I have no idea whether Porter Goss is involved at all in the Duke Cunningham/prostitution corruption scandal, and I also have no idea whether that had anything to do with his highly unusual, unexpected and abrupt resignation. And neither does the national media know one way or the other if it does. Nonetheless, as Laura Rozen points out in an excellent post, the media (consistent with its tragically typical practice) has reported Goss' resignation primarily by mindlessly and uncritically passing on the White House's (highly suspect) version of what happened as though it is unchallengeable fact:
So, the verdict is in. According to the WP, the NYT, the LAT, Time, etc. Goss was forced out yesterday after months of tension between him and John Negroponte over the CIA's reduced turf, and that President Bush lost confidence in Goss "almost from the beginning" (WP).
As Laura points out, Goss appeared this entire time to be an administration loyalist, and there was nary a peep of complaint from administration supporters about him. Quite the contrary; especially with his aggressive obsession with weeding out whistle-blowers (as opposed to enhancing our intelligence capabilities), he was the toast of the hardest-core Bush followers. This notion that is now being peddled that he was somehow on the outs from the beginning and that his resignation was therefore just some sort of inevitable outcome of those tensions is very difficult to believe. But the White House says it is so, and so, the national media -- as usual -- recites it as fact, even though they know there are multiple other possibilities, some of which are quite tawdry and embarrassing, as to why Goss might have resigned.
I was in a bookstore this morning and sitting on top of a row of books was what appeared to be a used copy of a book entitled The Starr Report -- along with Commentary from the Staff of The Washington Post. I picked it up and opened it to a random page, and the first passage I saw was a two-paragraph, higly clinical description of how Monica Lewinksy arrived at the White House at some exact time on some date, saw President Clinton, told him that she had smoked her first cigar and gave him one as a present, and then proceeded to perform oral sex on him. But he didn't ejaculate, because, he told her, he did not know her well enough yet. She then left. That was the entire passage. I put the book down after reading that.
Things of that nature -- Henry Cisneros' mistress, Vince Foster's murder, Bill Clinton's oral sex practices -- were the crux of our "national news" for years during the Clinton administration. The national media reveled in it. They couldn't get enough of it. They were simultaneously titillated by it and excited at the opportunity to show how morally offended they were by all of it. The filthmonger Matt Drudge, along with sewer elves like George Conway, his then-girlfriend Laura Ingraham, and his current wife Kellyanne Conway -- complete with the Matt-George online AOL chats about penile spots and other pressing matters -- were the ones driving the news; they were the journalistic standard-bearers.
Mysteriously, all of that has come to a startling halt under the Bush administration. Republicans under this administration have been caught up in all sorts of scurrilous and embarrassing scandals, as Digby partially chronicles here and here. Those scandals have received little attention, and the media still treats this administration as though they are beacons of moral rectitude.
Indeed, the media thinks this administration deserves such intense respect that criticisms of the President are deemed rude and cowardly, and any stories that are too dirty and humiliating should, out of a sense of basic decorum and decency, be ignored. Then again, 9/11 changed everything, we are a Nation at War, and anything that harms the Commander-in-Chief harms the United States of America and helps Our Enemies. So the drastic changes in journalistic practices all make perfect sense.
UPDATE: This new article from CNN is a perfect example of this journalistic failure. Amazingly, the article quotes Goss himself as describing his resignation as "just one of those mysteries," but CNN then proceeds to report -- based exclusively on anonymous administration sources -- that there is nothing mysterious about the resignation at all. It is merely exactly what the White House said - a personnel change brought about by bureaucratic infighting.
Thus, we are told things like this:
Intelligence sources have told CNN that Goss' resignation on Friday was triggered by differences with National Intelligence Director John Negroponte over plans to move staff, including analysts from the CIA's counterterrorism center, to other intelligence agencies.
And this:
A senior administration official said Goss' resignation was based on a "mutual understanding" between Bush, Goss and Negroponte.
"When you ask somebody to do very difficult things during a period of transition, it often makes sense to hand off the reins to somebody else to take the agency forward," the senior administration official said.
Why is CNN allowing "senior administration officials" to pass along the official White House version of events while hiding behind a cloak of anonymity? All that does is enable the White House to use CNN as a venue to voice its propaganda while casting the appearance that it is the by-product of investigative journalism and therefore bestowed with credibility (as in: "CNN learned this from its secret leaking sources so it must be true"). The whole article does nothing but repeat White House spin as though it is established fact, relying exclusively on White House sources to do so, and never once even suggests, let alone details, that there are other possibilities to explain the resignation aside from the one the White House is giving.
By definition, that is not journalism. That is stenography. And the affinity which our national media has for the latter, and their equally intense aversion to the former, is so pervasive that it is hard to hold out hope that this will change.
UPDATE II: Some research undertaken by Kevin Drum casts further substantial doubt about the White House's explanation that Goss' resignation was due to a turf war with John Negraponte.
For those in the Comments section who misunderstood the point of this post, allow me to make it again. The point is not that we know that Goss' resignation was due to a connection to the Cunningham scandal rather than because of the turf war claimed by the White House. The point is precisely that the media does not know why Goss resigned, and therefore should not be reporting the White House's explanation as though it is clearly true, particuarly given that the media knows there are other possibilities, which they are keeping from their readers/viewers.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/5/5/194558/7271
ReplyDeleteGlenn,
Check out this diary at Kos-- there might be a gay aspect to Hookergate. We'll see how the party of 'family values' copes with that news....
Seriously...I have no problem if the MSM stays away from the hooker aspects of the story. Reading about Clinton's escapades was boring enough.
ReplyDeleteBut the press won't stay away. They're just slow getting there.
But I know we can win on the facts and on ideas and I'd prefer that we do so. We don't need to spend any time on the sexual peccadillos of bureaucrats.
Like the idea that there is something really wrong about the fact that a limo company owned by a guy with a 62 page rap sheets got a $21M contract from DHS.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteSeriously...I have no problem if the MSM stays away from the hooker aspects of the story. Reading about Clinton's escapades was boring enough.
ReplyDeleteIf that is the reason that Goss had to quit, that ought to be reported. It doesn't mean that the tawdry details need to be or should be harped on or even chronicled - although under the Clinton administration, they always were - but if Goss resigned even in part because of connections to that scandal, then the media shouldn't be reporting that his resignation was simply part of the "personnel shake-up" due to Josh Bolton, or that it was the by-product of tensions with Negraponte.
They ought to report the truth, and if they don't know the truth yet, they ought to say so.
Or they could write articles and broadcast stories about how "the blogosphere" is speculating on the connection of Goss' resignation to the Cunningham prostitution scandal, so that the public is at least aware that there is a possible connection. Listening to most news reports, one would have no idea that this resignation is anything other than the by-product of a routine turf war.
Porter Goss left because he wanted to spend more time with his family.
ReplyDeleteEveryone knows that.
Meanwhile, when the biopics of some of the very top people in this government and governments abroad are being cast, I suggest Mira Sorvino for the lead.
She already starred in the Pre-quel.
Good thing most of our officials like to go golfing to those private European get-a-ways with Tom Delay and stay out of trouble.
Completely unrelated:
How many football fields did they say the George Bush Palace currently being built in Iraq is equivlant to?
Glenn-
ReplyDeleteI am starting to really believe that there is a gay-hooker aspect to the story. If it were female hookers, you know they'd be all over the news. Hell, Neil Cavuto would probably even lead with it on Fox. Good for ratings you know. But as we all remember from the Jeff Gannon chapter, the MSM was terrified to touch that story because it was about naughty gay sex. Can't keep a straight face and tallk about gay hookers on TV.
Of course, there's always the possibility that the White House press corps has it right...however, if you prefer to believe that these professional journalists are in bed with the administration (thus explaining his sky-high approval ratings and all the stellar coverage he gets), I can't stop you...
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteFirst, this is a premature complaint since we don't yet know the reason that Goss quit; if it turns out to be related to a prostitution scandal, I'm confident we will will hear more about it than we care to.
ReplyDeleteYes, David - that was the whole point of my post: that we don't konw the reason for the resignation. The very first line of my post said exactly that. That is why the media should not be reporting that the resignation was due to bureaucratic infighting, nor should it be passing along the White House explanation as though it is fact. Did you even read my post?
Third, Clinton was the president and that is different; if Bush were involved in a sex scandal you would surely read all about it.
Oh - so it's news when the President is involved with a sex scandal but not the CIA Director? What an interesting standard. What possible rationale would explain that?
And if that's so, how do you explain the 10-year investigation into Henry Cisneros' mistress, then? He was just a lowly HUD secretary.
Of course, there's always the possibility that the White House press corps has it right...
ReplyDeleteThe point is that they don't know.
however, if you prefer to believe that these professional journalists are in bed with the administration (thus explaining his sky-high approval ratings and all the stellar coverage he gets), I can't stop you...
You can only keep the truth from poeple for so long. The media's passivity allowed this administration to maintain sky-high approval ratings for years; it is only recently that it has plummeted to these embarrassing depths, despite the media, not because of it.
We invaded Iraq with the vast majority of the country believing that Saddam personally planned the 9/11 attacks. Leave aside the media's wholly incredulous reporting on the WMD claims. Can you explain how you can maintain that the media is hostile to the Bush administration when it allowed 70% of Americans to believe a patent myth - that Saddam planned the 9/11 attacks? Wouldn't an anti-Bush media have prevented that from happening?
Cynic Librarian, I think you'll enjoy taking this War Against Terrorism Christmas Quiz (scroll down to the big picture --anyone ever see this?--on this site and the quiz is below it) and maybe you can help out with test score results for others who take it.
ReplyDeleteThose of you with a hankering to read some down and dirty trash about Hookergate, go see go see check out http://www.rawstory.com/news/2006/Gannon_comes_out_Former_escort_conservative_0505.html.
ReplyDeleteOr rather, try to go see those links. The site has been down since mid-afternoon Eastern time yesterday. Hear tell they're changing servers or some such.
The GOP-leaning big media only love DEM sex scandals, not sex scandals that could hurt themselves and their GOP handlers.
ReplyDeleteLimos and hookers and bribes, oh my!
ReplyDeleteThe Great Decider’s appointment leaves under a cloud, after just 19 months. Clinton’s appointment served seven years, and received the Presidential Medal of Freedom.
I can’t wait until the kids take over again. These grow-ups are killing us.
Glenn,
ReplyDeleteYou're actually questioning CNN about its reporting of what the White House has released? Lord knows that last thing that the American public would need is the White House’s unedited response to a situation or event. You know the White House, the place that is probably most informed, next to Goss himself, as to why he is resigning in the first place. What if he is just resigning for the reasons given, it isn’t stenography or propaganda as you suggest, but reporting the facts. I know you, like me, are not accustomed to the MSM, much less CNN, actually just reporting the facts without spinning it into some projectile against an Administration they hate. So I’m guessing that is what irks you, that they could have just listed all of these unsubstantiated theories & completely ignored the people who would know per usual, but didn’t this time. It really isn’t telling about CNN, Goss or the MSM as a whole, however it is more telling about what you expect from them & your natural pre-disposition towards the Administration that is in full view.
Check out this diary at Kos-- there might be a gay aspect to Hookergate. We'll see how the party of 'family values' copes with that news....
ReplyDeleteI'm inclined to agree. Think Mayor West in Spokane. Hyper macho guy, Army, Nam vet... you know the drill.
David Shaughnessy said...
Yes, Glenn, I did indeed read your post: You are bemoaning the dearth of sexual rumormongering by the Mainstream Media per Goss' resignation and you are obliquely suggesting that there is a conspiracy against the Democrats (or a double-standard at least). I got it. For the reasons I stated, I disagree with you.
Do you know who Laurie Klausutis is? Probably not. But you have heard of Chandra Levy and Democratic congressman Gary Condit, right? Just imagine if Chandra Levy had been found dead in his congressional office, like Klausutis was found dead in Joe Scarborough's office.
Joe got a gig with MSNBC. What did Gary get?
Nope. No double standard there.
Do you know who Laurie Klausutis is?
ReplyDeleteMake that "was". She's dead.
Pmain:
ReplyDelete>You know the White House, the place that is probably most informed, next to Goss himself, as to why he is resigning in the first place<
ROFL...
The White House, the one place dedicated to presenting the truth to the American people, honestly, openly and with complete disregard for the polical consequences of such information becoming public.
What have you been smoking?
I have a brief message. The press is destroying our nation.
ReplyDeleteS. "Ballsolicious" Colbert
...or as best I can remember Colbert said at the very beginning of his WH press conference
ReplyDelete"Ceaser's wife must be above rapproach."
ReplyDeleteThis isn't about straight sex, gay sex or even relatively accepted "sexual pecadillos" in 2006 like someone visiting a hooker. It's not an issue of "gotcha" or salacious curiosity.
It has long been known that members of the intelligence community can be compromised if they engage in illegal actions or actions so far out of the norm that they subject themselves to possible blackmail.
Blackmail in the intelligence community isn't usually done for money.
High level intelligence officers are in a position to commit actions, under pressure, which may have a disastrous impact on national security.
It's the individuals with the very highest levels of security clearance who most have to be willing to conduct themselves as Caeser's wife.
These people are being paid to protect the nation's security. They cannot do so if they involve themselves in scandals that would subject them to blackmail of various sorts.
If a man visits a hooker that's one thing. If someone tries to blackmail him, he can call the police and report the person for extortion. The police aren't going to faint from shock to find out the guy visited a prostitute.
That's not the case in the Duke Cunningham type of illegal activities that you cannot allow to get out or they will ruin you.
Actions taken which involve others who thereafter have control of you
because you gave them a sweetheart contract because they supplied you with call girls and things of that nature are real threats to national security.
That is why the MSM should look into this story to determine that none such issues are involved.
If they're not, they can drop it. But from the little that's already been seeping out it seems like these may not be merely isolated "tsk tsk" incidents, but part of a larger pattern. That becomes a scandal worth investigating in the intelligence community.
Remember when CNN was the Condit News Network? 24x7. Condit Condit Condit. Just the *hint* of sex with a Representative and wall to wall coverage.
ReplyDeleteFor 6 years we've been told that the Clinton-Bush double standard of news coverage was due to the lack of a sexual aspect. Well, you can flush that excuse down the toilet with all the rest.
The reality is simpler. It has everything to do with who owns the media.
The sheer gall and hypocrisy is mindboggling! On the same page where Glenn lambasts Allahpundit, etc. for complaining about MSM failing to report rightwing rumors about the mental stability of the Rumsfeld heckler, he complains that MSM is failing to report leftwing rumors about Goss consorting with gay prostitutes!
ReplyDeleteMark Crispin Miller has been down this road before...
ReplyDeleteMark Crispin Miller Examines Mainstream Media's Blind Eye Towards the Gannongate Sex Scandal
As have others. Glenn is absolutely right. Perhaps more people will start to be convinced that there is something terribly wrong with this picture.
Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteThe sheer gall and hypocrisy is mindboggling! On the same page where Glenn lambasts Allahpundit, etc. for complaining about MSM failing to report rightwing rumors
When was the last time a right wing rumor proved to be true?
Have Joe Wilson and Valerie Plame been indicted, finally?
Some sources tell the San Diego Union Tribune that Goss’s resignation was related to the Cunningham bribery scandal. Other sources toe the official line and tell the paper Goss’s resignation was completely unrelated. (The San Diego Union Tribune recently won a Pulitzer Prize for its coverage of the Cunningham scandal.)
ReplyDeleteCredit where credit due:
ReplyDeletereuters does some responsible reporting, relaying the fact that
The White House denied a report in the Washington Post that cited senior administration officials as saying that Bush had lost confidence in Goss and had decided to replace him months ago.
"Reports that the president had lost confidence in Porter Goss are categorically untrue," White House spokeswoman Dana Perino said as Bush flew to Oklahoma State University to deliver a commencement address.
Congressional aides have described growing talk in recent days about unhappiness with Goss, not only with his leadership, but also with reports of connections between CIA executive director Kyle "Dusty" Foggo and a bribery scandal that led to the jailing of former California congressman Randy "Duke" Cunningham.
The Washington Post reported that Foggo, whom Goss elevated to the senior post, had attended poker games with a military contractor linked to the Cunningham case.
The CIA inspector general has been investigating Foggo and the newspaper said the probe includes whether he arranged any contracts for the contractor. The Post also reported that Foggo told colleagues he planned to resign next week and he has denied any impropriety.
A CIA spokesman declined to comment.
That is certainly all I would ask of them. There is a strain to the antagonistic comments here that goes something like "oh glenn all you want is for the press to jump on the sex thing". That's not it at all. What Glenn and the rest of us want is for the press to not put its hands over its eyes and hum when there's a story that might reflect badly on the administration.
The Clinton "scandals" were driven by the media and by the army of "elves" who were constantly calling them with salacious half-truths and juicy tidbits that reporters could use to bolster their egos by getting a scoop on the President. When they don't get it handed to them with a cherry on top, we don't hear about it. That's bullshit.
Everybody wants to be WoodStein, but nobody seems to know that getting a story requires digging and seeking honest sources. Mark Felt was a friend of Woodward's who he knew to be honest and trustworthy, even if he undoubtedly had an obscure personal agenda. Can Judith Miller say that of Scooter Libby? And can any bit reporter at CNN honestly think that senior administration officials would be dripping out anything other than leaks that benefit the, um, administration?
It's not about sex, it's not about revenge, it's not even about politics. It isn't always he said she said, and everybody always has an agenda. A reporter's job is to take all of the conflicting information into account, check it twice, and report the most likely version of the truth.
That is what we want, the truth, and I'd think the starched collar defenders of the daddy party would be gunning for that as well. For a bunch of people who spent the last thirty years complaining about relativism you administration defenders sure seem inclined to take advantage of it when it suits your purpose.
San Diego. That's a "liberal" town if there ever was one. 9snark/off)
ReplyDeleteSources at odds; turf war, Wilkes fallout cited in CIA chief's exit
Poway contractor's role is disputed
It is really quite simple. The Bush Family Evil Empire are not shy about aggressivly punishing journos who might have the temerity to go after them with the truth. Reporters have been fired (Gary Webb) pushed out (Dan Rather) and possibly even killed (Danny Casolero) for trying to disseminate hard truths about these people and their dirty huge secrets. After a while, it is unnecessary to take further action-the reporters are suitably cowed and in their place.
ReplyDeleteI agree completely with Glenn's posting. If I might add anything, I think the best possible interpretation I can give to the press' stenographic reportage is that they feel they learned their lesson after the Clinton scandal, ie, that scandal mongering without facts is immoral...
ReplyDeleteOMG Writing that I just realized how stupid that sounds. That is, the juxtaposition of "press" and "morality" strikes me as absurd.
paul rosenberg: Can it really be that everyone on the right has read everything by Michael Crichton, and nothing by John LeCarre?
ReplyDeleteYou mean technophilia versus moral ambiguity and angst? Aren't you asking a bit much from a mind-set that sees the world in black-white, us vs. them, clearly defined Manichean terms?
OTOH, has anyone noted that one of the Right-wing faves, Tom Clancy, wrote the foreword to Gen. Zinni's book? Having other reading habits and prerogatives, I haven't had a chance to look at Zinni's book or Clancy's foreword, but if I were rightists I might find that an important incentive to look at Zinni's argument.
The MSM is never really hostile to whatever Administration has the White House. They know which side their bread is buttered on and they act accordingly.
ReplyDeleteOnly if a President self-destructs by himself in front of the nation does the MSM start to feel obligated to join the public chorus of disapproval.
But they have to be dragged there, kicking and screaming.
The MSM was not hostile to either Clinton or Bush.
The Clinton "scandal" was deliberately provoked by Clinton himself. Nobody ever stopped to ask themselves "Why?"
Most people are actually very lousy detectives. If you tell them "The butler did it" they believe you.
Will the day ever come when people catch on that they guy to keep their eyes on is Edger Bergen and not Charlie McCarthy?
Probably not.
The Daily News has the story.
ReplyDelete- CIA Director Porter Goss abruptly resigned yesterday amid allegations that he and a top aide may have attended Watergate poker parties where bribes and prostitutes were provided to a corrupt congressman.
Kyle (Dusty) Foggo, the No. 3 official at the CIA, could soon be indicted in a widening FBI investigation of the parties thrown by defense contractor Brent Wilkes, named as an unindicted co-conspirator in the bribery conviction of former Rep. Randall (Duke) Cunningham, law enforcement sources said.
BTW, add your own examples of intimidation of journos, but let us not forget the huge majority of editors, who hold the power to kill a story, change/edit a story, or place it on the back page, are overwhelmingly Republican; not to mention the corporations who own them.
ReplyDeleteFrom the Top
What Are the Politics of Network Bosses?
By Jim Naureckas
While David Croteau's study demonstrates that Washington journalists are to the right of the general public on many economic issues, it needs to be stressed that the personal views of news reporters do not translate directly into the slant of news coverage. Reporters have editors or producers who play a key role in how the news is presented; these editors and producers in turn are overseen by higher-up news executives, part of a hierarchy that eventually culminates in the chief executive officer of the corporation that owns the news outlet.
But those who specialize in scrutinizing the private opinions and voting habits of reporters rarely talk about the personal views and political activities of the CEOs who run the corporations those reporters work for. This omission is somewhat puzzling: If anyone's biases are manifested in news coverage, it's more likely to be the person who has the power to hire and fire, not the underlings whose paychecks are dependent on their superiors' approval.
Go here
CNN is the true propaganda ministry for BushReich, subversive scum that they are. For that matter, all of Time/Warner is corrupt and tainted.
ReplyDeleteTW CEO, Frank Parsons is Cheney's pissboy.
Fuck CNN. They're all paid Bush lapdancers and repegnant baldfaced liars (with the singular exception of Jack Cafferty). News you can trust to be more lies.
CNN:WORSE THAN FOX.
anon @ 4:20pm: CNN:WORSE THAN FOX.
ReplyDeleteAnyone notice how CNN has just hired rabid rightists like Bennett and Glenn Beck? This follows on the heels of polls showing that Faux News is the "most trusted" news source in the US.
Glenn says:
ReplyDeleteThey ought to report the truth, and if they don't know the truth yet, they ought to say so.
Or they could write articles and broadcast stories about how "the blogosphere" is speculating on the connection of Goss' resignation to the Cunningham prostitution scandal, so that the public is at least aware that there is a possible connection.
Let me get this straight.... you're assuming that the official version is false, and that the media should report it that way? And if that isn't likely, at least publish the rumor and innuendo running around the blogosphere?
I'm disappointed. I was hoping you were a responsible individual.
shooter said:
ReplyDeleteLet me get this straight.... you're assuming that the official version is false,
We here in the reality based community always view official versions of any story as suspect. And as we know, reality has a well known liberal bias...
Let me get this straight.... you're assuming that the official version is false, and that the media should report it that way?
ReplyDeleteYup....The BS detector siren is just wailing away. And it hasn't been wrong yet.
Let me get this straight.... you're assuming that the official version is false, and that the media should report it that way?
ReplyDeleteI'm going to try this one more time, because I honestly think it's not a difficult point to understand, so I must not be conveying it clearly (although please see Paul Rosenberg's 100% accurate description of the point I am trying, very hard, to make).
I am not assuming that the "official version" is untrue. But there are lots of reasons to think it might be untrue - including the existence of multiple other plausible alternatives. Therefore, the media -- which is assuming that the official version is true and is reporting it as fact -- is acting irresponsibly and deceitfully. They are passing on the "official version" as true even though there is ample reason to suspect that it is not true. That is the very opposite of how the press is supposed to act.
And if that isn't likely, at least publish the rumor and innuendo running around the blogosphere?
The connection to Cunningham is more than mere "rumor and innuendo." Josh Marshall's TPM has gathered the facts which suggest a strong basis for believing that Goss has some connection. At the very least, his close aide, whom he hired, clearly has a connection, and many believe that that played at least a factor in his resignation.
The fact that a close aide of the CIA Director is caught up in a prostitution and corruption scandal is certainly news. If the media is going to pass on the White House version, they also ought to pass on alternative views.
It's mystifying how many people on this thread are so eager to accept the "official line" apparently without question. How they're actually OFFENDED by the notion that anyone should dig for facts that may be counter to what the Administration proclaims.
ReplyDeleteWhy? Is it that you WANT to live in an absolute monarchy? Does that give you some kind of comfort, some stability?
Why would you not want to make sure that the people you elect and whose salaries you pay with your taxes are making decisions with your welfare in mind, rather than their own enrichment?
- mercury
Let me get this straight.... you're assuming that the official version is false, and that the media should report it that way?
ReplyDeleteThe official version asserts that this resignation was long in the coming. There is no evidence to support this and the resignation was a total surprise to those working under and with Goss. Furthermore there was no replacement lined up to be announced as there would be in a long-expected resignation. Coupled with Goss' known links to the corruption scandal and there is certainly reasonable doubt. All of this was known before the official stories went to print, but was not even remarked on by most sources. Clearly they don't care, don't know, or didn't try. They even added a false respectability to the official story by pretending it came from sources rather than unofficial press releases. Bullshit. All bullshit. Incompetent stenographer fuckwits.
Glenn, this explanation provided by VetGirl on dailykos seems to answer the question about the state of the current news coverage.
ReplyDelete"Republican administration is a better deal"
So said Sumner Redstone, CEO of Viacom, in 2004:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6173187/site/newsweek/
"From a “Viacom standpoint, the election of a Republican administration is a better deal,” Redstone told an audience of CEOs in Hong Kong in late September, “because the Republican administration has stood for many things we believe in, deregulation and so on.” In the widely-reported remarks, he added: “I vote for what’s good for Viacom.”
That attitude really sums up all the lack of coverage. To criticize this administration is to bite the hand that feeds them.
VetGirl seems to hit the nail on the head with this comment.
Forgive me for a bit of a tangential comment here about the general sins of our media, but I tend to believe that journalists very often lean left--because a defining characteristic of liberals is their desire to seek out the truth; I also believe that media management and owners tend to lean right because of what they value most-- power and personal gain.
ReplyDeleteSo why is it that we who value truth don't give face and name to those media bigwigs whose decision it was to cover up, spin, or outright omit the big story of any given day? If they won't allow the citizenry the full and unvarnished story, why shouldn't they become the story? They are undercutting democracy, after all, denying it of its very lifeblood; they are the highest verifiable betrayer of journalistic ethics and the public's trust.
The administration undoubtedly uses juicy carrots and sharp sticks to prompt hesitant media 'deciders' into seeing things their way. I feel that these highest-level, media accomplices should be made to feel pressure from those who value truth, as well. Perhaps this could lead to us getting more of the information that an actual democracy requires. Or am I dreaming?
sandals said:
ReplyDeleteThe official version asserts that this resignation was long in the coming. There is no evidence to support this and the resignation was a total surprise to those working under and with Goss. Furthermore there was no replacement lined up to be announced as there would be in a long-expected resignation.
Let's not forget the fact that he had a meeting at the Pentagon, scheduled for later in the day. This was an complete shock and reporters know it, which exposes their contempt for the truth.
If anyone's biases are manifested in news coverage, it's more likely to be the person who has the power to hire and fire, not the underlings whose paychecks are dependent on their superiors' approval. (sunny 4:19 PM)
ReplyDelete"From a “Viacom standpoint, the election of a Republican administration is a better deal,” Redstone told an audience of CEOs in Hong Kong in late September, “because the Republican administration has stood for many things we believe in, deregulation and so on.” In the widely-reported remarks, he added: “I vote for what’s good for Viacom.” (MOBlue 5:17PM)
It is because of the above that I believe it is more meaningful to reference the "establishment media" than the "mainstream media."
These days Republicans are running the show, and if you want to keep getting invited to these functions, you have to maintain good relations with those in power. (Armagednoutahere 5:29 PM)
Even Matt Sludge now has a headline (linked to a NY Daily News article:
ReplyDeletePAPER: CIA CHIEF TIED TO CONTRACTOR'S POKER PARTIES; HINTS OF BRIBES AND WOMEN
(Who said anything about only "women"?)
This is all just too delicious to be true. How do you spell crash & burn?
Perhaps most media honchos at one time or another availed themselves of the Cunningham - Wilkes - Wade "hospitality suites" featuring whores of a convenient gender, or drugs, or additional services yet to be revealed.
ReplyDeleteAs a result, Rove can now threaten to out any of them at a moment's notice. Voila, instant obedience to the administration storyline.
The poker games seem to me a perfect way for the contractors to get the payoff money to the politicians and CIA procurement officer. What do you think?
ReplyDeleteNotwithstanding the red-meat of Glenn's partisan post, the media's disintegration is not party-driven, it is caused by corporatization and its corollary, obsequience to power.
ReplyDeleteFor whatever reason (personally I think it's because any mention of the Lewinsky matter sends you off into irrational land), you are reading all kinds of things into my post which simply aren't there, which is causing you to attribute views to me which I do not maintain.
I agree with what you said here about the media entirely (in the part I excerpted above) and never said otherwise. I don't think the media treats Bush with reverence because they are Republicans. They treat him with reverence because they revere and coddle power - because it gives them access, helps their careers, makes them feel important and included in the significant circles, and because the Beltway status quo treats them well and they therefore are moved to defend it. All of those corrupting motives transcend and are independent of ideology and partisanship.
Nonetheless, nobody can reasonably claim that the media treated Clinton with reverence. The empty, nonexistent Whitewater matter and then the Lewinksy scandal dominated every part of the news. The media mauled the Clintons over all of these things. He had no virtually no defenders in the media, who, with virtual unanimity, hated him.
There are ways to square the premises in the first paragraph (that the media reveres political power) with the facts set forth in the second (that they were extremely critical of the Clintons). But YOUR explanation -- that "the media's disintegration is not party-driven, it is caused by corporatization and its corollary, obsequience to power" -- doesn't reconcile those two things, because the media displayed everything but "obsequience" to Clinton when he was at the height of his power.
David Shaughnessy - Kool-aid drinker.
ReplyDeletesunny said...
It is really quite simple. The Bush Family Evil Empire are not shy about aggressivly punishing journos who might have the temerity to go after them with the truth. Reporters have been fired (Gary Webb) pushed out (Dan Rather) and possibly even killed (Danny Casolero) for trying to disseminate hard truths about these people and their dirty huge secrets.
Casolero was murdered, that's an open case, and not in dispute. Inslaw case. Less known is the case of Steve Kangas who was found dead on the 39th floor of his enemy's doorstep at 11:30 PM on February 8 1999. In the bathroom of the offices of Richard Mellon Scaife, 2000 miles from home, -- in Pittsburgh PA. Shot twice in the head. Speaking of shooting oneself in the head twice...
The Sacramento coroner's office, which has been deluged with phone calls about the incident, issued a statement Tuesday confirming that Webb had been shot two times in the head. In an article published today (12/15/04) in the Sacramento Bee, county coroner Robert Lyons said, "It's unusual in a suicide case to have two shots, but it has been done in the past, and it is in fact a distinct possibility."
Only truly naive people don't think you can get killed for knowing too much or refusing to stop snooping around. When the Clinton's were in office, none of the kool-aid drinkers would ever STFU about Vince Foster and Ron Brown. Now, it's all just "conspiracy theories".
Glenn says:
ReplyDeleteAnd if that's so, how do you explain the 10-year investigation into Henry Cisneros' mistress, then? He was just a lowly HUD secretary.
LOL. And that would be the Barrett Report that:
* Was finished in 2004,
* Was sitting on the judges desks until 2006,
* Had it's funding altered by Senators Kerry, Dorgan, and Durbin,
* Was the subject of no less than 140 motions by David Kendall, the Clintons personal lawyer,
* Is rumored to be an expose of IRS manipulation by the commisioner and personal friend of Hillary,
* Subject of, was personally pardoned by Clinton......
* Had 120 of 684 pages kept secret from the public under pain of judicial citation,
That report? Gee that sure is a lot of back room, high official, under legal duress, stuff for a lowly HUD secretary.
Glenn, There's an aspect to this story that is not getting much airplay. Behind the salacious and prurient headlines, in government scandals there is often much more than T&A. That appeals to the mass audience but the backstory may be hum-drum and less sexified but much more insidious in its implications for our freedoms.
ReplyDeleteThe aspect to the Goss story that I refer to involves several assumptions: Hayden is a Cheney man. Goss' abrupt resignation involves the fact that he was not living up to Bush's expectations. I suggest that this means that Goss wasn't as gung-ho about plans for how the CIA should interface with DHS as Bush/Cheney felt he needed to be.
With these assumptions in the background, Goss' strange exit is a set-up for Hayden's nomination. I suggest that Goss found working under the Bush/Cheney agenda simply more ethically problematic than he could have imagined. He was not willing to play along with the types of intelligence gathering/snooping/torture practices that Bush/Cheney have been pursuing for some time.
But getting rid of Goss was probelamtic for Bush/Cheney. Here was a guy who was a Republican fave and who was on a mission to clean up the CIA that most Reps, along with Bush, agreed with. But the clean-up itself didn't go far enough in Bush/Cheny's eyes.
From the earliest days, that supposed streamlining effort to improve the faults that led to bad info on Iraq was pure sideshow to keep our eyes off the real story: the alignment of the CIA with a radical DHS totalitarian-style agenda. The outlines of this agenda are quite unclear to us as of yet. They include warrantless wiretapping and arrests, rendition and torture, etc. I think, however, that the agenda is much more far-reaching and extreme than even these practices indicate.
Anyway, to get rid of Goss and install Cheney's man, Bush and Negroponte needed to create a smoke-screen. The Cunningham scandal was just what the doctor ordered. Under the impending scandal of whores, booze, and gambling stag parties, Bush/Cheney could get Goss to resign by threatening him with the stink of scandal attaching itself to his name and legacy.
Born at the Crest of the Empire suggests a further reason for Goss' exit. Crest ties up some of the loose ends in this scenario explaining Goss' exit:
[S]uddenly, maybe by side effect, Dick Cheney holds fairly direct sway over all the intel gathering in the US. ... (And I know that Goss wasn't particularly hostile to Cheney's viewpoint, but now we're looking at another level of devotion beyond the law. Michael Hayden managed and defended the dubiously legal NSA warrantless wiretapping which was Cheney's baby. John Negroponte famously managed the death squads in Central America, and you know Rumsfeld and Cambone.) [my emphasis]
Glenn's and the moonbats continued fascination with Bill Clinton's penis and Monica, when did she first swallow, Lewinsky continues unabated.
ReplyDeletePosts and comments are getting really thin here of late.
Says the "Dog"
Richard Mellon Scaife
ReplyDeleteShooter242 said...
ReplyDeleteZzzzzzz
Never a link from Shooter because if you track back to where he gets his misqbbdninformation, it all goes to one place, and dribbles out through Freep and NewsMax etc.
Richard Mellon Scaife
Posts and comments are getting really thin here of late.
ReplyDeleteSays the "Dog"
7:55 PM
Why are you here, again?
Akansas Project
ReplyDeleteWe don't need a corresponding Texas or Connecticutt project. These clows shoot their own feet off, when they aren't shooting their friends in the face.
Conspiracy theorists (like Shooter) allege that ...
ReplyDeletethe public will never know the full truth, due to alleged bipartisan suppression of evidence, but there are some things that have been learned during the long investigation that are of worthy of mention. An internal IRS whistleblower, John J. Filan, alleged systemic, internal IRS corruption, possibly explaining the curious handling of the IRS' review of Cisneros. [3] It is also of note that Janet Reno limited the scope of the investigation to one tax year, raising questions about the willingness of the Clinton Justice Department to allow the independent probe to act independently and seek out the truth.[4] Its also worth noting that the Bush administration found these assertions of a coverup to be completely unfounded.
As it stands, the Barrett Report was released with 120 pages removed judicially in accordance with Federal law, prompting unfounded rumors that it had been done to protect the Clinton Administration, the IRS, and the Justice Department from allegations of negligence, systemic corruption and abuse of power. In the end, the American people were left with more questions and allegations than when the investigation was begun.
Paul Rosenberg says:said...
ReplyDeleteThe 800-Pound Gorrilla
Eyes Wide Open makes a very important point: sex scandals in the intelligence community aren't just sex scandals. They are, by definition, security scandals.
This is absolutely true. I have here an object lesson, in just such a risk. From Vanity Fair's profile of Joe Wilson.......
Meeting in Paris, London, and Brussels, they got very serious very quickly. On the third or fourth date, he says, they were in the middle of a "heavy make-out" session when she said she had something to tell him. She was very conflicted and very nervous, thinking of everything that had gone into getting her to that point, such as money and training.
She was, she explained, undercover in the C.I.A. "It did nothing to dampen my ardor," he says. "My only question was: Is your name really Valerie?"
Yes, Valerie Plame was undercovers, and thank God, Joe Wilson's lips are on our side.
Shooter242 @ 8:36 PM
ReplyDeletehas finally become a parody of himself, and a tawdry and poorer one at that.
The Barret report...
A less biased and distorted and perhaps more credible account goes something like this...
Conspiracy theorists allege that the public will never know the full truth, due to alleged bipartisan suppression of evidence...
Pardon me while I laugh....
it is also worth noting that the Bush administration found these assertions of a coverup to be completely unfounded.
As it stands, the Barrett Report was released with 120 pages removed judicially in accordance with Federal law, prompting unfounded rumors that it had been done to protect the Clinton Administration, the IRS, and the Justice Department from allegations of negligence, systemic corruption and abuse of power.
David Shaughnessy said...
ReplyDeleteI disagree. CNN was pro-Clinton. Indeed, that set the stage for the emergence of FOX.
Heh. Indeed.
I hope you brought enough Kool-aid for everyone.
Fortunately for Shaughnessy he is new to blogging, so we can't comb through his blog posts to get a clearer picture of his transformation into the slowly recovering kool-aid drinker he presents here today. The residual effects are strikingly prominent and still in the acute stage. Does any body know what name he posts or posted under over at Freep.
ReplyDeleteHas Shaughnessy ever checked into Who Owns What to test his hare-brained hypotheses on the "liberal media"?
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteAs a follow-up to the "wild-assed" scenario I proposed above, I think a recent US News and World Report indicates the extent to which the Department of Homeland Security is transforming domestic spying. Some of the important changes include the following:
ReplyDeleteSince 9/11, the U.S. Departments of Justice and Homeland Security have poured over a half-billion dollars into building up local and state police intelligence operations. The funding has helped create more than 100 police intelligence units reaching into nearly every state.
To qualify for federal homeland security grants, states were told to assemble lists of "potential threat elements"--individuals or groups suspected of possible terrorist activity. In response, state authorities have come up with thousands of loosely defined targets, ranging from genuine terrorists to biker gangs and environmentalists.
Guidelines for protecting privacy and civil liberties have lagged far behind the federal money. After four years of doling out homeland security grants to police departments, federal officials released guidelines for the conduct of local intelligence operations only last year; the standards are voluntary and are being implemented slowly.
The resurgence of police intelligence operations is being accompanied by a revolution in law enforcement computing. Rap sheets, intelligence reports, and public records are rapidly being pooled into huge, networked computer databases. Much of this is a boon to crime fighting, but privacy advocates say the systems are wide open to abuse.
These changes reflect some things that I covered at my blog. The salient points I made there include an ethos of distrust among the populace toward each other, as well as toward people who don't seem to fit in.
But the outline of the domestic terrorist program outlined above go far beyond simply looking for the odd-balls. It evokes and tries to maintain control over public behavior and activities that fit the prevailing paranoid policies of an incipient police state.
The dividing line between domestic and overseas spying used to be pretty hard to broach. As recent reports show, however, with the establishment of DHS, this hard line has deteriorated. This in and of itself should be troubling to us. Yet, the changes underway in harmonising and consolidating intelligence activities goes far beyond anything that the press has yet covered or dealt with.
With the nomination of Hayden as porposed head of the CIA, the consolidation of power between domestic and overseas intelligence activities will be complete. I do hope that our senators and representatives understand the implications of what is afoot at DHS.
David Shaughnessy said...
ReplyDeleteGlenn:
The quality of your comment section is deteriorating.
The comment section at your blog... how's that doing?
Glenn says:
ReplyDeleteI'm going to try this one more time, because I honestly think it's not a difficult point to understand, so I must not be conveying it clearly
Actually I think we understand that you believe there is an alternative story, which may very well be true. The part I'm having difficulty with is that you believe the MSM should report salacious innuendo as if they are the National Enquirer.
Therefore, the media -- which is assuming that the official version is true and is reporting it as fact -- is acting irresponsibly and deceitfully. They are passing on the "official version" as true even though there is ample reason to suspect that it is not true. That is the very opposite of how the press is supposed to act.
Assuming events have not progressed past this post... Glenn, the only version of what happened that is verifiable to a source is the official version. Let me put it another way... There is not enough hard evidence to report anything else - yet. I have no doubt that whatever is being reported has the caveat that it is the official version. Not that it is the final true story.
Until someone with verifiable sources or the reputation to lend credence to speculation, sticking one's neck out on a national forum is risking the professional suicide of Dan Rather. The general idea is that the MSM has a stricter standard than the blogosphere.
If the media is going to pass on the White House version, they also ought to pass on alternative views.
Whose alternative views? Loretta down at the corner store? Homer at the feed store? Consider this, not knowing what "hookergate" was in reference to, I left it alone and assumed I'd find out more as posts progressed. What started out as "Hookergate", then took a turn to the gay side, then I saw a reference to the number three guy playing poker, then both Goss and the number three guy were playing poker, then there was talk about the limousine owner, then..... well you get the idea.
One of the limitations of the MSM is time. Newspapers have to consider that what they print at 11:00PM has to be true the next morning if at all possible. Even TV has to have a credible story to build on. Meanwhile the blogosphere can go hither and yon following the thread wherever it leads. The MSM has to be slow and sure, or else it loses what credibility it has left.
Passing on alternative views is irresponsible, passing on alternative facts is journalism.
Shaughnessy: Indeed, the most brilliant strategem of the Clintonistas was to exploit that scandal fatigue by blaming Ken Starr and everyone else in the world for making the country endure the incessant coverage of the Clinton scandals.
ReplyDeleteGoogle "The Clinton Scandals" and the number one hit is NewsMax.
I saw Glenn's reply to you before he scrubbed it. Glenn, and the many other posters here who attempt to engage you in honest debate, do you a disservice. As long as the debate with an alcoholic in denial goes on, he is safe from an ugly intervention. He may aslo postpone the inevitable hitting bottom, with nowhere to go but up, and possibly sobriety. Cult deprogramming is analogous. You find comments like this uttered frequently at interventions and deprogrammings...
"The quality of your comment section is deteriorating."
... because the issue of your denial of the root cause of the problem is no longer on the table for debate. I'd have to agree, in part, with Glenn's first response, which I will not repeat, but also say that I recognize you have very few other places to go, aside from back to your own blog to drink alone.
(Cross-posted at FDL)
ReplyDeleteYesterday, in the comments at FDL, I speculated that the Goss connection to Hookergate gate might be a planted rumor to distract from some other reason for firing Porter Goss. And it has just enough truth in it, via Goss’s friendship with Dusty Foggo, to give it legs for a week or two, and let those who want to believe it remain in denial afterwards.
This morning I woke up to Porter Goss telling reporters that it will remain a ‘mystery’ why he was fired.
Think about that for a moment.
You’ve just been fired, by the President, because you’ve been caught associated with a scandal involving escorts, gambling, drinking, possibly drugs, and possibly accusations of homosexual solicitation.
Do you:
A) Go to the press; tell them ‘It’s a mystery’ why you were fired; and tell them that no one will ever know, thereby challenging them to investigate why you were *really* fired and ensuring that all the embarrassing details *will* come out;
or,
B) Go along with the cover story provided by the administration — that it’s time to move on and hand the reins to someone else, having successfully managed the transition from the previous CIA director?
Seems pretty clear that the answer is ‘B’.
Which means that whyever Goss was fired, it’s not something *Goss* is embarrassed about.
It’s the Bushies that are embarrassed, and evidently pissed (which I’ll get to in a moment). And Goss wants it investigated by the press, wants whatever is to come out, and wants to further embarrass the administration.
Interestingly, this also explains the weird dichotomy of yesterday’s press op with Porter and George.
As I also noted yesterday, if Goss had done something really egregious or embarrassing, Bush would not have allowed a photo op to take place. OTOH, if there’s nothing embarrassing about it, then why the surprise, why the suddenness?
I still don’t know what it is, but it’s becoming more and more clear that whatever Goss was fired for, it’s not because of either the officially given reasons or the Hookergate/Dusty Foggo/Watergate II associations.
I’ll have to leave that for some other enterprising reporter to determine. My guess would be that it has something to do with torture or domestic spying, perhaps of political opponents and reporters, that Goss knows about and either refused to implement (unlikely) or threatened to leak (more likely).
Whatever it was though, it left the Bushies too vulnerable to just toss Goss with only a smear campaign, and too pissed to remember the niceties like saying Goss wanted to move on or spend time with his family.
I can’t wait to find out what it is they are actually covering up — I’m pretty sure it ain’t Foggo though, or at least not only Foggo.
(P.S., here’s another theory. What if it wasn’t Goss who wanted Dusty in the number 3 position at CIA? What if it was someone at the WH who demanded Dusty’s promotion? And Goss refused to take the fall for it?
That would certainly both embarrass and tick off the administration, while also making it imperative to both fire Goss and treat him with kid gloves.)
Actually I think we understand that you believe there is an alternative story, which may very well be true. The part I'm having difficulty with is that you believe the MSM should report salacious innuendo as if they are the National Enquirer.
ReplyDeleteNo, Shooter. We should leave the cable channels alone. The constant reporting on missing white women being devoured by sharks off the beaches of Aruba are what's keeping the gas prices down. Women are too scared to drive alone. Carpooling is up.
Bookmarked the "2005 Wiretap Report" from the Administrative Office of the United States Courts. Released 01 May 2006, but the link no longer works?
ReplyDeleteDon't fret, you can always count on The Memory Hole. They now have a downloadable version of the report, which was expunged Administrative Office of the US Courts website.
Click here to access a version of the report at The Memory Hole
David Shaughnessy: "Finally, the Democrats are hardly in a position to take aggressive stands on sex scandals post-Clinton."
ReplyDeleteActually, they are. After all, it was the Republicans who made sex scandals fair game, much to their chagrin when Hyde, Livingston, and Gingrinch all got exposed as philanderers.
Oh yes, after the way this "Christian" administration has treated women the world over-if they are doing this too, it most certainly needs to come out.
ReplyDeleteI don't wish to hear it blow by blow-Glenn, I laughed because that's about as much as I could read of that episode too. But prostitutes, she-males and the Watergate Hotel?
Certainly these evangelicals need to hear what they really support. They want complete secrecy but want the rest of us to open medical files, submit to warrantless search and seizure ect.
No way, let the presses roll...
JGabriel said...
ReplyDelete(Cross-posted at FDL)
No offense to the commenters at FDL in general, or you in particular, and it is an interesting theory, but sometimes the speculation on these maters over there gets even too byzantine for me.
The poker and the sex is secondary to the bribery and the government contract corruption. The billions these folks have wasted is treasonous. This is CIA contracts.
ReplyDeleteBreaking the Silence, By Michael Hirsh, Newsweek, Wednesday 22 March 2006(A prominent former insider is criticizing the administration's handling of Iraq's reconstruction. And there's more to come.) “IG is looking at 57 possible cases of corruption and fraud with more arrests coming” --"the biggest corruption scandal in history."
I guess this is DOD contract corruption.
EVERY DEPARTMENT & BRANCH OF OUR GOVERNMENT has the biggest corruption scandal in history!!
It is very upsetting to me because America is such a great country, and these bozos have just done everything they can to try to destroy it - everything we have stood for that has made us great just isn't shining through.
I don't even care about being #1 any more. I just want our honor and virtues back. They are there still, but we cannot go on much longer.
I really have doubts that Gen. Hayden will be approved by the Senate. Bush will probably do a recess appointment.
WANTED TO BRING THIS TO YOU ATTENTION - JUST IN CASE YOU MISSED IT - OR I MISSED SOMETHING THIS WEEK:
FreeMarketNews.com
May 2, 2006
LAST week the U.S. House of Representatives voted 327 to 96 in favor of passing a national intelligence bill reminiscent of laws created in police state nations, according to OnlineJournal and other sources.
The bill, HR 5020, proposes to create a number of sweeping changes to intelligence agencies in the name of stopping terrorists and securing top-secret information. The House Bill has several provisions to crack down on intelligence leaks, but critics are concerned that the legislation will be used to hide information from the public and target journalists. Anyone who receives intelligence leaks could be subject to sanctions including people in the media, and government workers could have their pension assets confiscated if they are involved with an information leak.
Opponents of the bill argue that the bill could also transform the nation’s intelligence agencies into policing agencies by giving them extra powers. The CIA was created in order to conduct foreign operations, however one controversial section of the bill would grant the CIA and NSA authority to arrest Americans in the U.S. for any felony, regardless of a crime’s relevance to national security. The bill would also make it clear that it is legal for the CIA and NSA to conduct warrantless wiretaps and arrests.
shooter: The part I'm having difficulty with is that you believe the MSM should report salacious innuendo as if they are the National Enquirer.
ReplyDeleteActually, the news media have pretty become a rich cousin to the trailer trash NE. Watched CNN for a day? It's no different from NE except for the pretty faces and commercials. Indeed, I've been thinking of writing CNN and telling them their daily coverage should be retitled, the morning traffic report, since all they cover anymore are crashes.
But that is doing them a disservice, isn't it? Their reportage is now filled with what one news reporter great calls the news version of Jerry Springer.
So don't tell me the news is implementing rules and standard operating procedures that they learned from being manipulated by the great Clinton sound machine. What they've learned is that selling news is a branch of the entertainment industry, ergo the disaster stories, children lost/found, car crashes, aberrant sex, etc.
No, Shooter. We should leave the cable channels alone. The constant reporting on missing white women being devoured by sharks off the beaches of Aruba are what's keeping the gas prices down. Women are too scared to drive alone. Carpooling is up.
ReplyDelete10:30 PM
What was Shaughnessy saying about the political reporting on the cable news channel being in it's infancy? It's gone straight from infancy to senility.
So don't tell me the news is implementing rules and standard operating procedures that they learned from being manipulated by the great Clinton sound machine. What they've learned is that selling news is a branch of the entertainment industry, ergo the disaster stories, children lost/found, car crashes, aberrant sex, etc.
ReplyDelete10:40 PM
I'd love for a forensic acct, to go over the books for the last 15 years. It's all about the money, the bottom line. Real news and analysis costs money and they are all about ad revenue.
Passing on alternative views is irresponsible
ReplyDeleteDa! Komrade Kommisar!
Paul Rosenberg started out on this blog by kinda sorta attacking me because of something I had written about him which kinda sorta must have seemed to him as an attack.
ReplyDelete(This is not to suggest his main motivation wasn't simply his disagreement with statements I had made.)
Anyway, my first reaction to Paul Rosenberg was that he was the hapless victim of some bizarre form of neurolinguistic programming fetish that led him to salivate over the concept of installing a Government controlled by a Mammoth Robotic Poll Meister who sat in a throne and ruled his domain by ordering up a bunch of polls and then figuring out how to best use that information to control people and rule them "benevolently" according to Paul's concept of "benevolence."
I decided that to read anything further by him (because he often writes fairly long posts) would fall under the category of cruel and unusual self-inflicted punishment.
But as I was scrolling by some of his subsequent posts a funny thing happened on the way to the forum.
I couldn't help but notice that he has what I can now see is an incredibly fascinating mind.
Also, he's unusually smart.
So about a week or so ago, I started my own investigation into the mind of Paul Rosenberg which I am conducting by analyzing his thought patterns by reading his written words which appear online.
I am glad to see he's not totally scrolling by me and he commented on my observation that sex scandals in the intelligence community are more than sex scandals: they are likely to be security scandals and thus are more than tangentially related to many of the most worrisome aspects of what is going on now in our Government. Both parties.
I hope Paul will be here to read my post when I conclude my investigation into his mind.
Even now, I think I see the problem. Early on in the formulation of his political theories he makes what I consider to be an error in logic which then leads him to accept certain things as factual. I don't think they are.
Anyway I sure do find him extremely fascinating on many different levels.
On to shooter:
Why does everyone on this blog always dismiss everything he writes equally when some of the things he writes are rather
interesting?
I know he can be obnoxious and has a little greenish aura about him, but still.....
As an example:
* Was the subject of no less than 140 motions by David Kendall, the Clintons personal lawyer,
* Had 120 of 684 pages kept secret from the public under pain of judicial citation
Is this factual? Why would Clinton's personal lawyer be filing so many lawyers on behalf of Henry Cisernos? That strikes me as very odd. Does anyone have any idea what David Kendall's hourly rate is?
Finally, Glenn writes:
I am not assuming that the "official version" is untrue. But there are lots of reasons to think it might be untrue - including the existence of multiple other plausible alternatives.
Glenn is talking about Goss there and I agree.
But why are so very few people willing to think outside the box when it comes to the Clinton scandal (and many other "generally accepted" truths including matters you can throw them into Google and come up with 45,000 conspiracy theorists's theories about them but not one of those touches upon things which are, to my mind at least,highly plausible other alternatives.
In fact, in my own mind, they are more likely to be determinative than merely plausible.
Tomorrow I will write, if I survive myself, about the movie "Heathers" and why I think that almost everyone on this blog seems to have a mindset that suggests they view that movie not as a biting satire but as as a slice-of-life documentary.
This would explain why when I have pointed out that Orin Kerr, in my opinion, is a very excellent example of a subtle and high-level attempt on the part of a highly intelligent person (and one whom I in some ways respect) to be able to generally escape undetected as he conducts his career doing exactly what Glenn and others here identify so accurately as the basic modus operandi of the MSM.
I think Orin's initials are very apt.
But nobody has ever understood what I am talking about, not even hypatia.
One last thing: a commenter observed he was sort of annoyed that he had to buy so many copies of Glenn's books to distribute to so many people because the MSM had failed to do its job.
I look at it the opposite way. I am not annoyed at all---I am eternally grateful to Glenn for having written such a book so I can give one to everyone I know and save myself the aggravation of trying to enlighten them as to what is really going on.
Most of them, despite my sometimes exhaustive efforts, don't seem to really "get it" or be alarmed enough and I figure if Glenn's book won't get them to "see it", nothing I could ever have said or done would have been effective.
It lets me off the hook in terms of my duty to this country and saves me a lot of time.
Anyway, the MSM would never have focused on and written about the same things in the same way as Glenn does.
For one thing, they don't have the same value system he does, and for another they are not as geniunely patriotic.
Cynic: 9:54. Great post except I disagree somewhat with the last sentence.
ReplyDeleteI believe they fully understand the implications and that is why they remain silent. They are not opposed to what is happening--they support it.
Why does everyone on this blog always dismiss everything he writes equally when some of the things he writes are rather
ReplyDeleteinteresting?
I know he can be obnoxious and has a little greenish aura about him, but still.....
As an example:
* Was the subject of no less than 140 motions by David Kendall, the Clintons personal lawyer,
* Had 120 of 684 pages kept secret from the public under pain of judicial citation
Is this factual? Why would Clinton's personal lawyer be filing so many lawyers on behalf of Henry Cisernos? That strikes me as very odd. Does anyone have any idea what David Kendall's hourly rate is?
Sigh...
But why are so very few people willing to think outside the box when it comes to the Clinton scandal
Heavy sigh...
I didn't and don't like every little thing about Clinton, mostly he was a centrist, and frustrated in his attempst by the right and extreme right, but if you stayed "in the box" that the right, and the media that they control, framed for you, you voted Republican next time, like Shaughnessy. Now you come around here bitching and moaning. It's going to take lots more than a blow job and some creative responses as a deponent in a trumped up civil suit to get me to change my core political beliefs. If that were the case, I would have voted for Reagan when I found out what a bounder JFK was. I don't give a shit. Just yesterday on one of the cable shows that isn't 24/7 mising white women, probably that clown, Matthews, (because Olbermann wouldn't be that dense), Tweety admitted the much vaunted "Clinton scandals" amounted to a whole lotta nuthin'. But most of us here always knew that. I expect you will hear this meme more frequently now. Listen for it. To suggest that any part of the MSM was pro-Clinton during that time, is ludicrous.
I really can't believe how disgusting the MSM has become.
ReplyDeleteAfter living through the REAL
Watergate, when newspapers went after Nixon and his cabinet, it makes me angry that we are setteling for the crap written today and spewed on tv.
Were did the good reporters and joournalists go???
the cynic librarian said...
ReplyDeleteActually, the news media have pretty become a rich cousin to the trailer trash NE.
i.e. the opium of the masses
Let me say it simply and plainly.
ReplyDeleteThere is no "liberal bias" in the MSMedia. Never has been. It's a myth.
Well, the media told us that chimpy won 2000 - even when subsequent investigations proved otherwise. The rest of the world knows otherwise.
ReplyDeleteMSM told us that 9/11 was OBL -- the rest of the world knows the official story makes no sense. It was an INSIDE job.
MSM told us there were WMD in Iraq and that chimpy won 2004.
They lied about chimpy's TANG record and "catapulted the propaganda" for the swiftboaters. They would have gotten nowhere with those smears without the media's help.
The White House is also saying that the sudden dismissal was NOT about any conflict within the administration. Goss says, "It is a mystery." BULLSHIT
Standard propaganda technique - tell so many different lies that no one knows what to believe. Then when the MSM echo chamber catapults the propaganda that they want people to accept, may will go along just to relieve the cognitive dissonance.
Not only may there be a "gay" aspect to Hookergate, HOW OLD ARE THE PROSTITUTES AND WHERE ARE THEY FROM?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
i.e. the opium of the masses
ReplyDelete11:48 PM
It's more like the TV is the IV for the opium.
Not only may there be a "gay" aspect to Hookergate, HOW OLD ARE THE PROSTITUTES AND WHERE ARE THEY FROM?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
ReplyDelete12:11 AM
The females are obviously all the missing white women and girls like Natalie Holloway. The young boys and men are all missing kids like Johnny Gosch, who is really Jeff Gannon. I could write my own prison planet ripoff blog, eh?
TV is the perfect delivery system for the drug... straight into you home. And you even pay thru the nose for the privilege of being anaesthetized and programmed if you have cable. Sheer evil, like drug pushers everywhere, but mostly big pharma. I like my indie weed pusher.
ReplyDeleteGlenn said:
ReplyDelete"By definition, that is not journalism. That is stenography. And the affinity which our national media has for the latter, and their equally intense aversion to the former, is so pervasive that it is hard to hold out hope that this will change."
And a week ago tonight, Stephen Colbert said (as I recall):
The President's the decider. He decides. The press secretary announces. You in the press type it up. Decide, announce, type... go home, pull out your novel about the journalist who stands up to the powers in Washington. You know - fiction!"
Further comments about the White House Typing Corps unneeded.
But it's further proof that the "marshmallow center" of Washington that Colbert mentioned needs to be run out of town and forced to get real jobs.
Anonymous sources confirm there is nothing unusual about Goss's resignation. At least two administration officials, who declined to be named, claim Goss resigned for the purely innocuous reason that he resigned. When asked to comment, a highly-placed source told this reporter, "don't quote me saying so but nothing unusual is going on."
ReplyDeleteIt seems to me that there are a hundred HateClintonistas for every true Clintonista.
ReplyDeleteI get around. I lurk in all the finest places. It's like everywhere you go, there's somebody who has completely burned a tube out. The outrage center in their set flared impossibly bright and then went dead. For whatever reasons;(politically incorrect here, I find it's trust or infidelity issues that cause the malfunction) these normally rational people will decide that my morals are seriously lacking for not accepting their perception of the Clinton presidency.
And that's not including RightBlogistan, where Clinton hatred is always simmering, regardless of the issues of the day.
David Shauhnessy's posts often contain some very good stuff. Did someone here imply there was something about his personal life that we would be interested in?
ReplyDeleteWhy?
What the hell do we care about any commenter's personal life? We're judging people here exclusively by what they write.
This politics of personal destruction stuff is wearing pretty thin. It's the one thing a commenter can do that totally and irredeemably discredits every further word he writes.
Personally I think the MSM were neither pro-Clinton nor anti-Clinton. In my opinion they were complicit. They did exactly what that Administration wanted them to do. They wanted them to focus on the sex scandal. They did.
There are about five sentences that have been uttered to me in my life which have had an enormous, lasting influence on my thinking.
Two of them were these:
l) The clues are always there.
2) It takes three points to make a curve.
I said before I don't think people in general are very good detectives, or maybe they don't have the luxury of time to really think about matters.
As a puzzle solver and "student of human psychology" addicit, I often choose to spend my time following clues. I find it highly entertaining.
THE CLUES ARE ALWAYS THERE
Is everyone in this country totally out of their minds? They didn't notice something "funny" about the cigar aspect of the Clinton scandal story?
This staggers my mind. Of all the types of kinky and just frisky sexual behaviour any of you have indulged in or read about or heard from others, have you ever before heard of a cigar playing a major role in an sexual escapade?
IT TAKES THREE POINTS TO MAKE A CURVE.
Today I was watching television and I heard an interview on Countdown with Keith Olberman (I think---otherwise it was Lou Dobbs) with the owner of the Limosine Company that has some connection with the Goss story.
Ninety percent of what this person talked about had to do with cigars.
The room was full of cigar smoke. People were smoking on a floor where there was no smoking allowed and that was the major story. They were playing poker and smoking cigars. It went on and on and everything had to do with cigars and cigar smoke. Nothing about mirrors.
With all the possible, plausible, explanations, alternative explanations, theories, issues, implications, etc. of this Goss story, this "insider" is saying the cigar smoke is the single most important aspect of the story?
That's two points. I am looking for the third before I conclude we've got a curve here on our hands.
OK. Moving along, ff this bill passes, (HR 5020)
it's taps for us all. We are not going to come back from that. Ever. The party will be over and the musicians will have gone home.
Can anyone post a link to this story in the New York Times today (front page):
Mandate for ID Meets Resistance From States.
We've got two years to stop this bill before it passes. Anyone who doesn't understand the full implications of this bill was probably snoozing when the Patriot Act was passed.
I believe that in two years if there isn't a live show from the Hague of great interest to us all, or something of that magnitude, it really means it is all over.
I really am hoping Glenn's book, even if it doesn't save the country, will act as a dog barking loud enough to at least slow down the caravan before it tramples us all to a figurative death.
PS. I think Sunny's observation that Goss had a meeting later that day at the Pentagon is a good clue.
PPS. What does anyone here know about Lucianne Goldberg? What's her history and how long does it go back and what "stories" has she been involved in?
Going along with the "Clinton scandals being nothing" meme, and perhaps the soon to be heard "Clinton was a damn good president" meme...
ReplyDeleteRight Wing Talk show hosts admits being wrong about Bush
C&L reader Kevin caught this last night on KABC AM-Los Angeles. Talk Show host Doug McIntyre, has turned on Bush. Will this start to become a trend?
"So, I’m saying today, I was wrong to have voted for George W. Bush. In historic terms, I believe George W. Bush is the worst two-term President in the history of the country. Worse than Grant. I also believe a case can be made that he’s the worst President, period. After five years of carefully watching George W. Bush I’ve reached the conclusion he’s either grossly incompetent, or a hand puppet for a gaggle of detached theorists with their own private view of how the world works.
"Or both. I thought the connection to 9-11 was sketchy at best. But Colin Powell impressed me at the UN, and Tony Blair was in, and after all, he was a Clinton guy, not a Bush guy, so I thought the case had to be strong. I was worried though, because I had read the Wolfowitz paper, “The Project for the New American Century.” It’s been around since ‘92, and it raised alarm bells because it was based on a theory, “Democratizing the Middle East” and I prefer pragmatism over theory. I was worried because Iraq was being justified on a radical new basis, “pre-emptive war.” Any time we do something without historical precedent I get nervous...read on
PPS. What does anyone here know about Lucianne Goldberg? What's her history and how long does it go back and what "stories" has she been involved in?
ReplyDelete3:02 AM
Sigh...
michael i said...
ReplyDeleteIt seems to me that there are a hundred HateClintonistas for every true Clintonista.
Again, no such thing ever existed. If you are talking about this... there is much there to agree with. Everyone knows what a Bushista is. They are all over the media and the blogosphere. They are an endangered species, though. Glad Bushco relaxed those protections for once.
Proof of liberal bias!
ReplyDeletehttp://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/06/AR2006050601336_2.html
This headline does not portray the truthiness about the cut and run, immoral, weak, corrupt dhimmicrats!
Wow. I just noticed Cynic wrote on another thread today:
ReplyDeleteAnyway, to get rid of Goss and install Cheney's man, Bush and Negroponte needed to create a smoke-screen.
I cannot know if your work on identifying the reasoning behind the Goss departure is correct (not enough facts out yet) but glad to see you use the word "smoke-screen."
If Paul Rosenberg would put aside this huge crippling partisan albatross hanging around his neck, he could probably help me out to connect a few more dots here.
Have anything else on either "cigars" or "smoke-screens" Cynic?
It's not productive work but it sure is a good puzzle.
Confident Democrats Lay Out Agenda
ReplyDeleteliberal bias!
partisan, a firm adherent to a party , faction, cause, or person; especially : one exhibiting blind, prejudiced, and unreasoning allegiance
ReplyDeleteIf Paul Rosenberg would put aside this huge crippling partisan albatross hanging around his neck, he could probably help me out to connect a few more dots here.
At first I wondered about this... then I realized you not only think capitalism is a form of government, it's also a political party! Well, to be fair, in this country it is, but you have to own some of it (capital, as in the means of production) to be a member.
Armagednoutahere said something in his great 1:31 am post...
Anybody who makes less than 5 million a year or so is an idiot if they go along with the propaganda the tiny majority at the top pays for--in the form of salary to the Rush et al armada--to convince working people that whats good for the mega-wealthy is good for the rest of us.
If you think you are a "capitalist" because you own some stock, you are basically an idiot, what a real capitalist might call "livestock".
Paul writes:
ReplyDeleteHe is pointing out how those excesses and their current politically correct stenography are two sides of the same coin.
This is a valid observation on Glenn's part and Paul's, but tucked deep away in that very reasonable observation is the hidden assumption of an axiom that is not in fact a given.
I admit it appears to be a given.
There's good reason to question that particular given however.
I wrote about this elsewhere.
I personally don't think it is ever wise to accept anything at face value.
It's easier to readily acknowledge you should check your premises if you arrive at a contradiction than it is to identify certain subtle contradictions as such when they appear and then realize, hey, I've got a contradiction on my hands here, let me go back and check my premises.
Paul Rosenberg said...
ReplyDeleteGoss is a strange one. There are some things about him that I can see rubbing Bush the wrong way...
I get the impression he has finally seen the light.
Porter Goss.
It may just be as simple as he no longer has any confidence in this administration, but choses to fall on his sword, rather than go public. He is a spook after all.
I'm not a journalist. Just an observer.
That statement was, in effect, Porter Goss throwing down the gauntlet and daring journalists to do their jobs.
ReplyDeleteIf that's the case... there is probably something to read between the lines of this commencement address...
Ex-CIA chief tells graduates to help gov't
"I am proud to admit 'I am from government,'" said Goss, who has served in state and federal positions for more than 40 years. "And I want to give you a message: Don't reflexively count on government. Don't fight it either. Help it. Help it work for us - for all Americans and for all people who cherish freedom."
David Shaughnessy said...
ReplyDelete"All that said: My guess is that when things really turn against Bush the MSM will devour him. I am sure there is a great deal of pent up hostility and frustration in the press that will explode once it's tindered by meaningful dissent from the Democratic Party, and supported by ratings with the public"
When things really turn against Bush?
Bush's ratings have been in the thirties for months now. Can you give us a ballpark figure as to where you think his ratings will be when things finally really turn against him?
Shooter 242 said:
ReplyDelete"Assuming events have not progressed past this post... Glenn, the only version of what happened that is verifiable to a source is the official version. Let me put it another way... There is not enough hard evidence to report anything else - yet. I have no doubt that whatever is being reported has the caveat that it is the official version. Not that it is the final true story."
You just refuse to get it don't you shooter? I've read quite a few stories today about the resignation. Not a single one included the "caveat" that it was the official version.
If you find one from the MSM post it for us please.
When things really turn against Bush?
ReplyDeleteBush's ratings have been in the thirties for months now. Can you give us a ballpark figure as to where you think his ratings will be when things finally really turn against him?
6:36 AM
I guess when you figure squeaking by with the slimest margin in years is a mandate, however it was obtained, things only really turn against you when only 2% of the population supports you.
I see that none of you have gotten it yet so let me help you out.
ReplyDeleteThe MSM knows the true story but since it involves the head of the CIA Bush has requested that they not print anything because secrets will be given to the enemy and it will damage national security to have the truth published.
The truth is...........(grin)
Anonymous said...
ReplyDelete"I guess when you figure squeaking by with the slimest margin in years is a mandate, however it was obtained, things only really turn against you when only 2% of the population supports you."
That would be funny if it weren't probably true. At least in the eyes of the Bush supporters. :)
Much of what this thread is about is the subject of this film.
ReplyDeleteOrwell Rolls In His Grave
Buy it. Support independent media or you will wish you had very soon... after it's too late.
We have more of a chance of getting accurate reporting from Pravda. How sad. The recurring theme is: IOKIYAR. See: Lush Bimbaugh; Patrick Kennedy.
ReplyDeleteThe statement that CNN had a pro-Clinton bias has some truth to it. It was the only cable channel that defended the President against much of the ridiculous hammering he was getting on the other three.
ReplyDeleteGeraldo was livid about the petty lengths that HateClintonistas would go to smear their Commander-in-Chief. Of course, the programs before and after G.R. dove right back into Chelsea's underwear drawer.
On my own personal note, I'm the kind of guy that will give two elbows back for the cheap one I got when my back was turned. Commenters who don't like that can freely bemoan my morals or type another forty paragraph post.
Or just keep your elbows to yourself.
You seem so rational, its hard for me to understand how you can have bought into the Clinton-as-devil meme. Is it just the sex? The lying about sex? Or something substantive.
ReplyDeleteIf you go back and read David’s posts up thread, you’ll find that he not only includes Clinton but “partisan Democrats” in his demonology. This indicates it’s not about the sex, but about ideology too. Very interesting.
David has tried to portray himself as “non-partisan” in this forum, but mention Clinton and he becomes extremely partisan, sounding like a Limbaugh “dittohead” or a freeper. It’s embarrassing.
I think that we need to keep that in mind when he periodically comes here to bash “spineless” Democrats in his “non-partisan” way. Sorry, but I’m not buying into that crap anymore, his hatred of Democrats is too intense for him to pretend he’s “non-partisan.” His mask has come off.
That is not to say he’s a Bush supporter, but let’s face it “partisan Democrats” would not be welcome in his “third party” in spite of the fact that “partisan Democrats” like Feingold are not the ones trashing the Constitution, and if you look back in history it is “partisan Republicans” since Nixon who have been at the forefront of expanding executive power at the expense of the other branches and our system of checks and balances.
That fact seems to have eluded him. But then so has the fact that Clinton remained popular in face of his problems – more popular than Bush is now. Yet, in “Irrational Land” they’re still waiting for the public to turn against Bush.
Go figure.
EWO
ReplyDeleteHere's the link you asked for.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/06/us/06id.html?ex=1147147200&en=c93973be83a5f94b&ei=5087%0A
Glenn,
Just to be clear ... I was not disagreeing with your point that the MSM should not accept the WH version of events on the Goss resignation. I don't think the MSM should be accepting the WH version of anything without checking it ... no matter who the president is. Although this president has certainly gone further than any other is earning the skepticism and additional scrutiny.
I just don't need all the salacious details. But we'll eventually get them.
I'm a conservative Democrat who never voted for Clinton.
ReplyDeleteIt's all about rational debate. HateClintonistas have a problem with that. The honesty thing, for instance. Clinton lied, lied, lied. I always ask Bill's detractors to name these horrible lies that were so much more extreme than any other President or politician, but they never seem to come up with any credible examples.
David, you need to look around the lefty blogosphere a little more thoroughly. Besides DU and democrats.org, none of them, especially not Glenn, are cheerleading establishment Dems. (With the exception of Feingold) In fact, harsh and substantive criticisms are leveled at them every day, sometimes several times a day. We are tired of Dems bowing down, buckling under, and otherwise allowing the dismantiling of our constitution by this administration.
ReplyDeleteThe time is well past when you'll see a convention hall full of anti-war delegates cheering a man who expressed no dismay at, and indeed voted for, the war on Iraq. Unlike the repubs, we are going to hold our elected officials accountable for cowardice and avarice. And they will rue the day they ignore the netroots, as HRC is making clear she will do.
So what, I figured, that's part of the job. Once he's elected he can be himself. Well, the first thing he did was stab military gays in the back. And it was all downhill from there as far as his integrity goes.
ReplyDeleteMany “partisan-Democrats" share your view of some of what Clinton did (see Kos’s op-ed in today’s WP), but that did not turn them totally against the Democratic Party. Why not? Why don’t they now have an intense hatred of the party?
In my view, however, the damage he did to the country and the presidency far outweighs the benignity of his tenure, policy-wise.
The damage he did was primarily to his marriage and his reputation not the country or the presidency. He did nothing that Kennedy didn’t do, yet that didn’t keep you from voting for him and the Democratic Party in the first place.
Why didn’t Kennedy’s sexual escapades damage the country or the presidency and preclude you from voting for a Democrat?
Your anger and contempt toward the majority of us here – including Glenn is misplaced and increasingly irrational.
JGabriel:
ReplyDeleteInteresting post but I don't agree with your conclusions.
I agree it appears likely that neither the "official" story or the "Hookergate" story are what this is about. Actually both of those could almost be discarded on common sense grounds alone.
But this is strange:
whyever Goss was fired, it’s not something *Goss* is embarrassed about.
You are asking people to assume certain things to conclude this, that:
l) Goss is not amoral and thus incapable of feeling embarrassment for something about which a moral person would feel embarrassment.
2) Goss has not committed actions which the "public" considers immoral but which his own particular value system (or lack thereof) deems acceptable. (See Cheney and Rumsfeld).
In other words, what constitutes "embarrassment"? Public humiliation? Public "exposure" about something which the person did deliberately and with chosen purpose but which "looks bad" to a public which has no real knowledge about it?
Generally speaking in public life "insiders" don't really care about that. It's a "cost of doing business". They keep their eye on the prize yet remain aware that there may be times they will have to cough up that "cost."
This is especially so in intelligence work because the very nature of that field is that everything has to be hidden from the public. It's not infreqent that if something "leaks out" there is some kind of a "fall" that is offered up to the public but one which has been agreed to by all parties.
It’s the Bushies that are embarrassed, and evidently pissed (which I’ll get to in a moment).
I see zero evidence of this. For all we know Goss is working with Addington and Rove (hypothetically---could be anyone)and this is a part of some scheme to accomplish some end which goal is best served by having Goss now leave his position in this way for reasons none of us has any idea about.
And Goss wants it investigated by the press, wants whatever is to come out, and wants to further embarrass the administration.
What hard evidence is there of this? Nothing Goss himself says should be accepted as truth. Does anyone think it's reasonable to assume Government officials are telling the truth to the press and to the public when we have seen more than ample evidence, especially in this Administration, that they almost never do.
Goss's "mystery" statement could be an engraved invitation to a goose hunt.
I think if we are ever to find out what the "Goss" story is, it will only be if the whole "wall of secrecy" around this secretive Government comes crashing down because of everything else that has started happening.
Or a new "player" stepping forth out of the shadows with some bombshell revelations. Not anyone already on the scene.
That's my guess.
Goss's "mystery" statement could be an engraved invitation to a goose hunt.
ReplyDeleteExactly.
The manner in which the administration handled this “mystery resignation” of Goss seems almost intended to prompt a variety of conspiracy theories. Now why would they possibly do that?
They didn’t even attempt to give an explanation, however implausible. They didn’t explain at all. Not even a feeble “wants to spend more time with Andy Card’s family” – I can’t think of another instance where an administration didn’t publicly offer an explanation for a resignation and try to control the way it was presented.
Sadly, they didn’t have to. Starting with Tim Russert and echoing throughout the media was the new “turf war” talking point. Now I don’t know if Rove was busy pushing this theme, but for the media to jump on this particularly line and sing in unison when there are so many other possibilities is just one more example of their continued “lapdog” status. (The point of Glenn’s post.)
But the suddenness of it (dumping it on a day when there’s on a story about a Kennedy with a problem) just doesn’t make any sense at all.
It’s almost as if they want to invite speculation about the “sex scandal” (which they must know Goss was not an active participant) to keep the media off from a much bigger story that must directly involve Bush and his intelligence policies.
There are lots of theories out there, but so far, the only one I’m ruling out is that this is somehow about “sex” – it isn’t.
Random comments.
ReplyDeleteaj, thanks!
David Shaughnessy, I pretty much agree with you about the Democrats on this blog. But you have been consistently failing, for some reason I don't really understand, to pick up on Glenn's own wavelength.
I sense almost a pique on your part that Glenn is different than what you want him to be.
He's Glenn. He's who he is. He can't be what you want him to be and I don't see exactly why that gives you a problem.
Glenn himself is quite dissimilar from the "Democrats" on this blog.
He's in the Witness Protection Program but the reason he fits in there is because it's virtually impossible to tell from what he writes if he has a partisan slant. He could be a conservative, a progressive, on the right, on the left, or simply a non-partisan free thinker.
The fact that people both "on the left" an "on the right" and in the middle are attracted to his ideas and his writings bears witness to the fact that he is not as you describe.
anon writes: At first I wondered about this... then I realized you not only think capitalism is a form of government, it's also a political party!
Listen, this isn't the time or place to debate this but since you bring that up I will say this. The reason I am apolitical is because none of the political parties subscribe to the doctrine of laissez-faire capitalism. If one did, I'd support it.
There are two systems of government when it comes to economic theory: capitalism and communism. The difference in terms of economic theory is simply who owns the means of production.
We have neither here. We have a "mixed-economy" which has revealed itself to be a very dangerous beast as it clearly has brought us up to the doorstep of totalitarianism.
What we have in this country is a system of economics in which Government now has certain corporatist subsidiaries. The parent company and the subsidiaries have formed an alliance against private citizens, against private non government-subsidized corporations and businesses and against the domestic free markets themselves.
Mixed economies contain within their structures the seeds of their own destruction.
As for Sunny's comment: The time is well past when you'll see a convention hall full of anti-war delegates cheering a man who expressed no dismay at, and indeed voted for, the war on Iraq.
Sunny, did you happen to read the long excerpt I printed on another thread by some famous author whose first name is Tom and was talking about the Fall of Rome as relates to 2006 America?
In that excerpt he addresses the real possibility that some military person posing as a "populist" will emerge to take over control of our government.
All I could think of was "Murtha."
It's very possible that Murtha is the most dangerous possible candidate of all and yet the Democrats have been blindingly uncritical of him and willing to make him a hero as their party leadership pushes all these "Democratic veterans" at us as candidates, in my opinion laying the groundwork for a military dictatorship.
We're not talking about draftees here. We are talking about people who enlisted in the military and chose to make that their career.
Not very impressive about the quality of thinking that goes into being a Democratic party faithful imho.
Savaging David Shaughnessy
ReplyDeleteThe treatment of David Shaughnessy in this thread is a superb exemplar of why my participation here has sharply declined. I didn't vote in the 90s, and my objections to Clinton tended to emanate from his Reno DoJ, not his cigar fetishes. But there is also no doubt in my mind that he launched a vicious campaign against women whom he had mauled as "nutty and slutty."(I would also point out that the same Cato Institute that drafted a paper excellently detailing the sins of George Bush, a report that Glenn has avidly promoted, also denounced the civil libertarian and other excesses of Bill Clinton.)
But regardless of the merits of any or all of the attacks on Bill Clinton, or to what extent the media abetted them or opposed them, Shaughnessy has run smack into a fact about this site that I have also myself encountered: some hot-button topics cannot be addressed from any but an anti-GOP or pro-left/Democrats position, without hordes of jackals pouncing on one. And Shaughnessy is right, the quality here has significantly declined.
My participation here has sharply declined as well, (not that you would notice, since I am the most prolific commenter here). I am ignored by Hyaptia and Eyes Wide Open, at least they claim to ignore me, but they also savage me and attack me in there comments so they must be reading what I write..
ReplyDeleteBut there is also no doubt in my mind that he launched a vicious campaign against women whom he had mauled as "nutty and slutty."
ReplyDeletehypatia, you do know the origin of that descriptirve phrase, don't you? David Brock called Anita Hill "a little bit nutty, a little bit slutty" in his book attacking her after the Clarence Thomas hearings. I believe that particular mauling episode predates the Clinton presidency and I hadn't heard about his involvement, or even his use of the phrase; please do enlighten me. (You have expertise in such an amazing array of topics...)
Powerful people savage the less powerful. Surely a libertarian doesn't find anything surprising about that. So what is it about Clinton's appalling behavior that's uniquely outrageous? How did his mistreatment of women, whatever it entailed, damage the country?
You've only recently acknowledged something that many have us have long seen -- that Bush is a disastrous president who's causing great harm to our nation. Even at this late date, would you choose Bush over Clinton? Would it even be a close call?
Like Michael Moore, like the Red Scare, this seems to be one of your blind spots, where emotion shorts out your powerful capacity for reason and analysis.
I enjoy your many interesting, thoughtful contributions and I've learned much from them; I hope to read more. However, there's no shortage of extra-chunky commentary on the web and, as nicely phrased as yours is, I won't miss it.
Shorter Hypatia and Shaughnessy:
ReplyDeleteThere goes the neighborhood.
It's not too difficult to spot the oddballs here. The ones who really don't appreciate the ugly, noisy mess that is democracy. Like it or not, it's a free country and there's the door. Don't let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya.
"An Independent is someone who wants to take the politics out of politics."
"If the Republicans will stop telling lies about the Democrats, we will stop telling the truth about them."
Adlai E. Stevenson
hypatia, you do know the origin of that descriptirve phrase, don't you? David Brock called Anita Hill "a little bit nutty, a little bit slutty" in his book attacking her after the Clarence Thomas
ReplyDeleteYou waste your time with her. She's a kool-aid drinker from way back. She's like a shy Ann Coulter, and she is honestly convinced that FDR's administration was riddled with "evil commies". EWO is a Randian, they both maybe, I don't know, and Shaughnessy... he's a real oddball. He's either a Ken Mehlman Republican (a very confused person) or as another commenter pointed out, a plant, false flag op.
Your input is valued.The time for a 3rd party might finally be upon us. But you'll have to gently coax people away from allegiances to the 2 parties that now dominate our loyalties.
ReplyDeleteHorseshit. Third parties? Yeah, that'll do it. Did Bush use a third party? Yeah, the same way Clinton did, to get elected as a Dem or a Repuke. The Pukes in power didn't waste time with a third party. They did the invasion of the party snatchers. The Democratic party is full of freeloaders and DINOs. They are going to get wiped away just like the faux Repukes on the other side. Third party, my ass. You want to talk, why stop at three? Let's do the parliamentary system and have 10 or 20 parties. Seriously. The only thing worse than a two party system is a three party system. The idea is to take the Democratic party over, like these faux pukes did with the GOP, but not to put crooks in office to line their pockets.
Parliamentary system where coalitional governments share power. We don't have that. Third parties act as spoilers to maintain the status quo. We don't want that. Democrat or democracy dies. In the rare case of a Democrat, (can you see a puke trying it now?), like Feingold perhaps, pulling a Teddy Roosevelt and going Progressive, them maybe, but don't count on it. Do your third party and make the freeloaders, crooks and shills for the plutocrats in both parties smile from ear to ear and assure the status quo stands.
ReplyDeletevetiver writes: Like Michael Moore, like the Red Scare, this seems to be one of your blind spots, where emotion shorts out your powerful capacity for reason and analysis.
ReplyDeleteI enjoy your many interesting, thoughtful contributions and I've learned much from them; I hope to read more. However, there's no shortage of extra-chunky commentary on the web and, as nicely phrased as yours is, I won't miss it.
This is exactly what I mean. The American Communists who spied and otherwise toiled in the service of Joseph Stalin committed both literal and moral crimes; I'm not only going to refuse to apologize for being repulsed by them, I will insist that anyone who isn't willing to join in unqualified denunciation of the atrocious, anti-American cause they so blindly and grotesquely promoted, to condemn their subterfuge and deception as they infiltrated govt and business as well as labor unions to manipulate policies for Stalin, anyone who won't condemn them is outside of the universe of serious and moral people. Glibly dismissing disgust with that cadre as being nothing but a "Red Scare" is to be outside of the universe of serious and moral people. Do spare me any further condescending drivel about how I'm oh-so-reasonable when I'm merely criticizing Bush and the modern GOP, but otherwise just so bewilderingly "emotional." Bush isn't Stalin. Bush supporters are not remotely as evil as were Dalton Trumbo or Alger Hiss.
Now, could I document my "woman strategy" that Clinton glommed on to, to depict them all as liars and whores? Sure; a libertarian woman just wrote a book about it, saw her discuss it on C-Span. But that is not my point, and you would reject any such source out-of-hand.
The point is that David Shaughnessy has made calm arguments that express a "wrong" opinion by the lights of most here. With some cause he feels the site owner promoted and invited attacks on him. I don't even necessarily agree with everything David Shaughnessy wrote about Clinton and the media. If it matters, I'd prefer Clinton over Bush. But that doesn't matter.
This site is overwhelmingly dominated by leftists who are sometimes vicious, and otherwise just condescending and dismissive of opinions such as mine or Shaughnessy's, as well as EWO's. Well, I have news for you: outside of this echo chamber, and in many intelligent venues, my views are not unusual. Nor are Shaughnessy's.
I'm in the process of working with some other libertarian-types (one of whom already has a very high-traffic blog, and who reads here) to start a group blog. Of those whose voting habits I am aware, none voted for Bush. They could be persuaded to vote for gridlock and reasonable Democrats. I'd be interested in contributing to that persuasion campaign. But I wouldn't dream of sending them to the comments section here, to do that.
You won't miss my commentary, you say. Well, I won't miss much what lately goes on here, either.
Wow, just WOW! I am beginning to think that if George W. Bush does get a blowjob from an intern, the press would ignore it, justify it, and take the white house spin on the situation.
ReplyDeleteHoly crap, Bush simply getting blown WOULD NOT take down this presidency.
Unfuckingbelievable...what sad times we live in.
David Shaughnessy said...
ReplyDelete"Here's my prediction in 2008. The Republicans come to their senses and nominate some McCain/Giuliani combination. The Democrats, emboldened by re-taking (part of) Congress in 2006, nominate the party favorite -- Hillary Clinton. Feingold's candidacy gets squashed by the insiders like the Republicans did to McCain last time. The Republicans win the presidency easily."
Since we are stuck with only Republicans and Democrats I would find having a Republican president with a Democratic congress a completely acceptable situation. I no more want the Democrats controlling the executive and both houses than I do the Republicans.
Glenn has attacked me repeatedly
ReplyDeleteDavid, I don't think Glenn ever "attacked you" although he may have disagreed with positions of yours.
As a reader of this blog, I always got the feeling that you were one of the commenters Glenn has the most respect for and he enjoys going back and forth with you because of that respect.
and when Glenn signals for the partisan dogs to be released, they go.
Oh, no! This is not so David. Please don't even think that. Glenn would never do that.
Anyone can see Glenn welcomes your input on this blog.
I have responded in kind.
It happens to all of us once in a while. These are very passionate issues with which we concern ourselves, and if we didn't feel strongly about them we wouldn't be the people that we are.
More than that, this blog is increasingly becoming Democrat red-meat
Although I agree, I've decided that there are very few "real" Republicans on the Internet. I think that's what explains it. There are the barts and the shooters and anyone who differs with them comes in from attack from both them and the left.
I found out you need combat boots when you enter the blogosphere.
Hypatia is an equal opportunity attackee, savaged by both right and left because I think both resent her intelligence.
territority and I don't think that's an accident. Glenn has evidently decided that boosting Democrats is the way to go, though it is explained as a marriage of convenience that will last only long enough to neuter Bush. I do not believe that is realistic or posssible.
This is a problem, granted. You can look at it a number of ways. One is desperate times call for desperate measures. Another is with limited options none of which is ideal it might be rational to go with the one most likely to succeed if you're in a lifeboat situation. Which we are.
Already a guy I know nothing about, Pete Hoefstra, has made his way to my number two spot after Sen. Feingold in terms of whom I could support.
I don't know anything about him and may change my mind tomorrow but his statements about Gen. Hayden were speaking directly to me.
You know you can't name too many Republicans in office you support. Can you? I can't. And it's a little late in the game for mere theory now.
Indeed, I think it is foolish. And, yes, as I mentioned long ago, Glenn had tapped into something quite powerful and he has the talent to mold that energy into something quite formidable, but he has sold himself -- and the rest of us -- short. I am quite disappointed.
I don't think he has "sold" himself. If his subsequent actions reveal he has, I will also be very disappointed.
I said a long time ago, the Kos's of this country fail on almost every level.
I too hope Glenn will not get seduced by that faction into thinking what they are selling is that much of an improvement over what we have now.
Give Glenn a chance. Let's see what happens. Nobody else is doing much of anything, including you and me, so let's hope that he does.
Glenn, behave yourself! Remember to "dance with the one who brung 'ya."
You didn't shoot out of the blue as you did and gather such loyal support because there was a need for another Democratic stategist. Anything but.
I know you know that.... Just cautioning:)
Personally, I am going to remain miserable about what's happened in this country until we repeal the Patriot Act and kill all its ugly stepchildren and strike the word Orwell out of our national vocabulary. Also, of course, treat all humans with dignity, stop the torture and the warmongering, and get the judiciary and Congress to do their roles properly and protect the civil liberties of us all, including the detainees.
Nothing less will do.
First off, the consistant quality of the comments section has surely declined from the first few months this blog began, but you have to remember that this place was unusual and special in that regard. As soon as this place became relevant, the Wingnuts had to disrupt it. It was a solid defensive move to slow Glenn's progress.
ReplyDeleteBut just a few days ago, a bit of the old magic appeared during the spats about libertarianism. I was all giggly, reading and learning. It's one of the reasons I love it here.
As for the school-marmish criticism
and the take-my-ball-and-go-homism, I think it's just silly, selfish crap. David Shaunassy regularly shows up to beat Democrats upside the head with the term "Clintonista." Maybe I haven't been nastily clear. Let's try this again.
I consider the term "Clintonista" to be a cowardly insult. It has no real definition. It's used to vaguely and broadly smear rather than inform or clarify. The Republicans use the term "liberal" in the same way, as Glenn has pointed out, to divide us.
I'm just so cynical that I believe David S. knows exactly what he's doing every time he uses the loaded word...how rude of me to actually be insulted!!!
It's like the guy in traffic who decides I needed to get out of his way; he pulls alongside, rolls down his window, flips me off and speeds away. Next day I end up behind him in the check-out at Safeway.
I'm supposed to ignore this?