Tuesday, May 09, 2006

Investigations are so very rude and distasteful

(updated below)

There seems to be an emerging consensus among the coddled, effete Beltway media stars that it would be highly improper and uncouth for the Democrats -- should they take over one or both houses of Congress in November -- to launch investigations into the various, thus-far-uninvestigated lawbreaking and corruption scandals surrounding the Bush administration. Regardless of political differences -- which the Beltway media will allow -- the media stars are proclaiming that Democrats should pledge in advance not to engage in any of that nasty investigative business.

After all, subpoenas are mean-spirited, disruptive and genuinely harmful -- they are just very uncivil - and they are not what upstanding Washington needs or deserves. They bring a real ugliness and meanness to the Capital. Say what you will about the Bush administration's competence or ideological views, but we should all agree that they are good guys, well-intentioned with good hearts, and are driven by a core of good faith. They may be wrong sometimes -- sure, that's all well and good to point out -- but they are not corrupt or lawbreakers or anything like that. Only the further fringes would think something so acidic and absurd -- something so extreme. And so it's just wrong, mean and unwarranted to subject administration officials to the unpleasantness of being investigated.

Here is the bloated Guardian of Beltway Civility himself, Tim Russert, expressing his disdain this weekend for investigations and demanding that Nancy Pelosi pledge that Democrats will not puruse them too aggressively if they take over the House (h/t C&L):


MR. RUSSERT: So there would be investigations.

REP. PELOSI: Well, what I told them is we will have an investigation of energy prices. We will have an investigation. Then how that was done...

MR. RUSSERT: How about of the war?

REP. PELOSI: That would be if—I said we’d have hearings on the war. We’d have hearings on the war. But I don’t see us going to a place of an impeachment or all of that.

MR. RUSSERT: Is impeachment off the table?

REP. PELOSI: Well, you never know where the facts take you, but the—for any president. But, but that isn’t what we’re about. What we’re about is going there and, and having high ethical standards, fiscal soundness and a level of civility that brushes away all this fierce partisanship.

MR. RUSSERT: Well, should John Conyers take his Web site down, talking about impeachment?

REP. PELOSI: John Conyers does what he does on his Web site. John Conyers is an enthusiastic advocate. I am the leader. Our caucus will decide where we go. But it’s not—you don’t decide to impeach. You—the facts support something like this, and that’s not where we’re going.

MR. RUSSERT: But the impression, Congresswoman, is that the Democrats take control of Congress it’s payback. They’re going to have the subpoena power...

Whenever journalists like Russert attribute some belief to the passive voice -- the subject-less formulation of "the impression is out there that . . ." -- they are just voicing their own views, and here, Russert's views couldn't be clearer. There is no reason whatsoever to exploit control over the House to conduct investigations into various corruption and lawbreaking scandals. The only possible reason Democrats would do that is a petty, vindictive desire for -- to use Russert's word -- "payback."

It can't possibly be the case that there are real scandals and acts of wrongdoing concealed by the impenetrable wall of secrecy the administration has built and which its zombified allies in Congress and the media have protected. Clearly, the administration has done absolutely nothing which needs to be investigated. That's obvious. The only thing that could motivate anyone to want to investigate the Bush administration is a lowly and uncouth desire for vengeance.

Chris Wallace peddled the same theme last month when questioning Sen. Dick Durbin. After demanding that Durbin pledge in advance not to even entertain the idea of impeaching Bush and Durbin refused, Wallace expressed his outrage: “Are you saying Senator, that you would consider the impeachment of a Commander-in-Chief in time of war." The national media has plainly embraced the idea that Congressional investigations of The President -- based on some sort of raucous and crazed notion that he did something wrong or that he's not a real good guy -- is just out-of-bounds, something that could be designed only to feed the rabid Leftist hatemongers and/or to seek vengeance, and is clearly not something that serious, mainstream, responsible national political figures could endorse.

The ironies here -- not to mention the hypocrisies -- abound. One of the principal reasons why investigations are so desperately needed into the various lawbreaking and corruption scandals is precisely because the media, with rare exception, have profoundly failed in its central function -- to serve as an aggressive adversarial check against the Government.

For the media to take this sort of etiquette-based stance against investigations -- to actually see investigations as some sort of uncouth breach of etiquette, an upsetting disruption (exactly how they saw Stephen Colbert's criticisms of the President) -- is just staggering. The media doesn't exist to do anything other than investigate and exert skepticism over the Government's statements and actions. They barely do that anymore, which is why we know so little about what this administration has done. The media is supposed to be inherently pro-investigation. It's intended to be an investigative body, to subject government conduct to aggressive scrutiny and be devoted to the exposure of information which the Government is attempting to conceal from its citizens. To listen to these media stars effetely condemn investigations as though they're something which only hateful, rabble-rousing radicals would want to pursue tells you all you need to know about how fundamentally broken the national media is.

The reality is that people like Tim Russert and Chris Wallace are so entrenched in the national political Beltway system that it becomes the first source for how they perceive themselves. They are not journalists first. They are national Beltway stars first. As a result, they don't see high government officials as their adversaries because those high government officials are part of the same Beltway elite institutions and are their friends, partners and allies before they are anything else.

Journalists like Russert identify with the political figures they are supposed to be investigating and fighting against more than they identify with anyone else. They see them as their partners, as one of them -- all members of the same Beltway elite institution which is the source of their wealth, their fame, their prestige, their self-esteem. They derive everything that matters to them from that institution, and so that institution is the one that demands their principal allegiance and becomes the principal source of their identities. And while those who are assigned the journalist part in the Beltway Play will go through the motions of playing their roles -- pretending to question political figures aggressively, to disclose secret facts about them, etc. -- they really feel affinity and friendship and affection more than they feel anything else towards them.

That is why they find the idea of mean-spirited investigations so distasteful and wrong. It's one thing to play the role of having political disagreements with someone. Like WWF wrestling, the rules of the game are well-known to everyone and as long as everyone abides by those groundrules, it's all in good fun. They entertain the crowd with their faux conflict and nobody gets hurt. But investigations hurt people. Sometimes, people get accused of criminal behavior! They have to pay for lawyers which can be really expensive. It impacts their lives and can really harm a person's career, so it's out-of-bounds.

Accusing someone of being inept or wrong -- sure, that's all good, clean fun. But prosecutors and subpoenas and accusations of criminal wrongdoing -- that's just nasty. It disrupts the fun and it's unnecessarily mean. Besides, they personally know all the gentlemen and ladies in the Bush administration - they've met their spouses and kids, laughed together at the same jokes, helped their friends and associates get jobs. These are good people, even if they are politically wrong. They are not corrupt and they are not criminals, and it is wrong to treat them as such.

This same dynamic is what explains why Dianne Feinstein would just so suddenly and abruptly -- and pointlessly -- jump into the controversy over the President's appointment of Gen. Hayden to be CIA Director and help the President by declaring her support for Hayden. After I posted about this yesterday, I thought about what would really motivate Feinstein to do that. She's a life-long Democrat; she presumably wants Democrats to take over the Senate in November, if for no other reason than to increase her own influence; and she can't possibly want to help the President out of political difficulties, even though that is clearly the effect of her conduct. So why would she do that?

I think Feinstein gave the real reason why she did it -- she likes Gen. Hayden, and therefore wants to support him. Both of them have been around DC forever. He's a career military bureaucrat who meets all the time with Senators and she's on the Intelligence Committee and is always working on military and foreign affairs matters. To her, he isn't a pro-Cheney military ally or one of the primary culprits in the illegal eavesdropping on Americans (which she claims to find so very "troubling"). No - to Feinstein, Hayden is the nice, upstanding military officer who is part of the same Beltway elite circle as she and her husband are, and she can't fathom that there would be any good reason to do something as mean and aggressive as oppose his new promotion.

Virtually none of these people who play the roles of Democrats or Republicans, or journalists or politicians, are really any of those things. They all have far more in common with one another than they have differences.

I don't think this is unique to those circles -- when I was practicing law, I noticed that even the most passion-driven lawyers eventually come to look at adversarial lawyers and judges (whom they begin by fighting) as their real comrades and allies. They befriend them, end up in the same associations and clubs and parties, and come to view the legal profession as their real home and all those who are a part of it as their real allies.

Advocating on behalf of the client and warring against other lawyers and even the judge is the assigned role, but it's not the real passion. Many of them go through the motions and play the roles of pretending to have principal allegiance to their clients, but the reality is that the clients are viewed as outsiders, props really, and the real allegiance and affection is to the system itself, since it is that system which provides the material wealth, the security, the prestige, etc. It becomes very clubby and the desire to do anything other than be a part of and to protect it disappears for most of them over time. That is what I think happens to most of those national Beltway figures.

This country desperately needs investigations into what the Bush administration has done for the past five years. They have had a frighteningly passive media and a creepily compliant Congress, both of which have almost completely relinquished their oversight and investigative responsibilities. Those failures, combined with the fact that the administration has embraced government secrecy as one of its most passionately held "principles," means that Americans know remarkably little about what our government has done with regard to the most significant matters of the day.

Investigations into the conduct of our political leaders are not gratuitous or mean or lowly. Being informed about what our government has done -- particularly where there are clouds of suspicion and even illegality surrounding that behavior -- is of the highest importance. All investigations do is reveal the truth. Subpoenas are intended to do nothing other than compel the disclosure of information which has been concealed. Democracies need that, particularly after five long years of suffocating secrecy and a lack of any real checks on the presidency.

Democrats should not run away from their intention to investigate but should clearly and unapologetically explain to Americans why investigations and uncovering the truth are so critically important, particularly when it comes to a secrecy-obsessed administration which Americans do not trust or like, even though the Beltway media stars so plainly do.

UPDATE: Swopa at Needlenose has an interesting post, based on the last few columns of the odious Richard Cohen, that expresses a variant of the theme in this post: namely, that those who are admitted members of the "royal court" of D.C. are entitled to great deference and are to be shielded from the angry attacks of the masses -- hence, no angry e-mails to Richard Cohen, no mean jokes to or about The President, no intrusive leak investigations of Karl Rove. But anything done to those not admitted to the the Court is fair game:

If you're King Dubya, or Prince Karl, or even a hanger-on like Sir Richard, anything that discomfits you is worthy of condemnation. But if you're outside that charmed circle -- or, even worse, suffer a "ricochet" because of the actions of someone within it -- then Cohen's message is, "Suck it up, bitch, this is a tough town."Like Colbert and those nasty emailers, Plame and her husband are peasants who are expected to know their place and stay away from the mansion.

The permanent Beltway class unquestionably has come to believe that they are all part of the same elevated, elite enclave. All of their prestige, influence and esteem derive from their position in it, and they protect it, and each other, at all costs. Like all clubs, this one has its set of spoken and unspoken rules. And Membership has its privileges.

Members can take liberties with one another that non-members can never take when addressing Members -- hence the hostility towards non-Member bloggers who don't know their place when addressing Members, outsider comedians who make rude jokes to the President about off-limit topics (such as the President's sad approval ratings), and investigations designed to expose the ruling Members as deceitful and corrupt. Democratic or Republican, liberal or conservative, journaist or politician -- all of it gets subsumed by their principal allegiance to their Beltway club.

198 comments:

  1. Anonymous12:37 PM

    A nitpick about what might just be a typo: WWF = World Wildlife Fund. There hasn't been a "WWF" in pro wrestling for nigh on half a decade now.

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  2. Glenn:

    I found your argument that the press has a distaste for impeachment hearings based on some sort of code of etiquette absolutely hilarious. The press lives for this sort of story and they are baiting the Dems into pushing for hearings.

    Your excerpt of the Russert interview of Pelousi showed that Russert was vigorously pushing Pelousi to get on the record supporting hearings and impeachment.

    The GOP is also baiting the Dems into pushing for impeachment hearings because they think the Dems would pay at the polls in 2006 the way the GOP paid in 1998 after impeaching Clinton. Talk of impeachment stokes the base and turns off independents.

    Let me join in the baiting. For weeks, I have been encouraging you folks to make the NSA Program your lead campaign issue. However, if you aren't stupid enough to bite on that juicy bit of bait, let me now encourage you to campaign on the impeachment of George Bush.

    C'mon, you know you want to do it. Let yourselves go and be true blue Donkeys.

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  3. Anonymous12:57 PM

    Nice theory. But how does that explain the Clinton impeachment?

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  4. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

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  5. I beleive they call the basic maneuver "Hanky-clutching"

    One need only remember the following quote in order to be motivated to tell them to stuff it.

    Conservatives saw the savagery of 9/11 and the attacks and prepared for war, Liberals saw the savagery of the 9/11 attacks and wanted to prepare indictments and offer therapy and understanding for our attackers."

    Karl Rove - June 2005

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  6. A nitpick about what might just be a typo

    Service on Blogger has been horrible this week. Right after I posted this post, it stopped allowing access to the blog (as it has been doing all week), which means the rough draft version of this post (i.e., pre-spell-check or any other corrections) is up, and it can´t be fixed until who knows when. It's like the drunken version of my post.

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  7. Great insight, as always.

    See also Matt Yglesias' explanation for why Republicans on Intelligence Committees oppose Hayden.

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  8. And yet, less than ten years ago, investigations -- based on far less serious allegations -- were so vital, important, even fashionable that these same Beltway pundits couldn't stop talking about them. How is it that only investigations of Republican presidents disrupt the clubby atmosphere?

    I think there's more to it than insiderism, though I grant that that plays a big part.

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  9. Anonymous1:12 PM

    I'm kind of stunned at Nancy Pelosi's response to Tim Russert. I don't think Russert intended it, but it was a softball and she should have been able to hit it out of the park.

    The answer is as simple as "There has been a lack of Congressional oversight in this country for too many years and if the Democratic party gains control of the House we will resume our proper role under the Constitution." Instead we get a weak, standard politician-on-talk-show answer. This is a serious problem in the run up to the election.

    At the heart of it is that the Democrats think they are part of the same society as the rest of the Washington elites, so they don't expect critical questions couched in the kind of inflammatory language that Russert used. This is a case where having principles and standing up for them would be not only the right thing to do but also the politcally smart reaction.

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  10. Anonymous1:13 PM

    Ah, blogger is up and running again.

    A quick but related aside - doesn't this tie in with the whole beltway concept of centrism? You know, make nice and get along and why don't we just split the difference.

    First, isn't this concept automatically problematic when one side, the Republicans, have moved so far to the right that the POLITICAL center is dragged rightward and is no longer aligned with what could be called the ACTUAL center (or the place where the majority of average janes hang their hats). Second, centrism for centrism's sake, particularly within these parameters, is not necessarily a good thing.

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  11. Anonymous1:16 PM

    Seems to me that the incivility argument is an easy one to counter.

    I mean, there's this "oversight role" for the Congress that's written into the Constitution. It's the Congress' *duty* to investigate if there are indications the Executive branch may have done something wrong.

    It is the rubber-stamp Republicans who are acting in an uncivic way right now by not fulfilling their constitutional duty.

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  12. Anonymous1:23 PM

    They are national Beltway stars first. As a result, they don't see high government officials as their adversaries because those high government officials are part of the same Beltway elite institutions and are their friends, partners and allies before they are anything else.

    Glenn, this is certainly true right now. But I think you are missing something. How does it explain the press' behavior during the 1990s? They certainly saw Bill Clinton as their adversary during that time, and were rapidly in favor, not only of every possible category of investigation, but also of impeachment.

    I would modify your thesis a little bit. It seems to me that for the last fifteen years, the press has considered itself "friends, partners and allies" of goverment officials, so long as they are Republicans.

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  13. Glenn, this is certainly true right now. But I think you are missing something. How does it explain the press' behavior during the 1990s? They certainly saw Bill Clinton as their adversary during that time, and were rapidly in favor, not only of every possible category of investigation, but also of impeachment.

    Sorry, I disagree. I don't think that journalists love Republicans and hate Democrats. They are not driven by considerations anywhere near as substantive as those.

    They saw Clinton as an outsider - he was white trash who dragged his lowly, filthy sexual relationships and his greasy, McDonald's addictions through the elegant, elite halls of Beltway power, and he was despised for degrading their elevated circles.

    Bush is aristocracy - with the Grandfather the Senator, the Father the President, the Brother the Governor, the oil wealth. He brings elite honor and dignity back to Washington and national politics, so they feel an affinity and even gratitude towards him. He is one of them.

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  14. Anonymous1:32 PM

    The Hidden Imam has asked my question. How does this explain how the press was willing and anxious to support and promote the Starr investigations, supported Clinton's impeachment wholeheartedly, and was also compliant in ridiculing Gore in 2000?

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  15. Anonymous1:33 PM

    I seem to remember a time--maybe about the time that Congress passed its fateful resolution granting the president the power to build his own war--when the conventional wisdom had it that there would be hell to pay if George W couldn't come up with confirmation of the accusations he was making against Iraq.

    I believe that the conventional wisdom went on to predict that an unsuccessful war would also have dire consequences.

    So we started out recognizing that a mistake that starts a war is a very big mistake. Whe is dim enough to forget that now?

    The only sort of idiot who would question the need for investigation (at the least) following an unprovoked invasion and a failed occupation is one who is trying to influence the process. If these suddenly nervous nellies would take a minute to notice that the Bush adventure has also bankrupted the country, they might rediscover what a journalist is supposed to do: Stop harassing people who want to know what has been hidden, and start digging.

    Anyone who calls himself or herself a journalist should lend a hand. There is a lot to find out.

    As for those who don't pretend to be journalists any more, I'm sure they have all pontificated on impunity at one time or another. Reminding them of their words may not shut them up, but it should put their relevance at the proper level.

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  16. The call for civility is what they always get to when they have no leg to stand on. That's a rule of political fights, close to an admission of culpability.

    As for Feinstein -- she's Mommy who knows best and if the Republicans will only understand that, she'll happily play for their team.

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  17. Anonymous1:46 PM

    The Hidden Imam said...
    Nice theory. But how does that explain the Clinton impeachment?

    Well, there are two responses. One might actually please your lizardoid LGF soul:

    9/11 changed everything, and Clintoon was impeached fer his rottin lyin' ways afore the GWOT. Excellent steely-eyed rocketman Boosh get an eternal free pass. Bart sez yay! and widdles on itself.

    OR

    The utterly corrupt beltway media really hates anyone who even pretends not to be cynical and despise the various underclasses they loathe. Since Clinton and Gore had some real streaks of humanity (cue stupid joke from Bart), the Pampered and Powdered Press Corps really wanted to Bring Them Down. This coupled with the view that Clinton was a jumped-up outsider who didn't know his proper place and should never have been elected (i.e., the Gergen/Quinn position), that also answers your sublimely and transparently troll-bait question.

    Read 'The Hunting of the President,' 'Fools for Scandal,' 'The Clinton Wars,' for a run down on the media and its discontents. Early Somerby is good too.

    Just keep this in mind, Lizard Boy: I wish you ill.

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  18. Anonymous1:48 PM

    When they're defending themselves in the arena of public opinion 6 months before the election you know they're absolutely screwed if real investigations actually occur.

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  19. Anonymous1:48 PM

    Hey, if they haven't done anything wrong, there's nothing to worry about, right?

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  20. I think it's more likely the case that the Democrats calculate that bitter partisan divide -- and the hearings, subpoenas and impeachment would ramp things up considerably -- is not what the country wants and it would only hurt them politically.

    Bush supporters have this bizarre addiction to running around insisting - without ever citing to anything - that the views they have are the same views which "the country" or "most Americans" share. How do you know this?

    When I make statements about what "most Americans" want or what "the country" things, I cite polling data which shows that to be true. On what do you base your claims? When you see polls showing that most Americans dislike and distrust the President, do you tell yourself that this is not really true, that deep down, they still love the President and don't believe any of the accusations against him?

    How do you keep convincing yourself that "the country" thinks what you think even though all evidence negates that belief? These are real questions. I am genuinely interested in understanding how you manage to do that.

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  21. Anonymous1:53 PM

    You say, "Beltway Elite", but I think you could be more specific in describing the clique that Sen. Feinstein implicitly considers herself a part of. She has a specific and personal financial interest in the war. At the very least she should publicly acknowledge a conflict of interest. Even more than their geographical location, the tie that binds the whole group together is having a financial stake in war.

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  22. Anonymous1:55 PM

    This is kind of flimsy. Do you really think Russert & Co. thought this way?

    Yes, read any book on the Clinton era not written by a tool, and you'll quickly see that this is in fact the case. But troll on.

    Plus, although Bush comes from aristocracy, he's been giving all of Washington the middle finger since Day One. I would think that if anything, they'd be motivated for payback.

    Nonsense. Being abused by aristos is exactly what bootlickers like Matthews and Russert crave. And they can laugh about it with their cronies on the Vineyard or over golf. That you don't see this is simply a measure of the depth of your own corruption.

    I think it's more likely the case that the Democrats calculate that bitter partisan divide -- and the hearings, subpoenas and impeachment would ramp things up considerably -- is not what the country wants and it would only hurt them politically.

    Oh. So we don't have a bitter divide in this country busily fueled by Lizards like you? I suspect that you are right on one score: Russert and his ilk, who love feudal aristos and hate real folk, will embrace the meme you're spreading and will make it nigh impossible for any real reform to take place. Which is exactly what you want.

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  23. Anonymous1:56 PM

    It's not payback. The republicans have payed it forward during the Clinton years. Now they collect.

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  24. Anonymous1:59 PM

    There is also the fact that any real investigation would highlight just how a poorly those in the media who have consistently been part of the White House cheering section and rationalized each any action no matter what impact it has had on our country are doing their job.

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  25. Anonymous2:07 PM

    How do you keep convincing yourself that "the country" thinks what you think even though all evidence negates that belief?

    You're off the mark. I said that Democrats likely calculate. I wasn't speaking for myself. And as for Democrats, you yourself have lamented countless times that they aren't paying attention to the polls and are still behaving like it's 2002.

    And as for the merits of what I suggest is their thinking, I'm not sure if polls showing Bush's disapproval translates into public support for two years of subpoenas, hearings and impeachment.

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  26. I'm just remebering just how irrational the atmosphere was in early '03. I still like to cite the Dixie Chicks hysteria as a measure of the "national mood" at the time of the run up to the war.
    The press corps was of course very active in the whole process and everybody was feeling really CHARGED UP about the prospect of going in and kicking Saddam's ass.

    Well now, its the morning after and everyone's feeling a little bit uncomfortable in their skin and not sure what to do with the realization that they cheerled us into a disaster.

    No wonder the press feels that an investigation now would not only be ill advised but just...tacky.

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  27. Anonymous2:15 PM

    Could it be that the PumpkinHeads and the Tweetys of the world are so put off by the thought of investigations because many of the high-profile ones that occured in the 90's were in FACT about payback all along, rife with leaks and acrimony? Perhaps they know that if investigations into BushCo are conducted the way the wingnuts conducted their witch-hunts and (gasp!)THEY get dragged into them, all H-E-doublehockeysticks will break loose...

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  28. Anonymous2:42 PM

    Wow. Glenn, I'm afraid that you are approaching status as a well written version of the Digital Lynch Mob. The left has been howling ever since the Supreme Court ruled 7-2 on the violation of the equal protection clause in 2000 election.

    The sad thing is that the legal vanguard of all this hysteria, is a name leaked that even the special prosecutor has declined to pursue. To make matters worse, apparently there are 5 witnesses to the fact that it was Wilson that outed his wife.

    Apparently you haven't learned anything after your call to arms over "hookergate", turns out to be irrelevant to the real story. Or, was the smear potential the real point rather than the truth? Doesn't it occur to any of you that it is the liberal media bubble that is blinding the left?

    Do you folks really think that most people are interested in voting for the digital version of the KKK? Being part of a large angry mob is not a recommendation for leadership. Being two faced about leakages, is not a recommendation for leadership. Talking down the economy while tax revenues are booming is not a recommendation for leadership. The list of idiocy is long. My favorite is the acclaimed Murtha amendment, that once it was made clear to the public that it was a vote for immediate cessation of activity in Iraq, the Hunter version was voted down 403-3. That, is definitely NOT a recommendation for leadership.

    But hey, if listing a modern day version of the Spanish Inquisition, as a prime goal of the Democratic party is what floats your boat.... go right ahead. It's going to keep Republicans in power for a long, long, time.

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  29. Anonymous2:44 PM

    "Amnesty"

    That is the word the Dems should be using. As in "Why is the administration pushing for amnesty?".

    DEMS - Go on the attack, stop being defensive and get control of the debate!

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  30. Armagednoutahere said...

    Bart said; Your excerpt of the Russert interview of Pelousi showed that Russert was vigorously pushing Pelousi to get on the record supporting hearings and impeachment.

    Your take on this reveals your problem. There's no way this is true. I'm not surprised, but this is a great example of your built-in bias.


    LMAO!

    Dude, did you even read this excerpt?

    Push 1: Since she did not bring this up on her own, ask the question to get Pulousi on the record supporting investigations.

    MR. RUSSERT: So there would be investigations?

    REP. PELOSI: Well, what I told them is we will have an investigation of energy prices. We will have an investigation. Then how that was done...


    Push 2: Don't let Pulousi stop there, get her on the record supporting hearings on the war.

    MR. RUSSERT: How about of the war?

    REP. PELOSI: That would be if—I said we’d have hearings on the war. We’d have hearings on the war. But I don’t see us going to a place of an impeachment or all of that.


    Push 3: Don't let Pulousi tap dance away from impeachment. Pin her down.

    MR. RUSSERT: Is impeachment off the table?

    REP. PELOSI: Well, you never know where the facts take you, but the—for any president. But, but that isn’t what we’re about. What we’re about is going there and, and having high ethical standards, fiscal soundness and a level of civility that brushes away all this fierce partisanship.

    MR. RUSSERT: Well, should John Conyers take his Web site down, talking about impeachment?

    REP. PELOSI: John Conyers does what he does on his Web site. John Conyers is an enthusiastic advocate. I am the leader. Our caucus will decide where we go. But it’s not—you don’t decide to impeach. You—the facts support something like this, and that’s not where we’re going.


    Push 4: Summarize what I wanted Pulousi to say even if she didn't quite say that.

    MR. RUSSERT: But the impression, Congresswoman, is that the Democrats take control of Congress it’s payback. They’re going to have the subpoena power...

    Are you kidding? Russert led this stupid woman down the primrose path toward impeachment hearings.

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  31. Anonymous2:56 PM

    Couple of things come to mind:
    1) in The Boys of Summer Roger Kahn told how after two years covering the Brooklyn Dodgers he was taken off the beat. The newspaper did this as policy feeling that a reporter came to identify with the team too much after a while and would heistate to write badly of it. And here we have people who've been inside the beltway for YEARS and YEARS AND OH GOD YEARS until don't dare face the fact Bush is an incompetent nitwit with a sense of mission and the GOP is overrun with crooks of every possible discription.

    2) An HL Menken quote comes to mind as well "The only way a reporter should look at a politcian is down"

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  32. In general, I agree with your visceral analysis here Glenn. This is certainly true about how the reporters interact on a personal level with the admin. and its minions. I wonder, though, whether we need to differnetiate among those who decide what news gets into the mainstream and those who write or produce that news.

    It seems to me that it's the uppity ups who are nervous about pissing off the admin. They are nervous for several reasons, the most important being that the admin will cut off access to the WH or other executive branch briefing outlets. They have immense control over who, for example, gets to ride the plane with the Pres., who sits where, who's picked to ask questions, who gets what interviews, and so on.

    I agree with your focus on Russert. His reactions are truly telling in their prissiness. As I posted before, former GE CEO Jack Welch tells stories about how he "turned" Russert from a wild-eyed lefty type into a corporate/government yes-man. Russert's apparent outrage over the idea that Dems would even consider impeachment relates to the ignoble motives you describe.

    Yet, it is the economic motives of the corporate media conglomerates that use every means to cajole, bully, and compromise outsider critics that goes a long in explaining why reporters like Russert feel threatened by the airing of laundry that would occur were investigations of the Bush admin's suspicious tactics to take place.

    Were such a scandalous system to be shown for the fetid cesspool it is, the populace would rebel in horror. For it is, by the public's way of thinking, the press that is the guard dog that makes sure that the public interest is protected. That's their job--and the fact that they allowed such a cesspool to accumulate would show that the media have not done their job.

    With people facing daily job insecurity--streamlining, reengineering, and so on--there'd be nothing worse for the press to have revealed than that they are getting paid five and six figure salaries for doing nothing.

    ReplyDelete
  33. But hey, if listing a modern day version of the Spanish Inquisition, as a prime goal of the Democratic party is what floats your boat.... go right ahead. It's going to keep Republicans in power for a long, long, time.

    I'll just go ahead and repeat to you what I said to Hidden Imam, since it applies to you so perfectly:

    Bush supporters have this bizarre addiction to running around insisting - without ever citing to anything - that the views they have are the same views which "the country" or "most Americans" share. How do you know this?

    When I make statements about what "most Americans" want or what "the country" things, I cite polling data which shows that to be true. On what do you base your claims? When you see polls showing that most Americans dislike and distrust the President, do you tell yourself that this is not really true, that deep down, they still love the President and don't believe any of the accusations against him?

    How do you keep convincing yourself that "the country" thinks what you think even though all evidence negates that belief? These are real questions. I am genuinely interested in understanding how you manage to do that.

    If there is anyone who should know what Americans want, it's Bush followers. That's how they got to 31% -- 6 more points to Nixon's resignation level and counting

    ReplyDelete
  34. Glenn writes: "democrats should clearly and unapologetically explain..."

    Oh, god were fucked.

    All kidding aside, I don't want to see a McGovern redux but I think that Feingold has proven himself as the only "national" democrat that can clearly explain why we need deep and decisive investigations into this whitehouse and its congressional sycophants. Harry Reid has consistently disappointed right after he's shown some promise. Boxer has at least signed on to the censure resolution.

    Anyway, what I'm getting at is that the blogosphere has to draft someone capable of speaking "clearly" (just once please) and "unaplogetically" (Feingold is only one I can think of so far), if the blogs do not actively draft those they want to speak for their positions the beltway consultants we've been hearing so much about lately will choose, and we've seen the results over the last four election cycles.

    Who else can we draft?

    ReplyDelete
  35. Anonymous3:01 PM

    Bush is aristocracy - with the Grandfather the Senator, the Father the President, the Brother the Governor, the oil wealth. He brings elite honor and dignity back to Washington and national politics, so they feel an affinity and even gratitude towards him. He is one of them.

    Your post is very interesting, and I’m not entirely sure what to think of your thesis, but I know something has (sea) changed with the media in the last decade or so. While I am convinced, and at some point will demonstrate, that there used to be a bias to the left in the MSM, that is history; when I read Bush-supporting blogs claiming this ‘n that story -– especially about Iraq -- demonstrates “liberal bias,” I truly think they are on drugs. They are mindlessly reciting a mantra whose expiration date has passed – and yes, that is true notwithstanding Rathergate.

    With Fox taking cable news by storm, and the right totally dominating talk radio, the entire media has shuffled to the right. But wrt your observation of why they (outside of Fox, that is no mystery) are so gentle with Bush, I still can’t understand that. These people are cosmopolitan liberals, who simply must be embarrassed by Bush, Frist, Santorum etc. Intelligent Design shoved down the throats of NASA scientists, anti-gay marriage amendments, absurd notions of how children should be instructed about sexuality, anti-intellectualism, bioethics councils from the Dark Ages…I’m the first to bristle at European anti-Americanism, but this stuff is cause for ridicule.

    So, how can liberal, elite reporters be so in love with these populists hayseeds, just because Bush has a pedigree? Not saying you are wrong, I just don’t understand how this could take place, and question that it has.

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  36. Anonymous3:04 PM

    They think since they all bought into the administration's war sales pitch ("only a fool or a Frenchman could think otherwise") that the only reason for doubting it or criticizing Bush after it was proved to be nonsense if partisan perversity; after all, the flyover rubes can't have made up their own minds based on their own examination of the facts. To borrow a phrase from Joe Klein on another, related question: They may not know much about the Iraq War, but they know more about it than anyone who opposes it. These people are simply drunk on their own arrogance.
    I don't know what Feinstein's problem is. I know a lot of people are implying that her husband's company (I don't even know what that is) has made a fortune since the war began, but I really think she just likes being the Dems' resident she-hawk. Chris Matthews takes her oh so very seriously (how sad that anyone would wear that as a badge of honor.)
    As for my own beloved Ken the Ken Doll Salazar, the man who campaigned on holding the administration accountable for the war could get his endorsement of Hayden into the public record fast enough. He's convinced he can seduce the people who didn't vote for him by abandonning those who did. I hope he goes down in flames. I can't think of a single significant issue where he has voted differently than Pete Coors would have done,.

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  37. Anonymous3:07 PM

    The washington elite are all afraid they will be implicated in the great snow job that has been foised upon the American public for the past 5 years and earlier. Their aiding and abetting of the Bush administration and his illegal war and spying has been egregious to say the least. They may be finding they don't want to be mentioned in an unflattering light when history gets recorded.

    Uncivil? Damn right we're uncivil. But we didn't start it. We can lay that at the feet of Newt Gingrich and Rush Limbaugh and it's now coming home to roost. What comes around goes around and now the whiny ass titty babies are all crying foul. Wankers.

    Investigate and impeach Bush? Hell yes, he broke the law and he violated our trust. I say, bring it on! In spades.

    ReplyDelete
  38. Anonymous3:07 PM

    i just wonder why MSM dont want investigations.it would increase news paper sales dramatically.
    makes me wonder what they have to hide also?
    br3n

    ReplyDelete
  39. So, how can liberal, elite reporters be so in love with these populists hayseeds, just because Bush has a pedigree? Not saying you are wrong, I just don’t understand how this could take place, and question that it has.

    I don't think Bush's pedigree is the principal reason they are so deferential to Bush. I think that their place in the Beltway power system is far more important to them than any vague, Joe Klein-like notions of political liberalism they once embraced. The Bush movement has dominated Washington for 6 years now, so if you're a Beltway journalist who wants access to power and wants to curry favor with it, there is only one thing to do - snuggle up to Bush and avoid harsh criticism and especially accusations of corruption. All that will do is get you frozen out.

    Washington journalist are caeerists who are making a lot of money, generating fame, prestige, etc. -- all rewards given to them by the DC power system. The last thing they are going to feel towards the power-brokers of that system is hostility or suspicion. They want to get more entrenched in it, becuase with that comes greater rewards, and the way to get more entrenched in a power system is to curry favor with those in power. That's just basic human behavior.

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  40. Anonymous3:13 PM

    "This is kind of flimsy. Do you really think Russert & Co. thought this way?"

    I think what's missing is that it's not just the Broder-Matthews-Quinn business about "this is our place and they wrecked" attitude. You also have to take into account the collective mid-life crises of all the boomers in the Beltway Media. It's clear that the great regret of Matthews's life is that he joined the Peace Corps instead of the Marine Corps. Not that he wishes he had seen combat, he just wishes he could say he had seen combat. Also, there's the return to religion so many people go through. They may not be full on born again, but they started going back to Church when they had kids. Finally, they are lazy herd creatures, and they'll all follow the alpha bull wildebeest Russert to whatever watering hole or grazing ground he thinks best.

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  41. Anonymous3:20 PM

    The non-technical term for what Glenn describes is "going native"; it's essentially the same process by which, e.g., the Department of Agriculture becomes the main lobbying arm for agribusiness in the executive branch of the federal government.

    Also known as "capture", as in "being captured by..." Game theory models and explains all this quite well.

    I think the press's dislike of Clinton was a big part of the capture mechanism, as in "the enemy of my enemy is my friend." After seven or eight years of friendship, when GWB took over, they tried to change this (let's not forget how unpopular he was on Sept. 10) but then the GWOT came along and it was far easier to go along for the ride than to stand up for what the press's role in a free society really needs to be.

    So here we are.

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  42. Well, the problem with impeaching Bush is that you'd then have Cheney as Pres. No one wants that. (I think his poll numbers hover around 18 percent or something like that.)

    Perhaps the Dems are betting that the Plame outing conspiracy investigation will get Cheney, as there are signs it might.

    If that happens, then Bush appoints a more moderate VP. Then Dems can go after Bush. Problem is, the time-frame does not give you much room to carry thru on an impeachment.c

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  43. Anonymous3:24 PM

    I'll just go ahead and repeat to you what I said to Hidden Imam, since it applies to you so perfectly

    You took the time to return to the topic and even mention my name. Yet, you let slip away a perfect opportunity to acknowledge that your charges against me were misdirected. How disappointing. Where's your etiquette, Glenn?

    ReplyDelete
  44. Anonymous3:25 PM

    I suppose it's too late to have Jennifer put a strike through on the cover of your book and substitute the word Government for President?

    ReplyDelete
  45. Anonymous3:26 PM

    The Hidden Imam said...
    Nice theory. But how does that explain the Clinton impeachment?

    12:57 PM


    Nixon. And Clinton was a Democrat, and the media wasn't and isn't.

    ReplyDelete
  46. >The washington elite are all afraid they will be implicated in the great snow job that has been foised upon the American public for the past 5 years and earlier<

    That is the elephant in the room. The press shares responsibilty for starting the war and are now doing their best to paper it over.

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  47. Anonymous3:28 PM

    No, Paul, there is no America and Versailles dynamic going on.

    When people like you object to a President breaking the law but don't object to an illegal immigrant breaking the law, it's all just one big happy family.

    May Day. Why am I not surprised?

    ReplyDelete
  48. Anonymous3:29 PM

    The last thing they are going to feel towards the power-brokers of that system is hostility or suspicion. They want to get more entrenched in it, because with that comes greater rewards, and the way to get more entrenched in a power system is to curry favor with those in power. That's just basic human behavior.

    But that human behavior was suspended when a McDonald’s fiend and monger of big-haired whores was in the oval office, because he offended their sensibilities? I just sense something is at least incomplete about your over-all explanation.

    The contemporary establishment media is clearly not teeming with modern-day Woodwards and Bernsteins, out to do the Big Gotcha on the president or the GOP, but I am not entirely sure why. That approach certainly can be a career-enhancer, and it is somewhat notorious that Watergate transformed the journo profession to regard that extremely adversarial MO as their ideal, the path to fame and fortune. To the extent that has changed, a satisfactory or complete explanation seems to me yet elusive.

    ReplyDelete
  49. Anonymous3:35 PM

    "The media doesn't exist to do anything other than investigate and exert skepticism over the Government's statements and actions. They barely do that anymore.."

    That's the democracy-centric idealistic view that I wish were the case. The
    "Media" is just a business anymore, mostly entertainment business. Going
    forward, the only hope for a "4th estate" is the "blog world". There will need
    to be organizations spawn from the blog world, such as sunlightfoundation.com.
    Josh Marshall also has a promising business model; but I am not sure if that can
    be generalized without degenerating into entertainment business as well.

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  50. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

    ReplyDelete
  51. Anonymous3:38 PM

    This need to avoid "rudeness and incivility" seems to be the latest meme being perpetrated by the MSM. Richard Cohen's latest column whining about the flood of emails he received in response to his column on Colbert is mostly complaining about how people were swearing, offending his delicate sensibilities! Not to mention the TNR blog's attempt to characterize the left blogosphere as a bunch of angry, irrational zealots with no sense of decorum.

    The media should be ashamed of themselves. Not only because they have better things to do, but also because they're so obvious. It's no surprise that we're now seeing this idea that we should all be "civil" to each other getting some traction among leading media figures. It's just laughable that the press and politicians are so pathetically out of touch - the President has a 31% approval rating. Congress' is in the 20s. Americans could not have signaled more clearly their complete distate for the people in power, and are clearly interested in getting to the bottom of the mess we are in. To have people like Tim Russert telling me an investigation would be rude is insulting and pathetic.

    ReplyDelete
  52. Anonymous3:41 PM

    Donald Rumsfeld and his close collaborator Stephen Cambone have been trying to put as much of the Intelligence Community as possible under the Pentagon thumb

    What's the matter? They didn't think they could get John Yoo pushed through as a new civilian head of the CIA?

    Cambone.

    Yikes. Enuf said.

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  53. Anonymous3:42 PM

    The Hidden Imam said...
    Nice theory. But how does that explain the Clinton impeachment?

    12:57 PM


    I almost forgot.

    Gore and 2000, and probably 2004 and every other election they can get away with has payback for Nixon, too. Nixon's loss to Kennedy in 1960 that is. There is a long institutional memory about these "slights" be they real or imagined. That's the fear at play here. They all know payback is coming, and this time it really is going to be a bitch. It's meant to be. But there is so much more to be paid back for this time. And real crimes and other things of substance. They already know this shit storm will end most of their careers. Good riddance.

    ReplyDelete
  54. Here's one of many possible, logical replies to the following statement earlier in the replies


    "Let me join in the baiting. For weeks, I have been encouraging you folks to make the NSA Program your lead campaign issue. However, if you aren't stupid enough to bite on that juicy bit of bait, let me now encourage you to campaign on the impeachment of George Bush."


    Walking unarmed into a battle of wits usually does the aggressor no good, as the paragraph immediately above shows so clearly.

    But since the challenge-laughable as the claim is-was put out there, I'll bite

    So I'd reply very simply

    Since Dear Leader W likes to declare his fondness for anti-Constitutional executive signing statements, then why doesn't he insist on being as public as possible EVERY time he wishes to play this self-serving power grab?

    It's obvious why W doesn't have the political capital OR courage to call the national press into the Oval Office every time he does one of these signings, because even he's not deluded enough to believe the voters would agree with him if he had enough spine to back up his clear arrogance & blithering incompetence

    I also seem to remember that being "Under Oath" was SUCH an anathema to W & Cheneyburton in testifying before the 9-11 Commission that they testified together-no doubt W & Cheney holding hands tighter than W & His Saudi Superior sometime back-without being sworn, without being under oath and without their testimony being transcribed

    How do we KNOW that ANY of W's Cabinet, Secretaries & Administrators aren't having contact with al-Qaeda or Usama bin Laden, because they say so?

    And we're expected to just take on faith that this President REALLY gives a damn in the least about those unable to make major campaign contributions to W & the GOP?

    Funny, Katrina completely showed that as the political and real-world reality for those who survived the storm, but NOT the President's dithering response to stay on vacation for an additional three days after the storm caused the levees to fail

    And yet, somehow, we're expected to believe that this Administration has an absolute disaster preparedness rescue & relief plan for FEMA when the next hurricane hits the US coastline

    And remember, this plan is in place while New Orleans still looks overwhelmingly the same as it did in the initial aftermath of the storm & the levee failures

    That's what I mean by faith-based intelligence, analysis that pushes whatever view the Administration wants pushed at the tiem, with no facts to back it up in the least

    The standard of faith-based intelligence being enough to condemn Saddam Hussein should be just as applicable to every single one of this Administration's unproven claims of supporting US troops it's sent into battle somehow shows "support" of the troops, at least in the common understanding of the word "support", like oversight of war-profiteers operating Iraq, or deliberately sending US Troops into battle without enough effective body & vehicle armor, and then, even more outrageous, ordering those same underequipped troops NOT to buy their own battle armor W was far too cheap to worry about providing for the invasion & occupation is somehow "supporting" those same troops

    All I see is that W has killed far more US Troops than the previous Administration, cut veterans benefits to reward irresponsible wealthy-targeted tax cuts in a time of war-a first in recorded human history, but not in a good way, W's bankrupted a huge treasury surplus nicely left by the preceding Administration and forfeited the immense goodwill the world felt for the US on September 11 by stripping our freedoms here in the US while killing innocent Iraqi civilian in the name of spreading "peace"

    President Bush Jr is nothing but a draft-dodging, budget-busting ChickenHawk with delusions of grandeur, as shown by his cowardly public silence when it comes to issuing his executive signing statements

    So please tell us Bart, just why the President feels far more comfortable with the Marcel Marceau impersonation when W's far more likely to bluster, blather & bray as it regards his nonexistent competence as any kind of a REAL "War President"?

    The word most often used in any article dealing with the Bush Jr Administration's claims of executive privilege is "quiet"

    It seems if this Administration's claims were as reasonable, clear & aboveboard as Bart implies, the Administration would be willing to trumpet that belief to the High Heavens

    The fact that the President instead tries to attract as little attention with these executive signing statements indicates nothing more than likely criminal wrongdoing

    If the Administration DIDN'T lie regarding the ever-shifting justifications for invading & occupying Iraq, then testifying to that UNDER OATH should be NO problem for those with nothing to hide

    That goes double for W's claim that he can warrantlessly spy on purely domestic communications-there's NO Constitutional provision that gives the President that right, clearly or otherwise stated

    Remember

    "Under Oath" is to President Bush Jr, and the rest of his inner circle as "Sunlight" & "Bleach" are to cockroaches & other vermin

    When the Administration starts insisting on public hearings with it's members being Under Oath regarding the justifications for the Iraq Invasion, Occupation, and when W's willing to trumpet his signing statements as vehemently as he does unsupported claims about having the right to violate the Constitution in order to uphold it, THEN, we'll talk, and then your arguments will have something other than hollow rhetoric behind them

    ReplyDelete
  55. Anonymous3:45 PM

    Eyes Wide Open said...
    No, Paul, there is no America and Versailles dynamic going on.

    When people like you object to a President breaking the law but don't object to an illegal immigrant breaking the law, it's all just one big happy family.

    May Day. Why am I not surprised?

    3:28 PM


    The illegal immigrant contributes to society. The president doesn't. Both are breaking laws, but you have to prioritize. Why don't you toddle off and contribute to society. Go pick some fruit.

    ReplyDelete
  56. Anonymous3:48 PM

    David Byron, I think your analysis re: difference in how the D.C. beltway media reacts to Democrats vs. Republicans is pretty much spot-on. It was the point I was trying to make to Glenn. Again, his theory does not explain the media's treatment of Kerry, nor does it explain the media's failure to despise Delay and others.

    One bone to pick with you, however. You said:

    Surely a simpler explantion is that they are all being paid to shill for the Republican party by their corporate owners who stand to benefit from the Republican corruption? These so-called journalists are paid huge amounts to lie.

    This may be true for the folks at Fox News, but I'm not convinced it holds true for everyone. Perhaps a simpler explanation is that the most of the D.C. media types have been treated like abused spouses for too many years by the Republicans in power. And by this I mean that they have been subjected to a non-stop campaign that alternates between (1) brow-beating and (2) ass-kissing.

    After years of this treatment, these folks have been completely and fully indoctrinated into believing Democrats are scum and Republicans are competent, moral leaders.

    ReplyDelete
  57. You took the time to return to the topic and even mention my name. Yet, you let slip away a perfect opportunity to acknowledge that your charges against me were misdirected. How disappointing. Where's your etiquette, Glenn?


    I can't answer every comment that is directed to me here, even if I wish that I could. But I do read them all and answer the ones that I think need to be answered or in response to which I think I have something worthwhile saying.

    The clear point of your post seemed to be that Democrats had figured out that the country doesn't want investigations - as though it is true. I asked you how you knew that and you said it wasn't necessarily your view, just the view you think Democrats had embraced. Fine - what else is there to say? Nothing that I can see.

    So I then took the point I made to you and re-asked it to someone who clearly was purporting that their views are those shared by most Americans.

    ReplyDelete
  58. hypatia: But that human behavior was suspended when a McDonald’s fiend and monger of big-haired whores was in the oval office, because he offended their sensibilities? I just sense something is at least incomplete about your over-all explanation.

    Clinton, as much I dislike him personally, is a political genius. What many in the press hated was the idea that some bum-fuck hick from boon-dock Arkansas could be so smart.

    I mean, here you had a guy that was just middling class who'd gone to Yale and Oxford, was a Rhodes scholar, and had the backing of some of the biggest dicks on Wall Street.

    Besides, if there's one thing that a liberal hates more than the rich it's the poor redneck seething in impotent rage in his/her nativist superstitions and drinking beer in the trailer park.

    ReplyDelete
  59. Anonymous3:50 PM

    Oh, man, they are soooo gone. As soon as we have an opportunity to get rid of the Feinstein's, Harmon's and Hoyer's in congress we should jump on it. I hope that Lieberman loses the primary and it serves as a wake up call for the rest of them. As for the press, they must be bleeding money. When the hemorrhage becomes too bad for the bean-counters to ignore, Pumpkinhead and Tweety will be on their way out. It's only a matter of time. Can we wait that long?

    ReplyDelete
  60. Anonymous3:50 PM

    Good God Glenn.

    You've got to write another book now.

    Great Post.

    And this resolves the Tim Russert is Bushes bitch arguement over at the Daily Kos the other day.

    ReplyDelete
  61. Anonymous3:53 PM

    Anonymous said...
    Good God Glenn.

    You've got to write another book now.

    Great Post.

    And this resolves the Tim Russert is Bushes bitch arguement over at the Daily Kos the other day.


    That was my first thought. A pre-quel? That argument was academic. Timmeh's loyalties have never been in question.

    different anon.

    ReplyDelete
  62. Anonymous4:00 PM

    Democrats should not run away from their intention to investigate but
    should clearly and unapologetically explain to Americans why investigations and
    uncovering the truth are so critically important, particularly when it comes to
    a secrecy-obsessed administration which Americans do not trust or like, even
    though the Beltway media stars so plainly do.


    Glenn, this may have to be the topic of your next book, or sequel: Are we
    scared of truth? If so, why? Do we not know how to tell truth from falsehood? If
    so, why not? Do we care for truth? Do we understand the concept of truth?

    ReplyDelete
  63. hypatia: With Fox taking cable news by storm, and the right totally dominating talk radio, the entire media has shuffled to the right.

    The Right went on a huge spending spree in the 80s and 90s and bought up much of the media streams. I used to have a map showing just how much of the media is owned by conservative and Rightist interests. In other words, the Right owns the communication outlets and thereby controls what does and what does not get reported.

    People always bring up the bogus issue about how liberal the press corps supposedly is. This might be true at the entry level positions and maybe even the journalists, but upper management is decidedly right-wing. When the owner of a newspaper is conservative and uses that position to set editorial policy, you have to reflect that policy or you stagnate in your job.

    I once had a short discussion with a recently retired national news editor for the Chicago Tribune. At the time, I expressed some starry-eyed notion about the objectivity of the press. He knowingly looked me in the eye and in no uncertain terms told me that the stories that get printed are not objective by any means nor are they "unbiased."

    ReplyDelete
  64. Anonymous4:04 PM

    Refresh my memory: did Tim Russert and company ask Tom Delay to rule out an impeachment if John Kerry was elected in 2004?

    Didn't think so.

    Russert (and Wallace, and the rest of their ilk) only consider investigations "unseemly" if they are instigated by Democrats. If it's Republicans raising the hue and cry about perceived Democratic misdeeds, Tim is the first to give them airtime.

    ReplyDelete
  65. Anonymous4:04 PM

    The clubbiness among our national elites also applies to members of intelligence communities across national boundaries: they feel more respect and allegiance to one another than to their respective nations.

    ReplyDelete
  66. Anonymous4:09 PM

    A man pops out of nowhere and delivers one of the most lethally boring speeches at a National Convention anyone has ever (started to---....snooooooze) heard.

    Wait. He's back! Running for President this time with a third party candidate running to make sure Mr. Quick-pass-the-No-Doz-I-feel-your-pain gets in.

    Just in case the public is in a kind of May Day type frenzy, the third party candidate has a military guy as back-up for Vice-President.

    Like what? You think the yokel "slipped by" the power elite who run this country without anybody noticing?

    This is your conception of how the "power elite" operates?

    Do "hillbillys" attend Yale and Oxford and have wives who went to Wellesley and worked at the Rose Law Firm?

    Guess you all thought Daddy Bush wanted to be in office another four years wasting time doing photo-ops?

    Guess you all never heard of "holding actions"?

    ReplyDelete
  67. Anonymous4:11 PM

    hypatia: But that human behavior was suspended when a McDonald’s fiend and monger of big-haired whores was in the oval office, because he offended their sensibilities? I just sense something is at least incomplete about your over-all explanation.

    Yeah, well... he sure could president between all that slap and tickle and snatchin' and grabbin', could he though? That really pisses you off. :)

    the cynic librarian said... Clinton, as much I dislike him personally, is a political genius. What many in the press hated was the idea that some bum-fuck hick from boon-dock Arkansas could be so smart.

    I mean, here you had a guy that was just middling class who'd gone to Yale and Oxford, was a Rhodes scholar, and had the backing of some of the biggest dicks on Wall Street.

    Besides, if there's one thing that a liberal hates more than the rich it's the poor redneck seething in impotent rage in his/her nativist superstitions and drinking beer in the trailer park.


    You mean all that "meritocracy" crap is just that? Crap?

    ReplyDelete
  68. Anonymous4:15 PM

    Glenn,

    I think your thesis has some valid observations about the media and its inclusion in the good ol’ boy’s club. However, I think you may be slightly off about the impeachment prospects.

    There definitely seems to be some “professional courtesy” extended to politicians by the media elite. That is not unusual. There was a time when trashy things like extramarital relationships and drinking and such were kept far from the printing press, even though the reporters had been privy to the info.

    Today, however, the press is truly comprised of paparazziesque individuals willing to whore out their mother for a big scoop.

    It is a reasonable assumption to believe that Russert was merely trying to get Pelosi on the record of saying there will be no investigations, so he could use it as a “gottcha” when the subpoenas start rolling.

    As much as the press postures about their delicate sensitivities being offended by the thought of a partisan catfight—they are huddling in the corner, sinisterly rubbing their hands and licking their chops, waiting for an impeachment to cover.

    And cover it they will—exhaustively—in excruciating and salacious detail.

    The press has failed its mission as a member of the fourth estate. They fail to investigate. But when a ratings giant, like impeachment is handed to them, they will pick apart both sides as tenaciously as chimps picking nits. It’ll be O.J. all over again.

    An impeachments and investigations are like a bad car wreck; the press hopes that nobody they know or like is involved, but they’ll be there… with the cameras running.

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  69. It seems that Richard Cohen is issuing a wake-up call to Dems and the angry, rabid Left. Richard Cohen @ The Washington Post writes:

    ...The anger festering on the Democratic left will be taken out on the Democratic middle. (Watch out, Hillary!) I have seen this anger before -- back in the Vietnam War era. That's when the antiwar wing of the Democratic Party helped elect Richard Nixon. In this way, they managed to prolong the very war they so hated. [my emphasis]

    The hatred is back. I know it's only words now appearing on my computer screen, but the words are so angry, so roiled with rage, that they are the functional equivalent of rocks once so furiously hurled during antiwar demonstrations. I can appreciate some of it. Institution after institution failed America -- the presidency, Congress and the press. They all endorsed a war to rid Iraq of what it did not have. Now, though, that gullibility is being matched by war critics who are so hyped on their own sanctimony that they will obliterate distinctions, punishing their friends for apostasy and, by so doing, aiding their enemies. If that's going to be the case, then Iraq is a war its critics will lose twice -- once because they couldn't stop it and once more at the polls.

    ReplyDelete
  70. Anonymous4:19 PM

    We call it "taking care that the laws shall be faithfully executed."

    Liar, liar, pants on fire.

    How about illegal immigrants?

    See: Goose, gander.

    ReplyDelete
  71. Anonymous4:19 PM

    Surely a simpler explantion is that they are all being paid to shill for the Republican party by their corporate owners who stand to benefit from the Republican corruption? These so-called journalists are paid huge amounts to lie.

    That's about it. See Orwell Rolls Over in His Grave. It's out on DVD.

    Columbia Journalism Review has Who Owns What. Google it.

    But my favorite is the Center for Public Integrity and their

    Media and Telecom Watch.

    http://www.publicintegrity.org/telecom/

    ReplyDelete
  72. Anonymous4:25 PM

    Eyes Wide Open said...
    We call it "taking care that the laws shall be faithfully executed."

    Liar, liar, pants on fire.

    How about illegal immigrants?

    See: Goose, gander.

    4:19 PM




    Look, you can be really annoying. Really. Most of the time. Do something useful. Toddle on down to your local library and see if you can find "The Limits of the Criminal Sanction" Packer, Herbert and "Two Models of the Criminal Justice System"

    It won't make you any less annoying but it might keep you quiet for awhile.

    ReplyDelete
  73. Anonymous4:30 PM

    The press seems to have forgotten its highest calling: Its job is to comfort the afflicted, and afflict the comfortable.

    ReplyDelete
  74. Anonymous4:32 PM

    The press seems to have forgotten its highest calling: Its job is to comfort the afflicted, and afflict the comfortable.

    Mencken?

    ReplyDelete
  75. Anonymous4:34 PM

    Not sure how accurate this is... you have to be careful on the internets.


    "The job of the newspaper is to comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable." Is a hundred-year old quote that can be traced to the work of Finley Peter Dunne.

    ReplyDelete
  76. Anonymous4:36 PM

    Go pick some fruit.

    That would have been a "fun in the sun" luxury compared to some of the much harder labor I did for much lower wages in my life.

    You make a lot of assumptions as you arrive at your "scientific" observations about people.

    PS. You are the kind of "elitist" I do not respect. I really believe you look down on people who start out in life doing menial tasks.

    I identify with any honest hard-working person and respect them all for their industry.

    I also identify with following the law.

    But then, I am not trying to round up some votes and neither am I trying to round up more cannon fodder.

    ReplyDelete
  77. Anonymous4:40 PM

    Yes. Finley Peter Dunne...

    "Comfort the afflicted, afflict the comfortable."

    His many other bon mots and witticisms are worthy of note.

    ReplyDelete
  78. Anonymous4:43 PM

    Paul Rosenberg said...
    (You really haven't figured out the meaning of the Anatole France quote, yet, have you?)


    A Randian and self-described "libertarian"? You give these people far too much credit because they write well and Bush makes them nervous. Bush makes the Birchers nervous and they write well too. Anatole France goes right over their heads. Let's ask them about Swift, shall we?

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  79. Anonymous4:53 PM

    Cynic Librarian writes: It seems that Richard Cohen is issuing a wake-up call to Dems and the angry, rabid Left.

    This is what Barbara at Mahablog has to say, my emphasis of a point I recently made here:

    Still, the anger thing does worry me. I am not saying we don’t have a right to be angry. And I have argued many times that the righties have us beat in the hate and fear departments. I get angry, too. But I think it’s possible that this angry left meme, as unfair as it is, could hurt us. (Since when is swift-boating fair?) And, as I argued here, displays of anger are counterproductive to persuasion. Cohen is right about the antiwar wing of the Democratic Party helping to elect Richard Nixon. I remember it well.

    So, I’m asking Mahablog readers to stop picking on Richard Cohen and to not indulge in sending hate emails to pundits or politicians who piss you off.


    She’s right. And yes, I know the right-wing does it, too. Last week, Reason magazine’s Editor-in-Chief, Nick Gillespie, was on the Bill O’Reilly show with Sen. Lamar Alexander (R-Tenn.) to debate the legislator's recent Senate resolution that the Pledge of Allegiance and the national anthem "should be recited or sung in English." Libertarian Nick was quite…impertinent with Sen. Alexander, and the right-wing populists who make up O’Reilly’s fan base went rabidly insane. You can read a selection of their depraved and deranged emails to nick here . (CAUTION: Not work friendly.) (My favorites are those calling Nick a communist – he is editor of a libertarian mag whose motto is: Free Minds, Free Markets.)

    But the left has an issue with certain in their midst being perceived as angry, frightening radicals. Doesn’t matter whether that is fair, or whether people should be as willing to diss the right because of the kind of crap that happened to Nick Gillespie. The “Angry Left” continues with these nasty email campaigns at potentially great peril.

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  80. Anonymous4:58 PM

    Some journalists do good investigative reporting but nothing ever happens to follow up on what they reveal.
    Stephen Cambone

    Implausible Denial
    Jason Vest

    Writing in the December 16, 2002, edition of The Nation, I broke the news--and explored the concerns many in the US intelligence community had--about Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld's quiet success in prevailing upon Congress to authorize the creation of a new senior position at the Pentagon,the Under Secretary of Defense for Intelligence. Several months later, in the pages of the Columbia Journalism Review, I followed up with a piece devoted to the media's utter lack of interest--perhaps best demonstrated by the absence of any reporter from a farcical confirmation hearing--in the new Under Secretary himself, Stephen Cambone......


    Too many stories, too little times for Patriotic Americans outside of government and nobody in government seems to care.

    ReplyDelete
  81. Anonymous4:59 PM

    These might help....Try these on for size, EWO.

    LAND, n. A part of the earth's surface, considered as property. The theory that land is property subject to private ownership and control is the foundation of modern society, and is eminently worthy of the superstructure. Carried to its logical conclusion, it means that some have the right to prevent others from living; for the right to own implies the right exclusively to occupy; and in fact laws of trespass are enacted wherever property in land is recognized. It follows that if the whole area of _terra firma_ is owned by A, B and C, there will be no place for D, E, F and G to be born, or, born as trespassers, to exist.


    We must worship the Horatio Alger fantasy that the meritorious few will just happen to have the lucky breaks that make them rich. Libertarians happen to be the meritorious few by ideological correctness. The rest can go hang.


    He always pictured himself a libertarian, which to my way of thinking means "I want the liberty to grow rich and you can have the liberty to starve". It's easy to believe that no one should depend on society for help when you yourself happen not to need such help.
    Isaac Asimov, "I. Asimov" pg. 308.

    [What Hayek] does not see, or will not admit, [is] that a return to "free" competition means for the great mass of people a tyranny probably worse, because more irresponsible, than that of the State. The trouble with competitions is that somebody wins them. Professor Hayek denies that free capitalism necessarily leads to monopoly, but in practice that is where it has led, and since the vast majority of people would far rather have State regimentation than slumps and unemployment, the drift towards collectivism is bound to continue if popular opinion has any say in the matter.
    George Orwell, in a 1944 review of "The Road to Serfdom" by F.A. Hayek and "The Mirror of the Past" by K. Zilliacus


    Libertarians and their "I've got mine, Jack" philosphy are people who were born on third base and think they've hit life's triple. In America's egalitarian society it should surprise no one this cramped, neo-Victorian philosophy has not caught on.

    Russell Sadler, commentator, Jefferson Public Radio in Ashland, Oregon

    ReplyDelete
  82. Democrats should not run away from their intention to investigate but should clearly and unapologetically explain to Americans why investigations and uncovering the truth are so critically important

    I think what some Democrats are doing is trying to undercut a Republican talking point in these upcoming elections.

    The Republican Party has become so pathetic that all they’ve got to stir up the base is fear of gays and this point: “vote for us because um, ah, hmm, oh yeah, otherwise there will be investigations.”

    That’s some platform, huh?

    The media, on the other hand (at least the usual suspects), is doing its part to present this Republican talking point – and their reason is fear and intimidation.

    The Chris Wallace statement reflects that fear “Are you saying Senator, that you would consider the impeachment of a Commander-in-Chief in time of war."

    That’s what some in the press (and some Democrats) are worried about. Because the Republicans will say that “investigating the President” will “hurt the morale of our troops” and “undermine the war on terror” by “giving aid and comfort to the enemy.” That sort of smear is all the ammunition the Republicans have left – they can’t cite anything positive they’ve accomplished that anyone not in the top 3% income bracket can relate to.

    So, I think that this really has little to do with “etiquette” per se, but everything to do with the “fear and smear” tactics that the Republicans plan to use to keep themselves in power.

    Oh, yeah, they are driven by fear themselves because as Glenn noted, “all investigations do is reveal the truth” and the very last thing Bushites and Republicans want revealed is the truth. They can’t handle the truth.

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  83. Anonymous5:06 PM

    anon:

    I vote for me. When I annoy the hell out of people I put my name to it.

    You don't.

    (You really haven't figured out the meaning of the Anatole France quote, yet, have you?)

    Ya. I got it. He forgot we live in a country where all men are equal under the law.

    Unfortunately, we cannot guarantee that all men are equal in terms of life's blessings and a few hundred million people have been killed by those who told others they could give that guaranty.

    ReplyDelete
  84. Anonymous5:15 PM

    Paul,


    (1) Has anyone here, other than me, ever picked fruit for a living?

    I picked fruit to feed myself. That is "for a living" in my book.

    (2) If not, has anyone here ever done any other form of work that is almost exclusively done by immigrants, or their recent descendents?

    Yes. Although in my case one of those jobs is now done primarily by immigrants where it was not traditionally so in the past.


    (3) If you answered "yes" to #1 or #2, has this experience altered or informed your view of our society in any way?

    I have always had an " altered or informed view" of society by dint of my own personal idiosyncrasies and eccentricities. For instance, refusing to join the Boy Scouts at my parents urging because I did not want to be a member of a fascist organization.

    (4) If you answered "yes" to #1 or #2, do you think your co-workers would have understood Anatole France better than EWO?

    This is a great question. Definitely. Many would. not all. Intelligence is impossible to quantify, (and education benefits some more than others, and some not at all), cross culturally or not. That's just my opinion. Some very bright people have incredibly vast blindspots, as you are seeing here. I chalk this one up to knowledge and wisdom and they don't teach that in schools here anymore. Where once it was football, now it's business.

    ACADEME, n.
    An ancient school where morality and philosophy were taught.

    ACADEMY, n.
    [from ACADEME] A modern school where football is taught.

    ReplyDelete
  85. Anonymous5:17 PM

    Comeback of the Dinosaur Paleo-Repubs

    But Hayden, who for six years was director of the National Security Agency, is also associated with almost every intelligence issue that has become a problem for the administration — including the failure to prevent the Sept. 11 attacks, misjudgments about weapons programs in Iraq, and eavesdropping on U.S. residents without court warrants.

    Nonetheless, the White House apparently is willing to revive the eavesdropping debate to highlight national security issues, which have been a political plus for the administration.


    Well, we'll just have to see about how much of a "political plus" Orwellian America really is.

    Meanwhile, you go Paleos!

    ReplyDelete
  86. Anonymous5:21 PM

    Anyone ever notice that the blood doesn't seem to have been drained out of the veins of the House Members as opposed to the rigor mortis entities who occupy the seats in the Senate?

    Why is that?

    ReplyDelete
  87. Anonymous5:21 PM

    It's pretty obvious isn't it. The right owns the media. With a few exceptions they own it. They pay really good for those willing to spout the party line. Russert, Tweety, and all the rest of the talking head punditry are in it for themselves. I beleive that also speaks for the current majority in power. Take it now while you can and screw the following generations. Lets borrow trillions from the unwashed masses children and give it to campaign donors who turn around and give it back as contributions. Nice racket, when you have all three legs of the checks and balances and literally buy the 4th estate what is there left. Can you say Cayman Islands or Dubai banks when they finally lose.

    ReplyDelete
  88. Anonymous5:25 PM

    Ya. I got it. He forgot we live in a country where all men are equal under the law.

    This is funny. If you believe that, I've got a bridge to nowhere in Alaska I'd like to sell you. At least the Brooklynn Bridge goes someplace, although I don't own either of them.


    Criminal Justice was my major in college and I bet I've seen the inner workings of the criminal justice system more closely and frequently than you have, and I can tell you this: You really need to get out more.

    Here. I know you'll love this. It is you.

    Neo-Tech ZonPower for Romantic Love, Power, Money.

    Ayn Rand meets L. Ron Hubbard for multi-level marketing complete with cosmology, physics, eternal life, abundant sex, tax avoidance, universal civilization, true psychology, "integrated honesty", and more! This is not a parody.

    ReplyDelete
  89. No. You need a partisan explanation to explain partisan facts. They shill for Bush because they are paid to shill for Bush. They attacked Clinton because they were paid to attack Clinton.

    Explanations that try to make out a neutral reason (and therefore allow journalists to look sincere) fail. They are on the take for an explicity Republican agenda.


    How do you explain the NYT Editorial Page? And Dan Rather? And Keith Olberman? And the fact that a majority of journalists vote Democratic?

    And the fact that every significant and harmful Bush scandal - NSA eavesdropping, secret Eastern European prisons, the use of torture, Abu Ghraib, the existence of pre-war intelligence doubts about WMDs - were all uncovered and reported by by the "corporate media"?

    And the fact that the media has largely promoted a liberal view on social issues over the last two decades? And the fact that many corporations gave heavily to the DNC throughout the 1990s and still do?

    I know it's easy and convenient to latch onto "the-whole-world-is-paid-to-be-against-me" conspiracies -- it even gives a little of that nice, purifying victim glory. But things are never that straightforward - that's Lex Luthor/cartoonville.

    If all of DC - the White House and Congress -- were controlled by Democrats, and they had the strings of access in their hands, and controlled the breaks corporations get, etc., the media and corporations would be cuddling up to them. That's what people who curry favor with power do. They don't care who is in power. They will be very accommodating to whoever is.

    Finally, let's not overstate the media's hostility towards Clinton. Yes, they were very aggressive with the Lewinksy story because it produced ratings and sold newspapers because it was tawdry. But they were hardly against Clinton when he ran against Bush 41 or against him when he ran against Dole. Both Bush 41 and Dole were depicted as old, doddering, boring Republicans compared to the super-modern, super slick Clinton.

    I think to attribute partisan motives or ideological allegiance to journalists is to give them way too much credit. They are moved by much more base motives and will protect whoever can advance their interests, regardless of party.

    ReplyDelete
  90. Anonymous5:28 PM

    Years ago Duke students were criticized for yelling "bulls---" at the refs. The Dukies responded to their bluenosed critics by shouting, "We beg to differ." To my fellow e-mailers and blog commenters, I say let's tone it down. I love nasty words as much as the next guy, but why give the repubs a freebie issue?

    By the way, years ago Richard Cohen wrote a column about his bank charging him for a bounced check. He said it could not be true because the balance in his account was $44,000 plus. I thought, why do I need to know the balance in your account? In addition, only an idiot would keep that much money in a checking account. I have not read his column since.

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  91. Anonymous5:39 PM

    As the Republicans keep pointing out, they have done nothing wrong and everything is within the law as defined by them. Democrats need to turn this around and remind them of that -- they should not have to worry about investigations if they are not guilty of any crimes. The fact that they are so nervous about it speaks volumes. Based on the fact that Bush's approval ratings are so incredibly low the Democrats need to recognize that they are no longer in the minority and do not need to be cowed. Americans are sick and tired of the lies and they want the truth to come out. They realize it absolutely will not happen with this rubber-stamp congress. People of the world unite. It's time to take a strong stand and let everyone that we want the truth. I think that will bring more people to the polls come November than the ridiculous gay marriage referendum crap the Repugs are sure to roll out.

    ReplyDelete
  92. Anonymous5:40 PM

    Eyes Wide Open said...
    anon:

    I vote for me.


    Fortunately you aren't running for office. It's the only vote you'd get.


    When I annoy the hell out of people I put my name to it.

    You don't.


    Eyes Wide Open is your legal name? You are wierd.

    (You really haven't figured out the meaning of the Anatole France quote, yet, have you?)

    Ya. I got it. He forgot we live in a country where all men are equal under the law.


    Asked and answered.

    Unfortunately, we cannot guarantee that all men are equal in terms of life's blessings and a few hundred million people have been killed by those who told others they could give that guaranty.

    A few hundred million? OK. Show us the bodies. There is no crime without the corpus delectii. It's kind of like in Iraq. That's why they can't pull out, nor did they in Nam. To the victor go the spoils, and more importantly, the privilege of writing the history. The sad fact lost on people like you is that as long as morons fight over things as petty as economic systems and the resources that don't care one jot how they get distributed to the people who will consume them, the corpses will pile up and most of us here recognize that when it comes to killing, nobody does it better.

    But like I said, "e don't do body counts anymore."

    Peace through superior firepower, sucka.

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  93. Part of the problem with Richard Cohen is that he's old enough to remember whan the anti-war movement really was scary (Weathermen, SDS) while the younger KOSsack's who are flaming him can only scratch their head and wonder what the hell he's talking about this "angry left" problem.

    Because after all, if you aren't outraged, then you haven't been paying attention!

    ReplyDelete
  94. Anonymous5:48 PM

    And the fact that every significant and harmful Bush scandal - NSA eavesdropping, secret Eastern European prisons, the use of torture, Abu Ghraib, the existence of pre-war intelligence doubts about WMDs - were all uncovered and reported by by the "corporate media"?

    They have to give the appearance of objectivity. And Sy Hersh is maverick. They sat on the NSA story for a year, didn't they? Look, individual reoporters aren't the issue... as the other fellow said, the farther up the chain of command you go the more conservative it gets and in the final analysis, it's all about the ad revenues and the bottom line. Look at who spends the most on advertising these days and you can see all you need to know. I see big pharma, insurance, banking and investment, and telecom. Game, set, match. Or I rest my case.

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  95. Anonymous5:52 PM

    And to add, this is why it's hard to spot the bias. If the Dems get control, the corporate money starts to flow their way, but corps want Republicans in power. Even the most craven DINOs go against the corporate grain just enough to make the big money queasy.

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  96. Anonymous5:59 PM

    No. The corporate media is NOT trying to be entertaining. It is positively running at a loss rather than put Bush in a bad light. The reason this makes business sense is that the overall conglomerate profits by having a corporatist president. ie an aristocratic Republican president because the corporations are owned by the aristocracy.

    That's what I see. But I also fail to see "hundreds of millions of bodies" buried in socialist Sweden and see more bodies than I can count as a result of spreading "freedom and democracy" and the joys of "global corporate consumerism" and the unquestioning rectitude of unbound capitalism. Maybe it's just me. I said I was a bit eccentric.

    ReplyDelete
  97. Anonymous6:03 PM

    Glenn asks:
    How do you keep convincing yourself that "the country" thinks what you think even though all evidence negates that belief? These are real questions. I am genuinely interested in understanding how you manage to do that.

    You are going to have to consider that your interpretation of the "evidence" is flawed. It can be summarized as.............

    1. * There seems to be an emerging consensus among the coddled, effete Beltway media stars that it would be highly improper and uncouth for the Democrats -- should they take over one or both houses of Congress in November -- to launch investigations into the various, thus-far-uninvestigated lawbreaking and corruption scandals surrounding the Bush administration.

    No, it is the consensus of the media that declaring an investigative jihad by one party on another, as an election strategy, is more titillating than any charge currently made. Let that soak in for a second.

    Consider this, Conyers has an impeachment web site. It has lots of graphics, condemnation, indignation, and bloviation. But the only sentence that lists any actual basis for investigation is this......
    I have sought answers from the administration to questions arising from the Downing Street Minutes, the Valerie Plame leak, and scores of other abominable abuses of power that pervade the activities of this White House.
    That's it? It's time to consider that the frustration of narrowly losing elections and other assorted slights has worked the liberal "self talk" into a literal frenzy that people outside of it cannot relate to. That would include a lot of the MSM. Like it or not, the MSM has shot itself in the foot so often of late, they have to be careful of actual facts.

    The actual facts include the actions of the greatest political weathervanes available. Congressmen. They reflect the mood of the country better than any poll available. I've written about the abject failure of the Murtha amendment, there's the failure to successfully filibuster the Supreme Court nominations, and most recently the Feingold censure that died a miserable death.

    2. The media is supposed to be inherently pro-investigation. It's intended to be an investigative body, to subject government conduct to aggressive scrutiny and be devoted to the exposure of information which the Government is attempting to conceal from its citizens.The media doesn't exist to do anything other than investigate and exert skepticism over the Government's statements and actions.

    The media is not a Grand Jury. It was at one time, taking whatever the left decided was the theme of the day. The left as prosecutor has been counterbalanced by the righty blogosphere as defender. As importantly, the righty blogosphere has exposed the contradictions of quite a few lefty positions. Kerry wasn't able to hide his flops, persons wanting to force an issue can't count on media amnesia to cooperate. You wanted Hookergate, but it wasn't the right issue for the time. You've blasted Harman and Feinstein, you may be sure it's available now for all to peruse when useful. If you are ready to eat your own, the charge of unthinking revenge by liberals becomes all the more plausible.

    3. But investigations hurt people. Sometimes, people get accused of criminal behavior! They have to pay for lawyers which can be really expensive. It impacts their lives and can really harm a person's career, so it's out-of-bounds.

    This is really wrong. The media wants all the investigation, scandal, lying, cheating, and backstabbing, it can get. That's what sells advertising and makes careers. The 24 hour news cycle is a ravenous maw that can never be filled, and has the interesting effect of so thoroughly digesting current events that all the older charges one might bring up have been done. With no new information there's nothing worth revisiting.

    4.I think Feinstein gave the real reason why she did it -- she likes Gen. Hayden, and therefore wants to support him. Both of them have been around DC forever.

    Oh brother, politicians as Barney the Dinosaur? Not a chance. She might actually be thinking about the country.

    5. Bush at 3x%

    Polls are great until they're wrong. Are people pissed at Bush? Obviously. Is the base going to vote for a Democrat? Not a chance. Was the sample general population, registered voters, or likely voters? Where was the sample taken, NYC or Dallas? The "Drive-by Media" is famous for doing a poll and reporting it as news. Is it real news?

    In the real world, events determine world view for most people not FireDogLake. I mentioned that I was banished for having contrary views. How Orwellian. Bush hatred is not an attractive quality, and most people recognize that, even Democratic politicians. Consider that you are counting on that hatred as representative of the country. Real people are too busy with life to be that focused. If the latest percentage is that low in October I'd agree the Republicans have a serious problem, but I'd bet on my view of human psychology that crowing about how much misery Dems can inflict on Pubs is not a winning issue.

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  98. Anonymous6:05 PM

    No. The corporate media is NOT trying to be entertaining. It is positively running at a loss rather than put Bush in a bad light.

    This bit.

    News departments get less money now than ever before. Political reporting is steadily declining since the 90s. Not remaining stable or increasing. So instead of running at a loss, they spend less on news and news is becoming more of an entertainment. One wya or another they are making the books balance. Creative accounting, anyone?

    ReplyDelete
  99. KingCranky II said...

    Bart: "Let me join in the baiting. For weeks, I have been encouraging you folks to make the NSA Program your lead campaign issue. However, if you aren't stupid enough to bite on that juicy bit of bait, let me now encourage you to campaign on the impeachment of George Bush."

    Walking unarmed into a battle of wits usually does the aggressor no good, as the paragraph immediately above shows so clearly.

    But since the challenge-laughable as the claim is-was put out there, I'll bite...


    After the three page rant which followed your snark above, I can say with assurance that you have bitten down hard. Hold onto that hate, son, and turn it into action. Call, email and write your Donkey senator and representative and demand that they campaign to end the NSA Program and to impeach the outlaw President.

    You go!

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  100. Anonymous6:07 PM

    Shooter... You are going to have to consider that your interpretation of the "evidence" is flawed. It can be summarized as.............

    Read: not interpreted the way you'd like.

    I would also add, you first.

    ReplyDelete
  101. shooter:
    >Congressmen. They reflect the mood of the country better than any poll available.<

    That has to be one of the funniest sentences I've read in MONTHS!

    ReplyDelete
  102. Anonymous6:11 PM

    Bart... After the three page rant which followed your snark above, I can say with assurance that you have bitten down hard. Hold onto that hate, son, and turn it into action. Call, email and write your Donkey senator and representative and demand that they campaign to end the NSA Program and to impeach the outlaw President.

    You go!



    Were you a bully in school, Bart? Or a milquetoast who got his ass handed to him by a girl, like Karl Rove, and been acting out ever since? Like Karl Rove.

    ReplyDelete
  103. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

    ReplyDelete
  104. Anonymous6:14 PM

    ender said...
    the cynic librarian said...

    It seems that Richard Cohen is issuing a wake-up call to Dems and the angry, rabid Left.

    Nope. No way.. not for me. What part of voting one's conscience do fearful liberals not understand?


    Thank you. I wanted to say something to Cynic L about that, but didn't. Not that it isn't important, but I think he's too smart not to see through the pitiful wankery of Cohen in the long run.

    ReplyDelete
  105. Anonymous6:17 PM

    PhD9 said...
    shooter:
    >Congressmen. They reflect the mood of the country better than any poll available.<

    That has to be one of the funniest sentences I've read in MONTHS!


    You actually read past the first graf? I guess there are occaisonal gems buried in the dross. But I'll let you do the heavy lifting for me.

    ReplyDelete
  106. Anonymous6:21 PM

    What motivates for many of the Elite Press and Pundits?

    Money and power.

    The old saying, "Follow the money" is very appropriate. These people get huge salaries and get to mingle with the the highest of power brokers. They must be giddy rubbing elbows with arguably historic people. Any criticism of them and their friends in power is a threat to the status quo.

    To them, the people outside of these centers of power are the unwashed rabble.

    ReplyDelete
  107. Anonymous6:22 PM

    Comment Deleted
    This post has been removed by the author.


    I've seen one or two of the comments Glenn writes that he rethinks and then moderates. I wish he wouldn't do that, whoever he's yelling at.

    ReplyDelete
  108. Anonymous said...

    Bart... After the three page rant which followed your snark above, I can say with assurance that you have bitten down hard. Hold onto that hate, son, and turn it into action. Call, email and write your Donkey senator and representative and demand that they campaign to end the NSA Program and to impeach the outlaw President. You go!

    Were you a bully in school, Bart? Or a milquetoast who got his ass handed to him by a girl, like Karl Rove, and been acting out ever since? Like Karl Rove.


    Am I being mean to the poor lefties my egging them on to actually act on their avowed principles?

    Its easy to talk a good game. I am fully willing to withhold my vote from candidates which vote against what I stand for. I do not believe you will. You will all continue to vote for your Donkey senator and representative no matter how many times they vote for things you claim to despise.

    Am I being a "bully" for calling out you lemmings?

    ReplyDelete
  109. Anonymous6:29 PM

    Consider this, Conyers has an impeachment web site. It has lots of graphics, condemnation, indignation, and bloviation. But the only sentence that lists any actual basis for investigation is this......
    I have sought answers from the administration to questions arising from the Downing Street Minutes, the Valerie Plame leak, and scores of other abominable abuses of power that pervade the activities of this White House.




    Remind us again what the actual bases for the multiple and interminable ongoing investigations of the Clinton administration were, Shooter...

    ReplyDelete
  110. 6:14 PM

    That was me pointing out something else that was just too obvious to even need saying.

    ReplyDelete
  111. Anonymous6:29 PM

    Rupert Murdoch to Host Hillary Fund-Raiser

    Rupert Murdoch, head of the News Corp. empire that includes conservative favorites like the Fox News Channel and the New York Post, will be hosting a New York senatorial fund-raiser for Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-N.Y.


    Two party system. Ha. And pigs fly.

    Meanwhile, what are jao, hypatia and Glenn's views about this new SC ruling that says anticipatory searches for contraband do not need a search warrant and do not violate the Fourth Amendment.

    I'll tell you mine. I am aghast.

    In eternal war, anything can be said to be "contraband", even a meatless sandwich.

    I would think all the gun lovers among you would be wary of this as the probable intent is to just secure even further that there could never be any kind of revolution in this country of the citizenry against the government like in the Revolution.

    I am not advoating such a thing as I have already stated I am against all violence, but I thought one of the "selling points" of the NRA (who I despise) is that citizens should be allowed to have guns to keep the government from having exclusive control of weapons.

    Is that wrong?

    PS.What do you think is in the "suspicious package" tossed on to the White House lawn?

    Is it too optimistic of me to hope it is a warrant?

    ReplyDelete
  112. Anonymous6:32 PM

    bart said...
    Am I being a "bully" for calling out you lemmings?

    6:26 PM



    I think you meant ...

    Am I being a "bully" for calling you out, lemmings?

    Yes, Bart. Sometimes you must choose between the evil of two lessers.

    ReplyDelete
  113. Anonymous6:37 PM

    EWO... I'll tell you mine. I am aghast.

    In eternal war, anything can be said to be "contraband", even a meatless sandwich.


    Many of us have been aghast since the "meatless sandwich" became the school lunch program under "libertarians" and "compassionate conservatives".

    ReplyDelete
  114. Anonymous6:46 PM

    Anyone wanting to discuss Ayn Rand please start by posting the sentences of her non-fiction writing you disagree with. I don't go to any "links" about her. I have her books. If I want humor I will watch Colbert.

    When I said we live in a country where all men are equal under the law, the self-professed geniuses among you concluded I think we have justice in this country?

    I am talking about our system of codified law. That's the "model" for our legal system which is a branch of our government.

    Who said anything about justice? Justice would be perfect laws applied perfectly.

    But you're right. I do have to get out more. I'm so snowed in that nobody ever told me that Zuckerman and Bloomberg were members of the "right". Thanks for enlightening me about that.

    They attacked Clinton because they were paid to attack Clinton.

    This is true. Betcha don't know why though. Nor with whose consent.

    ReplyDelete
  115. Anonymous6:52 PM

    Ender...I am pretty sure Glenn thinks we are loony toons though. I wonder what he thinks about that first link in my earlier post?

    It's a gross oversimplification of a very complex dynamic but there is more meat there than in EWO's "meatless sandwich". I don't know what Glenn thinks, but I think Glenn is very much like us and very much a skeptic and not given to accepting very simple explanations for complex phenomenon. That's a good thing. He may be a little less cynical than the two of us... but I wonder how long that's going to stand.

    ReplyDelete
  116. Anonymous6:56 PM

    What on earth would any sane Democrat be doing pushing for the impeachment of President Bush when DICK CHENEY would be his replacement? That would be like gettng rid of Pol Pot for Stalin.

    ReplyDelete
  117. Anonymous7:00 PM

    The right: If we can't win their hearts and minds, (they can't), we must start the pacification of the left.

    Look at Vietnam. Here they won't use violence, and we don't need to either. We just take their advice. When they dare us to get out of line, get out of line. And yell louder. They have no defense against that, short of violence, which is what always brings them down in the end.

    ReplyDelete
  118. Anonymous7:04 PM

    Cynic Librarian, a while back it was reported (Wash Post?) that there was a high likelihood of Cheney resigning right after the election.

    I am a strong opponent of tit-for-tat impeachment. But due to the intransigence of Team Bush and the serious nature of his Constitutional violations, the possibility of impeachment FOR CAUSE now seems more likely. I ask mysrlf, "What Republican do I favor to finish his term?"

    ReplyDelete
  119. Anonymous7:05 PM

    And... it was the very same thing that drove media clowns and wankers like Cohen farther to the right. It was called Freeping. bart can tell you all about it. The difference here is they had perhaps 30,000 to 50,000 in their heyday. Probably more like 10,000 20,000 max, if even that, today.

    We have millions, literally. That's a very loud yell, Howard

    ReplyDelete
  120. Anonymous7:09 PM

    Are you saying that I should not refer to the POTUS as "chimpy"?

    ReplyDelete
  121. Anonymous7:09 PM

    OT, to Paul Rosenberg:

    I had the Kevin Phillips book title wrong: the one I meant was, "The Politics of Rich and Poor: Wealth and Electorate in the Reagan Aftermath" and Powells lists the pub date as 1990.

    OTOH, I could swear I read this back during the Reagan admin. Oh, well.

    ReplyDelete
  122. Anonymous7:10 PM

    "What Republican do I favor to finish his term?"

    McCain. I only wish they would put him in there now. That wimpified dork will give the country plenty of reason to boot him out of office for good in 2008. If Kerry's failure to fight back in 2004 for made you angry, (it pissed me the hell off) McCain's pitiful picture of subservience to Bush and the GOP in 2000 is in the dictionary next to "moral cowardice".

    ReplyDelete
  123. Anonymous said...

    bart said... Am I being a "bully" for calling you out, lemmings?

    Yes, Bart. Sometimes you must choose between the evil of two lessers


    No you don't.

    I vote libertarian when I don't agree with the Elephant or Donkey running for office. I withheld my vote from George I when he violated his promise and raised taxes.

    So long as you keep voting for candidates who do not vote for what you want, they will take you for granted and suck up to true swing voters.

    Clinton was one of the most conservative presidents we have had in my lifetime and you lefties cheerfully kept voting for him.

    Exactly why should the Donkeys running for office take the left seriously?

    ReplyDelete
  124. Anonymous7:14 PM

    Anonymous said...
    Are you saying that I should not refer to the POTUS as "chimpy"?

    7:09 PM



    Shrub? It's His Most Supreme and Sublime Highness, Deciderer in Chief and Chimperor for Life.

    Appointed and Annointed by God.

    ReplyDelete
  125. Anonymous7:18 PM

    While I like Glenn's explanation and I think it has some merit, there may be a simpler explanation: that for the people who have staked their careers on the workings of Washington, DC, politics is just a game!

    To the Russerts, Cohens, Feinsteins, and Wallaces of the world, politics is a fun and profitable game. But subpoenas, investigations, and (gasp) impeachment? All of a sudden the game is serious enough to threaten careers, and it's really no longer a game.

    There might be investigations into pre-war intelligence, post-invasion reconstruction, compromising CIA agents, pre-Katrina preparations, post-Katrina response, post-Katrina reconstruction, Abramoff bribery, Duke Cunningham bribery, torture at Guantanamo, torture in Iraq, torture in secret prisons in Eastern Europe, NSA wiretapping, yet to be disclosed NSA wiretapping, and possibly more.

    Just look at how long that list is. If all of those issues came to the forefront of the American public's collective mind, the media will look awfully lazy, complicit, and just plain broken.

    The talking heads will have some 'splainin to do, and THAT's what has got Russert's panties in a bunch. These guys are rightfully in fear for their careers, legacies, and, most importantly, their jobs.

    The "game" is ending, and they don't want to stop playing and go home just yet. I think that's the simplest explanation.

    ReplyDelete
  126. Anonymous7:18 PM

    Bart,

    No you don't.

    None of us are you. Most of us would have a problem with "thinking" like you. And this is all academic. It depends on what state you live in. Where you are, in CO., a vote for Mickey Mouse, (he is the perennial libertarian candidate there, I believe), is a vote for the chimperor.

    ReplyDelete
  127. Anonymous7:26 PM

    I neglected to include the relevant parts of your comment in my response to you, Bart. But you know how silly that sounds to us, electorally speaking. But this is worthy of note. Would you lose your posting privileges at Freep for this heresy? Of course not. Few here are aware how violently opposed to Bush the freepazoids were prior to his nomination. Honestly, how do you look in the... nevermind.

    Clinton was one of the most conservative presidents we have had in my lifetime and you lefties cheerfully kept voting for him.

    ReplyDelete
  128. Anonymous7:30 PM

    Ender... That last bit wasn't very clearly stated but hopefully you get my meaning.

    Always do. Loud and Clear.

    ReplyDelete
  129. Anonymous7:36 PM

    Re: my 7:26 PM comment let me clarify. Heresy is a matter of political convenience, (like the necessity of the choice between the lesser of two evils or the evils of two lessers that Bart now denies), over at freep where prior to Bush's nomination in 2000 the sentiment towards him was rabidly opposed, until they realized that Il Duce would not get the nomination. The Bush was "their guy".

    ReplyDelete
  130. Anonymous7:38 PM

    7:36 PM .

    What Paul said...

    ReplyDelete
  131. Odd how their sense of proper deference also mirrors their sense of entitlement as a White Republican with the proper connections.

    This administration will file a friend of the court brief to end affirmative action at the University of Michigan.

    The whole ethos is to cut the ladder off behind them, leaving others to fight over scraps.

    ReplyDelete
  132. Anonymous8:00 PM

    The Psychotic Patriot thinks it flat wouldn't matter if we used profanity or not; or even if we were (gasp) "rude" when dissing a wingnut talking point, or the wingnut making it. The problem isn't that we dislike Bush, his actions, or his government, or that we write about it.

    The problem is that we exist at all.

    Liberals who actually speak and/or write in complete sentences totally skew the wingnut fantasy world, because we create or emphasize concepts that take time and energy away from jacking off in front of an infinite videotape loop of white phosphorus burning up brown people.

    So back when we wrote the occasional letter to the editor, we were basically invisible in the astro-turf of organized wingnut zealotry.

    Add Blogger to Google, then give us a basically free platform and a way to hook up with each other, and you see the growth of a movement which can sell 20,000 books before they exist.

    Unfortunately for the wingnuts, we're growing in strength and focus. We're calling you out, and unlike you, we notice your ex-converts moving back across that line they were lied into crossing.

    Your lies are dying, at the same time your bloviating excuses grow ever longer. We notice. We are not moved. We grow and grow.

    ReplyDelete
  133. Anonymous8:08 PM

    Uh oh. In an otherwise fine speech, Sen. Feingold said this:

    The very first question from the audience concerned the president’s nomination of General Michael Hayden to be the director of the CIA. Feingold gave a measured response, neither signaling support nor an all-out fight:

    It is unfortunate that the president made such a contentious choice at a time when the intelligence community, and this country, need consensus on how to move forward. General Hayden will need to convince me that he is committed to the rule of law in order to win my support.

    ReplyDelete
  134. Anonymous8:35 PM

    The other day Bush spoke at OSU. The local tv station had a call in poll about: Is it inappropriate to protest the president when he visits?. You see they have nothing to cover their butts with anymore but accusations of impoliteness. It is uncivil to investigate, impolite to ask and demand answers and inappropritae to demonstrate. Gotta make all of us who insist on the law and the constitution as a bunch of angry inappropriate screamers.

    ReplyDelete
  135. >Meekness is exactly the problem we face today. We need more anger and more people in the streets, even if it causes a short-term backlash against the angry protesters (which it probably will).<

    Actally Digby has toiuched onb this a lot. What we need is less meekness in Congress. The whole reason reThugs get away with calling Dems soft on defense is because the Dems are soft on Republicans. It's all a schoolyard game to them. If you aren't even willing to fight the likes of Tom Delay or Rick Santorium then how prepared are you to fight the other terrorists?!

    ReplyDelete
  136. Anonymous8:59 PM

    What's wrong with payback? You know the Repubs have it coming to them in spades.

    ReplyDelete
  137. >Unfortunately for the wingnuts, we're growing in strength and focus.<

    An important part of the dynamic which I hope is happening is that the blogoshere is drawing people in who otherwise wouldn't be engaged in politics. I know that I personally cared very little about the results of the 2000 Presidential race. I live in the Virgin Islands and am hence disqualified from voting for President. (By the way Glenn, if anyone took up the fight to end the disenfranchisement of US territories, it would result in solid gains for Dems!) But as they say, 911 changed everything, and I have payed more attention in the last 5 years about who's running the country and how, because I saw at the time that the combination of anger and fear that the attacks brought forth was dangerous and could result in our doing something really stupid. Looks like I was right.

    As I said in a previous post, I think what our country is going through now is akin to waking up with a hangover and what separates us is that some of us are going to be willing to take an aspirin and deal with the regret, while others are going for the "hair of the dog" or as its known in shorthand - Iran!

    Back to the quote at the top here, the point I'm trying to make is that I think many of the people who are drawn to the blogosphere are like me in that they might have been apolitical in the past but are now choosing to become involved. And that bodes well for the future.

    ReplyDelete
  138. Anonymous9:32 PM

    A similar attitude prevails in sports. Red Sox fans are appalled that Roger Clemens and Johnny Damon left the team, and then signed with The Yankees -- how could they do that, these are The Yankees, everyone knows that the Red Sox hate the Yankees!

    What they don't realize is that professional atheletes have much more in common with each other than they do with any fan, or sportswriter. When the game is over, they will happily go out with members of the opposing team. There's nothing wrong with that. It's foolishness for a fan to believe otherwise.

    But any athelete who didn't play their hardest for their team would rightfully be scorned. Bill Russel may have had Wilt Chamberlain over for dinner whenever Wilt was in town, but once the referee's whistle sounded, both players gave it their all.

    To wrap up this analogy, there's nothing wrong with Feinstein being friends with Hayden or anyone else. The despicable part is to treat him differently in her professional duty as a politician because of that. To give him a free pass because of their relationship is tremendously unfair to her constituents and the country at large.

    ReplyDelete
  139. Anonymous10:28 PM

    Nice to see Glenn has joined the criticism of the "millionaire pundit" class. Bob Somerby at The Daily Howler has been blogging about this issue for 8 years. Good luck,Glenn,with this topic. Now you have started you can move from discussing "the fakest man alive" (Russert) to remonstrating Arianna and the others who stood by,or blogged nothing (Drum,Tapped et al.) while the media trashed Gore and Kerry. They did it before and they'll do it again. They're why Gore lost and why he can never win.

    ReplyDelete
  140. Anonymous10:39 PM

    I poster this on the wrong thread so will repost here.

    **

    James Carville's "nay" on Gen. Hayden is one for the history books. He really is a classic.

    In short, he said he was against it, but, well, not really, and, like, he is qualified after all, although ::cynical snark:: they all are just shoe shiners anyway in this administration.

    Yeah, Negroponte and Hayden are just "shoe shiners".

    Remember to count your toes after they shine your shoes, that is if you have any left.

    Then Carville gets to his real message and scoffs dismissively at the idiotic notion that this is about illegal NSA spying, etc. He urges sheeple, I mean people to focus their attention on the real issue: the "hooker" scandal and smoking cigars in a no smoking area.

    Actually, 'ole Jimmy boy looked strangely familiar. Where did I just see him?

    Oh yeah. On "24" last night.

    ReplyDelete
  141. Anonymous10:52 PM

    So far there has been only one investigation worthy of the name in Washington - Fitzgerald's.
    This has resulted in firings of Judy Miller and Viceca Novak and indirectly to Bob Novak being fired from CNN. Woodward is damaged goods. You might not be so keen to talk to Russert or Cooper "off the record" if you've been following it too.
    NYT and WaPo have both been badly damaged by the exposure of their pre-war behaviour.

    No wonder they're not so keen on more investigations

    ReplyDelete
  142. Anonymous11:05 PM

    A Randian and self-described "libertarian"?

    Are you talking to moi? I never said I was a libertarian. That was hypatia.

    I have said repeatedly that if there were any "political" label which fit my views, I'd say so.

    There isn't.

    You anons are so anxious to go around attacking people and looking for enemies you pay no attention to a single word they say.

    Very effective. Not.

    Meanwhile, we have a new law coming at us. Mandatory AIDS testing for everyone in the country.

    I guess the government needs more data for their websites and more info to use against people when the need suits them: you know get them fired and embarrass them to some of their neighbors.

    Is this one of the "good" liberal uses a big government can be used for that Paul loves?

    Certainly we believe them when they said their motives are to keep healthy people from being infected with a virus.

    Right?

    If Clinton were President and were pushing this would you all believe him and be in favor of this?

    ReplyDelete
  143. EWO Said:
    >I have said repeatedly that if there were any "political" label which fit my views, I'd say so.

    There isn't.<

    Which reminded me of an Atrios/Kevin Drum exchange recently about what issues the Left-bloggers could agree on.

    Atrios posted a list.
    Link

    Perusing the list there were almost half that I might fail to support but in the supplemental section he said this>

    *Torture is bad
    *Imprisoning citizens without charges is bad
    *Playing Calvinball with the Geneva Conventions and treaties generally is bad
    *Imprisoning anyone indefinitely without charges is bad
    *Stating that the president can break any law he wants any time "just because" is bad.

    All the rest is trivia. The fact that the entire country, independent of party isn't already on record behind this as if it were the Bill of Rights itself just points to how far we have fallen from the ideals that set our nation apart.

    ReplyDelete
  144. Anonymous11:40 PM

    Ah, the sweet aroma of Big Government at work around the clock to "help the people."

    Housing Sec. Canceled Contract Because Contractor Criticized Bush, Apparently Violating Law

    David Byron, a rogue band of lunatics took over the country and the President is at the very highest levels of the conpsiracy which includes the entire Military, the Department of Homeland Security, the CIA, absolutely everyone.

    He is trying to have everyone murdered who has found out he is involved in the conspiracy even ordering a plane full of innocent passengers to be shot down because Jack Bauer is on it with the evidence.

    But just as he's about to be exposed through the discovery of evidence which implicates him and the whole house will come down in front of the American people, one person steps forward and saves him.

    Miles. A careerist.

    They're there okay. You just don't see them because you are not looking in the right places

    ReplyDelete
  145. Anonymous11:40 PM

    Eyes Wide Open said...
    A Randian and self-described "libertarian"?

    Are you talking to moi? I never said I was a libertarian. That was hypatia.

    I have said repeatedly that if there were any "political" label which fit my views, I'd say so.

    There isn't.


    You don't have to state it explicitly. I can tell by the things you espouse. And that's some progress, denying you are a "libertarian". I'll browbeat the Randiness out of you yet, or at least get you to do your proseltyzing on your own dime and time. People like you and Moonies and Jehovah's Witnesses, Scientology wingnuts, whatever have no problem with me as long as they worship in private, like normal people do. This is not something you can run to the ACLU about either. If you open the door I will ridicule, lampoon, denigrate, parody and satirize your ridiculous bullshit, religious or political, until you cry. It's my religion, baby! First Amendment!

    ReplyDelete
  146. Having just followed the Atrios/Kevin Drum thread a little further I get to Mr Kilgore of The DLC's analysis of the same list.

    It's quite detailed until he gets to this point

    "Then Atrios offers a few toss-offs:"

    Following which he lists the very things I quoted in my previous post.

    *Torture is bad
    *Imprisoning citizens without charges is bad
    *Playing Calvinball with the Geneva Conventions and treaties generally is bad
    *Imprisoning anyone indefinitely without charges is bad
    *Stating that the president can break any law he wants any time "just because" is bad.

    So not torturing people and respecting human rights and habeus corpus is now "a few toss-offs"

    I'm not sure I recognize this country anymore.

    ReplyDelete
  147. Anonymous11:47 PM

    *Torture is bad
    *Imprisoning citizens without charges is bad
    *Playing Calvinball with the Geneva Conventions and treaties generally is bad
    *Imprisoning anyone indefinitely without charges is bad
    *Stating that the president can break any law he wants any time "just because" is bad.

    All the rest is trivia. The fact that the entire country, independent of party isn't already on record behind this as if it were the Bill of Rights itself just points to how far we have fallen from the ideals that set our nation apart.


    I agree with every word of phd9's post.

    ReplyDelete
  148. Anonymous11:58 PM

    anon: Yes, you do that, love chops. I am sure they pay you to do that because your job opportunities are limited since you don't know how to read.

    Come back when you figure out how much 2+2 equals.

    Air kisses,
    Moi

    ReplyDelete
  149. Anonymous12:02 AM

    I will grant you this. In most of those evil countries, the ones with "those hundreds of millions of corpses" buried some pleace no one has ever found, they do not afford you the freedom to leave if you don't like it there. In fact, they have been known to shoot you for trying. They don't do that here. If you really don't like it here, vote with your feet and leave. If not, shut your mouth and enjoy the ride. But don't forget to pay your fare, this isn't communism, you know, and nobody rides for free. Unless they live on the street and walk everywhere. Those people are really free, not that you'd fucking whiners would ever know what true freedom was.

    ReplyDelete
  150. Anonymous12:02 AM

    Investigations?

    Subpoenas?

    Indictments?

    BRING. THEM. ON.


    O.K.

    ReplyDelete
  151. Anonymous12:07 AM

    EWO...I agree with every word of phd9's post.

    LMAO! Only a complete idiot wouldn't, but then you agree with Ayn Rand and only a complete idiot would.

    Now you know how to dance fast and go no place. 2 steps up and 2 steps back. That's simple arithmetic, too.

    ReplyDelete
  152. >If you really don't like it here, vote with your feet and leave. If not, shut your mouth and enjoy the ride.<

    I beleive there was something called "freedom of speech" codified into something called "the first amendment" which was written specifically to provide a defense against people who were told to "shut their mouth".
    Evidence suggests that it was put in place for a good reason.

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  153. The Land of the Free and the Brave, if you survive childbirth, maybe:

    CHICAGO - America may be the world's superpower, but its survival rate for newborn babies ranks near the bottom among modern nations, better only than Latvia.

    Among 33 industrialized nations, the United States is tied with Hungary, Malta, Poland and Slovakia with a death rate of nearly 5 per 1,000 babies, according to a new report. Latvia's rate is 6 per 1,000.....

    The U.S. ranking is driven partly by racial and income health care disparities. Among U.S. blacks, there are 9 deaths per 1,000 live births, closer to rates in developing nations than to those in the industrialized world.

    ReplyDelete
  154. Anonymous12:36 AM

    Hey, LYAO. If only an idiot wouldn't agree with what Phd9 said, how come about 90% of the country doesn't?

    Oh, I forgot. You don't know how to read. Do you have any (excuse me if this is hurts) friends who know how to read?

    If so, can you hand this statement to them (it?) and have it read to you?

    All the rest is trivia. The fact that the entire country, independent of party isn't already on record behind this as if it were the Bill of Rights itself just points to how far we have fallen from the ideals that set our nation apart.

    Meanwhile I am quite offended by this statement:

    (Huff. Quelle outrage if I have to say so moiself.)

    Take your "Big Gubmint" strawman back to the morons on the right... Oh. You can't. They don't like you anymore either.

    Please, if you have an ounce of mercy in you, do not accuse me of ever having been liked by the "right" or the "left".

    I swear on a Bible to you, t'aint so.

    I plead innocent. I am not now and never have been liked by either the "right" or the "left."

    Fortunately I don't stumble upon those
    mutant species too much in real life, so I can continue to break bread with all the humans I know.

    ReplyDelete
  155. Anonymous2:52 AM

    Looks to me like a lot of baiting going on. Bush's poll numbers keep sinking into the quicksand and the Repubs have nothing to fire up their base with. With the polls on Iraq in the toilet the likelihood is that an attack on Iran before the election might backfire. A terrorist attack will only show that Bush hasn't really protected the country afterall. So in desperation they are trying to get the Dems to committ to investigations and impeachment in the hopes it will fire up the base. My advice would be to recognize all the Repub noise for what it is and ignore it.

    The correct reply to the baiting IMO is this:

    Questions about investigations and impeachment are premature. First we have not attained a majority in the House and Senate as of yet, and won't know whether we will until we get the results in the November election. Second any investigation would have to be brought up and voted on in committee before it could begin. If it is decided that investigations are warranted then we will have to see where the facts lead us and then act accordingly.

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  156. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

    ReplyDelete
  157. Anonymous3:00 AM

    Eyes Wide Open said...
    Hey, LYAO. If only an idiot wouldn't agree with what Phd9 said, how come about 90% of the country doesn't?



    I don't no where you get the 90% figure, and I question it, as I do much of what you think, say and "feel" but your question does answer itself. I find most of your questions do, but you don't seem to think too well. Perhaps if you read the right books, you'd have your answers. Perhaps not.

    ReplyDelete
  158. Anonymous3:13 AM

    I don't Know where you get the 90% figure... and I don't have any mercy to spare for you. If I show mercy it's to those deserving it. Swearing on the Bible doesn't impress me. Swearing at it might. You don't have any idea where you'd score on the left/right axis or the authoritarian/libertarian axis. I think it's safe to say you would be unquestionably on the right, and more authoritarian than you'd like. Why don't you find out, or are you afraid of what you might learn about yourself?

    ReplyDelete
  159. Glenn, I thought about giving a critique of the media from the culture angle. I thought this might augment your comments about Clinton and the liberal media's preference for lifestyle issues versus real politics. I think this is a valid critique of the press, something that the conservative and neo-con attack on liberalism reflects correctly.

    But then I remembered your more important comments about clubbiness. I was thrown off a bit by your rejection of the economic aspects to media control. I agree with those areas of criticism of the press, but I think your point about clubbiness gets to something even more primeval.

    I see your comments about clubbiness in the context of some work I have done on the political dimensions of fear. As I have written about here before, I see a lot of truth to the old Socratic definition of courage as "knowing what to fear and what not to fear." In an older world, what has served as object of fear in political contexts is subsumed by the notion of authority.

    In the past, states inspire obedience in the subject by instilling a socialized fear towards the state through various forms of threats that inspire reverence and respect built on the more profound fear. Fear here spans a spectrum ranging from fear of one's parents to teachers to state authorities.

    This fear is healthy because it maintains everything from family to individual discipline and social cohesion. Historically, state authority has been buttressed by appeals to the divine. Think of the notion of the divine right of kings. The king/political authorities wield the most powerful weapons of state--power of life and death--because some divine reality supposedly gives the state this right.

    In the modern world, all forms of authority have come under attack. Indeed, we've reached a situation wherein there is no authority that can't be questioned from a rationalistic framework. This attack on authority has created a vacuum. Religious fundamentalism, fascism, and various forms of authoritarian rule try to fill the vacuum.

    In modern, secular societies the vacuum can also be filled by the group and its tendency to subsume individual responsibility. The fear that group belonging inspires comes from the fear of not belonging. The fear of not fitting in. The fear of being different. If you don't conform to the way the group thinks and acts, then you begin to feel weird and others shun you.

    What I think you say about clubbiness is this tyranny of fear that comes from being afraid of what others think about us. In your explanation of why journalists do not do their duty, you have identified this form of fear that engrosses the individual journalist in a type of group-think.

    What you have suggested in several places about respect for the law applies here as well. Respect for the law is a form of fear. It is a fear that is healthy because without it we'd be a society without direction or procedures for determining right from wrong and prosecuting those who do wrong.

    The clubby journalist should fear anytime s/he does not oppose unjust and illegal governmental corruption and abuse and attacks on democracy. By understanding that the true fear is that directed at the possibility of governmental abuses, the journalist will overcome that other fear that is the wrong type of fear, clubbiness.

    In knowing this true fear, the journalist will therefore be able to exhibit courage. The courage to be different, to rock the boat of the status quo, and to go it alone if one has to to identify the sources of injustice and evil.

    ReplyDelete
  160. Anonymous4:19 AM

    What Bart votes for when shrub raises taxes and what Hyfascia votes for no matter what. EWO can't make up his mind because Ayn Rand isn't on the ballot.


    National Platform of the Libertarian Party


    The 2004 platform is still as ridiculously extreme as its predecessors. It calls for legalization of baby selling, polygamy, secession, child prostitution, all drugs, insider trading, etc. It calls for abolition of public schools, medicaid, and Social Security, patents, and copyrights. And even privatization of air. All that and lots more, cloaked in vague statements of "liberty", and now carefully sanitized so that non-libertarians won't realize how truly extreme it is.

    ReplyDelete
  161. Anonymous4:32 AM

    Everything is simpler than you think and at the same time more complex than you imagine.

    Goethe


    The will to a system is a lack of integrity.

    Nietzsche

    ReplyDelete
  162. shooter242:

    That "fuzzy" math of Dubya's again:

    The left has been howling ever since the Supreme Court ruled 7-2 on the violation of the equal protection clause in 2000 election.

    Four dissents (count 'em). We got 11 Supreme COurt justices now?

    BTW, can you explain what "equal protection" guarantee was violated? In particular, pay note of the fact that the actual acts in question hadn't even happened yet ... as was pointed out in a couple of the dissents that said, "hey look, if there is any problem with the way the votes are counted when they're counted, we can deal with that wehe we actually have some facts to work from (or as Breyer said, the state courts ought to be able to handle it "if and when" such a thing showed up). Also pay attention to the additional fact that the supposed "remedy" was to leave the vote totals as certified, making sure that different methods of counting would be used in various different counties (if that is all you need to show to "prove" an EP violation). IOW, the "remedy" they came up with ensured that the very "equal protection violation" the per curiam opinion pretended to be so concerned about would in fact be left in place.

    Cheers,

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  163. Anonymous5:54 AM

    You don't have any idea where you'd score on the left/right axis or the authoritarian/libertarian axis.

    Not so fast, Private. I took that test (but only because it was optional to do so) and I got my "whiny rotter" certificate in the mail. When we get to the "Papers, Please" stage, think I can just show that and call it even?

    Here's a truth which has become more evident to me from reading the comments on this blog:

    It seems the single most frightening possibility in the entire world to most of the people on the left and right who post comments here would be a world in which nobody, especially government, had the legal authority to force anyone else to do anything unless there was some almost universally agreed to rational reason to do so in an attempt to maintain order, provide for a common defense, and uphold the sancity of voluntary contracts of various sorts entered into between individuals.

    And really, what the hell business is it of yours if a man wants to have 350 wives? How does it hurt you? Don't invite him (and the spouses) for dinner if you disapprove.

    What never ceases to amaze me is the concept that if A meets B and says "Hi! I'll leave you alone if you leave me alone", A is the one who is called a bully.

    I leave you with a song:

    Since my baby left me,
    I found a new place to dwell,
    It's down at the end of lonely
    street
    At Halliburton Hotel.


    Big Government. Gotta love it.

    ReplyDelete
  164. Anonymous6:00 AM

    Not only did we steal their land, we borrowed many of our concepts of polity, liberty, freedom and self-government from them. Then we proceeded to exterminate them. Or more precisely, the "proto-libertarians" and proto-Randians among us did. I wonder what the extremists at the Federalist society would make of this. EWO is enough of a hopeless romantic that he might enjoy this book. I wouldn't really know because I can't read.


    "Forgotten Founders: How the American Indian Helped Shape Democracy" by Bruce E. Johansen.

    C H A P T E R S I X


    Self-Evident Truths


    There were few ideas in the declaration (outside of the long list of wrongs committed by the Crown) that did not owe more than a little to Franklin's and Jefferson's views of American Indian societies. In drawing sanction for independence from the laws of nature, Jefferson was also drawing from the peoples beyond the frontiers of the new nation who lived in what late eighteenth-century Enlightenment thinkers believed to be a state of nature. The "pursuit of happiness" and the "consent of the governed" were exemplified in Indian polities to which Jefferson (like Franklin) often referred in his writings. The Indian in Jefferson's mind (as in Franklin's) served as a metaphor for liberty.

    Jefferson wrote to Edward Carrington January 16, 1787:

    "The way to prevent these irregular interpositions of the people is to give them full information of their affairs thro' the public papers, and to contrive that those papers should penetrate the whole mass of the people. The basis of our government being the opinion of the people, our very first object should be to keep that right; and were it left to me to decide whether we should have a government without newspapers or newspapers without a government, I should not hesitate a moment to prefer the latter. . . . I am convinced that those societies [as the Indians] which live without government enjoy in their general mass an infinitely greater degree of happiness than those who live under European governments."


    Echoing Franklin's earlier comment, Jefferson looked across the frontier and found societies where social cohesion was provided by consensus instead of by the governmental apparatus used to maintain control in Europe. Among the Indians, wrote Jefferson, "Public opinion is in the place of law, and restrains morals as powerfully as laws ever did anywhere." The contrast to Europe was obvious: "Under presence of governing, they have divided their nations into two classes, wolves and sheep. I do not exaggerate. This is a true picture of Europe." Returning to America, Jefferson concluded: "Cherish therefore the spirit of our people, and keep alive their attention."

    To Jefferson, public opinion among the Indians was an important reason for their lack of oppressive government, as well as the egalitarian distribution of property on which Franklin had earlier remarked. Jefferson believed that without the people looking over the shoulder of their leaders, "You and I, the Congress, judges and governors shall all become wolves." The "general prey of the rich on the poor" could be prevented by a vigilant public.

    Jefferson believed that freedom to exercise restraint on their leaders, and an egalitarian distribution of property secured for Indians in general a greater degree of happiness than that to be found among the superintended sheep at the bottom of European class structures. Jefferson thought a great deal of "happiness," a word which in the eighteenth century carried connotations of a sense of personal and societal security and well-being that it has since lost. Jefferson thought enough of happiness to make its pursuit a natural right, along with life and liberty. In so doing, he dropped "property," the third member of the natural rights trilogy generally used by followers of John Locke.

    Jefferson's writings made it evident that he, like Franklin, saw accumulation of property beyond that needed to satisfy one's natural requirements as an impediment to liberty. To place "property" in the same trilogy with life and liberty, against the backdrop of Jefferson's views regarding the social nature of property, would have been a contradiction, Jefferson composed some of his most trenchant rhetoric in opposition to the erection of a European-like aristocracy on American soil. To Jefferson, the pursuit of happiness appears to have involved neither the accumulation of property beyond basic need, nor the sheer pursuit of mirth. It meant freedom from tyranny, and from want, things not much in abundance in the Europe from which many of Jefferson's countrymen had so recently fled. Jefferson's writings often characterized Europe as a place from which to escape -- a corrupt place, where wolves consumed sheep regularly, and any uncalled for bleating by the sheep was answered with a firm blow to the head.

    Using the example of the man who left his estate to return to the simplicity of nature, carrying only his rifle and matchcoat with him, Franklin indicated that the accumulation of property brought perils as well as benefits. Franklin argued that the state's power should not be used to skew the distribution of wealth, using Indian society, where "hunting is free for all," as an exemplar:

    "Private property . . . is a Creature of Society, and is subject to the Calls of that Society, whenever its Necessities shall require it, even to its last Farthing, its contributors therefore to the public Exingencies are not to be considered a Benefit on the Public, entitling the Contributors to the Distinctions of Honor and Power, but as the Return of an Obligation previously received, or as payment for a just Debt."

    "The important ends of Civil Society, and the personal Securities of Life and Liberty, these remain the same in every Member of the Society," Franklin continued. He concluded: "The poorest continues to have an equal Claim to them with the most opulent, whatever Difference Time, Chance or Industry may occasion in their Circumstances."

    Franklin used examples from Indian societies rather explicitly to illustrate his conception of property and its role in society:

    "All property, indeed, except the savage's temporary cabin, his bow, his matchcoat and other little Acquisitions absolutely necessary for his Subsistence, seems to me to be the creature of public Convention. Hence, the public has the rights of regulating Descents, and all other Conveyances of Property, and even of limiting the quantity and uses of it. All the property that is necessary to a man is his natural Right, which none may justly deprive him of, but all Property superfluous to such Purposes is the property of the Public who, by their Laws have created it and who may, by other Laws dispose of it."

    Franklin, a believer in simplicity and "happy mediocrity," thought that an overabundance of possessions inhibited freedom because social regulation was required to keep track of what belonged to whom, and to keep greed from developing into antisocial conflict. He also opposed the use of public office for private profit. If officials were to serve the people rather than exploit them, they should not be compensated for their public service, Franklin stated during debate on the Constitution. "It may be imagined by some that this is a Utopian idea, and that we can never find Men to serve in the Executive Department without paying them well for their Services. I conceive this to be a mistake," Franklin said. On August 10, 1787, also during debate on the Constitution, Franklin opposed property qualifications for election to Congress. So fervent was his opposition to the use of public office for private gain that Franklin wrote in a codacil to his will, "In a democratical state there ought to be no offices of profit."

    ReplyDelete
  165. Anonymous6:13 AM

    EWO...Not so fast, Private. I took that test (but only because it was optional to do so) and I got my "whiny rotter" certificate in the mail. When we get to the "Papers, Please" stage, think I can just show that and call it even?

    You see what you miss in judging a book by it's cover, or a comment by who posts it? Even I read the first line to see if the person has a clue. If you had been paying attention, you'd know that isn't a test you took, but a merketing tool, and not worth the time and effort. I'm not going to repeat myself either. If someone else wants to toss you a bone, let them.

    Why would any man want 350 wives? You must be single. For the life of me I can't tell whether you are male or female. You must be a metrosexual... or French.

    ReplyDelete
  166. Anonymous6:16 AM

    ender said...
    Anon (who I wish would get himself a moniker as he is too funny and I would like to be able to surely identify him from the other anons) said...


    I may have to consider then, for you. I have refused to up until now solely because it annoys "certain others".

    ReplyDelete
  167. Anonymous6:27 AM

    ender said...
    To EWO and Anon -

    Hey I am late to the game tonight but is this Political Compass the "test" you two are referring to? If not it might be worth a visit. I found it interesting anyway.


    That's not the one EWO was referring to, although he may now claim he was. That's the one I was referring to. As these things go, it's the best of it's kind on two axes. The real exciting new stuff is an off-shoot of spiral dynamics. It's called Integral Politics. And don't kid yourself, they have all been looking into it. All the world leaders, Bush, Blair, Clinton, everyone. As far as my plot on that graph.... just look all the way down on the left in the corner. I make Ghandi look conservative.

    ReplyDelete
  168. Anonymous6:29 AM

    I may make Ghandi look conservative, but I am not a pacifist.

    ReplyDelete
  169. Anonymous6:39 AM

    Spiral Dynamics

    Spiral Dynamics argues that human nature is not fixed: humans are able, when forced by circumstances, to adapt to their environment by constructing new, more complex, conceptual models of the world that allow them to handle the new problems. Each new model includes and extends all previous models. According to Beck and Cowan, these conceptual models are organized around so-called vMeme: systems of core values or collective intelligences, applicable to both individuals and entire cultures.



    It's not something the monoscopic people (just black & white) and moral absolutists can deal with.

    ReplyDelete
  170. Anonymous6:43 AM

    Ender... Did I misunderstand this or did she just imply that "big government" was the cause of the evil that is Halliburton? Or that Halliburton = "big government"?

    Is EWO a she? And yes, s/he did. It's the failure of government because we elected people to govern us who do not believe in government, or good government, or any government, because they believe all government is evil.

    ReplyDelete
  171. Anonymous6:47 AM

    Ender...

    Here are my results.

    Economic Left/Right: -6.00
    Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.44



    Conservative! OK, maybe a moderate.

    ReplyDelete
  172. Anonymous6:54 AM

    I agree most of the time. Government can be wasteful, intrusive and even abusive. But the utopian idealism, (and even Bart gets this) of the "libertarian party" model is sheer lunacy. Freedom for the wolves means death for the sheep. Randianism (because objectivism is a faux philosophy)is just perverted narcissism and abject greed. If your police department is corrupt, do you abolish the police or clean up the corruption?

    Guess what Randians and libertarians would do? Privatize the police, and everything else.

    ReplyDelete
  173. Anonymous7:05 AM

    One last thought and then I'm off to bed. One of the things I like about spiral dynamics and integral is the revisiting of Skinner and Behaviorism, which had fallen out of favor for some time, going through phases of whatever, it was symbolic interaction when I was in school. Skinner was a bit nutty but I have always liked the way he proposed that leaders would be selected in his hypothetical utopia of Walden II. The guy who least wanted the job, he was the guy that got it. That always made sense to me. No man in his right mind wants to be president.

    ReplyDelete
  174. I love this blog. Mr. Greenwald is doing a signal service.

    however, it is surprising to me that no one on this thread, including Mr. Greenwald, has mentioned Chomsky's "Manufacturing Consent" or McChesney's "The Problem of the Media". (granted, I haven't read EVERY comment here, so please forgive me if i'm wrong.)

    The cultural, institutional and economic causes of the mass medias subversion of democracy is laid out very thoroughly in these books. alterman is very good on the subject as well.

    i've yet to find a compelling critique of either account. if anyone here knows of one, please let me know.

    russert's whoring is just another gas bubble popping on the surface of the ocean of bullshit the media generates on a daily basis.

    commercial media doesn't work for the citizenry and never has. for every anomaly like woodward and bernstein there are hundreds of important stories that have been suppressed. its not a perfect system, occasionally something true is printed, but for the most part it is a mechanism of control.

    what is new here? why is it surprising to anyone that murmurs of accountability will be vigorously shouted down by members of the media? they have everything to lose by transparency and accountability in government.

    ReplyDelete
  175. Anonymous8:38 AM

    Ender - you and I both -

    (Me: Your political compass
    Economic Left/Right: -4.88
    Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.03)

    - are right near the Dalai Lama and Nelson Mandela politically.

    ReplyDelete
  176. The left has been howling ever since the Supreme Court ruled 7-2 on the violation of the equal protection clause in 2000 election.

    The court only voted 7-2 for certiorari.

    They voted 5-4 aainst counting the votes on the grounds that to do so violated Bush's Fourteenth Amendment right to equal protection- no mention of Al Gore's right to equal protection.

    ReplyDelete
  177. Anonymous8:50 AM

    Here is what I could find quickly about Dan Burton's non stop investigations of The Clinton Administration. This why they are scared to have the Democrats in power. Great article Glenn , your clarity and lucidity is humbling and sooo motivating.Enjoy
    http://www.buzzflash.com/alerts/04/07/ale04021.html

    ReplyDelete
  178. Anonymous9:44 AM

    >> margaret: The idea of being a member of an elite in Washington is also true of the media, et al. There is a problem with snobbery

    And I see signs of the same thing happening in parts of the blogosphere. Certain bloggers are considered cool, and others might as well go hang themselves. Only one of the most popular bloggers consistently links to less well known writers. Would most of us have ever heard of Glenn Greenwald if it hadn’t been for John Amato?

    Carolyn Kay
    MakeThemAccountable.com

    ReplyDelete
  179. Anonymous9:47 AM

    "Noting that the Equal Protection clause guarantees individuals that their ballots cannot be devalued by "later arbitrary and disparate treatment," the per curiam opinion held 7-2 that the Florida Supreme Court's scheme for recounting ballots was unconstitutional. Even if the recount was fair in theory, it was unfair in practice."
    Looks pretty straightfoward to me.

    But then again, I'm not a lawyer.

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  180. See also John Dickerson's column on Slate, which thinks Nancy Pelosi just handed the Republicans' a big gift by saying among various things, the election will be about oversight.

    Another tool.

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  181. gris lobo:

    With the polls on Iraq in the toilet the likelihood is that an attack on Iran before the election might backfire.

    When all you have is a hammer, everything starts looking like a nail.

    Don't count out some Iran "emergency" and subsequent misadventuure in October. These folks (in case you haven't noticed) aren't particularly rational nor the sharpest tools in the shed, "decider"-wise. And by October, they may be pretty well desperate, to boot....

    Cheers,

    ReplyDelete
  182. eyes wide open:

    It seems the single most frightening possibility in the entire world to most of the people on the left and right who post comments here would be a world in which nobody, especially government, had the legal authority to force anyone else to do anything unless there was some almost universally agreed to rational reason to do so in an attempt to maintain order, provide for a common defense, and uphold the sancity of voluntary contracts of various sorts entered into between individuals.

    You're mistaken. Few people are afraid of libertarians (and there's oh-so-much else out there to be truly and rationally afraid of). OTOH, few people are libertarians (which may be part of the reason for a lack of urgency WRT libertarian politics), I think primarily because most people think that it's basically simplistic ideology run wild. Back when I was a undergraduate, we used to just make fun of the Randers ("Objectivists").

    Cheers,

    ReplyDelete
  183. Anonymous10:38 AM

    Salon's War Room is reporting another instance where the Bush Administration is trying to avoid ANY kind of oversight. To deal with an inspector general criticizing the loss of millions in the Iraqi reconstruction efforts, the White House got their friends in Congress to send oversight funding to another office that can't perform the oversight duties.
    These guys don't want to answer to anybody, and they don't care what happens in the messes they've made as long as no one criticizes them for it.

    ReplyDelete
  184. Economic Left/Right: -2.00
    Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.31

    ReplyDelete
  185. Be sure to note that it's -8.31
    My economic Left/Right tends to vary by mood but my Social Libertarain score remains stable.

    ReplyDelete
  186. anonymous:

    Jefferson's writings made it evident that he, like Franklin, saw accumulation of property beyond that needed to satisfy one's natural requirements as an impediment to liberty.

    Yeah, Jefferson was a commie. See here:

    "The earth is given as a common stock for men to labor and to live on. ... Wherever in any country there are idle lands and unemployed poor, it is clear that the laws of property have been so far extended as to violate natural right."

    See full text here.

    Some other thoughts of Jefferson.

    This "discussion" of Native American views is hardly new, either....

    Cheers,

    ReplyDelete
  187. Anonymous11:31 AM

    Arne Langsetmo said...
    anonymous:

    Jefferson's writings made it evident that he, like Franklin, saw accumulation of property beyond that needed to satisfy one's natural requirements as an impediment to liberty.

    Yeah, Jefferson was a commie. See here:


    Oh, please! Paine was the commie! Tommy was just a Democratic Socialist...


    Great Jefferson quote posted by Jonathan Schwarz at tinyrevolution (last August) and linked by someone linked by someone else, etc etc.... I've long since lost track.

    As he says, it's one you don't see cited a lot during your "education."

    "Men by their constitutions are naturally divided into two parties: 1. Those who fear and distrust the people, and wish to draw all powers from them into the hands of the higher classes. 2. Those who identify themselves with the people, have confidence in them, cherish and consider them as the most honest and safe, although not the most wise depository of the public interests.

    In every country these two parties exist, and in every one where they are free to think, speak, and write, they will declare themselves. Call them, therefore, Liberals and Serviles, Jacobins and Ultras, Whigs and Tories, Republicans and Federalists, Aristocrats and Democrats, or by whatever name you please, they are the same parties still, and pursue the same object. The last appellation of Aristocrats and Democrats is the true one expressing the essence of all."

    ReplyDelete
  188. sunny:

    [Shooter242 lied]: The left has been howling ever since the Supreme Court ruled 7-2 on the violation of the equal protection clause in 2000 election.

    The court only voted 7-2 for certiorari.

    Not sure even that is true (but I can't find the cert. decision in Findlaw). The lie about the "7-2" decision was assisted by a flaccid media who read quickly and reported even more quickly, and quickly turned into a talking point by the RW foamers. It got its genesis from the majority opinion proclaiming what the opinion of the dissenters was. Fortunately, this is (still) a free country, and the four dissenting justices get to say for themselves what their opinion is, and a reading of their opinions shows no sign that they agreed with the cowardly per curiam on any of their opinion (this is indicated by such language as "concurring as to part <*x*> but dissenting as to part <*y*>" or concurring as to part <*x*> but dissenting with respect to the holding [or remedy]). The four dissenters said simply: "Dissenting".

    Cheers,

    ReplyDelete
  189. Anonymous11:37 AM

    This "discussion" of Native American views is hardly new, either....

    Not to us, perhaps... :) Hypatia though.... I first became familiar with it years ago by reading about William James Sidis who made this argument almost 100 years ago, when he was 12.

    ReplyDelete
  190. shooter242:

    You might go to the original source. There you'll find four opinions that begin with the words: "DISSENTING".

    You ignored my other comments.

    From your source:
    Even if the recount was fair in theory, it was unfair in practice. The record suggested that different standards were applied from ballot to ballot, precinct to precinct, and county to county....

    IF this was such a "problem", it's inexplicable that the U.S. Supreme Court ordered that the "certified" results be adopted (except for the fact that such "certified" results gave Dubya the victory). Because, you see, the "certified" results included manual counts from the counties where such had been conducted in the protest phase, but in other counties, such weren't done at all. IOW, the results mandated had the very constitutional "violation" the SCOTUS professed to be so hot and bothered about. Strangely enough, the events that the cowardly per curiam claimed must necessarily be unconstitutional hadn't even happened yet (the recounts they stopped hadn't even begun, so any claims that they would be unconstitutional if they occured were entirely speculative). This is quite contrary to normal judicial practise, which is to allow the actual facts to develop before ruling. And, as Breyer so accurately pointed out, it could be handled "if and when" if occured. But this is something the intellectually dishonest per curiam couldn't allow to happen ... the result they wanted might be in danger of an actual fair state-wide count.

    Then I'd point out the curious flip-flop of conservatives such as Rehnquist WRT the showing required to make an "equal protection" claim. If you're black, you have to show "invidious discriminatory intent" in any such EP claim, but if you happen to be named Dubya (discounting as well that Dubya himself wasn't a Florida voter and had no standin to make any EP claim), just the theoretical and abstract potential of some slightly arbitrary (but not necessarily purposeful; that would have required some actual facts, you know) treatment of ballots is a per se "equal protection" violation. Nevermind this "theory" makes pretty much every election since time immemorial unconstitutional (since most jurisdictions [including Dubya's Texas, in a law he signed] favour manual recounts).

    Is that enough to show the fundamental dishonesty of the per curiam opinion in Dubya v. Gore?

    Yes, you're not a lawyer. It shows.

    Cheers,

    ReplyDelete
  191. Anonymous1:20 PM

    Seven Justices of the Court agree that there are constitutional problems with the recount ordered by the Florida Supreme Court that demand a remedy. See post, at 6 (Souter, J., dissenting); post, at 2, 15 (Breyer, J., dissenting). The only disagreement is as to the remedy.

    Like I said originally 7-2.

    Oh and by the way, the Jefferson quotes about land? They were made when all of France was owned by one man, the king. Any use regarding land ownership in modern time is of course, fraudulent.

    ReplyDelete
  192. shooter242:

    Seven Justices of the Court agree that there are constitutional problems with the recount ordered by the Florida Supreme Court that demand a remedy. See post, at 6 (Souter, J., dissenting); post, at 2, 15 (Breyer, J., dissenting). The only disagreement is as to the remedy.

    Like I said originally 7-2.

    If you were paying attention, you'd see that I have claimed (with quite some justification) that the majority doesn't get the privilege of deciding what the opinion of the dissenters is. If you're of that mind, you'll certainly allow me the right to determine that you think you're an eedjit. Fair 'nuff?

    Cheers,

    ReplyDelete
  193. shooter242:

    Oh and by the way, the Jefferson quotes about land? They were made when all of France was owned by one man, the king. Any use regarding land ownership in modern time is of course, fraudulent.

    OK. Count the number of times Jefferson mentioned "king" in there. For that matter, explain why the logic of his analysis should depend on whether the land is owned by a single person or just a few....

    Oh, and "fraudulent" is rather harsh language, wouldn't you say?

    Cheers,

    ReplyDelete
  194. Anonymous4:01 PM

    Arne Langsetmo said...

    "gris lobo:

    With the polls on Iraq in the toilet the likelihood is that an attack on Iran before the election might backfire.

    When all you have is a hammer, everything starts looking like a nail.

    Don't count out some Iran "emergency" and subsequent misadventuure in October. These folks (in case you haven't noticed) aren't particularly rational nor the sharpest tools in the shed, "decider"-wise. And by October, they may be pretty well desperate, to boot...."

    It could happen, I just don't consider it likely. I would worry about it more after the election if the Repubs maintain their majority in the House and Senate.

    ReplyDelete
  195. Anonymous1:07 AM

    Dianne Feinstein has been a corporate pig since the day she was first elected to the San Francisco Board of Supervisors back in 1969.

    I say that as someone who spent a considerable bit of time working for one of her fellow Democrats on the Board of Supervisors who used to regularly excoriate her in the privacy of his office - and he was joined in those words by every other progressive Democrat in the entire city of San Francisco. And we worked against her as much as we could back then.

    Feinstein is like Bush - she wasn't particularly well-liked, and then a tragedy - the assassinations of Mayor George Moscone and Supervisor Harvey Milk - cast her into a position of public leadership, an occasion to which she arose as Bush did standing on the rubble of Ground Zero the week after 9/11. The difference is that afterwards, she didn't manage to piss off the majority of the voters in the city with gross stupidities the way Moron Boy did with his invasion of Pandora's Box.

    I only ever voted for Dianne (those of us who worked around her back in the day can call her by her first name) in 1994, when she was staving off Arianna Huffington's attempt to jump herself up to Senatorial Wife by putting her moron husband in the Senate (I still don't trust Arianna any further than I can see her with my eyes closed, since I know for a fact she was indeed a member of an organization she has spent the past 20 years denying she ever even knew of - we were both members of it - she was smart like me and left, but her continued denials put the lie to her public image of "living life with integrity").

    Unfortunately, it was unsuprising to hear her decide as she did. What would have been surprising would have been if she had decided otherwise.

    ReplyDelete
  196. Bravo, Glenn. Keep calling bullshit on the Democratic media elite!

    ReplyDelete
  197. Anonymous3:37 PM

    I will be VERY pissed off if they DON'T have investigations!
    Plus I want to see them scumbags be marginalized and sidelined just like they are treating OUR party now! Threaten to take away the filibuster from them and just treat them like crap in general.
    They no longer deserve a voice, they have abused their chance at running it all.

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  198. I am very concerned about the appeasement noises coming from the some of the Democrats.
    Appeasement when you are a frightened minority is one thing,
    Appeasement when you are riding high is indefensible.
    Clinton made a huge mistake by not pursuing Iran Contra.
    It is highly unlikely that the "W" presidency would ever have happened and we wouldn't be burdened with a White House that is a half way house for Iran Contra criminals.
    I spoke with Rep. Jim McDermott.
    He doesn't think Democrats are going to give these guys a pass.
    He said we can stop some of the stuff that is going on if we regain the House.
    Regaining the Senate will give them subpoena power and he believes they can put an end to the Bush rampage.
    Perhaps it's up to us to force the feckless Democratic leadership to fall in line with the McDermotts and Feingolds.
    Truth never destroys anything worth keeping.

    resetnow.blogspot.com

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