This weekend, there was much petulant hand-wringing on the Right over the terrible breaches of etiquette and civility exhibited by the New School students against the great war hero John McCain. National Review's Rich Lowry, for instance, wrote multiple posts protesting the students' behavior, and decried their conduct as "amazing" and "incredible" because McCain is a "war hero."
Lowry sermonized against the student's conduct even though, as I pointed out in a post on Saturday, Lowry said nothing about the continuous mockery by the Bush campaign of war hero John Kerry's war wounds and military service, including the waiving of purple band-aids at the Republican National Convention, nor did Lowry condemn the ongoing attacks on the patriotism and courage of war hero Jack Murtha. And Lowry specifically defended the invocation of Osama bin Laden and Saddam Hussein in commercials against wounded combat veteran Max Cleland, dismissing complaints about such attacks on Cleland's commitment to the nation's defense as mere "whining."
Lowry responded today to my post by claiming that I "kind of misse[d] the point" of his post. The "point," Lowry claimed, is that heckling someone during a speech is just "rank incivility," and should be condemned any time it's done. Rather than missing the point, that was the point I made -- that it's a completely perverse "civility" standard which holds that it's fine to attack a war hero's patriotism, impugn their allegiance to the country, question their courage, and mock their war wounds -- as Bush supporters routinely do -- but that it is somehow intolerable to heckle them while giving a political speech.
That is the same twisted form-over-substance preaching which causes mainstream journalists to overlook constant Right-wing accusations that "liberals" are subversive, mentally ill traitors who belong in prison -- nothing angry or uncivil about any of that -- but they find a vulgar word in an e-mail to be proof that the Republic is about to collapse because of the death of civility and the "Angry Left."
Pumping this theme further, The Wall St. Journal today published an Editorial helpfully explaining to Democrats that their behavior towards John McCain was going to cause them to lose more elections:
But the ugliness of the New School crowd toward Mr. McCain reveals the peculiar rage that now animates so many on the political left. Dozens of faculty and students turned their back on the Senator, others booed and heckled, and a senior invited to speak threw out her prepared remarks and mocked their invited guest as he sat nearby.
So, that's the behavioral standard that Bush followers are advocating. The greatest sin against civility is to boo someone while they give a political speech, and those who do that show that they are deranged and "angry" and are therefore acting at their own peril.
Last week, Democratic Rep. Lacy Clay of Missouri delivered the Commencement Address at the University of Missouri. Unlike McCain, who spoke in favor of the war, Clay spoke against the war. He also criticized The Commander-in-Chief. According to Gateway Pundit -- who describes the event with giddy celebration -- this is what ensued:
Representative Lacy Clay Jr. gave such a hate-filled speech last Saturday morning at the University of Missouri St. Louis campus that he had to stop three times during his talk because the boos from the crowd had drowned him out! But unlike Murtha, Lacy Clay needed security to escort him from the building after he was through with his Bush-bash!
So pro-Bush students heckled Rep. Clay's speech and were so disruptive that the Congressman actually needed security to escort him out of the building for fear that his physical safety would be endangered. Does that show that the Angry Right is deranged and is jeopardizing their chances to win elections? No, it shows the opposite. This incident also shows how deranged the Angry Left is.
According to Instapundit -- who cited the Gateway Pundit post and said that "a Hateful anti-war speech by Rep. Lacy Clay (D-MO) . . . provokes a near riot" -- this episode "[s]eems to illustrate the point made in this WSJ editorial about the Democrats' penchant for self-marginalization and self-destruction." The WSJ Editorial to which Instapundit cited condemned the heckling and booing by the New School students of McCain's speech. But to Instapundit, that same Editorial also shows that Democrats are acting stupidly and angrily when they give commencement speeches and are heckled by Republican students to the point where they need security to be escorted out.
Gateway Pundit also points out how hateful Jack Murtha is, because he, too, has been giving anti-war speeches -- including at Commencement ceremonies -- where he forces Republican students in the audience to heckle, walk out and act disruptively. How come Rich Lowry wasn't decrying the terribly uncivil conduct towards war hero Jack Murtha? At least according to Instapundit's rationale, it's because it is the anti-war speeches themselves that are hateful -- not the student's understandable reaction -- and so the speech and the speaker are to blame for provoking the disruptive behavior of those patriotic pro-war students.
So, to re-cap the rules: (1) When a pro-war politician gives a pro-war speech as part of a graduation ceremony, and students in the audience heckle and boo him, that shows how Deranged the Angry Left is -- because they heckled a pro-war speech. (2) When an anti-war politician gives an anti-war speech as part of a graduation ceremony, and students in the audience heckle, walk out and even riot, that also shows how Angry the Left is -- because they "provoked a near riot" by pro-war students.
One last point that can't go unnoticed: part of the WSJ Editorial that Instapundit quotes warns that Democrats are going to be in big trouble because they are "sneering at our war heroes." That is almost too much hypocrisy to stomach, even for Instapundit. Who has "sneered at war heroes" more viciously and continuously than Bush supporters -- from Jack Murtha to John Kerry to Max Cleland to the war critic Generals? Sneering at war heroes was one of the principal tactics of the Bush re-election campaign and has been a reliable tool to attack and smear any war hero who speaks out against this administration.
Virtually on the same day, Bush followers are arguing that the Left is deranged and angry because: (a) they boo Republican commencement speakers and because (b) they cause Republican students to boo them and riot at commencement ceremonies. When the likes of Instapundit and the Wall St. Journal Editorial Board rail against the "Angry Left," what they mean are "people who oppose the war in Iraq and criticize the Commander-in-Chief." As long as Democrats remember that that description includes the vast majority of Americans, they should have no difficulty ignoring this pious hypocrisy, which always deceitfully masquerades as an oh-so-earnest effort to help Democrats do better in the upcoming election ("if only you would be more like Joe Lieberman and stop criticizing the war and the President, you wouldn't be perceived as so angry and you'd have a much better chance to win").
There you go with the reason and logic again. Detailed examples of the constant hypocrisy, a straight-forward, easily understandable "compare and contrast" narrative to tie the events together...
ReplyDeleteYou "Angry lefty", you... </sarcasm>
Remember, these are the same folks whose logic lets them say rape is caused by women dressing too sexy...
ReplyDeleteThis is just like the "partisan" argument. If someone criticizes the Bush administration (or even reports news that portrays them in a negative light), they are being "partisan." If you praise and defend the Bush administration and attack the "partisan" liberals, you are just being fair, balanced, and objective. Makes sense.
ReplyDeleteEven as the president drags the fat and bewildered country into further adventures in mayhem and corruption, the Wall Street Journal sings as loudly as it can that we are not headed for complete economic disaster and that it really wants to help the Democrats win. Have somebody tie you to the mast if you insist on listening.
ReplyDeleteOh, no, you're completely wrong. You see, those weren't boos from the right. They were literally trying to drown out Rep. Murtha's subversive, hate-filled diatribe so that it wouldn't be heard and make it into the liberal media and demoralize our troops, therefore aiding and abetting the terrrrists. See? It was a completely selfless and patriotic sort of booing.
ReplyDelete:dying laughing:
[/sarcasm, in case you didn't get it.]
This doesn't work anymore. The mighty wurlitzer is breaking down.
ReplyDeleteWhy?
Because the majority of Americans sympathize with the new school students at this point. The Big ro in the Dessert(tm) always had a limited shelf life.
The Republican (conservitave, cultist, etc) are now percieved as losers, and losers get voted off the island.
It aint deep, but whatever works. It does have a kind of delicious irony though. Live by the simple minded, die by the simple minded.
At least according to Instapundit's rationale, it's because it is the anti-war speeches themselves that are hateful -- not the student's understandable reaction -- and so the speech and the speaker are to blame for provoking the disruptive behavior of those patriotic pro-war students.
ReplyDeleteWhat’s intentionally and purposefully forgotten by the right is that what they deem “hateful” (being “anti-war”) has now become the position of the majority of Americans – and they are actively trying to marginalize the majority. That’s what this is all about.
For another example, just take a look at the cover of Time with the Dixie Chicks on the cover. Now, remembering that the Chicks’ view of the war and Bush is now the majority opinion, it’s interesting that Time chose to label them “Radical Chicks” – once again trying to marginalize their opinion giving the impression that it is somehow “extreme” and out of the mainstream, when it is actually prevailing view of most Americans.
So, we’ve reached the sad and rather perverse state where the majority of Americans are now “radicals,” “extremists,” “angry” and “hateful” and the minority who continues to support Bush is portrayed as “rational” “moderate” and “polite.”
Let’s not forget is was the “angry right” who engaged in death threats against the Dixie Chicks for expressing their opinion – no wonder they want to project what they’re really like to the other side – it is they who are extreme, angry, hateful and radical – and that’s becoming increasingly obvious to more and more Americans.
Gotta get the framing people!
ReplyDeleteThe question is: Why aren't THEY outraged?
1. Anger scares people.
ReplyDelete2. The "Left" scares Americans.
3. Republicans are fear-mongers.
The "anger" of the "Left" is going to be a major campaign theme for Republicans. Anyone wanting to do well against them is going to have to figure out how to deflect or at least neutralize sheeples' fear. I'm not convinced that reason can do the job, and no, I don't have alternatives to suggest or I'd go into the campaign strategy business.
How can you keep this up? You're going to give yourself an ulcer if you keep pointing out the staggeringly obvious contradictions on the right. I mean, I suppose it's useful to someone to have the hypocrisy illustrated so elegantly, but I really am not so sure it's worth the heartache it must cause you. Perhaps it makes sense to keep at it as long as they actually keep responding, but soon they will write you off as a loony, academic-like liberal, and then I think you can allow yourself to start arguing with real people rather than children.
ReplyDeleteIncidentally, all this harping about speeches reminds me of the various funeral ceremonies that they decried for being so sadly politicized by the left. These arguments make so little sense from so many directions that I hardly see the point in arguing about it. You might as well argue with the TV set.
so when do the Weimar-style street riots between the Angry Right and the Angry Left begin? And can morally bankrupt capatilists make any money off the brawls with a few high profile eBay auctions?
ReplyDeleteSo, giving a speech that is anti-war or against a certain war I.E Iraq is what according these right-wingers? Wrong? Anti-american? Morally repugnent? Is war the In-thing now and the way we govern and lead the world? Apparently it is?!! At least with this degenerate administration! And the hapless and zombiefied right continues to trail along and defend it, no matter what?
ReplyDeleteI would like to ask them, what ever happened to "blessed be the peacemakers, for they shall inherit the earth".
And what will the war-mongers inherit??
This stuff is so depressing it makes my head swim. HOW CAN IT BE that the press lets this kind of crap continue? How can it be that they allow these kinds of ridiculous narratives to dominate the media, even with such a vast overwhelming lack of support from the masses of people in the polls?
ReplyDeleteIt's hard to stomach.
Glenn -
ReplyDeleteI'd like to thank you first of all. I've read your blog for a while, but haven't posted until now.
I'm wondering why you haven't mentioned the character attacks on John McCain from the _right_ in the 2000 election? I think the absence of conservatives defending McCain from the far more offensive whisper attacks in the South Carolina primary really highlights their hypocrisy now.
Anyway, thanks for continuing to share your insights. Rational thought and well organized writing has become a scarce resource online, lately.
the Wall Street Journal sings as loudly as it can that we are not headed for complete economic disaster
ReplyDeletegosh, didn't they say the same thing about ENRON even when its CASH FLOW statements indicated they were BILLIONS AND BILLIONS of dollars leaking out of the cooked books?
Is anyone surprised?
this is the best friggin blog on the web.
ReplyDeleteAnd what will the war-mongers inherit??
ReplyDeleteThey don't need to inherent anything... the military industrial complex is raking in BILLIONS AND BILLIONS OF DOLLARS!
This was all about transfering wealth from the Federal Government to a select group of elite, the military-industrial complex.
Not only do they get wealthy beyond avarice, but they will set the fiscal agenda for GENERATIONS to come -- essentially forcing democrats to abandon all progressive ideas and run as the party that balances the budget.
Expect massive "privatization", the end of Social Security, and no meaningful answers to the US healthcare crisis.
Democrats will be powerless to address any liberal issues because of the massive debt.
Someone needs to send Instapundit et al a tape of the British Parliament. Especially when the Prime Minister is speaking.
ReplyDeleteWhy shouldn't we be the angry Left? I'm about ready to open my window and shout "I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take this anymore."
ReplyDeleteFortunately my copy of How Would a Patriot Act? was delivered today. I'm reading with the expectation of getting some ideas on how to direct my anger.
HOW CAN IT BE that the press lets this kind of crap continue?
ReplyDeleteThey are watching KING KONG instead of actually following newsworthy events.
WASHINGTON Reporters en route to Arizona on Air Force One last week opted to watch the movie "King Kong" in the press cabin.
This was more important than the Hayden hearings. Says it all, doesn't it.
http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/05/21/news/letter.php
If the right ever get their chance to post the Ten Commandments in the courts, I'd just like it if they replaced the first one with the one they truly believe:
ReplyDeleteIt not hypocrisy, if I'm always right, and you're always wrong.
They have to work this hard at portraying the left as angry because they need to draw attention away from all the hatred that came spewing forth when immigration became the topic d'jour.
ReplyDeleteso let me get this straight:
ReplyDeletesome guy named Lowery says that it's in poor taste to boo a speaker, while some blog called instapundit says its ok to boo them if they are anti-war?
Aren't these different people? You are the one joining 2 different people's points as one to create an illusion of dissonance. That's shameful.
if lowery made the point that its disrespectful to boo a speaker, and then booed a speaker who he disagreed with, then by all means, call him on his hypocrasy. but stop conflating the opinions of several different people as one to make a tenuous point.
beanspants1
if lowery made the point that its disrespectful to boo a speaker, and then booed a speaker who he disagreed with, then by all means, call him on his hypocrasy. but stop conflating the opinions of several different people as one to make a tenuous point.
ReplyDeleteCan you read?
Lowry both criticized the war hero treatment of McCain while defending the war hero attacks on Cleland. He also defended the party that did nothing but mock the war heroism of Kerry.
Instapundit cited to and praised the WSJ article condemning the students' booing, while also blaming the speakers who were booed.
They are the same people advocating different positions based on who is doing what. And even if they weren't, it's entirely permissible to point out that someone who supports a particular political movement is advocating standards which their own movement violates.
vragi naroda
ReplyDeleteThis post of Glenn's explains why I gave up being civil long ago. Civil disobedience has nothing to do with civility. It can and does call for violence under certain circumstances.
ReplyDeleteThe Theory, Practice, & Influence of Thoreau's Civil Disobedience
Most importantly, Thoreau does not associate his action with a position on violence. Tolstoy and Gandhi and King have of course associated Thoreau's essay with a rejection of violence. An anonymous member of the Danish resistance learned a different lesson from it:
"Thoreau's "Civil Disobedience" stood for me, and for my first leader in the resistance movement, as a shining light with which we could examine the policy of complete passivity which our government had ordered for the whole Danish population. . . . I lent Thoreau's books to friends, told them about him, and our circle grew. Railroads, bridges, and factories that worked for the Germans were blown up.(24)
And though they contradict each other, both readings of Thoreau are right."
Of course they want you to remain "civil" and embrace a "policy of complete passivity". If you do so, you are a fool, because they have no intention of reciprocating in kind.
You're a hero, Glenn. You continually flagellate the right-wing blogs and writers with reasoned arguments long after it has become apparent that they simply don't operate by rational standards of conduct. There will always be a significant minority of the population who are irrational zealots. The best that well-intentioned Americans can do is to gather the center of the country and leave the reactionaries to the dustbin of history.
ReplyDeleteThe GOP will always project the idealogies of its militant base through the cloudy lens of honeyed language and one-sided arguments. I think it's more effective to highlight these duplicities rather than the rampant lunacy of the likes of Instapundit. It is far more effective to flagellate the right with the words of their own leaders than the words of those who can be dismissed by righties as extremists in their own party.
Is there a url or script for Lacy Clay's speech? I'd like to read it.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous said...
ReplyDelete1. Anger scares people.
2. The "Left" scares Americans.
3. Republicans are fear-mongers.
The "anger" of the "Left" is going to be a major campaign theme for Republicans. Anyone wanting to do well against them is going to have to figure out how to deflect or at least neutralize sheeples' fear. I'm not convinced that reason can do the job, and no, I don't have alternatives to suggest or I'd go into the campaign strategy business.
You couldn't be more wrong. Real acts of civil disobedience, which as I have said, has nothing to do with civility, will scare the shit out of them, make them sit up and take notice. Do you think they are scared of the left now? This is all bullshit. They think we are easily cowed passive-aggressive whiners who "cut and run" and they are mostly right. Just listen to you. How can the left be both "angry and unhinged" and pacifists who want to " give a hug the terrorists" simultaneously?
Who gives a shit what they say about you or me or the left? Fuck them. If you are going to care about what people like that say about you, we are already dead. I hate neo-Nazis, but you could learn a trick or two from them. We actually have something worth fighting for. Nazis don't. That never stops a few of them from walking through a black neighborhood and having people say nasty things about them. Your attitude is less likely to get people to join your party than the Nazi's is. The way things are going, people have been defecting from the left. Why? because they perceive us as weak. I'm not weak. I will do some very uncivil things when the time comes. Sometimes a patriot has to stand up and fight, and suffer a little abuse, and dish a little abuse out.
active citizen 2006,
ReplyDeleteI look forward to contributing to your campaign.
Here's some handwaving cultural critique to add to the political commentary...
ReplyDeleteIn related reading, there was A brief history of heckling recently in The Guardian.
"Catcalls and slow handclaps forced the health secretary Patricia Hewitt to abandon a speech to a nurses' union this week. At least she's part of a distinguished tradition, says Michael White - when done well, the heckle is a fine political art"
It is emblematic of the cultural differences between the US and the rest of the world that we find this prickliness to time-honoured resistance techniques, satire and heckling. As an observer, it appears that the stereotypes of Anericans as overly earnest and/or hypocritical puritans are underpinned by a grain of truth... Witness the reaction to Colbert and the New School.
And a note of FACT for Rich and all the hypocrites on the Right:
ReplyDeleteAt last Wednesday's Senate Appropriations hearing Arlen Specter asked if Secretary Rumsfeld and General Pace if criticism from retired Generals effects troop morale. Their answers?
Secretary Rumsfeld: "NO"
General Pace: "NO"
Hey Rich, you could look it up. I saw if with my very own eyes on C-SPAN - that bastion of liberal hate.
brotherbruz said...Coleman McCarthy, said in a Politics of Non-Violence Course I took years ago, "Nature placed the human heart a bit on the left" side of the body for a reason...It's right where a god, or notion of how a 'good nature' would act...politically, stay a bit on the Left.
ReplyDeleteThat made my visit here today all the more a treat. Thanks, bro.
Gen. Wes Clark spoke at my sister's graduation from Wagner College, and it was definitely the kick-off of his '08 campaign for Prez. I think the majority reaction was boredom, followed by applause when the University president came back to the podium following the speech and announced "Now, let's get back to the graduates."
ReplyDeleteSo, it was an anti-Bush speech, but produced little or no reaction. Is there an Angry Left element here or not?
Greenwald: "Sneering at war heroes was one of the principal tactics of the Bush re-election campaign and has been a reliable tool to attack and smear any war hero who speaks out against this administration."
ReplyDeleteIn this particular instance, the right's stance is even more hypocritical. No one has treated John McCain and his true heroism in war worse than George Bush and is attack dog Rove who started a whispering campaign during the 2000 primaries that the torture McCain had undergone in Vietnam had made McCain mentally unstable and unfit to be president.
There is an old saying...
ReplyDeleteONE MIGHT AS WELL BE HANGED FOR A SHEEP AS A LAMB
[Q] From Jo Ward: “Have you heard of the saying you might as well be tried for a lamb rather than a sheep or something like that?”
[A] Something like is right. The standard form is one might as well be hanged for a sheep as a lamb, though you sometimes come across it as one might as well be hanged for a goat as a lamb. Strictly, it’s a justification or excuse for going on to commit some greater offence once one has perpetrated a minor one. These days it often suggests that once one has become involved in some affair or incident (not necessarily illegal), one may as well commit oneself entirely.
This example is from Sons and Lovers by D H Lawrence, of 1913: “It seemed as if she did not like being discovered in her home circumstances... But she might as well be hung for a sheep as for a lamb. She invited him out of the mausoleum of a parlour into the kitchen.”
The origin lies in the brutal history of English law. At one time, a great many crimes automatically attracted the death penalty: you could be hanged, for example, for stealing goods worth more than a shilling. Sheep stealing was among these capital crimes. So if you were going to steal a sheep, you might as well take a full-grown one rather than a lamb, because the penalty was going to be the same either way.
Since the law was reformed in the 1820s to end the death penalty for the crime, the proverb must be older; in fact the earliest example known is from John Ray’s English Proverbs of 1678: “As good be hang’d for an old sheep as a young lamb”.
Since you will be hanged either way by the right and the press, in this case, kick as much righty ass as you can. Or as the Bible says, "If thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out".
In this particular instance, the right's stance is even more hypocritical. No one has treated John McCain and his true heroism in war worse than George Bush and is attack dog Rove who started a whispering campaign during the 2000 primaries that the torture McCain had undergone in Vietnam had made McCain mentally unstable and unfit to be president.
ReplyDeleteThis is correct, but as McCain himself has said, he is no war hero, whereas John Kerry was.
Later in life, McCain would quip, "Do not call me a 'war hero'...I am anything but! The fact that I was incompetent enough to get shot down twice in war should dissuade you from that fact."
The truth is he was at best very unlucky, at worst, perhaps incompetent. Having said that, it's a shame we didn't get McCain in 2000. At least he wasn't an AWOL coward like Bush.
Prior to becoming a Naval Aviator, McCain flew the propellor-driven A-1 Skyraider on Navy cruises to Europe. During a trip to attend the Army-Navy game, McCain suffered an engine failure and was forced to eject from his crippled aircraft. This rash of accidents was not uncommon during the era of Navy flying McCain was in. Tom Wolfe's The Right Stuff explains that a career naval aviator (20 year pilot) was statistically expected to have to eject from his aircraft at least twice in the span of a career.
McCain escaped death once again in 1967. While the USS Forrestal sat off the coast of Vietnam preparing for attacks, a Zuni rocket from an F-4 Phantom was accidentally launched across the carrier's deck. The rocket struck McCain's A-4E Skyhawk as it was preparing for launch. The impact ruptured the aircraft's fuel tank. Leaking fuel ignited, knocking two bombs loose. McCain escaped from his jet by climbing out of the cockpit, walking down to the nose of the plane, and jumping off the nose boom onto the burning deck. Ninety seconds after the impact, the bomb exploded underneath the airplane. McCain was struck in the legs and chest by shrapnel. The ensuing fire killed 134 sailors, destroyed 20 aircraft and threatened to sink the ship.[1] Film shot aboard the Forrestal shows McCain narrowly escaping the explosion.
After the Forrestal incident, McCain volunteered to join the VA-163 Saints on board the Oriskany, which was short-handed after a separate deck incident on that ship. The Saints squadron and its parent Air Wing 16 suffered the highest loss rate of any Navy Flying unit during the entire Vietnam War. This was due to the perilous missions assigned to it and to the aggressive demeanor of its aviators. On October 26, 1966, prior to McCain's transfer to that carrier, the mis-handling of a flare had resulted in a deck fire (44 men lost their lives, including 24 pilots).
Yep, this WSJ screed surpassed the usual daily dose of insanity and thick-headedness. After railing about the "ugliness of the New School crowd" and that "[the commencement speaker, Ms. Rohe,] mocked the invited guest as he sat nearby", the WSJ prints the offending remarks. The first, where Ms. Rohe finds McCain lacking in the spirit of the founders of the New School was a bit rude, albeit probably true. The second "offending" remark:
ReplyDeleteI am young, and though I don't profess the wisdom that time affords us, I do know that preemptive war is dangerous, and I know that despite all the havoc that my country has wrought overseas in my name, Osama Bin Laden still has not been found, nor have those weapons of mass destruction.
I don't get it -- this is a criticism of her speech?. Isn't this statement almost a truism? And the editorial can only sputter about this being "only blocks away" from the WTC. Please, Mr./Ms. Editor, read that part about OBL again in Ms. Rohe's speech put two and two together...
"The Right" seems to be acting as though just calling "the Left" angry should be enough to shame us and shut us up (just like calling someone "liberal" should be sufficient to smear that individual, without defining "liberal" and why it's so bad). This allows "the Right" to imply (without the inconvenient necessity of explanation and justification) that "the Left" has nothing to be angry about. Not about constant secrecy, coverups, misdirection, disrespect for our environment, venality, incompetence, power grabs, and outright lies (I'm sure I've left something out) on the part of the Bush administration since its inception?
ReplyDeleteI sort of expect my government to lie to an enemy -- but not to me. Unless it considers me the enemy -- in which case, what am I supposed to consider my government?
divorced: Someone needs to send Instapundit et al a tape of the British Parliament. Especially when the Prime Minister is speaking.
ReplyDeleteGeorge "Pretty Boy" Galloway said on Bill Maher that Bush wouldn't stand a chance in this type of environment. He'd have to have his momma call up the offenders and threaten some unspecified vengeance.
Bart was asking for some instances where Bush lied. Here ya go Bart. We've got Bush, Cheney and Ronald Dumsfeld. Just watch the video and listen to the audio. BTW Bart, were you lying to us the other day when you said we were winning the war in Iraq or just making shit up off the top of your pointed little head? Apparently victory and mission accomplished is now off the table. That GOP and RNC machine like organization just ain't what it used to be, is it?
ReplyDeleteErin M said...
ReplyDeleteGen. Wes Clark spoke at my sister's graduation from Wagner College, and it was definitely the kick-off of his '08 campaign for Prez. I think the majority reaction was boredom, followed by applause when the University president came back to the podium following the speech and announced "Now, let's get back to the graduates."
So, it was an anti-Bush speech, but produced little or no reaction. Is there an Angry Left element here or not?
Would they have preferred Condi or Cheney or Rumsfeld?
I agree with Pippen. Not only is all of this well backed, cited, and presented, it's accessible and undeniable- nearly impervious to spin. You ought to be writing for Time and WaPo is right. F'in A.
ReplyDeleteGlenn, you probably could do this at least as effectively, and save wear and tear on the keyboard, by taking a page from Billmon. Juxtapose the passages; your readers can do the rest.
ReplyDeleteIt's awe-inspiring to see a rational moderate like Glenn pushed step by step into radical opposition to Rethug despotism. Unlike spineless liberals, he knows there is no middle ground to be negotiated with rachet-headed hypocrites. Their purpose is not to win the debate, but to pummel all dissent into silence. Glenn understands that it's important not only to dissect their flawed arguments, but to emphasize how they abuse their audience with deliberately misleading propaganda.
ReplyDeleteGlenn:
ReplyDeleteGreat post! (One of your best, in fact.)
I notice that you link (four times) to Gateway Pundit, but not to the Instapundit post. I had to go hunting for it. You might want to link to both so that Mr. Reynolds sees your post sooner. I actually kind of eager to see if he'll try to wiggle out of this one.
Funny, I think the best example of Supporting The Troops probably doesn't include deliberately sending them into battle underequipped with enough efficient body & vehicle armor
ReplyDeleteBut if that's the standard Instapundit looks on and supports from this Administration, that's certainly his right
Glenn, you'll like this. On the Dog Whisperer show (you remember the Dog Whisperer whose pre-order was challenging HWAPA at Amazon?), one of his most critical training techniques is to correct the dog at the very first sign of poor behavior, not to wait until the poor behavior exhibits itself - then it's too late. To connect the dot, what we have here is a group of people who have developed poor behavior that has never been challenged much less corrected and now we are all left with bad dogs.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteMy daughter graduated from New School/Parsons School of Design this year so I, my wife and twenty five year old son were attendees at the graduation ceremony at which Senator McCain spoke.
ReplyDeleteGlenn quotes the Wall Street Journal: "a senior invited to speak threw out her prepared remarks and mocked their invited guest as he sat nearby."
The senior's name was Jean Sara Rohe. She did not mock McCain, but debated him. She knew ahead of time what he was going to say since he was giving the same speech as he already given at Liberty College and Columbia University. She was thoughtful, eloquent and brave, if idealistic. Her speech deservedly received a standing ovation, and pretty much kicked butt on debate points.
When McCain began to speak, many students either turned their backs or held up protest signs. And while it was true that there was some smattering of heckling and boos throughout the course of the speech, McCain’s words could be plainly heard. The students did not stop him from giving his opinions, but only let him clearly know that they disagreed. There was louder dissent when McCain voiced his support of the Iraq war. However, especially among the parents, there was also applause. The same was true at the end of McCain’s speech.
Among the parents applauding at the end was a man sitting to the right of us who stood and clapped enthusiastically. When he sat down, my son leaned over and asked if, after the ceremony, he was going to ask his graduating son to enlist. The man gave an angry look and said to him “I will not debate you”. Which my son took to mean no, the man would not be asking his own son to enlist and fight in the war he was so enthusiastically supporting.
John Kerry, the New Schools president and a friend of John McCain, complimented both McCain and Ms.Rohe for standing up at the microphone and bravely speaking their minds, however he chastised the "heckling from the audience where no bravery is required."
At dinner afterwards, we talked about the graduation ceremony and whether the heckling was bad form and even, and Mr. Kerry opined, cowardly. As you might expect, we decided not. After all, there was only one microphone and five thousand people. I am sure that all of the people protesting would have gladly taken the microphone and spoke just as bravely, if not as eloquently, as Ms. Rohe.
Anyhow, it was an interesting day, and the least boring graduation ceremony I have ever attended.
By the way, anybody out there know of any job openings for a freshly graduated student with a BFA in fine arts?
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteThere is a fundamental difference between planned demonstrations by leftist students and professors with preprinted signs against McCain and Rice and the spontaneous outrage by parents and students pissed at Murtha and Clay for attacking their country and the military.
ReplyDeleteHowever, Rice had the best rejoinder of the group. When asked by reporters how she felt about the long planned protest, Rice replied that she was proud of the students for exercising their right to protest and proud of having been part of bringing that right to Iraqi citizens.
Rice 1, Protesters 0
The Right" seems to be acting as though just calling "the Left" angry should be enough to shame us and shut us up.
ReplyDeleteThe reason they do it is because it works. By trying to portray the left flank of the party as angry and out of control, they manage to cow the right/center half into submission. Then they turn around and manage to paint the whole party as wimps who are soft on terror and the DLC crowd falls right into the trap.
I love GG and his work on the excess of the Bush Admin - are we going to learn for this aor are we going to repeat his bullshit. Did I judge you right? Are you really cheering on people who are as self-absorbed and unwilling to listen to their 'opponents' as anyone in the Bush Admin?
ReplyDeletephat said...
ReplyDeleteBart: However, Rice had the best rejoinder of the group. When asked by reporters how she felt about the long planned protest, Rice replied that she was proud of the students for exercising their right to protest and proud of of having been part of bringing that right to Iraqi citizens.
Bart, that is not a clever rejoinder.
Where exactly did you see the adjective clever in my post? Rice's observation is not particularly clever, it is self evident to most people.
You need to acquaint yourself with this word.
cant n.
1. Monotonous talk filled with platitudes.
2. Hypocritically pious language.
It is somewhere between amusing and pathetic that the posters of this blog furiously argue informing the enemy about intelligence programs targeting the enemy is the epitome of freedom of speech but find the hundreds of new television stations, news papers and blogs debating democracy in Iraq is "monotonous."
I'm glad that Bart and the GOP are attacking free speech at every turn. I hope they continue to come down hard on any patriot who wants our soldiers to fight necessary wars.
ReplyDeleteI'm sooo looking forward to the next election
I love GG and his work on the excess of the Bush Admin - are we going to learn for this aor are we going to repeat his bullshit. Did I judge you right? Are you really cheering on people who are as self-absorbed and unwilling to listen to their 'opponents' as anyone in the Bush Admin?
ReplyDeleteTheir points have not been different for years now. No new ideas. No new plans. Only platitudes.
When the GOP has something new to add, let me know. Until then, I would rather listen to someone who has some credibility left.
phat said...
ReplyDeleteWhat I find monotonous is this...
Rice replied that she was proud of the students for exercising their right to protest and proud of of having been part of bringing that right to Iraqi citizens.
It's empty-headed rhetoric. What right to protest do the people have in Iraq have right now?
There have been dozens of peaceful demonstrations in Iraq since the liberation - demonstrations against the Coalition, against the elected government, against the foreign al Qeada terrorists, against other political factions and recently unity demonstrations with Sunni and Shia against a civil war.
Show me an example where the right dissent is being fostered by the government there.
Dissent against the government is almost never encouraged by any government - democratic or otherwise. In a democracy with freedom of speech, dissent is tolerated and accepted.
HWSNBN:
ReplyDelete... and the spontaneous outrage by parents and students pissed at Murtha and Clay for attacking their country and the military....
Yep. Rethuglicans are good at that "spontaneous outrage" crap. Like flying in your "Young Americans for Freedom" to stage a riot, pretending to be Florida voters. And sending in the thugs to disrupt Democratic campaign rallies and whack a few little old ladied, just in case, to be sure they get the message.
HWSNBN can take his "civility" and shove it where the sun don't shine ... and if I ever see that lying, un-American piece'o'crap on the street, I'll do it for him. I think that's the only language he's capable of understanding.
Cheers,
HWSNBN can take his "civility" and shove it where the sun don't shine ... and if I ever see that lying, un-American piece'o'crap on the street, I'll do it for him.
ReplyDeleteYes but how do you REALLY feel ;-)
Phat:
ReplyDelete[HWSNBN: ... Rice replied that she was proud of the students for exercising their right to protest and proud of of having been part of bringing that right to Iraqi citizens.
Bart, that is not a clever rejoinder.
You need to acquaint yourself with this word.
cant n.
1. Monotonous talk filled with platitudes.
2. Hypocritically pious language.
Reminds me of the quip about Iraq's Constitution: "Hey. why not let thjem have ours? Works pretty well, and We're not using it."
See below thread on the maladministration's attempts to stifle even a hint of a "discouraging word" about maladministration incompetence, corruption, and illegality. Fortunately (except for HWSNBN and similar Dubay-butt-suckers), I don't think it's gonna work, and Dubya continues to tank in pretty much every arena adn even the cowed media is starting to grow a small pair....
Cheers,
PHD9:
ReplyDeleteYes but how do you REALLY feel ;-)
I do have some tolerance for honest conservatives. One of my better friends at Boalt was quite conservative, and we honed our skill on each other, but could still respect one another at the end of the day.
What I can't stand is people of no honesty, no morals, and no "principles" worth speaking of. That pretty much sums up Bart's better side. They're scum. They wouldn't be quite such scum if they took their sad troupe to the woods of Idaho and just took it out on their wives ... but they have every intention of using this fine country as a personal toilet and PIN-free ATM and screwing the rest of us over (just look at the last five years for how we can go from good times down to the depths in all measurable areas within half a decade of their rapacity, ignorance, and sleaze).
Bart's lies and prevarications here are legion, and his twisting and mangling of "law" to further his political (or whatever it is) ambitions is disgusting.
Then he's a blowhard, coming close to a fraud in a legal sense (which someone ought to point out to the Colorado bar)....
And that's his good points....
Cheers,
I would recommend to Representatives Clay and Murtha that they adopt the policy I used to use when delivering antiwar speeches on college campuses as an antiwar Vietnam veteran, and would be harassed by the Young American Fascists: I would say to them, "If you're such a patriot and a believer in the war, why haven't you dropped out of school to volunteer for service, the way your father did in World War II?"
ReplyDeleteIt shut them up, every time. And it will shut them up every time now, because everyone knows Right Wingers never go actually put their ass on the line, they just join the 69th Keyboard Kommando Killers. Screw the chicken hawks.
Frankly, my dear, ... said...
ReplyDeleteBart said: pissed at Murtha and Clay for attacking their country and the military.
That is an outright lie. Murta has never, ever attacked the miltary.
BS. The man has called for the military to surrender Iraqi to the enemy because the military has failed in its mission and is "broken" when in fact the military has accomplished all of its missions and is not close to broken as its members are reenlisting at record rates.
Screw him. A former Marine officer should know better.
See the usual group of idiots found their way upstairs, are getting up on their tiny little soapboxes, and are showing the world how smart they are by trying to refute the blantant lies and obvious copy-and-paste talking points.
ReplyDeleteI know the little minded folks would be here eventually.
From Bart at 10:24PM:
ReplyDelete"The man has called for the military to surrender Iraqi to the enemy because the military has failed in its mission and is "broken" when in fact the military has accomplished all of its missions and is not close to broken as its members are reenlisting at record rates."
Odd. I recall Rep. Murtha calling for a phased draw-down of our forces, retaining a rapid-deployment force in staging areas o-t-h, so the Iraqis Army could take over the security environment (a task I believe you've stated, more than once and without citation, they are more than ready for).
Or were you simply blowing smoke?
Arne Langsetmo said...
ReplyDeleteBart:... and the spontaneous outrage by parents and students pissed at Murtha and Clay for attacking their country and the military....
Yep. Rethuglicans are good at that "spontaneous outrage" crap.
Fool, read the links which Glenn posted. The people most pissed off were the parents of the students.
Like flying in your "Young Americans for Freedom" to stage a riot, pretending to be Florida voters.
LMAO! You mean the Elephants who demonstrated outside the Miami-Dade elections HQ and stopped the Donkey elections officials from manufacturing votes for algore which were never found in later media counts? These guys didn't pretend to be local voters. They freely and eagerly told the press who they were.
And sending in the thugs to disrupt Democratic campaign rallies and whack a few little old ladied, just in case, to be sure they get the message.
Oh puleeze...
Some old guy in a Delay t shirt gets in a shouting match and allegedly touches some old woman at a demonstration.
Folks, go look at the photo at this link. This is your idea of a Nazi?
HWSNBN can take his "civility" and shove it where the sun don't shine ... and if I ever see that lying, un-American piece'o'crap on the street, I'll do it for him. I think that's the only language he's capable of understanding.
Ooooh, another anonymous internet tough guy as well as a liar. A bit of advice - grow up and get a life.
We should always listen to the concern trolls, so as to do the opposite.
ReplyDeleteBlowhard resume-padder HWSNBN gets careless:
ReplyDeleteBS. The man has called for the military to surrender Iraqi to the enemy because the military has failed in its mission....
He misspells "maladministration".
One thing I'd note is the lack of actual quotes by the lying troll to back up his dishonest assertions. If he'd just do the ol' cut'n'paste (from sources other tham Freeperville and WhirledNutzDaily) of real verifiable quotes, he wouldn't be prone to such spelling errors.
Cheers,
TCinLA said...
ReplyDeleteI would recommend to Representatives Clay and Murtha that they adopt the policy I used to use when delivering antiwar speeches on college campuses as an antiwar Vietnam veteran, and would be harassed by the Young American Fascists: I would say to them, "If you're such a patriot and a believer in the war, why haven't you dropped out of school to volunteer for service, the way your father did in World War II?"
Almost all of the men and women serving in the military now share the same beliefs as the people you slander as "Young American Fascists."
Why don't you and Murtha bring your show to an audience of veterans from Iraq and check out their reaction.
yankeependragon said...
ReplyDeleteFrom Bart at 10:24PM: "The man has called for the military to surrender Iraqi to the enemy because the military has failed in its mission and is "broken" when in fact the military has accomplished all of its missions and is not close to broken as its members are reenlisting at record rates."
Odd. I recall Rep. Murtha calling for a phased draw-down of our forces, retaining a rapid-deployment force in staging areas o-t-h, so the Iraqis Army could take over the security environment (a task I believe you've stated, more than once and without citation, they are more than ready for).
You apparently hear what you want to hear.
Murtha called for an "immediate" cut and run from the battlefield in Iraq bringing most troops home and leaving a small force in the safety of Kuwait where the enemy is not. His reasons for this surrender of the battlefield to the enemy was that the military had failed in its mission and was broken.
The "phased withdrawal" song and dance was a spin after the GOP in the House gleefully put up a resolution echoing Murtha's first cut and run speech to the press.
HWSNBN gets caught and gets pissy about it:
ReplyDelete[Bart]:... and the spontaneous outrage by parents and students pissed at Murtha and Clay for attacking their country and the military....
Yep. Rethuglicans are good at that "spontaneous outrage" crap.
Fool, read the links which Glenn posted. The people most pissed off were the parents of the students.
According to who??? Rick Lowry??? The WSJ Editorial page??? I just pointed out that you can't take a Republican-butt-sucker's word for anything, including "spontaneous outrage". They manufacture the stuff....
But to be fair, I did go peek at some of "the links which Glenn posted". Not at all strangely, IC that HWSNBN is once again off the Thorazine and floridly psychotic. Even the Lowry links and the WSJ editorial didn't talk about "spontaneous outrage by parents and students". And as Glenn points out, the "Gateway Pundit" is full'o'shite and not even worth giving a click counter to....
Cheers,
The "Angry Left," huh?
ReplyDeleteI couldn't be prouder!
In this case of so-called politeness anything a lefty does will be rude and anything a Republican does will be considered polite even if they are identical things.
ReplyDeleteTo state again what I said earlier. They are doing this deliberately and Democrats would be well advised to think carefully about the best way to deal with it.
Those of us who opposed Iraq from the beginning, did so from a sense of morality knowing that regardless of how one felt about the use of force overall, war that could not be construed as defensive could not be justified. We are now the ones being labelled the "angry left" We are the ones bart is encouraging to be more vocal, because he knows that regardless of out actual positions on issues, it easy to caricature us as fringe players. The DLC crowd on the other hand, is so afraid to be seen under the same umbrella as the idealists, take on a "don't rock the boat" strategy which totally allows them to be portrayed (correctly) as spineless.
All the NRO folks are doing is trying to help drive that split wider.
HWSNBN lies his a$$ off once more:
ReplyDeleteThese guys didn't pretend to be local voters. They freely and eagerly told the press who they were.
Can it, Bart. That's just flat-out-false. No one here's buying your RW propaganda crapola.
Some old guy in a Delay t shirt gets in a shouting match and allegedly touches some old woman at a demonstration.
It's not a "demonstration". DeLay sent in his thugs to rough up a Democratic rally. Which they did, assaulting an old lady on the way. That's Bart's GOP in action.
Folks, go look at the photo at this link. This is your idea of a Nazi?
Ummmm. Hmmmm.... Close as makes no difference. Brown-shirt, to be exact. Literally. HWSNBN is lacking in any education, notaqbly in history.
[Arne]: HWSNBN can take his "civility" and shove it where the sun don't shine ... and if I ever see that lying, un-American piece'o'crap on the street, I'll do it for him. I think that's the only language he's capable of understanding.
[HWGBAP]: Ooooh, another anonymous internet tough guy as well as a liar. A bit of advice - grow up and get a life.
Projection: The Sysiphean curse of today's Republicans. What a wanker. And, seeing as we're seeing projection in its purest form here, obviously a pussy (REMF too?). But we know from his website he's a blowhard.
Signed,
-- The "anonymous" (ROFLAMO) Arne Langsetmo
Yankeependragon says:
ReplyDeleteOdd. I recall Rep. Murtha calling for a phased draw-down of our forces, retaining a rapid-deployment force in staging areas o-t-h, so the Iraqis Army could take over the security environment (a task I believe you've stated, more than once and without citation, they are more than ready for).
Actually that was the spin. The operative section of his resolution was...
" Section 1. The deployment of United States forces in Iraq, by direction of Congress, is
hereby terminated and the forces involved are to be redeployed at the earliest practicable
date."
While the Hunter resolution that was voted down 403-3 reads as
"Resolved, That it is the sense of the House of Representatives that the deployment of United States forces in Iraq be terminated immediately.
Bold emphasis is mine. Murtha was in fact lying about the actual effect of his resolution.
HWSNBN:
ReplyDeleteWhy don't you and Murtha bring your show to an audience of veterans from Iraq and check out their reaction.
Al Franken has been to Iraq. And well-received by the troops.
Murtha's been over there too. Murtha's also been visiting wounded veterans stateside.
Neither of them needed the troops vetted, and even then, checked for arms, when (and if) they were allowed near them ... unlike, say ... Commander Codpiece?
HWSNBN is simply psychotic if he thinks that just because the 101st Keyboarders are up in arms about people darign to disagree with the Doofus-In-Chief about the failed Iraq war, that the veterans are also. In fact, this delusion has been pointed out to HWSNBN a number of times on past threads ... but reality won't sink in to the thick heads of the True Believers such as HWSNBN.
But it's incumbent on us to say "Bulls**t" when he keeps repeating himself....
Cheers,
shooter demonstrates profound reading impairment:
ReplyDelete[yankeependragon]: Odd. I recall Rep. Murtha calling for a phased draw-down of our forces, retaining a rapid-deployment force in staging areas o-t-h, so the Iraqis Army could take over the security environment (a task I believe you've stated, more than once and without citation, they are more than ready for).
Actually that was the spin. The operative section of his resolution was...
" Section 1. The deployment of United States forces in Iraq, by direction of Congress, is
hereby terminated and the forces involved are to be redeployed at the earliest practicable
date."
And..... Your point?
While the Hunter resolution that was voted down 403-3 reads as
"Resolved, That it is the sense of the House of Representatives that the deployment of United States forces in Iraq be terminated immediately.
Bold emphasis is mine. Murtha was in fact lying about the actual effect of his resolution.
Ummmm, you mean that Murtha was lying, not once, but twice, about Republican Congressman Hunter's resolution, once in claiming authorship of Hunter's resolution for himself, and another time in misstating what the resolution he'd stolen from Hunter said???
Hmmmm, maybe the sarcasm's a bit too deep for Shooter here. Perhaps I should explain it:
Murta called for re-deployment as soon as "practicable" (and for the stationing of troops ready to move in if things get any worse than they are ... if that's possible). The Republican Hunter (in a base political manoeuvre) called for "immediate[]" redeployment. As is obvious from the quotes. Thanks for the info, though.
Cheers,
Glenn,
ReplyDeleteI just got home but sitting there in my door was your book. I'm really excited. I can't wait to sit down tomorrow and start reading. Thanks
davidbyron:
ReplyDelete... all feminist sites do ban critics of feminism.
Oh, really??? You keep getting booted for being an azo? Keep in mind that "proof by personal and misunderstood experience" is not a valid form of proof.
So out with it. Let's have the lists, the data, and the numbers for this ... ummm, "unique" ... insight of yours.
Cheers,
Cheers,
davidbyron:
ReplyDeleteThere's a very real sense in which anything a feminist says these days is just nonsense simply as a result of the lack of any context or commentry (let alone criticism) other than other ideologically pure feminists. It's a closed system. A foreign language. The results are predictable; feminists tralk unworldly nonsense.
OIC. That explains it. ;-)
So you're not one for the ... umm, "social graces", eh, David? Betcha 'they' have a secret e-mail servlist that puts out stuff like "Ban David Byron pre-emptively or he'll bring our whole crumbling edifice crashing down with his piercing logic ... and if he shows up on caller-ID late on a Friday night or in the run-up to New Year's, report him to the cops"....
ROFLMAO.
Cheers,
bart said...
ReplyDeleteBS. The man has called for the military to surrender Iraqi to the enemy because the military has failed in its mission and is "broken" when in fact the military has accomplished all of its missions and is not close to broken as its members are reenlisting at record rates.
Screw him. A former Marine officer should know better."
He does know better Bart, much better than you.
Study: Army stretched to breaking point
WASHINGTON (AP) — Stretched by frequent troop rotations to Iraq and Afghanistan, the Army has become a "thin green line" that could snap unless relief comes soon, according to a study for the Pentagon.
Andrew Krepinevich, a retired Army officer who wrote the report under a Pentagon contract, concluded that the Army cannot sustain the pace of troop deployments to Iraq long enough to break the back of the insurgency. He also suggested that the Pentagon's decision, announced in December, to begin reducing the force in Iraq this year was driven in part by a realization that the Army was overextended.
As evidence, Krepinevich points to the Army's 2005 recruiting slump — missing its recruiting goal for the first time since 1999 — and its decision to offer much bigger enlistment bonuses and other incentives.
Not to mention the 13,000 enlisted being held in the military past their contract date under stop loss. Despite the fact that the military is not allowing reserve officers to resign their commissions once their time is up.
Bart said:
ReplyDelete"Why don't you and Murtha bring your show to an audience of veterans from Iraq and check out their reaction."
Be happy to Bart. The last poll says 72% of the troops serving in Iraq want us to be out within a year.
arne mentions Commander Codpiece, without--horrors!--providing a link for those who somehow missed the photo op, or who saw it and now wish to review it. So here you go.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.billmon.org/archives/codpiece.jpg
I was stuck in front of Faux news earlier today, listening to Chris Matthews jabber. I sure do wish those boys would run an oldies but goodies edition sometime, so that the base--who of course are all het up about gays--could once again hear Matthews's paean to Dubya's "manhood" in response to the first publication of this picture.
Some decent analysis of the McCain speech and reaction to it by Jean Rohe at Majikthise's (Lindsay Bayerstein) blog:
ReplyDeleteImagine you're Jean Rohe. You learn that the University administration has allowed John McCain to hijack your commencement ceremonies. To add insult to injury, he's been bragging to the press about how he's going to give a canned speech. That's not all, it's a canned speech about how today's college graduates are too vain, self-important, and naive to participate in American political discourse. So, your convocation has become a campaign event for a Republican presidential hopeful who appears to hold you in contempt. Should you just play along? I don't think so.
Lest we forget, Boston College's faculty and students dissed Condi too. According to Media Matters, John Gibson "claimed that "their values seem to be intolerance, closed-mindedness, and the cocksuredness of youth that allows a college student to pass high-minded judgment on a secretary of state."
ReplyDeleteIn fact, while Gibson highlighted Rice's role in the war in Afghanistan and the crisis in Darfur, the BC professors who organized the protest -- theology professor David Hollenbach and Theology Department chairman Kenneth Himes -- made clear in a letter that they, and the students and faculty who subsequently joined them, opposed Rice's participation in the commencement at BC because they said that she has embraced two specific positions they believe violate Catholic teaching and Jesuit tradition: the view that "U.S. foreign policy should be based [exclusively] on U.S. national interest" and "the strategic policies that have guided the United States in the tragic war in Iraq."
You have it backwards. We Elephants want the anti war left to be as noisy as possible demanding that the country cut and run. You are free campaign commercial the Elephants want to hang around the Donkeys necks like an albatross.
ReplyDelete8:41 PM
Of course you do Bart, because it's the overwhelming public support for Iraq that's driving the President's Approval ratings down, right?
Must sure suck to be one of the rapidly dwindling number of true W starry eyed believers
Hey, what happened to all that "Political Capital" Dear Leader W earned?
Let me get this straight. Are you calling opposition to the war in Iraq intolerant?
ReplyDeleteHell NO!!!! If I meant that I would not have refer to the students a Liberty Univ as intolerant too, would I?
What I find intolerant is the idea that choosing to speak at Liberty Univ makes one a moral pariah that should not even be part of the conversation from here on out.
What I find intolerant is the idea that support for the Iraq war (in 2003) is ipso facto proof of being an ammoral monster because no possibly right-thinking person could have come to a different conclusion.
I'm really sick of this bullshit moral certainty that admits no room for honorable disagreement. The rightwingers boneheads call GG a traitor because they cannot phathom that he might be motivated by a deep commitment to the constitution. The leftwing boneheads call anyone who supported this war a "fascist" because they cannot phathom that we may really have thought (in error, but good faith) that it would result in less dead Iraqis that 20+ years of Saddam rule and the almost inevitable power struggle amongst his first-tier following his death.
Go ahead and disagree with the war all you want. I regret my "support" - meaningless as it was. But this country is F-ed if the only lesson learned from this experience is that we, as a country, should persecute a different set of "heretics".
Hypocrites have a good reason for going to the standard paternalistic, conservative deflection of obsessing over (usually ascribed) tone and etiquette.
ReplyDeleteUnwritten rules can be made up as they go along and they never have to address the substance of the matter because criticism and dissent is innately rude to them.
Torture's just a fraternity prank that the "unhinged" (humorless) Left doesn't get. The First Frattie waved off his scummy strategy painting McCain as a traitor while a POW (and later, as fathering a black baby) as "just politics". Rev. Lowrey's (no relation) oblique criticism of the admin at Mrs. Scott-King's funeral was "undignified", though not the spectacle of Bush Sr. and Bush Jr. giggling uproariously at that same event like a couple of rodeo clowns.
The right wing is repulsive to pretend always that they are above reproach. Watching them cannibalize each other now (a natural outcome of the predator and scavenger populations growing too powerful) only gives me solace because of how disgusting they must be to each other.
anonymous:
ReplyDeleteThe leftwing boneheads call anyone who supported this war a "fascist" because they cannot phathom that we may really have thought (in error, but good faith) that it would result in less dead Iraqis that 20+ years of Saddam rule and the almost inevitable power struggle amongst his first-tier following his death.
Nah. It's the ones who still support the war after it's been made clear to the most brain-dead eedjit that the war was a war of choice, one of aggression, and based on lies, and worst of all, not likely even to achieve the "third string" excuse for such (you know, bad deeds that unintentionally achieve good -- which in this case ain't gonna happen -- are still bad deeds ... "the ends justify the means" is hardly a moral philosophy, and "happy accidents justify the means even less so").
I have no problem with those that say they were snookered (although anyone paying attention shouldn't have been), and that own up to reality. I'd even cut a little slack to those that have grown a conscience and realize that they went astray from moral principles ... as long as they acknowledge such.
What I truly can't abide are those that continue to insist that what was done was justified ... or good, and that keep thrwoing around obvious falsehoods and prevarications in defence of their mistakes. Not fascists, but harldy of any moral charater worth recognizing.
Then there's trolls like HWSNBN who's in it for something, money, general viciousness and racism/xenophobia, fear of things that go bump in the night, fascist tendencies, the pursuit of a Republican one-party state, whatever, that truly do bring to mind what it was that fascism was all about. They'd have your liberties in a millisecond ... if they could. And they'll do anything to get them. They are to loathed.
Does that help clarify things?
Cheers,
late here, but: you nailed it. I hope Lowry reads this. And many others as well.
ReplyDeleteAlso -- it's amazing -- Lowry says "running ads attacking a senator in a political campaign ... is obviously above-board."
ReplyDeleteMeaning the rank smears against Cleland and the swift-boating of Kerry were totally fair game, but exercising free-speech rights to dissent in a public forum is not. Unbelievable.
And --
ReplyDeleteIn times like these, 'civility' is overrated.
It's reliably invoked as a (weak) weapon to try to silence dissent. This is the common theme whenever right-wingers decry the lack of 'civility' on the left. They certainly do not hesitate to abandon civility for their own purposes -- the purple band-aids at the R convention were only one example.
From what I can see, it's the anti-war contingent that has been fired up the most and is starting to speak out. One reason may be the most vocal and spreading dissent seems to now be coming from college students who have traditionally been the group which speaks up forcefully enough to have some actual chance of arousing the public at large into forcing the government to change its policies.
ReplyDeleteAlso, it could even be that these students have reached adulthood in a climate where widespread intrusions on privacy and civil liberties are so common that they are almost taken for granted so they never knew any different.
But immoral wars of pre-emption will always be something students understand. Atrocity is atrocity.
The Volokh Conspiracy crowd must be feeling somewhat defeated. The fact that the cartoon controversy didn't provoke the kind of world-wide violence that they tried their best to foment no doubt has them feeling kind of blue.
Fortunately, a new disinformation campaign arrived just in time to save their day:
Iran the Target of Disinformation Campaign
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May 23, 2006
Iran the Target of Disinformation Campaign
by Jim Lobe
A story authored by a prominent U.S. neoconservative regarding new legislation in Iran allegedly requiring Jews and other religious minorities to wear distinctive color badges circulated around the world this weekend before it was exposed as false.
I shudder to go over there and peek. Could they be that brazen?
Oh God. I just went there (warning: I do not recommend a visit for anyone who doesn't want to take the risk of choking to death on his own vomit).
I spoke too quickly. They still haven't given up on the cartoons.
I will refrain from saying what I think about VC solely for purposes of self-preservation.
But I do think it's curious that nobody including Glenn has gotten around to them yet. Why attack only the obvious shills and give a pass to the most insidious?
(Sorry to encourage kkk and all his "anon" posts. Praise Ayn Rand or Paul Craig Roberts or expose all the ugly neoconservative propaganda over at VC and KKK-CO. springs out of the woodwork at a moment's notice ready to attack.)
Anyway I saw this when I was there:
Roberts Seeks Consensus: Speaking to the Georgetown University Law Center's graduating class yesterday, Chief Justice John Roberts explained that he seeks greater consensus and more restraint on the High Court. According to the New York Times report:
He said the nation would benefit if the justices could avoid 5-to-4 decisions in cases with sweeping impact, noting that many of the court's most controversial cases, including presidential wartime powers and political boundaries in Texas, would be decided in the final six weeks of the current term.
"If it is not necessary to decide more to a case, then in my view it is necessary not to decide more to a case," Chief Justice Roberts said. "Division should not be artificially suppressed, but the rule of law benefits from a broader agreement. The broader the agreement among the justices, the more likely it is a decision on the narrowest possible grounds."
OK, I admit I don't know that much about Constitutional Law and maybe that quote is fine with Glenn and everyone here.
As for me, I don't like it.
"If it is not necessary to decide more to a case, then in my view it is necessary not to decide more to a case," Chief Justice Roberts said.
Oh, how clever. The ones who should "restrain themselves" are the "smiling faces" facists.
I will not compromise with evil
ReplyDeleteCome on, you are not being "fair and balanced." The least we can do is leat the treasonous bastards, those that steal from the federal treasury, and war criminals save face.
We owe it to them to meet them half-way in order to show that we are "working with them".
Just like "fair and balanced" means that truth has to be "balanced" with lies in order to be fair.
Heaven forbid, if we didn't not find some common ground with those who are stealing our democracy while committing crimes against humanity, what would we be left with?
A bunch of tree-huggers that talk like Jesus.
He died for our sins for a reason, so we could commit treason, theft, and war-crimes.
ender, can't we just agree to disagree on treason, theft of the federal treasury, destruction of the US Bill of Rights & Constitution, war crimes, and crimes against humanity?
ReplyDeleteWhen WWII ended, didn't we agree to disagree with the Nazis and tell them that all was forgiven?
Can't you see you are destroying America by refusing to meet our great decider at least half way?
Eyes Wide Open said...
ReplyDeleteFrom what I can see, it's the anti-war contingent that has been fired up the most and is starting to speak out.
Idiot.
anonymous:
ReplyDeleteThe libtards are such horrible people. But, then again, so are the far righties. However, the libs have cornered the market on hate and venom.
Congratulations. Seldom have I seen such a sterling example of self-satire. Did you think that one up yourself?
Cheers,
As usual, you miss the critical distinction that any rational reader of the WSJ instantly grasps: the one obtaining between "our" war heroes and their war heroes.
ReplyDeleteMcCain is one of "ours"; Murtha, Kerry and Cleland are theirs. It is only the sneering at "our" heroes that is objectionable. Everyone understands that.
From Bart at 11:06PM:
ReplyDelete"You apparently hear what you want to hear."
No, I read. Something I commend you and your fellow travellers to try sometime.
http://www.house.gov/apps/list/press/pa12_murtha/pr051117iraq.html
I grant Rep. Murtha called for the Pentagon "To immediately redeploy U.S. troops consistent with the safety of U.S. forces", meaning modifying their current posture within the country itself to one where they would be better able to defend themselves and key populations centers (probably taking a line from the British experience in Malaysia in the 1950s and try the whole "strategic enclaves" plan).
In fact, reading through his entire statement, I note he does not call for the evacuation of US forces, a general retreat, nor a 'cut-and-run' as you have so charmingly and petulently put it.
As to the 'resolution' that was entered under his name, I believe that was the edited version the House Leadership introduced so to force a meaningless vote and basically kill all discussion.
Bart, if the war is really so important to you, please go over there and fight it. You've served before, so I'm sure the Army would love to have you (especially with the reported problems they're experiencing with recruitment).
Otherwise, at least be respectful of those whose service is beyond question or reproach.
Hey Glenn. How do we even know that Clay was treated this way at all? All we have are the reports of about a half dozen partisan hacks.
ReplyDeleteThere is no independant confirmation of this from any source that I could find.
This doesn't undermine your centraol pount, of course. Whether this "booing off the stage, near riot" was made up propaganda or actually happened: The hypocrisy of the pro-war wackos is undiminished.
--Heiod
I don't have time to scour 147 comments to make sure no one has raised this point, so I apologize in advance if it's duplicative.
ReplyDeleteI think you can take the hypocrisy one step further: the 2000 Bush campaign smeared JOHN McCAIN, claiming that a) he was "crazy" and "angry" because of the time he spent as a POW in Vietnam and b) that he had an illegitimate black child.
Quite literally, this is a text book case of IOKIYAR.
Everything reinforces what they already want to believe? Um, what exactly do you expect from a bunch of creationists? That's how the engorged olfactoral bulb that passes for their brain simulates rational thought.
ReplyDeleteAs for the press, they'll repeat whatever they think is safe, and the manufactured conventional wisdom is always "safe."
As for "angry," if you're an American and you're not angry about what's been down to this country, they you obviously never gave a fuck about this country to begin with.
But the ugliness of the New School crowd toward Mr. McCain reveals the peculiar rage that now animates so many on the political left.
Peculiar? I guess patriotism would look peculiar to the people at the WSJ. McCain is unpopular because he's attached himself to the failed policies of the Bush administration. The American people don't like a loser.
.
he spontaneous outrage by parents and students pissed at Murtha and Clay for attacking their country and the military.
ReplyDeleteThat's a hypothetical, right? Or is making stuff up the way you run from an argument you can't handle?
Thought so.
.
[Murtha] does not call for the evacuation of US forces, a general retreat, nor a 'cut-and-run' as you have so charmingly and petulently put it.
ReplyDeleteAs Greenwald has already established, the facts don't matter. The narrative is already pre-determined. Only in this very controlled environment can conservatives pretend to have been anything other than a disaster for the country they claim to love.
.
Anybody remember when Chris Hedges gave a graduation speech?
ReplyDeleteShould a defense attorney take advice from a prosecutor?
ReplyDeleteShould you take career advice from a rival co-worker?
Should a football team take advice from their opponent?
Should a political party take advice from the opposition?
Except in rare circumstances, the answers are no, no, no and no. I sometimes worry our Democratic leaders are confused about these questions.
Fact-Checking The Blogs; Left vs. Right
ReplyDeleteAnyone looking for the latest piece of proof that liberals and conservatives play by a different set of rules, with liberals setting a higher bar for personal responsibility, look no further than the back-and-forth taking place online over a dubious report from a liberal website ten days ago ...What's worth noting though, is the fact that, concerned about potential damage being done to the larger, liberal blogosphere, online progressive have also stepped forward and pressed Truthout.org for answers. Not content to ignore the possible mishap just because it appealed to a deep-seated Democratic contempt for Rove, key liberal voices online have demanded a full account of the report. (Truthout.org, btw, stands by its account, that Rove has officially been indicted but that the charges just haven't been made public.)
That kind of grappling and soul-searching has been regularly AWOL among key, high-profile, right-wing bloggers such as Michelle Malkin and those at Power Line, who have repeatedly jumped the misinformation tracks only to be met with silence from their online political peers. (When not being met by cheers.) The fact that liberal bloggers take a more responsible approach may not be news to most players online, but it's important that the mainstream media understand the difference between the two groups and stop pretending the activists play by the same rules of fairness. (The Wall Street Journal's. D.C. bureau was quick to write-up the Truthout.org story as a cautionary tale about liberal blogs, but the paper's news department has turned a blind eye to several recent instances of conservative blogs actively peddling misinformation.)
Need proof that wingers online regularly treat facts like fiction, and sometimes for weeks at a time? Just think Terri Schiavo talking points memo.
See Here
The perfesser's postings after the heckling by reactionary N. Ill. graduates in 2003 of the commencement address by Chris Hedges perfectly fits Glenn Greenwald's analysis-- anti-war speech that ``offends'' provokes ``honest'' response:
ReplyDeleteperfesser: ``More crushing of dissent in Ashcroft's America, I suppose. Except that I imagine that Hedges was paid a lot to give that speech. He misjudged the audience dreadfully, offended them terribly, and reaped an honest audience reaction.
There are two possibilities: (1) He had no idea the audience would object, which suggests a tin ear that calls his journalistic abilities into question; or (2) he knew they'd hate the speech and didn't care, which makes him, well, a jerk.''
Should a political party take advice from the opposition?
ReplyDeleteExcept in rare circumstances, the answers are no, no, no and no. I sometimes worry our Democratic leaders are confused about these questions.
Whatever the pukes warn you against doing, do it harder. Whatever the pukes suggest you do, drop it and run from it like a puke running from a naked 12 year old boy in his bedroom.
drbb:
ReplyDeleteAs usual, you miss the critical distinction that any rational reader of the WSJ instantly grasps: the one obtaining between "our" war heroes and their war heroes.
McCain is one of "ours"; Murtha, Kerry and Cleland are theirs. It is only the sneering at "our" heroes that is objectionable. Everyone understands that.
Corrections:
"'Commander Codpiece' Dubya, Rummy, Cheney, Hastert, Gingrich, and 'Ass-boil' Limbaugh (not to mention the fine folks of the 101st Fighting Keyboarders, like InstaHack, Hindrocket, and Starfleet Commander Ed) are our heroes ... oh, yeah, and maybe Powell too if he doan get too uppity, and McCain maybe, as long as he kisses our butt and doesn't cause too much -- you know -- 'trouble'..."
Cheers,
Apparently no one at Instapulpit ever heard Luara Ingram savage McCain on her radio program.
ReplyDeleteIn between all the bashing of those who deserve to be bashed such as Instapundit, is there any room for some praise for those whose positions are praiseworthy and who speak out to defend the Consitution?
ReplyDeleteWhen Sen. Feingold was worthy of praise which he was, a million words of praise came rushing forth.
Where are the words of praise from the "angry left" for someone on the other side who also takes a principled position?
Why so quiet "angry left" and "angry right"? I don't see much praise coming from either side for anyone who deserves to be praised unless it is "one of their own".
PATRIOT Act Should Ride Into the Sunset
When Congress passed the PATRIOT Act in the emotional aftermath of the 9/11 terrorist attacks, a sunset provision was inserted in the bill that causes certain sections to expire at the end of 2005. But this begs the question: If these provisions are critical tools in the fight against terrorism, why revoke them after five years? Conversely, if these provisions violate civil liberties, why is it acceptable to suspend the Constitution for any amount of time?
Congress is scheduled to review those sections this year, but there is little chance any portion of the Act will be allowed to lapse. If anything, many members of Congress are eager to expand federal police powers.
Supporters of the PATRIOT Act argue that its provisions have not been abused since its passage in 2001. In essence, Justice Department officials are claiming, "Trust us – we're the government and we say the PATRIOT Act does not threaten civil liberties."
But this argument misses the point. Government assurances simply are not good enough in a free society. The overwhelming burden always must be placed on government to justify any new encroachment on our liberty. Now that the emotions of 9/11 have cooled, the American people are less willing to blindly accept terrorism as an excuse for expanding federal surveillance powers.
Many of the most constitutionally offensive measures in the Act are not limited to terrorist offenses, but apply to any criminal activity. In fact, some of the new police powers could be applied even to those engaging in peaceful protest against government policies. The bill as written defines terrorism as acts intended "to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion." Under this broad definition, a scuffle at an otherwise peaceful pro-life demonstration might subject attendees to a federal investigation. We have seen abuses of law enforcement authority in the past to harass individuals or organizations with unpopular political views. Congress has given future administrations a tool to investigate pro-life or gun rights organizations on the grounds that fringe members of such groups advocate violence.
The PATRIOT Act waters down the Fourth Amendment by expanding the federal government's ability to use wiretaps without judicial oversight. The requirement of a search warrant and probable cause strikes a balance between effective law enforcement and civil liberties. Any attempt to dilute the warrant requirement threatens innocent citizens with a loss of their liberty. This is particularly true of provisions that allow for issuance of nationwide search warrants that are not specific to any given location, nor subject to any local judicial oversight.
The Act makes it far easier for the government to monitor your Internet usage by adopting a lower standard than probable cause for intercepting e-mails and Internet communications. I wonder how my congressional colleagues would feel if all of their e-mail headings and the names of the Web sites they visited were available to law enforcement upon a showing of mere "relevance."
It's easy for elected officials in Washington to tell the American people that government will do whatever it takes to defeat terrorism. Such assurances inevitably are followed by proposals either to restrict the constitutional liberties of the American people or spend vast sums from the federal treasury. We must understand that politicians and bureaucrats always seek to expand their power, without regard to the long-term consequences. If you believe in smaller government, ask yourself one simple question: Does the PATRIOT Act increase or decrease the power of the federal government over your life? The answer is obvious to those who understand that freedom cannot be exchanged for security.
So who is the "hero" of the moment? Sen. Feingold who seems to have shifted most of his emphasis to getting military candidates elected to government or Ron Paul who continues to speak out about the issues which are the most important issues of the day?
I never even see this Congressman's name mentioned in the progressive blogosphere unless some "anon" snake steps forth to attack him.
In any case, based upon what I have read so far I would vote for Ron Paul for President before I would vote for any other incumbant Senator or Representative.
Big Government=Big Brother.
Anyone disagree with that?
The intolerance of the left for free speech and free thought is nothing new. Those who preach tolerance and diversity on the left don't mean tolerance and diversity for everyone, just for people who agree with them or disagree with them by being even bigger socialists, commies, greedy haters of the successful.
ReplyDeleteThe incivility and rudeness of the left, as well as their quickness to resort to violence, union goons, mass riots, etc. are also well known throughtout history.
Violence is the reaction of a man/woman who is out of ideas or lacks the intellect and understanding to do anything else. It is no wonder at all that the left in this country and elsewhere is almost always the first to resort to violence, riots, and intolerant incivility when it comes to any person who does not swear allegience with their words to the left's agenda.
Says the "Dog"
Shameless Conservative Hypocrites and the media that suck up to them: An investigative report.
ReplyDeleteHa! Ha! The contradictions are becoming too evident to make effective propaganda anymore.
We see the Republican hacks and liars for what they are.
Anonymous proves my point and disproves Glens.
ReplyDeleteLOL,
Says the "Dog"
You won't need a gun for The Dog. A small glass of water should do it.
ReplyDeleteIn any case, based upon what I have read so far I would vote for Ron Paul for President before I would vote for any other incumbant Senator or Representative.
ReplyDeleteThe last time I mentioned his name here, someone piped in and called him a racist and xenophobe. His writing is frquently featured at LewRockwell.com, a site that hosts not only some racist and xenophobic types (Fred Reed, Pat Buchannan) but also some interesting and principled folks (Anthony Gregory, Karen Kwiatkowski).
I'm in no position to judge his total character but I do know he tends to come down on the proper side re: Civil Liberties and Preemptive War.
"the Dog" said...
ReplyDeleteAnonymous proves my point and disproves Glens.
LOL,
Says the "Dog"
You don't understand the argument. More than a few of us are ready to "put it on the line" (and whatever that entails) to save this country, this democracy, this government, such as it is. You've picked your side. We've picked ours, and you ain't seen nothing yet.
From the Dog at 12:34PM:
ReplyDelete"Violence is the reaction of a man/woman who is out of ideas or lacks the intellect and understanding to do anything else."
Remind me which side of the dial is calling for mass internment of Muslims, nuking Mecca, writes books in favor of both, and generally spews eliminationist bile over the airwaves?
Are you this pathetic by design, or simply indulging in dramatic irony?
Dog,
ReplyDeleteI would drop a sack of shit like you in a heartbeat. I am not shy about saying that. Never have been. And I don't mean with a sucker punch, either.
Dog has never leveled a loaded weapon on another human being. He has never fired a weapon at another human being. He has never taken another human being's life and lived to regret it or not to regret it. The Dog is a yellow pussy.
ReplyDeleteWhat's even more appalling is that neither Instaputz or Gateway Pundit bother to even cite even one word Clay's supposedly offensive speech.
ReplyDeleteWhat, we're supposed to take them at their word?
More here:
http://www.instaputz.blogspot.com
Yesterday, Zack said:
ReplyDeleteWhat’s intentionally and purposefully forgotten by the right is that what they deem “hateful” (being “anti-war”) has now become the position of the majority of Americans – and they are actively trying to marginalize the majority. That’s what this is all about.
Let's not forget that this was the case before the war, too. Not long before the invasion, a plurality of Americans opposed attacking Iraq. The media adopted a posture suggesting that war was inevitable (even as Bush was still mouthing the words to suggest that it wasn't), so therefore America needed to be united, so therefore the anti-war crowd should just get on the bandwagon (even though uniting America could best have been accomplished by having the minority, pro-war crowd join with the larger, anti-war crowd.)
Nothing's changed. Being pro-war is, somehow, more "patriotic" than being anti-war, no matter the circumstances.
here you go bart, does this next day article report the rioters as being paid political operatives?
ReplyDeletehttp://www.opinionjournal.com/columnists/pgigot/?id=65000673
in fact, it refers to the riot, comically, as "semi-spontaneous" even as these stooges launched into an unlikely chant of "three blind mice"
i'm sure you will continue to brazenly lie, but at least this might give you some pause
"The Dog" shows a profound ignorance of history:
ReplyDeleteThe incivility and rudeness of the left, as well as their quickness to resort to violence, union goons, mass riots, etc. are also well known throughtout history.
Yeah, like this and this and this and this and this.
I'd say if you want to tally up the women and children murdered, the bosses are leading 100 to zip or more over the unions....
Cheers,
When I think about the massive wiretapping of American citizens, Secret Prisons, torture of prisoners, all this booing and heckling seems pretty tame.
ReplyDeleteWith the efforts by the Right to create a "permanent majority" through rules changes, redistricting and outright crooked elections via Diebold voting machines, I become concerned that it might be too late to save this country using op-ed pieces, blogs, or journalism, no matter how many patriotic whistleblowers come forward.
It might even be too late for elections. We may have entered the zone where only massive civil demonstration, disobedience, or god-forbid, outright revolt is the only thing that can bring back the principles upon which this country was founded.
The Bush Administration has fired the first shot in it's effort to seize absolute power by stating it's unwillingness to accept any oversight by Congress or the Courts.
This is why it's so important that we make sure the rank-and-file military knows how much we progressive Americans support them. A day will come, and sooner rather than later, when they will be ordered to fire on their fellow citizens, and they will have to decide between orders from a dictatorial leadership and their love of country and fellow citizens.
Yes, it's gotten that bad.
You forgot to add to the list of War Heroes sneered at by BushCo when it suited their purposes: John McCain
ReplyDeleteWhat do you suppose happens when you accept one of these 101st Keyboard Kommando's challenges? He cuts and runs. More like scuttles away... Very brave, these bad boys... No wonder righteous indignation and anger scares them.
ReplyDeleteWilliam Tecumseh Sherman said...
ReplyDeleteYou people of the South don't know what you are doing. This country will be drenched in blood, and God only knows how it will end. It is all folly, madness, a crime against civilization! You people speak so lightly of war; you don't know what you're talking about. War is a terrible thing!
You mistake, too, the people of the North. They are a peaceable people but an earnest people, and they will fight, too. They are not going to let this country be destroyed without a mighty effort to save it ...
Some people just need continuing education.
Huhm, no one seemed to care when it was "Angry White Males" who took back congress in 1994. And what were they angry about -- affirmative action, welfare programs, and black UN helicopters spotted in the midwest.
ReplyDeleteWhy di the MSM treat them like they were the "good kind of angry," but the left is the "bad kind of angry." How low can Bush's poll numbers go when people finally realize that yes, Americans ARE angry about lied into war?
Nice comment, Hesiod. You had to put the people Glen linked in their place, but it required a bath with brain bleach afterwards.
ReplyDeleteWhat is of interest is that St.Louis is a Union town and the college itself hosts many model UN functions.
A small partisan element tried to foist its rancour on top of critics of the unpopular war.
You'll find out this one sided story was part of the reich wing echo chamber in all likelihood.
If not, then our future ambassadors, hearts and minds winners, are mealey mouthed repuke hacks on their best day.
-Mr.Murder
bart said:
ReplyDeleteAs you well know, the Constitution trumps any and all statutes.
bart, is the FISA law un-Constitutional? You implied it in a previous post, and you declined to answer when I asked for a clear answer.
Can you please clarify? Is the FISA law, in your opinion, un-Constitutional?
"This country is "F-ed" if we do not learn our lesson with regards to electing Conservatives to office. That is the lesson we should learn. Electing Cons = destroying America. Plain enough for you?"
ReplyDeleteYeah, plainly stupid.
Left. Right. Left. Right. Left. Right. Left.
ReplyDeleteLets all substitute labels for thinking now. Sure, we bitch about it when THEY do it, but thats only because THEY are wrong and WE are right.
Hypocricy is bitching about Bush while acting just like him.
Why do any of y'all bother to reply to that Bart guy?
ReplyDeleteanyhow
Good post, Glen. Hope to get the chance to meet you at YearlyKos.
ANON: The problem is that they heckled the very idea of finding common ground and comprimise with those with whom they disagree.
ReplyDeleteYou are mistaken. The wingnuts have to deny the very concept of objective truth and of consensual reality to defend and promote their lies. Thus, we have the lies from Fats Limbaugh, Sean Hannity and all the rest of the Noise Machine.
BART -
ReplyDeleteStaying is not the answer
By John Murtha
Posted 11/20/2005 9:06 PM Updated 11/20/2005 9:46 PM
http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/editorials/2005-11-20-oppose_x.htm
Staying the course in Iraq is not an option or a policy. I believe we must begin discussions for an immediate re-deployment of U.S. forces from Iraq. I believe it can be accomplished in as little as six months, but it must be consistent with the safety of U.S. troops.
Sexion at 5:06PM:
ReplyDelete"The Left is angry for one reason: they don't have power. That's it. The Right has the power, they don't need to be angry. Capisce?"
The destruction of civil liberties, the dismantling of the social safety net, incompetence at every level of policymaking, wars that don't serve the national interest nor improve our national security, the looting of the national treasury, deficits that risk becoming structural rather than budgetary...
Need I go on. Were it a Democrat in office pursuing such policies, I'd wager you would be foaming at the mouth.
"Anyone who reads liberal and conservative blogs can't come away with any other impression than that the left is rabidly angry at just about everything, while the right, if they do get angry, are angry at the left getting angry."
Insert the word 'don't' between 'who' and 'reads', and this sentence would actually be accurate. As it is, you display only your own ignorance (again).
"It has little to do with politics, but more to do with circumstance."
That's the best you can do, isn't it? How sad.
Great post. I predict that Instapundit is about to develop a sudden interest in blogging coffeemakers and/or digital cameras. He always turns to such things when cornered.
ReplyDeleteSuccint, and eloquently stated. Well done.
ReplyDeleteI would however argue, that the phenomenon of the "Angry Left" is no different than the "Angry Right," previously referred to as the "Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy." I think that what the "Angry Left" moniker is really referring to is a "Reactive Left." In other words, until the Left becomes to "Proactive Left," the sort of hypocrisy so clearly identified here will continue to strike a cord with moderate voters.
From chris sandvick at 7:02PM:
ReplyDelete"You want to win elections? Start by letting it be known that calls to violence by leftist traitors will not be tolerated."
Am I the only one at a loss as to what friend sandvick is talking about?
Chris Sandvick,
ReplyDeleteWhatever case Glen Greenwald may think he made with his post has pretty thoroughly been trounced by his own fans in the comments here.
I particularly liked the one from Anonymous who was bragging about how he would drop somebody he disagrees with a single punch. And he went on to specify that he was no ordinary liberal coward, that it wouldn't be a sucker punch.
Right, this from some pot smoking non-achievment lame brain talking tough and brave but without the courage to put his real name and address in the post.
LMAO,
Says the "Dog"
From the dog at 9:20PM:
ReplyDelete"Right, this from some pot smoking non-achievment lame brain talking tough and brave but without the courage to put his real name and address in the post."
Thanks for the self-description, but what does this have to do with the comment from annoymous?
"You are mistaken. The wingnuts have to deny the very concept of objective truth and of consensual reality to defend and promote their lies. "
ReplyDeleteThere are two major kinds of Bush opponents.
1) Those, like myself, who are primarily disgusted with his casual disdain for the rule of law.
-and -
2) those who are primarily disgusted with the ends for which he has violated the law.
I dont think the people in 2 are any better than Bush - they can be counted on to deny objective truth, use emotional appeals to intiidate dissent, and violate the law and the rights of citizens just as soon as they, like Bush, decide that it will serve a greater cause. Furthermore, they are more dangerous than ever before because they will be able to (and most certainly WILL) cite Bush's actions as precedent when they decide to harness state power for the pursuit of their own crusade.
... some pot smoking non-achievment lame brain talking tough and brave but without the courage to put his real name and address in the post.
ReplyDeleteLMAO,
Says the "Dog"
Jon Stewart has it easy nowadays. But occasionally we're similarly gifted here: Some comedy just writes itself, and no rejoinder is needed or even appropriate.
Cheers,
I gotta go with what some other comments point out: the Republican party was very quick to lambast Senator McCain's war hero status during the 2000 Presidential election. It's such an odd thing--Senator Kerry goes to Vietnam and returns with three Purple Hearts. Whether or not they are deserved is rather irrelevant now. But this criticism was driven by people supporting President Bush's war record, which was virtually non-existant! What the hell is going on? And why are people so willing to accept it?
ReplyDeleteDiFi from DKosopedia
ReplyDeletePartially due to the killings of Moscone and Milk, Feinstein remains an ardent supporter of gun control. Even though many believe that the assault weapons ban she helped push through Congress and the White House played a major factor in the Republicans 1994 takeover of Congress, she continues to press for the ban to be renewed this year.
Feinstein is a strong proponent of gun control, yet is known to have carried concealed handguns herself with a normally nearly impossible to obtain California carry permit - few people, other than politicians and celebrities, are able to obtain California CCW permits. At one time, she was the only person in San Francisco to possess a concealed carry permit.
... some pot smoking non-achievment lame brain talking tough and brave but without the courage to put his real name and address in the post.
ReplyDeleteLMAO,
Says the "Dog"
His parents must have hated him as much as we do. Naming your boy Sue is one thing, but "The Dog"?
His parents must have hated him as much as we do. Naming your boy Sue is one thing, but "The Dog"?
ReplyDeleteYou'd be angry, too if your parents chained you up out by the "privy" and made you eat out of a bowl on the ground.
The "anger" of the "Left" is going to be a major campaign theme for Republicans. Anyone wanting to do well against them is going to have to figure out how to deflect or at least neutralize sheeples' fear. I'm not convinced that reason can do the job, and no, I don't have alternatives to suggest or I'd go into the campaign strategy business.
ReplyDeletePlease, don't deny your anger. I'm not an American, dear neighbours to the south, but I encourage you to own your anger. You have every right to be angry. Know it and transform it into actions that speak your truth to the powers that be. And don't let the Democratic Party off the hook, either. We tend to do that in Canada and it hasn't worked very well. I mean, look at what we have now: a Bush-in-training!
Excellent post, btw.