossed aside like wilted lettuce because of some lunatic terrorists.

    Good post, and I agree with the general sentiment about expanded executive powers. But I return to the original point. If Glenn thinks it's appropriate to surveil Al Qaeda, what's he doing to help out the cause? He obvioualy has legal ability, isn't afraid to work, and I agree that the legalities need to be updated. Sitting around bashing Bush isn't going to feed the cat. I was hoping for better friom him.

    ReplyDelete
  116. Anonymous11:00 AM

    shooter said:
    I'm not a reasonable person, but I play one on TV!

    This "If Bush and the NSA can't break the law, then how can they battle Al Quaeda?" nonsense is both a false dichotomy and beside the point. If breaking FISA is so crucial to espionage, then how did the NSA or CIA ever get anything done inbetween 1967 and the start of Bush's crime spree? And how is it 'bashing' Bush to call attention to, and rail against, his crimes? Does a description or analysis of, say, Enron's crimes constitute a 'bash' of Ken Lay?

    It's not a bash when you're telling the truth.

    ReplyDelete
  117. Anonymous11:09 AM

    How far away are we from the day when:
    1) a Glenn Greenwald piece on the State Secrets Privilege passes through a NSA computer on its way to being posted
    2) the piece is immediately deemed to be a state secret that cannot be made public
    3) the subsequent fate of Glenn Greenwald itself becomes a state secret

    The first reaction to such a comment is bound to be “yes, very amusing, but even in this day and even under this administration, that’s hardly likely to happen”.

    Try telling that to the Reynolds families.

    ReplyDelete
  118. Anonymous11:11 AM

    The State Secrets Privilege is “not a law but a series of legal precedents built on national security… Judges almost never challenge the government's assertion of the privilege..”. But they can , right?

    So is this all we really need? One judgement by one judge with balls, to say that if the privilege is asserted in any case where if the privilege wasn’t asserted and the case went forward, it would have the potential to embarrass the goverment and expose wrongdoing, then the judge in that case cannot accept the privilege without examining the underlying documents.

    And this is what we have no realistic hope of getting anytime soon?

    ReplyDelete
  119. Anonymous said...

    Bart and shooter,

    You guys seem to spend a lot of time on blogs. You bring up many points. Can you direct us to some other blogs you post regularly on, even some where you find more of a community of interest between yourselves and the regulars there, so we can benefit from the interaction between you and those people who you find closer to your own views?


    Actually, I don't spend a lot of time on political blogs. There is work to do and the NFL draft is going on.

    I skim blogs (as I do media) across the spectrum to get an idea about he actual facts behind the news. I would recommend this to everyone here. I have never found a media source or blog without an agenda so you have to look at a cross section to get something approximating the truth.

    As for posting, I only regularly post here and at another private BBS - both dominated by the left viewpoint. I find it boring to be part of a Greek chorus on a blog which matches most of my views. Debating with intelligent people with the opposite viewpoint is more challenging and keeps me sharp. I would also recommend this to you. Be polite, don't engage in juvenile name calling and go cross swords with the right on their blogs.

    ReplyDelete
  120. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

    ReplyDelete
  121. Nuf Said said...

    Hey Bart, Could you explain, again, how the casualties are steadily dropping? The MSM is lying, again, today... I need to hear the truth... Please Bart, tell me what is really happening...

    April's KIA went up from March to around where it was in January, which is about 33% less than when the casualties started to drop.

    The enemy got lucky early in the month and knocked down a chopper and hit a filled vehicle.

    There was no increase in operations which is likely to drive up casualties again. Indeed, we should start withdrawing some of the NG one the Iraqis finish naming their government in the next couple weeks.

    ReplyDelete
  122. Secrecy is the subject of the day in The Chicago Tribune
    The Boston Globe and Merury News

    The Boston Globe’s excellent article points out that many of these signing statements imposing secrecy have nothing to do with national security. For example, “When Bush signed the energy bill, he issued a signing statement declaring that the executive branch could ignore the whistle-blower protections.”

    So having whistle blowers about illegal activities on energy helps Osama? Please. They can’t even pretend that this is about anything other than covering up themselves and their buddies in industry. It’s shameful

    This guy also asks a very interesting question.

    “If all that isn’t a dictatorship, what is?”

    It’s time we starting asking that question.

    ReplyDelete
  123. Anonymous12:05 PM

    james t says:
    "This "If Bush and the NSA can't break the law, then how can they battle Al Quaeda?" nonsense is both a false dichotomy and beside the point.
    Why not something besides your strawman. Try this... How do we battle Al Qaeda without breaking the law? That way it sounds like you're actually interested in the welfare of the country rather than making political points.

    If breaking FISA is so crucial to espionage, then how did the NSA or CIA ever get anything done inbetween 1967 and the start of Bush's crime spree? And how is it 'bashing' Bush to call attention to, and rail against, his crimes?
    Gee, there's no political axe to grind here is there? Strawman is a busy guy around your house I see.
    First, I'd be willing to bet a dollar that you were on the frontlines complaining about faulty intel, and simultaneously making it more difficult for intell to be gathered. A lose-lose for the intelligence agencies is a win-win for some political people. Tsk.
    As for Bush's "crimes", I think the presumption of innocence is still our general philosophy, I have little doubt that there is nothing about Bush that you don't find criminal. Vague generalities don't feed the dog.

    ReplyDelete
  124. Anonymous1:21 PM

    Shooter - if no crime has been committed, then there is no criminal. I know, they may still be scary Muslims, but that doesn't make them criminals. (Conspiracy is still a crime, but you need to grow up and come out from under the bed.)

    The problem is that Congress can't fix the problem by changing the laws - the Bush administration refers to FISA as a "tool" they'll use when they feel like it. The issue is the administration's expressed and explicit intention to secretly ignore the law whenever it chooses. Congress would have definitely changed the FISA law to more closely fit reasonable needs - if the Administration had requested it. They didn't, even years later. Even now, actually.

    You can argue that Congress has unconstitutionally restricted the executive branch - I don't agree, but the argument can be made. The administration's defense is "If you don't like it, vote us out." However, that philosophy doesn't work if the illegal programs are secret - if he feels that Congress done him wrong, Bush should have the cojones to fight it out.

    You're right, we don't know what the program is - and whether or not it includes purely domestic conversations between American citizens. The briefings to Republican members of Congress - like Arlen Specter - don't actually tell them what the program is, either. Plus, the briefings don't include lawyers or technical experts, who could help the ranking Democrats determine what was going on and whether it was legal.

    The NYT reported that the NSA program was spinning off thousands of leads to the FBI that didn't pan out - and that's a leak that didn't come through Congress, I bet. From the indications we've seen, this program is wasting resources and not solving problems.

    Fundamentally, this country is not in as much danger from Islamist terrorists as it was from the Soviet Union during the Cold War, and people need to get some perspective and backbone on the issues. What's going on is a power grab, not an attempt to defend the country.

    ReplyDelete
  125. Anonymous1:27 PM

    Daphne,

    Please explain your point about someone telling David Horowitz that AR is alive on college campuses. I am sure he already knows that which is why he spends the majority of his time trying to squash and twist her ideas and substitute them with his (and those of his "Masters") own.

    For the best article on racism ever written and one that is eerily prescient about America in 2006, I invite you and all to read some extracts from her brilliant essay Racism.

    David Horowitz is just another one of those "intellectual", Maoist Communists who put another label (neo-con) on his beliefs when he deemed it expedient for him to do so.

    Breaking with his parents, who were members of Communist Party USA, he joined the New Left and called himself a Marxist.

    In 2004 he launched Discover the Networks, a conservative watchdog project that monitors funding for alleged U.S. leftists, communists, socialists, Arab terrorists, and others whom he labels "extremist." Part of the motivation for Discover the Networks is Horowitz's view that leftist individuals and groups support (whether consciously or not) Islamic terrorism, and thus require ongoing scrutiny.

    His most recent book, The Professors: The 101 Most Dangerous Academics in America (Regnery Publishing, 2006), names 101 professors at universities in the United States.... In the first weekend of March, 2006, Horowitz appeared on television to accuse 50,000 (one in eight) U.S. professors of "identify[ing] with terrorists." Horowitz claims, on TV, "50,000 professors" in U.S. "identify with terrorists."


    One of the most striking differences between Horowitz and AR (other than the fact that they apparently share no single thought in common) is on the subject of racism.

    Excerpts from AR's "Racism":

    Racism is the lowest, most crudely primitive form of collectivism. It is the notion of ascribing moral, social or political significance to a man's genetic lineage -- the notion that a man's intellectual and characterological traits are produced and transmitted by his internal body chemistry. Which means, in practice, that a man is to be judged, not by his own character and actions, but by the characters and actions of a collective of ancestors.

    Racism claims that the content of a man's mind (not his cognitive apparatus, but its content) is inherited; that a man's convictions, values and character are determined before he is born, by physical forces beyond his control. This is the caveman's version of the doctrine of innate ideas -- or of inherited knowledge -- which has been thoroughly refuted by philosophy and science. Racism is a doctrine of, by and for brutes. It is a barnyard or stock-farm version of collectivism, appropriate to a mentality that differentiates between various breeds of anmials, but not between animals and men.

    Like every form of determinism, racism invalidates the specific attribute which distinguishes man from all other living species: his rational faculty. Racism negates two aspects of man's life: reason and choice, or mind and morality, replacing them with chemical predestination.

    The respectable family that supports worthless relatives or covers up their crimes in order to "protect the family name" (as if the moral stature of one man could be damaged by the actions of another) -- the bum who boasts that his great-grandfather was an empire-builder, or the small-town spinster who boasts that her maternal great-uncle was a state senator and her third-cousin gave a concert at Carnegie Hall (as if the achievements of one man could rub off on the mediocrity of another) -- the parents who search genealogical trees in order to evaluate their prospective sons-in-law -- the celebrity who starts his autobiography with a detailed account of his family history -- all these are samples of racism, the atavistic manifestations of a doctrine whose full expression is the tribal warfare of prehistorical savages, the wholesale slaughter of Nazi Germany, the atrocities of today's so-called "newly-emerging nations."

    The theory that holds "good blood" and "bad blood" as a moral-intellectual criterion, can lead to nothing but torrents of blood in practice. Brute force is the only avenue of action open to men who regard themselves as mindless aggregates of chemicals.

    Even if it were proved -- which it is not -- that the incidence of men of potentially superior brain power is greater among the members of certain races than among the members of others, it would still tell us nothing about any given individual and it would be irrelevant to one's judgment of him. A genius is a genius, regardless of the number of morons who belong to the same race -- and a moron is a moron, regardless of the number of geniuses who share his racial origin. It is hard to say which is the more outrageous injustice: the claim of Southern racists that a Negro genius should be treated as inferior because his race has "produced" some brutes -- or the claim of a German brute to the status of a superior because his race has "produced" Goethe, Schiller and Brahms.

    The overwhelming majority of racists are men who have earned no sense of personal identity, who can claim no individual achievement or distinction, and who seek the illusion of a "tribal self-esteem" by alleging the inferiority of some other tribe. Observe the hysterical intensity of the Southern racists; observe also that racism is much more prevalent among the poor white trash than among their intellectual betters.

    Historically, racism has always risen or fallen with the rise or fall of collectivism.

    The absolute state is merely an institutionalized form of gang rule, regardless of which particular gang seizes power. And -- since there is no rational justification for such rule, since none has ever been or can ever be offered -- the mystique of racism is a crucial element in every variant of the absolute state.

    The racism of Nazi Germany -- where men had to fill questionnaires about their ancestry for generations back, in order to prove their "Aryan" descent -- has its counterpart in Soviet Russia, where men had to fill similar questionnaires to show that their ancestors had owned no property and thus to prove their "proletarian" descent. The Soviet ideology rest on the notion that men can be conditioned to communism genetically -- that is, that a few generations conditioned by dictatorship will transmit communist ideology to their descendants, who will be communists at birth. The persecution of racial minorities in Soviet Russia, according to the racial descent and whim of any given commissar, is a matter of record; anti-semitism is particularly prevalent -- only the official pogroms are now called "political purges."

    There is only one antidote to racism: the philosophy of individualism and its politico-economic corollary, laissez-faire capitalism.

    No political system can establish universal rationality by law (or by force). But capitalism is the only system that functions in a way which rewards rationality and penalizes all forms of irrationality, including racism.

    A fully free, capitalist system has not yet existed anywhere. When men began to be indoctrinated once more with the notion that the individual possesses no rights, that supremacy, moral authority and unlimited power belong to the group, and that a man has no significance outside his group -- the inevitable consequence was that men began to gravitate toward some group or another, in self-protection, in bewilderment and in subconscious terror. The simplest collective to join, the easiest one to identify -- particularly for people of limited intelligence -- the least demanding form of "belonging" and of "togetherness" is: race.

    It is thus that the theoreticians of collectivism, the "humanitarian" advocates of a "benevolent" absolute state, have led to the rebirth and the new, virulent growth of racism in the 20th century.

    The major victims of such race prejudice as did exist in America were the Negroes....

    Today, that problem is growing worse -- and so is every form of racism. America has become race-conscious in a manner reminiscent of the worst days in the most backward countries of 19th century Europe. The cause is the same: the growth of collectivism and statism.


    So what exactly was your point about David Horowitz and AR?

    AR left Russia in 1925 and never went back. Were you even alive then? If not, how is it you can equate the Russia she describes, from personal experience, with your own much later experiences in a "Soviet" country?

    Bart/scooter. You write that you were only assigned to this one blog?

    Glenn should take that as a compliment.

    Any chance you guy(s) can get a "transfer" and gift some other blogs with your combined wisdom?

    Or do your bosses think this is the blog which poses such a threat to them that your time spent elsewhere would be ill-advised?

    ReplyDelete
  126. Anonymous1:39 PM

    Because Mr. Bush and his associates are habitual felons and confirmed outlaws, no presumption of innocence in any of their acts is possible, ane they have no right whatsoever to protections of any legal system, since they have fouted them all.

    They need to be arrested and all their actions over the last 30 years examined openly with all details for public study and no secrets of any kind allowed. Following this they need be sent to countries they have wronged to be tried for crimes against humanity as examples for all peoples for all time of the consquences of abusing public trust.

    ReplyDelete
  127. Anonymous2:10 PM

    AT & T to Al Qaeda-

    All comunications on American phones and internet lines are switched through systems contolled by Mossad. Mossad also controls, via Rumsfeld's disinformation services, the Bush administration. AT&T is the fall guy, set to take the blame. As long as people only flaunt their outage at AT & T, the real criminals are secure.

    Al Qaeda, or "The Base" was/is a database of impassioned Moslem fighters formed substantially under the auspices of the United States to kick the Soviets out of Afghanistan. Moslems did the fighting, the U.S. and others supplied the stinger missiles, funds, disinforming propaganda, etc. The Americans forgot they had and were oppressing Moslems as much as were the Soviets and Americans thought, in their imperial vanity, Al Quaeda types would not think of repeating the success they had in bringing down the Soviet Union on their other bete-noir, the oppressive imperialistic United States. What dolts! HAHAHA!

    Americans thought their movie-actor president brought down the Soviets. HAHAHA!

    If America stopped exporting terror to Moslem countries, stopped supporting ruthless dictatorships, and stopped funding the crime of the millenium, Isralie imperialism, Al Qaeda would have nothing to rally around.

    Not gonna happen.

    If Americans stopped being afraid of their own shadows and the consequences of thier own actions, (what if they gave terrorism and no one got scared?) there could be no such thing as terrorism. Terrorism is the convenient toy of the Bushist regime and its pseudo religious, money grubbing, Moslem hating backers. Americans eat it up like popcorn. Each American should have to spend a year living in Baghdad helping, mid the flying bullets and bombs, cleaning up the mess they made, or in Afghanistan caring for the babies malformed from the American Uranium bombs and missiles. Americans should get a life.

    What dumb lie will the Americans believe next? No lie is too big for Americans to swollow. They still trust their government, their crooked politicians of both major parties, their steadily debasing paper money, and their economic bubble. The comeuppance will be quite a show!

    ReplyDelete
  128. Anonymous3:26 PM

    A moment to honor John Kenneth Galbraith, and piss on the Ayatollah Rand, the faux cult of the individual, objectivism and the pernicious anarcho-capitalists ho co-opted libertarianism like Hitler co-opted socialism.


    "The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness."

    John Kenneth Galbraith



    Brian (not wanting to be a messiah): "You are all individuals..."
    Crowd (in unison): "We are all individuals..."
    Monty Python's "Life Of Brian"


    ... "extreme capitalism": the obsessive, uncritical penetration of the concept of the market into every aspect of American life, and the attempt to drive out every other institution, including law, art, culture, public education, Social Security, unions, community, you name it. It is the conflation of markets with populism, with democracy, with diversity, with liberty, and with choice---and so the denial of any form of choice that imposes limits on the market. More than that, it is the elimination of these separate concepts from our political discourse, so that we find ourselves looking to the stock market to fund retirement, college education, health care, and having forgotten that in other wealthy and developed societies these are rights, not the contingent outcomes of speculative games.
    James K. Galbraith


    Libertarian policy prescriptions are based on just a few principles, outwardly appealing in their seeming simplicity ...'simple rules for a complex world.' The first ... is that social problems can be resolved by creating a market. Are schools failing? Create a free market in education. Is there pollution or waste of resources? Create a market in the resource or the right to pollute; ... Is there a shortage of human organs for transplants? Let people sell their body parts. Not enough babies for adoption? Allow people to sell their babies ... These principles of 'economic correctness' are increasingly mouthed in the universities and especially in conservative think tanks, but their obvious long-term implications may strike ordinary Americans as horribly cruel. They need to hear this economic gibberish first-hand... Free-market rhetoric is powerfully persuasive only to a certain kind of elite audience; uncoupled from nationalist appeals...it begins to lose its power to motivate general audiences in a positive way.
    James Arnt Aune, "Selling the Free Market"


    Aune goes on to focus closely on the rhetorical practices of several major libertarians: the legal scholar Richard Posner, the novelist and Greenspan mentor Ayn Rand, the philosopher Robert Nozick, and the polemicist Charles Murray. He shows how the "realist style" of economic argument works, combining the definition of any "object, person or relationship as a commodity"; reliance on quasi-logical argument; appeals to irony (via reference to the "inevitable perversity of well-intentioned social programs"); failure to respond to opposing arguments (because "in real science, when fundamental questions are settled, only cranks dispute them"); and perhaps above all, the avoidance of empirical investigation. Once one decodes these devices, cracking the arguments becomes a parlor game, not more difficult than crossword puzzles nor less routine.
    James K. Galbraith, in a review of "Selling the Free Market"


    "'Rugged individualism'... is only a masked attempt to repress and defeat the individual and his individuality.... [It] has inevitably resulted in the crassest class distinctions... [and] has meant all the 'individualism' for the masters, while the people are regimented into a slave caste to serve a handful of self-seeking 'supermen.'"
    Red Emma Speaks, p. 89


    "NAMBLA" logic - an extreme absolutist position which demands that for logical consistencies sake that certain gross crimes be allowed, in order that no one might feel restrained.
    Stirling S. Newberry


    "Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everybody gets busy on the proof."

    "If you feed enough oats to the horse, some will pass through to feed the sparrows." - in relation to trickle-down economics

    "Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite."

    "The only function of economic forecasting is to make astrology look respectable."

    "If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error."

    "It is a well known and very important fact that America's founding fathers did not like taxation without representation. It is a lesser known and equally important fact that they did not much like taxation with representation."

    (Having been asked how he managed to write so much) "I wake up early, have a good breakfast, and begin."

    "Humility is not always compatible with truth."

    "People of privilege will always risk their complete destruction rather than surrender any material part of their advantage."

    "Politics is not the art of the possible. It consists of choosing between the disastrous and the unpalatable."

    John Kenneth Galbraith

    ReplyDelete
  129. Anonymous3:53 PM

    blind lemon chitlin said... For the best article on racism ever written and one that is eerily prescient about America in 2006, I invite you and all to read some extracts from her brilliant essay Racism.

    Bwaaaaahahaha! Yes, leave it to a white woman to tell us all about "racism". I'm sure she has experienced it first hand.

    Keep talking, dumbass. But be warned, you've only got one foot left.

    ReplyDelete
  130. Anonymous3:57 PM

    Eyes Wide Open said...
    Aynonymous Random rulez OK!


    Why don't you get your own blog to shout my name from? The world could sure use another soapbox from which to sell my soap.

    ReplyDelete
  131. Anonymous4:07 PM

    Excerpts from AR's "Racism":

    Racism is the lowest, most crudely primitive form of collectivism.


    Apparently, she had never been to Cuba. What an idiot she always was and always will be. Any person who thinks for him or herself i.e., an individual, can see this. Only idiots find her mildly persuasive. The rest of us don't even find her mildly amusing, except in the same way that all cult leaders are mildly amusing, usually after the have engaged in some coerced mass suicide with their followers after the mother ship failed to arrive on scheduale.

    ReplyDelete
  132. Anonymous4:24 PM

    FACTISM

    The Joyous, Life-Affirming, Benevolent, Liberating, Rational Philosophy of Novelist Arna de Ramm


    By Scott Ryan



    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------



    [ Home → Online writings → THIS PAGE ]



    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    From an alternate universe somewhere. As with the other satirical pieces on this site, most of the humor requires familiarity with Ayn Rand's writings.

    "The open secret from which you have been hiding, and from which your festering sores of rationalization can protect your lurching, empty husks of eye-sockets no longer, is: facts are facts." (Kirk Daggoner's speech in PROMETHEUS SHIRKED)

    "Reality, or facticity, is the fact that facts are facts, that reality is real. The denial of facticity has been hawked for millennia by Caesar and the Shaman -- one of whom seeks to control your body, the other your mind." (Title essay in For Today's Thinking Man)

    "To say that a fact is, is to say that one's mind is capable of grasping it. The open secret mankind has struggled to evade is: to deny the facticity of facts is to deny the efficacy of the mind." (Prolegomena to a Factist Theory of Knowledge)

    "Happiness is a state of non-contradictory fact-recognition." (Kirk Daggoner's speech in PROMETHEUS SHIRKED)

    "The fundamental act of evil possible to the volitional human mind is: to strip itself of its humanity and collapse to a rung even below that of any animal. This self-destruction is accomplished by: the denial of facts." ("The Cognitive Role of Cognition," in The Factist Manifesto)

    "To recognize facts is, epistemologically, to know; to know is, metaphysically, to live. One who denies facts may perhaps be said to be 'alive,' temporarily, in a subhuman sense of the word. But he cannot remain alive for long: his mind, or whatever is left of it, is leading him automatically down the path to self-destruction. In such a mind nothing human remains; to ascribe 'rights' to such an entity, even to grant such a botched monstrosity so much as a moment's consideration, would be a slap in the face, or worse, to any thinking, able, productive man who has ever lived. It would be to look into the open, fearless, questioning, wondering eyes of an intelligent child -- and hurl vitriol into them. As proof, I offer you the spectacle of Kant and Hegel -- or the front page of any newspaper." ("The Factist Ethics," in The Value of Boorishness)

    "Do you now open your rotting mouth to ask what faculty it is that the looters and moochers seek to obliterate even as they depend on it for their continued, sniveling existence? The most obscene sentence you could now utter is: What faculty is it which recognizes facts? The answer, which every moth-eaten mystic among you has struggled to evade, is: the faculty of fact-recognition." (Kirk Daggoner's speech in PROMETHEUS SHIRKED)

    "Do not open your mouth to tell me that your 'need' qualifies as a moral claim." (Kirk Daggoner's speech in PROMETHEUS SHIRKED)

    "Since a 'need,' as such, is not a moral claim and tells one nothing about the facts of reality, the science of ethics cannot be based on 'needs.' The science of ethics properly begins with the fundamental question: why does man need a code of values? Please note that the question is not: what code of values is proper to man? It is: does man need a code of values at all -- and why? And the answer, the open secret hidden for millennia by the default of philosophers, is: in order to live. Man is a being of volitional consciousness, and he needs a code of ethics in order to guide his choices. The science of ethics is, therefore, based on this fundamental need." ("The Factist Ethics," in The Value of Boorishness)

    "Since a 'need,' as such, is not a moral claim and tells one nothing about the facts of reality, the science of ethics cannot import 'needs' directly into political theory unless it calls them something else. The term Factism adopts for this purpose is: rights. According to the Factist ethics, a 'right' is a moral sanction to freedom of action in a social context based on the needs of man's life qua man. If man is to live as man, he needs to use his mind, he needs to be able to exercise his judgment and act on his decisions, it is right that he do what he needs to do in order to live, he has a right to live his life in a rational manner. It follows at once, of course, that man has no 'right' to do anything he does not need to do. What determines the difference? The answer is: context." ("Man's 'Needs'," in The Value of Boorishness)

    "Do not open your mouth to tell me that my right does not qualify as a moral claim." (Kirk Daggoner's speech in PROMETHEUS SHIRKED)

    "Human beings -- and only human beings -- possess the faculty of fact-recognition. The open secret which the second-handers have struggled to evade is: the faculty of fact-recognition is volitional. Human beings must be human by choice -- and they cease to be human if they cease to recognize facts." ("The Factist Ethics," in The Value of Boorishness)

    "When a child's mind first recognizes a fact, the process he wordlessly performs can be expressed in words as: 'I recognize a fact. Therefore, facts are facts and my mind is conscious of them.' This volitional process -- performed automatically by the computerized mechanism of the mind -- is implicit in every fact-recognition, from the simplest observation of the child to the most staggeringly complex system of philosophy. It is a process of: abstraction and consolidation." (Prolegomena to a Factist Theory of Knowledge)

    "Abstraction and consolidation consist of: mentally isolating two facts which have no characteristic(s) in common, and then focusing one's mind on the characteristic(s) they have in common. The resulting idea omits the specific measurements of each separate fact, and includes all their specific measurements -- even those which may not yet be known." (Prolegomena to a Factist Theory of Knowledge)

    "Life is a process of self-stimulating and self-directed movement. Man lives by: thinking. That which is of value to man is determined by: the nature of reality. But man has no values -- until and unless they are chosen by his volitional mind, in full, focused, conscious recognition of the facts of reality and the reality of facts." ("The Factist Ethics," in The Value of Boorishness)

    "A rational man never permits himself to 'blank out' on a single fact of reality, never permits himself to desire even the smallest bit of knowledge that he has not earned solely by his own intellectual effort, never permits a single blemish to mar the unbreached integrity of his faculty of fact-recognition -- since he knows that to do so would be to choose death, and that the searing, agonizing price would be paid by: himself. If one does not choose to recognize facts -- if one chooses to lurch blindly from moment to moment according to the unexamined whims of a subhuman, parasitic, evading, value-destroying rationalizer who does not deserve to exist -- then the Factist ethic has nothing to say to him except: nature will take its course." ("The 'Burden' of Rationality," in The Value of Boorishness)

    "The facts present man with a great many 'musts,' all of the form, 'You must, if --'. But a man who does not choose to live -- i.e. does not choose to recognize facts -- has no values, and no life to value. All values depend on the fundamental and irreducible choice to live. The idea of 'value' contains the idea of 'life'. No values can be values to oneself -- unless one has first used one's volition to make the fundamental and irreducible choice to live, and then performed the acts of abstraction and consolidation necessary to implement one's choice. There are no unchosen values." ("The Ontological vs. the Volitional," in Philosophy: What Of It)

    "The values which are of value to man are the facts of reality -- and so much for the relation between 'ought' and 'is.' Man has no more choice about the values which will be of value to him, than he has about the law of gravitation. Let the chattering monkeys who shriek that values are subjective or relative or dependent on some fundamental and irreducible choice, try to refute gravity by whining that helium balloons can float in midair." ("The Anti-Cognitive Subhuman," in Philosophy: What Of It)

    "That values depend on a fundamental and irreducible act of human choice does not make them dependent on an act of human choice. The proper answer to those who scream, 'Are you some kind of absolutist?' is: 'And how, brother!'" ("How To Live Factually In A Fact-Denying World," in The Value of Boorishness)

    "The most depraved sentence you could now open your mouth to utter is: Why should an egoist care if he survives at the expense of someone else's values? The answer, the open secret which the moth-eaten mystics have hidden from you for millennia, is: no self worthy of being called a 'self' could live in such a manner. So there." (Kirk Daggoner's speech in PROMETHEUS SHIRKED)

    "The social system appropriate for fully human beings, the system which leaves them free to perform volitionally the automatic processes of abstraction and consolidation, the autonomous processes without which no values -- and no valuation -- are possible, is: laissez-faire capitalism. And the full, proper, rational meaning of this term is: health and safety deregulation." ("What Is Capitalism?" in Capitalism: The Slandered Dream)

    "Health and safety deregulation can be imposed only by a single monolithic government with a territorial monopoly on the legal use of force. Big business is America's most persecuted minority; its freedom to pollute cannot safely be entrusted to the arbitrary, non-objective whims of tort and contract law." ("The Nature of Government," in Capitalism: The Slandered Dream)

    "The Factist sense of life can be conveyed by a single sentence: There is no God -- and man is made in His image. But one must also bear the corollary in mind: man must create himself in that image -- or he is not man." ("The Factist Sense of Life," in The New Satan: The Anti-Industrial Health And Safety Regulators)

    "The purpose of literature is the projection of: a moral ideal. Many readers have written to me to tell me that, at times when they were unable to think, they were able to make unthinking decisions merely by projecting to themselves the character of Hardwood Stark from my novel The Wellspring. The image of Stark helped them to achieve a level of cognitive economy which they would have been unable to achieve on their own." ("Art and Propaganda," in The Factist Manifesto)

    "I came here today to say that no one has any right to one moment of my time, to one dime of my money, or to one iota of my attention. I came here to say it, because it needed to be said. The world is perishing in an orgy of not saying it. So here I am, saying it. There: it's said." (Hardwood Stark in The Wellspring)

    "As Stark concluded his speech, every man in the courtroom immediately recognized that Stark's words provided the true foundation of genuine benevolence." (The Wellspring)

    "The denial of facts is merely one example of a fallacy which Miss Arna de Ramm was the first to identify: the fallacy of using an idea to refer to facts while evading recognition of the facts to which the idea refers. Miss Arna de Ramm identified this as the Fallacy of the Bootleg Referent." (Michael de Grandman [b. Moshe Grunbaum], in Who Is Arna de Ramm?)

    "The anti-man, anti-mind, anti-life premises of the parasites are nothing more than one tremendous Fallacy of the Bootleg Referent. To depend on the fact of productivity while also claiming the 'need' for health and safety regulation, is worse than evil: it is a deadly contradiction, and anyone who would espouse it is a stone-cold killer who deserves to be treated as such. The moth-eaten mystics were right, but not in the way they wished you to believe: the open secret of your existence, the fact that facts are facts, is a matter of life and death. Yours -- or theirs." (Kirk Daggoner's speech in PROMETHEUS SHIRKED)

    "At that moment Marga Garrett realized the full horror of the thing before her -- and realized, too, that there had never been any reason to be afraid of it. She had thought of 'evil' as a grand and powerful enemy; now she knew that it was merely a feeble, whining, mewling subhuman louse that skittered away at the first sign of light. In that instant of illumination she, who would have hesitated to step on a cockroach, pulled the trigger and fired a bullet straight into the heart of a fact-denying 'man' who had wanted to exist without the responsibility of being human." (PROMETHEUS SHIRKED)

    "Factism is a consolidated philosophical system. If you reject any part of it, you must reject the whole." (Arna de Ramm in her "Hustler" magazine interview)


    http://home.neo.rr.com/jsryan/writings/factism.html

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  133. Anonymous4:44 PM

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  134. Anonymous7:16 PM

    Great Globe article. Thanks for highlighting it Glenn. It feels really good to finally see some intelligent newspaper reporting for a change.

    ReplyDelete
  135. Anonymous10:57 PM

    Oh great, the Randian shit takes over.

    Meanwhile...

    shooter:
    Don't try pointing any of that 'axe to grind' shit at me, troll-boy. The agencies in question have perfectly legal means of going about their business; they managed quite well with what they had for 34 years, they didn't need Bush to declare open season on the American public. And as for Bush's criminality, I call a crook a crook, as will most of us here (including our gracious host, it should be noted) -- if that's too harsh for your delicate ears, then I suggest you scamper off to red-state or some other Bush-boosting echo chamber, where you can find others who'll pretend to be reasonable while play-debating on whether it's illegal to, y'know, break the law.

    ReplyDelete
  136. Anonymous1:16 AM

    Shooter 242 said

    "Which brings up the next problem with the issue...what exactly is the nature of the program? We don't know, and discussing it in open forums is not good."

    So why are you talking about it for a whole thread, including a description of how it works?

    "Here we have a technology used by advertisers everyday that can identify traits that may point to persons of interest."


    "Whatever it is, why aren't the briefings of the ranking Democrats sufficient to ward off angst about executive powers?"

    Quite simply because the FISA court and the House and Senate intelligence committees were put in place to oversee this exact type of activity.

    Why hasn't the President gone to the FISA court and the committees to tell them what he needs? Why has he tried to hide it from them for the last five years? Why are you through him trying to influence the court of public opinion instead of the committees formed to address this issue?

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